Bottom line is this - "It Just Works" is misleading at best.
You are very correct. If you choose to be as selective with hardware purchases for your Linux (x86) box as you are forced to be for your OS X box, then it all just works too. And I think I'd be pretty safe in saying the variety of "just works" hardware for Linux is a lot larger than the OS X "just works" hardware, even disregarding the fact that with Linux you can use "fuck with it for 10 hours and recompile your kernel twice" hardware if you really really want to, you are limited to only the "just works" level of support.
OS X is a big reminder to me, some people hate real freedom, some people hate real choices. They want choices made for them, they don't want the responsibility that comes with the real freedom to choose, the responsibility to do research and make an educated choice.
Who cares? The people you are talking about, the average user, is probably only dimly aware they are using Windows. It's not like they chose Windows, it's what their computer came with, it's what their apps run on. They would never do anything so radical as to change OS unless they a) had someone else to install it for them and b) had a compelling reason to change.
Sneaking it in when they aren't looking is a pretty safe bet, it's what allowed MS to succeed.
Excellent example, the color books at Sherwin Williams, you really think that have over 4000 different colors in that book, and most of those almost look that same as another color.
Are you colorblind or something? I work in the printing industry, and flipping through a Pantone book, each color looks distinct to me. I couldn't say, hey, that's the same color as that other color. In other words, given an unlabelled sample, I could find the pantone color it was (Assuming it was run to a fairly normal density). Some of them are pretty close to each other, but not the same color.
That's something known as etiquette. Sure, it's a shitty thing to do, but it's not something to drag someone into court over.
If they are framing your site and presenting your content as their own, then by all means sue their ass off, but punish the criminals who commit fraud, don't restrict legitimate people from doing normal things.
I hope you meant your comment to be facetious. DVD is no where near as good as it could have been if they weren't so busy trying to preserve their buggy-whip business models.
You should try it again, Ctrl-Tab works in my Linux version. I think it always has. (Ctrl-Tab is switch MDI window, Alt-Tab is to switch main application windows)
These keyboard shortcuts have been in place since Windows 3.1 as standard MDI shortcuts. Or did you mean you didn't like Ctrl-Tab inside MDI windows and Alt-Tab between other application windows? If so I guess you have a valid point, but with recent versions of Opera you can switch to non-MDI if you want very easily, it gives you a choice the first time you start up.
o there is an SMTP daemon running at your hosting provider that will recieve messages destined for you, bit wont accept messages coming from you? Unlikely,
What the fuck are you talking about. That is the way it is. They do not relay because that is your ISPs job, not theirs. They would have to implement some sort of SMTP auth to be able to relay in any case, which would cost them tons in support helping idiot customers set it up.
Regardless, you cant reach port 25 on that machine from your ISP
I never said my ISP blocked outgoing 25, some do though.
If your ISP will relay, could you not also get them to recieve incoming email for you? (they are an ISP)
No, because my email account may be anywhere in the world. I have an email account through my ISP that I never use. I'd rather not change my email address when I change ISPs.
The same mechanism allows pretty much anyone to send mail supposedly from you.
No shit sherlock. It's inherent in the system. Your system severly limits what people could do with email, and empowers ISP to have even greater control over users, something you yourself deride.
And VPN connections right new are relatively primitive, I agree, hard to setup and not very well standardized.
Did you ever read the fucking message? He said without VPN.
Why do we all accept this sorry state so readily?
Because the Internet provides a great amount of flexibility that your system lacks.
I'm sick of this conversation, you aren't even reading what I post, you are just posting unrelated garbage. I will not be replying any longer. I think it is obvious that you are wrong, and you just won't admit it. Your lack of basic understanding of DNS and mail is apparent. Don't go proposing solutions until you understand the problem.
but I suspect the RIAA will have a tough time finding a jury that will agree that posting a few songs on Kazaa is wrong (or that the punishment spelled out by the NET Act fits the "crime").
I suspect the drug warriors will have a tough time finding a jury that will agree that smoking a joint every now and then is wrong (or that the punishment spelled out by the drug laws fits the "crime").
This is what mx records were supposed to be for: if you want the mail service to be run on a different machine for a domain than the web service, you set the mx records appropriately. mx records are supposed to be for SMTP servers.
DNS doesn't care about web service, it was around long before the web. I don't understand your point, Netmar does run SMTP service, for incoming mail only, they do not relay, so I cannot use them to send mail through, they are a web host only not an ISP. A lot of hosting services do not relay for their hosting customers, the customers simply use their ISPs mail server as relay.
The DNS is not misconfigured at all, I don't know why you think it is.
You have no business running a mail server behind a "ISP" that has a noservers policy anyway.
These ISPs block TCP connections to DST port 25 other than to their mail server. An MTA service makes these types of connections, but so does anyone who tries to send mail directly to their destination without a relay.
Just read this message:
> Does anybody know of an automated method that a mail gateway could > use to determine if the source ip of a message is in a netblock > belonging to the domain of the sending address? Messages matching > this filter would then have to be be quarantined instead of > blocked/deleted, as there would undoubtedly be a high false positive > rate, but hey better than nothing right? > > Any suggestions or ideas welcomed.
God save us from idiocy like this.
This is as crude as the morons who, fed up with Chinese and/or Korean spam decided "China == APNIC is near enough" when implementing their filters... And to say "there would undoubtedly be a high false positive rate" is gross optimism.
Think for a few moments about why people post from IPs that are not in their address domains. Here's a few that probably cover 50+% of tech workers at any moment in history:
Tele-workers without a VPN connection
Doing evening work from home without a VPN connection
Doing weekend work from home without a VPN connection
Working while "on the road" without a VPN connection
Contractors who work on-site for a customer but whose Email
address remains their own or their employer's
Many forms of web mail
Users of large mail service providers such as Yahoo, Hotmail, etc
ISP/Email ASP users who have a cheaper connect method where they
are than directly connecting to the ISP/ASP but who wish to
maintain a single address at that service provider
Large-ish corporates who standardize their outgoing mail so it
all looks like @LargeCorp.com but who use networks and mail
servers "local" to their office/region/service provider/etc (i.e.
outside the US their IPs belong to various domains of the very
general for SomeHosting.net. and probably even send their
outgoing SMTP via smtp.SomeHosting.Net.).
People who insist on protecting their "privacy" by using
anonymizers
Mailing lists
Non-SMTP to SMTP gateways
This is getting boring so I'll stop now, but it took only a few milliseconds to recognize all those possibilities. The point is, Email is so useful because it is so flexible. Your filtering straightjacket is designed to fit a very idealized and limited view of the vagaries that really are Internet Email...
In short, unless you do not have to deal with "customers" via Email _at all_, this is a monumentally short-sighted idea.
I have never heard anyone [say] IE sucks for lack of MDI.
You must not read Slashdot much, all people can talk about is how great tabbed browsing is. Of course most of them are behind the curve, I've been using it since early Opera 4. No one really talked about it much until Mozilla copied the idea from Opera.
As far as Windows users not complaining... If you don't know there is a better alternative out there, you won't really complain much. How many Windows users complain about a lack of multiple desktops? That's because they just don't know the advantages of them.
For outgoing mail, its trivial to send it yourself, directly to the recipients incoming email server.
It's trivial for you and me to send it ourselves, but for people with ISPs that block outbound connections with destination port 25, it is impossible. It is also difficult for any windows user to do so, and it doesn't matter anyway, your system is still broken, read on.
As for virtual domains, so long as they resolve to the correct machine its not a problem. If the mx records resolve to your ISP's mail server, THATS FINE, it doesnt care about the other record types.
I don't think you get it. I have a web site, it is on www.netmar.com for hosting. Their MX record points to mail.netmar.com. My domains have mail.netmar.com as their MX. I check my mail by POPing mail.netmar.com. Netmar does not have SMTP available. I send mail through my ISPs SMTP server (a completely different company), or I could run a MTA myself. Either way, my mail will never appear to be coming from a server in my virtual domain. This scenario is not uncommon.
Maybe you think ISP always == web host...?
Your system would block at least 50% of the mail on the Internet.
This may change in response to the sneak-wrap license in mailed books that have been reported. In that case you cannot discard or destroy what was mailed, and you must bear the cost of returning the item if you do not accept the charges.
I've not heard of this, but it would be illegal in the US to mail someone something they did not order and then bill them for it. The law says that the recipient can consider anything that has such terms as a free gift, and is under no obligation to pay for it.
Say I am giving away my music and want a chance to sell my CDs and T-shirts before people download MP3. If people make links directly to all my MP3s, I will loose my chance to earn money.
WAAAAA, cry me a fucking river. You sound like the TV industry whining about people fast forwarding through commercials. I guess you advocate not allowing people to get up to go piss during commercials either.
One simple solution would be only to accept mail from joe@XYZ.com only from XYZ.com's mailserver.
Stupid idea, been discussed and shot down a million times. It would block 50% of the mail on the Internet.
I use my ISPs mail server for outgoing mail, and yet I use my email account from my web hosting provider. Basically everyone with a virtual host that wanted to get email@theirdomain.com would be fucked under your poorly thought out scheme.
Quit advocating something you obviously don't understand the implications of.
By the way, if you get the student discout, it's half price to buy opera, sans banner ads. And, unless i'm mistaken, that purchase lasts a lifetime.
It's less than half price last I checked, and you only get one major version upgrade before needing to repurchase. I bought Opera 4, and I had to buy again when 6 came out.
MS will probably never have tabbed browsing. MS officially declared MDI obselete, because it was application centric and not document centric. Just another way MS is not responsive to customers, their usability experts say it is better, so the customer can go to hell.
Slashdot Mirror
Bottom line is this - "It Just Works" is misleading at best.
You are very correct. If you choose to be as selective with hardware purchases for your Linux (x86) box as you are forced to be for your OS X box, then it all just works too. And I think I'd be pretty safe in saying the variety of "just works" hardware for Linux is a lot larger than the OS X "just works" hardware, even disregarding the fact that with Linux you can use "fuck with it for 10 hours and recompile your kernel twice" hardware if you really really want to, you are limited to only the "just works" level of support.
OS X is a big reminder to me, some people hate real freedom, some people hate real choices. They want choices made for them, they don't want the responsibility that comes with the real freedom to choose, the responsibility to do research and make an educated choice.
Who cares? The people you are talking about, the average user, is probably only dimly aware they are using Windows. It's not like they chose Windows, it's what their computer came with, it's what their apps run on. They would never do anything so radical as to change OS unless they a) had someone else to install it for them and b) had a compelling reason to change.
Sneaking it in when they aren't looking is a pretty safe bet, it's what allowed MS to succeed.
Oh, this isn't an interview with Wesley Willis?
Excellent example, the color books at Sherwin Williams, you really think that have over 4000 different colors in that book, and most of those almost look that same as another color.
Are you colorblind or something? I work in the printing industry, and flipping through a Pantone book, each color looks distinct to me. I couldn't say, hey, that's the same color as that other color. In other words, given an unlabelled sample, I could find the pantone color it was (Assuming it was run to a fairly normal density). Some of them are pretty close to each other, but not the same color.
That's something known as etiquette. Sure, it's a shitty thing to do, but it's not something to drag someone into court over.
If they are framing your site and presenting your content as their own, then by all means sue their ass off, but punish the criminals who commit fraud, don't restrict legitimate people from doing normal things.
So I guess all crop dusters have special permits? What about sky writers?
I call bullshit on YOU.
If the technology is good, as with DVD
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I hope you meant your comment to be facetious. DVD is no where near as good as it could have been if they weren't so busy trying to preserve their buggy-whip business models.
You should try it again, Ctrl-Tab works in my Linux version. I think it always has. (Ctrl-Tab is switch MDI window, Alt-Tab is to switch main application windows)
These keyboard shortcuts have been in place since Windows 3.1 as standard MDI shortcuts. Or did you mean you didn't like Ctrl-Tab inside MDI windows and Alt-Tab between other application windows? If so I guess you have a valid point, but with recent versions of Opera you can switch to non-MDI if you want very easily, it gives you a choice the first time you start up.
o there is an SMTP daemon running at your hosting provider that will recieve messages destined for you, bit wont accept messages coming from you? Unlikely,
What the fuck are you talking about. That is the way it is. They do not relay because that is your ISPs job, not theirs. They would have to implement some sort of SMTP auth to be able to relay in any case, which would cost them tons in support helping idiot customers set it up.
Regardless, you cant reach port 25 on that machine from your ISP
I never said my ISP blocked outgoing 25, some do though.
If your ISP will relay, could you not also get them to recieve incoming email for you? (they are an ISP)
No, because my email account may be anywhere in the world. I have an email account through my ISP that I never use. I'd rather not change my email address when I change ISPs.
The same mechanism allows pretty much anyone to send mail supposedly from you.
No shit sherlock. It's inherent in the system. Your system severly limits what people could do with email, and empowers ISP to have even greater control over users, something you yourself deride.
And VPN connections right new are relatively primitive, I agree, hard to setup and not very well standardized.
Did you ever read the fucking message? He said without VPN.
Why do we all accept this sorry state so readily?
Because the Internet provides a great amount of flexibility that your system lacks.
I'm sick of this conversation, you aren't even reading what I post, you are just posting unrelated garbage. I will not be replying any longer. I think it is obvious that you are wrong, and you just won't admit it. Your lack of basic understanding of DNS and mail is apparent. Don't go proposing solutions until you understand the problem.
Yeah, and in 1984 they just used newspeak because it was quicker and easier than remembering the overly verbose oldspeak.
He who controls language controls thought.
Print that message out and mail it to the post. It would make an excellent letter to the editor, I bet you would get published.
If you think CD prices are determined by the free market, I want some of what you are smoking.
but I suspect the RIAA will have a tough time finding a jury that will agree that posting a few songs on Kazaa is wrong (or that the punishment spelled out by the NET Act fits the "crime").
I suspect the drug warriors will have a tough time finding a jury that will agree that smoking a joint every now and then is wrong (or that the punishment spelled out by the drug laws fits the "crime").
Oh wait...
This is what mx records were supposed to be for: if you want the mail service to be run on a different machine for a domain than the web service, you set the mx records appropriately. mx records are supposed to be for SMTP servers.
DNS doesn't care about web service, it was around long before the web. I don't understand your point, Netmar does run SMTP service, for incoming mail only, they do not relay, so I cannot use them to send mail through, they are a web host only not an ISP. A lot of hosting services do not relay for their hosting customers, the customers simply use their ISPs mail server as relay.
The DNS is not misconfigured at all, I don't know why you think it is.
You have no business running a mail server behind a "ISP" that has a noservers policy anyway.
These ISPs block TCP connections to DST port 25 other than to their mail server. An MTA service makes these types of connections, but so does anyone who tries to send mail directly to their destination without a relay.
Just read this message:
> Does anybody know of an automated method that a mail gateway could
> use to determine if the source ip of a message is in a netblock
> belonging to the domain of the sending address? Messages matching
> this filter would then have to be be quarantined instead of
> blocked/deleted, as there would undoubtedly be a high false positive
> rate, but hey better than nothing right?
>
> Any suggestions or ideas welcomed.
God save us from idiocy like this.
This is as crude as the morons who, fed up with Chinese and/or Korean
spam decided "China == APNIC is near enough" when implementing their
filters... And to say "there would undoubtedly be a high false
positive rate" is gross optimism.
Think for a few moments about why people post from IPs that are not
in their address domains. Here's a few that probably cover 50+% of
tech workers at any moment in history:
Tele-workers without a VPN connection
Doing evening work from home without a VPN connection
Doing weekend work from home without a VPN connection
Working while "on the road" without a VPN connection
Contractors who work on-site for a customer but whose Email
address remains their own or their employer's
Many forms of web mail
Users of large mail service providers such as Yahoo, Hotmail, etc
ISP/Email ASP users who have a cheaper connect method where they
are than directly connecting to the ISP/ASP but who wish to
maintain a single address at that service provider
Large-ish corporates who standardize their outgoing mail so it
all looks like @LargeCorp.com but who use networks and mail
servers "local" to their office/region/service provider/etc (i.e.
outside the US their IPs belong to various domains of the very
general for SomeHosting.net. and probably even send their
outgoing SMTP via smtp.SomeHosting.Net.).
People who insist on protecting their "privacy" by using
anonymizers
Mailing lists
Non-SMTP to SMTP gateways
This is getting boring so I'll stop now, but it took only a few
milliseconds to recognize all those possibilities. The point is,
Email is so useful because it is so flexible. Your filtering
straightjacket is designed to fit a very idealized and limited
view of the vagaries that really are Internet Email...
In short, unless you do not have to deal with "customers" via Email
_at all_, this is a monumentally short-sighted idea.
--
Nick FitzGerald
Computer Virus Consulting Ltd.
Ph/FAX: +64 3 3529854
What does the range of apps have to do with anything? It's not like you can't run the apps without the desktop they were written for running.
I have never heard anyone [say] IE sucks for lack of MDI.
You must not read Slashdot much, all people can talk about is how great tabbed browsing is. Of course most of them are behind the curve, I've been using it since early Opera 4. No one really talked about it much until Mozilla copied the idea from Opera.
As far as Windows users not complaining... If you don't know there is a better alternative out there, you won't really complain much. How many Windows users complain about a lack of multiple desktops? That's because they just don't know the advantages of them.
For outgoing mail, its trivial to send it yourself, directly to the recipients incoming email server.
It's trivial for you and me to send it ourselves, but for people with ISPs that block outbound connections with destination port 25, it is impossible. It is also difficult for any windows user to do so, and it doesn't matter anyway, your system is still broken, read on.
As for virtual domains, so long as they resolve to the correct machine its not a problem. If the mx records resolve to your ISP's mail server, THATS FINE, it doesnt care about the other record types.
I don't think you get it. I have a web site, it is on www.netmar.com for hosting. Their MX record points to mail.netmar.com. My domains have mail.netmar.com as their MX. I check my mail by POPing mail.netmar.com. Netmar does not have SMTP available. I send mail through my ISPs SMTP server (a completely different company), or I could run a MTA myself. Either way, my mail will never appear to be coming from a server in my virtual domain. This scenario is not uncommon.
Maybe you think ISP always == web host...?
Your system would block at least 50% of the mail on the Internet.
Such as just now!
God Damn I am a fucking retard. I should have checked the actual vegan.com link instead of trusting the subject.
Uhh, HuntingTON
:) It's OK, I've done much worse many times.
Man, I bet you feel dumb right about now.
Those 80% of the sites aren't usually the ones with lame linking policies. We are mostly talking about fairly large organizations here.
This may change in response to the sneak-wrap license in mailed books that have been reported. In that case you cannot discard or destroy what was mailed, and you must bear the cost of returning the item if you do not accept the charges.
I've not heard of this, but it would be illegal in the US to mail someone something they did not order and then bill them for it. The law says that the recipient can consider anything that has such terms as a free gift, and is under no obligation to pay for it.
Say I am giving away my music and want a chance to sell my CDs and T-shirts before people download MP3. If people make links directly to all my MP3s, I will loose my chance to earn money.
WAAAAA, cry me a fucking river. You sound like the TV industry whining about people fast forwarding through commercials. I guess you advocate not allowing people to get up to go piss during commercials either.
One simple solution would be only to accept mail from joe@XYZ.com only from XYZ.com's mailserver.
Stupid idea, been discussed and shot down a million times. It would block 50% of the mail on the Internet.
I use my ISPs mail server for outgoing mail, and yet I use my email account from my web hosting provider. Basically everyone with a virtual host that wanted to get email@theirdomain.com would be fucked under your poorly thought out scheme.
Quit advocating something you obviously don't understand the implications of.
By the way, if you get the student discout, it's half price to buy opera, sans banner ads. And, unless i'm mistaken, that purchase lasts a lifetime.
It's less than half price last I checked, and you only get one major version upgrade before needing to repurchase. I bought Opera 4, and I had to buy again when 6 came out.
MS will probably never have tabbed browsing. MS officially declared MDI obselete, because it was application centric and not document centric. Just another way MS is not responsive to customers, their usability experts say it is better, so the customer can go to hell.