For some reason there is a huge aversion to male nudity in a lot of countries. I won't single out the US for this because I have seen it elsewhere. The Greeks and Romans didn't seem to have this problem, yet if you go to the main train station in DC (Can't remember the name) they have a gallery of roman/greek style statues around the main lobby. A sign thoughfully points out that shields were added to the statues in the 20th century in order to hide the male genetalia.
In a similar vein, I was in a photography class where we were shooting nudes. One time we had a male model, and I was laughing at my class mates who had spent all this time happily shooting women, but the site of one nude guy got them all confused, and they were all trying to arrange the angle so hi groin wouldn't be in the shot. Yet to me one of the best shots was a full frontal of the guy.
I have been thinking (now and in the past) that this is all part of the indoctrination that male nudity equates with homosexuallity, and that homesexuality equates with paedophilia, hence male nudity is bad. Which is a ridiculous and totally line of reasoning. But the media has got us all conditioned as to how we should react.
This is especially seen in the comparison that woman are allowed to appreciate how other women look, but if guys appreciate how guys look.. well they're gay. (Let alone that lesbianism is more socially acceptable that homosexuality)
I could rant on about this for a while, but basically I agree with you. Men appear to be dominant in a lot of areas, but everywhere else they are supressed/repressed as much or even more than women. (Check out funding differences between breast cancer and prostrate cancer) But in the areas that men are repressed, society has told us not to look in that direction, so the repression is deemed acceptable.
The same thing happened to Burt Ward who played Robin in the Batman and Robin TV series. He was also apparently hung like a horse, and that pissed Adam West off a little bit because he *wanted* to be hung like a horse.
See Burt Ward's biography "My Life in Tights" for details. Its amazing what went on behind the scenes of that show. The stunts gone wrong, the sex the machinations, the jealousy, the romance. Its a hilarious and interesting read for anyone who liked that show.
Recently it was reported in the local papers (Richmond, Va) that some Va high school district had banned shaking hands between teams after a match. It seems that there was all this spitting and bad mouthing and other animosity going on between teams.
So rather than force the good behaviour, they just let the bad behaviour go on reducing the interatcion.
Have you seen some of the ones coming from the Nordic countries????
I remember seeing one set in a male/female segregated sauna/steam room. Except some guy found a peep hole to the womens side. (Cue gratuitous nudity). But the matron on that side saw his eye through the hole. The next thing you know, all the guys are lined up parade style and the matron is walking up the line looking down at their groins (which are just out of camera view). Finally she gets to the culprit . He is standing there with a grin on his face, and protuding upwards at an angle from his groin is a newspaper that is obviously covering his huge erection.
The ad was for the newspaper. The tag line was - "For the paper that covers everything"
Love to see that at the Superbowl:-)
BTW Speaking of the Superbowl and protecting the kiddies from things like Janets tit, why was nothing said about all those viagra (or cialis) advs that were on ALL the time. Surely explaining to a kid as to why a 4 hour erection needs medical attention is far worse that a fraction of a second of nudity.
(I appologise in advance for twisting your words around.. but I couldn't resist:-)
"How can one get so emotionally attached to a sports team that they will get in mob fights with fans of another team? Granted it's usually a minority that partake in hooliganism, but it seems to happen fairly often (especially in Latin American countries); it almost never happens here in the states."
Substitute: ideology for sports team fans for citizens team for country hooliganism for war
And you get:
"How can one get so emotionally attached to an ideology that they will get in mob fights with citizens of another country? Granted it's usually a minority that partake in war, but it seems to happen fairly often (especially in Latin American countries); it almost never happens here in the states. ":D
One of my fav sayings (which also translates well into a coding practice when people want multiple copies of the same data in separate locations)
"A man with one watch always knows what time it is, but a man with two watches never knows."
Unless of course one of the watches is a nixie watch and that the batteries have run out after 2 days usage, or the cathodes have busted from all that shaking.
> Project 1: Gather up all the cast-off caps, surface mount parts, bits of stripped wire, and dust > bunnies on the floor. Place them into a cylindrical faraday cage, lined with an insulative > material
Translation - Clean up the trash lying around your workplace.
> Project 2: Perform high-energy tests of the superstring theory in the ovens. In order to assure > that you have the required symmetries, you're going to have to use a bit of that easy-off and > clean the gunk off the inside of the ovens first.
Translation - Clean the kitchen and then cook dinner for everybody at the office. (and then clean the kitchen again)
> Project 3: Test for new low-temperature superconductors.
Translation - Clean out the office fridge.
> Project 4: Perform a detailed analysis of the wave reflection properties of aluminum vs. tin > foil. To ensure an accurate reading, recalibrating the electron microscope is going to be > necessary. It's a 10-hour job, so make sure you start the minute you get off of work.
Translation - Stay out of the way of all the people who actually work at your new place of employment.
Yep, I concur that these are worthwhile projects to do at work.
Ian Callens, Icomm Technologies, explains: "This is a very difficult issue to manage and a real threat to business continuity and data security. If someone is seen in the workplace using an iPod it's more than likely that it's for the wrong reasons - either podslurping or downloading music without permission. This is relatively easier to police.
So if you use an iPod at work you are assumed to be a criminal regardless of what you are doing with it? Like for instance.. um let me think.. ah.. thats it.. LISTENING TO LEGALLY PURCHASED MUSIC??!?!?!?!?!
That sort of attitude really pisses me off.
I am all for security at work, but there comes a point where you have to trust your employees with some things.
My Dell laptop seemed full of crud. I know that I had installed quite a few systems just to test them over the first year that I had the laptop. And now it was showing mysterious symptoms - Programs would seem to just hang when I started them. The responsiveness seemed down.
So I wiped the hardrive and re-installed XP plus all the packages that I knew I needed. After I got it all running again, it seemed as repsonsive as when I first got it.
But that was 10 months ago. Now it is back to the same feeling of molasses at times with the inexplicable behaviour. So obviously I have installed something that has slowed things down. But what? There is no way to tell what it is. So it looks like I am headed for the yearly rebuild again.
[Note 1 that in all of this, I have been using virus protection, adware protection, software firewalls, and up-todate patches]
[Note 2 To all you people who will say wipe XP and put *nix on. I can't as I have custom software development tools that *only* run on windows. And no, it is not possible to rewrite them from scratch - and anybody who thinks so hasn't been out in the world of PLC programming and heavy industries]
Don't you know yet that 'merkins like Verb based names for things:
Like Chuck and Ralph.
But then again they have funny names for everything. God forbid that I would "root" for my team.
And if I am really going to rip into their funny naming practices. Whats this thing with uisng your middle name as your first one? (Like W.Silly Person) Wasn't the name your momma gave you good enough for you???
Unfortunately I see this all the time as I live here now:-(
I agree that you can't beat a decent lab for print price and quality. I am sure I saw something recently on/. that suggested that the price per print you could get from a typical lab was such that there was no economic advantage of printing at home.
My problem is the lab that I am now about to stop using can't following fscking instructions, or even bill me correctly for the work I have had done for me. Morons.
Of course real photos are made with precious metals in dark rooms with lots of environmentally unfriendly chemicals;-)
So let me ask you a question then.. suppose I am out driving, and there is a car in the fast lane who doesn't get out of my way. These dumbasses really piss me off. What they are doing is ileagal, they need to be delt with. So I nudge them, and they lose control and crash. And they become a quadraplegic vegitable because of it.
And then it turns out that the driver was your mother or girlfriend or wife.
Do you still support those actions?
I agree that people who drive slowly in the fast lane *are* dumbasses. But it is up to the police to inform them of that. The rest of us just have to stay within the law and DEAL WITH IT.
Yes of course it appears as arbitrary. But unfortunately it is not really.
What is arbitrary is is the setting up of fixed speed limits that have nothing to do with road conditions. On a perfectly clear day with no traffic it can be very safe to drive above the speed limit. On a crappy day with no visibility, black ice and falling snow it could be deadly dangerous to drive at any speed at all. Thus the setting of the speed limit appears arbitrary.
However, driving safely at any speed implies several things:
1) You are driving within the physical capabilities of your car, your tires, and the road. (is the car well maintained, is the road surface good, and the tires well maintained?)
2) You are driving within our own physical capabilities (are you perfectly fine or tired, drunk or drugged?)
3) You are driving within the expectations of the people around you (are you keeping a safe distance, or tailgating at 2 feet at 100mph?) [1]
4) You are driving such that you can respond to any future conditions (yes, 100mph is safe now on this country road, but will it be in a few short moments when you cross that blind hill and come across the heard of cows in the middle of the road?)
But the one thing about all of this is the big question of:
"Can the driver correctly ascertain fair and valid answers to these issues, and drive accordingly in a safe manner?"
In some percentage of the population I would answer yes to this [2]. But it is the remainder of the population who cannot realistically and honestly answer these questions that cause the avoidable problems.
Thus we have laws designed to hopefully protect the majority from the minority of stupid idiots who don't have enough sense not to endanger themeslves or other people by limiting their actions. For those of us who are responsible it all seems unreasonable, but on the other hand I prefer the current system to anarchy.
[1] Back a few years there was a Nascar driver caught in Pa, when at 60mph (or so) on a freeway he "nudged" a car in the fast lane that wouldn't get out of his way. I am sure he was within his driving limits, but I pity the poor person who he nudged.
[2] In general the only person on the road who drives safely is me, all the rest of you are accidents waiting to happen.
And then I get dizzy after about 2 seconds, and have to shut my eyes and hold my head, and wait for the pain to go away. The end result is that in all practiality.. I *still* can't see 3-d (not for long any way)
Fat lot of good its going to me.. I am blind in one eye, so I *can't* see in 3-D.. No matter how good the fricking cameras are.. I'll still see in 2-D. Waste of money.. blah.. blah.. blah...
(/grumble, whinge, complain)
(And for the humour impaired.. yes that was not to be taken seriously.. even though I *am* blind in one eye)
(And for the spelling impaired.. American English is *not* my native tongue)
This is something that I hace always thought curious about Linux in general - the concept that the device driver is part of the Kernel, so that to support a new device, it has to be compiled in. And as everything under the sun has to be supported at any one time, that implies that the kernel gets bigger and bigger and bigger as time goes on. So at what point do you stop growing the kernel? Or can you even do it?
You can argue, well you don't have to compile it in in the first place, but that brings on the question of how many linux users in the mainstream are capable of correctly configuring and compiling the kernel to suit their hardware? And what does that do to a plug and play concept?
Years ago I was using Microwares OS-9 (no not the Mac OS 9). It had a modular device drive model where you could load and unload drives on the fly, and similar devices were only differentiated by having a separate config file that pointed to a different hardware address. As such it was (still is?) a sweet system to use. If I wanted a new disk drive, I would plug the hardware in, and edit a the equivlent of a device drive ini file to say that it existed. Then I could load that drive as I needed. No change to the operating system at all. If the device required a new type of device manager (ie a fundementally different hardware model than what was already configured into the system), that manager could also be loaded on the fly as required. Of course you could then burn a system with all your new requirements, so they were available at boot. (and yes I am aware that the all of this does require knowledge of the intrenals a la Linux, but it is the process I am trying to highlight).
To me the concept of the "all-in-one-everything-including-the-kitchen-sink" Linux model stems from the days when it was a small system, and that was a reasonable thing to do. But to me it doesn't seem like a sound design principle that allows for scaling into a bigger system. Trust me, I am not knocking Linus or Linux, but the overall Linux system might be hampered by some decisions that were unforseen when Linus was banging away on his keyboard all those years ago.
I'm sorry, But you seem to underestimate the stupidity of people who create systems on the internet. The place is littered with tombstones marking a huge number of "WTF?? They did what?!?!?!??" type moments. So I wouldn't discount the idea that someone would put private information on a windows title bar. (However, this doesn't support TFA which seems to be a bit FUD related.)
One of my favourite websites is the RISKS list which catalogues general computer stupidity. You should check up on it sometimes, some of the reported situations are mind numbing in their stupidity.
Are you serious?? A Troll?? The trouble is that I know people who say things like that seriously. And in the good ol' USA there is a large number of them (not picking on them delibrately - but I keep being reminded that/. is purely an American website;-) You can never tell when it comes to religeon if someone is being Trollish.
Slashdot Mirror
For some reason there is a huge aversion to male nudity in a lot of countries. I won't single out the US for this because I have seen it elsewhere. The Greeks and Romans didn't seem to have this problem, yet if you go to the main train station in DC (Can't remember the name) they have a gallery of roman/greek style statues around the main lobby. A sign thoughfully points out that shields were added to the statues in the 20th century in order to hide the male genetalia.
.. well they're gay. (Let alone that lesbianism is more socially acceptable that homosexuality)
In a similar vein, I was in a photography class where we were shooting nudes. One time we had a male model, and I was laughing at my class mates who had spent all this time happily shooting women, but the site of one nude guy got them all confused, and they were all trying to arrange the angle so hi groin wouldn't be in the shot. Yet to me one of the best shots was a full frontal of the guy.
I have been thinking (now and in the past) that this is all part of the indoctrination that male nudity equates with homosexuallity, and that homesexuality equates with paedophilia, hence male nudity is bad. Which is a ridiculous and totally line of reasoning. But the media has got us all conditioned as to how we should react.
This is especially seen in the comparison that woman are allowed to appreciate how other women look, but if guys appreciate how guys look
I could rant on about this for a while, but basically I agree with you. Men appear to be dominant in a lot of areas, but everywhere else they are supressed/repressed as much or even more than women. (Check out funding differences between breast cancer and prostrate cancer) But in the areas that men are repressed, society has told us not to look in that direction, so the repression is deemed acceptable.
The same thing happened to Burt Ward who played Robin in the Batman and Robin TV series. He was also apparently hung like a horse, and that pissed Adam West off a little bit because he *wanted* to be hung like a horse.
See Burt Ward's biography "My Life in Tights" for details. Its amazing what went on behind the scenes of that show. The stunts gone wrong, the sex the machinations, the jealousy, the romance. Its a hilarious and interesting read for anyone who liked that show.
Recently it was reported in the local papers (Richmond, Va) that some Va high school district had banned shaking hands between teams after a match. It seems that there was all this spitting and bad mouthing and other animosity going on between teams.
So rather than force the good behaviour, they just let the bad behaviour go on reducing the interatcion.
Have you seen some of the ones coming from the Nordic countries????
:-)
I remember seeing one set in a male/female segregated sauna/steam room. Except some guy found a peep hole to the womens side. (Cue gratuitous nudity). But the matron on that side saw his eye through the hole. The next thing you know, all the guys are lined up parade style and the matron is walking up the line looking down at their groins (which are just out of camera view). Finally she gets to the culprit . He is standing there with a grin on his face, and protuding upwards at an angle from his groin is a newspaper that is obviously covering his huge erection.
The ad was for the newspaper. The tag line was - "For the paper that covers everything"
Love to see that at the Superbowl
BTW Speaking of the Superbowl and protecting the kiddies from things like Janets tit, why was nothing said about all those viagra (or cialis) advs that were on ALL the time. Surely explaining to a kid as to why a 4 hour erection needs medical attention is far worse that a fraction of a second of nudity.
(I appologise in advance for twisting your words around .. but I couldn't resist :-)
:D
"How can one get so emotionally attached to a sports team that they will get in mob fights with fans of another team? Granted it's usually a minority that partake in hooliganism, but it seems to happen fairly often (especially in Latin American countries); it almost never happens here in the states."
Substitute:
ideology for sports team
fans for citizens
team for country
hooliganism for war
And you get:
"How can one get so emotionally attached to an ideology that they will get in mob fights with citizens of another country? Granted it's usually a minority that partake in war, but it seems to happen fairly often (especially in Latin American countries); it almost never happens here in the states. "
One of my fav sayings (which also translates well into a coding practice when people want multiple copies of the same data in separate locations)
"A man with one watch always knows what time it is, but a man with two watches never knows."
Unless of course one of the watches is a nixie watch and that the batteries have run out after 2 days usage, or the cathodes have busted from all that shaking.
Dear Anonymous Coward,
Whats even more amazing is that you got the job in the first place.
> Project 1: Gather up all the cast-off caps, surface mount parts, bits of stripped wire, and dust
> bunnies on the floor. Place them into a cylindrical faraday cage, lined with an insulative
> material
Translation - Clean up the trash lying around your workplace.
> Project 2: Perform high-energy tests of the superstring theory in the ovens. In order to assure
> that you have the required symmetries, you're going to have to use a bit of that easy-off and
> clean the gunk off the inside of the ovens first.
Translation - Clean the kitchen and then cook dinner for everybody at the office. (and then clean the kitchen again)
> Project 3: Test for new low-temperature superconductors.
Translation - Clean out the office fridge.
> Project 4: Perform a detailed analysis of the wave reflection properties of aluminum vs. tin
> foil. To ensure an accurate reading, recalibrating the electron microscope is going to be
> necessary. It's a 10-hour job, so make sure you start the minute you get off of work.
Translation - Stay out of the way of all the people who actually work at your new place of employment.
Yep, I concur that these are worthwhile projects to do at work.
From TFA (My emphasis)
.. um let me think .. ah .. thats it .. LISTENING TO LEGALLY PURCHASED MUSIC??!?!?!?!?!
Ian Callens, Icomm Technologies, explains: "This is a very difficult issue to manage and a real threat to business continuity and data security. If someone is seen in the workplace using an iPod it's more than likely that it's for the wrong reasons - either podslurping or downloading music without permission. This is relatively easier to police.
So if you use an iPod at work you are assumed to be a criminal regardless of what you are doing with it? Like for instance
That sort of attitude really pisses me off.
I am all for security at work, but there comes a point where you have to trust your employees with some things.
My Dell laptop seemed full of crud. I know that I had installed quite a few systems just to test them over the first year that I had the laptop. And now it was showing mysterious symptoms - Programs would seem to just hang when I started them. The responsiveness seemed down.
So I wiped the hardrive and re-installed XP plus all the packages that I knew I needed. After I got it all running again, it seemed as repsonsive as when I first got it.
But that was 10 months ago. Now it is back to the same feeling of molasses at times with the inexplicable behaviour. So obviously I have installed something that has slowed things down. But what? There is no way to tell what it is. So it looks like I am headed for the yearly rebuild again.
[Note 1 that in all of this, I have been using virus protection, adware protection, software firewalls, and up-todate patches]
[Note 2 To all you people who will say wipe XP and put *nix on. I can't as I have custom software development tools that *only* run on windows. And no, it is not possible to rewrite them from scratch - and anybody who thinks so hasn't been out in the world of PLC programming and heavy industries]
There's an easy fix to this .. shoot, develop and print B&W No colour correction needed ;-)
Don't you know yet that 'merkins like Verb based names for things:
:-(
Like Chuck and Ralph.
But then again they have funny names for everything. God forbid that I would "root" for my team.
And if I am really going to rip into their funny naming practices. Whats this thing with uisng your middle name as your first one? (Like W.Silly Person) Wasn't the name your momma gave you good enough for you???
Unfortunately I see this all the time as I live here now
I agree that you can't beat a decent lab for print price and quality. I am sure I saw something recently on /. that suggested that the price per print you could get from a typical lab was such that there was no economic advantage of printing at home.
;-)
My problem is the lab that I am now about to stop using can't following fscking instructions, or even bill me correctly for the work I have had done for me. Morons.
Of course real photos are made with precious metals in dark rooms with lots of environmentally unfriendly chemicals
Ahh .. so you support vigalantism.
.. suppose I am out driving, and there is a car in the fast lane who doesn't get out of my way. These dumbasses really piss me off. What they are doing is ileagal, they need to be delt with. So I nudge them, and they lose control and crash. And they become a quadraplegic vegitable because of it.
So let me ask you a question then
And then it turns out that the driver was your mother or girlfriend or wife.
Do you still support those actions?
I agree that people who drive slowly in the fast lane *are* dumbasses. But it is up to the police to inform them of that. The rest of us just have to stay within the law and DEAL WITH IT.
Yes of course it appears as arbitrary. But unfortunately it is not really.
What is arbitrary is is the setting up of fixed speed limits that have nothing to do with road conditions. On a perfectly clear day with no traffic it can be very safe to drive above the speed limit. On a crappy day with no visibility, black ice and falling snow it could be deadly dangerous to drive at any speed at all. Thus the setting of the speed limit appears arbitrary.
However, driving safely at any speed implies several things:
1) You are driving within the physical capabilities of your car, your tires, and the road. (is the car well maintained, is the road surface good, and the tires well maintained?)
2) You are driving within our own physical capabilities (are you perfectly fine or tired, drunk or drugged?)
3) You are driving within the expectations of the people around you (are you keeping a safe distance, or tailgating at 2 feet at 100mph?) [1]
4) You are driving such that you can respond to any future conditions (yes, 100mph is safe now on this country road, but will it be in a few short moments when you cross that blind hill and come across the heard of cows in the middle of the road?)
But the one thing about all of this is the big question of:
"Can the driver correctly ascertain fair and valid answers to these issues, and drive accordingly in a safe manner?"
In some percentage of the population I would answer yes to this [2]. But it is the remainder of the population who cannot realistically and honestly answer these questions that cause the avoidable problems.
Thus we have laws designed to hopefully protect the majority from the minority of stupid idiots who don't have enough sense not to endanger themeslves or other people by limiting their actions. For those of us who are responsible it all seems unreasonable, but on the other hand I prefer the current system to anarchy.
[1] Back a few years there was a Nascar driver caught in Pa, when at 60mph (or so) on a freeway he "nudged" a car in the fast lane that wouldn't get out of his way. I am sure he was within his driving limits, but I pity the poor person who he nudged.
[2] In general the only person on the road who drives safely is me, all the rest of you are accidents waiting to happen.
And then I get dizzy after about 2 seconds, and have to shut my eyes and hold my head, and wait for the pain to go away. The end result is that in all practiality .. I *still* can't see 3-d (not for long any way)
*bastard* .. I *still* can't see 3d .. but that link was really interesting. Thanks
(grumble, whinge, complain)
.. I am blind in one eye, so I *can't* see in 3-D .. No matter how good the fricking cameras are .. I'll still see in 2-D. Waste of money .. blah .. blah .. blah ...
.. yes that was not to be taken seriously .. even though I *am* blind in one eye)
.. American English is *not* my native tongue)
Fat lot of good its going to me
(/grumble, whinge, complain)
(And for the humour impaired
(And for the spelling impaired
This is something that I hace always thought curious about Linux in general - the concept that the device driver is part of the Kernel, so that to support a new device, it has to be compiled in. And as everything under the sun has to be supported at any one time, that implies that the kernel gets bigger and bigger and bigger as time goes on. So at what point do you stop growing the kernel? Or can you even do it?
" Linux model stems from the days when it was a small system, and that was a reasonable thing to do. But to me it doesn't seem like a sound design principle that allows for scaling into a bigger system. Trust me, I am not knocking Linus or Linux, but the overall Linux system might be hampered by some decisions that were unforseen when Linus was banging away on his keyboard all those years ago.
You can argue, well you don't have to compile it in in the first place, but that brings on the question of how many linux users in the mainstream are capable of correctly configuring and compiling the kernel to suit their hardware? And what does that do to a plug and play concept?
Years ago I was using Microwares OS-9 (no not the Mac OS 9). It had a modular device drive model where you could load and unload drives on the fly, and similar devices were only differentiated by having a separate config file that pointed to a different hardware address. As such it was (still is?) a sweet system to use. If I wanted a new disk drive, I would plug the hardware in, and edit a the equivlent of a device drive ini file to say that it existed. Then I could load that drive as I needed. No change to the operating system at all. If the device required a new type of device manager (ie a fundementally different hardware model than what was already configured into the system), that manager could also be loaded on the fly as required. Of course you could then burn a system with all your new requirements, so they were available at boot. (and yes I am aware that the all of this does require knowledge of the intrenals a la Linux, but it is the process I am trying to highlight).
To me the concept of the "all-in-one-everything-including-the-kitchen-sink
Care to study up on Iran in the '50s ???
Hang on there ... I'm not about to start no stinkin' editor flame war
In unrelated news, the price of Aluminum today is up by a factor of 100.
.. can't even trust them to correct^h^h^h^h^h^h^hchange the spelling of Anonymous cowards even
Damn those slashdot editors
I'm sorry,
But you seem to underestimate the stupidity of people who create systems on the internet. The place is littered with tombstones marking a huge number of "WTF?? They did what?!?!?!??" type moments. So I wouldn't discount the idea that someone would put private information on a windows title bar. (However, this doesn't support TFA which seems to be a bit FUD related.)
One of my favourite websites is the RISKS list which catalogues general computer stupidity. You should check up on it sometimes, some of the reported situations are mind numbing in their stupidity.
Are you serious?? A Troll?? The trouble is that I know people who say things like that seriously. And in the good ol' USA there is a large number of them (not picking on them delibrately - but I keep being reminded that /. is purely an American website ;-) You can never tell when it comes to religeon if someone is being Trollish.
Yes .. you can .. see my post further down .. there have been arguments throughout the ages as to what should be included in the Bible.