1. Thread and discussion in question is about desktops (in particular, in schools) not servers. I agree you shouldn't be hot-plugging drives into servers.
2. Where? Not in the latest and greatest, RedHat 7.2. Not anywhere as far as I can tell.
As a newbie, I don't want to do any of the following: 1. struggle to mount cdrom, floppy, USB drive, or other removable media. 2. Be told that I can't add things to the menu because I'm not 'root'. 3. Have data partitions on the boot drive that don't automount at startup. etc etc etc.
Even the most current distributions of Linux suffer from these problems, so why do Linux people keep insisting that you must be dumb to stay with Windows? It seems that in many cases, Windows is the only avaiable OS that does what they want!
My mom is NEVER going to use a command line. Ever. So if you can't make it work in GUI, forget about getting her to switch, and stop calling her "stupid" "a sheep" or "clueless" for staying with Windows. She's made choice to use the best OS for her (the same way you have) monopoly or not.
Thus, Windows is doing everything that the majority of users need, and thus is doing a good job. Just because use tech savvy people (who, BY THE WAY have different needs/wants from our software, and we are also in the vast minority) want more out of our operating systems and don't necessarily like what Microsoft gives us, doesn't mean that for the vast majority of the people it doesn't work perfectly fine for them
Not only does it work fine, it frequently works BETTER than the free alternative.
I recently had a very interesting thread going about USB hard drives. Under Windows 2000, plugging in such a drive assigns a letter automatically and the drive can be accessed under "My Computer".
Under Linux, you must use no less than 3 commandline commands to find out the location of the drive and issue the command to mount it. (assuming you have a recent kernel with USB compiled in). If you reboot it, it will not automount, unless you are savvy enough to edit etc/fstab.
My complaint was that this sucks, and there is no reason that it shouldn't happen automatically. I received a bunch of responses explaining why it was a GOOD thing that it didn't happen automatically. I argued that AT MINIMUM the OS should throw up a dialog asking if the drive should be mounted, and where. Don't see how that causes harm to even the biggest Linux wizard.
I can see both sides of the argument, and I'm sure there are 100 technical reasons why you wouldn't want your drive mounted automatically, but remember - all the end user sees is that their hard drive works automatically in Windows and not in Linux.
Finally, in no way does making it easier for the uninitiated somehow screw it up for the power user - such a dialog box would work fine for both.
Linux users like to hammer on people for helping MS extend their monopoly, calling them sheep, without considering that maybe they aren't offering anything better to them. An end user should not have to read documentation in order to use a hard drive, on ANY operating system.
P.S. This does not seem to be a difficult thing to program, correct me if I'm wrong. If we can have 20 different text editors, it would seem trivial to write a little widget to detect and automount new drives.
Each of which is, you guessed it, a Winmodem! Believe it or not, most PCMCIA modems ARE Winmodems. I found this unfortunate fact while shopping for a new modem for my laptop recently, at the local CompUSA, 8 out of 9 cards were Winmodems - the one hardware based modem was over $100.
Even generic, no-name PCMCIA hardware-based modems seem to be at least $50 or so.
Unix locks the drive door when you mount removable media (if possible, of course - most floppy drives don't support it) because it doesn't want you to eject something that's still mounted, lest you cause filesystem corruption. (Not an issue for read-only media like CDROMs, but there nonetheless.) This issue is solveable - the hw driver should detect you pushing the eject button and notify userspace to attempt to unmount, then eject if successful. 3 hits within say 2 seconds should trigger 'force umount' mode, perhaps, which can cause processes to get their file descriptors unceremoniously closed - or, if they have mmapped pages from the fs (text or otherwise), page faults become segfaults.
Windows seems to handle this 'problem' without incident.
Come on... is there ANY reason that the mounting drives doesn't/shouldn't occur automatically under Linux? I can't think of one good reason that the end user wouldn't want it that way.
That doesn't mean advanced users wouldn't have access to the 'mount' command if they wanted. But no one has given me one good reason that Linux doesn't scan for and automount drives.
Are you saying that having to type a bunch of command line stuff just to use a drive that's already in the system is a GOOD thing?
You shouldn't have had to reboot - just load the usb-storage.o module and the drive partition(s) should show up in/proc/partitions. Then you just mount 'em or whatever....
Well, thanks for the attempt at helping, but you're kind of making my point.
I'm a total newbie, so:
1) I have no idea how to "load modules"
2)I have no idea what 'proc/partitions' is
3)I don't know how to 'just mount 'em or whatever'.
It is very disappointing that this kind of command line mumbo jumbo is still necessary when using a bleeding edge new distribution of Linux. Is it really programatically so difficult to check for available partitions and mount them automatically on startup?
I'm no technophobe, but it's this kind of nonsense that stops people from using Linux. Period.
Can anyone comment on the state of USB hard drives in Linux? Under RedHat 7.2 I plugged in a Fat32 formatted USB external hard drive and rebooted, but nothing happened. This kind of thing needs to happen automatically...
Re:problem with large storage mp3 players
on
80 Gig MP3 Player
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· Score: 2
I just bought a Genica hard drive based player. You can create winamp or winamp compatible playlists on the PC, and then choose among those playlists on the portable device, eliminating the problem of how to find the music you like on such a large device.
Nobody is willing to think about doing anything different, more useful, or more ergonomic right now. The main driving force driving Linux UI development is "lets make it look like Windows!" which is a horrendously bad move. Instead of giving Linux its own face, its own appeal, and its own distinct look, we're playing Poor-Man's Explorer with X11. Instead of putting our own talents to work, making something useful for us, we're playing second fiddle to a third rate design by copying it.
It is shameful and speaks volumes about the moderation system that the parent post has been moderated "flamebait". Take a moment to read the parent post and think about it. This IS a major problem for Gnome/KDE - the goal should not be to emulate Windows, the goal should be to EXCEED Windows.
Actually, I believe that Xerox did NOT have overlapping windows, it only appeared to. In the book "Infinite Loop" by Michael Malone, it talks about how someone at Apple Computer (Bill Atkinson? I can't remember) had such a difficult time duplicating what he thought he saw at Xerox.
In reality, it was very difficult to duplicate, because it did not yet exist. Atkinson (Apple) ended up creating the algorithims to do overlapping windows on his own. At some point he was in a car accident, and there was alot of concern, because at that point, he was the only one in the world that had the knowledge.
So the question is, why is an entry level 600MHz iMac *so* expensive if the screen, hard drive, memory, video, etc, are all commodity parts?
Congratulations, you've discovered that Apple hardware is overpriced! Welcome to the club.
In all seriousness, you raise an important point. Apple would love nothing more than for you to believe that the iMac somehow uses premium components, when in reality they are composed of ALL commodity parts, save the motherboard.
Trying to justify the high priced hardware is impossible. Just think of it this way - it's the price of using MacOS. If paying the extra couple hundred bucks isn't worth it to get macos for you, don't. If it is, do.
If Warner thinks a DVD is software, why do they get so mad when I want to make a backup copy of one? Oh, that's right, they want it both ways.
If Warner wins on this they should be required to replace any scratched, lost, or otherwise unplayable DVD for the cost of the media only. ($1). BY LAW.
Just wanted to point out that this article is about Linux replacing Unix servers, not Linux replacing Windows desktops.
I don't think it's news to anyone that Linux can be used as a replacement for commercial Unix. It would be news if this article was about Amazon replacing Windows desktops with Linux (which it's not).
It tells me that Linux isn't installable by the "mainstream" public yet. Of course, neither is Windows.
Whatever. I've done about 20 installs of Windows 2000, and 19 times out of 20 I've walked back an hour later to find a fully working system. It is literally a "put in cd, reboot, click install" type of proposition.
This is simply not the case in Linux.
Besides, the REAL point, is not "installability" but "usability". You only install ONCE - being able to use the system productively on a daily basis is another matter entirely.
Linux is good for lots of people. People that use lots of plug and play devices, and expect it to work, like it does in Windows 2000, would not be pleased with Linux.
Wil's comments about Linux are very telling. Here we have a self-described "geek" who can't/won't use Linux as his daily OS. Not because his apps aren't there, or because he wants to play games, but because it's TOO HARD to make it work properly.
He's clearly no idiot, people. What does that tell you?
I think you overestimate the power of Steve. As of now, Macintosh users can't even access the DVD-ROM content of most discs (including Episode I), despite the fact that Apple did huge cross promotion for the film. He either doesn't have the power, or doesn't care.
I just found out that even though I own the Episode I dvd (which I use in a standalone player), I won't be able to access the trailer on starwars.com, since I don't have a DVDROM in a computer running Windows. (scam, but that's another post)
Can anyone suggest a website that will have the trailer besides starwars.com? I assume that someone will save it from starwars.com and post it elsewhere...
Correction...NO hacking required! Apple's FAQ states that when in Firewire disk mode you can transfer mp3s, no need to zip them. Also, you can use iTunes to transfer mp3s between multiple machines, you just have to enter manual mode.
Unfortunately, the iPod can't PLAY the MP3s that are in data mode, only those that are in music mode. MP3 files can be stored on the "data" portion, but won't be recognized by the player. That means the ones you're playing can't be copied, and the ones you can copy can't be played. And that sucks.
No, this is wrong. iPod supports copying mp3 files between computers using iTunes AND firewire disk mode. The FAQ clearly states that when the iPod is set to transfer mp3s in manual mode you can drag and drop songs from to iPod to a computer.
Yes - BUT the iPod can't PLAY the MP3s that are in data mode, only those that are in music mode. That means the ones you're playing can't be copied, and the ones you can copy can't be played. Important distinction.
Wow, do you shop at the same Best Buy I do? The door bouncer at mine is a Samoan guy that looks to be about 300 pounds! Each time I walk past him, he folows me into the parking lot for about 50 feet before turning and going back into the store.
Re:It's actually a Toshiba PC-Card HD, not a 2.5"
on
Apple releases iPod
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· Score: 2
If that's true, this was a VERY poor design decision. This could have been a $150 device if they'd used a regular laptop drive.
I sent a Powerbook 5300 that I bought from a friend for $50 to Apple under their REA program for that model, and it came back with new case plastics, hinges, and a new motherboard. The computer was about 6 years old at the time. They didn't have to do that, but they did.
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2. Where? Not in the latest and greatest, RedHat 7.2. Not anywhere as far as I can tell.
As a newbie, I don't want to do any of the following: 1. struggle to mount cdrom, floppy, USB drive, or other removable media. 2. Be told that I can't add things to the menu because I'm not 'root'. 3. Have data partitions on the boot drive that don't automount at startup. etc etc etc.
Even the most current distributions of Linux suffer from these problems, so why do Linux people keep insisting that you must be dumb to stay with Windows? It seems that in many cases, Windows is the only avaiable OS that does what they want!
My mom is NEVER going to use a command line. Ever. So if you can't make it work in GUI, forget about getting her to switch, and stop calling her "stupid" "a sheep" or "clueless" for staying with Windows. She's made choice to use the best OS for her (the same way you have) monopoly or not.
Not only does it work fine, it frequently works BETTER than the free alternative.
I recently had a very interesting thread going about USB hard drives. Under Windows 2000, plugging in such a drive assigns a letter automatically and the drive can be accessed under "My Computer".
Under Linux, you must use no less than 3 commandline commands to find out the location of the drive and issue the command to mount it. (assuming you have a recent kernel with USB compiled in). If you reboot it, it will not automount, unless you are savvy enough to edit etc/fstab.
My complaint was that this sucks, and there is no reason that it shouldn't happen automatically. I received a bunch of responses explaining why it was a GOOD thing that it didn't happen automatically. I argued that AT MINIMUM the OS should throw up a dialog asking if the drive should be mounted, and where. Don't see how that causes harm to even the biggest Linux wizard.
I can see both sides of the argument, and I'm sure there are 100 technical reasons why you wouldn't want your drive mounted automatically, but remember - all the end user sees is that their hard drive works automatically in Windows and not in Linux.
Finally, in no way does making it easier for the uninitiated somehow screw it up for the power user - such a dialog box would work fine for both.
Linux users like to hammer on people for helping MS extend their monopoly, calling them sheep, without considering that maybe they aren't offering anything better to them. An end user should not have to read documentation in order to use a hard drive, on ANY operating system.
P.S. This does not seem to be a difficult thing to program, correct me if I'm wrong. If we can have 20 different text editors, it would seem trivial to write a little widget to detect and automount new drives.
Each of which is, you guessed it, a Winmodem! Believe it or not, most PCMCIA modems ARE Winmodems. I found this unfortunate fact while shopping for a new modem for my laptop recently, at the local CompUSA, 8 out of 9 cards were Winmodems - the one hardware based modem was over $100.
Even generic, no-name PCMCIA hardware-based modems seem to be at least $50 or so.
Windows seems to handle this 'problem' without incident.
That doesn't mean advanced users wouldn't have access to the 'mount' command if they wanted. But no one has given me one good reason that Linux doesn't scan for and automount drives.
Are you saying that having to type a bunch of command line stuff just to use a drive that's already in the system is a GOOD thing?
demonstrates that you don't know how to use
Linux, no less, no more.
Uh huh - but I don't have to "know how to use Windows" in order for it to work, do I? I just plug it in and there it is.
Well, thanks for the attempt at helping, but you're kind of making my point.
I'm a total newbie, so:
1) I have no idea how to "load modules"
2)I have no idea what 'proc/partitions' is
3)I don't know how to 'just mount 'em or whatever'.
It is very disappointing that this kind of command line mumbo jumbo is still necessary when using a bleeding edge new distribution of Linux. Is it really programatically so difficult to check for available partitions and mount them automatically on startup?
I'm no technophobe, but it's this kind of nonsense that stops people from using Linux. Period.
Can anyone comment on the state of USB hard drives in Linux? Under RedHat 7.2 I plugged in a Fat32 formatted USB external hard drive and rebooted, but nothing happened. This kind of thing needs to happen automatically...
I just bought a Genica hard drive based player. You can create winamp or winamp compatible playlists on the PC, and then choose among those playlists on the portable device, eliminating the problem of how to find the music you like on such a large device.
Actually, classic MacOS always had partitions too, they were just hidden from the user.
It is shameful and speaks volumes about the moderation system that the parent post has been moderated "flamebait". Take a moment to read the parent post and think about it. This IS a major problem for Gnome/KDE - the goal should not be to emulate Windows, the goal should be to EXCEED Windows.
In reality, it was very difficult to duplicate, because it did not yet exist. Atkinson (Apple) ended up creating the algorithims to do overlapping windows on his own. At some point he was in a car accident, and there was alot of concern, because at that point, he was the only one in the world that had the knowledge.
Congratulations, you've discovered that Apple hardware is overpriced! Welcome to the club.
In all seriousness, you raise an important point. Apple would love nothing more than for you to believe that the iMac somehow uses premium components, when in reality they are composed of ALL commodity parts, save the motherboard.
Trying to justify the high priced hardware is impossible. Just think of it this way - it's the price of using MacOS. If paying the extra couple hundred bucks isn't worth it to get macos for you, don't. If it is, do.
If Warner wins on this they should be required to replace any scratched, lost, or otherwise unplayable DVD for the cost of the media only. ($1). BY LAW.
I don't think it's news to anyone that Linux can be used as a replacement for commercial Unix. It would be news if this article was about Amazon replacing Windows desktops with Linux (which it's not).
I don't want to do 'foundation work', anymore than I want to understand the ins and outs of an automobile engine. I just want to drive my car.
Whatever. I've done about 20 installs of Windows 2000, and 19 times out of 20 I've walked back an hour later to find a fully working system. It is literally a "put in cd, reboot, click install" type of proposition.
This is simply not the case in Linux.
Besides, the REAL point, is not "installability" but "usability". You only install ONCE - being able to use the system productively on a daily basis is another matter entirely.
Linux is good for lots of people. People that use lots of plug and play devices, and expect it to work, like it does in Windows 2000, would not be pleased with Linux.
He's clearly no idiot, people. What does that tell you?
I think you overestimate the power of Steve. As of now, Macintosh users can't even access the DVD-ROM content of most discs (including Episode I), despite the fact that Apple did huge cross promotion for the film. He either doesn't have the power, or doesn't care.
Can anyone suggest a website that will have the trailer besides starwars.com? I assume that someone will save it from starwars.com and post it elsewhere...
Unfortunately, the iPod can't PLAY the MP3s that are in data mode, only those that are in music mode. MP3 files can be stored on the "data" portion, but won't be recognized by the player. That means the ones you're playing can't be copied, and the ones you can copy can't be played. And that sucks.
Yes - BUT the iPod can't PLAY the MP3s that are in data mode, only those that are in music mode. That means the ones you're playing can't be copied, and the ones you can copy can't be played. Important distinction.
Wow, do you shop at the same Best Buy I do? The door bouncer at mine is a Samoan guy that looks to be about 300 pounds! Each time I walk past him, he folows me into the parking lot for about 50 feet before turning and going back into the store.
If that's true, this was a VERY poor design decision. This could have been a $150 device if they'd used a regular laptop drive.
I sent a Powerbook 5300 that I bought from a friend for $50 to Apple under their REA program for that model, and it came back with new case plastics, hinges, and a new motherboard. The computer was about 6 years old at the time. They didn't have to do that, but they did.