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Open Source Devs Reverse Decision to Block ICE Contractors From Using Software (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes Motherboard:
Less than 24 hours after a software developer revoked access to Lerna, a popular open-source software management program, for any organization that contracted with U.S. immigrations and Customs Enforcement, access has been restored for any organization that wishes to use it and the developer has been removed from the project... The modified version specifically banned 16 organizations, including Microsoft, Palantir, Amazon, Northeastern University, Johns Hopkins University, Dell, Xerox, LinkedIn, and UPS... Although open-source developer Jamie Kyle acknowledged that it's "part of the deal" that anyone "can use open source for evil," he told me he couldn't stand to see the software he helped develop get used by companies contracting with ICE.
Kyle's modification of Lerna's license was originally assented to by other lead developers on the project, but the decision polarized the open-source community. Some applauded his principled stand against ICE's human rights violations, while others condemned his violation of the spirit of open-source software. Eric Raymond, the founder of the Open Source Initiative and one of the authors of the standard-bearing Open Source Definition, said Kyle's decision violated the fifth clause of the definition, which prohibits discrimination against people or groups. "Lerna has defected from the open-source community and should be shunned by anyone who values the health of that community," Raymond wrote in a blog post on his website.
The core contributor who eventually removed Kyle also apologized for Kyle's licensing change, calling it a "rash decision" (which was also "unenforceable.")
Eric Raymond had called the decision "destructive of one of the deep norms that keeps the open source community functional -- keeping politics separated from our work."
Kyle's modification of Lerna's license was originally assented to by other lead developers on the project, but the decision polarized the open-source community. Some applauded his principled stand against ICE's human rights violations, while others condemned his violation of the spirit of open-source software. Eric Raymond, the founder of the Open Source Initiative and one of the authors of the standard-bearing Open Source Definition, said Kyle's decision violated the fifth clause of the definition, which prohibits discrimination against people or groups. "Lerna has defected from the open-source community and should be shunned by anyone who values the health of that community," Raymond wrote in a blog post on his website.
The core contributor who eventually removed Kyle also apologized for Kyle's licensing change, calling it a "rash decision" (which was also "unenforceable.")
Eric Raymond had called the decision "destructive of one of the deep norms that keeps the open source community functional -- keeping politics separated from our work."
ESR lectures us all on not mixing open source and politics. Consider us schooled.
"Everything is politics." -- Thomas Mann
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
...so you open the software and you make it available to all, but what makes OSS companies money is the support and other services that are value adds. If you say your biggest payers are now cut off, you aren't going to last. Imagine if Walmart decided trailer park dwellers and fat people were no longer allowed to shop there...
Its funny how we allow countries with communism, dictatorships, genocide, censorship use open source, but we must ban ICE. Trumpâ(TM)s command on ice is just horrible, but if there is any glimmer of compassion with the ICE agents, why suppress it?
Should politics be separated from our work? I'm not convinced it should be. The whole idea of open source / free software is political in nature as it is a means to keep power and control of a users computing with them and not in the hands of any outside entity such as a corporation or government.
So let's take this to the extreme: If computing and Linux were around in WW2, should we have let Hitler use Linux? What if Hitler's use of Linux was the deciding factor in NAZI Germany winning the war?
License for terrorism.
Letting yourself get emotionally manipulated by so-called news media is never wise. Their stories are just stories. They aren't about you. Don't be a tool -- don't let the news media control your life, or your actions, or whether you're happy or sad. They haven't earned it. They don't care about you. They won't be there for you when you need help. Your life means nothing to them.
The same guy made a huge drama when Microsoft bought GitHub:
https://twitter.com/jamiebuild...
https://github.com/Microsoft/w...
You're contracting with ICE if you live in the US. They're part of the law enforcement arm of the government and the government is a representation of you (US citizens). Vote or stop paying taxes if you don't want to support ICE, better yet, move out of the US. Us immigrants spent a lot of time and effort to never run afoul of ICE, not sure why some people have such trouble with them.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
This overall is a very slippery slope if this had continued. Why not ban, any part of government under Trump, any part of gov’t not under Trump, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, Republicans, Democrats, Socialist, pro immigration groups, anti immigration groups, religious/anti-religious groups, pro gun/ anti gun I could make a list for days of groups that polarize any community. I may or may not fit into one or more of the groups I listed or others that you could add to this list. Overall the extreme polarization is what makes people more polarized as everyone gets appalled that one group won’t compromise so the next group won’t compromise. If elected leaders would start to compromise again, we might get some traction in solving real issues.
and get squashed like a bug on a windscreen.
ICE ICE, Baby!
Stop!
Collaborate and listen
I hope that dev got a big goddamn swirly and then got his ass kicked
Or he's such an Incel he's trying to show how woke he is to score a date...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
What's wrong with restricting how you want your work to be used? It is yours after all.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
This wasn't a cancer. This was Kyle being thrown under the bus when the other lead devs saw the inevitable shitstorm get kicked up. It does not endear me to the other lead developers.
Really not qualities the left is known for.
It was pretty much that loser dev being a bitch and suffering the consequences
Considering the FBI and CIA have caused more death and destruction than ICE...
I looked at the dudes LinkedIn. Of course he's some Javascript asshole who hasn't stayed at a single employer for more than a year.
It just goes to show using open source is too risky to rely on when random dudes who guzzled too much CNN randomly change their license from MIT to non-free.
The lesson is to not needlessly create shitstorms.
...could you have stopped him? What would you do, write a sternly worded letter? Start a blog campaign. "Like" a protest on Facebook?
This reminds me of the Drupal developer that was kicked out of the group because some people didn't approve of his consensual sex life.
https://developers.slashdot.org/story/17/03/27/2115233/prominent-drupal-php-developer-kicked-from-the-drupal-project-over-unconventional-sex-life
This sort of PC nonsense is a cancer in our society. We're in this weird era where we've normalized rejecting doing business with anyone you might disagree with. Oddly this is mostly coming from the left, who used to be the ones calling for tolerance. Now it seems to be the opposite, the far left calls for purity, and stamping out anyone or anything that's impure.
It has to stop, it's already tearing us apart.
Feel free, but then it's no longer FOSS and is effectively removed from the open source community.
Nothing really, just create a discriminatory license.
Demanding tolerance was the only way they could pitch their ideas and network. Almost all of them are self destructive in the extreme. As soon as they got a spot at the table tolerance got 86ed faster than Sarah Sanders at a neurotics restaurant.
"Where they come down is not my business."
— Werner Von Braun
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
How are you going to stop Hitler from using it? The code can be easily downloaded from anywhere. A license clause will not stop him. He has this delusion that telling a man with a gun what to do will be effective. He is totally clueless how the real world works.
On the other hand, seperating small children from their parents and not even keeping enough information to ever bring them back together is extreme. If that's OK, why not help China root out American spies and help whoever hack the election?
If you're working under the express license that you can't restrict how you want your work to be done, as part of a much larger project, then your choices are either do the work, knowing you'll benefit the groups that you want to help, with edge cases that ones will exist that you don't, or just leave the project. That simple.
If the entire group feel that strongly, they can stop using the license, and build a new product that they can happily play politics with.
Of all the parts of the US Government to protest, he picked one that is among the most legitimate and defensible functions of a state?
Fortunately, this software is just some Javascript shit that isn't used for anything important.
A Lefty/SJW type, tried to violate the agreement software had been distributed by, and used in good faith. He did this to virtue signal in a way that would exacerbate the problem he was supposedly against, and would cause new problems for the country ?
Well I am shocked.
That tends to happen when the "parents" who brought the children aren't related in any way.
IF you want control over your software, close it.
And when they are. Pull your head out of the sand. Even officials involved have admitted that.
It's weird how no one cared about these "separations" during the Obama administration.
Agreed, 110% & well said - It's often upset me to hear some of the 'tall tales' (sometimes not though which upset me even more then) out there... & the way I have it figured is this:
When they have you in a state of fear, you're more easily influenced &/or will help "Help me Mommy" (to gov't./big money saviours who set the WHOLE BS SHOW UP to get you to go their way for their 'hidden agendas' - REAL Hegellian Dialectic population/societal sociological control grid method, exposed, in a nutshell).
* It gets so you don't know WHO to believe anymore.
APK
P.S.=> Giant "f'ing" mindgame... apk
...for Obama, the Dalai Lama, and your baby mama.
Where El Leadoro (sic) says something you don't like and you can get rid him just like that! I wonder if this works on systems that are thought of as democratic?
"Microsoft Corporation"
- "Palantir Technologies"
- "Amazon.com, Inc."
- "Northeastern University"
- "Ernst & Young"
- "Thomson Reuters"
- "Motorola Solutions"
- "Deloitte Consulting LLP"
- "Johns Hopkins University"
- "Dell Inc"
- "Xerox Corporation"
- "Canon Inc"
- "Vermont State Colleges"
- "Charter Communications"
- "LinkedIn Corporation"
- "United Parcel Service Co"
But why stop at companies and orgs that "collaborate" with ICE? Why not ban the Republican party? Why not ban white people? Why not ban Joss Whedon (cuz he's a prick)?
Failing to attack the whole of the cis-white-heteropatriarchy is remarkably short-sighted of these brave SJW's and is why the effort was doomed. Go big or go home.
On the other hand, seperating small children from their parents and not even keeping enough information to ever bring them back together is extreme. If that's OK, why not help China root out American spies and help whoever hack the election?
SepArating children from parents wouldn't be a problem if the activist judges had not forced ICE to place children is lesser restrictive accommodations with the Flores v Reno settlement. And of course, had the parents taken the legal routes to immigration, there would be no problem either. An alleged parent places a child in danger by crossing an international border illegally and then has the gall to complain when they are sent to detention and the child is required by court order to not be detained with them.
China, North Korea and Russia use Linux. How are you going to prevent them from using it, right now? Come on, you have a real chance to try it, not armchair quarterback some hypothetical situation you are safely decades removed from.
You won't do shit. Because clueless people like you are all talk and no action when it comes to dealing with rough people who weild guns. Stick to playing video games, junior, the real world isn't for you.
and yet you can afford internet, and a device to use it. irony.
Eric was not one of the original authors of the Open Source Definition. His memory is imperfect, I doubt deliberately, we're just old. The OSD was created about 9 months before the founding of OSI as the Debian Free Software Guidelines. Eric wasn't a Debian developer. The only change upon forming OSI was the name of the document. Later on, OSD #10 was added (which IMO was not necessary as it's implied by OSD#6).
Also, Eric's call for shunning is a bit over the top. Just get with the values of Open Source and move on, or be very careful to call your non-Open-Source paradigm something other than Open Source.
Nor does it seem necessary to have expelled a developer, if he wished to remain with the project after the removal of an ill-thought-out license term. We can preserve the ethos without being draconian.
Bruce Perens.
You're talking like there's no Chinese open source devs. Some of them may support the Chinese government, while others may be against spying in general.
If you only work with people who agree with you on every political topic, you'll be forever working alone.
It depends. How many other devs assented?
If all of them, and they are now backpedaling, then yes, fuck em.
It does not endear me to the other lead developers.
When you would subvert the workings of the law because of your own SJW leanings your opinion is questionable at best.
People who are in the US illegally are BREAKING THE LAW. If they want to be in the US they need to follow the legal process.
You don't get to decide which laws should be enforced and which laws should be ignored. That is not how the system works in the US.
If you don't like how things are done in the US, get the fuck out and don't ever come back.
Is this the same Eric Raymond who used to love to talk about guns and freedom from government?
How time changes people.
So you're saying that you want small children to be incarcerated?
And U.S. law, 28 USC 1498, specifically allows contractors for the Federal Government to use intellectual property for government projects whether they are licensed or not. Link discusses 28 USC 1498(a) (patent infringement), but 28 USC 1498(b) covers copyright infringement.
Oh sure, you can file an action in the Federal Court of Claims for "recovery of [your] reasonable and entire compensation as damages for such infringement," but since the licensing cost for the rest of the world is zero... you do the math.
The aspect of the story that doesn't make sense to me is the revocation of the developer's access. If he had gone and made the license change without consulting anyone, that would make sense, but by all accounts the other lead developers agreed to the change. In that case they should all share responsibility for making the change.
Is there something else going on with this guy?
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
I totally agree with you. Bush Omega and Obama never should has enabled that policy to start with. How about this? When we arrest them we just toss their children into prison with them? But wait! Families need to be kept together so lets just toss granny in there with them. Just like they do in NK or old style USSR? How about that?
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Very timely, very relevant: https://youtu.be/l63nY0AYebI
Most of this meta-outrage is manufactured.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
If their children are to be detained also, like the immigrant children are, then why shouldn't they be detained together? However, I note this didn't happen under Bush or Obama.
I'll also note that when citizens are detained awaiting trial, their children aren't just shipped some place without sufficient documentation to reunite them.
I consider that an attempt to bamboozle people into believing that politics is something to be avoided or an attempt to fool people into believing that one can "keep politics separated from [one's] work". Such a thing is not possible as people hold different views on all sorts of things and work together for different reasons.
Right in line with this is an assertion I've only ever read from advocates of the open source development methodology that some licenses (such as the MIT X11, the 3-clause BSD, and the Apache v2.0 licenses) are "apolitical" whereas the GNU GPLs (v2, v3, and the AGPLs) are "political". And this is typically said in a context which tries to demean use or defense of the relevant GPL. It's no accident that the former set are lax permissive, non-copyleft, or (as free software activist Richard Stallman aptly puts it) "pushover" licenses which all allow proprietary derivatives and these GNU GPLs do not allow proprietary derivatives. It's also no accident that large proprietary firms are fans of the open source development methodology. They stand to benefit when people develop powerful useful software and license it to allow for proprietary derivatives.
A better and more useful observation is that politics are an inescapable part of life, it's better to understand what's really going on and why (typically uncovered by asking 'who benefits?'), and that different political views are not the same as an absence of politics.
Digital Citizen
It also wouldn't happen if ICE had put the slightest bit of effort into keeping track of whose child was whose and where they went.
You know, honoring a basic duty of care?
So you support American developers helping the Chinese government find and shoot American operatives?
Actually, no I don't. But even more, I don't want them incarcerated with no way to reunite them with their parents. But note they're still incarcerated now, it's just that they're in kiddie jail rather than a family oriented facility.
Jamie Kyle is an unemployment idiot that can't keep a job mre then a year. He's been let go from 7 of his past jobs.
No. It's cancer.
Kyle wasn't thrown under a bus.
He tried to make a major change to the licensing of software that wasn't entirely his own.
He was smacked for it. End of story.
Kyle's still free to fork "My Shitty, Politically Vindictive Learna Offshoot".
He's simply not being allowed to do it for the primary project.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
A new practice across the West, “porking,” where pranksters place pork products in with the halal meat at their local grocery store, affirming that multiculturalism forces a single standard onto all cultures, “assimilating” them.
This might dismay some of the new arrivals who are, because every ethnic group works in its own interests alone, hoping to assimilate the natives by demanding special treatment in law, attire, and yes, the meat section of your local grocery store.
As of yet, varieties of “porking” have not been found for other cultures, but presumably someone is working on this somewhere, knowing the internet and its canny and wily legions of trolls, recidivists, and malcontents.
In the meantime, activists in the UK and EU are continuing their process of “porking” as a silent and innocent protest against the abuses of multiculturalism.
Did the devs actually assent, or did they just acquiesce because they feared being ostracized by the other devs if they dared to voice a disapproving opinion?
Very timely, very relevant: https://youtu.be/l63nY0AYebI
What does a video about some overwrought outrage over a few tweets, over a trailer for a video game, have to do with this topic? We're talking about developers, that wield actual power over a software project, going against one of the fundamental principles of open source.
In the USA, most medical procedures can be scheduled within a week. Emergencies happen NOW or tomorrow.
Where do you think well-off Canadians go for their medical care? To the USA. Why is that?
The developer(s) who made the program get to choose the license, whatever it is, and change it on a whim if they so desire. The rest of us get to decide if we want to use the software given the license.
This wasn't a cancer. This was Kyle being thrown under the bus
Kyle is the cancer. The other developers wizened up, a welcome change in the software industry.
https://masr140.net/%D8%A3%D8%...
Because the project he did it to wasn't solely "his".
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Hilarious. Some self-rightous putz decides he doesn't like law enforcement and corporations and gets himself kicked off a project. It's about time we start holding idiots like this accountable.
If their children are to be detained also, like the immigrant children are, then why shouldn't they be detained together?
Because the law was changed, years ago, so that children couldn't be incarcerated in adult facilities.
However, I note this didn't happen under Bush or Obama.
You are mistaken.
I'll also note that when citizens are detained awaiting trial, their children aren't just shipped some place without sufficient documentation to reunite them.
Those are citizens. Different rules apply to citizens.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
It says right in the summary that the other developers agreed to the change, then changed their minds after the backlash.
As someone who has frequently complained about people reacting to outrage you should be supporting their right to speech free from consequences and criticism.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Blame the (foreign national) admin who was in charge of Hillary's illegal private email server for that one, bro. Not any devs fault.
If the Open Source Community is explicitly allowing people to utilize their software for potentially bad purposes, I have to question the health, both mental and emotional, of the open source community as a whole.
There's always a reason I stay away from most open source, and this becomes yet another reason to do so.
It wasnt's solely his prroject.
Governments are by definition the use of violence to control a population. They are not good things. Free software is more or less more a set of principles, a philosophy, or a value system than a legal thing no matter how much the licenses thereof are technically legal. The reality is even without copyright free software would continue to exist and be promoted and its not clear at all that it would be any more or less effective at existing with or without government because as things stand actual enforcement is in practice nearly non-existent.
It's very similar to principled libertarians. It's a philosophy first, not just a political party. Democrats and republicans belong to political parties and there is no philosophical basis for said parties. You can call yourself a libertarian, but your not a real libertarian if you don't follow the philosophy. The philosophy being that you don't support the use of violence to achieve social or political objectives outside the use of self defense (roughly). In other words you wouldn't support boarder guards, anti-drug programs, taxation, or similar even if you want to solve opioid addiction, save people from starvation, or live in a "world" that doesn't include foreigners. Yea- that last one is the reality of what you are supporting if you support boarder guards. Personally I'm not a racist and while I recognize that there can be issues with people immigration I also recognize that at least in the USA it's not actually taking away jobs or increasing crime and even to the extant it were in other places those are small costs to live in a truly free society.
No, you're dreaming. They haven't done any such thing.
Incarceration would be temporary - either a prelude to deportation, or asylum when it is warranted (and not when it is not).
Hopefully we agree so far.
A family-oriented facility may not be the best idea when you may not know the kids are even related - and the kids are now in a jail with other adult criminaIs. If there were other, legally-immigrated relatives who would consent to be bonded, other options could possibly be provided.
Hopefully we agree this far too.
So now we are down to arguing statistics and case-by-case procedure rather than black and white evil.
Now this pretty much proves the point as to why this polarising posturing has no place in civil society, and specifically needs to be prevented from taking hold in open source.
Bruce Perens wrote:
Communism isn't inherently evil, it's just that it has often come with totalitarianism.
Communism is a lie told by tyrants to grow and sustain political support for themselves.
Because falsehoods told to advance malevolent ends are categorically evil, Communism is inherently evil.
So Bruce, would you say it is an accurate characterization of your own beliefs that the lies and propaganda use by tyrants to gain power are not themselves evil? That it is exclusively the exercise of power for harmful ends which is evil? If so, what is your basis for that distinction? Additionally, would you make the same distinction for any other grift, such as an advance-fee scam; Are the deliberate falsehoods told to the mark not evil, but only the subsequent monetary transactions evil?
"It's not that advance-fee deals with Nigerians don't work, its just that they have never really been tried," says the mark.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
> I'll also note that when citizens are detained awaiting trial, their children aren't just shipped some place without sufficient documentation to reunite them.
Largely because other relatives can step in to look after them and assume the duty of care. Otherwise the children of citizen criminals who cannot be cared for in other ways, are indeed shipped off some place. Depending on age & circumstance if they are fostered it may be judged inadvisable to reunite.
If the children are legally citizens of another country, it is that country that should step in to accept repatriation immediately and at their cost (since that state owes the parental duty of care in the absence of the parents). Committing an illegal act by a parent does not automatically confer a right on an arresting state to extend their budget and effort past what they have got, are capable of doing.
>the other developers agreed to the change,
The "other developers" only being the two that founded the project. And one of those (@kittens) said he didn't agree with the change, but wasn't going to vote against it because he hadn't been part of the project for a long time and it wouldn't be fair to impede what the other founder decided. No other contributors voted on the matter.
Agreed. Ice has been evil separating children for parents to make angry voters happy. However, what gives me a damn right to tell others what to do on their own computers?
Unless I am paying them I agree with the libertarians on this one. It is also why I am a firm believer in the BSD/MIT style license. If someone wants to use my code great. I shouldn't have to tell others what I want because they use a an #include statement. Most GPL users do not know the difference between copyleft and GPL which is infuriating too as the GPL will spread to other software by a linkage otherwise.
But it is the same principle. While I oppose evil things like most humans who are not psychopaths I do not approve others telling me what to do on my PC and likewise I will honor this in return.
http://saveie6.com/
Yet another definition of SJW. Should start collecting these...
Theo, you listening?
Open the border.
Let's have free trade. Let people trade the one commodity everyone rich and poor alike have. Their Labour.
Borders are as imaginary as IP (imaginary property )
If people want to work then let them. TAX them.
Imagine a world where people are free to work to create a life for themselves.
Imagine freeing up the resources we waste on ICE used to build bridges rather than walls.
There is no "right to speech free from consequences and criticism". Grow up.
Compassion is not the only virtue. Other virtues like fairness or loyalty can sometimes be more important. Letting those other virtues hold sway does not make someone a psychopath.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
don't pay your taxes and you'll go to jail. We accept a certain level of tyranny in exchange for the benefits of a functioning government and civilization.
You're right Communism doesn't work, but your reasons are wrong. It's because you never get passed the "Dictatorship of the Proles". Basically, when you do the large scale ownership transfer (transferring, let us remember, the _means_ of production, not the fruits of said production) inevitably a violent dictator inserts themselves into the chaos that follows and takes it all for them selves. Happened to Russia, happened to China. Communism is too radical a change all at once. Especially since that change is usually happening in the background of a major economic collapse (since that's usually what got folks to approve the change in the first place).
The solution is Democratic Socialism. Don't bother with the ownership change. Instead, regulate what folks can do with their property. Money is _power_. Never forget that. With enough money someone can and will control your access to food, shelter and medicine and with that they control _you_. To prevent that We form Democratic governments to regulate how much wealth individuals can have.
As for America vs Eastern Europe, that has more to do with your former country being severely damaged in WWII and America getting away scott free. America was able to consolidate it's wealth during the late 40s, 50s and 60s while the rest of the world recovered. It didn't help that Russia kept screwing with Eastern Europe the whole time (or that we were occasionally butting our heads in and causing trouble).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I can't believe someone would try to imply ICE is evil. A group of men and women who protect this country from foreign invaders. People who come here and kill us and take our money and jobs, and not pay taxes.
It is a bad choice, bad to get into politics and bad for taking the side of the minority. That only hurts the software you write.
How do they stop someone from using open source software?
Hey, it's only coming up now because Trump is the only one who might care and actually do something about it. No chance at all of that with Obama or Hillary, they only had time to party with the Hollywood typed until falling down drunk.
Sounds to me like Kyle got the old heave-ho via that old trick that engineers sometimes use of letting the idiot manager have his way in a very public way so that the PHB gets the can when it hits the fan. Tough luck being a dick Kyle.
Yeah, define bad.
What a schmuck.
Children may be fostered, but in the event the parent is found not guilty, there is no reason not to reunite them.
If we're going to repatriate the children (hint, wwe don't), then the parents can as well go with them.
Of course, in some cases per international treaties we owe the parents and their children a right to a hearing for asylum. At least some of them are NOT here illegally, their legality simply hasn't been determined yet.
You seem desperate to find some way that it is not gross negligence to remove a child from their parents without even documenting where the child ended up. Sorry, not buying it. There exists no theory where that is adequate to the duty of care.
So detain the parents in a children's facility.
Let's see, either a bunch of people are dreaming or you are. Wonder which it could be.....
Failing to even know where the kids end up is pure negligence in any event, I hope you can agree with that. Quite a few of the kids pretrty much disappeared into the system with no documentation, no plan to figure out if the adults they arrived with are relatives and no ability to even figure out if they might have adult relatives legally in this country.
That is black and white evil no matter what you think the kid's proper disposition might be.
"keeping politics separated from our work"...
Said every Nazi prison guard ever.
Someone really needs to work on their wording.
> Failing to even know where the kids end up is pure negligence in any event, I hope you can agree with that.
In the UK, about 1 third of child trafficking victims who enter the care system end up going missing, which is again negligence.
We're now however arguing negligence rather than "evil". So should inefficient organizations not be permitted to use Lerna even though it may improve their performance, freeing up budget for more worthwhile activtiies and responses?
This proves the ridiculousness of the original addition to the license.
ICE simply enforces the laws that congress passes and presidents sign into effect.
The Democrats have been so insane since the 2016 election that they have not cooperated on any significant legislation. Even the Republicans are so split on immigration, that they have totally failed to get ANY immigration bills onto Trump's desk for a veto or signature. Therefore the laws currently enforced by ICE were put on the books BEFORE Trump was elected and were in effect during the Obama years. Only the hyper-political SJW morons on the left are calling for a war on ICE during the Trump era (because: Trump) while not having been at war against ICE during the Obama era (ICE has been around since shortly after 9/11 and their mission is essentially unchanged since they were formed).
Simply put: the guy outed himself as a stupid meat puppet and deserved to be sidelined. The total lack of consistency means this is not about some "higher principle", no matter what he might now claim; it's just about toxic Trump hatred and there's no place for that in a rational activity.
It is a well understood legal concept that at some point negligence becomes criminal. I'm pretty sure sending a small child away and not knowing where is a good example. This is compounded when you sent the child away after involuntary seperation from a presumptive parent or guardian. Doing it as a matter of policy even when the child is old enough to clearly state what their relation is to the adults is worse. Then further chalking it up as a deterrence (that is, a punishment) tips it right over the cliff into evil.
There's really no room to talk around that.
> It is a well understood legal concept that at some point negligence becomes criminal
And that would be arbitrated in criminal courts, not prior and extra-judicial additions to software licenses.
It's not about politics, it's about a federal law enforcement organization enforcing the laws of this country... It's their job and the whole purpose of their existence. It isn't their job to write laws, that's what congress does, if you don't like it lobby congress rather than complaining about ICE?
Evil must always be confronted. Going along to get along is just as horrible as the first evil.
The whole ice thing is BS. Those women were being separated from their kids just like every other woman in the USA going to jail. They're criminals. They're doing what they're supposed to be doing. This is also what the liberal 9th circuit said had to be done.
So it's a lie wrapped up in a moral argument and people are too stupid to realize that. It's bullshit.
" ICE's human rights violations"
Fuck You.
Enjoy living in a prison shithole cuntry Amerikuks!
>Capitalism is teh best
A parrot can also speak.
It doesn't take criminal courts to choose not to associate with unsavory people. Only to impose criminal penalty.
But as far as I can tell, the facts at hand aren't contested.
Prosecute those fascist nationalist fuck holes.
Solidarity with all oppressed people, regardless of stripes.
Issue a sternly worded letter? Add a new clause to the GPL? How would any of those things work?
The only way to stop them would be to make the code private.
Stupid, ignorant SJW losers who have no clue what they are talking about should stay off of Slashdot.
So you really had an issue with Obama when he put the word out and 50k children were LEFT at the border by their PARENTS a few years ago...right?
I am sure you can tell just who the eff is trafficking children and whose are whose on the border too, eh?
It's cool to be down on ICE folks.
What word was that? We did have a problem of tens of thousands of unaccompanied children presenting themselves at the border. But they were not split from their parents with no idea how to reunite them by any part of the Obama administration, or indeed, any American.
It was not fine, but the U.S. didn't do it.
Okay, let's go with cancer, then. It metastasized, the community excised the most visible lump, and the rest responded to chemo.
He was smacked for it. End of story.
And with that, you drive the bus over him, deliberately missing the folks who told him "yeah, you've got a good idea there, do it". Great driving there.