Agreed. Ice has been evil separating children for parents to make angry voters happy. However, what gives me a damn right to tell others what to do on their own computers?
Unless I am paying them I agree with the libertarians on this one. It is also why I am a firm believer in the BSD/MIT style license. If someone wants to use my code great. I shouldn't have to tell others what I want because they use a an #include statement. Most GPL users do not know the difference between copyleft and GPL which is infuriating too as the GPL will spread to other software by a linkage otherwise.
But it is the same principle. While I oppose evil things like most humans who are not psychopaths I do not approve others telling me what to do on my PC and likewise I will honor this in return.
This is where you are wrong. A kid out of highschool has 0 assets and a 100% liability. Who the hell would loan to someone like that?
The problem is you don't get the assets and ability for repayment until later in life. Sometimes much later in life when you start to accumulate. This creates a catch 22 as you can't have the ability to pay without having the ability to pay first and it feeds itself as HR weeds these people out of jobs.
Yes, HR is a problem too. At my employer they are still looking for folks with 3 - 5 years experience and a college degree willing to work for $45,000 for IT work in desktop support/help desk. We can't find jack as 10 years ago we would get 50 applicants.
If we dropped the college requirement we could hire someone... maybe... willing to work for $45,000 a year.
Solution is simple actually. Take away the money. Same with healthcare. When free money is involved greed kicks in and darker folks take advantage of others.
Cap student loan for bachelors degrees at $35,000. That is $35,000 for whole degree! That is not unreasonable compared to what we had in the past. This will make the VPs of Diversity at every University do a headspin and rant on rightwing media about mean evil federal government forcing me to loose my job but tough shit!
A $35,000 limit will help the students immediately. If the University can't afford this then they can reach out to their state governors who stopped funding them 15 years ago during the.com recession. It will mean less football stadiums and promotions for their NCAA teams. Oh cry me a river idiots will be up in arms over this in The South especially. But it will happen.
Second, besides the cap it can be a scale with degrees and or trades that are profitable. Engineering or CS degrees get the full 35K for only 3% interest. Art gets only $20K with 7% interest. If the school can't afford this then they can make the student take out more loans privately making the profitable ones have more enrolled students.
Trade schools only get $20K max but students pay 0 and employers get a tax break for apprenticeships for things like Plumbing, auto repair, etc for 3 years on their first job. This is how Europe works and if any European could reply that would be great as it makes sense as not everyone needs to work in a corporate office.
No one is talking about loan forgiveness. What the article is about the mess they and society are in.
Here are the facts: 1. If you have a HS diploma you will live with your parents until 40 and have a life of poverty. HR won't give you the chance to build your resume outside of your grocery store or McDonalds. It kind of forces you to go to a trade school or a university of you want a non horrible sucky life. Don't bother talking about your friend Jon or yourself if you developed computer skills in the late 1990s. That was abnormal and still a very minority statistic.
2. Cost of living is VERY VERY HIGH. You can't attack the kids for not planning when your first jobs pay $35,000 a year with no experience. How the fuck can you pay rent of $1500 a month with that kind of salary? Let alone pay off the loan and a car payment?
3. Asshole College Admins jerked up the prices. Free money Wahoo! What do you do? You jack up prices to the max. Now you Mr. Smarty Pants who doesn't want to pay $30,000 a semester has to compete with Mike Ditwiit who didn't do the math. If you don't pay he will!
4. Federal Government guaranteeing the loans. Hey if you can't loose either way why not keep screwing people over and raising prices?
5. State Governments no longer funding Universities. This is a HUGE one. During the recession of the early 2000s states no longer subsidize the universities due to the free money from the federal student loan program.
So you can blame the kids for being stupid but if you are older which I assume you are, then you have no right to speak as you never had to pay these outrageous prices the youngers folks pay today. In the 1970s you could work at McDonalds and pay your Harvard Degree no problem. This is not true today.
It is a mess in America and it needs fixing FAST. Solution would be caps on the Federal Student Loan Program and maybe an ability to pay calculation put in. If the degree doesn't have the odds statistically of being able to be paid then the government funds less. This will force states to pay back into the University program and lower costs for students. Also the Federal Government could finance trade schools and community colleges differently. Not everyone is meant for University and less than 1/3 people have degrees. Plumbing for example is much cheaper to learn and pays good if you have plenty of experience. Maybe tax breaks for apprentice programs with plumbers, air craft techs, electricians, etc?
Also Maybe a discount tax for those who completed these programs for 5 years so they can keep more of what they earn as well as $40,000 is shit pay and even programmers starting out make $50,000 only if you don't have years of experience to back you up.
If you go into the device settings -> accounts -> manage -> your account -> will open your hotmail/outlook account and you can unassign WIndows 10 Pro from 1 device to another.
I am seeking a senior architect with 10 years experience of Julia for a position in Antartica. Must have 8 years of experience in Go as well and HTML 6 will be handy as required by the PM of this client. If interested please respond back and I will call you at 5am your time only if meet the requirements.
Why do you think there is a big push for automation and efficiency management? Companies hate hiring people and paying livable wages. One place there used to be an engineer to take petroleum samples at $85,000 a year. Now a guy making $10/hr does it by following a script in Excel and just enters data that he has no idea what it means.
AI will mean no call centers in 10 years either as it will all be menu based with no one to talk to to pester the company owners. It is the way of the future to cut costs and raise the share prices higher
Wireshark is abnormal. Most users do not need to run that and need Office to do stuff in which the Android and IOS versions suck and are more just readers with a few basic functions.
If it is down to 6w which is close to the Atom then I am relieved as it fits my use case perfectly. I have my own i7 4770K OCed to 4.4 ghz to run Visual Studio and Virtual Machines at home:-).
But most things like Workday, ADP, SAP, Concur, and other corporate apps that relied on shitty ancient Java and IE are going wayside for modern HTML 5 versions that run on a browser or have beta Android and IOS versions of their apps too. In that case the device would matter less and security would go up for the business customers.
ARM at this time if you just use Office and Netflix has better power and performance. It's frustrating but I see legacy apps being outplaced or moved to a VDI like Citrix which now has an IOS version to run IE 6 apps. VLC is the only good app I know in the WindowsStore right now besides Netflix and Hulu. I expect that to change if we see more ARM marketshare and Windows 7 finally die off (ha some still use XP).
I guess the use case is MUST have Office and be cheap and portable with lots of power.
Apple's cortex is about as fast an an i5. They are catching up and SnapDragon is not the only ARM design out there.
I used to think WindowsRT was a joke a few years ago but I have been witnessing a change in corporate IT after the last recession finally unfroze IT just 2 to 3 years ago. That is much corporate shitware requiring legacy stuff is being updated to be cloud and web based. Those that are not are being hosted in Citrix sessions.
If Office, Netflix, Hulu, MS teams and the silly opensource version of Teams (forgot the name) are also there in the appstore then an Arm is fine. Chromebooks sell for niche uses and the surface go would be a niche use for someone like a college student who has to have MS Office and consume media and nothing else.
Things were different 6 years ago and the newer laptops today do not have cdrom drives anymore either if you notice which shows consumers are not installing x86 software anymore these days rather than going to a website or downloading something.
If you need a freaking ecosystem then you are a corporate user. The more expensive traditional Surface Pros with their power hungry x86 would be more appropriately.
These Surface Go's are for those who just need office and use web apps. Like the ATOM before it they have superior power management within 12 hour ranges if MS were to pick them. For kids, students, and those who want to type things and watch movies in Netflix from the appstore they are a good compromise.
Also 2012 was 6 years ago when WindowsRT and the first surface came out and much has changed. People do not rely on ancient software as much in the consumer space and HTML 5 and web apps mean many do not buy software in a box with cds anymore. Witness today how many new laptops have cdroms in them? 10 years ago any unit without a cdrom drive would flop.
Intel shouldn't have cancelled the ATOM but if you ABSOLUTELY NEED Ms Office then a surface on ARM may make sense if you don't need anything else. Much of the ancient corporate crud is going to Citrix or HTML 5 if the companies are still around and no longer relying on ancient Java, IE, activeX, or x86 software installs.
I had one of the older low cost surfaces when ATOM was still supported. My coworker laughed and made fun of me. However, his screen was so dark you couldn't read it on his to conserve power and by 3pm his battery was dead. Mine stayed up and still had 50% life at 5pm.
ARM has similiar power advantages if all you do is type things in Office, browse the web, and watch Netflix. I miss ATOM as I am sure this Pentium gold sucks and uses more power.
I remember back in the good old days of yore on slashdot where Perl was the coolest thing ever and would be the all new king of all languages like C++. It died out of nowhere as you would be modded -1 faster than you could say goatse 15 years ago on here if you dared say anything bad about Perl.
This was C++. In my Javacourse they went on about all the great virtues of this not happening. But I know underneath it all the JVM probably does this stuff and a bug can show where you can't fix it.
C# you can subscribe to events and they can use up all your memory. I have not written code in that language so I am can't comment but anyway I am just a desktop support guy for now. Now I need to maybe code something and get past the HR people who won't count it as real experience.
A reference type is basically a pointer to a location in memory. While faster these can lead to memory leaks and occasional bugs when not used properly. A value type is a value copied over which is safer but can have performance impacts.
FYI I am not a developer at all but I remember seeing this in C++ programming books over 10 years ago when I went to school and studied on my own.
So do I win and get the job? Lol
I am astounded and irritated at the same time coders do not know this?! People like me would love to be jr developers to leave my senior desktop and office 365 support role.
They were offering in my salary range AND I already had the experience. Instead they focused on a gap and stuck with a college kid to train who didn't know anything about SharePoint. Idiots
The interesting part is, that our company still has no problem finding new people. We put our finger in the air, and get enough people that we then can qualify in 6-12 month on-the-job training.
Companies just need to forget the fairy tale that a recruiter can get them a 100% qualified person. They need to create those people themselves, if they want them.
You just answered your own question on why your employer has no problem finding applicants.
Take a look at Steve Job's application for Atari in comparison? I know how to code and have been out of the job market for awhile doing Office 365 stuff and desktop support at a senior level. No one will give me a chance because *gasp* you need to be a cookie cutter requirement of check lists.
It's frustrating now to the employer and has been this way for 20 years for the employee who does not have +10 years experience doing the exact same job with the exact same description with 3 managerial references who can attest that you really did do the exact same job as the one listed.
Steve Jobs would be doing help desk work or a janitor at Atari as he had no programming experience and employers don't want to train. They want someone to go at it full swing and stick around for +15 and never job hop or have a history of doing so.
There is no such thing as the ideal job for us. BUT there is no such thing as the ideal candidate either. If employers are willing to train then I will be happy to go to the next level in my career for them.
I have been ghosted by a job offer. I gave a 2 week notice to my previous employer and couldn't even get unemployment as I voluntarily quit! I lost my condo and life savings Fuckers!!
If I was still employed I would have seeked a lawyer. To this day my career is still damaged as I have a gap and took several temp jobs so now HR screens me as a job hopper or unreliable.
It's not going away. HR doesn't have time to recruit and the software basically does the job and scans your LinkedIn to make sure you're honest.
Sorry everyone does this now and the way it works. It's still no reason not to show for a job interview. When you get 200 resumes for each job where you're a 25 chic with no IT experience then how are you going to decide who is lucky enough to be the top 3?
Nothing is unethical to ignore and refuse to do business with someone or an entity. After they did the same to you?
It's kind of like an exgf where things went badly. Best to move forward. As humans we have relationships and are relationship based. Romantic relationships are not that different from professional ones where both parties benefit. Leave when it doesn't benefit you BUT don't be shocked when you get your ass dumped either if you've been an ass or didn't follow thru. Work no different.
I still blame the kids under 30 for a poor work ethic more. I think those that are honorable have been employed for a few years now
I think the clients the recruiters are using still think it's 2012. Your redecilous example of a doctor working for 8/HR is not far from the truth during 2002, 2009 - 2012, and the 1980s for other positions.
My friend in Florida wanted to pay $10/HR for an experienced web developer who also knew Cisco level stuff and could wear 2 hats. He found someone who fit the role and was happy to be in poverty!!... In 2002 after the.com crash. I was offended!
But that's how it roles in an employers market.
HR has strict budgets based on past performance. What worked before saves $$$$. So they are now scratching their heads on why they are getting the bottom of the barrel folks with no work ethic. It's because those who are semi competent get paid more and are already working!
Wages are always last to respond after a recession and employers don't get the message for many months or ever. Good ones do though.
Also I would like to add during 2009 - 2014 it was not uncommon to have a man work 3 job tikes for 80% pay to save money. When he leaves HR will be stubborn as they want to have one man work 3 jobs. Not create 3 jobs. This creates even more scarcity which hurts them more
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Agreed. Ice has been evil separating children for parents to make angry voters happy. However, what gives me a damn right to tell others what to do on their own computers?
Unless I am paying them I agree with the libertarians on this one. It is also why I am a firm believer in the BSD/MIT style license. If someone wants to use my code great. I shouldn't have to tell others what I want because they use a an #include statement. Most GPL users do not know the difference between copyleft and GPL which is infuriating too as the GPL will spread to other software by a linkage otherwise.
But it is the same principle. While I oppose evil things like most humans who are not psychopaths I do not approve others telling me what to do on my PC and likewise I will honor this in return.
This is where you are wrong. A kid out of highschool has 0 assets and a 100% liability. Who the hell would loan to someone like that?
The problem is you don't get the assets and ability for repayment until later in life. Sometimes much later in life when you start to accumulate. This creates a catch 22 as you can't have the ability to pay without having the ability to pay first and it feeds itself as HR weeds these people out of jobs.
Yes, HR is a problem too. At my employer they are still looking for folks with 3 - 5 years experience and a college degree willing to work for $45,000 for IT work in desktop support/help desk. We can't find jack as 10 years ago we would get 50 applicants.
If we dropped the college requirement we could hire someone ... maybe ... willing to work for $45,000 a year.
Solution is simple actually. Take away the money. Same with healthcare. When free money is involved greed kicks in and darker folks take advantage of others.
Cap student loan for bachelors degrees at $35,000. That is $35,000 for whole degree! That is not unreasonable compared to what we had in the past. This will make the VPs of Diversity at every University do a headspin and rant on rightwing media about mean evil federal government forcing me to loose my job but tough shit!
A $35,000 limit will help the students immediately. If the University can't afford this then they can reach out to their state governors who stopped funding them 15 years ago during the .com recession. It will mean less football stadiums and promotions for their NCAA teams. Oh cry me a river idiots will be up in arms over this in The South especially. But it will happen.
Second, besides the cap it can be a scale with degrees and or trades that are profitable. Engineering or CS degrees get the full 35K for only 3% interest. Art gets only $20K with 7% interest. If the school can't afford this then they can make the student take out more loans privately making the profitable ones have more enrolled students.
Trade schools only get $20K max but students pay 0 and employers get a tax break for apprenticeships for things like Plumbing, auto repair, etc for 3 years on their first job. This is how Europe works and if any European could reply that would be great as it makes sense as not everyone needs to work in a corporate office.
No one is talking about loan forgiveness. What the article is about the mess they and society are in.
Here are the facts:
1. If you have a HS diploma you will live with your parents until 40 and have a life of poverty. HR won't give you the chance to build your resume outside of your grocery store or McDonalds. It kind of forces you to go to a trade school or a university of you want a non horrible sucky life. Don't bother talking about your friend Jon or yourself if you developed computer skills in the late 1990s. That was abnormal and still a very minority statistic.
2. Cost of living is VERY VERY HIGH. You can't attack the kids for not planning when your first jobs pay $35,000 a year with no experience. How the fuck can you pay rent of $1500 a month with that kind of salary? Let alone pay off the loan and a car payment?
3. Asshole College Admins jerked up the prices. Free money Wahoo! What do you do? You jack up prices to the max. Now you Mr. Smarty Pants who doesn't want to pay $30,000 a semester has to compete with Mike Ditwiit who didn't do the math. If you don't pay he will!
4. Federal Government guaranteeing the loans. Hey if you can't loose either way why not keep screwing people over and raising prices?
5. State Governments no longer funding Universities. This is a HUGE one. During the recession of the early 2000s states no longer subsidize the universities due to the free money from the federal student loan program.
So you can blame the kids for being stupid but if you are older which I assume you are, then you have no right to speak as you never had to pay these outrageous prices the youngers folks pay today. In the 1970s you could work at McDonalds and pay your Harvard Degree no problem. This is not true today.
It is a mess in America and it needs fixing FAST. Solution would be caps on the Federal Student Loan Program and maybe an ability to pay calculation put in. If the degree doesn't have the odds statistically of being able to be paid then the government funds less. This will force states to pay back into the University program and lower costs for students. Also the Federal Government could finance trade schools and community colleges differently. Not everyone is meant for University and less than 1/3 people have degrees. Plumbing for example is much cheaper to learn and pays good if you have plenty of experience. Maybe tax breaks for apprentice programs with plumbers, air craft techs, electricians, etc?
Also Maybe a discount tax for those who completed these programs for 5 years so they can keep more of what they earn as well as $40,000 is shit pay and even programmers starting out make $50,000 only if you don't have years of experience to back you up.
If you go into the device settings -> accounts -> manage -> your account -> will open your hotmail/outlook account and you can unassign WIndows 10 Pro from 1 device to another.
It is a great way to save money.
Easy you take a gamble and learn and add it to your resume. IN 2 years you make +150K a year even if you're a jr level developer
Hi this is Rajeesh from Infosys.
I am seeking a senior architect with 10 years experience of Julia for a position in Antartica. Must have 8 years of experience in Go as well and HTML 6 will be handy as required by the PM of this client. If interested please respond back and I will call you at 5am your time only if meet the requirements.
Take care.
Why do you think there is a big push for automation and efficiency management? Companies hate hiring people and paying livable wages. One place there used to be an engineer to take petroleum samples at $85,000 a year. Now a guy making $10/hr does it by following a script in Excel and just enters data that he has no idea what it means.
AI will mean no call centers in 10 years either as it will all be menu based with no one to talk to to pester the company owners. It is the way of the future to cut costs and raise the share prices higher
They do ... to the shareholders. If you are not rich enough to own stocks than that is your problem as you are never entitled to other people's money.
Wireshark is abnormal. Most users do not need to run that and need Office to do stuff in which the Android and IOS versions suck and are more just readers with a few basic functions.
If it is down to 6w which is close to the Atom then I am relieved as it fits my use case perfectly. I have my own i7 4770K OCed to 4.4 ghz to run Visual Studio and Virtual Machines at home :-).
But most things like Workday, ADP, SAP, Concur, and other corporate apps that relied on shitty ancient Java and IE are going wayside for modern HTML 5 versions that run on a browser or have beta Android and IOS versions of their apps too. In that case the device would matter less and security would go up for the business customers.
ARM at this time if you just use Office and Netflix has better power and performance. It's frustrating but I see legacy apps being outplaced or moved to a VDI like Citrix which now has an IOS version to run IE 6 apps. VLC is the only good app I know in the WindowsStore right now besides Netflix and Hulu. I expect that to change if we see more ARM marketshare and Windows 7 finally die off (ha some still use XP).
I guess the use case is MUST have Office and be cheap and portable with lots of power.
My use case was to check email, browse the web, and do wireshark port scans with a USB ethernet dongle and putting them in excel to export.
Apple's cortex is about as fast an an i5. They are catching up and SnapDragon is not the only ARM design out there.
I used to think WindowsRT was a joke a few years ago but I have been witnessing a change in corporate IT after the last recession finally unfroze IT just 2 to 3 years ago. That is much corporate shitware requiring legacy stuff is being updated to be cloud and web based. Those that are not are being hosted in Citrix sessions.
If Office, Netflix, Hulu, MS teams and the silly opensource version of Teams (forgot the name) are also there in the appstore then an Arm is fine. Chromebooks sell for niche uses and the surface go would be a niche use for someone like a college student who has to have MS Office and consume media and nothing else.
Things were different 6 years ago and the newer laptops today do not have cdrom drives anymore either if you notice which shows consumers are not installing x86 software anymore these days rather than going to a website or downloading something.
If you need a freaking ecosystem then you are a corporate user. The more expensive traditional Surface Pros with their power hungry x86 would be more appropriately.
These Surface Go's are for those who just need office and use web apps. Like the ATOM before it they have superior power management within 12 hour ranges if MS were to pick them. For kids, students, and those who want to type things and watch movies in Netflix from the appstore they are a good compromise.
Also 2012 was 6 years ago when WindowsRT and the first surface came out and much has changed. People do not rely on ancient software as much in the consumer space and HTML 5 and web apps mean many do not buy software in a box with cds anymore. Witness today how many new laptops have cdroms in them? 10 years ago any unit without a cdrom drive would flop.
Intel shouldn't have cancelled the ATOM but if you ABSOLUTELY NEED Ms Office then a surface on ARM may make sense if you don't need anything else. Much of the ancient corporate crud is going to Citrix or HTML 5 if the companies are still around and no longer relying on ancient Java, IE, activeX, or x86 software installs.
I had one of the older low cost surfaces when ATOM was still supported. My coworker laughed and made fun of me. However, his screen was so dark you couldn't read it on his to conserve power and by 3pm his battery was dead. Mine stayed up and still had 50% life at 5pm.
ARM has similiar power advantages if all you do is type things in Office, browse the web, and watch Netflix. I miss ATOM as I am sure this Pentium gold sucks and uses more power.
I remember back in the good old days of yore on slashdot where Perl was the coolest thing ever and would be the all new king of all languages like C++. It died out of nowhere as you would be modded -1 faster than you could say goatse 15 years ago on here if you dared say anything bad about Perl.
The complexity of assembler with the efficiency of javascript.
This was C++. In my Javacourse they went on about all the great virtues of this not happening. But I know underneath it all the JVM probably does this stuff and a bug can show where you can't fix it.
C# you can subscribe to events and they can use up all your memory. I have not written code in that language so I am can't comment but anyway I am just a desktop support guy for now. Now I need to maybe code something and get past the HR people who won't count it as real experience.
A reference type is basically a pointer to a location in memory. While faster these can lead to memory leaks and occasional bugs when not used properly. A value type is a value copied over which is safer but can have performance impacts.
FYI I am not a developer at all but I remember seeing this in C++ programming books over 10 years ago when I went to school and studied on my own.
So do I win and get the job? Lol
I am astounded and irritated at the same time coders do not know this?! People like me would love to be jr developers to leave my senior desktop and office 365 support role.
They were offering in my salary range AND I already had the experience. Instead they focused on a gap and stuck with a college kid to train who didn't know anything about SharePoint. Idiots
You know I maybe in the minority but would feel guilty about taking other people's money.
It's theft basically if you won't honor in spirit the reason you are there.
The interesting part is, that our company still has no problem finding new people. We put our finger in the air, and get enough people that we then can qualify in 6-12 month on-the-job training.
Companies just need to forget the fairy tale that a recruiter can get them a 100% qualified person. They need to create those people themselves, if they want them.
You just answered your own question on why your employer has no problem finding applicants.
Take a look at Steve Job's application for Atari in comparison? I know how to code and have been out of the job market for awhile doing Office 365 stuff and desktop support at a senior level. No one will give me a chance because *gasp* you need to be a cookie cutter requirement of check lists.
It's frustrating now to the employer and has been this way for 20 years for the employee who does not have +10 years experience doing the exact same job with the exact same description with 3 managerial references who can attest that you really did do the exact same job as the one listed.
Steve Jobs would be doing help desk work or a janitor at Atari as he had no programming experience and employers don't want to train. They want someone to go at it full swing and stick around for +15 and never job hop or have a history of doing so.
There is no such thing as the ideal job for us. BUT there is no such thing as the ideal candidate either. If employers are willing to train then I will be happy to go to the next level in my career for them.
I have been ghosted by a job offer. I gave a 2 week notice to my previous employer and couldn't even get unemployment as I voluntarily quit! I lost my condo and life savings Fuckers!!
If I was still employed I would have seeked a lawyer. To this day my career is still damaged as I have a gap and took several temp jobs so now HR screens me as a job hopper or unreliable.
It's not going away. HR doesn't have time to recruit and the software basically does the job and scans your LinkedIn to make sure you're honest.
Sorry everyone does this now and the way it works. It's still no reason not to show for a job interview. When you get 200 resumes for each job where you're a 25 chic with no IT experience then how are you going to decide who is lucky enough to be the top 3?
Nothing is unethical to ignore and refuse to do business with someone or an entity. After they did the same to you?
It's kind of like an exgf where things went badly. Best to move forward. As humans we have relationships and are relationship based. Romantic relationships are not that different from professional ones where both parties benefit. Leave when it doesn't benefit you BUT don't be shocked when you get your ass dumped either if you've been an ass or didn't follow thru. Work no different.
I still blame the kids under 30 for a poor work ethic more. I think those that are honorable have been employed for a few years now
I think the clients the recruiters are using still think it's 2012. Your redecilous example of a doctor working for 8/HR is not far from the truth during 2002, 2009 - 2012, and the 1980s for other positions.
My friend in Florida wanted to pay $10/HR for an experienced web developer who also knew Cisco level stuff and could wear 2 hats. He found someone who fit the role and was happy to be in poverty!! ... In 2002 after the .com crash. I was offended!
But that's how it roles in an employers market.
HR has strict budgets based on past performance. What worked before saves $$$$. So they are now scratching their heads on why they are getting the bottom of the barrel folks with no work ethic. It's because those who are semi competent get paid more and are already working!
Wages are always last to respond after a recession and employers don't get the message for many months or ever. Good ones do though.
Also I would like to add during 2009 - 2014 it was not uncommon to have a man work 3 job tikes for 80% pay to save money. When he leaves HR will be stubborn as they want to have one man work 3 jobs. Not create 3 jobs. This creates even more scarcity which hurts them more