Realize that many commercial UN*Xen licensed the MKS Toolkit source code in the late 80's/early 90's in order to speed their development towards POSIX compliance.
OS/390 (formerly OpenMVS) had a UNIX layer that was co-written by IBM and MKS, re-using much of the TK code. Though I suspect that much of that product has been superceded by another UNIX-like offering on Big Iron...:-)
If I were ever forced to work full-time with Windows (thankfully I a free man at the moment), the first thing to get installed would be cygwin or MKS or similar.
See now, that's funny. When I left my second last job (where Tim Bray had been my direct manager), I ended up at this small company to be their "web application consultant". They set me up with a MS-Windows box, something I hadn't used since pre-Chicago days, and I asked how the hell I, a UN*X person, would get work done?
They told me where I could get the install for the other product they produce: the MKS Toolkit. Yep, MKS and Open Text were hq'd in the same damned building...
Now I work in a completely different part of town...five buildings away.
But us salaried employees are going to get nothing in return for trading in what's left of our life so someone else in the company above us can make money.
But...have you asked about compensation of some form? If you don't ask, a money-tight company (or insensitive boss) won't think to offer. However, if you ask they just might see your point...
I'm not saying that it's right that you are in a position of having to ask. But if you don't ask, then you won't know for sure that the above statement is true. If you do ask and they say "no", then see those "Q-U-I-T" threads above;-).
They shouldn't have to research software, because choosing software isn't their job (unless they teach that "computer course", of course).
I do understand where you are coming from, but I don't completely agree with the above statement.
Computers are used in many different areas for many different purposes. I don't want my child to think of computers as having something to do with "computer class". I want my child to see computers being used in Art, in Geography, in Accouting, etc...
I do agree that computers should not be used to replace the Basics.
Most schoolboards (and governments) in the Western World have mandated a wider use of computers in the classroom. They have not, however, given teachers the tools necessary to figure out what "computers in the classroom" means...so they mainly turn to word processing and elementary data gathering (spreadsheets)...it is here that the teacher finds themselves caught.
I completely agree that a particular software package should not be mandated. I don't want my child to think that there is one way to do things on a computer. But I do back teachers for requiring some computer usage in their non-computer courses.
My question to you is: what is your purpose in leaving?
If you are leaving because you are being exploited, then great; do what you would normally do when not happy: either leave now or find another job first and then resign.
But what is the point of the mass exodus? Are you trying to hurt the company? If so, then I see that as a big problem.
Are you trying to go off and start a new business with said folks? Then I suggest you take a measured approach: develop a business plan, get some contacts and/or contracts, possibly have a couple leave now to focus on the business while the remainders stay at the current (paying) jobs until there is stability in the new place.
If you aren't trying to go somewhere else with the group, then I really don't see the point to the exodus.
A bunch of posts here say "don't leave 'cause that'll look bad in an interview". I don't buy that at all myself. However, if you lead an exodus with no real (business) purpose then that WOULD look bad for sure.
No, teachers don't say exactly that. But it is implied.
The fact is, the majority of teachers don't know any more or less w.r.t. computers and software than Joe Sixpack. They have enough troubles finding time to keep up with their areas of expertise and marking. Chasing after alternative software resources just doesn't prioritize well. And school boards all over the world shirked their responsibilities to provide teachers with up-to-date materials LONG ago.
The teacher will state that the work needs to be provided in MS-Word (assuming a soft-copy is being handed in). They will not insist that you have it at home, but of course the "labs" are only open twice a week, in the mornings, for 10 minutes (or something like that) so your Johnny is the one who added the "I need Word" part.
Don't always fly off the handle at those teachers. I do agree that they have their faults, but time and money (ha!) for researching software is not readily available to them.
9am? Yikes. I used to get up sometimes before the big three started broadcasting. Test patterns...
Then the university programs would come on for one or two half-hour shows. There'd be lectures on dinosaurs, chemistry, ancient art, archeology, religion, Egyptian architectures, etc...
Then, if I remember correctly, Scooby-Doo would start off the morning line up (the real Scooby-Doo, not that new-age Scrappy crap, and DON'T get me started on Gadzookie...).
Superfriends, Laugh Olympics, and of course the classic Schoolhouse Rock fill-ins...conjunction junction, what's your function?
I never really liked the Smurfs; guess I was starting to outgrow cartoons then. But I never missed an episode of Dungeons and Dragons. Always wanted that bow...
Back then, shows were real. Now we've got Artifical T.V.... my wife says that Jenna won.
If my open source DB goes down, I crap my pants and hope to keep my job.
Oh please! If you throw 1/2 as much money at one of a number of support organizations, you'd at least as guaranteed of the same uptime and probably able to push for enhancements that you won't get otherwise.
Would people mind if audio or video had been changed?
That should be mod'ed (+2 Funny), right?
I mean, c'mon! Do you know how often it is that a reporter is sent into the field to interview with two cameras?
The answer: very rarely.
So how is it then that during the interview you see the interviewee answering the question and the interviewer nodding with <sarcasm>deep interest</sarcasm> ??
How is "editing" a video that much different from slapping a couple of images together?
Now, on the flip side, I do agree that if there is a stated policy of having to declare such enhancements prior to submission and/or publishing, then the photographer violated said policy and should be taken to task for it. If he knowingly violated the policy (blatantly ignoring it or whatever), then firing him/her seems quite legitimate especially since it places the entire publisher's integrity at risk.
other desktops have functioning fast local desktops
As Alan Cox points out, I'd rather see someone prove that the wire protocol is the bottleneck in the desktop before we go off and rip it out (or start from scratch again).
Everytime I hear someone say "X really needs to die", they blame the wire protocol. Well, the first step in optimization is to prove that the optimization you plan to do is actually necessary.
I have seen a large number of projects where "blind optimization" involves reworking large chunks of code only to find out that they haven't really solved the real problem.
As one doctor put it to us a few months ago:
"If you think your baby is colicky, she isn't."
And I say that if this is the case, then all of us software developers had better move to Redmond or take up shoe repair.
It is completely possible to run a shop with no (zero, ziltch) MS software. And I don't think that a person's "education" would suffer because they have to use something "different". If that was the case, then all of us who went to University and never once used a Windows/DOS box for any course must be completely unemployable...
Are you saying that in an educational environment, people must learn on the latest-and-greatest? If so, you haven't been paying attention to the state of education in North America in the past 20 years.
The point of my previous post is that the overwhelming majority of people who use MS software never *need* to use "MS software". There are a wide variety of options that will suitably do the job they are looking to do. Oh, there are arguments as to why to choose MS but blanket statements about MS being the "only choice" are false.
99.78% of people licensed for MS Office don't use it to its full potential
94.8% of students will never (or should never) learn enough spreadsheet functionality that they need to be locked into a specific vendor's implementation [generic techniques are a Good Thing...unfortunately most teachers/"professors" have already been locked in themselves]
Nothing in this troll-post says that they have to dump existing apps/machines. There are many businesses that are still running Win95/Win98 and this school can continue using their existing infrastructure (and avoid the [not-yet Universally Required] Upgrade Tax)
I have taught spreadsheets and word processing. I have done so using different packages on different OS's (Mac and Windows mainly). However, I stick as much as possible to generic functionality. The amount that one can do "generically" is quite impressive. I typically have one project where the students use package-specific features so that they can see extra things.
But no one hires someone on the basis that they know how to use MS-Word "Letter Wizard..." (or whatever). If they do hire based on knowledge of specific features...I sure hope they check which specific version the interviewee knows as the specific feature changes from release to release!!!
Lets just ignore for a moment that certain software is only available from microsoft - or at least that there are no comparible products from other supplilers.
Care to name some software that is "only available from microsoft...[with] no comparible[sic] products" ??
It would be a [] huge file... it would have to send all patches of all time
I strongly suspect that it would be smaller than that of, say, Red Hat's RHN since MS is only worried about the OS and a few of its software titles. RHN on the other hand offers thousands of packages.
And even if the list was quite massive, why would it have to resend everything all the time? Why not send a list of the changes since the last time the user downloaded (the client could say "everything since 2003/01/21 08:45:00" or something similar).
If RHN and other upgrades can download a list of packages, why can't MS? They not smart enough? No, the answer is that they don't get enough "feedback" when they do it that way.
During the beta of Win95 they tried this trick and the press was all over them. They realized they made a mistake introducing such a shocking "big brother" utility at the same time that they were releasing such a major product. Instead, MS is beginning to learn that when it goes to violate people's privacy (and rights), it should do things in small increments:
Tightly couple software into the OS
Make s/w upgrades hard for the average user
Create an "upgrade" system that is "easy" and doesn't infringe on users rights.
Release second version of upgrade system (make it mess up less systems)
Release third version of upgrade system (people begin to trust it)
Release fourth version of upgrade system (invade privacy)
Claim piracy is killing jobs in the U.S. (see previous point)
If the game do not sell, LGP is the only one loosing money.
Do you live anywhere near southwestern Ontario? I need snow shovelled from my driveway but the pesky kids in the neighbourhood keep charging me money because they say their time is not free...it costs money.
The only reason work is being outsourced is because it appears cheaper. It is cheaper if your idea of vision has a 90 day window.
Exactly. And these decision makers will be out of decision-making positions (possibly their corporations are out of business) and the remaining decision makers see the folly of their ex-colleagues ways and change. Or they won't and they themselves become ex-colleagues.
Eventually:
Someone realizes the worth of the $55/hr developer and pays for it.
The entire species is wiped out.
The job is truly worth $5/hr and the original decision maker actually earns the bonus he pays himself.
Notice that at no point have I concluded that the job is actually worth $55/hr or $5/hr. It is irrelevant because it is the market that will decide, not the person fighting the change.
Yes, individuals may (will!) get hurt along the way. This is the nature of change. However, change will occur and trying to keep something at the status quo for the sake of the status quo will only lead to greater change (and typically greater harm) further down the road.
Apparently, you don't understand that different countries (cities even) have wholly different economies.
I don't think this is "fucking dumb". Basic economics states that supply and demand will eventually have people paying what a product is worth.
If coding jobs are being shipped to somewhere because it is $5/hr, then that's because the job is truly worth $5/hr. You think if the job was worth $55/hr that they guy living elsewhere wouldn't collect it? Is he generous enough to take a hit solely because he doesn't live in downtown Metropolis(tm) ?
No.
If management moved the job somewhere hoping to save $50/hr, then they will either: (a) be happy with what they get (b) get the work back to people who can give them the quality they want (at they price it is worth).
Management may (or may not) take a hit for their move. The company may (or may not) take a hit for their move.
This is how economics works at the macro level (which is close to the topic of the original post).
Slashdot Mirror
OS/390 (formerly OpenMVS) had a UNIX layer that was co-written by IBM and MKS, re-using much of the TK code. Though I suspect that much of that product has been superceded by another UNIX-like offering on Big Iron... :-)
See now, that's funny. When I left my second last job (where Tim Bray had been my direct manager), I ended up at this small company to be their "web application consultant". They set me up with a MS-Windows box, something I hadn't used since pre-Chicago days, and I asked how the hell I, a UN*X person, would get work done?
They told me where I could get the install for the other product they produce: the MKS Toolkit. Yep, MKS and Open Text were hq'd in the same damned building...
Now I work in a completely different part of town...five buildings away.
the whole wide world ???
But...have you asked about compensation of some form? If you don't ask, a money-tight company (or insensitive boss) won't think to offer. However, if you ask they just might see your point...
I'm not saying that it's right that you are in a position of having to ask. But if you don't ask, then you won't know for sure that the above statement is true. If you do ask and they say "no", then see those "Q-U-I-T" threads above ;-).
Computers are used in many different areas for many different purposes. I don't want my child to think of computers as having something to do with "computer class". I want my child to see computers being used in Art, in Geography, in Accouting, etc...
I do agree that computers should not be used to replace the Basics.
Most schoolboards (and governments) in the Western World have mandated a wider use of computers in the classroom. They have not, however, given teachers the tools necessary to figure out what "computers in the classroom" means...so they mainly turn to word processing and elementary data gathering (spreadsheets)...it is here that the teacher finds themselves caught.
I completely agree that a particular software package should not be mandated. I don't want my child to think that there is one way to do things on a computer. But I do back teachers for requiring some computer usage in their non-computer courses.
If you are leaving because you are being exploited, then great; do what you would normally do when not happy: either leave now or find another job first and then resign.
But what is the point of the mass exodus? Are you trying to hurt the company? If so, then I see that as a big problem.
Are you trying to go off and start a new business with said folks? Then I suggest you take a measured approach: develop a business plan, get some contacts and/or contracts, possibly have a couple leave now to focus on the business while the remainders stay at the current (paying) jobs until there is stability in the new place.
If you aren't trying to go somewhere else with the group, then I really don't see the point to the exodus.
A bunch of posts here say "don't leave 'cause that'll look bad in an interview". I don't buy that at all myself. However, if you lead an exodus with no real (business) purpose then that WOULD look bad for sure.
The fact is, the majority of teachers don't know any more or less w.r.t. computers and software than Joe Sixpack. They have enough troubles finding time to keep up with their areas of expertise and marking. Chasing after alternative software resources just doesn't prioritize well. And school boards all over the world shirked their responsibilities to provide teachers with up-to-date materials LONG ago.
The teacher will state that the work needs to be provided in MS-Word (assuming a soft-copy is being handed in). They will not insist that you have it at home, but of course the "labs" are only open twice a week, in the mornings, for 10 minutes (or something like that) so your Johnny is the one who added the "I need Word" part.
Don't always fly off the handle at those teachers. I do agree that they have their faults, but time and money (ha!) for researching software is not readily available to them.
Then the university programs would come on for one or two half-hour shows. There'd be lectures on dinosaurs, chemistry, ancient art, archeology, religion, Egyptian architectures, etc...
Then, if I remember correctly, Scooby-Doo would start off the morning line up (the real Scooby-Doo, not that new-age Scrappy crap, and DON'T get me started on Gadzookie...).
Superfriends, Laugh Olympics, and of course the classic Schoolhouse Rock fill-ins...conjunction junction, what's your function?
I never really liked the Smurfs; guess I was starting to outgrow cartoons then. But I never missed an episode of Dungeons and Dragons. Always wanted that bow...
Back then, shows were real. Now we've got Artifical T.V. ... my wife says that Jenna won.
Don't forget about the JDEE!
*laughter*
(Though I don't know if it is "underappreciated"...maybe it is used too often for "over-indulgence"...stupid excuse for it actually.)
Everytime I hear someone say "X really needs to die", they blame the wire protocol. Well, the first step in optimization is to prove that the optimization you plan to do is actually necessary.
I have seen a large number of projects where "blind optimization" involves reworking large chunks of code only to find out that they haven't really solved the real problem.
As one doctor put it to us a few months ago: "If you think your baby is colicky, she isn't."
And I say that if this is the case, then all of us software developers had better move to Redmond or take up shoe repair.
It is completely possible to run a shop with no (zero, ziltch) MS software. And I don't think that a person's "education" would suffer because they have to use something "different". If that was the case, then all of us who went to University and never once used a Windows/DOS box for any course must be completely unemployable...
Are you saying that in an educational environment, people must learn on the latest-and-greatest? If so, you haven't been paying attention to the state of education in North America in the past 20 years.
The point of my previous post is that the overwhelming majority of people who use MS software never *need* to use "MS software". There are a wide variety of options that will suitably do the job they are looking to do. Oh, there are arguments as to why to choose MS but blanket statements about MS being the "only choice" are false.
- 99.78% of people licensed for MS Office don't use it to its full potential
- 94.8% of students will never (or should never) learn enough spreadsheet functionality that they need to be locked into a specific vendor's implementation [generic techniques are a Good Thing...unfortunately most teachers/"professors" have already been locked in themselves]
- Nothing in this troll-post says that they have to dump existing apps/machines. There are many businesses that are still running Win95/Win98 and this school can continue using their existing infrastructure (and avoid the [not-yet Universally Required] Upgrade Tax)
I have taught spreadsheets and word processing. I have done so using different packages on different OS's (Mac and Windows mainly). However, I stick as much as possible to generic functionality. The amount that one can do "generically" is quite impressive. I typically have one project where the students use package-specific features so that they can see extra things.But no one hires someone on the basis that they know how to use MS-Word "Letter Wizard..." (or whatever). If they do hire based on knowledge of specific features...I sure hope they check which specific version the interviewee knows as the specific feature changes from release to release!!!
Care to name some software that is "only available from microsoft ...[with] no comparible[sic] products" ??
I strongly suspect that it would be smaller than that of, say, Red Hat's RHN since MS is only worried about the OS and a few of its software titles. RHN on the other hand offers thousands of packages.
And even if the list was quite massive, why would it have to resend everything all the time? Why not send a list of the changes since the last time the user downloaded (the client could say "everything since 2003/01/21 08:45:00" or something similar).
If RHN and other upgrades can download a list of packages, why can't MS? They not smart enough? No, the answer is that they don't get enough "feedback" when they do it that way.
During the beta of Win95 they tried this trick and the press was all over them. They realized they made a mistake introducing such a shocking "big brother" utility at the same time that they were releasing such a major product. Instead, MS is beginning to learn that when it goes to violate people's privacy (and rights), it should do things in small increments:
Because for the most part Sybase develops its own software. ;-)
Eventually:
Notice that at no point have I concluded that the job is actually worth $55/hr or $5/hr. It is irrelevant because it is the market that will decide, not the person fighting the change.
Yes, individuals may (will!) get hurt along the way. This is the nature of change. However, change will occur and trying to keep something at the status quo for the sake of the status quo will only lead to greater change (and typically greater harm) further down the road.
If coding jobs are being shipped to somewhere because it is $5/hr, then that's because the job is truly worth $5/hr. You think if the job was worth $55/hr that they guy living elsewhere wouldn't collect it? Is he generous enough to take a hit solely because he doesn't live in downtown Metropolis(tm) ?
No.
If management moved the job somewhere hoping to save $50/hr, then they will either:
(a) be happy with what they get
(b) get the work back to people who can give them the quality they want (at they price it is worth).
Management may (or may not) take a hit for their move. The company may (or may not) take a hit for their move.
This is how economics works at the macro level (which is close to the topic of the original post).
Yes, I probably should add such a point to my "GPL in a nutshell". It is an all-to-oft overlooked clause (one that MS happily FUDs over all the time).