I may have not misread your last sentence, but it is also not true. The 1800X uses about 35%-40% more power than the 7700K. Go check any review where they actually measure the power draw.
Video above. Wattage of of 7700K is slightly less.
As you can see at idle the i7 770K is 1.5 whole watt less than the Ryzen. When cranked up AMD wins in the AutoCad test in power consumption over Intel. In torture loop in the end Intel wins but AMD runs cooler.
I may add Tomshardware has been accused for 15 years now of being in the pockets of Nvidia and Intel and many would say biased in the link above.
They are pretty close as AMD measures power consumption differently. Some tests AMD is ahead. Go look at the crappy FX series? I am no AMD fanboy and the FX series and my underwhelming Phenom II that I had before it made me switch to Intel. AMD fired all the good architects last decade to cut costs and brought in H1b1 to do the job. Big mistake. FX bulldozer was terrible!
But anyway in the past decade it was ATI graphics that kept them afloat after screwing up their CPUs. Now we see the opposite and I hope they remain in business.
Do an honest survey of multiple tests reported on internet sites. Ryzen's base clock is lower, ryzen has lower IPC, ryzen can't be overclocked as far whether on air, water, or LN2.
AMD has greatly improved performance, so much so that in very heavily multi-threaded applications where AMD's core count advantage can be used, AMD is faster on about half of the applications. Good for AMD, I like seeing the company successful. Nonetheless, the Ryzen line is not as good as Intel's products.
I disagree as not as good.
4 cores for an expensive CPU is not a good product in 2017. Again I say this as an Intel user if I were to buy today. Google threadripper and also google the i7 6800 series which perform about as bad in games and worse than the lower core i7 7700K for IPC per core. I don't see people saying the i7 6850 sucks comments or they are not good? Sure both Ryzen and a i7 6900/6800 can do the heavy workloads and game. Ryzen is half the cost of these exotic intel CPUs.
I guess it is the definition of good. I view them as different markets. For the low and high end AMD wins while the 7700K wins for people who just game. This also begs the question who just buys an i7 for gaming? It was meant as a workhorse. The i5 and Ryzen R5 is quite competitive. Gamers forget it is the GPU almost always rather than the CPU for the bottleneck.
My PC right now running Win10 pro has 1600 threads and 131 processes with just Chrome with 5 tabs, Outlook, several word documents and a single Excel file. I think the case for more cores is becoming more and more important for user experience as even my phone as more cores than the i7 7700K.
Keep in mind Intel OCed the i7 7700K waaay overboard out of fear of AMD. It gets up to 90C easily without liquid cooling at 5 ghz for crying out loud! Also the first reviews of Ryzen had ram at 2600 mhz and had bios issues.
The silicon used on Ryzen is more power efficient and therefore has a limit between 3.8 ghz and 4.2 ghz. Basically a Ryzen 1800X is an 8 core 16 thread i7 4790K Haswell. It is not that far behind and of courtse a Ryzen 1800x will cream an i7 7700k for multithreaded performance with no threadripper.
FYI I am typing this on an i7 4770K OC to 4.0 ghz and see no reason to upgrade as it is fast enough so I am no AMD fanboy or even use their CPUs at the moment. Sorry AMD Ryzen is most certainly a high end chip prosumer chip as far as I can see and even in games is at least in the same ballpark as Intel. Doom, Crysis 3, and Dues Ex run faster on AMD. True Grand theft auto runs better on Intel which every review and Battlefield 1 but overall. It is a good architecture I can see. If I were to buy a new CPU today I would be an idiot to spend $$$$ on a freaking 4 core cpu in 2017. My phone as more cores
Facepalm.... FYI AMD rehired the Alpha CPU and AthlonXP architect in 2014 and created a brand new architecture from scratch.
Spend 10 seconds and google "Ryzen CPU". Ryzen had embarrased Intel this spring and ran less watts than the i7 7700K. No you did not misread my last sentence.
Seriously watch the video if you are into computers?
This could save doctors a ton of money if this is true. I suppose transcribers are for teenagers and not for raising a family and they should have made better life choices than demand $15/hr?
Even if there are higher error rates you can have 1 real human monitor 50 computer automatized transcriptions where the computer is fairly sure but not 100% certain. Hospitals are always looking for ways to save pennies
This could cut costs greatly with this automation if it is true. Why pay 50 transcribers when you can pay 1 for a reduced wage since demand will now be lower and have the computer do the work for free?
I do not want Mexican poachers in the Gulf of Mexico depleting stock for American fisherman. The government is not the bad guy but rather protecting the property of the fisherman.
This example set in medieval Europe happened frequently. Farmers over fed their cows and when grass became scarce instead of conserving in a panic all agaisn't their self interests quickly outdid each other trying to eat as much grass as they can and worry to screw the other guy.
We have Canadian Cod disaster after 17 years it still has and probably never will recover.
You assume people are rational actors. This whole shareholder first only think about the next quarter worry later puts pressure to follow the tragedy of the commons example above. This is where government needs to come up.
When I lived in Alaska I was warned DO NOT FISH. To protect the salmon a police officer would arrest my me and son for freaking fishing but they did so because of fish stock that benefited everyone.
"The United States needs to show it is serious about protecting sustainable fisheries and international rule of law." Right. Change that to protecting its own interests, and international rule of law where it benefits self. As history has shown time and again.
So, please, don't try to play just and rightful, it has not worked for America for many decades.
Of course we are. Canadians do the same as do the Japanese. It's the job of our governments to do what is right for the citizens with the exception of tech workers of course:-)
But, governments like Canada and the US do so for good reason. Not to help pump up the shareprices of Sunkist Tuna, but also to prevent a disaster like the Canadian Cod Industry from poachers. 17 years later they still are not back! Other predators came in that eat younger Cod. It will never come back probably as a result.
It is bad when you have illegal poachers in your country ruining the economy for everyone else, but imagine a foreign entity coming in with fishing nets that are miles long and killing mass amounts of fish? Worse cut nets drag all over the world for years killing non stop which is why these so called libtard snowflake environmentalists want to ban them.
So yes countries have a national interests to protect their resources from foreign poachers. Canada and the US had fights too over salmon, but conservation is one of the reasons as both countries loose if all the salmon are gone or become economically difficult to get.
Anyway I wish Redhat would have bought Java and made native compilers with native heavyweight gui methods but who am I kidding?
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. We had native, heavyweight components in Java (the original AWT), but they caused major maintenance and cross-platform behavior problems. Swing was the answer, and is far superior.
IT SUCKED? Shoot I remember at Manhattan community college sitting on a Pentium III 450 mhz beast (expensive at the time and very shiny and new wishing I had something that good at home) and making a Hello World in AWT. 1 minute to load?! No really 1 freaking minute while the disk spun for eternity. Lord can you imagine a complex program like Quicken load on such machines written in java??
It was dark and hard to read on the 14 inch monitors at the time with a different font and button style than Windows NT 4.0 apps running in the background. It was not usable and offered no integrated feel. In 2006 when I finished my degree I played with Java again in a real course and Java 5 was new and exciting which had generics (funny C# had them for half decade already) and Sun put same lame styling like metal and motif feel but it still was horrible. I did this because I was a typical slashdot anti Windows zealout. I regret that as those who took the c# class had programming jobs:-(
Oh well.
Sun just gave up on Java and so have I. It is time to move on and consider it like COBOL for legacy mainframe and heavy server apps written 18 years ago when it was cool. Unfortunately C# has over taken it for most apps but we have some smaller ones like Python at least.
I have some vague recollections that, some implementation files (not headers) looked ah identical, some people argued it's the obvious implementation others it was lifted. To me it looked that it was heavenly inspired by someone that read the source
Then all of SQL should be banned likely someone else wrote it first. Wine should be banned as they do use the same implementation (not same files). Regardless it was a clean room implementation and no files were copied similiar with the Sco scandal a decade ago who tried to pull the same thing on Linux.
You should review Oracle open source contributions and compare to those made by Microsoft before talking about "threats".
About c#, well, I think it's the other way around as it was designed as a Java clone when the justice ruled 15 years ago that "Microsoft's Java" could not have Java in the name. They only left one feature off when implementing it: cross-platformness.
The reason I typed that is Oracle just made WINE and SAMBA a potential liability and illegal in their lawsuit agaisn't Android. What Google did was use a clean room implementation of Java by the Apache project. NO SOURCE CODE FROM ORACLE was used. Oracle sued saying they owned the API meaning for example if I write a book and you write one I can say I own your book because we both used the word "the"?!
So now MariaDB can be killed even if all the MySQL code is removed. Linux and FreeBSD would not exist anymore either as bell labs could say LOOK IT HAS CAT! We own the syntax.
This might be the death of all free software. Thankfully Microsoft has not sued wine or Samba yet and Oracle with MariaDB but thanks to that court they effectively changed laws through judicial activism to expand just because they are butt hurt their java phone failed. Boo!
This is far more dangerous than someone changing standards or making tying arrangements with vendors. We will see the result. I imagine SecureSH could be illegal next to as it uses telnet commands. This is just insanity and gee thanks Oracle. Thanks alot you greedy bastard.
I would like MS to make a Linux distro. It couldn't be any worse than Debian or Fedora or any other Linux distro that uses systemd, which I find are buggier and lower quality than even Windows ME was. If they made a reliable, systemd-free Linux distro, I'd seriously consider using it, and I might even consider paying for it were it good enough. If they bundle.NET Core and make it work seamlessly, I'd be very interested in using it.
I don't know if this is a troll but they kind of do. Ubuntu for Windows is Ubuntu without SystemD.... but runs on Windows:-/
Not a real option but cute toy thing to run some scripts. ALso.NET core 2.0 was just released and does run on Linux. I always preferred FreeBSD if I have do unix like stuff. I find handbook and docs amazing and a step ahead of Linux which tries to make gui and friendly tools to do things behind the scenes. FreeBSD has great long term support and even features lacking in Linux or are behind. ZFS, dtrace, jails, and for awhile it's TCP/IP stack was better too as Apache used to cream Linux easily until kernel 2.6.
Kind of like Microsoft's embrace-extend-extinguish, I think the Linux community has made a big mistake to give Red Hat that much control with Systemd.
Actually Microsoft has done an IBM like about face with open source and standards. I dare say they're even not evil anymore as they lost to Android and open standards from what I see so far.
Oracle and Redhat have done most damage. I hate Java now which I was a fan last decade. Sun ruined it and Oracle made a pact with the devil.
Who favors copyrighting whole freaking APIs? Oracle. Who has sued open source developers? Oracle. Who buys and forks things like MySQL? Oracle. Who changes standards? Redhat. Who makes things unpredictable when changing standards? Redhat.
Now who has opensourced proprietary APIs like.NET core? Microsoft. Who contributes to Freebsd and Linux for their VMs and adds provisioning for them in their cloud? Microsoft. Who has made their once proprietary development software and added Android vm and iOS support? Microsoft.
I think in 2017 we can safely say changing and extinguish standards is not Microsoft but Oracle and Redhat! I am not a fan boy nor work for MS. Just am frustrated and prefer not to live in the past anymore as Java is a could have been
Yes this is slashdot which views MS as the devil, but c#.net is what Java could have been if it were not for Sun Microsystems ineptitude and managerial incompetence.
I hate Oracle more than Microsoft and view Oracle as the number one threat to open source. Not Microsoft as they have just released.NET core 2.0 to open source and are now being friendly to other platforms.
Anyway I wish Redhat would have bought Java and made native compilers with native heavyweight gui methods but who am I kidding?
When I do this I make a copy or play with a test project. Lord help him if he has to go into System Administration after he losses his job over this. I have a raid 0 on my system. Dangerous? YEP. But it is fast as hell for goofing around with virtual machines. Do I have anything critical? Nope ISO files are on oldschool mechanical disks and so is software storage. My documents are on a regular disk and backup up to a cloud solution. If it fails? Beh. Just rebuild the raid 0 and the VM's as I got all the important things on more reliable storage. As a computer operator owner here more people...especially TECH people... should do proper care and maintenance just like with their cars.
There may very well be a user interface problem with the product. I don't want to blame the victim.
However, this guy was going to lose his work someday. Maybe it would be a hard drive failure. Maybe a corruption. House fire. Who knows? The point is eventually he was going to have data loss because he doesn't back up. Microsoft may very well be the direct cause here, but this guy was NOT following any kind of best practices.
I bet if he replaced Microsoft Code with Emacs or Vi this story would be marked as flamebait and not posted. But since it is from Microsoft it got posted as this is Slashdot.
I agree and tell my colleagues now to avoid slashdot for non biased opinions sadly. It is quite ridiculous
I am getting tired of this rhetoric as Slashdot seems to be the I.T. equivalent of FoxNews with a bias. I even submitted a story last week on 'LaTex' now coming to MS Word in Office 365 which is one of the complaints I have read here for 20 years and thought some would be happy to hear. I got marked for Spam??
If you do not like Microsoft products do not use them. No one if forcing you. But some of us do use them and they are prevalent in the I.T. field
I bet in Emacs I can delete things too or Eclipse or any other modern environment. Like what others say have a backup and no "online" storage like RAID or cloud solutions ARE NOT BACKUP as you can delete things online. I am not paid by Microsoft, nor am I a fanatic. Infact I used to be heavily anti MS back in the day hence my name. I just want to see rational people and stories for a change!
I've spent 20+ years in the transactional / EDPP print industry helping to support an operation that produces 300+M pages of output annually with equipment handling over 1400 unique pages / minute. I've debugged PostScript jobs in excess of 2GB in size and over 1M pages, and PDFs of similar scope and scale. Worked, advised, and consulted with the key leaders in the industry including Adobe, Xerox, Oce, Konika-Minolta, Kodak, HP, Xeikon. My point to the street cred is that here's what I'm seeing...
Statement print is not dead, but is slowly and steady declining. E-delivery of statements, especially through secure trusted third-party systems such as Dropbox, is enabling this transformation. The area that will continue to see print is in durable copy requirements. Right now physical media (paper, plastic, etc.) is the only one that can meet the specific needs of this industry segment. Physical print is also the only proven medium for ultra-long-term archiveability. Yes, there is millennium disc, and similar technology. However, the printed page only requires two things to interpret it - the ability to view the document in some manner (e.g. light), and knowledge on how to decode the symbology. Everything else requires more steps, and a higher level up the technology curve.
That isn't to say that we should abandon e-delivery for physical print. There are a large number of transient items that e-print is more than perfectly acceptable for - including most monthly/annual bills and statements, receipts for most items, etc. And having an electronic version for searchability just makes a lot of sense in the modern age - books, congressional bills, executive orders, etc. But, the final, unmuteable, version should be on acid-free paper or parchment.
As for packaging print - it will never die. Not until someone can deliver my Honeynut Cheerios electronically - there will still be a need for this technology.
Regarding the OP - Xerox has had two major problems... converting their lab work into sell-able items. Xerox PARC invented PostScript (which beget PDF through project Carousel at Adobe), GUI, Ethernet, and many of the other inventions that made modern technology use able. 2) They have a really, really hard time keeping their equipment up to current technology, outsourced all their engineering. Not just shipped it overseas, OUTSOURCED IT!, and refuse to let new technology cannibalize market-share from their existing installed base. For example, PostScript (initially called Interpress) was found to possibly "compete" with their LCDS and Metacode languages. Rather than add a third, they deep-sixed it. John and Chuck took it, started Adobe (name of the creek behind John's house) and it became Adobe's first product. Xerox attempted to play catch-up, but never could. Eventually LCDS, Metacode (and IBM's AFP) started to become more and more relegated to narrower and narrower workflows as PostScript and PDF have taken over the marketspace.
Good luck to Xerox in getting their cranium extricated from their arse. But, I expect them to end up much like Kodak (which invented digital photography)
Fred in IT
Yeah in 1997 when I read PCWorld (yes you had to go to the magazine section in those days besides chips & dip which eventually became slashdot) they had articles on how by 2001 the paperless office would be here as well as cat5 cables being a thing of the past with everyone in an office using WIFI. 20 years have past and the article mentions people are printing now more than ever.
Kind of sad. My guess is countries like India and China are much richer now with office equipment which they did not have in 1997 even if we do print a little less individually.
If you can figure out how to debug IE 6 CSS code so it looks pretty and works flawless among all browsers then you are a God. You may loose your hair in the process. Also as a regular user it would be nice to figure out how to outdo the formatting errors in MS Word on my resume. I started over with a template and I have to make fonts a different size in certain parts so they all look the same size throughout ?! I am not kidding on that one. Each version of Word renders it differently so HR thinks I am a retard if they use Word 2010 which shows the correct font sizes but not on 2016. This is my third resume redo this decade too because of other horrible formatting issues.
Slashdot Mirror
Come on Firefox must usage AGILE!
I may have not misread your last sentence, but it is also not true. The 1800X uses about 35%-40% more power than the 7700K. Go check any review where they actually measure the power draw.
Video above. Wattage of of 7700K is slightly less.
As you can see at idle the i7 770K is 1.5 whole watt less than the Ryzen. When cranked up AMD wins in the AutoCad test in power consumption over Intel. In torture loop in the end Intel wins but AMD runs cooler.
I may add Tomshardware has been accused for 15 years now of being in the pockets of Nvidia and Intel and many would say biased in the link above.
They are pretty close as AMD measures power consumption differently. Some tests AMD is ahead. Go look at the crappy FX series? I am no AMD fanboy and the FX series and my underwhelming Phenom II that I had before it made me switch to Intel. AMD fired all the good architects last decade to cut costs and brought in H1b1 to do the job. Big mistake. FX bulldozer was terrible!
But anyway in the past decade it was ATI graphics that kept them afloat after screwing up their CPUs. Now we see the opposite and I hope they remain in business.
Do an honest survey of multiple tests reported on internet sites. Ryzen's base clock is lower, ryzen has lower IPC, ryzen can't be overclocked as far whether on air, water, or LN2.
AMD has greatly improved performance, so much so that in very heavily multi-threaded applications where AMD's core count advantage can be used, AMD is faster on about half of the applications. Good for AMD, I like seeing the company successful. Nonetheless, the Ryzen line is not as good as Intel's products.
I disagree as not as good.
4 cores for an expensive CPU is not a good product in 2017. Again I say this as an Intel user if I were to buy today. Google threadripper and also google the i7 6800 series which perform about as bad in games and worse than the lower core i7 7700K for IPC per core. I don't see people saying the i7 6850 sucks comments or they are not good? Sure both Ryzen and a i7 6900/6800 can do the heavy workloads and game. Ryzen is half the cost of these exotic intel CPUs.
I guess it is the definition of good. I view them as different markets. For the low and high end AMD wins while the 7700K wins for people who just game. This also begs the question who just buys an i7 for gaming? It was meant as a workhorse. The i5 and Ryzen R5 is quite competitive. Gamers forget it is the GPU almost always rather than the CPU for the bottleneck.
My PC right now running Win10 pro has 1600 threads and 131 processes with just Chrome with 5 tabs, Outlook, several word documents and a single Excel file. I think the case for more cores is becoming more and more important for user experience as even my phone as more cores than the i7 7700K.
Keep in mind Intel OCed the i7 7700K waaay overboard out of fear of AMD. It gets up to 90C easily without liquid cooling at 5 ghz for crying out loud! Also the first reviews of Ryzen had ram at 2600 mhz and had bios issues.
The silicon used on Ryzen is more power efficient and therefore has a limit between 3.8 ghz and 4.2 ghz. Basically a Ryzen 1800X is an 8 core 16 thread i7 4790K Haswell. It is not that far behind and of courtse a Ryzen 1800x will cream an i7 7700k for multithreaded performance with no threadripper.
FYI I am typing this on an i7 4770K OC to 4.0 ghz and see no reason to upgrade as it is fast enough so I am no AMD fanboy or even use their CPUs at the moment. Sorry AMD Ryzen is most certainly a high end chip prosumer chip as far as I can see and even in games is at least in the same ballpark as Intel. Doom, Crysis 3, and Dues Ex run faster on AMD. True Grand theft auto runs better on Intel which every review and Battlefield 1 but overall. It is a good architecture I can see. If I were to buy a new CPU today I would be an idiot to spend $$$$ on a freaking 4 core cpu in 2017. My phone as more cores
Facepalm .... FYI AMD rehired the Alpha CPU and AthlonXP architect in 2014 and created a brand new architecture from scratch.
Spend 10 seconds and google "Ryzen CPU". Ryzen had embarrased Intel this spring and ran less watts than the i7 7700K. No you did not misread my last sentence.
Seriously watch the video if you are into computers?
This could save doctors a ton of money if this is true. I suppose transcribers are for teenagers and not for raising a family and they should have made better life choices than demand $15/hr?
Even if there are higher error rates you can have 1 real human monitor 50 computer automatized transcriptions where the computer is fairly sure but not 100% certain. Hospitals are always looking for ways to save pennies
Just keep it recorded and have a human review it.
This could cut costs greatly with this automation if it is true. Why pay 50 transcribers when you can pay 1 for a reduced wage since demand will now be lower and have the computer do the work for free?
I do not want Mexican poachers in the Gulf of Mexico depleting stock for American fisherman. The government is not the bad guy but rather protecting the property of the fisherman.
And here is where the free market destroys everyone where farmers all together destroy their grass and cattle together in the tragedy of the commons?
This example set in medieval Europe happened frequently. Farmers over fed their cows and when grass became scarce instead of conserving in a panic all agaisn't their self interests quickly outdid each other trying to eat as much grass as they can and worry to screw the other guy.
We have Canadian Cod disaster after 17 years it still has and probably never will recover.
You assume people are rational actors. This whole shareholder first only think about the next quarter worry later puts pressure to follow the tragedy of the commons example above. This is where government needs to come up.
When I lived in Alaska I was warned DO NOT FISH. To protect the salmon a police officer would arrest my me and son for freaking fishing but they did so because of fish stock that benefited everyone.
"The United States needs to show it is serious about protecting sustainable fisheries and international rule of law." Right. Change that to protecting its own interests, and international rule of law where it benefits self. As history has shown time and again.
So, please, don't try to play just and rightful, it has not worked for America for many decades.
Of course we are. Canadians do the same as do the Japanese. It's the job of our governments to do what is right for the citizens with the exception of tech workers of course :-)
But, governments like Canada and the US do so for good reason. Not to help pump up the shareprices of Sunkist Tuna, but also to prevent a disaster like the Canadian Cod Industry from poachers. 17 years later they still are not back! Other predators came in that eat younger Cod. It will never come back probably as a result.
It is bad when you have illegal poachers in your country ruining the economy for everyone else, but imagine a foreign entity coming in with fishing nets that are miles long and killing mass amounts of fish? Worse cut nets drag all over the world for years killing non stop which is why these so called libtard snowflake environmentalists want to ban them.
So yes countries have a national interests to protect their resources from foreign poachers. Canada and the US had fights too over salmon, but conservation is one of the reasons as both countries loose if all the salmon are gone or become economically difficult to get.
Anyway I wish Redhat would have bought Java and made native compilers with native heavyweight gui methods but who am I kidding?
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. We had native, heavyweight components in Java (the original AWT), but they caused major maintenance and cross-platform behavior problems. Swing was the answer, and is far superior.
IT SUCKED? Shoot I remember at Manhattan community college sitting on a Pentium III 450 mhz beast (expensive at the time and very shiny and new wishing I had something that good at home) and making a Hello World in AWT. 1 minute to load?! No really 1 freaking minute while the disk spun for eternity. Lord can you imagine a complex program like Quicken load on such machines written in java??
It was dark and hard to read on the 14 inch monitors at the time with a different font and button style than Windows NT 4.0 apps running in the background. It was not usable and offered no integrated feel. In 2006 when I finished my degree I played with Java again in a real course and Java 5 was new and exciting which had generics (funny C# had them for half decade already) and Sun put same lame styling like metal and motif feel but it still was horrible. I did this because I was a typical slashdot anti Windows zealout. I regret that as those who took the c# class had programming jobs :-(
Oh well.
Sun just gave up on Java and so have I. It is time to move on and consider it like COBOL for legacy mainframe and heavy server apps written 18 years ago when it was cool. Unfortunately C# has over taken it for most apps but we have some smaller ones like Python at least.
I have some vague recollections that, some implementation files (not headers) looked ah identical, some people argued it's the obvious implementation others it was lifted. To me it looked that it was heavenly inspired by someone that read the source
Then all of SQL should be banned likely someone else wrote it first. Wine should be banned as they do use the same implementation (not same files). Regardless it was a clean room implementation and no files were copied similiar with the Sco scandal a decade ago who tried to pull the same thing on Linux.
You should review Oracle open source contributions and compare to those made by Microsoft before talking about "threats".
About c#, well, I think it's the other way around as it was designed as a Java clone when the justice ruled 15 years ago that "Microsoft's Java" could not have Java in the name. They only left one feature off when implementing it: cross-platformness.
The reason I typed that is Oracle just made WINE and SAMBA a potential liability and illegal in their lawsuit agaisn't Android. What Google did was use a clean room implementation of Java by the Apache project. NO SOURCE CODE FROM ORACLE was used. Oracle sued saying they owned the API meaning for example if I write a book and you write one I can say I own your book because we both used the word "the"?!
So now MariaDB can be killed even if all the MySQL code is removed. Linux and FreeBSD would not exist anymore either as bell labs could say LOOK IT HAS CAT! We own the syntax.
This might be the death of all free software. Thankfully Microsoft has not sued wine or Samba yet and Oracle with MariaDB but thanks to that court they effectively changed laws through judicial activism to expand just because they are butt hurt their java phone failed. Boo!
This is far more dangerous than someone changing standards or making tying arrangements with vendors. We will see the result. I imagine SecureSH could be illegal next to as it uses telnet commands. This is just insanity and gee thanks Oracle. Thanks alot you greedy bastard.
I would like MS to make a Linux distro. It couldn't be any worse than Debian or Fedora or any other Linux distro that uses systemd, which I find are buggier and lower quality than even Windows ME was. If they made a reliable, systemd-free Linux distro, I'd seriously consider using it, and I might even consider paying for it were it good enough. If they bundle .NET Core and make it work seamlessly, I'd be very interested in using it.
I don't know if this is a troll but they kind of do. Ubuntu for Windows is Ubuntu without SystemD .... but runs on Windows :-/
Not a real option but cute toy thing to run some scripts. ALso .NET core 2.0 was just released and does run on Linux. I always preferred FreeBSD if I have do unix like stuff. I find handbook and docs amazing and a step ahead of Linux which tries to make gui and friendly tools to do things behind the scenes. FreeBSD has great long term support and even features lacking in Linux or are behind. ZFS, dtrace, jails, and for awhile it's TCP/IP stack was better too as Apache used to cream Linux easily until kernel 2.6.
Kind of like Microsoft's embrace-extend-extinguish, I think the Linux community has made a big mistake to give Red Hat that much control with Systemd.
Actually Microsoft has done an IBM like about face with open source and standards. I dare say they're even not evil anymore as they lost to Android and open standards from what I see so far.
Oracle and Redhat have done most damage. I hate Java now which I was a fan last decade. Sun ruined it and Oracle made a pact with the devil.
Who favors copyrighting whole freaking APIs? Oracle. Who has sued open source developers? Oracle. Who buys and forks things like MySQL? Oracle. Who changes standards? Redhat. Who makes things unpredictable when changing standards? Redhat.
Now who has opensourced proprietary APIs like .NET core? Microsoft. Who contributes to Freebsd and Linux for their VMs and adds provisioning for them in their cloud? Microsoft. Who has made their once proprietary development software and added Android vm and iOS support? Microsoft.
I think in 2017 we can safely say changing and extinguish standards is not Microsoft but Oracle and Redhat! I am not a fan boy nor work for MS. Just am frustrated and prefer not to live in the past anymore as Java is a could have been
You mean like .NET?
Yes this is slashdot which views MS as the devil, but c#.net is what Java could have been if it were not for Sun Microsystems ineptitude and managerial incompetence.
I hate Oracle more than Microsoft and view Oracle as the number one threat to open source. Not Microsoft as they have just released .NET core 2.0 to open source and are now being friendly to other platforms.
Anyway I wish Redhat would have bought Java and made native compilers with native heavyweight gui methods but who am I kidding?
I would release a distro called Gnu is Now Unix
Yeah. Windows is behind in that area for sure. They never recovered fromt he failed WinFS filesystem which was supposed to have this in Longhorn.
FreeBSD with ZFS is amazing to say the least
Look up volume shadow copy? With Windows 7 you can make a volume snapshot and revert back to it.
Not to mention he wanted "to play".
When I do this I make a copy or play with a test project. Lord help him if he has to go into System Administration after he losses his job over this. I have a raid 0 on my system. Dangerous? YEP. But it is fast as hell for goofing around with virtual machines. Do I have anything critical? Nope ISO files are on oldschool mechanical disks and so is software storage. My documents are on a regular disk and backup up to a cloud solution. If it fails? Beh. Just rebuild the raid 0 and the VM's as I got all the important things on more reliable storage. As a computer operator owner here more people ...especially TECH people ... should do proper care and maintenance just like with their cars.
There may very well be a user interface problem with the product. I don't want to blame the victim.
However, this guy was going to lose his work someday. Maybe it would be a hard drive failure. Maybe a corruption. House fire. Who knows? The point is eventually he was going to have data loss because he doesn't back up. Microsoft may very well be the direct cause here, but this guy was NOT following any kind of best practices.
I bet if he replaced Microsoft Code with Emacs or Vi this story would be marked as flamebait and not posted. But since it is from Microsoft it got posted as this is Slashdot.
I agree and tell my colleagues now to avoid slashdot for non biased opinions sadly. It is quite ridiculous
I am getting tired of this rhetoric as Slashdot seems to be the I.T. equivalent of FoxNews with a bias. I even submitted a story last week on 'LaTex' now coming to MS Word in Office 365 which is one of the complaints I have read here for 20 years and thought some would be happy to hear. I got marked for Spam??
If you do not like Microsoft products do not use them. No one if forcing you. But some of us do use them and they are prevalent in the I.T. field
I bet in Emacs I can delete things too or Eclipse or any other modern environment. Like what others say have a backup and no "online" storage like RAID or cloud solutions ARE NOT BACKUP as you can delete things online. I am not paid by Microsoft, nor am I a fanatic. Infact I used to be heavily anti MS back in the day hence my name. I just want to see rational people and stories for a change!
I've spent 20+ years in the transactional / EDPP print industry helping to support an operation that produces 300+M pages of output annually with equipment handling over 1400 unique pages / minute. I've debugged PostScript jobs in excess of 2GB in size and over 1M pages, and PDFs of similar scope and scale. Worked, advised, and consulted with the key leaders in the industry including Adobe, Xerox, Oce, Konika-Minolta, Kodak, HP, Xeikon. My point to the street cred is that here's what I'm seeing...
Statement print is not dead, but is slowly and steady declining. E-delivery of statements, especially through secure trusted third-party systems such as Dropbox, is enabling this transformation. The area that will continue to see print is in durable copy requirements. Right now physical media (paper, plastic, etc.) is the only one that can meet the specific needs of this industry segment. Physical print is also the only proven medium for ultra-long-term archiveability. Yes, there is millennium disc, and similar technology. However, the printed page only requires two things to interpret it - the ability to view the document in some manner (e.g. light), and knowledge on how to decode the symbology. Everything else requires more steps, and a higher level up the technology curve.
That isn't to say that we should abandon e-delivery for physical print. There are a large number of transient items that e-print is more than perfectly acceptable for - including most monthly/annual bills and statements, receipts for most items, etc. And having an electronic version for searchability just makes a lot of sense in the modern age - books, congressional bills, executive orders, etc. But, the final, unmuteable, version should be on acid-free paper or parchment.
As for packaging print - it will never die. Not until someone can deliver my Honeynut Cheerios electronically - there will still be a need for this technology.
Regarding the OP - Xerox has had two major problems... converting their lab work into sell-able items. Xerox PARC invented PostScript (which beget PDF through project Carousel at Adobe), GUI, Ethernet, and many of the other inventions that made modern technology use able. 2) They have a really, really hard time keeping their equipment up to current technology, outsourced all their engineering. Not just shipped it overseas, OUTSOURCED IT!, and refuse to let new technology cannibalize market-share from their existing installed base. For example, PostScript (initially called Interpress) was found to possibly "compete" with their LCDS and Metacode languages. Rather than add a third, they deep-sixed it. John and Chuck took it, started Adobe (name of the creek behind John's house) and it became Adobe's first product. Xerox attempted to play catch-up, but never could. Eventually LCDS, Metacode (and IBM's AFP) started to become more and more relegated to narrower and narrower workflows as PostScript and PDF have taken over the marketspace.
Good luck to Xerox in getting their cranium extricated from their arse. But, I expect them to end up much like Kodak (which invented digital photography)
Fred in IT
Yeah in 1997 when I read PCWorld (yes you had to go to the magazine section in those days besides chips & dip which eventually became slashdot) they had articles on how by 2001 the paperless office would be here as well as cat5 cables being a thing of the past with everyone in an office using WIFI. 20 years have past and the article mentions people are printing now more than ever.
Kind of sad. My guess is countries like India and China are much richer now with office equipment which they did not have in 1997 even if we do print a little less individually.
Playstations are for kids.
I disagree.
If you can figure out how to debug IE 6 CSS code so it looks pretty and works flawless among all browsers then you are a God. You may loose your hair in the process. Also as a regular user it would be nice to figure out how to outdo the formatting errors in MS Word on my resume. I started over with a template and I have to make fonts a different size in certain parts so they all look the same size throughout ?! I am not kidding on that one. Each version of Word renders it differently so HR thinks I am a retard if they use Word 2010 which shows the correct font sizes but not on 2016. This is my third resume redo this decade too because of other horrible formatting issues.
God bless anyone that can debug that nightmare.