I see one fatal error in your argument. You assume people have common sense:) Seriously though there has been a strong debate of weather there are other planets. That got settled when we found a gas giant. This is the first planet found that could support "life as we know it". The theory being that Redneck Bob would never believe there's life in a gas giant, but a rock that looks liek Earth hurm maybe. Think how long people thought there was life on Mars, oh oh maybe Venus. Only to be proven (possibly) wrong. Meanwhile there were very few people saying oh maybe life on Jupiter and those tended to be scientists. -cpd
Why should we use celsius? Its based on water. What good is that? Why not Kelvins? There's something based on molecules. That makes sense. And Fahrenheit is based on something - salt water I think - not real sure. All measurment scales are based on something. No one scale really is better than the other. They just all have their uses. I mean common if we all used the same measuring scale then a light bulb would produce X hp, or cars producing Y watts. It sounds silly off hand. Oh well like this was just meant as an opposing view and not meant to be taken too seriously. -cpd
I may be willing to accept your reasons (although jms suggests there is no such mechanism so I'm not real sure). But why didn't MS give this explanation then? At MS' site on the subject it says the key is specifically for disaster recovery. Not anything else. I really still don't understand why DR could cause the neccesity of this. Your explanation makes sense though. Theirs does not. -cpd
Can someone explain the MS response? Why do they need the backup? If you have a natural disaster where the primary key is held then the backup key would be used which is held at a different place. Why not just have 2 copies of the primary key? I hope there is something obvious that I don't see. -cpd
1. Why do people need PC's? Most the work people I see doing is e-mail, word processing, and DB, with a rare user programming Access, and one user doing artwork. Most or all of this can be accomplished on a dumb terminal. Ok the artwork person also needs a disk if they have to send something off site or scan. Still a PC is a rare need. 2. I'll agree here, but I would hope that Sun would allow you to just buy the thing outright. 3. I can see some argument here. Making users and maintainers rethink their use would take some effort. This is the biggest reason that it would fail. People were resistant enough to the idea of PC's to begin with. Now its accepted. Now you want them to change??? 4. Yes it would be expensive to shift. However it probably wouldn't be expensive to start. And I think (alothough I'm no accountant) that the balance sheet would work out in this model's favor. -cpd
While I can't speak to the seeing them compete in this market I think this is a great use for it. say you have mechanics, shipping/recieveing folk, etc. They need to see manuals, etc. Put the manuals on the web and use this thing. Great fit I think. Generally you don't care who reads a manual. I knida see them used more as wireless ebooks to the web. True security can be a concern depending on what you are accessing, but if you have pages of how to fix conveyor X then you generally don't care too much who sees it. Or even things like MSDS (?) sheets. The ones that say which materials are stored in the area and what hazards are associated with them. This would be a great application. I would just be worried about people walking off with em. -cpd
Maybe that could be a feature? Another filter. Basically something that would allow you to filer out comments based on their moderation (Funny, Insightful, Troll, Redundant). Or even filter if it hasn't been moderated. Oh well just an idea. -cpd
No. If I remember right my understanding was that RH wasn't selling Linux. They sell support. For $40(is that how much it is?) you get 90 days of installation support. Oh and a manual. And a bumpersticker. And a little sticker to put on your computer. But you really are buying the support. As an idea maybe RH could sell support for copies of their CDs. I.e. you buy a RHL CD off somone on Amazon. Turns out its not 'Official'. Well hey you only paid $10 for it. Call up RH. They can't help cuz its not their supported version. Pay $x. Get support. Not the perfect solution, but a reasonable one. I'm not suggesting they support Caldera, Debian, or even Mandrake. But their official distro that someone downloaded and then bought support for. -cpd
Any type of online docs are great. IF you can get to them. Sounds silly, but when I installed Linux I didn't know much. I read the install directions that came with RH5.2. Followed them. Couldn't get my modem working though. Took me a while of searching through the book to find the stuff about HOWTOs. Then to get to them on my computer. To find out that I was probably having a problem with PnP settings. Blah blah blah. Point is: 1) You can't read electronic docs to install something. Install docs need to be in paper form. 2) Web docs alone may be useless. My modem didn't work. So no internet connection. So I missed a lot of the documentation out there. 3) Some people like reading paper more than computers. -cpd
Delphi tends to be on top. I would've thought that C++ builder would've been more popular with Linux users/coders. Cuz you get C++ code out, not the odd delphi stuff. But even more interesting is some of the other numbers... ~500 people want VB on Linux ~4250 people want ASP for Linux ~3820 people want Microsoft SQL Server on Linux Ahh the telling point Which toolkits will you use? ~6250 Don't know what these toolkits are. ~14000 primary develop Windows 9332 deleop primary in Delphi
Good to see that ~5700 will release software free
But it is interesting to see that this list is mainly from windows developers not from Linux developers which kinda explains the other results. -cpd
*wince* Yeah. I meant 1.1.2 or preferably 2.0. I actually have 1.1.1 on my machine right now. Generally use Gnome though. No real reason. Now that I've gotten used to Gnome and can use it easily enough, maybe I should try KDE. Nothing like the feel of something new. -cpd
Nah. I think the real thing preventing people from moving from Win to Linux is a combination of marketing, peer presure, habit, and lack of knowledge. I found it amazing when my mother actually said "Yeah I read about that Linux thing the other day. Can you show it to me?" The thing is she's seen it before and not been interested. But with the recent media exposee it finally is getting through to her. The habit and peer presure will still keep he in windows I think. "Everybody else at work is using Windows. Its what I know so I'll stick with it." I'll have to try KDE and show it to her when its finally released. Maybe it'll be enough to kick her over the edge into the grat Linux world.... -cpd
I was forced to use Magic once. Judging from their abilities to judge their user's happiness I'd have to say the penguins were very unhappy. Probably wishing for the rocket packs from Batman Returns. -cpd
How much of a role do you think the net will have on an election? Considering the last stat's I saw most people were not on the net it might not be much. But how many of those vote? Most net users tend to over state its importance. Most non-net users tend to understate it importance. Can a candidate win today without a net presence of some sort? Can a condidate win today based mainly on a net presence? -cpd
There are a ton of devices to control a nuclear plant. Most all of the nessecary. For some of these failure is a critical problem. Most of these sites have redundant seperate controls. Or they are supposed to. I have heard of at least one instance where one of two control panels froze. No big deal. That's why there's 2. Well the second one was suddenly not reading properly - way too high temp, way too quickly. Or so it seemed. Turns out it was reading right. But when the 1st controls froze they started sending bad commands. The reactor could have gone into some bad situations if someone hadn't figured it out almost immediately, and yanked the 1st control boards. Thus allowing the second to rectify the situation. Nothing to do with Y2K, but a bug none the less. As for the date stuff. Well a lot of things have dates programmed into them as to when they need to be replaced. This might stop working suddenly. Or at least that is one potential concern. -cpd
An ideal raod would provide no stops between where I am and where I'm going. However I don't always go to the same place and many other people go to the same places as me. Really the ideal infrastructure of roads provide for the fewest number of stoped cars. And you have to throw in safety concerns. Stops are good in school areas because people tend to go a little slower. Yeah todays roads tend to be poorly designed for todays traffic. But a lot of that is caused by a carry-over effect. The road started as wide as a horse and buggy. People built houses. Now the road can't get any wider, without the destruction of people's property, which everyone will yell and scream about. The problem may be obvious but the solution is definetely not. So the scientists are modeling the problems (including unlikely things like people riding their brakes a 1/2 second too long), so they can find solutions. -cpd
Like I said my mom installed Win95. And the printer. The network connection someone helped her with (its her work computer). No she couldn't do everything from day 1. She still can't. But she knows to hit f1 for help. My mo can't remember the "del" command from dos. She does remember to hit the del key in file manager to delete file. As for the computer crashing - it happens extremely rarely. Once a year maybe. When it happens its usually something I can say "Well yeah hitting ctrl-alt-del does reboot the computer" to. Occasionaly there is a serious problem. But she knows to save often. So she's never lost more than 15 min of work. As for reinstalling everything - ummmmm. I think that happened when she got the new computer. About 3 years ago. Since then.... No reinstalls. And she would've had to install Linux and everything with the new computer too. -cpd
What if that truck convoy is carying nuclear weapons into your backyard? What would you rather? NT running the code that guides a missle at the truck to defend your house Or Linux aiming the missle. Yes people will die. You or them. Yes I know the military does not always act in what some people think is a good way. But every military action will be frowned upon by somebody. But it is true (or seems to have been proven repeatedly) that sometimes military force is nessecary. On a side note who ever said they were gonna use Linux to kill people? I'd think they would still use it for the main uses you use it for. Most of the targeting systems were extremely customized code that is part of the hardware. If you have a problem with Linux being used as a file server for the AirForce, that's really a stretch. -cpd
OK naive part of me says "Where does the USAF take rights away?" But I do see your argument.
At the same time though - Any country can use Linux. Any company can use Linux. Any person can use Linux. While you can say that linux is to forward the rights of users, how can you deny that right too anyone? This is comprable to denying Free Speech to a group like the KKK, or Nazis, or Communists, or Religious Right, or any group you don't agree with. So you want only good people to use the Linux? Define good. -cpd
Couple of things - 1. GPL only applies if they modify GPL code. If they code new stuff (from scratch) it doesn't matter. 2. I thought GPL only applied if you sold/distributed the code. I might be wrong and I know this is against the spirit of the GPL, but can't I modify a GPL'd piece of code, and keep it to myself if I'm the only one using it? What if my company is just using it in-house? I thought under these conditions it did not have to be released. And in that way the gov't could use it for secret stuff. 3. If they just use it as an OS why would they release the database they are running? -cpd
But who set it all up? I have seen my mother install win95. And M$Office. Yeah she just hit the typical install thing. But it was simple.
I installed RH5.2 about 6 mos ago. I had no problem. I installed KDE and Gnome. Fairly easy. Thing is I know basic unix stuff. My mother could not have done it.
With linux you still need to know commands. With Windows you don't. Although you should. I'm sure my mother would be uncomfortable in linux, and therefore would not use it. Yes KDE and Gnome are easy to use. But you still have to know stuff. Most people already know Windows. Why would they learn something else? Cuz it's more stable? - nah. Mom's computer rarely goes down and then its an exscuse for coffee. Freedom(speech) of Code? - nah. she could care less. Free($$$) of code? - That she might bite at. But she'll probably pay for something familiar. How much will you pay for home cooking like mom's? Cuz she can run a server? - Mom's response - Whats that? I still argue that linux's main place is in the server arena, in the hands of computer people, and used by people willing to learn. The masses tend not to want to learn. -cpd
If they make money I'm gonna launch one of these. I'll use a laser pointer and morse code. It may not as extensive in coverage as their machine, but it will work, and be cheaper. I'll only charge $5 per 5000 words. I couldn't actually use their method, cuz gorsh I wouldn't want to infringe on any patent rights.... Ohhh their "powerful computers" will do some magic and let you know when your email has been sent. And I'll send you an email right after I tap out your message. I gotta find the twinks who actually try to do this. I'm sure they'll buy my new death ray too.
No there wasn't. Ask people who live there. Actually don't they are being harrased enough. I know people from the area. Born in the 40's. Funny she's alive. Funny she's asked her folks and they swear there is no such thing. If it is true then the locals don't even know about it. -cpd
*possible spoilers at the end* ok I liked the movie. Saw it Saturday afternoon. I really wasn't scared. Not scared at all. I was tense the whole time. Nervous. Kinda like Alien or Aliens where you are waiting for something to happen and you don't nessecarily know what, but not actually scared. The best billing I can give this movie is that I actually wanted to leave. I didn't want to be there. Which was a good thing about the movie. As for it being predictable I have to disagree. OK looking back you can see what was gonna happen, but at least I couldn't quote the lines before they were said - like the normal set of horror flicks. *possible spoiler part* But my god I have to laugh at these people. I mean the things they don't know about the woods were astounding. Simple things like reading maps. Bring more than 1 map. Bring more than 1 compass. Use lighter packs. Lights at night kill your sight. If you are scarred of what happens at night then clip glow sticks (or phosphorescent patches) to you clothes and walk with those at night, and sleep during the day. Travel in one direction was good. But along the creek would've been better. Oh and BTW there is no Blair witch. -cpd
Slashdot Mirror
I see one fatal error in your argument. You assume people have common sense :)
Seriously though there has been a strong debate of weather there are other planets. That got settled when we found a gas giant. This is the first planet found that could support "life as we know it". The theory being that Redneck Bob would never believe there's life in a gas giant, but a rock that looks liek Earth hurm maybe. Think how long people thought there was life on Mars, oh oh maybe Venus. Only to be proven (possibly) wrong. Meanwhile there were very few people saying oh maybe life on Jupiter and those tended to be scientists.
-cpd
Why should we use celsius? Its based on water. What good is that? Why not Kelvins? There's something based on molecules. That makes sense. And Fahrenheit is based on something - salt water I think - not real sure.
All measurment scales are based on something. No one scale really is better than the other. They just all have their uses. I mean common if we all used the same measuring scale then a light bulb would produce X hp, or cars producing Y watts. It sounds silly off hand.
Oh well like this was just meant as an opposing view and not meant to be taken too seriously.
-cpd
I may be willing to accept your reasons (although jms suggests there is no such mechanism so I'm not real sure). But why didn't MS give this explanation then? At MS' site on the subject it says the key is specifically for disaster recovery. Not anything else. I really still don't understand why DR could cause the neccesity of this.
Your explanation makes sense though. Theirs does not.
-cpd
Can someone explain the MS response? Why do they need the backup? If you have a natural disaster where the primary key is held then the backup key would be used which is held at a different place. Why not just have 2 copies of the primary key? I hope there is something obvious that I don't see.
-cpd
1. Why do people need PC's? Most the work people I see doing is e-mail, word processing, and DB, with a rare user programming Access, and one user doing artwork. Most or all of this can be accomplished on a dumb terminal. Ok the artwork person also needs a disk if they have to send something off site or scan. Still a PC is a rare need.
2. I'll agree here, but I would hope that Sun would allow you to just buy the thing outright.
3. I can see some argument here. Making users and maintainers rethink their use would take some effort. This is the biggest reason that it would fail. People were resistant enough to the idea of PC's to begin with. Now its accepted. Now you want them to change???
4. Yes it would be expensive to shift. However it probably wouldn't be expensive to start. And I think (alothough I'm no accountant) that the balance sheet would work out in this model's favor.
-cpd
While I can't speak to the seeing them compete in this market I think this is a great use for it. say you have mechanics, shipping/recieveing folk, etc. They need to see manuals, etc. Put the manuals on the web and use this thing. Great fit I think. Generally you don't care who reads a manual. I knida see them used more as wireless ebooks to the web. True security can be a concern depending on what you are accessing, but if you have pages of how to fix conveyor X then you generally don't care too much who sees it. Or even things like MSDS (?) sheets. The ones that say which materials are stored in the area and what hazards are associated with them. This would be a great application.
I would just be worried about people walking off with em.
-cpd
Maybe that could be a feature?
Another filter. Basically something that would allow you to filer out comments based on their moderation (Funny, Insightful, Troll, Redundant). Or even filter if it hasn't been moderated. Oh well just an idea.
-cpd
I'm seeing similar things. More along the lines of the back link points to older articles and there is no forward link.
-cpd
No. If I remember right my understanding was that RH wasn't selling Linux. They sell support. For $40(is that how much it is?) you get 90 days of installation support. Oh and a manual. And a bumpersticker. And a little sticker to put on your computer. But you really are buying the support.
As an idea maybe RH could sell support for copies of their CDs. I.e. you buy a RHL CD off somone on Amazon. Turns out its not 'Official'. Well hey you only paid $10 for it. Call up RH. They can't help cuz its not their supported version. Pay $x. Get support. Not the perfect solution, but a reasonable one. I'm not suggesting they support Caldera, Debian, or even Mandrake. But their official distro that someone downloaded and then bought support for.
-cpd
Any type of online docs are great. IF you can get to them. Sounds silly, but when I installed Linux I didn't know much. I read the install directions that came with RH5.2. Followed them. Couldn't get my modem working though. Took me a while of searching through the book to find the stuff about HOWTOs. Then to get to them on my computer. To find out that I was probably having a problem with PnP settings. Blah blah blah. Point is:
1) You can't read electronic docs to install something. Install docs need to be in paper form.
2) Web docs alone may be useless. My modem didn't work. So no internet connection. So I missed a lot of the documentation out there.
3) Some people like reading paper more than computers.
-cpd
Delphi tends to be on top. I would've thought that C++ builder would've been more popular with Linux users/coders. Cuz you get C++ code out, not the odd delphi stuff. But even more interesting is some of the other numbers...
~500 people want VB on Linux
~4250 people want ASP for Linux
~3820 people want Microsoft SQL Server on Linux
Ahh the telling point
Which toolkits will you use?
~6250 Don't know what these toolkits are.
~14000 primary develop Windows
9332 deleop primary in Delphi
Good to see that
~5700 will release software free
But it is interesting to see that this list is mainly from windows developers not from Linux developers which kinda explains the other results.
-cpd
*wince*
Yeah. I meant 1.1.2 or preferably 2.0.
I actually have 1.1.1 on my machine right now. Generally use Gnome though. No real reason. Now that I've gotten used to Gnome and can use it easily enough, maybe I should try KDE. Nothing like the feel of something new.
-cpd
Nah. I think the real thing preventing people from moving from Win to Linux is a combination of marketing, peer presure, habit, and lack of knowledge.
I found it amazing when my mother actually said "Yeah I read about that Linux thing the other day. Can you show it to me?" The thing is she's seen it before and not been interested. But with the recent media exposee it finally is getting through to her. The habit and peer presure will still keep he in windows I think.
"Everybody else at work is using Windows. Its what I know so I'll stick with it."
I'll have to try KDE and show it to her when its finally released. Maybe it'll be enough to kick her over the edge into the grat Linux world....
-cpd
I was forced to use Magic once. Judging from their abilities to judge their user's happiness I'd have to say the penguins were very unhappy. Probably wishing for the rocket packs from Batman Returns.
-cpd
How much of a role do you think the net will have on an election?
Considering the last stat's I saw most people were not on the net it might not be much. But how many of those vote? Most net users tend to over state its importance. Most non-net users tend to understate it importance.
Can a candidate win today without a net presence of some sort?
Can a condidate win today based mainly on a net presence?
-cpd
There are a ton of devices to control a nuclear plant. Most all of the nessecary. For some of these failure is a critical problem. Most of these sites have redundant seperate controls. Or they are supposed to. I have heard of at least one instance where one of two control panels froze. No big deal. That's why there's 2. Well the second one was suddenly not reading properly - way too high temp, way too quickly. Or so it seemed. Turns out it was reading right. But when the 1st controls froze they started sending bad commands. The reactor could have gone into some bad situations if someone hadn't figured it out almost immediately, and yanked the 1st control boards. Thus allowing the second to rectify the situation. Nothing to do with Y2K, but a bug none the less.
As for the date stuff. Well a lot of things have dates programmed into them as to when they need to be replaced. This might stop working suddenly. Or at least that is one potential concern.
-cpd
An ideal raod would provide no stops between where I am and where I'm going. However I don't always go to the same place and many other people go to the same places as me. Really the ideal infrastructure of roads provide for the fewest number of stoped cars. And you have to throw in safety concerns. Stops are good in school areas because people tend to go a little slower.
Yeah todays roads tend to be poorly designed for todays traffic. But a lot of that is caused by a carry-over effect. The road started as wide as a horse and buggy. People built houses. Now the road can't get any wider, without the destruction of people's property, which everyone will yell and scream about.
The problem may be obvious but the solution is definetely not. So the scientists are modeling the problems (including unlikely things like people riding their brakes a 1/2 second too long), so they can find solutions.
-cpd
Like I said my mom installed Win95. And the printer. The network connection someone helped her with (its her work computer). No she couldn't do everything from day 1. She still can't. But she knows to hit f1 for help. My mo can't remember the "del" command from dos. She does remember to hit the del key in file manager to delete file.
As for the computer crashing - it happens extremely rarely. Once a year maybe. When it happens its usually something I can say "Well yeah hitting ctrl-alt-del does reboot the computer" to. Occasionaly there is a serious problem. But she knows to save often. So she's never lost more than 15 min of work.
As for reinstalling everything - ummmmm. I think that happened when she got the new computer. About 3 years ago. Since then.... No reinstalls. And she would've had to install Linux and everything with the new computer too.
-cpd
What if that truck convoy is carying nuclear weapons into your backyard? What would you rather?
NT running the code that guides a missle at the truck to defend your house
Or Linux aiming the missle.
Yes people will die. You or them.
Yes I know the military does not always act in what some people think is a good way. But every military action will be frowned upon by somebody. But it is true (or seems to have been proven repeatedly) that sometimes military force is nessecary.
On a side note who ever said they were gonna use Linux to kill people? I'd think they would still use it for the main uses you use it for. Most of the targeting systems were extremely customized code that is part of the hardware.
If you have a problem with Linux being used as a file server for the AirForce, that's really a stretch.
-cpd
OK naive part of me says "Where does the USAF take rights away?" But I do see your argument.
At the same time though -
Any country can use Linux.
Any company can use Linux.
Any person can use Linux.
While you can say that linux is to forward the rights of users, how can you deny that right too anyone? This is comprable to denying Free Speech to a group like the KKK, or Nazis, or Communists, or Religious Right, or any group you don't agree with.
So you want only good people to use the Linux?
Define good.
-cpd
Couple of things -
1. GPL only applies if they modify GPL code. If they code new stuff (from scratch) it doesn't matter.
2. I thought GPL only applied if you sold/distributed the code. I might be wrong and I know this is against the spirit of the GPL, but can't I modify a GPL'd piece of code, and keep it to myself if I'm the only one using it? What if my company is just using it in-house? I thought under these conditions it did not have to be released. And in that way the gov't could use it for secret stuff.
3. If they just use it as an OS why would they release the database they are running?
-cpd
But who set it all up? I have seen my mother install win95. And M$Office. Yeah she just hit the typical install thing. But it was simple.
I installed RH5.2 about 6 mos ago. I had no problem. I installed KDE and Gnome. Fairly easy. Thing is I know basic unix stuff. My mother could not have done it.
With linux you still need to know commands. With Windows you don't. Although you should. I'm sure my mother would be uncomfortable in linux, and therefore would not use it. Yes KDE and Gnome are easy to use. But you still have to know stuff. Most people already know Windows.
Why would they learn something else?
Cuz it's more stable? - nah. Mom's computer rarely goes down and then its an exscuse for coffee.
Freedom(speech) of Code? - nah. she could care less.
Free($$$) of code? - That she might bite at. But she'll probably pay for something familiar. How much will you pay for home cooking like mom's?
Cuz she can run a server? - Mom's response - Whats that?
I still argue that linux's main place is in the server arena, in the hands of computer people, and used by people willing to learn. The masses tend not to want to learn.
-cpd
If they make money I'm gonna launch one of these. I'll use a laser pointer and morse code. It may not as extensive in coverage as their machine, but it will work, and be cheaper. I'll only charge $5 per 5000 words. I couldn't actually use their method, cuz gorsh I wouldn't want to infringe on any patent rights....
Ohhh their "powerful computers" will do some magic and let you know when your email has been sent. And I'll send you an email right after I tap out your message.
I gotta find the twinks who actually try to do this. I'm sure they'll buy my new death ray too.
Silly question is Dogbert running BentSpace?
-cpd
No there wasn't.
Ask people who live there.
Actually don't they are being harrased enough.
I know people from the area.
Born in the 40's.
Funny she's alive.
Funny she's asked her folks and they swear there is no such thing.
If it is true then the locals don't even know about it.
-cpd
*possible spoilers at the end*
ok I liked the movie. Saw it Saturday afternoon. I really wasn't scared. Not scared at all. I was tense the whole time. Nervous. Kinda like Alien or Aliens where you are waiting for something to happen and you don't nessecarily know what, but not actually scared. The best billing I can give this movie is that I actually wanted to leave. I didn't want to be there. Which was a good thing about the movie. As for it being predictable I have to disagree. OK looking back you can see what was gonna happen, but at least I couldn't quote the lines before they were said - like the normal set of horror flicks.
*possible spoiler part*
But my god I have to laugh at these people. I mean the things they don't know about the woods were astounding. Simple things like reading maps. Bring more than 1 map. Bring more than 1 compass. Use lighter packs. Lights at night kill your sight. If you are scarred of what happens at night then clip glow sticks (or phosphorescent patches) to you clothes and walk with those at night, and sleep during the day. Travel in one direction was good. But along the creek would've been better.
Oh and BTW there is no Blair witch.
-cpd