Somebody made the same point above, and this was my response there as well:
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Einstein is another classic example (By many accounts I'm sure as a violinist I've got him bested, but even attempting to logically wrap my head around concepts of advanced physics, gravity, and electro-magnetism could send me into convulsions of idiocy).
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts, sub-atomic physics, patience with religious idiocy), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time. Potential for genius, potential for idiocy, often in one tidy package!
*But you cannot make a point without calling people stupid, okay, I got it. So how old are you?
29. Not that age is generally relevant in any debate on any topic. I can make a point without calling people stupid. However, in this instance, when we are discussing people believing in invisible men in the sky who are omnipotent, and yet are never heard, seen, smelled, touched, or otherwise witnessed by humanity (at least not demonstrably in a way that I find satisfactory), the term idiot is certainly relevant. In the rare cases when it is not (I can envision situations where ignorant might be a better term), it is still completely valid to call somebody an idiot WITH REGARDS TO THIS TOPIC.
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts, sub-atomic physics, patience with religious idiocy), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time.
*I personally don't believe in God; the lack of positive evidence in favor of God's existence is my reason. But I cannot, and will not try to, prove a negative.
Ok. I don't believe anything about the topic, because I think we lack the fundamental knowledge about all of reality that would allow us a clear vision on the issue. I definitely see plenty of evidence however to disprove most of the "god" theory set forth by most of organized religion.
*Then prove that God does not exist. As I just said--a negative cannot be proven. And if we are assuming the omnipotent, omniscient Christian God is the one up for discussion, you lose by default. Said omnipotent god could choose not to be visible to his creations, and we'd never know the wiser.
I'm not attempting to prove or disprove the unknown, with no evidence. That is idiotic. I simply do not know, and further, lack the scientific mind to attempt to discover in this area. I can however state, with certainty, that as professed by judeo-christianity, the classical definition of god as explained to me by the various western churches and church goers that I have discussed it with, THAT god most certainly does not exist. It is a logical impossibility. Furthermore, I would also state based on archaeological evidence most of the Jesus story is either highly inaccurate, fabricated, or simply an enormous series of "typos" off some random papyrus scrolls. The only redeeming thing about the whole book or concept is that at one point, he suggested people be nice to each other, and limit what they would pay in taxes. I agree with both of those ethical concepts, but it does not change the rest of the fallacies in "The Good Book". Much less the earlier chapters condoning genocide and all manner of ass-holishness and, I'll say it again: Idiocy.
*You would not be arguing so angrily if you were not insecure about your beliefs.
Actually, I'm not that angry right now. As to the concept of religion in general, it would be inhuman not to become visibly upset and angry at the atrocities and ignorance that religion has wrought upon humanity. If my earlier rant was vehement, it was because of pictures I've seen of children and other innocents in every part of the world suffering, dying, starving, being tortured, being brainwashed, and basically having all purpose (in MY view) to life removed, and often life itself. I would very much like to beat the teeth right out of nearly every religious leader alive today, because I have litt
A very valid point. We do not know either way, and I'm willing to say for the moment that it IS a possibility, however I'm willing to wager with you that it will never be proven in our lifetimes that they do in fact exist. In fact, given the overwhelming lack of evidence supporting THAT idea, I'm going to assume that they don't.
Still though, I'm not going to rule it out completely until I see conclusive evidence one way or the other.
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Einstein is another classic example (By many accounts I'm sure as a violinist I've got him bested, but even attempting to logically wrap my head around concepts of advanced physics, gravity, and electro-magnetism could send me into convulsions of idiocy).
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts, sub-atomic physics, patience with religious idiocy), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time.
I'm not insecure about anything relating to philosophy or religion. There is the known and the unknown. God is a comforting idea, to some (though the various visages that organized religion seems to create for him/she/them/it are truly horrific more often than not), however he/she/they/it have absolutely no evidence to having ever existed. Therefore I don't believe that he/she/they/it exists OR doesn't exist.
I'm completely comfortable being honest about it and saying, "I have no idea."
However the evidence at hand clearly disproves most of organized religion.
If god showed up, and had a press conference or something, well then, I might be his biggest fan. Until he does, I refuse to acknowledge the idea as anything more than a remote possibility.
You can believe in him if you want, but unless you have actually seen or heard him (in which case I would still argue hallucination, or wishful thinking), I will call you an idiot for believing in that which has no substantive evidence.
Now, I'm an idiot in lots of other ways, so you shouldn't take it too hard. Hell, most of my friends and family are idiots too, on some level, and that doesn't mean I don't love them and am completely capable of having them over for dinner, or sharing a few beers and laughs.
But I'll be the first to tell them that believing in ANY fairy tale, be it ancient and Jewish or otherwise, is infinitely foolish, and demonstrably at least one aspect of what does in fact make the vast populace on this planet: A bunch of idiots.
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Einstein is another classic example.
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time.
No. The only logical choice given the evidence is to be agnostic. With neither proof or lack of proof to prove or disprove the concept of a supreme being that somehow dictates reality, I have to choose simply to not know.
Now some atheists and science types might claim Occam's razor (as you mentioned), but I'm never quick to rush to judgment like that. I'm not sure Occam's razor PROVES anything. It is sometimes helpful in a situation where there is more than one possibility, and the simple explanation is immediately implicated by "Occam's Razor", but even in those instances, further testing and evidence is generally necessary.
I mean, Two Hundred years ago, "Occam's Razor" would easily have disproved all of quantum mechanics, but that doesn't mean that are current understanding is vastly superior.
Simply stated: We do not know enough about our Universe and it's structure to assume anything about it's meaning and origins.
Anybody who tells you otherwise is fooling themselves with wishful thinking.
If "God" or some other prehistoric human invention showed up in the flesh tomorrow and held a press conference, well then, I would have no problem acknowledging his/her/their/it's existence(s).
Until that happens, or further scientific inquiry somehow fully disproves the notion, pretending to know either way is the grossest form of irrationality, and purely the domain of the idiot, which, funnily enough, our species seems to have no small genius in propagating.
I'm no arrogant ass, either. I'm one of the idiots like most of us. I just happen not to be an idiot with regards to THIS topic. Any of my ex-girlfriends would surely have no problems pointing out a myriad of various other idiocies that I am quite guilty of, however.
Part of the genius of The Simpsons, and Homer's character in particular, are the subtle truths that sometimes get uttered out of context, seemingly disproving them, and yet subtly underlining them in another way that is, for some (myself included), quite humorous.
No. The only logical choice given the evidence is to be agnostic. With neither proof or lack of proof to prove or disprove the concept of a supreme being that somehow dictates reality, I have to choose simply to not know.
Now some atheists and science types will claim Occam's razor, but I'm never quick to rush to judgment like that.
Simply stated: We do not know enough about our Universe and it's structure to assume anything about it's meaning and origins.
Anybody who tells you otherwise is fooling themselves with wishful thinking.
If "God" or some other prehistoric human invention showed up in the flesh tomorrow and held a press conference, well then, I would have no problem acknowledging his/her/their/it's existence(s).
Until that happens, or further scientific inquiry somehow fully disproves the notion, pretending to know either way is the grossest form of irrationality, and purely the domain of the idiot, which, funnily enough, our species seems to have no small genius in propagating.
I'm no arrogant ass, either. I'm one of the idiots like most of us. I just happen not to be an idiot with regards to THIS topic. Any of my ex-girlfriends would surely have no problems pointing out a myriad of various other idiocies that I am quite guilty of, however.
Ok, so maybe my post was a bit of a rant, but at least I'm not throwing curse words around, in the voice of God, guessing at people's sexual preference (wrongly), while posing as omnipotent, and also, posting as an Anonymous Coward.
God:
If you are so bad ass, use a real/. ID so we can see all of your profound earthly achievements that are somehow vastly superior to the violin career I've sweated over for more than a decade. And it's LeperKhanz all one word. If you're going to give me press (shitty is still good, according to some), at least do it in a way that is valuable and allows people to google it. Actually, here, god, check out my violin:
Proceed with the gay bashing comments and such. I'm here with my name and FACE online, completely unafraid of you, or any other deity impostor. And I'm proud of my achievements and can take a healthy dose of criticism on my way to hell, where I'll laugh at you for pretending to be superior, when it's obviously me who has a better sense of humor.
Nice troll, though. I mean, minus the unnecessary and clearly uneducated over use of cussing and vehement stupidity.
I appreciate it, but I had to laugh out loud for real since it was an Anonymous Coward. Something about a standing ovation from an Anonymous Coward is funny.
How exactly am I making atheists bad, since I don't profess to be one?
Here's a more detailed analysis (from my blog):
More on Atheism, Religion, and the infinity of human stupidity. Current mood: Introspective Category: Introspective Parties and Nightlife
Well, I have a tendency towards the vitriolic online, which is natural I suppose, given the vast body of online experience I've achieved over the last decade (I was on BBS systems even before the Internet EXISTED), but I'm going to try to tone it down and be completely reasonable for a minute.
Of course there is no way to disprove the idea of a god or gods. Neither is there a way to prove their existence, either. Hence, believing either that none exist or that there is definitively one or more is demonstrably stupid.
Believing in things without evidence of any kind is always stupid.
Is the world flat? Is there an Easter Bunny? Is the earth a giant egg hatched from a Condor?
Does believing one or all of those make you stupid?
I have no insecurities in MY beliefs, because I only believe that which is proven. And I'm proud to say, that if something I believe is unproven, I'm quick to change what I believe. I can make educated guesses about the rest, and debate them for fun, but BELIEVING them would be stupid, and trying to convert other people to made-up or unproven beliefs would be doubly so.
As to bitching and whining, I would say that is a waste of time. Arguing however may be essential, especially in public places like/. where an undecided person may be swayed into considering a more rational perspective.
Religion (in particular the belief without evidence kind) is for idiots, and it's time for the bulk of humanity (especially in a democracy, where the bulk's intelligence can make important decisions effecting everyone) to see it as such. Too long have all of us suffered under crusades, against moral judgments, ancient superstitions, ethics given by rote that are in themselves unethical. It is time, nay, it is WAY PAST TIME, to start living our lives, leading our plans and families, based on a scientifically proven linear of what is best for the greatest amount of people at any given time. And yes, I would argue that future generations are potentially THE GREATEST amount of people, and that should be weighed accordingly.
I'm not alone in some of these ideas, and I'm sorry that I do not express them eloquently enough. Perhaps I should spend more time linking to wikipedia articles by Bertrand Russell, or books like "Fifty Degrees Below Zero", which though fictional, express very intelligent suggestions relating to scientific knowledge, public awareness, and governmental policy. Perhaps I should take the hours and years that it would to debunk the ludicrous claims made by nearly every religion on the planet. Maybe I should just throw my hands in the air and claim that we can't even prove OUR OWN existence.
But I see our existence. I see the lives and deaths of people all over the planet. I see the petty religious squabbles. I see the petty race squabbles. I see the petty ageism squabbles. Frankly, I'm over it.
If something is right for a great many people, and even if it may inconvenience a few, or even disrupt them in the most ultimate way (death, prison, genetic eradication), by god (or more importantly, by the good of all living things), let's do it.
Our economy runs on the basis that "optimally" 5% of the population be unemployed in order to lower wages. WTF?!? That means that roughly 20 million people in this country are EXPECTED to be unemployed. That's not a system. That's human misery. That's straight up BULLSHIT. The average American worker makes less than 40% of the profit that he or she delivers to her company. That is highway robbery.
You, my friends, family, fuck it, even my enemies and people I hate, are getting screwed.
You're getting screwed by corrupt idiots that would step on their own mothers
I'm not just throwing around random insults. If you believe in unproven and especially disproved things, you are in fact an idiot. So by simple definition, MOST religious people (all billions of them) are in fact idiots.
I mean, if you truly believe that some guy died for your sins 2,000 years ago and that your belief in him somehow will be your salvation "in the next life", or in some made up location like "heaven" or "hell", which clearly we have absolutely no evidence for, then you ARE in very simple terms, a moron.
Lots of people believe the earth is flat. What do you call them?
Now, there is a possibility in some backwards cultures and societies that these believers are in fact ignorant and not morons, but with the advent of the internet, at least in most countries where you have access to so much knowledge for free (wikipedia, etc.), ignorance is no excuse, and in fact if you REMAIN ignorant, that is in itself a form of idiocy.
Stop defending ignorant people who willfully refuse to accept the reality they live in. They are idiots, and they're hurting themselves, their families, the planet, and most of the good things that humanity and individuals IN humanity have achieved over the last few millennia. It's inexcusable. Stop defending them. They are idiots, by the very definition of the word.
First off, I'm not an atheist, so your insecurities about how you may look given my anti-religion tirade are completely unfounded. Secondly, you can make a point without being demeaning and assuming anything about my age.
Of course there is no way to disprove the idea of a god or gods. Neither is there a way to prove their existence, either. Hence, believing either that none exist or that there is definitively one or more is demonstrably stupid.
Believing in things without evidence of any kind is always stupid.
I have no insecurities in MY beliefs, because I only believe that which is proven. I can make educated guesses about the rest, and debate them for fun, but BELIEVING them would be stupid, and trying to convert other people to made-up or unproven beliefs would be doubly so.
As to bitching and whining, I would say that is a waste of time. Arguing however may be essential, especially in public places like/. where an undecided person may be swayed into considering a more rational perspective.
Religion is for idiots, and it's time for the bulk of humanity (especially in a democracy, where the bulk's intelligence can make important decisions effecting everyone) to see it as such.
I'm not alone in some of these ideas, and I'm sorry that I do not express them eloquently enough for you. Perhaps I should spend more time linking to wikipedia articles by Bertrand Russell, or books like "Fifty Degrees Below Zero", which though fictional, express very intelligent suggestions relating to scientific knowledge, public awareness, and governmental policy.
Now, if you'd like to go ahead and reword and improve upon my over all message, which is very sound and reasonable, however poorly expressed/worded, please feel free to do so, and make all of you "atheists and unbelievers" look better. Not that I'm sure unbeliever is the proper term for what you were trying to express.
Ok, I'll give you that JWs are not as bad as Mormons, or some others that play the stock market with little or no ethical considerations, however, their fundamental views on reality are still as inherently flawed. And as for G: That's nice/. boasting by a JW, but there is no doubt that you do NOT in fact no that to be true (though *I'm* quite sure it is), and furthermore it is completely unrelated to the topic at hand a rather weak straw man at that.
If you want a more specific critique of JW philosophy then I would simply mention that in this life, I've probably MET 144,000 that were deserving of a heaven if there was such a place, and that putting any kind of exact number on it like that is stupid and petty, anyway.
Consequently, I have some JW friends, and have no qualms attacking them philosophically at any given moment, which I relish. It's just too easy when you look at those stupid Awake! magazines and their mind-numbingly imbecilic illustrations, that even from an arts point of view are more corporately disgusting than a Kinkade.
I don't see how you found me annoying due to self righteousness or egotism. I didn't claim to have any philosophical answers or truths.
I am merely pointing out that religion IS ignorance, to a large extent.
I wasn't trying to brag about a sexual exploit, but it did in fact occur. Not everyone on/. is a virgin. Though, at this point, given the experiences I HAVE accrued, I'm not going to belittle that lifestyle as I can see it having obvious advantages to the one I have chosen up to today.
You should also be less annoyed by "people like me" due to the fact that besides not going door to door with stupid magazines, "we" have faith not in unprovable (and often disproved) ideas and realities, but in observable and repeatable observations that have benefited all of mankind many times over.
I'm not being self righteous. I'm just pointing at the evidence and deducing a wiser path, then recommending it for anyone else. I cower in the presence of larger intellectuals, like Bertrand Russell or Stephen Hawking.
But I don't worship them, or anybody else, real or imaginary. That's just stupid.
You have never been mid-thrust in an awesome sexual encounter when the doorbell rings, and some smarmy ass-hole in Sunday best is at the door telling you about their imaginary man in the sky, and how he can save your soul.
The image of one of these self-righteous idiots being spattered to pieces by a mechanical machine gun operator IS kind of funny.
I'm all for people having their own religious beliefs (no matter how stupid or unfounded, as most of Judeo-Christianity obviously is), right up to the point where they are knocking on my door, my email box, my phone or any other area where I don't want to be bothered. At that point, I'm more excited about a violent robot then I am about their well-being. Now, personally, I think death might be a little much, but I'd LOVE to have a robotic Sumo wrestler seriously knock them around for disturbing me. Maybe cost 'em a couple of teeth and a good solid nose bleed.
I'm so completely disgusted by the "tolerance" that our society is attempting to hold so dear regarding these self-righteous idiots that are:
A. Destroying the planet in giant SUVs with a fish sticker on the back. B. Voting for maniacal ego-maniacs that want to "Shock and Awe" citizens of other countries into the stone age for personal financial gain. C. Having their ethics and morality spoon fed to them by D. Financial interests that invest in all kinds of human misery and environmental destruction (read: more eventual human misery) largely E. At the cost of the Constitution, Freedom, Liberty, Families, Lives, Education, and Reason.
I'll have tolerance for these ignorant idiots right after I find tolerance for the KKK or any other group of self-proclaimed "chosen people" who are somehow smarter and happier than you and I for having "faith" in made up characters out of stone age cults that suggest postmortem salvation from some imaginary man in the sky that is such a sycophant that you must WORSHIP his immature ass on your knees all day.
If you are religious, you are stupid. STFU, and don't expect me, or anyone else with half a brain to give you any respect WHATSOEVER.
If I went around proclaiming that you have to have FAITH in some invisible man in the sky to live eternally in bliss AFTER YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD, and that I am a CHOSEN person, somehow above the rest of humanity by the divine rights given to me by some ancient made up cult that is guilty of genocide, and didn't call it Jesus or Christianity, then people would think I was insane.
I say they are all insane anyway, an embarrassment to the rest of humanity with the power for simple deduction and reason, and not worthy of any public or private office where their actions could effect ANYBODY else's well-being. That includes parenting, education, politics, military, and even retail.
Boycott them all, or better yet let's round 'em all up: Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Pagans, Shamans, and Mormons. Let's round 'em ALL up and put 'em in a sandbox unarmed and see who survives. Hell let's go ahead and arm them. The rest of us with capacity for reason and true human compassion without being spoon fed by religious corporations will be infinitely better off.
Religion IS the problem. If you are religious, you are STUPID.
Stop coming by my house, singing stupid songs, and trying to discover a connection with invisible men in the sky who MOST LIKELY NEVER EXISTED, certainly not in the way your institutions are attempting to teach you.
Go ahead, mod me down. I'm fucking sick of these ignorant ass-holes being in the majority and costing human lives and a standard of living lower than it should be, all in the name of a god that most certainly doesn't exist, definitely not in the way they envision, in which case if he DID exist, he would obviously be an unconscionable dick-head, so FUCK HIM ANYWAY.
rhY
PS. I don't want to come off as Satanic or something equally lame to Christian. I think the golden rule is a good one, and as such not all of Christianity is necessarily a bad thing. Loving your neighbor as yourself is obviously a cool thing. Now as for the rest of that lurid epic of genocide.......
Yes, that is true. However, there is always sunlight SOMEWHERE on the planet, and with a highly efficient power grid we could go solar without storage. The efficiencies of today's power grid though are of course ludicrously inadequate. Maybe if we discover some kind of room temperature super conductor that is cheap and abundant...:D
When you have a monopoly (many areas in the US have broadband monopolies), and in particular a shitty one (Cox in this case) that will turn off your internet connection for downloading a NOCD crack for a game that was LEGALLY PURCHASED (Lego Star Wars II), It makes the whole point of broadband almost moot.
I mean, even 50x more bandwidth than the pathetic 200 kb/sec I'm liable to get on a good torrent is not a lot when they are doing traffic shaping.
Now if there was a broadband offering here in San Diego County that gave true 1mb/sec downloads without traffic shaping, monitoring, shutting off the connection YOU ARE PAYING FOR, or other such shenanigans then I could reasonably recommend them to family and friends. As it stands, You might as well just use dial up, since email, google, and MySpace is all the internet is good for anyway. What good is broadband without bit torrent? Are there hundreds of uses that I'm somehow missing? Does the average person really give two shits about streaming random teenagers singing into a webcam on youtube?
The corporate stranglehold on this country is the problem. It is the terminal malignancy that we are under not just in the technology sector, but in every way that should matter to the US citizen.
Yay, we voted out the corrupt and dirty Republicans! What's that you say, the Democrats are just as sold out to corporate interests and also don't give a shit about the American populace or the concepts of civil liberty as envisioned by our forefathers? Oh, shit....
It is my opinion that the open source nature of true open source is going to attract the majority of best coders. It seems an inevitable path, and furthermore information does not seem like something that is going to be exactly "secure" at least for the time being. However that could change with quantum computers, different fiber optics, who knows? I don't. But I do think that Real Open Source is what people are most interested, no matter the innovation/ renovation of windows and suse. Maybe Debian will continue to be the solid branch that all real Linux is built on, and maybe ReactOS or something takes over. You don't know. Firefox already has, so don't think a quick Novell buyout is going to grease your skids for much more than half a decade or so.
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Somebody made the same point above, and this was my response there as well:
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Einstein is another classic example (By many accounts I'm sure as a violinist I've got him bested, but even attempting to logically wrap my head around concepts of advanced physics, gravity, and electro-magnetism could send me into convulsions of idiocy).
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts, sub-atomic physics, patience with religious idiocy), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time. Potential for genius, potential for idiocy, often in one tidy package!
rhY
It was green tea and honey. You've discovered me! :P
*Don't put words in my mouth.
Didn't mean to, sorry!
*But you cannot make a point without calling people stupid, okay, I got it. So how old are you?
29. Not that age is generally relevant in any debate on any topic. I can make a point without calling people stupid. However, in this instance, when we are discussing people believing in invisible men in the sky who are omnipotent, and yet are never heard, seen, smelled, touched, or otherwise witnessed by humanity (at least not demonstrably in a way that I find satisfactory), the term idiot is certainly relevant. In the rare cases when it is not (I can envision situations where ignorant might be a better term), it is still completely valid to call somebody an idiot WITH REGARDS TO THIS TOPIC.
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts, sub-atomic physics, patience with religious idiocy), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time.
*I personally don't believe in God; the lack of positive evidence in favor of God's existence is my reason. But I cannot, and will not try to, prove a negative.
Ok. I don't believe anything about the topic, because I think we lack the fundamental knowledge about all of reality that would allow us a clear vision on the issue. I definitely see plenty of evidence however to disprove most of the "god" theory set forth by most of organized religion.
*Then prove that God does not exist. As I just said--a negative cannot be proven. And if we are assuming the omnipotent, omniscient Christian God is the one up for discussion, you lose by default. Said omnipotent god could choose not to be visible to his creations, and we'd never know the wiser.
I'm not attempting to prove or disprove the unknown, with no evidence. That is idiotic. I simply do not know, and further, lack the scientific mind to attempt to discover in this area. I can however state, with certainty, that as professed by judeo-christianity, the classical definition of god as explained to me by the various western churches and church goers that I have discussed it with, THAT god most certainly does not exist. It is a logical impossibility. Furthermore, I would also state based on archaeological evidence most of the Jesus story is either highly inaccurate, fabricated, or simply an enormous series of "typos" off some random papyrus scrolls. The only redeeming thing about the whole book or concept is that at one point, he suggested people be nice to each other, and limit what they would pay in taxes. I agree with both of those ethical concepts, but it does not change the rest of the fallacies in "The Good Book". Much less the earlier chapters condoning genocide and all manner of ass-holishness and, I'll say it again: Idiocy.
*You would not be arguing so angrily if you were not insecure about your beliefs.
Actually, I'm not that angry right now. As to the concept of religion in general, it would be inhuman not to become visibly upset and angry at the atrocities and ignorance that religion has wrought upon humanity. If my earlier rant was vehement, it was because of pictures I've seen of children and other innocents in every part of the world suffering, dying, starving, being tortured, being brainwashed, and basically having all purpose (in MY view) to life removed, and often life itself. I would very much like to beat the teeth right out of nearly every religious leader alive today, because I have litt
A very valid point. We do not know either way, and I'm willing to say for the moment that it IS a possibility, however I'm willing to wager with you that it will never be proven in our lifetimes that they do in fact exist. In fact, given the overwhelming lack of evidence supporting THAT idea, I'm going to assume that they don't.
Still though, I'm not going to rule it out completely until I see conclusive evidence one way or the other.
rhY
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Einstein is another classic example (By many accounts I'm sure as a violinist I've got him bested, but even attempting to logically wrap my head around concepts of advanced physics, gravity, and electro-magnetism could send me into convulsions of idiocy).
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts, sub-atomic physics, patience with religious idiocy), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time.
rhY
I'm not insecure about anything relating to philosophy or religion. There is the known and the unknown. God is a comforting idea, to some (though the various visages that organized religion seems to create for him/she/them/it are truly horrific more often than not), however he/she/they/it have absolutely no evidence to having ever existed. Therefore I don't believe that he/she/they/it exists OR doesn't exist.
I'm completely comfortable being honest about it and saying, "I have no idea."
However the evidence at hand clearly disproves most of organized religion.
If god showed up, and had a press conference or something, well then, I might be his biggest fan. Until he does, I refuse to acknowledge the idea as anything more than a remote possibility.
You can believe in him if you want, but unless you have actually seen or heard him (in which case I would still argue hallucination, or wishful thinking), I will call you an idiot for believing in that which has no substantive evidence.
Now, I'm an idiot in lots of other ways, so you shouldn't take it too hard. Hell, most of my friends and family are idiots too, on some level, and that doesn't mean I don't love them and am completely capable of having them over for dinner, or sharing a few beers and laughs.
But I'll be the first to tell them that believing in ANY fairy tale, be it ancient and Jewish or otherwise, is infinitely foolish, and demonstrably at least one aspect of what does in fact make the vast populace on this planet: A bunch of idiots.
rhY
It is my humble opinion that many idiots can be geniuses at the same time, in varying fields and to varying degrees.
Einstein is another classic example.
Some days I like to think we all are. I for one completely rule at Mario Kart, and yet can have a difficult time preparing a meal that tastes in any way different than a pile of fetid oozing horse shit.
I'm sure you can find various examples of this dichotomy in all people's lives. I just don't feel that on the topic of religion, I'm quite as idiotic as the vast majority. Now on other topics (economics, the previously mentioned culinary arts), I'm quite sure that I'm sub-par at best. That's part of what makes our huge human variety so awesome, and yet tragic at the same time.
rhY
No. The only logical choice given the evidence is to be agnostic. With neither proof or lack of proof to prove or disprove the concept of a supreme being that somehow dictates reality, I have to choose simply to not know.
Now some atheists and science types might claim Occam's razor (as you mentioned), but I'm never quick to rush to judgment like that. I'm not sure Occam's razor PROVES anything. It is sometimes helpful in a situation where there is more than one possibility, and the simple explanation is immediately implicated by "Occam's Razor", but even in those instances, further testing and evidence is generally necessary.
I mean, Two Hundred years ago, "Occam's Razor" would easily have disproved all of quantum mechanics, but that doesn't mean that are current understanding is vastly superior.
Simply stated: We do not know enough about our Universe and it's structure to assume anything about it's meaning and origins.
Anybody who tells you otherwise is fooling themselves with wishful thinking.
If "God" or some other prehistoric human invention showed up in the flesh tomorrow and held a press conference, well then, I would have no problem acknowledging his/her/their/it's existence(s).
Until that happens, or further scientific inquiry somehow fully disproves the notion, pretending to know either way is the grossest form of irrationality, and purely the domain of the idiot, which, funnily enough, our species seems to have no small genius in propagating.
I'm no arrogant ass, either. I'm one of the idiots like most of us. I just happen not to be an idiot with regards to THIS topic. Any of my ex-girlfriends would surely have no problems pointing out a myriad of various other idiocies that I am quite guilty of, however.
Part of the genius of The Simpsons, and Homer's character in particular, are the subtle truths that sometimes get uttered out of context, seemingly disproving them, and yet subtly underlining them in another way that is, for some (myself included), quite humorous.
rhY
No. The only logical choice given the evidence is to be agnostic. With neither proof or lack of proof to prove or disprove the concept of a supreme being that somehow dictates reality, I have to choose simply to not know.
Now some atheists and science types will claim Occam's razor, but I'm never quick to rush to judgment like that.
Simply stated: We do not know enough about our Universe and it's structure to assume anything about it's meaning and origins.
Anybody who tells you otherwise is fooling themselves with wishful thinking.
If "God" or some other prehistoric human invention showed up in the flesh tomorrow and held a press conference, well then, I would have no problem acknowledging his/her/their/it's existence(s).
Until that happens, or further scientific inquiry somehow fully disproves the notion, pretending to know either way is the grossest form of irrationality, and purely the domain of the idiot, which, funnily enough, our species seems to have no small genius in propagating.
I'm no arrogant ass, either. I'm one of the idiots like most of us. I just happen not to be an idiot with regards to THIS topic. Any of my ex-girlfriends would surely have no problems pointing out a myriad of various other idiocies that I am quite guilty of, however.
rhY
Ok, so maybe my post was a bit of a rant, but at least I'm not throwing curse words around, in the voice of God, guessing at people's sexual preference (wrongly), while posing as omnipotent, and also, posting as an Anonymous Coward.
/. ID so we can see all of your profound earthly achievements that are somehow vastly superior to the violin career I've sweated over for more than a decade. And it's LeperKhanz all one word. If you're going to give me press (shitty is still good, according to some), at least do it in a way that is valuable and allows people to google it. Actually, here, god, check out my violin:
God:
If you are so bad ass, use a real
http://cdbaby.com/cd/leperkhanz
Proceed with the gay bashing comments and such. I'm here with my name and FACE online, completely unafraid of you, or any other deity impostor. And I'm proud of my achievements and can take a healthy dose of criticism on my way to hell, where I'll laugh at you for pretending to be superior, when it's obviously me who has a better sense of humor.
Nice troll, though. I mean, minus the unnecessary and clearly uneducated over use of cussing and vehement stupidity.
rhY
I appreciate it, but I had to laugh out loud for real since it was an Anonymous Coward. Something about a standing ovation from an Anonymous Coward is funny.
How exactly am I making atheists bad, since I don't profess to be one?
/. where an undecided person may be swayed into considering a more rational perspective.
Here's a more detailed analysis (from my blog):
More on Atheism, Religion, and the infinity of human stupidity.
Current mood: Introspective
Category: Introspective Parties and Nightlife
Well, I have a tendency towards the vitriolic online, which is natural I suppose, given the vast body of online experience I've achieved over the last decade (I was on BBS systems even before the Internet EXISTED), but I'm going to try to tone it down and be completely reasonable for a minute.
Of course there is no way to disprove the idea of a god or gods. Neither is there a way to prove their existence, either. Hence, believing either that none exist or that there is definitively one or more is demonstrably stupid.
Believing in things without evidence of any kind is always stupid.
Is the world flat?
Is there an Easter Bunny?
Is the earth a giant egg hatched from a Condor?
Does believing one or all of those make you stupid?
I have no insecurities in MY beliefs, because I only believe that which is proven. And I'm proud to say, that if something I believe is unproven, I'm quick to change what I believe. I can make educated guesses about the rest, and debate them for fun, but BELIEVING them would be stupid, and trying to convert other people to made-up or unproven beliefs would be doubly so.
As to bitching and whining, I would say that is a waste of time. Arguing however may be essential, especially in public places like
Religion (in particular the belief without evidence kind) is for idiots, and it's time for the bulk of humanity (especially in a democracy, where the bulk's intelligence can make important decisions effecting everyone) to see it as such. Too long have all of us suffered under crusades, against moral judgments, ancient superstitions, ethics given by rote that are in themselves unethical. It is time, nay, it is WAY PAST TIME, to start living our lives, leading our plans and families, based on a scientifically proven linear of what is best for the greatest amount of people at any given time. And yes, I would argue that future generations are potentially THE GREATEST amount of people, and that should be weighed accordingly.
I'm not alone in some of these ideas, and I'm sorry that I do not express them eloquently enough. Perhaps I should spend more time linking to wikipedia articles by Bertrand Russell, or books like "Fifty Degrees Below Zero", which though fictional, express very intelligent suggestions relating to scientific knowledge, public awareness, and governmental policy. Perhaps I should take the hours and years that it would to debunk the ludicrous claims made by nearly every religion on the planet. Maybe I should just throw my hands in the air and claim that we can't even prove OUR OWN existence.
But I see our existence. I see the lives and deaths of people all over the planet. I see the petty religious squabbles. I see the petty race squabbles. I see the petty ageism squabbles. Frankly, I'm over it.
If something is right for a great many people, and even if it may inconvenience a few, or even disrupt them in the most ultimate way (death, prison, genetic eradication), by god (or more importantly, by the good of all living things), let's do it.
Our economy runs on the basis that "optimally" 5% of the population be unemployed in order to lower wages. WTF?!? That means that roughly 20 million people in this country are EXPECTED to be unemployed. That's not a system. That's human misery. That's straight up BULLSHIT. The average American worker makes less than 40% of the profit that he or she delivers to her company. That is highway robbery.
You, my friends, family, fuck it, even my enemies and people I hate, are getting screwed.
You're getting screwed by corrupt idiots that would step on their own mothers
No, you would be getting free candy from your parents, which is maybe not ethical due to the deception, but I wouldn't call it "stupid" per se.
Now believing in god with no benefit whatsoever to yourself or anyone else? Now THAT is just plain stupid.
I'm not just throwing around random insults. If you believe in unproven and especially disproved things, you are in fact an idiot. So by simple definition, MOST religious people (all billions of them) are in fact idiots.
I mean, if you truly believe that some guy died for your sins 2,000 years ago and that your belief in him somehow will be your salvation "in the next life", or in some made up location like "heaven" or "hell", which clearly we have absolutely no evidence for, then you ARE in very simple terms, a moron.
Lots of people believe the earth is flat. What do you call them?
Now, there is a possibility in some backwards cultures and societies that these believers are in fact ignorant and not morons, but with the advent of the internet, at least in most countries where you have access to so much knowledge for free (wikipedia, etc.), ignorance is no excuse, and in fact if you REMAIN ignorant, that is in itself a form of idiocy.
Stop defending ignorant people who willfully refuse to accept the reality they live in. They are idiots, and they're hurting themselves, their families, the planet, and most of the good things that humanity and individuals IN humanity have achieved over the last few millennia. It's inexcusable. Stop defending them. They are idiots, by the very definition of the word.
rhY
First off, I'm not an atheist, so your insecurities about how you may look given my anti-religion tirade are completely unfounded. Secondly, you can make a point without being demeaning and assuming anything about my age.
/. where an undecided person may be swayed into considering a more rational perspective.
Of course there is no way to disprove the idea of a god or gods. Neither is there a way to prove their existence, either. Hence, believing either that none exist or that there is definitively one or more is demonstrably stupid.
Believing in things without evidence of any kind is always stupid.
I have no insecurities in MY beliefs, because I only believe that which is proven. I can make educated guesses about the rest, and debate them for fun, but BELIEVING them would be stupid, and trying to convert other people to made-up or unproven beliefs would be doubly so.
As to bitching and whining, I would say that is a waste of time. Arguing however may be essential, especially in public places like
Religion is for idiots, and it's time for the bulk of humanity (especially in a democracy, where the bulk's intelligence can make important decisions effecting everyone) to see it as such.
I'm not alone in some of these ideas, and I'm sorry that I do not express them eloquently enough for you. Perhaps I should spend more time linking to wikipedia articles by Bertrand Russell, or books like "Fifty Degrees Below Zero", which though fictional, express very intelligent suggestions relating to scientific knowledge, public awareness, and governmental policy.
Now, if you'd like to go ahead and reword and improve upon my over all message, which is very sound and reasonable, however poorly expressed/worded, please feel free to do so, and make all of you "atheists and unbelievers" look better. Not that I'm sure unbeliever is the proper term for what you were trying to express.
rhY
Ok, I'll give you that JWs are not as bad as Mormons, or some others that play the stock market with little or no ethical considerations, however, their fundamental views on reality are still as inherently flawed. And as for G: That's nice /. boasting by a JW, but there is no doubt that you do NOT in fact no that to be true (though *I'm* quite sure it is), and furthermore it is completely unrelated to the topic at hand a rather weak straw man at that.
If you want a more specific critique of JW philosophy then I would simply mention that in this life, I've probably MET 144,000 that were deserving of a heaven if there was such a place, and that putting any kind of exact number on it like that is stupid and petty, anyway.
Consequently, I have some JW friends, and have no qualms attacking them philosophically at any given moment, which I relish. It's just too easy when you look at those stupid Awake! magazines and their mind-numbingly imbecilic illustrations, that even from an arts point of view are more corporately disgusting than a Kinkade.
rhY
I don't see how you found me annoying due to self righteousness or egotism. I didn't claim to have any philosophical answers or truths.
/. is a virgin. Though, at this point, given the experiences I HAVE accrued, I'm not going to belittle that lifestyle as I can see it having obvious advantages to the one I have chosen up to today.
I am merely pointing out that religion IS ignorance, to a large extent.
I wasn't trying to brag about a sexual exploit, but it did in fact occur. Not everyone on
You should also be less annoyed by "people like me" due to the fact that besides not going door to door with stupid magazines, "we" have faith not in unprovable (and often disproved) ideas and realities, but in observable and repeatable observations that have benefited all of mankind many times over.
I'm not being self righteous. I'm just pointing at the evidence and deducing a wiser path, then recommending it for anyone else. I cower in the presence of larger intellectuals, like Bertrand Russell or Stephen Hawking.
But I don't worship them, or anybody else, real or imaginary. That's just stupid.
rhY
You have never been mid-thrust in an awesome sexual encounter when the doorbell rings, and some smarmy ass-hole in Sunday best is at the door telling you about their imaginary man in the sky, and how he can save your soul.
The image of one of these self-righteous idiots being spattered to pieces by a mechanical machine gun operator IS kind of funny.
I'm all for people having their own religious beliefs (no matter how stupid or unfounded, as most of Judeo-Christianity obviously is), right up to the point where they are knocking on my door, my email box, my phone or any other area where I don't want to be bothered. At that point, I'm more excited about a violent robot then I am about their well-being. Now, personally, I think death might be a little much, but I'd LOVE to have a robotic Sumo wrestler seriously knock them around for disturbing me. Maybe cost 'em a couple of teeth and a good solid nose bleed.
I'm so completely disgusted by the "tolerance" that our society is attempting to hold so dear regarding these self-righteous idiots that are:
A. Destroying the planet in giant SUVs with a fish sticker on the back.
B. Voting for maniacal ego-maniacs that want to "Shock and Awe" citizens of other countries into the stone age for personal financial gain.
C. Having their ethics and morality spoon fed to them by
D. Financial interests that invest in all kinds of human misery and environmental destruction (read: more eventual human misery) largely
E. At the cost of the Constitution, Freedom, Liberty, Families, Lives, Education, and Reason.
I'll have tolerance for these ignorant idiots right after I find tolerance for the KKK or any other group of self-proclaimed "chosen people" who are somehow smarter and happier than you and I for having "faith" in made up characters out of stone age cults that suggest postmortem salvation from some imaginary man in the sky that is such a sycophant that you must WORSHIP his immature ass on your knees all day.
If you are religious, you are stupid. STFU, and don't expect me, or anyone else with half a brain to give you any respect WHATSOEVER.
If I went around proclaiming that you have to have FAITH in some invisible man in the sky to live eternally in bliss AFTER YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD, and that I am a CHOSEN person, somehow above the rest of humanity by the divine rights given to me by some ancient made up cult that is guilty of genocide, and didn't call it Jesus or Christianity, then people would think I was insane.
I say they are all insane anyway, an embarrassment to the rest of humanity with the power for simple deduction and reason, and not worthy of any public or private office where their actions could effect ANYBODY else's well-being. That includes parenting, education, politics, military, and even retail.
Boycott them all, or better yet let's round 'em all up: Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Pagans, Shamans, and Mormons. Let's round 'em ALL up and put 'em in a sandbox unarmed and see who survives. Hell let's go ahead and arm them. The rest of us with capacity for reason and true human compassion without being spoon fed by religious corporations will be infinitely better off.
Religion IS the problem. If you are religious, you are STUPID.
Stop coming by my house, singing stupid songs, and trying to discover a connection with invisible men in the sky who MOST LIKELY NEVER EXISTED, certainly not in the way your institutions are attempting to teach you.
Go ahead, mod me down. I'm fucking sick of these ignorant ass-holes being in the majority and costing human lives and a standard of living lower than it should be, all in the name of a god that most certainly doesn't exist, definitely not in the way they envision, in which case if he DID exist, he would obviously be an unconscionable dick-head, so FUCK HIM ANYWAY.
rhY
PS. I don't want to come off as Satanic or something equally lame to Christian. I think the golden rule is a good one, and as such not all of Christianity is necessarily a bad thing. Loving your neighbor as yourself is obviously a cool thing. Now as for the rest of that lurid epic of genocide.......
Yes, that is true. However, there is always sunlight SOMEWHERE on the planet, and with a highly efficient power grid we could go solar without storage. The efficiencies of today's power grid though are of course ludicrously inadequate. Maybe if we discover some kind of room temperature super conductor that is cheap and abundant... :D
rhY
When you have a monopoly (many areas in the US have broadband monopolies), and in particular a shitty one (Cox in this case) that will turn off your internet connection for downloading a NOCD crack for a game that was LEGALLY PURCHASED (Lego Star Wars II), It makes the whole point of broadband almost moot.
I mean, even 50x more bandwidth than the pathetic 200 kb/sec I'm liable to get on a good torrent is not a lot when they are doing traffic shaping.
Now if there was a broadband offering here in San Diego County that gave true 1mb/sec downloads without traffic shaping, monitoring, shutting off the connection YOU ARE PAYING FOR, or other such shenanigans then I could reasonably recommend them to family and friends. As it stands, You might as well just use dial up, since email, google, and MySpace is all the internet is good for anyway. What good is broadband without bit torrent? Are there hundreds of uses that I'm somehow missing? Does the average person really give two shits about streaming random teenagers singing into a webcam on youtube?
The corporate stranglehold on this country is the problem. It is the terminal malignancy that we are under not just in the technology sector, but in every way that should matter to the US citizen.
Yay, we voted out the corrupt and dirty Republicans! What's that you say, the Democrats are just as sold out to corporate interests and also don't give a shit about the American populace or the concepts of civil liberty as envisioned by our forefathers? Oh, shit....
rhY
Ok, so does that mean I can be Assistant Regional Manager, instead of Assistant TO the Regional Manager?
Dwight
So release it already? I never liked java so far, but maybe you'll find a blake ross or something.
rhY
It is my opinion that the open source nature of true open source is going to attract the majority of best coders. It seems an inevitable path, and furthermore information does not seem like something that is going to be exactly "secure" at least for the time being. However that could change with quantum computers, different fiber optics, who knows? I don't. But I do think that Real Open Source is what people are most interested, no matter the innovation/ renovation of windows and suse. Maybe Debian will continue to be the solid branch that all real Linux is built on, and maybe ReactOS or something takes over. You don't know. Firefox already has, so don't think a quick Novell buyout is going to grease your skids for much more than half a decade or so.
rhY
I don't have mod points, so I'm just here to give an amen....
That's also how I operate. :D
rhY