I've tried 92, 93, and 94. I've read and reread the faq. I've e-mailed their support a couple times (and never got a response). I've gone to that irc channel, and never got any solution for the problem.
Frankly, 3dfx may not make the best cards. And they may have questionable business practices at times, but at least they've demonstrated the desire to keep me as a customer.
Oh, I like getting the ultimate in performance, too. And I don't mind rebooting to do it. However, I do mind being forced to reboot into one specific OS, the only OS that this card will perform in 3D under:-)
Actually, I've been on the IRC channel numerous times, and talked with various people. *None* have been able to help me. Numerous e-mails to their address have gone unanswered. Frankly, I'd rather support a company that wants me as a customer and is willing to demonstrate that fact.
Their driver can keep improving. I'm not likely to ever use them again. I already get accelerated 3D under Linux with a video card from a manufacturer that knows what they're doing:-)
"I don't think you can hold Nvidia responsible for the possibility that Linux support for you mother board is not quite perfect(If that happens to be the case)."
In addition, 3dfx and ATI don't seem to have that problem...
Perhaps... But since nVidia was promosing high quality drivers for their cards under Linux, that's what I expected:-) Not high quality drivers, but only if you have a particular mobo. None of my other cards have had the problem under Linux, nor have any of my cards (including my TNT2) had that problem under Windows.:-)
And in their defense, they did respond with a problem I first had just installing the drivers (the day they were released, in fact).
This TNT2 did not come with a fan, and since I never had this problem under Windows I didn't see how the card would be overheating under Linux. However, I did open up the case, and my computer is right next to the AC vent in this room, so everything should have remained nice and cool.
Anyway, you defend them because you like them. I criticize them because I've been so disappointed with them, their products, and their idea of "support," particularly under Linux.
I can get all the Mesa demos to work and have no problems with the GL modules from xscreensaver and xlock. However shortly after I start up Q3A, my entire machine locks up. UT did the same.
After some experimentation, I realized something interesting. If the PCI slot below my TNT2 was empty, it would work. This led me to believe that the TNT2 and which ever card was below it (sometimes a SoundBlaster Live, sometimes an Adaptec 2940, and sometimes an Ensoniq PCI) were having a conflict over an interrupt.
However,/proc/interrupts showed separate IRQs for each device.
If they hadn't been relased at all I would not be infinitely more screwed since they don't work in the first place. What's the difference b/w having non-functioning driver and not having non-functioning drivers?
Well, if those 100 developers could actually put out drivers that work, then I'd take them as well... However, the handful of developers working on the driver for the Voodoo cards have done an *incredible* job that actually works on my hardware.
"NVidia's Linux drivers are equivalent in speed and exatly equal in features to their Windows drivers. Sometimes, their Linux drivers are even faster."
Only if you can get them to work on your system. If not, you're screwed.
"Look, I care more for quality than a peculiar attachment to a particular OS. Right now, OpenGL on all the other consumer cards sucks compared to NVIDIA's. They're the only ones I can use for 3D Studio. They also have the most stable drivers, and I'm benifeting from all their driver work even though I've got an older card. That's real quality"
I care for both quality and my OSes of choice (linux and BeOS). 3Dfx has come out on top in that regard (although Matrox is probably right up there, too). They are the only ones I can use for Q3A. They have the most stable drivers under Linux, and their driver developers are responsive when there's a problem. *That* is real quality.
Which did me absolutely no good. I still get a lock up within thirty seconds of starting Q3A and UT. I asked a question, one responded (very nice and politely) and asked me to e-mail the question to their e-mail address since he hadn't heard of the problem. I e-mailed them the problem. Less than a week later I popped back onto IRC and asked the same developer. He was still no help. Another two e-mails to their e-mail address went unanswered. They lost a customer.
Funny... The other 3D drivers don't seem to have thoes problems... But then again, they're open source. I wonder if there's a connection?:-) So it doesn't seem to be a problem with the driver API, but with how the drivers where written:-)
"But given that the company does so much for it's users in a day where videocard companies are generally down the tube, I forgive them for it."
Down the tube? Like the various companies who are either writing their own 3D drivers for BeOS or assisting Be in writing the drivers? Frankly, I think it's nVidia that is down the tube.
Perhaps if they could put out quality, stable, Be and Linux drivers, I'd change my mind. But till then, I'm quite happy with my Voodoo5 which has 2D acceleration under Windows, Linux (and every other x86 XFree86 platform), and BeOS, and which has (or will soon have) 3D accleration under Linux, Windows, and BeOS.
1) As a Be fan, certainly your aware of how much trouble nVidia has given Be? Currently, anyone with a GeForce under BeOS is limited to using the Vesa driver, which is quite slow compared to all the accelerated drivers. This is not just for 3D, either, but 2D as well... This is not due to lack of interest in GeForce driver for Be, either, but the lack of technical information that nVidia is willing to give out.
2) My TNT2 *still* won't work under XFree86 4.0 with nVidia's 3D drivers. If I'm lucky, my server will last a whole 30 seconds after starting Quake3Arena before completely locking up my machine... So, I e-mailed their support. No response. E-mailed again. No response. Visited their IRC channel and received no help. I've tried every version of their driver and have never gotten it to work. However, every problem I've had with my Voodoo3 or Voodoo5 has been cleared up by the DRI folks within weeks, if not days.
3) How long was it before they released their drivers for 4.0? I remember the waiting, and it certainly couldn't be considered "shortly after the release of 4.0" as they claimed.
4) With all the time they had those drivers before releasing them, you mean to tell me that they never noticed the GPLed code?
"1) There are no HOWTO's or webpages dedicated to your card. When you ask a simple question, you will immediately be bombarded by three morons who say "why didn't you read through the last 712 messages! everything you need is there!""
Actually, everything you should need is really on these two pages:
The problem isn't how Netscape handles the website. If it doesn't render it well, I'll either not visit that site, or visit it with another browser. However, if a site keeps having an annoying window pop up on every page, I won't visit it again, with *any* browser.
Slashdot Mirror
Actually, my Voodoo card works beautifully under all the OSs I use, including Windows, BeOS, and Linux. The blame lies squarly with nVidia.
Ranessin
I've tried 92, 93, and 94. I've read and reread the faq. I've e-mailed their support a couple times (and never got a response). I've gone to that irc channel, and never got any solution for the problem.
Frankly, 3dfx may not make the best cards. And they may have questionable business practices at times, but at least they've demonstrated the desire to keep me as a customer.
Ranessin
That's funny... My TNT2 doesn't work under Linux. At all.
Ranessin
Oh, I like getting the ultimate in performance, too. And I don't mind rebooting to do it. However, I do mind being forced to reboot into one specific OS, the only OS that this card will perform in 3D under
Ranessin
Actually, I've been on the IRC channel numerous times, and talked with various people. *None* have been able to help me. Numerous e-mails to their address have gone unanswered. Frankly, I'd rather support a company that wants me as a customer and is willing to demonstrate that fact.
Ranessin
The TNT2 is PCI to begin with
Their driver can keep improving. I'm not likely to ever use them again. I already get accelerated 3D under Linux with a video card from a manufacturer that knows what they're doing
Ranessin
"I don't think you can hold Nvidia responsible for the possibility that Linux support for you mother board is not quite perfect(If that happens to be the case)."
In addition, 3dfx and ATI don't seem to have that problem...
Ranessin
If they've gotten the drivers right under Windows, why not Linux?
Ranessin
Perhaps... But since nVidia was promosing high quality drivers for their cards under Linux, that's what I expected
Ranessin
No hard feelings...
And in their defense, they did respond with a problem I first had just installing the drivers (the day they were released, in fact).
This TNT2 did not come with a fan, and since I never had this problem under Windows I didn't see how the card would be overheating under Linux. However, I did open up the case, and my computer is right next to the AC vent in this room, so everything should have remained nice and cool.
Anyway, you defend them because you like them. I criticize them because I've been so disappointed with them, their products, and their idea of "support," particularly under Linux.
Ranessin
Thank you
I can get all the Mesa demos to work and have no problems with the GL modules from xscreensaver and xlock. However shortly after I start up Q3A, my entire machine locks up. UT did the same.
After some experimentation, I realized something interesting. If the PCI slot below my TNT2 was empty, it would work. This led me to believe that the TNT2 and which ever card was below it (sometimes a SoundBlaster Live, sometimes an Adaptec 2940, and sometimes an Ensoniq PCI) were having a conflict over an interrupt.
However,
Any ideas?
Ranessin
If they hadn't been relased at all I would not be infinitely more screwed since they don't work in the first place. What's the difference b/w having non-functioning driver and not having non-functioning drivers?
Ranessin
Funny, but I had no problems installing the Voodoo3/5 DRI drivers from source. Hate to break it to you that the problem is *not* me.
Ranessin
Well, if those 100 developers could actually put out drivers that work, then I'd take them as well... However, the handful of developers working on the driver for the Voodoo cards have done an *incredible* job that actually works on my hardware.
Ranessin
"NVidia's Linux drivers are equivalent in speed and exatly equal in features to their Windows drivers. Sometimes, their Linux drivers are even faster."
Only if you can get them to work on your system. If not, you're screwed.
Ranessin
"Look, I care more for quality than a peculiar attachment to a particular OS. Right now, OpenGL on all the other consumer cards sucks compared to NVIDIA's. They're the only ones I can use for 3D Studio. They also have the most stable drivers, and I'm benifeting from all their driver work even though I've got an older card. That's real quality"
I care for both quality and my OSes of choice (linux and BeOS). 3Dfx has come out on top in that regard (although Matrox is probably right up there, too). They are the only ones I can use for Q3A. They have the most stable drivers under Linux, and their driver developers are responsive when there's a problem. *That* is real quality.
Ranessin
Which did me absolutely no good. I still get a lock up within thirty seconds of starting Q3A and UT. I asked a question, one responded (very nice and politely) and asked me to e-mail the question to their e-mail address since he hadn't heard of the problem. I e-mailed them the problem. Less than a week later I popped back onto IRC and asked the same developer. He was still no help. Another two e-mails to their e-mail address went unanswered. They lost a customer.
Ranessin
Funny... The other 3D drivers don't seem to have thoes problems... But then again, they're open source. I wonder if there's a connection?
Ranessin
"How did NVidia damage the open source community by releasing Linux drivers?"
It could be argued that every time a company releases a closed source product which uses GPLed code it damages the open source community.
"Furthermore, their closed source drivers for Linux are currently better than any open source driver for a 3D card on Linux."
Only if you can get them to work. If you can't, you're screwed since you have no access to the code and little, if any, access to the developers.
Ranessin
"But given that the company does so much for it's users in a day where videocard companies are generally down the tube, I forgive them for it."
Down the tube? Like the various companies who are either writing their own 3D drivers for BeOS or assisting Be in writing the drivers? Frankly, I think it's nVidia that is down the tube.
Perhaps if they could put out quality, stable, Be and Linux drivers, I'd change my mind. But till then, I'm quite happy with my Voodoo5 which has 2D acceleration under Windows, Linux (and every other x86 XFree86 platform), and BeOS, and which has (or will soon have) 3D accleration under Linux, Windows, and BeOS.
Ranessin
Reasons to complain:
1) As a Be fan, certainly your aware of how much trouble nVidia has given Be? Currently, anyone with a GeForce under BeOS is limited to using the Vesa driver, which is quite slow compared to all the accelerated drivers. This is not just for 3D, either, but 2D as well... This is not due to lack of interest in GeForce driver for Be, either, but the lack of technical information that nVidia is willing to give out.
2) My TNT2 *still* won't work under XFree86 4.0 with nVidia's 3D drivers. If I'm lucky, my server will last a whole 30 seconds after starting Quake3Arena before completely locking up my machine... So, I e-mailed their support. No response. E-mailed again. No response. Visited their IRC channel and received no help. I've tried every version of their driver and have never gotten it to work. However, every problem I've had with my Voodoo3 or Voodoo5 has been cleared up by the DRI folks within weeks, if not days.
3) How long was it before they released their drivers for 4.0? I remember the waiting, and it certainly couldn't be considered "shortly after the release of 4.0" as they claimed.
4) With all the time they had those drivers before releasing them, you mean to tell me that they never noticed the GPLed code?
Anyone care to add to the list?
Ranessin
"1) There are no HOWTO's or webpages dedicated to your card. When you ask a simple question, you will immediately be bombarded by three morons who say "why didn't you read through the last 712 messages! everything you need is there!""
Actually, everything you should need is really on these two pages:
http://dri.sourceforge.net/DRIcompile.html
and
http://dri.sourceforge.net/DRIuserguide.html
Ranessin
Since when is Netscape 4.x *not* a standard environment?
Ranessin
The problem isn't how Netscape handles the website. If it doesn't render it well, I'll either not visit that site, or visit it with another browser. However, if a site keeps having an annoying window pop up on every page, I won't visit it again, with *any* browser.
Ranessin
Happy? No. Would I dispute your right to do so? Not if you made some sort of attempt to mark those links as your own and not mine (as Deja is doing).
Ranessin