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Protest over LinuxWorld Penguins
Here is some more info about the live penguins which appeared at Linux World. Some participants complained about the penguins' small cage and stress due to the number of people around.
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So a six year old kid living in a war zone is someone I need to worry about less than two well fed pets? I don't know if I buy that. PETA has little regard for humans(as exhibited by PETA protestors making kids cry - see the washington post a few years ago) and too much concern for animals(a friend of mine worked for a circus, PETA protested at some of their shows, saying animals were mistreated, yet nothing bad ever happened to said animals). Admittedly, this is a sweeping generalization, but I think most protestors in the US today need to get a grip and worry about the important things. Homelessness, world hunger, disease, and man's inhumanity to man all pop to mind. Saving the pets that don't need saving seems a little trite.
itachi
I've heard we taste like chicken... Other than the cultural taboos, I personally don't see why we shouldn't. Solve overpopulation and unwanted children in one foul swoop without upsetting the right-to-life crowd. Planned parenthood could set up some deal where you can trade you kid to a farmer rather than getting an abortion, then the farmer fattens them up for market. This would work great!
itachi
I saw a show on the Discovery channel recently that POSITIVELY showed that penguins are nervous about people when first around them. After only one week of exposure to people, they didn't care about people at all. This was in context to WILD penguins, in their breeding area. These penguins have obviously been around people for quite some time, so PETA really needs to get a clue. Before being slavering mouthed advocates of "saving the animals", find out your facts first. I'd take a stressed out penguin over a stupid PETA, er, I mean person, any day of the week.
The original poster forgot the line where they mention that the PETA-ites worry about the feelings of the animals to the exclusion of worrying about people. Which is the point of the argument, it just sort of got mislaid. And _that_ is a serious flaw in the behavior of said PETA-ites. Please don't argue that PETA-ites don't do this, many do, I'd even say most do. At least with important things. I mean, how many times have you heard of the ambassador of (country of the day for attrocities) got red paint thrown on them? How else could there be such a loud drone of AR protest while so much desperately needed human rights protest never happens?
itachi
...he's not wearing a red hat. :)
(I can't BELIEVE I was the first to get that one in.)
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
at the outpouring of heartless indifference so common in the Slashdot community. Anyone critical of your fun is a PETA nut or meddling do gooder, it would seem.
At this website, the symbol of the penguin represents not Linux, but rather what a cold bunch you are. Sadly, the only warmth found at Slashdot is generated by the myraid, pointless flamewars.
The music is not in the piano -Clement Mok
1. Stress:
I'm sure that the penguins in the wild that have to contend with sharks, killer whales, and land predetors have no stress???? Hello! We need a clue over here, stat!
2. Big Group of Loud Gawkers:
When was the last time you watched a National Geographic special guys??? Does the term THOUSANDS of SQUAKING PENGUINS meen anything to you????
3. Small Cage:
Oh brother, these guys sleep buttcheek to buttcheek crammed together amongst thousands of other penguins like sardines in a can. By comparison, they had a one-man stateroom with room-service.
4. Fear in their eyes???:
You've been watching WAY too much Bambie fellas. Next thing you'll be doing is posting puppy-eyed renditions of the penguins with trembling lower lips and tears in national newspapers. Penguins don't live to be happy - they just want their fish, a place to park and a lay every once and a while. Frankly, these two (guy and girl) have that covered better than most of you PETA waste-heads have. We can even nix the stress of having to fight for territory and girls - so they have even LESS stress even without regarding the fact that these little fellas don't have to dodge sharks and other predetors (except PETA fanatics).
Summary - they have WAY more stress in the wild dealing with staying alive through the next hour and fighting over territory and girls than anything they've been "forced to endure" at the hands of their "oh so evil captors". A crowd of Geeks at an Linux festival doesn't hold half a candle to the vast crowd they live with in the wild. They usually sleep with LESS space in the wild than what they are now in captivity. And - these are NOT Human - no matter how much you want us to believe it.
Point - pick your trees to bark up more carefully and stop judging the "feelings" of animals as if they were human. It's one thing to wip an animal till the skin shreds and starve it. It's another to manage animals with respect and kindness like these penguins are managed. Stop using a very public forum like the Expo to gain free publicity for your cause - you'll be seen as a bunch of whiny buttheads and idiots.
--end rant
PETA has gone too far.
Pork is not a verb
HEY! Don't give Katz any ideas, its enough that we have deal with Roblimo lately... I never thought I would say this, but /. is going down the toilet lately...
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
As soon as our feathered friends stop shitting all over my car! Then, and only then, will I reciprocate and show them some respect! ;-)
This is what we Philosophers like to call, in technical terms, a "Bullshit Argument." I'm not intending to sigle out just this poseter, but there are a lot of similar posts to this story.
What people are saying: The suffering of animals is bad. They are trying to prevent this suffering and in this case they saw penguins (wild, aquatic birds), being kept in small cages and paraded about to large audiences. I think that this is a valid point.
What people DID NOT say: That this was more important than other atrocities in the world. I would imagine that if 1000 Rawandan's were hacked to death AT THE EXPO, people would sure have raised a stink.
Ethical issues are not trumped by other unrelated ethical issues. Murder is worse than child abuse, that does not mean that we should ignore child abuse to focus all of our attention on murder. We need to address all ethical issues.
Yeah, I'm a vegetarian, yeah I think that other animals should not be used for the sole benefit of human animals. Just wanted to get that out of the way before someone tried to point out that anyone who supports animal rights is probably also a communist (a logical fallacy known as a Red Herring by the way).
That's the spirit that this wretched criminal wants to conjure up. A little red demon with a pitchfork. A fiend from Hell. So what if the BSD people used the wrong spelling? A DEMON is what they meant, and a DEMON is what is they are universally understood to have meant. The fact that they adopted that particular mascot proves it. The fact that they choose to represent the work of their minds and hearts with a DEMON proves that they have rejected Christ in their minds and hearts, and they want us to know about it. What else could they have intended? That DEMON is the focus of their activities, the touchstone of their thoughts. They're worshipping an idol, and they're luring INNOCENT CHILDREN, naive innocent college freshmen, into their cult. It's a clever way to infiltrate the technical community and thence the youth of America -- almost demonically clever, in fact. These liberal secular humanists are sneaky. It comes with the territory. They are perfectly amoral, and all they love is power. What do they have but power? Let's see: They have no care for their families, because they don't really have families. A "family" without Christ is not a family, for it can have no love, no caring, no joy. Any fool can see that. What else is a family besides love in Christ? A man and a woman with children. Well, that's all out of the question too: They have rejected God's appointed roles for men and women, and their fanatical practice of abortion (murder) denies them the possibility of ever having children. They hate their Maker, of course, so they don't have that to live for. They don't have any communities at all, because they are incapable of caring or affection. Caring and affection are a gift from God, a gift the liberals have rejected along with all the others. The liberals don't have churches. They have no hope of heaven. Deep in their hearts, they know they are doomed to an eternity of torment. So they exact their revenge on the decent Christian people of the Earth. So they grab whatever they can take while they're still on Earth, while they can still grab. This is why all liberals are cold, cruel, and greed-obsessed. This is why they utterly lack any trace of human sympathy or compasson. They have made demons of themselves, and then appointed themselves to be their own gods, who they worship; it's no wonder that they worship demons outside of themselves as well. Anybody who knows anything about liberals
By the way, the Linux penguin is no less an idol than the Demon of BSD. I'd advise all of you to get right with God in a hurry. By your idolatry and atheism you have proudly declared yourselves outlaws, not under the protection of God's Law -- and that is the only law any white man is bound to obey. When justice finds you, you will have only yourselves to blame for the inevitable consequences of your actions.
I'd like to know who is responsible for using a living thing as a gimick. It's an insensitive thing to do.
I absolutely agree with you 100%. Using a living thing as a gimick to lure people into your booth at the show is a really sleazy thing to do.
Take those nice-lookin' babes with the big breasts and low neck-lines, for example. Fits your model perfectly but I didn't hear anyone complaining about them.
Lighten up. There are far worse things to get upset about.
--
I gave my boss a reality check. It bounced.
www.cthulhu.org Cthulhu ftagn ! Ya ! Ya !
I just had to reply to this guy, and say, I'd rather see my "fellow" "human beings" be treated badly, than some animals that aren't harming anything.
Thats what my job is like!
Cthulhu ftagn
Now you've done it! Now we're gonna have to put up with another Katz article advocating smuggling penguins into R-rated movies!!! ;-)
Does anyone have some official documentation to this? A SiliconValley.com report on a LinuxWorld conference is not official documentation. Where's the docs?
The Linux 2.3.13 sources' logo.gif does not sport the change, and neither does Larry Ewing's site.
This is useless crap to be ignored until and unless this becomes official.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
Yea, like those "whatever in the hell they were" suited characters at JavaOne.
Their cubicle is bigger than mine!
---
While I agree that his comment about Israelis in general was inaccurate, I'm afraid I can't say the same for the Israeli government. The United States has done some pretty bad stuff, but what Israel does, and is still doing, is much worse. At least the U.S. has an executive order barring government agencies from assassinating people, while Israel still often tries to assassinate people (they were caught a few years ago trying to kill somebody they didn't like in Jordan). Not to mention that it was even an issue when an Israeli citizen, who happened to be of an Arab ethnic background, was appointed to a security commission. If that's not racism, what is?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I wasn't at the show, but it is possible that the penguins where not having a good time. Still I'm sure we have all suffered through much worse and this does not seem to me like a _major_ thing. It was a stupid idea to bring the penguins to the show as it was inenvitable that some one was going to complain. And they are not totaly with out reason to do so. AC
Sience has proved that the fish have much less developed nervous systems than we do. The fish me be hurt a bit but its not like if a human were to bite down on a hook, not even close. BTW if it weren't for fisherman, you probably wouldn't be around. Fish has been the staple of many cultural diets throughout history and has helped mankind get where its at today.
Visualize Whirled Peas
my friend had a penguin once. It was kept in a 2 by 2 foot cage with a white bag over it's head most of the time after the novelty wore off. The shitted and pissed newspapers stopped getting changed and a severe infection developed on the penguin's ass. He began to hate the bird so much that he once pissed in it's cage onto it's head for making noise. Later in the year i went over there and the penguin was gone. It had it's head slammed up against the wall which killed it and was later chopped up and stuffed in an old NT 3.51 boxes and placed on the curb. Oh well it at least got a honorable burial... alongside the world's most powerful OS that ever will exist.. NT.
What a nation of whiners we are.
The birds are *professionals* for cryin out loud. With a resume. I suppose it wouldn't have made a difference if they'd hung a big banner underneath the main one reading:
"No penguins were harmed during this exposition."
I suppose next we'll get a story by Katz on how the penguins couldn't get in to see South Park, either.
"Penguins have rights, too! Waaaaaah!"
Blech. Signatures.
I went to see the penguin as I was a bit worried that this might turn into an ugly publicity stunt that would stress out the penguin.
I spoke to someone working there and the penguin appeared to be doing fine. It did not look like how the article described it at all. The cage wasn't that small either (the penguin was much smaller)
This was on the last day of the convention. There wasn't much of a crowd around the penguin who was gently nibbling on the ears and fingers of one of the booth workers. Looked calm and somewhat playful.
I think it was kept in the cage most of the time, so that it could just relax. The cage was a pet carrier which is mostly opaque plastic, so it was somewhat private.
I'm not a penguin expert. I don't think they should be kept as pets. But this penguin did not look at all tense or terrified as the article implies.
Um, so there were two guys in penguin suits floating around the show. One of them was a beat-up rental suit that Seagate had someone wearing. The other was a very droopy lookin' tux that Penguin Computing had someone wearing -it looked depressed. Both the guys in penguin suits were pretty pathetic.
Personally, i wouldn't mind being the center of attention everywhere i went and getting free food to boot. But then again, i'm not a penguin... last time i checked, anyway...
By the way, I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals so much. I'm a vegetarian because I really hate plants!
Stress? Small cage? Jesus, had I known it woulda been like that, I'da suggested we put Bill Gates in there (next to a bowl full of tomatoes.
People. Sheesh.
"Old man yells at systemd"
This is a picture of a penguin colony in South Africa located near Cape Town. There is a park ranger who continuously monitors the people while they watch the birds. You are not allowed to touch or disturb them. It is a very tropical setting, not at all what you would expect for a penguin colony. Penguin Colonoy
performing circus animals?
hmm, you beat me to this one, hehe
+&x
Actually, it seems like most Microsoft fans are trolls... :-)
Most fishermen practice Catch and release. This is very good. They are stereotyped and everybody thinks they A) Eat them or B) Mount them. Also, sportsmen donate billions of dollars every year to help protect the wildlife. Sure, they may decide to hunt there, but sportsmen LOVE animals and LOVE the outdoors. If someone built a house in the middle of the woods, it would displace and kill more animals then 1 hunter could ever kill. You should go after the contracters, and densify the human population before you go after fisherman/hunters/etc. Also, very few hunters use semi-automatic weapons, those who do will die in the next 5 years from there own stupidity just my $0.02
Looks like wildlife activists are getting just a bit too carried away... What could be better for a penguin than to be well-fed and cared for and near hundreds of Linux boxes?
You don't want too much slack in a seatbelt, otherwise they don't do much good. The penguins cages were the size used for a dog the same size, though dogs don't walk upright much. They might have been taller, and I expect penguins cages are hard to find. riverRat who didn't bring his password with him on the road.
Self proclaimed animal rights activists, religious vindicates and Linux advocates...
They're all the same: Only a miniscule percentage of them have all the facts.
No need to worry. The penguins will evolve some wire cutters for hands in due time. Then they can cut their way through the cage.
Nope... I'm not even sure what part of the country you're referring to. I was thinking of the one at Southcenter Mall, Tukwila, WA (south of Seattle).
They're probably getting fed fish and getting their tummies rubbed, kickin' back enjoying Linus' speech n stuff. But I'll bet they do think it's a bit warm there, you know, without any glaciers to lay down on....
-- My neighbors dog has a four inch clit.
...the community will decide live penguins at events is not cool. I didn't see the little guys at LinuxWorld but I did notice WAY too many guys in bad penguin suits.
Look kids, I love animals. I have a house full of rescue animals. I also took the time to wander over there several times and talk to the trainer. This woman is simply passionate about those animals. They have a 1000 gallon swimming pool and a concrete house in her backyard. They seem to have better lodgings than many of my friends. The animals were just fine. They got regular breaks and tons of fish.
I talked to quite a number of people at the show who were worried about the penguins and not a single on had taken the time to find out for themselves how the penguins were. Good Grief!
Or the time they threw turkeys out of the helicopter cuz they thot they could fly?
Actually wild turkeys can fly (not all that well though), however, domestic turkeys generally can't. Wild turkeys are also intelligent (as anyone who has tried to hunt them could attest) while domestic turkeys are one of the stupidest animals you will find on a farm.
I admit that I'm pretty soft on animals, even though I think PETA perhaps goes too far sometimes. Live penguins in cages, I mean, it would have been funnier and more PC (in a good way) and still apropos if they had had two guys in penguin suits doing the tricks. Think about it. Even Microsoft doesn't bring their caged rats, er, I mean, programmers to shows. Just the free-range ones.
The whole linux-penguin thing is cute, but why hassle a bunch of animals just for a marketing gimmick?
couldn't resist...hope the little fellas are ok. as long as they aren't endangered, and someone competent with penguins was there to monitor them, it's probably okay. but if they were abused, criticism is warranted. i wasn't there, and i don't know diddly about penguins, so that's it.
now if Linus was taking them onstage and biting their heads off in some bizzare ozzy/satan worshipping ritual, i'd be mostly against that.
if you have read the excellent book "Endurance", about Ernest Shackleton's failed trip across the south pole, then you would know something about dead penguins. They killed hundreds, even thousands, of penguins to survive -- not for fun or sport, but to stay alive. they even ended up killing and eating their sled dogs, as well as plunging their hands into steaming seal entrails for comfort from the bitter cold.
trapped in the antarctic, with no food, nearly anyone would do it. st00pid vegans, who hears the silent scream of vegetables as they are torn from the ground? how many bacteria did you wipe out with your birkenstocks today, as you worked your way up the line for government cheese?
"Look kids, I love animals. I have a house full of rescue animals. I also took the time to wander over there several times and talk to the trainer. This woman is simply passionate about those animals. They have a 1000 gallon swimming pool and a concrete house in her backyard. They seem to have better lodgings than many of my friends. The animals were just fine. They got regular breaks and tons of fish. "
1000 gallons? Where I grew up we had a people swimming pool that was 30,000 gals, and even that wouldn't seem large enough to keep a penguin happy. I agree, leave the animals out of the people events, they do not want to be there, I guarantee it. In fact, most people would not want to be there, free food or otherwise...maybe free beer...did they give the penguins beer?
Chris
What's a soul?
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
Personally, I'd like to see a gnu at GNU expo. An ungly camel or two at Perl gathering. A gnu hurd at GNU Hurd announcement. (with stampede prevention prepared.) A bison at Bison conventions. A lethal python at Python congregations.
And as others have said (thank you), a demon at BSD shows. Also, a gnome at GNOME conference is important too.
Lastly, Linux wouldn't be anywhere without it's cute penguin. Thank you, I love you peguin. kisses xxxxx
Xah
xah@best.com
http://www.best.com/~xah/PageTwo_dir/more.html
"Perl my ass -- there are more than one way to express love too."
Hey, I AM a vegetarian. BUT I think PETA should get that stick up their ass and stop trying to force their belifs on other people. This sounds like what the church did in the middle ages, when you think about it (give or take a few deaths). The Church made people be Christian (or Catholic - - whatever...) or they were driven out. In the same sense, we ALL have to be tree huggers or we WILL be ridiculed. The only reason I became a vegetarian was to test my will power, but right about now some raw penguin flesh sounds yummy.
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
jdube is who
(Of course, if you're a Whovian, a daemon is also a being who is enormously wise, causes massive temperature changes, and likes mucking about in small villages.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...the difference is, that hot place you are talking about is the daemons natural habitat.
Phobos - Greek word for fear or flight
and no i dont eat them
I am not ashamed to say that I eat animals. When someone comes up with a good reason why dogs, cats, wolves, coyotes, tigers, bears, etc. should feel guilty for eating other animals, then I will rethink my position. Heck, a lot of PETAphiles don't even know that pigs are not herbivores -- far from it, they are occasionally cannibalistic. The reason you have to be so careful about properly cooking pork is because our digestive system is so similar to that of pigs that we are susceptible to the same intestinal tract parasites. A lot of PETAphiles also assume that humans are the only primates that are omnivorous, which is also incorrect. It is common for many other primate species to eat insects (and yes, bugs do count as animals), and some large primates will occasionally catch and eat other types of animals.
If I was intended to eat only plants, I would probably have no canine teeth and two stomaches.
PETA is an organization which has only three voting members (by its corporate charter). One of the three, Ingred Kirkman, has been quoted in Harper's magazine as wanting to abolish companion pets - people having cats and dogs, etc as pets. She is also considered to be the most influential person at PETA - one PETA employee described her as "Being PETA". So, *at least* a third of, and the most influential third, of PETAs voting membership want to abolish our having pets. Also, I have a number of relatives who would not be alive today if it were not due to the various drugs that they need. Drugs that were developed and tested using animals. Animal rights advocates claim that there are other ways to do this, but their claims have been shown to be based on bogus evidence. By the way, I think that the title "Animal Rights" is a real joke. After all, a lion (or dog or cat) would think that it is their "right" to eat another animal. And isn't it Tux's right to eat all the herring he can? -BTOS
I could not believe the way those penguins were being treated. I was appalled to see them running around the convention, people poking and prodding them. I did the only thing I could, and took them away. I can't wait to get home and eat those penguins.
Tux and his friends can not be caged for long. They will rise from the dust of commercial software, spread their wings and soar (kernel 3.0 probably) over the corpses of those monopolists who would make them into a display.
As for the birds at the expo - I'd like to know who is responsible for using a living thing as a gimick. It's an insensitive thing to do. The people who would do this, would certainly not care much about their customers or the quality of their products.
Cutsey gimicks are great. Stuffed and inflatible Tux caricatures are emblematic of Linux, and the Tux logo is our banner. But please, let's show some respect for living things, and let's - if nothing else - not make ourselves targets for unnecessary criticism by proxy.
I'm not one to chain myself to an oak tree, but really, using a live animal in a display/advert shows a particular marketting mentality which does not benefit Linux or the Open Source movement in the least. Those of you at the expo, please take a minute to reflect about the impact of hype, about whom it harms, and make your opinion known to the penguin handlers.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Pangea has a website - http://www.pangeaveg.com Also, I can reccomend the "ranger" hiking boots from Ethical Wares, available in USA through Pangea - Vibram soles and a copy cat Gore tex called hydro-tex
If you seek logical arguments for AR, check the following:
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Damn, it would be difficult to keep up with the competition for the other P language (Python).
it warms my heart to know that you will die so much sooner because of your crappie diet.. For a second there, I thought I would have to deal with you forever
It is this kind of attitude that makes the sane look upon the PETAphiles as the loons they are.
For your information, roasted bird (as opposed to deep fried anyway), as part of an otherwise balanced diet is one of the healthiest things you can eat.
I guarantee that if someone was eat nothing but deep fried breaded tofu, potato chips and dougnuts and other similar stuff that is all-vegetable that they would be less healthy than someone who eats a balanced omnivorous diet. There are a lot of all-vegetable foods that are full of fat and empty calories.
A lot of the people I know that are vegetarian aren't that healthy (most of them are major-league hypocondriacs), nor do I see any real evidence that they really have significantly longer lifespans than other people who live in the same area that eat a sensible diet including meat.
"Meanwhile human beings are suffering around the world. If they want to waste time bitching about penguins that are obviously well cared-for, while human beings are living out on the streets wondering where they will get their next meal from, well they can just kiss my /dev/ass"
This is the classic, and grossly flawed, argument used by anyone who doesn't agree with animal rights/civic rights/environmental rights/etc. The argument appears to be "If you don't fight for EVERYTHING, then damn you hippocrite, how dare you fight for SOMETHING." That's Bullshit plain and simple, and thankfully the vast majority of people see it as bullshit. I may not agree with the people of PETA, but I greatly respect the care, concern, and conviction that they show in their work.
HTTP://www.Animal-liberation.net
includes a How-to :) So far they have held to their "no Human or non-human animal has been injured" in their direct action events. Even in their torching of the ski lifts in Vail, Colorado, no creatures were injured.
Although this is an argument that usually goes nowhere, a continuing theme in this thread is really starting to piss me off : The idea is that PETA has their priorities screwed up and they should be spending their time feeding the homeless and fighting war criminals in Rwanda. Maybe they can overthrow Saddam while they are at it.
Although I am not a member of PETA, and indeed I disagree with many of their strong armed tactics, these people often dedicate their LIVES for their cause. They spend countless hours fighting for an issue that they feel is underadvocated (and I definitely agree with that. Just looking at the foolish postings in this thread proves that). Now I ask those complaining about PETA's "screwed up" priorities: What are YOU doing to better the world? Unless you have an equal dedication to bettering the condition of the living animals on this planet, you should seriously consider the position from which you are arguing.
As mentioned in another thread, there is another falsity in the common anti-PETA argument: "If they aren't fighting for everything, then they are hippocrites for fighting for something". i.e. "There are bigger priorities", "What about the Rwandans!", etc. No one can fight for everything, and everyone chooses a cause that they feel is critical in their lives. For someone to criticize them for not fighting for everything is ridiculous and detrimental to the human condition.
From Jargon File (4.0.0/24 July 1996) [jargon]:
/day'mn/ or /dee'mn/ /n./ [from the mythological meaning, later rationalized as the acronym `Disk And Execution MONitor'] A program that is not invoked explicitly, but lies dormant waiting for some condition(s) to occur.
daemon
"If the great Zuzu didn't want people to eat people, why did he make them out of meat?"
Evolution is one of several companies that put out vegetarian cat and dog food. Your pet depends on you, why subsidize cruelty to one animal to feed another? ( BTW, Food for life is a vegan/vegetarian charity for humans :)
I love plants and believe they are being cruely mistreated every time someone fixes a salad or cooks green beans. How sad that our culture would murder countless millions of plants for culinary pleasure. And that's not to speak of the plants in captivity forced to live out their lives in little pots stuck in some hot window-sill. Shudder to think of it...
oh wait, you said "if"
(a joke is just a toke with a j)
+&x
If any penguins ever shit on your car, I will personally come and clean it off.
>did they give the penguins beer?
:)
Yes, but then someone slapped the GPL on it, and they had to share
I heard the rumor that the penguins were lethargic, unhappy, and being mistreated. So, instead of just going blithely along with rumor, I went to find out for myself.
I spent about 20 minutes talking with the lady about her little friend. Watching the animal's reactions, etc. The penguin was fine. Perhaps not as happy as she would have been, being at home with her mate, but she was alert and friendly.
She (the penguin) was born and raised in captivity. Her handler has been her only owner, and she was very affentionate with her handler, preening her while we were standing there. The penguin (I think her name was Lucy) is about 12 years old, and is one of 6 penguins that the lady takes care of. She takes the penguins to educational talks, and the like, so the animals are well used to the crowd. Lucy was quite OK with various strangers reaching out and petting her.
Now, when you think an animal is frightened or unhappy, you can look for body language that is very similar to a human's. Lucy evidenced no signs of unease. She was not shaking, cringing, crying out or poking at all the people around her. She was snuggled into her handler's arms, and preening her. Lucy's feathers were not mangy, broken, or dirty, nor were there any missing patches of feathers from the 'stress.' She was very alert, and comfortable.
Yeah, there are reasons to leave animals in the wild. However, there are also advantages to captivity. Lucy (and her pals at home) should live to be 25-30 years old. The same can't be said for her wild cousins. She has a safe, stable home. A concrete house all to herself, with a beachj and water? Who wouldn't go for that?
I appreciated the experience. From my observations, the animal was well treated and loved. I see nothing wrong here.
*** A witty saying proves nothing. *** Voltaire ***
Two penguins walk into a bar.
One turns to the other and says, "You look like you're wearing a tuxedo."
To which the other replies, "Maybe I am."
DITTO
But most people say, is that animals are just that, animals, and they don't count. If you are identifiying yourself with them, then that's the problem. Most people don't care about roaches suffering, so identification is their main problem.
Yeah, I'm a vegetarian, yeah I think that other animals should not be used for the sole benefit of human animals.
I don't. Most people don't. The law doesn't.
BTW - ever bite down on one of those hooks of yours? You know, just to know what it's like? I bet you don't have the guts to do what you think is no big deal.
Yes, biting down on a sharp hook is probably very uncomfortable to a fish.
But it's the repeated clubbing on the head you have to administer to make the things stop flopping about in the boat that must really hurt.
I mean, were they, Open Source Penguins?
... being locked up in a cage surrounded by Linux geeks is something we should only do to E*Trade executives ...
Sheesh, stick with the stuffed penguins, guys
Will in Seattle
Wouldn't work. Beowolves eat penguins. ;-)
It's what my small, select group has, that your's doesn't. And since you don't have it we can kill you.
>>Yeah, I'm a vegetarian, yeah I think that other >>animals should not be used for the sole benefit >>of human animals. >I don't. Most people don't. The law doesn't. Since when did the majority & the law make x thing the correct answer? In that case, you shouldn't be using linux & if reverse engineering becomes illegal & it'll correctly be so by your accounts since it'll be the law. btw, I do.
Hey retard, humans are made of the exact same "meat" as most animals. Does god want us to eat ourselves too?
Yeah, well, I'll conjure Adhurartasia on your ass.
Dan
It's boring, and stupid, and fish tastes nasty too.
My philosophy:
"If you're gonna kill it, you should eat it." Jeffery Dahlmer took it a little far, IMO.
Dan
So the difference between the Linux crowd and the mainstream is that they use half-naked chicks to promote their wares at trade shows and we use innocent animals? I'm sooooo proud...
Ade_
/
Big Bubbles (no troubles) - what sucks, who sucks and you suck
I am appalled at the vegetarians! Plants are people too! How dare you murder poor defenceless plants. I think it is so stupid that a farmer brags about how he harvested/killed 20 acres of corn. Wow, he outsmarted corn.
Well, form a union. If you are not courageous enough to do that, shut up.
--
...the way they have been treated has been fowl.
F*ck Kevin, FREE 'DA BOIDS!!
:)
Killing spammers is too good for them.
> Yes, but then someone slapped the GPL on it, and they had to share
Then each of the penguins made their own changes, and redistributed the beer... now this is getting disgusting. :-)
I know very few people who have who continue to fish after they have THOUGHT IT THROUGH. Do you really think it doesn't hurt the fish? Or if you think it does hurt the fish, have you thought about what you are doing knowingly hurting animals? A lot of people think there is a RELATIONSHIP between the attitude that lets people rip up the mouths of animals without thinking about it - and the number of people suffering in the world.
Except you're wrong. Science has proven no such thing. In fact the mouth area is where they have conecntrations of nerves.
I'm definatly against animal cruelty, but it doesn't seem like these penguins were being mistreated. Of course, I didn't see them in person, so I may be sissing something here.
If it weren't for the creationist bilge we've been getting in the recent evolution stories, I'd think this guy was a spoof.
Most of what's being said there is straight from R. J. Rushdoony (who really does exist, though he may have died by now), and/or Paul Weyrich. It's no joke. They're planning to take over. I doubt that they'll succeed, but they can do a lot of damage just by trying. Hell, look at Kansas.
Cool. I was wondering what the names of the Penguins were. We know one would have to be Tux.
So one was called TLC too? Was that the one that always wolfed down the fish? Greedy little thing.
But now we know why it needed so much energy.
I just got those PETA pests to stop bugging a fishing club I belong to. They were on us for torturing fish with sharp hooks. Meanwhile human beings are suffering around the world. If they want to waste time bitching about penguins that are obviously well cared-for, while human beings are living out on the streets wondering where they will get their next meal from, well they can just kiss my /dev/ass
> Stop it, Ford. You're turning into a penguin.
> Couldn't resist... anyone why can name the sector they were picked up in wins a lifetime supply of o2.
ZZ-9-Plural-Z-Alpha.
I want it in 2 Liter bottles.
Bringing live animals to a convention where 1000's of people are going to be at an unsually short distance from these penguins is not bright. These animals didn't have a say in the matter and suffered the consequences if scared. Were they scared? Some say no, and that there is no way of knowing either way. My dad is an ornothologist and he pretty much declared this a nice terrorization of these poor birds. I'm not saying it was purposeful, but perhaps in the future, one will be more thoughtful to the mascots, more so than American Varsity boys are to their rivals'.
Eating animals is the cause of heart disease and many cancers.
More importantly, most people don't know about the ecological problems of modern hog and chicken farm methods because they don't know what's been going on in recent years with the large corporate farms (and payoffs to politicians to allow it to go on.)
My creator isn't dog (or god, or however you wish to spell it). But you're entitled to your interpretation of the past.
Your attitude about what it means to be an American citizen belongs in a theocracy like Iran. Go there now, and fight some infidels. We don't need a bunch of priests shaking their rattles around the place here in the United States.
You can stay if you promise to be nice. But if you insist on engaging in public acts with your holy whore, we will have to ask you to leave.
Christianity is based on sadomasochistic ritual and imagery anyhow. The wasted young body of Christ on the cross. Think about it next time you see one of those most pogniant crucifixes. It gets the Nuns all bothered, to be certain.
OF COURSE people who care about how animals are treated also care about how people are treated. In fact, people are starting to realize that there is a REALATIONSHIP between how people treat animals and how they treat other people!
Ok, while it is good to see many concientious people voicing their concerns, a lot of extraneous non-issues are being brought up. While there is a lot we don't know about the animal kingdom in general (humans included) a good bit is know through Veteranary research, Animal Husbadry, Professional Animal Trainers and Behavioral Psychologist just to name a few. To both PETA members and their detractors - I recommend you spent time learning about (scientifically and empically), getting to know and caring for a non-human individual.
Below are some important issues for consideration.
1) Were the penguins captured in the wild or were they raised in captivity. If they were raised by humans in captivity, humans are what they identify with. They are no longer wild and they wouldn't know how to live in an wild colony. This is neither bad not good, just a fact of their existence like being born in Oshkosh or San Pedro.
2) If they have been raised by caring and inteligent human, then they have formed a cross-species bond. Thus, these penguins are most comfortable when they are with their family (read owner, caregiver, provider, etc).
3) While zoos are not natual habitats, there things that make artificial habitats comfortable - even desireable to animals. Much of it is species and individual specific and little of it has to do with what we think it should look like. Setting up a minature SeaWorld may make you feel more comfortable but it doesn't mean that the penguin would appreciate it at all. It takes a person who is experienced both with the species and with the individual to determine what is needed to make the individual animal happy. For most animals, it starts with food, shelter and being near other creatures you reguard as caring and familiar. While a pen may seem small by human standards, the important consideration is the animal's comfort. A responsible, caring owner would be albe to tell if their animal was cramped and uncomfortable.
4) While the above is true animals that are stressed do exibit some common behaviors - pacing, refusal to eat, aggressiveness. Pacing, which many animals held in old zoos have exibited, is a sign of bordom. But there is a difference between pacing - in which an animal seems locked in a trance, and walking about looking at your surroundings.
Agressiveness to a stranger can be many things but aggressivness to ones owner is a definite sign of a problem. If an animal is not exibiting fight or flight behavior with their caretaker, then they are probably well cared for.
5) I do recognize these penguines. They are a breed commonly refered to as the Jack-Ass penguine. While in the wild they spend a lot of time in the ocean, they form their breeding colonies on the Western coast of equitorial Africa. Thus they were probably quite comfortable with the temperature in an air conditioned convention center.
6) If it is true that these penguins have been working in movies and entertainment with their owner for a long time then they are accustomed to being around strangers. The important thing to them is that their owner (someone they know and trust) was there and signaled to them (through voice patterns and body language) that everything was OK. Also, if they have been working with their owner for a long time, they must trust and feel comfortable with her: unhappy animals don't work.
Definitely lame. Poor guys.
Errr, ummm.... how much is '98 retailing for again? Just outa curiosity, ya'unnerstand.
oh and ah, how scanty are you talking about?
Killing spammers is too good for them.
Um, just an example. Read:
Heroic PETA Commandos Kill 49, Save Rabbit
"Old man yells at systemd"
Before you say something stupid, this argument actually have some meat to it. I mean when was the last time soemone stood up and defended the rights of cockroaches? They are stepped on, bug sprayed, fried, and toasted on a daily basis and no one cares. So therefore, they are perfect mascots to put in conventions like LinuxWorld. We wouldn't have PETA crying that the cockroaches cages are too small and that they are stressed. There is another compelling argument here also. Think of cockroaches as a representation of Linux deployment. If you see one chances are is a nest of them around your house, similarly if you see one Linux server, chances are your IT guys have deployed a nest of them in your company without you knowing it (think beowulf). Lastly, cockroaches are hard to kill. There are a gazillion of them. [insert image of Bill Gates stepping on some cockroaches and yelling, "why don't they [linux] just die!!!"] Last and final argument here, cockroaches are free. No need to rent them like the LinuxWorld people rented those professional penguins. No need to feed them either, just one shoe bottom and they're gone to meet their maker(s).
I will travel to see that.
If Tcl (tickle) was given out at the conference, that would lead to a lawsuit.
If PETA would just screw their heads on straight, along with all those other "animal rights activists" (not all of them, just the extremists like PETA and those that give 'animal rights' a bad name), we wouldn't have to put up with articles like this.
Read the article. They were trained penguins. They were used to doing stupid tricks and shows like this -- heck, they were even penguins in Batman Returns! It's not like someone just ran to Seaworld California and stole a couple of the warm-climate penguins from the area outside the penguin complex.
And of course, here comes PETA, the same people who dress up as a Tuna fish and go to a Houston, TX elementary school to tell kids not to eat fish or meat... And plague hunters, without whom the animal population would become to large and die off anyway... Who are well beyond liberal... The fact of the matter is that PETA would come to my house and say that my having a Guinea Pig in a cage is wrong, and that it should be a free-range guinea pig.
How on earth you can be a nerd/geek and a PETA member, I'm not quite sure... All my fellow nerds/geeks think clearly, which is something PETA oft demonstrates they simply cannot do. They complain about sharp fishing hooks, not having vegetarian meals in school cafeterias (which there ARE, if you ask for them), how animals shouldn't be caged, how it's wrong to eat meat, how hunting hurts animals and we should leave them alone, et. al. They can take their vegan lips and kiss my penguin-loving butt.
Not all penguins live in cold climates, and when they are trained penguins, they're undoubtedly used to their cage. These aren't wild penguins who just got shoved in a cage. The one thing that really bugs me about this irresponsible piece of journalism is how they used showgoers' thoughts on the penguins. Do you think an NEC rep is really going to know what a frightened penguin looks like? Give me a break.
There is idots everywhere. Just look at Slashdot... But don't confuse them with what it's really about. The huge amount of suffering stupid prejudices causes is real and the ethics and arguments behind the right to equal consideration of interests for sentient beings it is rock solid.
...but Micro$oft could use that against us.
The Penquins looked unhappy because they did not get in on the ground floor of the recent Red Hat stock IPO. I cant say that I feel much better! cheers, gbs
This all depends on which _god_ you mean. Not everyone worships a cult leader from the worst part of the Roman Empire. Ask different cultures, get different answers :)
As for humans not eating animals... I've got some bad news for you, sunshine. You are an animal! Homo sapien sapien to be exact. You also happen to be an omnivore. So yes, you were build to eat meat. Depending on what culture you come from, that may happen to include humans.
Back to the topic. PETA seems to have a nack for "helping" animals when they don't know anything about them. Take the octopus in LA, for instance. The local PETA chapter complained that it's cage was too small. It was made up of lairs, crevices, etc. But none of the PETA-ers bothered to read up on it and find out that THAT'S WHERE OCTOPI LIVE IN THE WILD!!!
Ignorance is no excuse, but certainly seems to be a motivator.
"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place."
- Mick Travis, "If..."
Since when does Tux wear a "Blue Tie"? I know the LWE Penguin may sport one, but it is not the "official symbol." Also, this didn't happen "recently." Do journalist double-check any facts anymore?
+--
stack. the off
+-- (Score:-1, Moderator on Power Trip)
Well, personally ... I haven't trained animals all my life or anything, but I've found that animals generally "raised"/trained to perform aren't generally "unhappy" if they're doing what they've been used to doing all their lives. It's one thing if the owners treat the penguins badly ... it's another thing if they're being well taken care of ... [a minor aside ... some dogs in New York City are being pampered than most of us ever will!!!] But I would say that the whole idea of having live peguins was cheesy ... why couldn't they have coded some cool 3d pengiuns doing stuff ... Frankly, if I wanted to see live animals performing trick, I'd go to the zoo, circus, or just watch TV or something ... when I go to a computer related convetion ... just give me the pure hardware/software/technology ... I'll be more greateful for that than watching to icebirds play around ...
(They've one -hell- of a New Year's party they have planned...)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
After two years of being involved with this community I've had enough. I've witnessed the Linux community go from a intelligent one to a group of teenagers ranting about something they don't have the first clue about. This just tips the iceberg!
I don't belong to PETA but I probably should. Why, cause I care for animals more than most of the worthless humans on this cursed planet. I really expected more from this community! Would Linus agree to this? If he would, than fuck him (obviously no better than the rest of the idiots on this planet).
To all those bitching about the ppl in Rawanda and stuff, I say too bad. Earth is too crowded as it is. I know "But what if you were in that situation?". To answer: I would die! Why? Overpopulation will kill us all anyway at this rate, and our animal friends! No need to take them out with us. They were here far before us and I really hope they are here long after us! And to think I wanted to go?!
And if my spelling is wrong, I don't care. I'm a CS student, not a fucking english major!
"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly." --Batman Costume warning label
The cage does look small, and I imagine the animals are subject to a lot of unhealthy stress being gawked at and handled by presumably hundreds of people. No, they probably won't die from it, but that's not the point. It simply was a bad idea and that is not an appropriate environment for wild animals.
Please afford our flightless feathered friends a small amount of respect.
Of course, they still spit, bite, and otherwise are ornery. Also very useful. Perfect mascot for Perl (grin).
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
i appreciate people's concern over animals but sometimes it gets out of hand. I never did understnad why people go nuts-O over animals when there are so many other more important things to protest. dont get me wrong, i love animals, and i love to help them, and no i dont eat them, but when you pick a cause to fight you should pick a good one. not to say that the little ones should be ignored, but you will accomplish much more by choosing a good fight. that being said, people should complain about rape, murder, theft, starvation, education, polution, and tabloids before they bring up penguins.
happy friday the 13th!
This was on a t-shirt I saw once. PETA Peope for Edilbe Tasty Animals
I can see where they're complaining. Penguins may be pretty good around people but they are still wild animals. It's just plain tacky to put them in a little cage like that with newspapers on the ground and put them up for display. If they wanted to have a real show and not piss of the greenpeace types they really should have set up a miniature version of the penguin habitat at Sea World (like a big terrarium/aquarium with a pool and rocks and ice and stuff) Now *that* would be classy.
A) I dont think the penguins endured any severe hardships. As someone already pointed out, these are trained penguins who apparently do this sort of crap fairly often.
B) I also dont think they belonged at the conference to begin with..Sometimes cute==stupid. By doing something as boneheaded as bringing live penguins to a convention you're *inviting* people to make accusations that youre mistreating the animals. I guess you cant expect people who make money off of parading penguins around at conventions to have enough intelligence to understand that concept, however.
Lets just hope this doesnt repeat itself at the next show.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
The www.theonion.net article is an f-ing joke you moron.
Hmm... over 100,000 human beings hacked to death with machetes in Rawanda, and nobody gives a damn... But let 'em spot a couple of penguins making a living uncle tomming for humans, and they go apeshit! All I'm saying is, if you're going to put a lot of energy into something, you should be choosing your causes just a little bit more carefully...
I was forced to use Magic once. Judging from their abilities to judge their user's happiness I'd have to say the penguins were very unhappy. Probably wishing for the rocket packs from Batman Returns.
-cpd
Dont get him started. :) We havent heard anything from Katz in the past week or so... dont jinx it :)
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
I still think it is a bad idea to have live penguins at a conference, at least it sounds like they did it right. 2 veteren penguins and their trainer. It still feels to me like they were "pimping out" the poor birds.
I did find the "deer in headlights" comment humorous. I may not be a penguin expert, but I don't think I've ever seen a penguin that had a look of happiness on it's face(except cartoon penguins). Atleast not how we, as humans, judge facial expressions. They are a type of bird, they don't display happiness the same way humans do. Even if they had the same mental capabilities they don't have the same muscles and bone structures we do.
Of course this is assuming the person that said the comment isn't a penguin expert either and doesn't know how to read penguin body language. I also really don't blame he/she for the comment. Many people like to project human attributes to animals. It is extremely common, and I don't think it is necesarily bad.
--
?
...since that's where this species hails from.
What a bunch of politicly correct crappola. I am a member of PETA. People who Eat Tasty Animals. Let's fry up a couple of birds
Penguins are not pet animals. They require special needs. I think PETA people are out of their mind too? But SLASHDOT IS GETTING PATHETIC, and so are the posters here. If Microsoft had a mascot, and did the same thing, you guys would be up in arms. /. credibility is going downhill fast
and by the way.. it's nice that you can make people feel bad for changing their minds.. thats pretty weak
Well, I for one would agree with the previous guy - it's funny how quickly they'll change their minds about using animals to help humans when it involves a member of their family. Then, it's morals be damned, a human life is worth more! Maybe it's a little mean, but it's very telling how strong these people's morals really are. (i.e., not particularly)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
I have mixed feelings about this. I would agree that people and PETA were overreacting (then again, PETA overreacts about almost everything having to do with captive animals), but I question whether mobile animal shows are really necessary just to promote an unrelated product. I'll discuss the presence of penguins first. For those that were worried about it, temperature, at least for the species used, was not a problem. The photo tells me that these were Humboldt Penguins, a semi-tropical species and -not- arctic or antarctic. Humboldts do just fine in temperatures that most people find comfortable. Somehow, I just can't see them wanting to lie down on any glaciers, as one other Slashdotter so eloquently put it. Bird performances of this nature are not rare. An upscale restaurant that calls itself the 'Rainforest Cafe' opened in one of our malls not too long ago, bringing with it a group of trained macaws and cockatoos. Whether exotic birds in a shopping mall is a good idea or not remains to be seen, but I will say that my wife and I (who have both had exotic animal handling and care experience) had a long talk with the handler on duty at the time. We're convinced that those birds, at least, have nothing to worry about. The birds at LinuxWorld were provided by a (supposedly) professional exotic animal supplier that was licensed to keep and exhibit them. Knowing what I do of the way a typical handler feels about their charges, I think I can say with confidence that the penguins were in good hands. If the noise and activity of a movie set didn't bother them, they're certainly not going to get riled about a trade show. Now, with all THAT said, I can voice my objection to the whole idea: If software or services are good enough in their own right, and presented well, they'll easily sell themselves to the market one is aiming at. Shameless and showy promotions should not be necessary. If Magic Software has to bring in a portable penguin show just to get their stuff to sell, then I have to wonder what kind of quality control they have. ;-)
Your catholic-baiting is seriously misdirected here. You're flaming a protestant post; please at least make an attempt to address protestant practices or theology in so doing. Among other things, I don't know of any protestant sect that does the crucifix thing. Their crosses tend to be uninhabited. High-church anglicans may be an exception to that, but if so they're just about the only one. And there is no such thing as a protestant nun, period.
Even though I'm a savagely anti-religious individual, I'm still profoundly embarrassed by your childishness and ignorance.
Since a majority of you ppl seems to find it perfecly acceptable to treat the poor flightless waterfowls like that, I would stronly suggest that for the next show, we could have Linus locked up in a little cage, suspended above the ground, next to the penguins. If it is such a relaxing time for it, I bet Linus would be more than happy to spend a few days in a small cage, while beeing oggled by his religious followers, who will have the oppertunity to interact with him, throw peanuts at him and feed him beer.
If there is a god, and they were just, then each person would be sent to the worst afterlife they have ever wished on another. I really like that idea on general principles, but what about all the people who'd like to see Hitler and Oliver Cromwell rot in hell?
Your "god" sounds like a judgemental, arrogant, psychotic, psychopathic, grade-A asshole.
Sure, but the one in the Bible ain't much better. Let's hope He's not the real thing -- because if he is, we're gonna be in deep shit.
"Judge not, lest you be judged." Remember that? "Take not the mote out of your brother's eye, until you have removed the stick from your own eye."
By now, it shouldn't be news to anyone that the Fundies ignore the parts of the Bible that can't be twisted into an excuse for bad behavior. Oh, well. Most religions seem to be a sort ink blot, on which the faithful project their own worst impulses. That's why religions that make sense don't often last: The incoherent, contradictory ones provide much more fertile ground for the self-justifications of assholes. Christianity, sad to say, is almost perfect: The "judgemental, arrogant, psychotic, psychopathic, grade-A asshole[s]" of the extreme right look at the Bible, pick out their favorite parts, and lo and behold! They see a God who's just as vicious and mindless as they are.
Well, uh, duh. Note the word 'hilarious' in the Subject line. :) Sorry, if anyone needs a disclaimer or something, the onion article linked above is, in fact, a joke.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Stop it, Ford. You're turning into a penguin.
Couldn't resist... anyone why can name the sector they were picked up in wins a lifetime supply of o2.
David
This sig left intentionally blank.
So far, only humans have taken me up on that, but it's worth a try.
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
They would, I'm sure, but Nyarlothotep and Cthulhu are all booked up until Jan 1, 2000. :)
(They've one -hell- of a New Year's party they have planned...)
...and then its straight onto the campaign trail. Cthulhu in 2000 baby! The viable 4th party candidate.
Hey, if the country is going to hell, might as well have someone who's personally familiar with it leading the way.
--sugarman--
Next time we should use monkeys.
leave me alone. i'm kidding.
Werd.
And the phrase "We're not in Kansas anymore" takes on a completely new meaning.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Why can't they use robot penguins? You know, the ones with missiles mounted on their backs? That would really scare the bejabbers outta Redmond!
Wackos . . . To get some perspective, though, the fundies are no crazier than the new agers -- and generally no more violent . . . Just better armed. :)
i reside in a windowless, poorly ventilated office - and i'm one of the lucky ones. how about cubicles, sick building syndrome, no ergonomic thought to the techies work environs....
_ ________
rant...rant...rant...
sure i feel sorry for animals, but there are a ton of us techies that have to work in deplorable lab conditions. where is our voice??
________________________________________
$which weed
It just seems like a bad way to show support for Linux by torturing real live penguins. Most of the Linux kernel hackers I know from IRC were a bit outraged. I followed Alan Cox's advice, and sent off an e-mail to PETA. I assumed that the people doing this were just stupid, not malicious. This article shows otherwise (the part about anticipating a bit of tentions). There was absolutely no reason for subjagating the animals to this. I mean stuck in that tiny cage, without climate control, surrounded by thousands of people at close range, just sounds like a horrible idea.
Those little buggers are jackass penguins from South Africa. In earlier times on the Cape, they were threatened by extinction because they were too social and too unafraid of humans. Hundreds of them would eat garbage then surround human camps honking like jackasses (they are very loud) demaning more food until some mad sailor unable to sleep went out and whacked a few hundred (I am not condoning this behavior). I ran into a little colony of maybe 25 in SA back in 1996 and they were completely unfraid of humans still (these were wild jackies).
They are thought in SA (as I hope my tale tells) to cause stress--not have much stress themselves.
Remind you of any humans in open source?
Certified Black Helicopter Pilot *** Unwitting Dupe of One World Gov'ment
I think we have found a new category of Frequently Posted Comments. It has already been observed that: "First Post", "Does it run Linux?", "Wow imagine running it on a beowulf!", and "Yeah but when are they going to release it under the GPL?" are required comments for any good slashdot article, now I would like to formally recognize a new ubiquitous comment: "You people would say different if Microsoft does it. You slashdotters are all hypocrites." I've seen it a few dozen times this month.
Yo, I love linux so much! Linux is my god, and yo, I don't care what people do as long as I keep my fresh copy of Debian on my system cuz thats the distro that the _real_ linux hackers use.. not crackers.. get it right.. I'm so great... Microsoft is so bad... I hate everything! Wooho! It's situations like this when I see complete morons coming together to be complete idiots about a situation that other people take seriously.. just because you are more concerned with how long you can continue an OS war and bitch about how other people use thier computers (and to think, we were bombing villages a few months ago) doesn't mean everyone else has to be completely ignorant and heartless about the world.. The entire linux community is so concerned with being so much better than everyone else, even the people in your own community. Its only software and yet people take it this seriously. Go read a book that isn't put out by O'Reilly... Maybe you'll learn that there is a world out there where maybe Animals should have rights.. or better yet, when people don't insult other people for their beliefs.... Welcome to 1984.. lets all think alike! Screw people with their own opinions! Read a fucking book thinkpol
Hmmm....penguins, PETA. Sounds quite appetizing. Pile on the lettuce, onions, hot peppers and a lot of mayo and we may have something here. I trust a nice white would be the beverage? Penguin: The White Meat for the GNU Generation
lol... seriously, I can't stop giggling... I can see the story now...
...otherwise the penguins might escape, and then grow to gigantic size. I've seen pictures of what giant penguins do to Microsoft employees. It's not pretty, and knowing Microsoft's lawyers, we'd have a hell of a lawsuit on their hands.
And gods help eTrade if the penguins didn't get to participate in the Red Hat IPO.
Finding God in a Dog
professionals, the birds are slaves? No, I'm a slave, the birds are pets.
They /should/ have been properly dressed, skinned, and roasted slowly over an open flame. Preferably with a nice wine sauce, served with a dill rice, maybe, and a cold Newcastle.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmm, fine eatin'.
Killing spammers is too good for them.
I would be willing to bet money those penguins live better than I do. Hell, I didn't even get to go to the convention. The animal rights people are just jealous and pissed off their windows machines keep crashing.
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|-_-| . o O ( bEef!)
It's not like they got the penguins piss drunk, threw them into a cage and shook it. They were put on display, petted and fed. Imagine a job that feeds you, pets, you and all you got to do is sit there and stare at whatever you want. That reminds me I hope there were some hot chicks there for the penguins to g-awk at.
There are bigger problems to worry about than whether a penguin was nervous in front of a crowd or carried in a small cage. Christ, I work in a small cage. We call them cubes . . . Maybe you're heard of them? Where are the People for the Ethical Treatment of Tech's (PETT)?
Besides, there's nothing like starting the morning with a nice can of Mountain Dew and a plate of batter-dipped fried penguin!
---
seumas.com
Unless the people who were complaining were hot Linux chicks. I'd feel sorry for the birds then.
Me: Oh, look at those poor little things... all caged up like that.
HLC: You're so sensitive. Will you have hot, steamy sex with me to the sound of Linus' address?
Me: Take a number, baby.
If PETA wants a case, they can look into getting RHAT shares for the birds--you know, commercial use of an image and all that...
Actually, even though I'm not an animal rights freak, I gotta say...the penguins there sounded like a bad idea. Linus met the mascot for the first time in an open-air zoo, where they were free to run.
Oh, and I kind of LIKE the idea of being able to interact with Linus and feed him peanuts and beer. Perhaps he would like it also. But that's just me.
But what do the penguins think? No one is asked them directly! They are being ignored intirely! This is OUTRAGEOUS I TELL YOU! Let's not start invalidating the penguins feelings now! How about the feelings of the fish the pengiuns eat! DAMMIT I WANT TO KNOW HOW THE FISH FEEL ABOUT GETTING EATIN! THE FISH ARE THE TRUE VICTIMS HERE! Fish are exploited by penguins daily. We should impose sanctions on Antarctica NOW! FREE THE FISH! iMob!
- Pig (too obvious)
- Bull (rear view?)
- Sloth ("Heeeeerrrrs Mike the Microsloth!")
- Dinosaur (obvious, but appropriate, especially T. Rex)
- Vulture
- Balrog (cool graphics possiblilites)
- Vampire or otherwise undead creature
Jeez, the possibilites are stunning. I kind of like the idea of a dancing T.Rex, with a straw hat, cane and big ol' grin that dances around looking cute and then periodically tears up something to bloody shreds (kind of like the Cat help animation).Anyone care to take a stab at it? A poll!! Definitiely should be a Slashdot poll!!
it warms my heart to know that you will die so much sooner because of your crappie diet.. For a second there, I thought I would have to deal with you forever
Did you actually bother reading some of the comments posted? Yes, some people do not care, yet there are plenty of people (myself included) who do not like the idea of misusing animals in such a manner (although, personally, I'm not very zeolous on the subject, especially since I do eat a moderate amount of meat and other animal products which is much worse and affects a larger number of animals).
True, some of the people who show a lack of concern probably would complain if they saw that PETA was after Microsoft for the use of a mascot. But many, if not most, of those who showed little concern would show little concern if Microsoft and PETA were having it out.
As for slashdot "losing credibility," your talking about the part of slashdot that amounts to an editorial bulletin board. If a newspaper publishes a letter to the editor that is pure crap, that does not reduce the newspaper's credibility. In any case, slashdot's main function is linking stories from outside sources that may be of interest. The comments are optional and do not detract from the quality of the outside stories that are linked.
Is anybody else sick of that penguin being attached to everything Linux-related? C'mon, Linux is an OS, not a logo. I would rather have the effort currently going into "cute" penguin merchandise, packaging, promos, trade show gimmicks, etc. go toward actual software development instead.
Uh I beleive you mean Asmodeus and Beezebub. A minor entity such as yourself should not go throwing the ancient ones name around so easily.
for me, an animal has an extremely limited amount of say about its treatment. People can talk, but an animal just has to hope its behavior is enough to get the message across... Just because other problems exist in the world doesn't mean that everyone should ignore animal welfare in favor of all the other problems - then no one would take care of the animals. I don't think that they should come last on the list. (Sorry for the overly-cheesy philosophical bent) I think that when people treat animals with dignity and respect, that they then tend to treat other humans with more respect. All life is interconnected, it just doesn't make sense to ignore one piece of it.
How does this apply to the penguins at LinuxWorld? While these particular two penguins may have been the best choice for live penguins at the show, I don't think they were appropriate for that sort of atmosphere. I think the company will be remembered as "That company that thought it would be cute to have real penguins in a little cage. Feh!" Frankly, a convention atmosphere is almost cruelty to humans... let alone animals.
Leilah
~ Leilah
Paying their handlers to exhibit them just ensures that more penguins will be trapped in the wild, carted around in tiny cages, and stressed-out by hundreds of grabby humans.
Jamie McCarthy
Jamie McCarthy
jamie.mccarthy.vg
Yeah, some people may take the animal rights things to far, but admit it - it was a bad idea to bring the penguins there. They don't belong on a trade show floor(hell, do any of us :) - plus it is just "traditional media" grandstanding to bring in live animals to promote a product. Let the company know how lame of an idea it was.
LOL!!!
/. :)
Brother/sister, it warms me to the heart to know that the you'll sleep better for that.
I hate to be the one to break the sad news to you though neighbor, but I'm healthy and big as an Ox (and probably smell just about as bad;). Why? Because I eat a balanced diet of proper _flesh_and_ blood_ for my protein (mmmmmmmmmm, mmm, veins in ma' teeth) with veggies and grains. I don't spend my time chewing tofu and wondering if some sloth is being mistreated.
Ye Gods, I love
Killing spammers is too good for them.
...please. It does mention they were African penguins.
The streets will flow with the blood of the non-believers --thinkpol
I'd guess it's because /. has been down for most of the day but so far no one seems to have asked the two most common questions:
:)
1) Can they run Linux?
2) Can we turn them into a Beowulf cluster?
Hmmm... would that be animal abuse?
------
IanO
------
Objects in Mirror are Losing!
I realize that this may be a very stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway. Who/what are "Nyarlothotep and Cthulhu"?
Besides that, if they actually had daemons, I know I'd be going.. hee hee hee
Insert mind here.
I think this is really (mostly) a question of how one feels about circuses, Sea World and the like (which have huge numbers of visitors every day!) and also whether the animals were mistreated.
I don't mind animal performers as long as they aren't mistreated. I don't think that by definition animal performers are mistreated, as some do. So, I guess I'd have to see how the penguins were treated and judge for myself.
Kind of pointless to bring them to a Linux convention though, are the two major political parties going to have their animal mascosts at their conventions?
Incidentally, my latest Libertarian newsletter suggested penguins for the party mascot, because it seems quite a few of us are Linux users... but I think this may be unfair since some Linux users are communists, utopian socialists, Republican, Democrat and other non-Libertarian parties. So, they probably wouldn't appreciate an appropriation of the Linux mascot.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I think these cute, cuddly jackass penguins have a right to attend Linux World. In fact, it's practically an obligation.
Therefore, I feel that the proper way to display them is in a refrigerated semi-trailer, with one side made of clear plexiglass, and a nice cool swimming pool stocked with live herring. Also, put a cheapo chaise lounge in there with 'em so that Linus can pose for pictures with a mai-tai in his hand.
Now, that would be the proper way to display those penguins! (IMHO)
Certified Microsoft Notworking Specialist
the lady beside that poor bird was actually caressing the bird's erogenous area.
If you've not noticed you're either blind or have never seen wild ones.
"Oooooh, spin my nipplenuts and send me to Alaska!" --Kryten
Killing spammers is too good for them.
Remember Herb Tarlick's dancing ducks and the stage was made out of a hotplate with foil over it? And he turned the heat up so they would "dance"?
Or the time they threw turkeys out of the helicopter cuz they thot they could fly?
It's very easy to tell if a bird is happy or not. I've lived with them for over 14 yrs. An unhappy bird will definitely let you know in many ways!
let me know if you see an idiot walking around with a leather belt, cuz im vegan and i don't have a leather belt, wallet, shoes, etc... and by the way.. it's nice that you can make people feel bad for changing their minds.. thats pretty weak
Oh wait, I meant to say Linux works on small, cramped boxes. Penguins, Linux, cages, computers... it must be a Friday. Lighten up, If birds were meant to rule the world, they would have invented a free OS.
maybe at the next Perl con they should have Llamas! be kinda kewl... but some dumb**** would sue the llama for spitting on them... and some other tree-huggin animal rights freak (not saying that's a bad thing, my girlfriend is one) would countersue on the behalf of the llama and would make millions off the lawsuit and run away to switzerland with the money... also, the person who got spat upon would get chewed out by some crazy vegan for wearing animal byproducts... then a fight would erupt, and the llama would step on them both! and the world would laugh.
Yeah I'd rather be a pet then an employee. Ya know every time I see a real live pengiun a little voice inside me says "waaalking footbaaall, waaaaalking footbaaall, go for the field goal!"
Anybody else?
If you're talking about the one at the Scarborough Town Centre, of course the birds are not going to be harmed. Scarborough is a barren wasteland anyway, where the animals will feel right at home.
LET'S VOTE EVERYONE!
What about the BSD mascot? Isn't the little daemon forced to live in a place where it is excessively hot? Haven't fire and brimstone been found to be cancerous?
/* No, I'm not condoning cruelty to animals or belittling the objections of animal advocates. */
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
Yeah PETA is about as logical and reasoning as most religous fanatics. With all that people are no better then animals and shit. Knew a gal once who was so animal protectionist it was scary. That was until her daughter was born a diabetic and needed insulin. We layed it on *real* thick for her. Funny how she changed her tune about animal research so quickly when it meant saving sombody in her own family. Also next time you see a animal rights fanatic, take a *good* look at thier shoes, belt, purse and wallet. Then feel free to point out their hypocrisy.
There freaking birds. I don't hear any complaints about the rats, kittens, snakes, tarantulas, crickets or fish that are kept at the local mall pet store!!! You wanna see scared and traumatized check out the tiny glass case thay keep the scorpions in. And the case of Pythons is far too small for a wild snake!!! Sheesh, it is a bird. They live, they die, they poop on the newspaper, so what. Complain about smog effects on sparrows, or the old lady feeding processed foods to the pigeons in central park. I'll call you stupid just the same. They're fricking birds. They don't care.
--"Cynical?? Who's cynical???" -k-
eh, what? Linus Torvalds = Finland, land of deer and elves. Polar Bears = artic Penguins = Antartic
hahaha... --thinkpol -- by the way, yes, I am vegan, and yes, I don't really care.. I'm just joking around
I have a pet parrot. A domestically raised, pet bird. He is more than happy to see visitors of any kind. Birds are very social animals. I can't see how performing penguins that have been domestically bred, and raised by humans can be all that different from my bird. My bird spends most of the day in a cage. I suppose that's cruelty also. I suppose that the time he spends snuggling in my shirt is also cruelty because he doesn't have shirts to snuggle in in his native habitat. I also affirm that animal rights activists are a bunch of jackasses. They should spend more time and energy on decreasing the illegal importation of exotic pets. Something that there are already rules in the books for.
You didn't expect anything ethical from Israelis did you?
Having worked with Israelis and spent some time there, I'd expect about the same ethics as I expect from most Americans -- and considerably better than what I've seen from the sort of Americans who are paranoid about Israelis.
Make of that what you will.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
These animals are NOT wild animals, they were born and raised in captivity. Would these people be complaining if some more common domesticated animal were brought to the conference? I have a pet bird and a dog that I know would love to be around all those friendly people. You can't simply say definitively that all animals fear crowds.
In all of my expiriences with animals, each react in some degree in three specific ways when in threatening or stressful situations. They either fight, flee/become withdrawn if that isn't possible or they play dead. While I'm no Dr. Doolittle like our fine friends at PETA claim to be, these penguins were showing none of these reactions.
I have to agree with the first post the US media is full of whiners. That's my $0.02
--Let's hack root on 127.0.0.1 --panZ
A question arises as to who leased the animals to them in the first place and what were their comments as to where the penguins would be. I would think that the providers should be to blame knowing what conditions the animals would be exposed to.
These people and other animal rights activists have got to be the single most unintelligent bunch of people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter in my life. Example:
1. There was once a captive, record sized lobster on display at a resturant. Now mind you, this lobster's only fate was to be a well fed display piece at this resturant, he was in NO danger of being eaten. Some group broke in and tried to "save" this poor chap. In the process, they managed to break off a claw off this poor creature. To compound this lobster's misery, they forgot to remove the rubber band that they put on the lobster's other claw. So now we have a "saved" lobster with no means of defending itself till such time as it molts and grows his new claw. Given the poor creature's age, this will be a long time and he'll probally be eaten LONG before that happy day.
2. A group claims a victory in saving deer moose and elk. This really frosts me because it was nature that saved the project...not them. The plan was to move a population of each to an island in the great lakes. This island had no predators and no hunting was allowed. Much to my complete lack of surprise, they multiplied to numbers that the island could not sustain and the population was doomed to a long and slow starvation. In steps Mother Nature to the bat. A really cold winter causes the ice to freeze fron the mainland to the shore. Something that rarely occurs given the distance involved. Over this ice, a pack of really hungry wolves schleps over to this island looking for food and walks into paradise. A few years after that, there is now a healthy and managed population of deer, moose, elk AND wolf living in balance. Andthe animal rights groups say that thier project was a sucess. It was, but no thanks to the moron patrol.
If these birds were performers in the Batman movie, then they are in no stress. I wish I lived life as good as one of those birds.
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
I hope more jews there will change things. I hope the new isr4eli government does something about it.
Same as Firewall One stuff, they are so rude...
Summoning demons even as a joke is a very serious offence against GOD YOUR CREATOR. Then again, it's just the sort of "humor" I expect from secular humanist hate-groups like the BSD crowd.
The sick, twisted violence you have just directed against God and the Truth will not go unpunished.
As R. J. Rushdoony said, "Every non-biblical law is an anti-Christian religion" -- therefore, any law which permits the summoning of demons, is an anti-christian religion; any act which is not biblically justified is an example of a person becoming "a law unto himself", and therefore it is an example of an atheist declaring himself god and trying to become the DEITY of his own personal anti-christian religion. You have broken a very important commandment. In the process of so doing, you have renounced your American citizenship and declared yourself an outlaw.
(In my best Jon Katz style)
Geeks are commonly thought to be a kind, thoughtful group. Because they endure so much hatred and repression, they learn first-hand how it feels. Many geeks are vegetarians. Some are avowed pacifists with a deep aversion to America's growing culture of violence promoted by the mass media and the NRA. The Linux World Expo provided an opportunity for the intellectually superior to get together and demonstrate their kindness and overwhelming urge to share.
Just don't tell that to the penguins.
-- Anyway, you get the idea.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
In that case I'm sure there wouldn't have been a problem if you brought a fork and knife with you to eat the penguin on the convention floor!
Penguins probably understand approximately three things. Whether they're eating, whether they're able to mate, and whether there are any predators around.
I suspect they're doing quite well on two counts. As for the third, well, if I can live without it, so can they.
If God didn't mean for us to eat animals, He wouldn't have made them out of meat.
Ok so _these_ Penguins were captured alive, and put to work (unlike asian Oxen) for the benifit of Pro-Open Source humans. It is a well known fact that every subsequent Linux* conference will more of the many thousands of attendes, thus I contend it is rude to not bring enough Penguins for everyone, and worse to taunt them about.
The next LinuxWorld better have a TON of PenguinJerky, or IDG, is gonna stand for
"I Didnt Get" any PJ
JoeT
Joe Torre - X - HardwareEngineer @ Amiga Inc & ZapMedia Amiga, AmigaDE, BeOS, Linuxz, QNX, Rebol, Windoze, ZME: So
it's picture from the biodôme of Montréal, i don't know why /. do not accept IMG tag... so here's the link updated each minute or something like that.
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Who needs predators?
Killing spammers is too good for them.
Given that penguins in the wild are gregarious (or at least the Arctic types are) and these were raised by humans and calm enough to be rubbing beaks and eating treats, I suspect the only stress they might be experiencing is insufficent crowding.
Compare that to the life of a wild penguin - with predators behind every visual barrier - and you'll see these little birdies were likely in penguin heaven.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
They don't care about small animals like mosquitos! But if mosquitos die whats going to happen to birds who eat them? We should not kill any mosquito anymore.
Big animals like dogs are like human beings. The PETA people are dogs. How else would they know how the dogs or penguins feel?
The animal rights people never grew up to know they really are not dogs.
Wait, that's Vulcan...
;)
No problem, so am I (joking, that is
Killing spammers is too good for them.