You over estimate the average computer user. They just want to turn their computer on and have it work, not write their own drivers.
Take a look at all the open source 3D drivers for Linux today: there are probably about 25 people who regularly contribute(d) to the drivers and, again, most were paid developers.
Dinivin (posting at Ranessin because Slashdot insists I've already moderated this discussion and absolutely won't let me post as Dinivin).
I don't see it as a case where the government is taking away a right.
If that were the case, then why did Congress pass a law saying that states don't have to honor same-sex marriages from another state? I do view that as a right that, though it isn't being taken away, isn't being acknowledged and is being fought against tooth and nail.:-)
I live in a state that doesn't recognize same-sex partnerships. Hell, I live in a country that doesn't recognize same-sex partnerships. I live in a state where, if you're a black driver on the turnpike, you're much more likely to get pulled over. (On the news this morning), I live in a world where thousands of children have recently been sold into slavery. I live in a state where students are being sent home for wearing religious symbols in school. Would you like me to continue?
My apologies to the original poster. I must have misread what he wrote.
If not, then maybe you'll get worried later. Hope it will be soon enough to make a difference.
Of all my rights and freedoms that are being infringed upon, that particular one doesn't register too high on my list. IMHO, it's a shame that it seems to register so high on the list of so many people here when there are (again IMHO) much more important rights and freedoms being infringed.
In the same way that you (Danse) suggest it is my moral imperative to boycott all movies due to the MPAA views and actions regarding DeCSS, I could suggest that it's your moral imperative to boycott any state in the US or country around the world that doesn't recognize same-sex marriages (or any company that doesn't give benefits to same sex partners), what I view as a much more fundamental right than being able to play DVD's with a player the MPAA doesn't like. What does that teach us?
1) Not everyone views all our freedoms as being as important as everyone else views those freedoms.
2) Not everyone even views all the same things as being a right or freedom.
3) There are, for a lot of people, many more important things than being able to play DVDs with DeCSS. This doesn't make them wrong.
And I'm sure that there are plenty more that you extrapolate from our discussion.
Once again, the Slashdot community charges off to tell us about another movie tht is made by the MPAA, a group which has been (successfully) attempting to take down 2600, and trying to strip us all of our freedoms.
What a load of crap. I have yet to see them try to strip me of my freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
First, the V3 is supported under the DRI and under 3.3.6 (using Glide). The two S3 chipsets supposedly have acceleration under utah-glx, but I can't speak about it's stability or speed (though I'm doubtful that they really exist). The intel I740 is supported under utah-glx, as is the Rage Pro. The Rage 128 (if it's AGP) is *very* well supported under the DRI, giving better performance under Linux in many situations, than under Windows.
Of course, if you read the newsgroups/irc you will see lots of "It doesn't work for me!" posts. Why? Because people it works for don't usually come on and post "It works great for me!" Check out the Loki newsgroups. You'll find a lot of people who have 3D acceleration working great.
Finally, have you ever once e-mailed the developers of the drivers and told them your problems? I've been subscribed to the dri-devel mailing list for well over a year and have seen hundreds of people e-mail with problems only to have most of the solved in a very timely manner.
And why bother when I have yet to see any of my games consoles to crash?
Because game consoles cost so much more... Why buy a game console (which can't play Q3A, or UT) when I have a computer sitting on my desk capable of playing some great games?
Are you going to at least tell us what other cards you have in that lab?
I've gotten all of the following to work at home or work:
Matrox G400 Max
Intel i810
Voodoo 3
Voodoo 5
ATI Rage 128
ATI Radeon
nVidia GeForce2 MX (though both a TNT2 and GeForce2 GTS locked up my machine)
ATI Rage Pro
I've never understood why so many people complain about how hard it is to set up 3D acceleration under Linux.
I read the first book of the Otherland series. When the 2nd one came out, I purchased but decided to wait to read it till all the books were out. I waited b/w books with MST and when I reread it years later, I picked up so much more than I would have the first time around. So, instead of missing things with Otherland, I decided to wait. Now that there all out (or almost all out) I guess it's time to start fresh:-)
I stand in awe of your maturity. You're obviously an intelligent person with much experience on the matter.
Don't accuse me of spreading FUD, and I won't point out that you're a moron. Quite simple.
So the bug which causes the Radon to totally lock a machine with the Irongate chipset has been known by the DRI developers for 6 months, yet it still exists.
I did say usually. In either case, a bug is more likely to get fixed, in a timely manner, with open source DRI drivers than nVidia's closed source drivers. How long did nVidia users suffer with leaky drivers? At least with the DRI drivers, you have instant access to the code and can fix bugs yourself if you so desire.
BTW, is your second V5 processor supported yet?
No, but simply because 3dfx went belly-up at the time they were working on it. The same thing could, in theory, happen with any company. BTW, the Glide source code is out there. The only reason it hasn't been finished is because no one is interested enough.
n my personal experience, I've never been screwed with the NVIDIA drivers.
I was screwed for a very long time with no decent 3D drivers because they promised them and then took over a year to deliver. I am still screwed because their drivers don't like my system.
And that's one of the great things about the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series... Tad could have cut corners (dramatically) and slimmed down the last book (To Green Angel Tower) by a few hundred pages. Yet, he didn't. It clocks in at well over 1,000, but it's a thorough joy to read from beginning to end.
Having all the GNU tools doesn't do the revolution any good without a GNU kernel to run them on. Have a solid GNU kernel doesn't do the revolution any good with the GNU tools to run on it.
Good point... There are a couple of species of chimp (Bonobo is the best known) that will have sex anytime, anyplace, with anyone (male or female), for any reason. Find a food source? Have an orgy! Meet another tribe? Have an orgy! Wake up in the morning? Have an orgy! Finish eating? Have an orgy!
How is sodomy a natural act? Given that the sole purpose of sex is for procreation (in both a Biblical and biological sense no less), how is sodomy a "natural act"?
How the Hell do you know what the sole purpose of sex is? If it never occurred to you that one purpose of sex is pleasure, I feel sorry for you since you've obviously never had a great blow job.
With every post you demonstrate your ignorance of the human mind. We are constantly doing things for reasons we fail to understand, and the killers are no different in that regard. The average person doesn't turn into a homicidal maniac due to years of harassment. If they did, nearly every teenaged kid would turn into a killer. Psychologically there is something wrong with these kids. Trying to dismiss it by saying that these kids did what they did because they were harassed is simply trying to mask the symptoms and not find a cure for this illness.
I think I'll accept the words and actions of the people involved.
If you want to accept the words of murderers, feel free. I'm not so naive to blindly accept the words of homicidal maniacs who are probably doing things for reasons even they don't understand.
Slashdot Mirror
Please let us know what company you work for. I think most of us here would like to avoid it now.
You over estimate the average computer user. They just want to turn their computer on and have it work, not write their own drivers.
Take a look at all the open source 3D drivers for Linux today: there are probably about 25 people who regularly contribute(d) to the drivers and, again, most were paid developers.
Dinivin (posting at Ranessin because Slashdot insists I've already moderated this discussion and absolutely won't let me post as Dinivin).
(a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
OK. The content is as crappy as the spelling and grammar.
Ranessin
I don't see it as a case where the government is taking away a right.
:-)
If that were the case, then why did Congress pass a law saying that states don't have to honor same-sex marriages from another state? I do view that as a right that, though it isn't being taken away, isn't being acknowledged and is being fought against tooth and nail.
Ranessin
I live in a state that doesn't recognize same-sex partnerships. Hell, I live in a country that doesn't recognize same-sex partnerships. I live in a state where, if you're a black driver on the turnpike, you're much more likely to get pulled over. (On the news this morning), I live in a world where thousands of children have recently been sold into slavery. I live in a state where students are being sent home for wearing religious symbols in school. Would you like me to continue?
Ranessin
You did misquote the other poster though.
My apologies to the original poster. I must have misread what he wrote.
If not, then maybe you'll get worried later. Hope it will be soon enough to make a difference.
Of all my rights and freedoms that are being infringed upon, that particular one doesn't register too high on my list. IMHO, it's a shame that it seems to register so high on the list of so many people here when there are (again IMHO) much more important rights and freedoms being infringed.
Ranessin
OK... I can't just let this drop...
In the same way that you (Danse) suggest it is my moral imperative to boycott all movies due to the MPAA views and actions regarding DeCSS, I could suggest that it's your moral imperative to boycott any state in the US or country around the world that doesn't recognize same-sex marriages (or any company that doesn't give benefits to same sex partners), what I view as a much more fundamental right than being able to play DVD's with a player the MPAA doesn't like. What does that teach us?
1) Not everyone views all our freedoms as being as important as everyone else views those freedoms.
2) Not everyone even views all the same things as being a right or freedom.
3) There are, for a lot of people, many more important things than being able to play DVDs with DeCSS. This doesn't make them wrong.
And I'm sure that there are plenty more that you extrapolate from our discussion.
Ranessin
Hey, I'm just correcting Karma Sink who said that the MPAA is trying to "strip us of all of our freedoms." That just isn't true.
Ranessin
Once again, the Slashdot community charges off to tell us about another movie tht is made by the MPAA, a group which has been (successfully) attempting to take down 2600, and trying to strip us all of our freedoms.
What a load of crap. I have yet to see them try to strip me of my freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Ranessin
Sorry to hear you've had so many problems...
First, the V3 is supported under the DRI and under 3.3.6 (using Glide). The two S3 chipsets supposedly have acceleration under utah-glx, but I can't speak about it's stability or speed (though I'm doubtful that they really exist). The intel I740 is supported under utah-glx, as is the Rage Pro. The Rage 128 (if it's AGP) is *very* well supported under the DRI, giving better performance under Linux in many situations, than under Windows.
Of course, if you read the newsgroups/irc you will see lots of "It doesn't work for me!" posts. Why? Because people it works for don't usually come on and post "It works great for me!" Check out the Loki newsgroups. You'll find a lot of people who have 3D acceleration working great.
Finally, have you ever once e-mailed the developers of the drivers and told them your problems? I've been subscribed to the dri-devel mailing list for well over a year and have seen hundreds of people e-mail with problems only to have most of the solved in a very timely manner.
And why bother when I have yet to see any of my games consoles to crash?
Because game consoles cost so much more... Why buy a game console (which can't play Q3A, or UT) when I have a computer sitting on my desk capable of playing some great games?
Ranessin
Are you going to at least tell us what other cards you have in that lab?
I've gotten all of the following to work at home or work:
Matrox G400 Max
Intel i810
Voodoo 3
Voodoo 5
ATI Rage 128
ATI Radeon
nVidia GeForce2 MX (though both a TNT2 and GeForce2 GTS locked up my machine)
ATI Rage Pro
I've never understood why so many people complain about how hard it is to set up 3D acceleration under Linux.
Ranessin
If my mother is a hooker, stripper, prostitute, etc. it's her own damn business, not mine.
Ranessin
I read the first book of the Otherland series. When the 2nd one came out, I purchased but decided to wait to read it till all the books were out. I waited b/w books with MST and when I reread it years later, I picked up so much more than I would have the first time around. So, instead of missing things with Otherland, I decided to wait. Now that there all out (or almost all out) I guess it's time to start fresh :-)
Ranessin
Yes, the first few releases were a bit shakey, but from the 0.9.5 release on, the drivers were quite solid.
For you. There are still a lot of people who have problems with these drivers. I'm not alone.
Ranessin
I stand in awe of your maturity. You're obviously an intelligent person with much experience on the matter.
Don't accuse me of spreading FUD, and I won't point out that you're a moron. Quite simple.
So the bug which causes the Radon to totally lock a machine with the Irongate chipset has been known by the DRI developers for 6 months, yet it still exists.
I did say usually. In either case, a bug is more likely to get fixed, in a timely manner, with open source DRI drivers than nVidia's closed source drivers. How long did nVidia users suffer with leaky drivers? At least with the DRI drivers, you have instant access to the code and can fix bugs yourself if you so desire.
BTW, is your second V5 processor supported yet?
No, but simply because 3dfx went belly-up at the time they were working on it. The same thing could, in theory, happen with any company. BTW, the Glide source code is out there. The only reason it hasn't been finished is because no one is interested enough.
n my personal experience, I've never been screwed with the NVIDIA drivers.
I was screwed for a very long time with no decent 3D drivers because they promised them and then took over a year to deliver. I am still screwed because their drivers don't like my system.
Ranessin
except that there is no blind "here's the archetypal hero,
agree
here's the archetypal bad guy" stuff.
I certainly think Pryrates qualifies.. Hell, even his name sounds downright evil.
I still think it's a kick-ass series.
Ranessin
And that's one of the great things about the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series... Tad could have cut corners (dramatically) and slimmed down the last book (To Green Angel Tower) by a few hundred pages. Yet, he didn't. It clocks in at well over 1,000, but it's a thorough joy to read from beginning to end.
Ranessin
The NVIDIA drivers have been stable for quite some time.
Maybe for you, moron, but certainly not for everyone.
Ranessin
If you want to run under Linux with a card with a proven track record, buy NVIDIA.
If you can call unstable drivers that may or may not work for you a "proven track record"...
Ranessin
Then where is your kernel?
Ranessin
Having all the GNU tools doesn't do the revolution any good without a GNU kernel to run them on. Have a solid GNU kernel doesn't do the revolution any good with the GNU tools to run on it.
They're both revolutionaries in their own right.
Ranessin
Good point... There are a couple of species of chimp (Bonobo is the best known) that will have sex anytime, anyplace, with anyone (male or female), for any reason. Find a food source? Have an orgy! Meet another tribe? Have an orgy! Wake up in the morning? Have an orgy! Finish eating? Have an orgy!
Ranessin
How is sodomy a natural act? Given that the sole purpose of sex is for procreation (in both a Biblical and biological sense no less), how is sodomy a "natural act"?
How the Hell do you know what the sole purpose of sex is? If it never occurred to you that one purpose of sex is pleasure, I feel sorry for you since you've obviously never had a great blow job.
Ranessin
With every post you demonstrate your ignorance of the human mind. We are constantly doing things for reasons we fail to understand, and the killers are no different in that regard. The average person doesn't turn into a homicidal maniac due to years of harassment. If they did, nearly every teenaged kid would turn into a killer. Psychologically there is something wrong with these kids. Trying to dismiss it by saying that these kids did what they did because they were harassed is simply trying to mask the symptoms and not find a cure for this illness.
Ranessin
I think I'll accept the words and actions of the people involved.
If you want to accept the words of murderers, feel free. I'm not so naive to blindly accept the words of homicidal maniacs who are probably doing things for reasons even they don't understand.
Ranessin