The Industrial Age is over. The future is a bunch of small, barely self-sustaining agrarian communities loosely interconnected. With the upcoming end of the Information Age the energy requirements will plummet. It's been a great century and some, but science and technology have run their course. The place for Man is with Nature.
In fact this turns out to be wrong. At certain times of the year (and day) Germany exports to France, but for every year since 2011 Germany has been a net importer of electricity from France.
Because Germany has had to install wind and solar overcapacity it is forced to export its electricity at low rates when it has too much and import electricity at high rates when there is less wind and sun.
With that strategy they have managed to boost sales for their commercial license, but it is probably also one of the main reasons why Ada has not gained and will never gain any widespread popularity.
You think that is why Ada hasn't gained widespread popularity?
I remember when it was called "Green". No way was it ever going to be popular.
Well, no. It was a PCSO, a part-time cop's helper, who made all the fuss, not the train company.
The real cops decided not to arrest the guy because they realized it wasn't worth it, but he was then such an irritating piece of shit that they re-arrested him for being a dick in a public place.
Both the fake cop and the "I need to charge my iPhone, waaa" baby are clearly morons.
On this actual subject, this is 100% LOL worthy and really did have me snigger because I'm thinking "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK ELECTRICAL SOCKETS ARE FOR YOU DUMBASS!!!".
They're for the cleaning staff to plug their vacuum cleaners in. They are clearly labelled "not for use by the public".
So serious Linux users are facing a small number of choices: 1. To continue to use older, pre-systemd Linux distros for as long as is practically possible. 2. To use Linux Mint, which for the time being is the only major and usable modern Linux distro that isn't forcing systemd on its users. 3. Move to some other operating system, typically one of the BSDs, or even Windows.
Collectively, modern Linux distros are quickly becoming a systemd monoculture, and experience has shown us that monocultures are dangerous, especially in the context of software.
In what way is Debian Jessie not a "major and usable modern Linux distro"?
systemd is one of the init systems available for Jessie If you want to use sysvinit, uupstart or openrc feel free.
--#1, systemd takes away choice. Binary logging by default is incredibly bad, and I don't want to have to change it manually every time I do an install.
The defaut for Debian Jessie is to install rsyslogd. If you want some other syslog then just apt-get install it. I can't see what choice it's taking away.
I think way too many distros are changing over to systemd when it's not really what a lot of people want or need. SysV was OK, Upstart was fine for most people's needs.
In what way is syslogd not "fine for most people's needs"?
Give me a sane/etc/rc.local at bootup and I'm good.
On Debian Jessie rc.local is run on boot.
$ systemctl status rc.local * rc-local.service -/etc/rc.local Compatibility
Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rc-local.service; static)
Active: active (exited) since Tue 2015-07-07 17:10:26 CEST; 17h ago
Process: 616 ExecStart=/etc/rc.local start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
--Systemd resembles the MCP from TRON too much for my taste,
No, it doesn't. There are no glowing neon effects
it's taking over too many functions and subsystems.
Like? And no, don't cite dhcpclient, or ntpd, I'm running systemd based systems with stock dhcpclient and ntp.
I've also seen reports of systems being unable to boot that are running systemd when they were working fine before they were upgraded.
I've seen reports of systems that were working fine before upgrades of almost all software you could choose to name. The question is whether those bugs were fixed.
--#2, Linux Mint Debian edition is pretty reputable, I wouldn't exactly call it niche.
Well, I consider it niche, but then again I consider Ubuntu niche:-). If you're going to use a Debian based distro I don't see why you wouldn't want to use Debian itself.
Devuan admittedly needs to do a general ISO release to make sure it gets better exposure and testing (update - I just checked their page and it looks like they have made progress in the last couple of months, so I plan to test Devuan $soon.)
I still don't know what Devuan is for -- it's a version of Jessie that doesn't have systemd, but systemd is an optional feature of Jessie.
--I'm not an AC. I've been using/adminning Linux since 1996, and I *despise* systemd. I'm looking into Mint Debian edition #2, Void, and Devuan to get away from systemd.
Great, a real human being.
1. You "despise" systemd. Care to be more concrete. What do you think is "insane" about systemd? In what way is rsyslog not a valid logging solution?
2. You're looking into a whole bunch of niche distros and vapourware. Why not just use Debian Jessie?
(Worked on contract for Markt und Technic, the German (Munich) company that bought Dr Dobbs. Interesting people, trying to set up a the Well like system on Unix servers in the late 80's)
Update to a recent Gnome and it will bellyache about logind, that in turn is part of system[d]. End result, what used to be a desktop that can run on top of any init requires a specific init.
Slashdot Mirror
The Industrial Age is over. The future is a bunch of small, barely self-sustaining agrarian communities loosely interconnected. With the upcoming end of the Information Age the energy requirements will plummet. It's been a great century and some, but science and technology have run their course. The place for Man is with Nature.
With your plan the place for man is in the grave.
Moron.
basically, France should be pushing AE, but as a replacement for their coal plants.
What coal plants?
Oh, yes, there are three. One of them is being refitted to burn wood.
http://www.eon.fr/fr/our-activities/production-energy/gaz-et-electricite/la-production-deon-en-2011.html
In fact this turns out to be wrong. At certain times of the year (and day) Germany exports to France, but for every year since 2011 Germany has been a net importer of electricity from France.
Source https://www.energy-charts.de/exchange.htm
From those charts France has been a net exporter to Germany for every year since 2011.
Because Germany has had to install wind and solar overcapacity it is forced to export its electricity at low rates when it has too much and import electricity at high rates when there is less wind and sun.
Numbers?
Current EDF tarrifs are 0.144 EUR/kWh (flat rate, or you can go for the night rate deal, 0.1572 daytime, 0.1096 off peak).
I've seen claims that average US prices are around 12.64 cents/kWh, http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/update/end_use.cfm which is more or less exactly the same amount.
With that strategy they have managed to boost sales for their commercial license, but it is probably also one of the main reasons why Ada has not gained and will never gain any widespread popularity.
You think that is why Ada hasn't gained widespread popularity?
I remember when it was called "Green". No way was it ever going to be popular.
(Or whatever the equivalent is for your distro).
Shows anything?
Yes, as I said, PCSO's are a bunch of jerks, as are self obsesed iphone users who can't read notices that say "don't use this socket".
Of course, when the police swear and shout, it's fine
Actually, no, it isn't. If the police swear at you it's a disciplinable offence. Take their number and report them.
Well, no. It was a PCSO, a part-time cop's helper, who made all the fuss, not the train company.
The real cops decided not to arrest the guy because they realized it wasn't worth it, but he was then such an irritating piece of shit that they re-arrested him for being a dick in a public place.
Both the fake cop and the "I need to charge my iPhone, waaa" baby are clearly morons.
On this actual subject, this is 100% LOL worthy and really did have me snigger because I'm thinking "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK ELECTRICAL SOCKETS ARE FOR YOU DUMBASS!!!".
They're for the cleaning staff to plug their vacuum cleaners in. They are clearly labelled "not for use by the public".
So serious Linux users are facing a small number of choices:
1. To continue to use older, pre-systemd Linux distros for as long as is practically possible.
2. To use Linux Mint, which for the time being is the only major and usable modern Linux distro that isn't forcing systemd on its users.
3. Move to some other operating system, typically one of the BSDs, or even Windows.
Collectively, modern Linux distros are quickly becoming a systemd monoculture, and experience has shown us that monocultures are dangerous, especially in the context of software.
In what way is Debian Jessie not a "major and usable modern Linux distro"?
systemd is one of the init systems available for Jessie If you want to use sysvinit, uupstart or openrc feel free.
There is no such thing as hate speech. Doesn't exist. Not a legal concept in the United States.
And everybody knows that lawyers get to define reality.
If you go to the store and purchase something, logically that is your property.
What planet are you living on?
In what way is syslogd not "fine for most people's needs"?
Shit, read a comment 300 times before posting and still make a stupid mistake.
I of course meant to write:
In what way is [systemd] not "fine for most people's needs"?
Seems like nobody wants to make phones any more.
--#1, systemd takes away choice. Binary logging by default is incredibly bad, and I don't want to have to change it manually every time I do an install.
The defaut for Debian Jessie is to install rsyslogd. If you want some other syslog then just apt-get install it. I can't see what choice it's taking away.
I think way too many distros are changing over to systemd when it's not really what a lot of people want or need. SysV was OK, Upstart was fine for most people's needs.
In what way is syslogd not "fine for most people's needs"?
Give me a sane /etc/rc.local at bootup and I'm good.
On Debian Jessie rc.local is run on boot.
--Systemd resembles the MCP from TRON too much for my taste,
No, it doesn't. There are no glowing neon effects
it's taking over too many functions and subsystems.
Like? And no, don't cite dhcpclient, or ntpd, I'm running systemd based systems with stock dhcpclient and ntp.
I've also seen reports of systems being unable to boot that are running systemd when they were working fine before they were upgraded.
I've seen reports of systems that were working fine before upgrades of almost all software you could choose to name. The question is whether those bugs were fixed.
--#2, Linux Mint Debian edition is pretty reputable, I wouldn't exactly call it niche.
Well, I consider it niche, but then again I consider Ubuntu niche :-). If you're going to use a Debian based distro I don't see why you wouldn't want to use Debian itself.
Devuan admittedly needs to do a general ISO release to make sure it gets better exposure and testing (update - I just checked their page and it looks like they have made progress in the last couple of months, so I plan to test Devuan $soon.)
I still don't know what Devuan is for -- it's a version of Jessie that doesn't have systemd, but systemd is an optional feature of Jessie.
--I'm not an AC. I've been using/adminning Linux since 1996, and I *despise* systemd. I'm looking into Mint Debian edition #2, Void, and Devuan to get away from systemd.
Great, a real human being.
1. You "despise" systemd. Care to be more concrete. What do you think is "insane" about systemd? In what way is rsyslog not a valid logging solution?
2. You're looking into a whole bunch of niche distros and vapourware. Why not just use Debian Jessie?
I met the man.
(Worked on contract for Markt und Technic, the German (Munich) company that bought Dr Dobbs. Interesting people, trying to set up a the Well like system on Unix servers in the late 80's)
Get off my lawn, noob.
Sorry? We're talking about Debian Jessie here.
Update to a recent Gnome and it will bellyache about logind, that in turn is part of system[d]. End result, what used to be a desktop that can run on top of any init requires a specific init.
Or install consolekit2, or systemd-shim.
I am also aware that doing so doesn't remove the dependencies on the libraries
Why do you care? The only reason that library exists is to make sure that systemd is not a required package.
Or are you simply alergic to the d,e,m,s,t and y?
I am also aware [...]that the systemd team is hard at work removing even that option.
Oh, you are an insane person, so sorry, I thought for a moment it was worth talking to you.
You should try looking at the other pages, there's more than one there.
Hahaha. I guess you've never seen a busy mailing list.
Meanwhile, if you think Jessie doesn't use systemd, you clearly haven't been paying attention to that either.
And if you don't know that systemd is optional in Jessie then you clearly haven't been paying attention.