Ellen Pao Leaves Reddit; Site Founder Steve Huffman Makes a Triumphant Return

Deathspawner writes: To say that it's been a tumultuous month for reddit is an understatement. While multiple events have occurred in recent months that have caused an uproar, such as the banning of popular "hate" subreddits, nothing impacted the site quite like the out-of-nowhere firing of "Ask Me Anything" admin Victoria Taylor last week. Following that, other minor revelations surfaced, and finally, this past Monday, reddit CEO Ellen Pao came out from hiding to issue an apology. While her message instilled a bit more confidence in the future of the site, it wasn't enough. Today, it's been announced that Ellen Pao has left the company she joined last fall, and will be superseded by someone who knows what he's getting into: founder Steve Huffman.

Comments

Well, she was an interim.

[gcnaddict]

Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on offensive speech. She was then canned as a scapegoat, the desired person was brought in for the long term role, and all of Ellen's changes stick.

All the while, Reddit looks like it acquiesced to the masses. Brilliantly played.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[msauve]

"Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on politically incorrect speech."

FTFY.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

No im sure they can continue to make fun of republicans there.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[kuzb]

Ellen is a person who brazenly attempted to abuse the gender inequality debate in a high profile court case to make millions of dollars when she was fired for being abrasive, lazy and generally incompetent. Her husband is just as scummy a person, who participates in ponzi schemes and other less than above board activities. I'm frankly happy she's gone from Reddit. She is a horrible person.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ellen is a person who brazenly attempted to abuse the gender inequality debate

Not to mention that she, herself, is a bigot that is openly discriminatory against other women. Basically, she's a hypocrite and will use any excuse she can to put others down when it means she has something to gain.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

Censoring people undermine's reddit though.

Its like removing all the porn links from google. You only think you're doing something that won't horribly backfire if you don't understand the business you're in.

As the man said "The internet intepretes censorship as DAMAGE and routes around it." You can't censor people on the internet.

And if you turn your site into a corporate friendly disneyland then many of the content creators will leave, you'll give a niche for competitors to exploit, and the viewers that like that content will leave with them.

Think of Reddit like a bee hive. The content creators like bees. And the 99 percent of users that don't actually contribute anything as the Honey.

The problem with bees is that they sting. So somewhere along the way they said "wouldn't it be cool if we could get rid of the bees and just keep the hive and the honey!"... well... sure. But then you'd just have a box of honey. It doesn't work that way though.

The bees make the honey. And the hive is only as good as it makes the bees happy and productive. Fuck with the bees and you get no honey.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I find your comment offensive. If Slashdot hires me I'll clamp down on offensive speech, especially offensive speech against freedom of speech!

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Type44Q]

Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on offensive speech.

"Offense is never given, it's only ever taken."

-Unknown

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."

Brigham Young

WTF happened to the basic American principle of dying for the right of the offensive to be offensive... not just when we don't agree but especially when we don't agree??

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[samoanbiscuit]

Ellen is a person who brazenly attempted to abuse the gender inequality debate in a high profile court case to make millions of dollars when she was fired for being abrasive, lazy and generally incompetent.

Actually, it's not at all brazen. The facts of the case painted the firm as pretty sexist. What they could not prove to a reasonable standard was that this background sexism was directly responsible for her not getting promotions and bonuses. Her husband's legal problems also complicate the narrative, and cast doubt on her intentions

This is why the civil rights movement in the 60s waited for Rosa Parks, even though there had been several incidents of black women being mistreated on buses prior to Ms Parks' case. People are simple-minded, and confounding factors (like illegitimate children, alcohol/drug addictions, unsympathetic looks when it came to these many black women who went through what Rosa Parks went through) make your cause less likely to be successful, as unfair as that is.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[tsotha]

It's not about principle. It's about power. For an SJW, to take offense is to give yourself the power to close down the speech of others. That's why they take offense at everything.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I recommend reading the Wikipedia articles on both of them. Quite a pair:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

They are Harvard educated elite grievance energizer bunnies, they just keep going!

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[0100010001010011]

And they made the announcement on a Friday afternoon as close to close of business as possible.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on offensive speech.

"Offense is never given, it's only ever taken."

-Unknown

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."

Brigham Young

WTF happened to the basic American principle of dying for the right of the offensive to be offensive... not just when we don't agree but especially when we don't agree??

4chan is what happened. Who needs another shitty cesspool of Internet assholes?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think your thesis needs more than a couple quotes.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

>"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young

That's a +100 year old quote about letting trolls rustling your jimmies.

I smell time shenanigans.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Snufu]

I find your comment insectist and demand a full retraction and apology.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

well you're posting here, so, you do.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF happened to the basic American principle of dying for the right of the offensive to be offensive

The same thing that happened to the basic American principle of dying for the right to own slaves; most of us figured out that it was a goddamn stupid thing to die for and moved on.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Lije Baley]

Oh boy, this must be Slashdot, here they go with the bee analogy again!

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You ought to hear how we Conservatives make fun of Democrats... Whole lot of fun, less fun what they're doing to this country though...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[squiggleslash]

She didn't though, the clampdown was about using Reddit to organize harassment, not the viewpoints of the people concerned. And this wasn't even the first time a forum had been closed for significant off-Reddit behavior, from TheFappening to SonyGOP - the latter of which I'd be inclined to think should be more controversial than a sub dedicated to shaming people - specific people, in real life - with a particular medical condition.

I know it's unpopular to point it out, but honestly, if this were about views, don't you think rather a lot more subs would have been closed? Reddit's not exactly known for being dominated by left wing "politically correct" (urgh) subreddits, quite the opposite in fact...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

And like politically incorrect speech isn't discouraged here on/.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[RedK]

Nope, SRS and SRD are still there and engaging in harassement as they usually do. So she didn't even manage to clamp down on harassing subreddits.

Don't mistake what the FPH ban was : a political move to gain mainstream political correctness point in the eyes of the HAES and FA movements. Remember : 70% of americans are now overweight (source : http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx). It pays to cater to the majority.

If the goal was banning harassment, FPH was not the subreddit to ban. For the most part, they were simply keeping to their own dark corner and doing their thing amongst themselves. You had to go out of your way to "get harassed", by visiting the subreddit while fat and looking for pictures of yourself. Or worse: submitting your pictures in an attempt to get attention.

You just bought the media narrative hook, line and sinker.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[fey000]

He who forgets the lessons of the past is bound to repeat it.

There was a reason for the right to free speech. I fear a lot of bad things will come as a result of "moving on" from that right.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect the masses moved the timing a bit - I very much doubt the plan was for her to step down right now, as there's still a lot more monitization that could be done.

But, other than that, I'm cynical enough to agree.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ellen is a person who brazenly attempted to abuse the gender inequality debate in a high profile court case to make millions of dollars when she was fired for being abrasive, lazy and generally incompetent. Her husband is just as scummy a person, who participates in ponzi schemes and other less than above board activities. I'm frankly happy she's gone from Reddit. She is a horrible person.

This. She's a raging POS who exposed herself as such. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out, Ellen.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a typical CxO to me

That's a very bigoted statement

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You should see what the republicans are doing. Don't think those back water folk will ever see the light of a new and better world with their head in the sand.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[SvnLyrBrto]

> WTF happened to the basic American principle of
> dying for the right of the offensive to be offensive...
> not just when we don't agree but especially when we
> don't agree??

That's not really relevant. Your right to free and offensive speech does not impose on anyone else, person or corporation, an obligation to provide you with a platform for said speech.

What I have to wonder, though, is when in the history of the internet has this sort of thing actually worked? Every example I can recall of a site or service that established itself as a seedy, politically incorrect, or overly juvenile corner of the internet, that has then tried to sanitize itself and purge the trolls, douchebags and irreverent, and make itself all family-friendly and leave-it-to-beaver-ish, has wound up eventually collapsing and fading into obscurity. Indeed, It already looks like an exodus from reddit to voat has already begun.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah yes, the leftist promise of the radiant socialist future, where everyone is equally oppressed and poor.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

It really is less fun what the Conservatives are doing to this country.... You are correct!

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Most speech is offensive to at least someone at some point in time. If reddit truly wanted to keep the special snowflakes safe, they'd just close the site.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[epyT-R]

The problem is that 'harassment' now includes offending someone with words that do not conform with left wing viewpoints, so the debate ends up being about political correctness vs freedom of speech.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ellen is a person who brazenly attempted to abuse the gender inequality debate

Not to mention that she, herself, is a bigot that is openly discriminatory against other women. Basically, she's a hypocrite and will use any excuse she can to put others down when it means she has something to gain.

Prepare to be sued for defamation Mr. Anonymous Coward.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because "I hope Anita Sarkeesian is raped to death" is merely politically incorrect.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm frankly happy she's gone from Reddit. She is a horrible person.

Aww... She left where she belongs.

I hope you weren't seriously suggesting that other users of Reddit aren't horrible people.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[mattack2]

This is why the civil rights movement in the 60s waited for Rosa Parks,

Wait, the infamous bus incident happened in 1955.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[russotto]

Did they talk about Sarkeesian on /r/FatPeopleHate? Seems unlikely; she seems a bit emaciated by their standards.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[epyT-R]

4chan was sterilized too, during the heyday of gamergate. There are those who think that self righteous, attention seeking victimhood is an example of 'internet asshole.'

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[O('_')O_Bush]

If society has devolved to the point where it is acceptable to clamp down on unpopular (aka offensive) speech, then please, kill me now. I want no part of a society like that.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[epyT-R]

Perhaps you should move someplace where your delicate sensitivities are protected by law. There are plenty of places like that to go (try western europe or the UK). Those of us who prefer our free speech unfettered wish to retain that right (among others). Despite your fallacious attempt to link these rights to slavery, the reality is that slavery is 180 degrees out from them: slaves did not have free speech, right of self defense, or the right to peacefully assemble, either.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[ezdiy]

To be honest it was just temporary curb of obvious legionf*ggotry, similiar happened to ponies and even boxxy. Too much of single topic is simply too much. GG pretty much amounted to raid by angry virgins. Nowadays /pol/ is rocking as usual, incorrect and juvenile as ever. Butthurt legion types mostly migrated to 8chan which seized the opportunity - it worked out well for everyone in the end. Ironically it's the GG who now get raided regularly by oldschool trolls, but nothing large scale, board bussiness as usual.

Reddit is entirely different beast (as it has better prospects to extract profit from its users, it's adequately more censored).

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[twistedcubic]

It's OK. Everyone knows he's just making up a random cause-effect scenario to support his argument. He thinks the number of black women with illegitimate children or alcohol/drug addiction in 1950s was so high that we had to "wait" for someone with a clean record. I know this offends the average Slashdot reader, but it's amazing how racial stereotypes cloud this guy's judgement. Drug addiction among black women in Alabama in the 1950s was practically nonexistent, while alcoholism was extremely rare for black women. And if you doubt this, you might at least agree that drug addiction/alcoholism/unwed children are much more common today than decades ago. The guy is projecting 1980s racial stereotypes decades into the past.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

And where else does Reddit get more attention than on Slashdot? When does the buyout happen, Dice??? C'mon! Spill it! Ya bastards!

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Funksaw]

If I say something that's considered to be insensitive in certain contexts, or a word that has been associated with hate and bigotry, that's political incorrect. It is "politically incorrect" to call black people "colored," even though the octogenerian users of that term may not have even seen anything wrong with it's use, it wasn't always seen as an offensive word, and in fact, is part of the name of the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). That's political incorrectness. And you treat political incorrectness with stern correction that the behavior is "not appropriate," and you try to educate, if possible. Hate speech is when you *know* how hurtful your words are **and that's the entire point of why you say them.** The stuff Reddit banned during Pao's tenure absolutely, positively qualified as "hate speech."

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[msauve]

The statement said "offensive," not "hate," so you're arguing a red herring.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Versus the rightist ideal of allowing the best and brightest to thrive by giving advantages to a few select elite.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Who modded this "insightful" :-D Virtually every statement against KP is is preceded by "The Kleiner Perkins described by Pao .... She reports ... Pao’s attorney has argued... ". If what she claimed had any substance to it, she would have won her case. Other statements are about an unrelated study by some researcher about law firms..

This is how convenient narratives take hold. No one bothers to read..

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Crashmarik]

Personally I just hope she gets what her positive contribution to society warrants.

living alone, unnoticed, in a card board box somewhere.

Alas we live in a world with little justice.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[fahrbot-bot]

If society has devolved to the point where it is acceptable to clamp down on unpopular (aka offensive) speech, then please, kill me now. I want no part of a society like that.

Depends on who's doing the clamping. The Government? Unacceptable. But individuals, companies, corporations don't have to fund or support unpopular or offensive expression - as determined by those entities themselves. The First Amendment only says the Government cannot make laws that interfere with your speech...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

> 4chan is what happened. Who needs another shitty cesspool of Internet assholes?

4chan became SJW central, along with Reddit. I'll let that sink in for a moment.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Versus the rightist ideal of allowing the best and brightest to thrive. period

FTFY

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Bing Tsher E]

But there are also hornets, and wasps, on reddit. Hornets and wasps seek out and kill honeybees.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

posting anon due to modding but plain and simple the issue with political correctness is that it seems that every day a new word is "offensive" I mean cali is in the middle of trying to remove "husband" and "wife" because its some kind of "-ist"

nothing is never enough for some people, i mean we have people literally wanting to dig up the dead and move them to not "offend"

It is disgusting ~ Ganjadude

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[kelemvor4]

No im sure they can continue to make fun of republicans there.

News flash: Republicans get made fun of everywhere.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You right leaning republikkkan nitwits wouldn't know a real socialist if one jumped up your fundament and bit down on your colon.

Your ignorance would actually be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. Here, let me spell it out for you.

DEMOCRAT DOES NOT EQUAL SOCIALIST

There. Can you understand that? Do you know how to read, you ignorant fuck?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[epyT-R]

Gee, someone is just a tad biased.

What about when Poole was flirting with investors? At least that was the rumor at the time.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Fire_Wraith]

The notion of having a 'perfect plaintiff' is entirely well established in legal theory. Part of the reason is precedent - if you lose a case, especially the sort of case that goes all the way to the Supreme Court, getting a resounding judgment against your side is a pretty big blow, because it means future attempts will have a much harder time getting past the established doctrine.

So, you want a client who's squeaky clean, that doesn't have any character flaws or potentially shady past that the opposition can point to. You want someone that is more likely to evoke sympathy, because even though it shouldn't matter in the eyes of the law, judges (and juries) are human, and prone to human inclination of liking or disliking someone.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[dreamchaser]

Those among Reddit users that you refer to, the 'horrible' ones, are not the CEO. You're making an apples and oranges argument.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Sardaukar86]

For a Slashdot analogy that wasn't based on comparisons to cars, that was a damn good metaphor for the Reddit situation.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[dgatwood]

4chan is what happened. Who needs another shitty cesspool of Internet assholes?

Everyone does. The more cesspools where such behavior is tolerated, the less we'll have to deal with those people everywhere else.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Allegations are the new facts. But only if they tell people what they want to hear.

It works on the same principle as editing Wikipedia in order to change reality, except that you edit the stories in the media itself and they're looking for clickbait. So they find the people most susceptible to overreaction and have their stories pander to that userbase. Those who get baited will hyperventilate over the stories and care little about the truth of them, as long as they're hearing what they want to hear.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

And this wasn't even the first time a forum had been closed for significant off-Reddit behavior, from TheFappening to SonyGOP - the latter of which I'd be inclined to think should be more controversial than a sub dedicated to shaming people - specific people, in real life - with a particular medical condition. I know it's unpopular to point it out, but honestly, if this were about views, don't you think rather a lot more subs would have been closed?

Ah, but connect the dots. The Fappening and the Sony hack both negatively impacted Hollywood so Reddit had to do something. It's not about views, it's about who complains.

Reddit's celebrity Ask Me Anything forum is one of their biggest traffic draws. They devoted resources to build a whole app just for that one part of the site. It's clear Reddit sees Hollywood as the golden goose, and will go to great lengths to protect their access to celebrities. In the aftermath of Victoria Taylor's ouster, among questions and confusion from the volunteers who operate there... Reddit's official response was (paraphrasing) "just tell all the celebrities you work with to email us directly!" They're trying real hard to cut out any middle men and control the message and the celebrity access.

Whatever reason they gave for banning the Fat People Hate forum, I guarandamntee you what got the ball rolling was complaints from some celebrity/ies who got their feelings hurt. The first time an African American B-list celeb comes across the Coon Town forum and makes a Tweet about it, that'll be next to get the ban hammer. They'll write some flowery release about how they're working to make the world a better place, but it's all about keeping that sweet Hollywood spice flowing.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, those single Jewish women take offense at everything.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

We've really turned into a nation of pussies.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Versus the rightist ideal of allowing the best at abusing others to thrive. period

FTFY

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Boronx]

There are all kinds of things going on in a beehive besides bees stinging and making honey. The bees spend a fair amount of time keeping out undesirable organisms.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Boronx]

Americans also don't whine. Make your own damn site. Jesus Christ.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[onthemightofprinces]

You mean something able to withstand enormous amounts of exterior and interior trauma and worshipped by 50% of the population?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Damarkus13]

That's just silly. The only thing that has changed is what topics are taboo.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[niftydude]

Republican presidential candidates: George Bush, George W. Bush, and now likely Jeb Bush.

Nope, no nepotism here, I am sure that they were each the best man for the job out of a population of 200+ million.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[x0ra]

Versus the leftist ideal of allowing the most incompetent but most popular at controlling by force others.

FTFY

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Republicans. They have destroyed free thought. They want to be the boot stamping out hope for mankind for the rest of our future as Orwell described. People like this Pao ruler of Reddit hate freedom. They censor and take our voices away. That is the way of their kind. This Pao CONservative hates us. That is why she banned so many thousands of freethinkers on reddit. They are banned. So banned. Those Republicans hate the idea of anything having a real thought. This is part of their war on human thought.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[JDG1980]

Actually, it's not at all brazen. The facts of the case painted the firm as pretty sexist.

What facts? Most of the claims in that article are unfounded allegations. We only have Ellen Pao's word that they happened, and I don't believe that is worth much. Neither, apparently, did the men and women on the jury.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[x0ra]

Democracy might not evolve to socialism, but it would require people to be informed and well-educated. Socialism is merely driven by emotion, which is unfortunately where most democracy tends to go to, which is what fuel Democrats.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[JDG1980]

That's not really relevant. Your right to free and offensive speech does not impose on anyone else, person or corporation, an obligation to provide you with a platform for said speech.

It isn't about who has a legal obligation to do what. It's about the fact that Reddit was founded as, and run as, a platform specifically dedicated to free speech. If someone comes in and tries to change the culture so that the site can more easily be sold to a big conglomerate, it's not surprising that the site's long-term users are going to push back.

It's the same reason why people get upset about universities curtailing freedom of expression even when they are privately run and not part of the state government. Academic freedom is a major part of what a university is supposed to be. In the same way, free speech (restricted only by the handful of exceptions required by U.S. law) is part of what Reddit is supposed to be about.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[sabri]

Personally I just hope she gets what her positive contribution to society warrants.

Positive contributions? If anything, this woman provides fuel to businesses and corporations that are hesitant to have women climb the corporate ladder.

First she sues her former employer, and loses on all counts.

Then she implements the most stupid HR policy I have ever seen: "we don't negotiate with job candidates because men negotiate better than women".

And the final straw was her not-so-brilliant PR move in upsetting her user base.

Not exactly the strong female CEO that Reddit needs. In fact, Ellen Pao is exactly the opposite of Marissa Mayer. Marissa is, so far, pretty successful in leading Yahoo. I don't work for Yahoo or ever have, but I'm a fan of Marissa Mayer. Silicon Valley needs more women like Marissa, and less like Ellen.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[donscarletti]

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young

"It's easy to maintain a healthy self esteem if you have an enormous haram and run your own religion." -Me

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[JDG1980]

She didn't though, the clampdown was about using Reddit to organize harassment, not the viewpoints of the people concerned.

That was the official line. But in fact, every subsequent attempt to create an anti-fat subreddit was immediately banned, even if they were created by completely different people and hadn't ever committed any harassing behavior. There was viewpoint discrimination going on whether the management admitted it or not.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also you're a space Jesus and should bang everything with two legs, dudes excludes. And the negroes, they aren't human.
-also Brigham Young

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[rogoshen1]

In one of Malcolm Gladwell's books (forget which one, also take with a grain of salt) The reason that Rosa Parks set things off the way she did wasn't so much about her, but who she knew.

Namely, she had a rather large network of social contacts that could be used to rally to her cause. Had she been the exact same person, but a shut in -- it wouldn't have happened the same way.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, the fact that she tried to extort millions from an employer that proved they fired her for being lazy and toxic by coming up with wild, unproven allegations of sexism, none of which were proven in court, yet widely repeated in the press in spite of the lack of substantiation, doesn't make her 'horrible' at all?

When I was sexually harassed, I actually had to prove it. And I didn't go after my employer, I went after the guy who stuck his hands where they did not belong.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, we get to vote for an Orwellian funhouse of NeoFeudalism either way.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, she is a hard-core Republican so she doesn't believe in free speech. That's why she constantly censors subreddits by deleting them. Also, as any true progressive on the site can confirm, she shadowbans people by the thousands.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Mashiki]

GG pretty much amounted to raid by angry virgins.

I guess that's why it's going on 11 months now, and has done more to clean up the ethical problems in the game 'journalism' industry than anyone to date right? Even Ian Miles Cheong(Gameranx) who came out viciously anti-gamergate has apologized, created an ethical policy and his site is growing again. Funny that. If you think that ~700k people going by KiA's stats alone are "a raid by angry virgins" then you're probably one of those folks that believe the politburo was a bastion of truth.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a difficult time believing an informed and well-educated person capable of the above opinion.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no such thing as hate speech. Doesn't exist. Not a legal concept in the United States.

It was rude, crude, disgusting, at times hateful - but it was NOT "hate speech".

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Aust one point or another the fun club house attracts a little too much drama and someone is called on to account for it. The good old days are over and adulthood is expected to begin, and that means either the jig is up or you must compromise.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

So politically correct, nobody will ever want to visit Reddit again. Great job Pao...

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Mashiki]

Censorship is censorship it doesn't matter if it's government, a person self-censoring, or a business forcing it on you when they claim to be an open and free platform for freedom of speech(fyi which is reddit claims to be).

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, I think the point of not posting in a thread you're moderating is to merely act as a moderator and not influence the thread or have the ability to upvote your own posts. Modding and posting is like both playing in a game AND acting as referee.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Uberbah]

"Offense is never given, it's only ever taken."

-Unknown

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."

Brigham Young

Any second grader can tell you that's painfully facile.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[DarkTempes]

You just used a lot of acronyms and I have no idea what any of them stand for.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a difference between the First Amendment and the legal principle of free speech, and the Moral principle of free speech that it embodies.
Reddit, like Mozilla, is not legally bound by the First Amendment to promote, or even tolerate, unapproved viewpoints.

However, the Moral principle of Free Speech is a bedrock of America, and anyone that calls themselves an American should understand and promote that freedom. Freedom to say what you want. That means without being threatened, sued, harassed, or abused. Without being suppressed and forced to shut up, without being shoved out of public places.

If you want the perfect example of a group that does NOT believe in the Moral principle of Free Speech, just look at the Gay Rights crowd.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[epyT-R]

It is, because the reality is that the commenter doesn't want to do any such thing, leaving it to be merely politically incorrect.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Uberbah]

The facts of the case painted the firm as pretty sexist

You misspelled allegations. It doesn't help Pao's case that she gave horrible reviews to other female employees of the firm.

"The bad reviews I received were horrible sexism, but the bad reviews I gave to other women were totally deserved! Totally!"

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

The notion of having a 'perfect plaintiff' is entirely well established in legal theory.

That's not what TwistedCubic was getting at. The error in SamoanBiscuit's posting was in assuming that it was hard to find such a perfect plaintiff due to illegitimacy, drug/alcohol addiction, and (implied) obesity. What he and you are missing is that social indicators for African Americans were better before the civil rights movement than after half a century of increasing government dependency and handouts. Programs intended to help African Americans were well-intentioned, but they actually have done a lot of harm.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Uberbah]

. I don't work for Yahoo or ever have, but I'm a fan of Marissa Mayer. Silicon Valley needs more women like Marissa, and less like Ellen.

Mayer ended work-from-home for Yahoo employees at the same time she built a private day care for her own kids next to her office. She also got all pissy when a man complimented her looks, then did a "come fuck me spread" for Vogue. She might not be a dooshcannon like Pao, but she's at least a dooshpistol.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I went after the guy who stuck his hands where they did not belong.

The cookie jar? I really hope someone got that asshole that took the last cookie.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[UnknownSoldier]

First, define "hate speech", and "offensive speech"

How many people are needed before something is considered "hate / offensive?"

Can the truth be considered hate / offensive ?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[penguinoid]

News flash: Republicans get made fun of everywhere.

So do clowns.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

" clamping down on offensive speech." -- it's funny because that's something she would not admit doing, and yes, she didn't do that by any means, she clamped down on harassment and threats, or at least tried a bit, there's plenty of offensive speech going around reddit and nothing was planned to be done about that, which in my opinion is very good. I like freedom of expression, people are free to downvote and ignore subreddits they don't like.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's just cowardly. And lazy. You want her raped to death? Go and do it yourself.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[trptrp]

What exactly did Mayer do succesfully in leading Yahoo? I'm just curious since I don't use any of their services and haven't heard of them lately.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

If clowns were unpopular george bush would never have been elected. twice.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Offense is never given, it's only ever taken." - Unknown

"Then you're not trying hard enough to offend people you worthless fucking bum-felching slacker." - Internet Troll

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can either have your offensive people contained in a few specific spots easy to avoid.

Or you can attempt to remove those few spots and have them EVERYWHERE.

But they're not going to stop being offensive.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Better call dr jack kevorkian.

Because now you can ban a flag over how people feel...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Khyber]

Then you probably don't visit Reddit, which is a good thing.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good points, and I don't know if anyone has said this, but fuck Ellen Pao.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

While I also think free speech is important I can't directly think of a good historic example here.
Could you enlighten me to what event in the past you thought of where you decided to use those quotes together?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. She has taken the voice from progressives. That site is so hateful and racist now. /r/coontown proves just how much of a racist Pao is. She hates non-whites. Hates us. As she has said many times before, she wants us to die. To die. That is the way of her Republican kind.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

All speech is free, not just the speech you happen to agree with. It doesn't matter if it's "hate" speech, or "love" speech, or whatever adjective ... it's speech.

It's sad to me that the concept of freedom of speech today is as radical, or even more so, than it was in 1776. It's even more sad that the left in this country has descended into tyranny just like the right, albeit a different form.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't associate these douchebag assholes with the political left. They have taken over the Democratic Party the way the religious right took over the Republican Party. They are populists, not leftists and Clinton started the takeover just like Reagan initiated the takeover of the Republican Party. No person who identifies as a leftist (as defined by actual political science definitions) supports regulating people's speech.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I read that whole link and I didn't find any "facts of the case". I found some allegations by Ellen Pao and then a bunch of "studies" that determined if men expect women to perform equally to men they're sexist pigs, and if they hold women to a different standard they're also sexist pigs. I guess the only way not to be a sexist pig is to publicly apologize for being born male.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[DNS-and-BIND]

You just drop that out there without mentioning that Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife is going to be the Democratic presidential candidate in 2016? As soon as she crushes Bernie Sanders, of course. You just throw that out with no context? WTF?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Mashiki]

FPH = Fatpeople hate
HAES = Healthy at every size
FA = Fat acceptance

In other words, Chairman Pao instituted something for political points and SJW's to feel good about, and didn't actually ban subreddits that actually engage in abusive, hateful, doxing, or threatening behavior. And subs like SRS/SRD/and their ilk do engage in it, but since many of the admins suddenly become mods of SRS/SRD when they quit, and they have a favored relationship with the admin, it wasn't in Pao or the admins interest to shut down those subs.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[cyber-vandal]

Thank you. Please accept a virtual handshake from another pissed off leftist who hates SJWs too.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

Yes... the BEES do that. Not the frame that holds the hive.

If redditers want to brigade and shame other subreddits that is fine. That's organic. That's free speech.

if you start censoring people... you will split the community... there are many competitors to Reddit just BEGGING for the management of reddit to piss the members off a bit more. Their competitors are waiting. They want nothing more than for Reddit to do it. They're touching themselves with anticipation.

So disagree... Do it. Do it good and hard and don't stop.

Think of the idiots that would like to ban porn links from Google. Seem like a good idea? For the children? What about removing hate speech links from google? I mean, you can find neo nazis or jihadi terrorists on google.

Should google censor their search results?

Of course not. Because there at least you understand that if google did that they'd be less valiable as a search engine. Same thing with reddit. You want to contain as many communities as possible under the same roof. You start kicking out the undesirables and its like filtering the porn links out of google. If google does that and Bing doesn't... what happens? Bing becomes a superior search engine because it isn't censored. And then suddenly what is everyone going to use? Not google.

Google understands this. If reddit doesn't... then they're going to drive the bees out of the hive... and then no more honey.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you must not be very well informed.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[samoanbiscuit]

Your complete ignorance of history, especially the history of white supremacy, is laughable. Black people weren't allowed to use the same seats, toilets, pools and rooms as black people. Does that strike you as a time when white people had a positive view of black people?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[samoanbiscuit]

Sorry about that, I'd edit my comment, but slashdot doesn't have that feature.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[samoanbiscuit]

Agreed, she had a lot of contacts within the civil rights movement, both political and ecclesiastical. What's also true is that she was a light skinned, chaste (at least apparently so) sober, respectable middle class black woman. Has she been the same person, but darker skinned, poorer, or with an illegitimate child or other non-ideal domestic situation, she might not have been able to make the impact she did.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[sound vision]

Ever heard of the Clintons? Better yet, the Kennedys?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[St.Creed]

Pretty much every CEO I'm aware of has driven their company into the ground. Otherwise you probably wouldn't be aware of them.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[St.Creed]

Your complete ignorance of history, especially the history of white supremacy, is laughable. Black people weren't allowed to use the same seats, toilets, pools and rooms as black people. Does that strike you as a time when white people had a positive view of black people?

You and GP are debating different things. The social indicators for black people can be better than today *especially* in a situation of heavy discrimination. South Africa is a case in point: a colleague of mine was educated in South Africa by fantastic teachers, as a coloured /not entirely black kid from a middle class background. The biggest reason was that the smart folks did not get the chance for any of the really good jobs, or starting a company. So a whole lot of them became good teachers. Nowadays, most of the smarter people have real opportunities and the schools are left with whoever wants to get a low-paying job with no real qualifications or oversight.

Of course, another reason for the current situation is the high income disparity in the USA, that ensured that the minority that eventually did get opportunities would reap big rewards while the rest would have trouble to make ends meet every month. Nearly the same thing as we can see happening in South Africa nowadays, except it's going much faster there.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your complete ignorance of history, especially the history of white supremacy, is laughable. Black people weren't allowed to use the same seats, toilets, pools and rooms as black people.

Derp. Well thanks for clearing that up for us.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[plasm4]

No he doesn't.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[plasm4]

I've always felt the /. community encourages politically incorrect speech. There is a difference between not being politically correct and trolling or flame baiting.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Versus the leftist ideal of allowing the most incompetent but most popular at controlling by force others.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Goaway]

She did a pretty shit job of that, didn't she? Reddit is pretty much exactly as full of vile, disgusting shit as it always was.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

So why the heck don't they ban SRD and SRS? Those are almost literally devoted to harassment of various kinds and it's not like nobody knows they exist.

They keep banning subs nobody has ever heard of and quietly ignoring the big ones that everyone who has ever visited Reddit more than once knows. What are we supposed to think when they do that?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Goaway]

Except it doesn't. That's 100% a lie.

What it does include is mobbing up to bully people into killing themselves.

Or do you also think that is also totally important protected free speech?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[AmiMoJo]

You have the backwards. Conservatism is driven by emotion. What's mine is mine, resistance to change, thinking you are an island independent of your neighbours. Socialism is the realization that we are better off working together and living in a fair society. It's the evolution from "might makes right" to a more enlightened political philosophy.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[sumdumass]

Yup..

And they didn't wait for anything to happen to the right person. They created the incident in order to have a complete record along with witnesses. She was sent to create the issues that were common to other blacks which is why her name is associated with it.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Jiro]

It's called a "hatchetman" and is an old trick for business administration. Googling the term produced a lot of dictionary definitions, but not much in the way of in-depth articles. But now that you know what it's called, you can look it up.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I read the wikipedia page, and maybe I'm just drunk but I still do not understand what it means to be pro-gamergate vs anti-gamergate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

>

Can the truth be considered hate / offensive ?

It often is...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

What you've linked are not "the facts of the case". It's Pao's allegations: "Pao’s attorney has argued..." "The Kleiner Perkins described by Pao..." "to quote Pao’s testimony.... " "When we discuss the allegations in Ellen Pao’s lawsuit... "
Please stop repeating her slanderous lies.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[drfred79]

Ellen Pao was a venture capitalist, until she underperformed, per jury trial. Who thinks she embroiled Reddit in fixed wages controversy because of Kapital > Labor reasons or because of her lawsuit/feminism?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[drfred79]

Thanks Anon!

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[drfred79]

If you go to the store and purchase something, logically that is your property.

The main argument you're trying to suggest is that Republicans emotionally cling to their own property. I think that's inherent in sociology. Countries that have attempted to distort that inherent human interest have created less efficient humans (they'd rather not measure the decline in labor but China has dropped it's communal property strategies).

People get emotional when logic isn't available to support their opinion. It's all about the efficient use of labor. We can have six people who work for the Federal government watch one person who makes a billion. Imagine if those six people don't have Federal jobs and decide to innovate and hire others? Suddenly our economy starts to improve.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[drfred79]

Socialism inherently institutes totalitarianism because what if brother comrade X chooses to either not work or not work well. Capitalism innovated society by relying on laws that apply to everyone to dictate the rules for negotiating commerce. If I live under a socialist society and I decide I'm better off feeding off society what's my incentive to work other than coercion? Under capitalism I can just assume I'll eat less. Socialism brings out the worst in humans, which is the inherent urge to enslave others.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Eunuchswear]

If you go to the store and purchase something, logically that is your property.

What planet are you living on?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Eunuchswear]

There is no such thing as hate speech. Doesn't exist. Not a legal concept in the United States.

And everybody knows that lawyers get to define reality.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[MechaStreisand]

You just described what SRS attempts to do.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Cederic]

What the fuck are SRD and SRS? People keep referencing them but to a non-Reddit user you might as well be mentioning ZZX or POSKDF or fucking anything.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the parent was referring to why Claudette Colvin, a pregnant 16 year-old, wasn't the poster-child of the movement even though she refused to move from her seat around nine months before Parks.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[AmiMoJo]

I'm saying that conservatives stand for low taxation and spending your own money as you see fit. More developed political philosophies recognise that often money is better used when pooled, and more over that charity alone doesn't work but social spending by government does and benefits everyone. It multiplies the effectiveness of the spending.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[argStyopa]

100% bullshit.
The very idea that others have to tiptoe around your personal sensitivities is anathema to the very concept of free speech (and, frankly, being an adult).
In particular, the idea that certain groups can assert that other groups are entitled to social protection because of some historical or perceived grievance is not only particularist (and in that sense astonishingly narcissistic) but patronizing as well.
It's really nothing more than oversensitivity, displaced so one doesn't even have to take ownership: "it's not that I'm being hypersensitive, because I'm feeling this way on BEHALF of that person over there."
A very later-20th-century form of nonsense.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[AmiMoJo]

Step back and listen to yourself for a moment. It's a conspiracy theory. Speculation about motives and trying to make facts fit your narrative. The attempt to justify the FatPeopleHate board is just laughable. It's nothing to do with the potential audience being fat, it's about abuse.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

You can't censor people on the internet.

Yes, but you can "censor" people on your corner of it. The FPH people can go and set up www.fatepeoplehate-this-domain-name-isnt-used-yet.com and spew uncensored fat people hate to their heart's content.

I don't see why you feel Reddit is obligated to fund their activities by giving them a platform for free.

I'm a member of some other communities online and off. They're completely non corporate and never will be corporate. And yet people incompatible with the organisation are are shown the door.

Fuck with the bees and you get no honey.

You are assuming that the assholes are the honey makers. In many places assholes drive out the non assholes leaving assholes behind.

And that's the thing really. No community is open to everyone. You have a choice, do you let the assholes decide who stays or do you let the people running it choose who stays?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

Fairly ovbious troll, 2/10, I'd say.

You very well have a right to free speech, but so do Reddit and they have a right to tell you where to go and not use their free services. Your right to impose your free speech on them has never been enshrined in law.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Socialism. They keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means. So they try to make it mean 'anything that gives visibility to the flaws in what I believe in'. Ultimate straw man argument, but that is their specialty.

Right wing capitalists are incapable of seeing any flaws in their system of stealing from the poor to give to the rich. They say it leads to efficient allocation of resources. They fail to mention that few people get to decide what constitutes 'efficient' (hint: It never benefits you).

It's a religion, in that it relies on belief without fact since rightist economic policies have always ended in disaster (and quite often large wars) everywhere and every time they're tried.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Ol Olsoc]

News flash: Republicans get made fun of everywhere.

So do clowns.

Same thing.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think political correctness (or incorrectness) is a real thing, you might need to pull your head out of the Republican party's ass.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Ol Olsoc]

First she sues her former employer, and loses on all counts. Minor (perhaps) correction

First, she has a sexual relationship with one of her firm's partners.

Right then and there, she ended up making a mess of her veracity.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I would think that paedophilia is pretty offensive and not just politically incorrect.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm saying that conservatives stand for low taxation and spending your own money as you see fit.

Well, conservatives say they're for low taxation, but when they're in power they tax as much as their opponents. I have the choice of voting for someone who says they want to tax my money away and does so, or someone who says they don't want to tax my money away, but goes ahead and does. Thief or hypocrite?

More developed political philosophies recognise that often money is better used when pooled, and more over that charity alone doesn't work but social spending by government does and benefits everyone. It multiplies the effectiveness of the spending.

That's great in theory. In practise someone gets put in charge of deciding when money is better pooled, and, strangely, that always coincides with whatever benefits the decider most.

~Loyal

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are going to "educate" people for something you arbitrarily deem inappropriate?

Who the fuck do you think you are?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[paul_metcalfe]

What the hell, reddit?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ironically, by deciding to swoop in and play hero, I'm sure they did just as much to offend people as anyone else.

Problem is, there are implicit value judgements in their explicit choices of where to intervene and where not to intervene. To say "we value free speech so speech we disagree with is banned" is one thing, striving towards an ideal despite the non-ideal world we live in. To say "we are against harassment" then cherry picking very specific instances of harassment is to imply that some harassment isn't as important as others.

I left because it feels like they're cultivating a dangerous culture where sometimes it's OK to take a virtual discussion into the real world, involving police, or your real-world community, or your employer.

Words on a computer screen are accepted as justification for terrorism. That's not what online discussion ought to be about.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Bartles]

Are you actually saying that people don't pool their money under capitalism? The difference is that under capitalism it is voluntary and the opportunities for graft are fewer.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Bartles]

Bingo.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[LDAPMAN]

"but social spending by government does and benefits everyone"... You actually believe that? See, thats the part conservatives don't believe. We don't believe that the wisdom, or effectiveness, of the collective is better.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Your complete ignorance of history, especially the history of white supremacy, is laughable. Black people weren't allowed to use the same seats, toilets, pools and rooms as black people.

No, you simply are not listening to what I'm saying.

You are absolutely correct that African Americans faced horrible discrimination and were still dealing with a legacy of slavery of only half a century earlier.

Despite the horrible discrimination African Americans faced then, social indicators like drug addiction, illegitimacy, unemployment rates, wage gap, were a lot better than after another half century of government dependency and handouts.

The civil rights movement demanded the end of government-mandated discrimination, and it ended. That was a necessary and good thing. But then it went on to demand government aid and compensation, and well-intentioned as those programs were, they have turned out to cause enormous harm.

You also need to realize that racist policies like eugenics, segregation, and forced sterilizations were policies advocated by progressives, as the application of science to improving society. These are the same progressives that then adopted new policies after the civil rights movement to discriminate based on race in different ways.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pro-gamergate: Games journalism and the gaming industry have become too cosy, we need more ethics.
Anti-gamergate: Women are treated badly in the gaming community, we need more ethics.
Dumbasses on both sides: my ethics are the only true ethics, your ethics are concern trolling.

Add a whole lot of personal drama, bad columns, people ignorant of their own ignorance entering the discussion on either side, you know, basic human interaction, and you've got the mess that is GamerGate.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

You and GP are debating different things. The social indicators for black people can be better than today *especially* in a situation of heavy discrimination.

Ending government-mandated discrimination is the right and necessary thing to do. If the civil rights movement had stopped with that, it would have been good.

But what it did instead was to attempt to help African Americans through the creation of large government programs. And what I am pointing out is that those programs didn't work: even with massive government-mandated segregation and discrimination, African Americans were doing better than after half a century of these government programs.

Both the programs to (1) end government-mandated discrimination and the programs to (2) help African Americans through government programs were well intentioned, but only (1) was effective; (2) was harmful.

South Africa is a case in point: a colleague of mine was educated in South Africa by fantastic teachers

South Africa is a completely different situation: it ended government mandated discrimination, but it did not treat blacks as a minority in need of special help, for the simple reason that blacks weren't a minority. It also took a different view of racism and responsibility, with the Truth and Reconciliation commission: people said "these were horrific racist crimes, but we are just going to draw a line under it and start fresh".

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Like you fucking fat colored nigger?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Mashiki]

You sound like a fucking cultist.

Gee, that didn't take long. SWJism 101: Use ad-homs.

I'll be happy to continue shining the light on your ilk. Maybe you can join the Times, Polygon, The Guardian and The Mary Sue in their latest faux "male gamers demand less sexy females" study. I hear that making up research is trendy these days.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you go to the store and purchase something, logically that is your property.

Unless it's a CD, DVD, ebook or software. In which case, at best only the containing media is your property. True, you can transfer the CD or DVD, but resale of software is difficult and resale of ebooks is virtually impossible.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you actually saying that people don't pool their money under capitalism? The difference is that under capitalism it is voluntary and the opportunities for graft are fewer.

And they only volunteer when they see a potential for personal profit.

A lot of things aren't personally profitable but are profitable in the aggregate. For example, rural electricity and telephone services were often government-sponsored because while a bunch of farmers pooling their cash couldn't necessarily afford such things, the people who buy their meat and produce profit indirectly because of it. Failing to account for the outlying costs and benefits is one of the most common failings of capitalism. If a bean-counter cannot count it, it doesn't exist.

Although I will likely never travel most of the US Interstate Highway System, it's there if I need it and likewise to the tourists who come in and travel my own local stretches of that system. Not forgetting that one of the biggest reasons the whole thing was originally federally-mandated (by a Republican) was to provide high-speed transport for US military assets.

Which, speaking, of - most of us cannot afford to employ our own private armies, police forces, or fire departments. Again, this isn't something capitalism steps up to the plate for. It's true that there are communities of the 1-percenters who do employ private police departments around here, but even they fall back on the government-supplied city and county law enforcement infrastructyre.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly did Mayer do succesfully in leading Yahoo? I'm just curious since I don't use any of their services and haven't heard of them lately.

Marissa Mayer is a yahoo.

I'd rather search Bing than Yahoo these days.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Bing Tsher E]

Can the word cuckold be applied to a woman who knows her husband is carrying on affairs with other women but does nothing about it? Or is that strictly a term for a man in that situation?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

First lets agree that the term "Welfare Queen" is fiction, in reality none exist. It's just a term coined by the rich and powerful to refocus blame of gross inequality on the poor.

Now without these programs like Welfare and foodstamps these people would starve or turn to petty crime such as mugging you to survive.

Or do you actually believe without these programs everyone would "pull their own weight"?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither would Regan, twice

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[slashdice]

Or the Roosevelts. Or the Adams.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Bing Tsher E]

Cultists often compile lists of entities, organizations, and media outlets that are 'out to get them.'

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[antdude]

What about ants and their colonies? Frak those bees, termites, wasps, humans, etc. :P

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Speech is speech is speech and it is protected. One mans hate speech is another mans comedy act. You imply speech should be silenced. It should not be.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cultists often compile lists of entities, organizations, and media outlets that are 'out to get them.'

They also tend to talk in code and display a chilling degree of paranoia about mainstream culture and social mores as "being out to get them".

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn the difference between lower-case progressive and the Progressive era.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[freeze128]

"The results are in. You are a horrible person. That's what it says, right here. A horrible person. We weren't even testing for that."

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

The bees can protect themselves. If you have reddit policing the community to any great extent you're going to get an exodus. There are several competing social networks that are already primed and waiting for it.

If Reddit fucks with the boards much more, the community could split... and like two stars that pass too near each other... it doesn't take much for one to suck the other dry.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, she did it because of public pressure. Decent people in the real world can't get away with taking shit about fat people. So this part of the site was under a lot of pressure.

No she should have gone farther in banning all of the hatful subreds that angry loners are drawn toward, but I'll take it.

FPH is pathetic an appalling, and good riddance. Get a fucking life.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

That fine... you're telling me the gun isn't loaded. Fine. Reddit can just put the gun in its mouth and pull the trigger.

If you're right then it will just go click.

If I'm right, then reddit will create a pattern behind the wall that will look remarkably similar to someone putting a lasagna into a food processor and failing to put the lid on.

Its not a question of obligations to fund. Its a question of "is reddit the front page of the internet"...

Well... it could be that if you didn't censor it.

Think of Google... you can find the sites for neo nazis and jihadis and anything else on it.

Why doesn't google censor out hate sites?

Grasp that it is the same thing. You're going to say "but google doesn't actually host those sites"... this is the dumb argument that torrent sites make when told they're abetting piracy. They say "the files aren't actually on my torrent site"... no... just the means to find them. It doesn't matter.

Google absolutely abets the people that make and distribute hate speech by keeping links to hate speech on their search engine. They also abet the distribution of pornography and anything else you can find on google.

Why do they do it? Because if they don't, then someone else will.

You think fat people hate is going to their own domain where they'll pay real money? No. They'll go to some other free board that is willing to take them.

And that board and boards like them will become magnets for that kind of thing. And when reddit ultimately goes to banning less controversial speech like... something that is arbitrarily politically incorrect all of a sudden but not harassing anyone... you're going to have an exodus.

Reddit has not crossed the threshold yet. But they are fucking playing with the button. They press it... they're going to Jackson Pollock their fucking site's future.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[AmiMoJo]

Look at the countries with the highest quality of life in the world. All of them are socialist by US standards. Western/northern European countries, Japan, Australia... The US has some areas with a very high standard of living, but also many with a very low standard.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are a stalker and it's not okay.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[AmiMoJo]

The problem is that under capitalism people pool their money to benefit themselves in the immediate sense, rather than to make more general improvements to society that have less obvious (but still very real) benefits. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[LDAPMAN]

And if you look at the countries with the worst quality of life, most of them a socialist. Your premise is flawed.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

>No person who identifies as a leftist (as defined by actual political science definitions) supports regulating people's speech.

Okay, so who's regulating speech? You're still allowed to be a hateful prick. We make you shut up with social pressure, not laws.

If you're saying that banning FPH is regulating speech, you're wrong. No one must give you a platform to attack people. Reddit took that one away, because they don't want to be associated with those assholes.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[BrockWinthrup]

No it was pretty much hate speech.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You have the backwards. Conservatism is driven by emotion. What's mine is mine, resistance to change, thinking you are an island independent of your neighbours. Socialism is the realization that we are better off working together and living in a fair society. It's the evolution from "might makes right" to a more enlightened political philosophy.

Thanks for the clarification. I always thought most lefties were STEMless creature driven by emotion - the children are dying! - and the righties were saying but I've done the sums and there isn't enough money. The left then chimes in well spend it anyway.

But hey - given that you've probably lived all of 20 something years you would know these things. So where is socialism actually working well. And don't say Europe 'cos I've just come back from there and it sure isn't working there. Especially given that they have outsourced their protection to the US and spend almost nothing on protection. And don't say China 'cos that is less socialist than the US.

But hey with your pubertal knowledge you must know where it is doing well.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Bartles]

I guess that's why Greece is kicking our ass economically.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Greece is faltering because even though they were supposed to collect taxes, and build their economy on those supposed taxes, they failed to actually collect them. Having to borrow and borrow and borrow in order to keep their books balanced.
Greece has two economies, one under the table, where the rich get away with not paying taxes. And one above the table, that tries to be a modern economy but is missing out on the taxes to make that actually work.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[AmiMoJo]

You are confusing dictatorships for socialism. An important part of socialism is democracy.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe it is time to distinguish between the social democracies of western and northern Europe, and socialist dictatorships like the ones you are reverting too.

The European states are actually a mix of capitalism, socialism and democracy.

I personally think where it goes wrong is where you go into an extreme of one of those.

Europe is struggling to maintain its socialism, because on the short term it is expensive yes, and the current economic environment asks for cut backs. Cutting it back in economic hard times is hurting your middle-class the most, the ones you need to find your welfare state.

The U.S. Is a capitalist democracy, and is struggling to maintain its democratic nature, a two party system, that both increase the gap between poor and rich... Who should the poor man vote for to increase his chances? Who should he vote for to get his children into better education?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's mix in social democracies, and stop staring at the two extremes, the socialist state you describe is called communism, and is totalitarian in nature. Hardly any still exist.

Extreme capitalism is what you see in Africa a lot, money can buy you anything, and nobody will stop you if you get yourself elected and start exporting all natural resources, for personal profit.

Both are bad, we should find balanced.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

something able to withstand enormous amounts of exterior and interior trauma and worshipped by 50% of the population?

I'm confused. Are you talking about penis, vagina, or the sun?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Protection from what, the terrorists that want their oil back? Or the Russians who are one of their biggest trading partners, but feel threatened by NATO!

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[baristabrian]

Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum. Glad to know that *some* of the bright, educated and articulate people who post here actually *do* get it. Just saying. The rest? I wish they'd either all go to Reddit or, alternatively, gosh, I don't know, the "Rush Limbaugh" equivalent of Reddit. You know, "echo chamber" for the Conservative dolts. I tried a few times finding *anything* to like about Reddit, even posting a few times there. But, it was obvious that *my* attitude ["Teeedle Dee vs Tweedle Dum"] was *not* welcome there. Too may hyper-sensitive insecure twats---on the Left. Again, just saying: some people simply do *not* get it.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Vastad]

The female equivalent term is cuckquean.

Surprisingly not a recent term invented by internet porn, it comes from 15th century Middle English.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

In a perfect world, perhaps. But if you don't take into account human nature you are doomed to fail.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Any Web Loco]

the basic American principle of dying for the right of the offensive to be offensive

Voltaire was saying this before the US even existed.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[cyber-vandal]

Where in Europe? It's a very large continent with dozens of countries with the largest economies after the US and China.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[x0ra]

To the contrary, I do believe that communism is, ethically wise, the most perfect system, however, when accounting for human nature, capitalism is the less worst. I'd love to live in a free energy infinite resource star-trek utopia, where nobody has to work. However, even such system is imperfect, as certain things humans need are not quantifiable by materialism, and it's certainly far from a free (as in "libre") world.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[x0ra]

And who decide about "general improvements to society" ? Who decide about resource affectation ? Most of the time, it's unelected officials. There was a poll in BC about increasing tax to fund for public transportation but it failed, because the current sentiment that the current [monopolistic] company handling public transportation sucks. That's the problem with publicly funded project, most of the time, they have a very low value efficiency.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[x0ra]

But democracy doesn't scale. It might works for a city the size of ancient Athens (ie. about 60k citizens), but it is deemed to fails for a a 300 millions inhabitants country.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[x0ra]

That's a problem of regulatory capture of the copyright regulations by the entertainment industry.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[x0ra]

No, they crashed because they borrowed to buy seconds hands and newly manufactured military equipment to the west.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[goose-incarnated]

And yet people incompatible with the organisation are are shown the door.

You are unusually accurate. This is exactlywhy Ellen has been shown the door. Shutting down other other opinions merely by whining about how hurt your feels are turned out to be incompatible with reddit.

In reality, the world seriously does not care how hurt you claim your feels are.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cultists often compile lists of entities, organizations, and media outlets that are 'out to get them.'

Some examples from these types of lists include:

• Heterosexual White Males
• The Patriarchy

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[baristabrian]

I agree! Everybody knows that what is "yours" really is *not* yours! Just ask any self-worshipping, uh, I mean, self-respecting Democrat, uh, I mean, redistributionist, uh, no ... SOCIALIST!

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[baristabrian]

You forgot to mention Greece. Oh, wait, never mind.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[J4]

"I'm a jackass"

FTFY

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ellen made all the hard changes, like clamping down on offensive speech.

How come /r/coontown is still allowed on the site?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[chasm22]

WTF are you babbling?

Try this on for size. We have five or six Walton kids inherit 15 billion dollars apiece. I pick the babies of five or six federal employees and treat them to 15 billion dollars apiece and see what the benefits of that type of immense wealth has on their lives. I bet they equal or exceed the Walton kids by any measurement.

The fallacy of the rich being the best and the brightest is just another example of the success of their propaganda machine.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

If âoeeverybody knowsâ such-and-such, then it ainâ(TM)t so, by at least ten thousand to one. - Lazarus Long

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[faway]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Also sounds quite plausible.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[faway]

Both elections were rigged. Do a web search for: Greg Palast Florida 2000

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

You are unusually accurate.

I usually am. I'm also exceptionally modest.

In reality, the world seriously does not care how hurt you claim your feels are.

I'm 99% sure now we've had this exact conversation before. I'm not sure why you believe I'm claiming that my "feels" [sic] have been hurt. You never enlightened me last time, so I don't hold out hope. You did, however repeat the claim ad-nauseum.

Regardless of my "feels" [sic], Reddit still have the right to choose to not extend their services to people who aren't some sort of protected group. Ergo, they are within their rights legally and morallty to shut down the FPH and etc sub reddits. They'd be legally and morally within their rights to choose not to shut them down too. They chose the former.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

If I'm right, then reddit will create a pattern behind the wall that will look remarkably similar to someone putting a lasagna into a food processor and failing to put the lid on.

Pedantically picking on your analogy, have you used a food processor? They don't tend to eject stuff out the top. At least neither of mine do. The blades spin round in the bottom and at worst swirl stuff up the sides if it's suitably liquid. If your food processor is a splatter machine you may wish to purchase a new one.

Its not a question of obligations to fund. Its a question of "is reddit the front page of the internet"...

And...? Apart from being pure puffery, front pages don't usually contain the entire contents within them. So sure they can be the front page without having absolutely everything in the internet there too.

Why doesn't google censor out hate sites?

Are you honestly asking me to explain the difference between indexing and hosting to you? And correct me if I'm wrong, but Google's "blogger" platform does in fact censor certain topics. "Adult" content for one.

Grasp that it is the same thing.

Firstly, No it really isn't. Secondly so what? Google and Reddit are run by different people. They are entirely free to run their services differently if they see fit.

Why do they do it? Because if they don't, then someone else will.

Uh... what? No I'm pretty sure they do it because they thing there's money in it, not that someone else will do it. I'm sure there are plenty of non profitable things that someone else could do that they're not doing.

Besides a hosting platform and a search engine are very, very different despite your claims to the contrary. Compared to the amount hosted by reddit, the amount indexed by google is truly vast. Manually going through it and cutting things out is simply not feasible.

You think fat people hate is going to their own domain where they'll pay real money? No. They'll go to some other free board that is willing to take them.

I don't really care. It doesn't make any difference either. They're there, and they can have a nice little hate filled blog on which to spew their hateful things as is their right. Reddit has shown them the door as is their right.

People are exercising rights they have and have good reasons for having. I don't have a problem with this.

And that board and boards like them will become magnets for that kind of thing. And when reddit ultimately goes to banning less controversial speech like... something that is arbitrarily politically incorrect all of a sudden but not harassing anyone... you're going to have an exodus.

So? If your fantasy comes to pass then so what? Not wanting to provide resources to something you find morally repugnant is entirely within their rights. If they can't survive not doing it, well, I'd rather close up shop than survive only by doing things I found detestable.

Again there is literally nothing wrong here. Everything is working as it should.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty weak list

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn the difference between lower-case progressive and the Progressive era.

Oh, I know the differences. But it sounds like you need to learn about the continuity and relations between lower-case progressives and the Progressive era.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why you're wrong - nobody "has" to tiptoe around anyone's personal sensitivities. Such a prohibition would, indeed, not be "free" speech. But you're wrong in a number of ways. First, being able to say whatever you like doesn't mean other people will like it or have to tolerate it or can't pitch you out of a private home or business because of it. It doesn't mean an online forum needs to tolerate it, or even discuss with you why they don't like it. Second, "free speech" in the US only means what the gov't can't regulate. It doesn't mean any non-governmetnal entity (such as other people) need to tolerate it.
In fact, it doesn't really mean that much at all, what with ag-gag laws and the like.
Almost all of this "free speech" talk is merely jerks wanting to be jerks in public to make other jerks go hoo-ah.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'm not sure anyone can censor anyone off of the Internet entirely, but they can sure as hell censor someone on the internet, as in kicking them off a particular site.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is only "informative" if you think of the information here as facts. There are no facts here, only hearsay. None of what Ellen claims could actually be substantiated enough to even create reasonable doubt.

So all I'm getting out of your statement is that you're a fucking idiot, and the people who upvoted you are also fucking idiots.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you have a point, or did you just want to showcase stupidity?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

As to your pedantic quibbles, they wouldn't have lids on the top sport if they didn't eject things with some force out of the top... would they?

I've used them... they absolutely do shoot shit everywhere. Use a cuisinart... that's the most popular brand... they are designed in fact to not even run without the top on them for safety reasons. That spinning blade. But if you press down the safety button so it thinks the top is on and press go with something in there... shit goes everywhere.

Because I'm sure you're going to disagree:
https://youtu.be/3DlIH97ywIQ?t...

You can see that shit bouncing off the top of the lid.

So there you go. You started out with a fucking annoying quibble... and you were fucking wrong.

Moving along.

As to puffery... its their actual value to their users. If they're not that then they're dog shit. So it isn't puffery.

As to indexing and hosting... I think I actually covered that issue in the previous post. You can read and respond to it or you're not having an interactive discussion. I anticipated your objection and responded to it before you even came up with a response. And you didn't even fucking read it.

As to moral repugnance... then don't run an open social network. I believe there are some evangelical social networks that are only for people of a given religion and ideology. So... you could set something up like that.

Sound like a winning strategy? That's your fucking idea and its as fucking stupid as your quibble about the food processor.

Don't even comment to me again. Just walk away. Your failure is so complete that you should be ashamed of yourself. And the fact that you're doubtless not ashamed of yourself speaks even more poorly of you. I think I'll leave you with this response because it simply amuses me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also:
SRS = Shit Reddit Says
SRD = Shit Reddit Does

SRS is a community highlighting negative things people say or post on Reddit, and discussing/berating the community for supporting it. In reality, it's a cesspool of negativity.
SRD is kinda a counterpoint to that, basically highlighting nice things that happen on Reddit. It's not as well known. I don't think RedK or Mashiki know what SRD is - it's essentially the opposite of SRS - an optimistic reversal of the phrase "do as I say, not as I do".

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

Humans are driven by emotion

FTFY

Socialism is the realization that we are better off working together and living in a fair society.

Indeed it is. Socialism is a utopian socioeconomic model and I would welcome it with open arms...as long as you can guarantee everyone will contribute to the best of their ability. Unfortunately you can't due in part to the first statement. Emotion drives people to act in irrational ways. The founding fathers of the U.S. knew this all too well. That's why they chose a Democratic Republic and not a true Democracy. It slightly delayed the inevitable condition we find ourselves in today where the majority of voters vote for what's in their best interest rather than what's best for the society as a whole. People who vote Republican tend to want mostly Christian value legislation and regulation that supports big business and people voting Democrat primarily want the government to provide as much support and governance as possible. What society needs is somewhere in the middle but the days of achieving consensus on that are long past.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Methadras]

Offensive speech is acceptable speech. You may not like it and that's fine and I don't either, but I accept the fact that people can and do use it and I'm not offended by it. You can play at faux gasping whenever you read or hear 'offensive' speech, but don't pretend that Ellen Pao was some king of positive social justice warrior for change at Reddit. She was thinking that she could use Reddit as a platform for her particular brand of dominance and could lift her leg and mark her territory all over it and she failed.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Methadras]

Utopia of any kind is a fools paradise. Enjoy it.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

100% bullshit.
The very idea that others have to tiptoe around your personal sensitivities is anathema to the very concept of free speech (and, frankly, being an adult).
In particular, the idea that certain groups can assert that other groups are entitled to social protection because of some historical or perceived grievance is not only particularist (and in that sense astonishingly narcissistic) but patronizing as well.
It's really nothing more than oversensitivity, displaced so one doesn't even have to take ownership: "it's not that I'm being hypersensitive, because I'm feeling this way on BEHALF of that person over there."
A very later-20th-century form of nonsense.

Grow up, son. Being an adult means you don't have to "tiptoe" around "personal sensitivities", because you're simply better than that and it is easy to do. It's like a drunk slob complaining about having to "tiptoe" around sleeping people at 4am.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Timex]

Republican presidential candidates: George Bush, George W. Bush, and now likely Jeb Bush.

Nope, no nepotism here, I am sure that they were each the best man for the job out of a population of 200+ million.

Ummm... Not sure you're using 'nepotism' correctly there. <shrug>

I wouldn't vote for Jeb anyway. I'm still trying to figure out what barrel of monkeys got released that made it possible for him to lead in many of the recent polls.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

As to your pedantic quibbles, they wouldn't have lids on the top sport if they didn't eject things with some force out of the top... would they?

My stick blender has no lid by reason if it being a stick blender. It has a food processor attachment which does have a lid, but that lid contains the gearbox which drives the slower speed blades. The lid isn't dishwashable but that's OK because it's almost completely clean when I'm done.

But seriously dude, if your food processor is creating enough ejecta to make it look like someone's been shot, something's wrong.

So there you go. You started out with a fucking annoying quibble... and you were fucking wrong.

I've got a bosch. It doesn't do that. So I'm also right. So there :P

I'm also guessing that video is of solid stuff, not something semiliquid like lasagne. Which is the blended substance you were in fact referring to were you not?

As to puffery... its their actual value to their users. If they're not that then they're dog shit. So it isn't puffery.

They're claiming they're the front page to the internet. Not "our users go here first". It's a bombastic claim which is nice and catchy from their marketing department. No more no less.

And you didn't even fucking read it.

Oh the irony. I read it, I rebutted it and you ignored my rebuttal while claiming I didn't read it. That's so nuts I'm not even sure what logical fallacy it is. Is "ignoring reality" one?

As to moral repugnance... then don't run an open social network.

I don't. Neither apparently do reddit. Which is entirely their right, both legally and morally.

As far as I can tell your entire argument is that
1. Reddit will die if it's not home to assholes.
2. Therefore they should play host to assholes because staying up is more impoprtant than having a backbone.

I disagee on both points.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

As to quibbles, I just showed you a fucking link that skips right to a bit where you can see material in the food processor slamming off the top of the lid.

We're done. You're a fucking space cadet. I'm not reading anything further in your post until you concede that my point on the food processor was legit and your point was in fucking error.

You couldn't even admit you were wrong about the food processor... when I showed you a video of it happening. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Mashiki]

Cultists often compile lists of entities, organizations, and media outlets that are 'out to get them.'

Well SJW's sure do fit the bill. We've got: Men, white men, white people, the patriarchy, anyone who wanders off the plantation, the media in general. They also engage in personal attacks, use threats and intimidation against people who are inside the clique to make sure that they remain so.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Shirley Marquez]

Name recognition, and the fact that the other Republican candidates are even worse.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[JeffAtl]

Just so you know, SJWs don't vote republican.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

U read bro?

If you did you'd see I didn't deny that food processors di that, I said if yours does you should get a better one. My Bosch doesn't do that.

But I like how you've used your impotent rage as an excuse to pretend that I didn't also destroy your other arguments.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm praying for a right-wing populist candidate.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

... do I read? Not only do I read, but I also remember what I've personally written for quite some time... unlike you apparently:
"Pedantically picking on your analogy, have you used a food processor? They don't tend to eject stuff out the top."

You ask if I have used one before.

You say they don't eject stuff out the top... with the top off? I showed you a video with crap slapping off the top of the lid. They do.

Either admit your error. I have cited you and shown evidence. Or I'm not going to go any farther in this discussion with you.

If you want to have this discussion but your ego won't allow you to admit the obvious error you made. Then just appologize for saying anything about the food processor and ask me let that issue go.

I will take that as you concession but you can take that anyway you want. Then perhaps we go forward on the understanding that I don't want to hear about your idiotic quibble ever a-fucking-gain.

Where is my hostility and irritation coming from? You're looking like a degenerate liar to me at this point. That's the root of my irritation with you at this point. That's just my perception.

And I really can't credit you with a meaningful voice in a discussion when you open with what appears to be a stupid error, I correct it, and then you refuse to acknowledge it.

I'm not going to advance the discussion on that basis.

So choose. You're in the irredeemable wrong on this issue. Concede the point and I will mechanically move beyond this... I am profoundly logical. If you concede a point. I will take it and move on. If you refuse to concede a lost point then its like refusing to accept I killed a chess piece.

We can't keep playing if you do that. I took that piece. It's mine. Take it off the board and we'll keep playing.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[dreamchaser]

Point out where I said she was not horrible. I critiqued the comparison. You seem to lack fundamental reading comprehension skills.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Goaway]

That would also fall under the category of "100% lie".

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

You appear to be a deeply dishonest person you quote that:

You say they don't eject stuff out the top...

then completely disregard the following sentance:

At least neither of mine do.

See the bit where I was comparing your food processor to mine that was there all along?

Where is my hostility and irritation coming from? You're looking like a degenerate liar to me at this point. That's the root of my irritation with you at this point. That's just my perception.

Indeed it is just your perception. You might find it illuminating to carefully reread my original post, though not colored through a red mist of rage. Perhaps you should have a glass of fine scotch, or do some yoga first to calm your nerves.

Concede the point and I will mechanically move beyond this... I am profoundly logical.

Which point? My point that mine doesn't eject stuff in quantity followed by my opinion that you should get a better one, or your hallucination of my point that none of them eject stuff?

If you're going to insist I concede points you may find it to be producive to be clear on which point you want me to concede.

It is intersting however you you are using your "enthusiasm" for this side point to mask that you've stopped arguing the main point. Is that your relentlessly logical way of conceding?

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

... you are one of the dumbest people on this board.

You literally quoted me when I said this:

"If I'm right, then reddit will create a pattern behind the wall that will look remarkably similar to someone putting a lasagna into a food processor and failing to put the lid on."

That was what your quibble referred to... by your own citation.

Note:

And failing to put the lid on.
And failing to put the lid on.
And failing to put the lid on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just wish HAES would stop being straw manned into "being fat is equally healthy as not being fat" because that's not what it's about.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[tehcyder]

Ever heard of the Clintons? Better yet, the Kennedys?

In what way does criticising Republican nepotism imply that Democrat nepotism is a good thing?

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[tehcyder]

Name recognition, and the fact that the other Republican candidates are even worse.

*cough* Donald Trump *cough*

I'm not from the US, but are you people crazy? I wouldn't let him run a McDonald's franchise, never mind the most powerful nation on Earth.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[tehcyder]

"but social spending by government does and benefits everyone"... You actually believe that? See, thats the part conservatives don't believe. We don't believe that the wisdom, or effectiveness, of the collective is better.

The problem is that a collective decision will by definition favour the majority over the individual. so if you're currently a billionaire paying no tax, of course you're going to think that paying tax to fund poor people's hospitals and schools is a bad thing.

The issue with the US in particular is that everyone sees themselves as potential billionaires, and thuerefore doesn't even act in their own self interest (since only a tiny fraction of people will ever actually become that rich).

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[david_thornley]

Ever seen US Christians whine about harassment and being attacked? This almost always turns out to be people either denying them special status or saying bad things about them. Instead of "political correctness" as a catchphrase, we get "respect for religion".

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[sound vision]

It doesn't. The point I was making is that it's not a Democrat thing, or a Republican thing, it's a politician thing.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Muad'Dave]

Wait, the infamous bus incident happened in 1955.

That's ok, no one remembers when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, either.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

"If I'm right, then reddit will create a pattern behind the wall that will look remarkably similar to someone putting a lasagna into a food processor and failing to put the lid on."

My blender doesn't splatter heavily without it's lid on. Perhaps you should consider investing in a new blender.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

blenders are even worse... you're so fucking stupid.

Blenders splatter shit all over the place if you don't put the lid on. What are you blending? I use mine to make smoothies and sauces.

Goopy stuff... and it splatters HORRIBLY if ANYONE doesn't put a lid on it.

It isn't a question of what brand you have. They all do it. FUCKING ALL OF THEM.

Why do you think they have lids on them in the first place?

Look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

What would happen if the lid weren't on? Shit would go everywhere. In that case, the guy literally has to hold the lid down with his hands because shit is hitting the lid with such force that it would knock it off otherwise.

And if you put anything in a blender that is heavier like that... such as carrots or ice or even large chunks of apple... then chunks will hit the lid with such force that it will knock it the fuck off.

And that's on every blender I've ever seen.

The blender that fellow is using in that video is a Blendtec blender and they're widely regarded to be one of the best blenders on the market sold by anyone. The gimmick in their ads is that the blender is so good it can blend stuff that other blenders can't... such as cellphones.

Seriously... fuck off. You're a degenerate.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, Silicon Valley needs a lot less people like Marissa Mayer, who managed to completely shit all over the Yahoo interface in an attempt to modernize it, had a corporate nursery erected for her kid while denying work-from-home for her workforce, and whose stock price is admittedly better but still completely unimpressive compared to a decade ago. And that says nothing whatsoever about her as a woman, only that it change should have been managed in a way that did not piss off a huge percentage of the existing userbase while doing little for the bottom line.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

Blenders splatter shit all over the place if you don't put the lid on. What are you blending? I use mine to make smoothies and sauces.

But, you see, what if the blender has no lid? Mine doesn't have a lid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Why do you think they have lids on them in the first place?

Well that's the funny thing though. Mine has no lid. It's funny, this is sort of getting like that scene from star track, but instead of me saying "there are four lights", it's me saying "there are no lids", with the caveat of course that some blenders do in fact have lids. Just not all, you see.

What would happen if the lid weren't on? Shit would go everywhere. In that case, the guy literally has to hold the lid down with his hands because shit is hitting the lid with such force that it would knock it off otherwise.

You seem to be under the impression I'm denying the existence of lidded blenders. That would be silly. I had to choose between a blender with a lid and a blender without a lid when I bought mine. What I'm saying is that not all belnders have lids and perhaps you could consider purchasing one. Then you can blend away happily without splattering stuff everywhere. Mine's a 600W Bosch model. I highly recommend it.

And that's on every blender I've ever seen.

Ah, but it would appear that you have not seen lidless blenders. I suspect you may have a kitchen equipment related epiphany coming soon.

The blender that fellow is using in that video is a Blendtec

Ah well, I'd make a special exception for blendtec. Even such a person as I would go the lidded route for one of those. Sadly, I can't justify the cost. That's why I went with a blender without a lid.

lid lid lid lid.

Seriously... fuck off. You're a degenerate.

I have been called many things before. This is the first time I've been called a degenerate over kitchen equipement :)

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

http://www.surlatable.com/prod...

https://youtu.be/-RwkYY7wb08?t...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Anonymous Coward]

You also need to realize that racist policies like eugenics, segregation, and forced sterilizations were policies advocated by progressives, as the application of science to improving society. These are the same progressives that then adopted new policies after the civil rights movement to discriminate based on race in different ways.

And Hitler owned a dog too.

This is almost by definition an ad hominium attack and/or poisoning the well. If you want to criticize "positive discrimination," the civil right movement in general, or anything else, feel free to. They have a lot of points worth criticizing (as well as points worth praising). Don't do it by cheap debating tactics trying to undermine the presenter.

If you are trying to assert to the fact that specific individuals advocating government aid are not credible because the same people are also advocating eugenics then say that. Don't just hide behind general labels and alluding to things you aren't willing to outright declare. Or do you think it's fair to say, "Christians lynched people (about 50 years ago, at least two Christians have lynched at least one person), so they are an extremist religion and the Vatican should be labeled as a terrorist organization?"

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

Mine doesn't have a splatter guard. Doesn't seem to need it. It would appear that if you buy a quality stick blender then splatter isn't a problem.

Seriously man, join us... the stick blender world is awesome and happy. You're missing out on great kitchenware.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[jwhitener]

pusillanimous

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[jwhitener]

better than after another half century of government dependency and handouts.

Correlation perhaps. Causation? I have never seen a study that proves that safety nets and government assistance led to inner city poverty cycles (which bring with them drugs/crime/etc..).

There are many countries around the world with higher levels of "handouts" than the USA has, and those safety nets have not caused inner city projects, slums, or seemed to target one specific race of people.

There are likely dozens of factors involved, but I seriously doubt that government assistance is a primary cause.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

https://youtu.be/-RwkYY7wb08?t...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

You're right after all! That video of the comedian has proven to me beyond doubt that my blender does splatter despite all appearances to the contrary. I shall depart forthwith and seek a lid for the unliddable.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

You're not getting the message of the video though... I think you need to listen to it again:
https://youtu.be/-RwkYY7wb08?t...

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[RedK]

Late to replying, but you're a bit wrong about SRD. It's Sub Reddit Drama, not Shit Reddit Does for one, and is the same crowd or thereabouts that uses SRS.

I've never seen "SRD" used to refer to Shit Reddit Does (which is as you described), only to refer to Sub Reddit Drama, which I invite you to peruse to see I wasn't wrong.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[serviscope_minor]

You're not getting the message of the video though...

Well, no, I don't generally watch videos. It's one of the reasons I hang out on slashdot. All text, and hardly any videos or pictures.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Boronx]

"You start kicking out the undesirables and its like filtering the porn links out of google. "

Or maybe it's like preventing Reddit from becoming the next 4chan.

"You want to contain as many communities as possible under the same roof."

That's what *you* want. Reddit wants to make money. Obviously they need numbers, but they're also probably going after a particular demographic. They need high-profile AMAs, they need not to be embarrassed elsewhere in the media, etc. Relying only upon shaming and other organic defense mechanism is not going to cut it.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[Karmashock]

the near future will make one of us wrong. Will you acknowledge your error if Reddit dies? Because I'll acknowledge mine if they start making money.

Reddit's future money making relies on them being THE place to set up a community. If it gets policed by progressive fuckwits then that is gone.

Again... you... disagree... we'll see.

Re:Well, she was an interim.

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

I have never seen a study that proves that safety nets and government assistance led to inner city poverty cycles (which bring with them drugs/crime/etc..).

Spending on the war on poverty was justified by reducing poverty; has poverty been reduced? No. Hence, the war on poverty has failed to deliver what it promised. When policies fail to deliver what they were justified by, nobody else has to prove causation of anything.

But, in fact, data from other countries does indicate that generous government assistance leads to cycles of poverty, because when they cut back, people move back into the workforce.

There are many countries around the world with higher levels of "handouts" than the USA has

Actually, not that many. The US welfare system is quite generous.

and those safety nets have not caused inner city projects, slums, or seemed to target one specific race of people.

Well, coming from one of those other countries, I can tell you first hand that they have caused the existence of inner city projects and slums. The fact that identifiable minorities correlate with poverty, social barriers, and discrimination is also extremely commonplace elsewhere.

Re: Well, she was an interim.

[Crashmarik]

I remember people not from the US saying the same about Reagan and loving Carter.

Sexism ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is she gonna sue herself for harassment this time ?

Meet new boss, same as old boss

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pretty clear Pao was just a scapegoat to take care of unpleasant business. It could be she turned out worse than the board expected, but make no mistake: she wasn't alone in driving the New Reddit policies they want, and had the board's full support. Her resigning will change nothing.

In other news: There's voat.co that's turning into a pretty nice community to replace Reddit. It's more like the original and the userbase is pretty big now.

Re:Meet new boss, same as old boss

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pretty clear Pao was just a scapegoat to take care of unpleasant business. It could be she turned out worse than the board expected, but make no mistake: she wasn't alone in driving the New Reddit policies they want, and had the board's full support. Her resigning will change nothing.

In other news: There's voat.co that's turning into a pretty nice community to replace Reddit. It's more like the original and the userbase is pretty big now.

now i know where to not go if i want to avoid kiddie porn and misogyny. thanks voat!

Re:Meet new boss, same as old boss

[fey000]

It's pretty clear Pao was just a scapegoat to take care of unpleasant business. It could be she turned out worse than the board expected, but make no mistake: she wasn't alone in driving the New Reddit policies they want, and had the board's full support. Her resigning will change nothing.

In other news: There's voat.co that's turning into a pretty nice community to replace Reddit. It's more like the original and the userbase is pretty big now.

now i know where to not go if i want to avoid kiddie porn and misogyny. thanks voat!

Given what counts as misogyny these days, I don't even think vacuum is considered free of it. Thanks SJWs!

Re:Meet new boss, same as old boss

[Anonymous Coward]

Voat - full of the conspiracy and meme posting asshats that invaded reddit after they all left digg.

Reddit will only be better again by them leaving.

Re:Meet new boss, same as old boss

[Anonymous Coward]

voat is the same old shithole run by a small group of mods that all mod the majority of the site.

redditers will flip out.

[Noah Haders]

wow reddit is going to flip out. I think she was handicapped from day one by her sexual harassment suit at KCPB. reddit definitely has a lot of internet libertarian types who hate anything they perceive as SJW, so for her to come in the door like this was tough. good luck to her, she's a really cool person and has been painted pretty bad in this experience.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that this whole thing was kicked off when Pao fired a woman for - well, we don't know. If you like conspiracies, the Jesse Jackson AMA. However the much more likely reason is that Taylor had the gall to question Pao's leadership, and Pao responded by firing her without thinking through the consequences.

I do find it really, really strange that the SJW side is backing Pao here when the employee she fired is also a woman. If Pao were a man, the SJWs would be all over themselves defending Taylor. But since Pao is both a woman and a minority, the SJWs have to back her since she has two victimhood points to one. (I already saw an SJW bemoaning the loss of a "CEO of color." Seriously!)

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

A really good person doesn't spend their time meticulously documenting things they don't like so they can sue over it year later (and lose). A really good person doesn't sue to fix her husbands ponzi scheme.

A good person leaves their scumbag husband and tells their employer promptly that things aren't working out. If that go person is fired for it, *then* they proceed to lawsuits immediately, not years later.

No, Ellen is an evil twisted asshole and needs to pound sand.

Re: redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. She's a fucking abusive, frivolous lawsuit filing cunt.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

But since Pao is both a woman and a minority(...)

She's no a minority, not on planet earth at least. I wonder why some people assume that Asians aren't common here?

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Strangely, even us SJW's recognize that not every firing of a woman is discriminatory. It's almost as if you've scarecrowed yourself up an enemy who doesn't exist.

I think firing Taylor was a terrible decision. But we have no evidence - or even allegations - that it was motivated by gender bias. Men and women get fired all the time - and contrary to what your bubble has told you, very few of those firings ever end up in lawsuits.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[tsotha]

The term is "straw man".

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't claim to understand SJWs, I just report on what they said. Apparently "America lost yet another person of color in a position of power" when she (voluntarily!) stepped down.

I would have figured the SJWs would split between supporting the woman unfairly fired and the woman who fired her, but as I said above, I guess Pao's second "victim point" meant the SJWs all flocked to her side.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for that riveting commentary, Ellen. And now, back to our story.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[I'm New Around Here]

That's obviously a sexist term that a true SJW would never use.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Noah Haders]

upate: the reddit thread on this topic has 15,000 comments, while this has 60.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Noah Haders]

I do find it really, really strange that the SJW side is backing Pao here when the employee she fired is also a woman.

citation needed on this one. where is the SJW side that is backing Pao? unless SJW stands for Strawman Justice Warrior.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Noah Haders]

you're a brave Anon to be making comments as an Anon. the public doesn't know anything about ellen other than a few emotionally-charged data points that everybody uses to support their side of politics/culture and hate on the other side. she's a person too.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[PapayaSF]

I do find it really, really strange that the SJW side is backing Pao here when the employee she fired is also a woman.

citation needed on this one. where is the SJW side that is backing Pao? unless SJW stands for Strawman Justice Warrior.

Misogynist Tantrum Officially Drives Ellen Pao from Reddit

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Asians are Schrodinger's White; their Of Colorness is determined solely by whether it would benefit SJW narratives to label them such.

Re: redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

All of you are sock puppets. Noone gives a fuck about this 'event.'

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

and that whole trial thing..... (posting anon to save mod points)

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Noah Haders]

The headline is a little clickbait-y, but the article is neutral. how do you associate one headline with the "SJW-side"? Do they have a parliament where they vote on which position to support? Its a bogeyman that doesn't exist.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad she doesn't realize that others are people too.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

One headline? They were like the ones branding their opposition as neckbearded mysogynists during Gamergate.

The find the ever-present noise signal from idiot trolls, amplify it, and use it to paint all opposition with a broad brush. Completely ignoring the fact that they champion a group that's actively engaged in harassment, doxxing, etc.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

All the comments they link as evidence are leaning heavily on one side.
And since they were made after she stepped down... they must be the cause!

Therefor Misogyny is to blame! Because you know, that wibbly wobbly timey wimey rule right?

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

It’s Silicon Valley 2, Ellen Pao 0: Fighter of Sexism Is Out at Reddit

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Cederic]

This site however has a noise-to-signal ratio that means you don't spend several hours working through 15000 comments to find any actual fucking information.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't the Internet I grew up with. People today are more than willing to bring an internet debate into the real world with police, and your physical community, and your employer.

Until I see that changing, the ethics of posting anon have certainly changed.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[PapayaSF]

The headline is a little clickbait-y, but the article is neutral. how do you associate one headline with the "SJW-side"?

I find your sneer about a "parliament" rather odd. It's not a "bogeyman" to note that people who generally take one side of an ideological issue will... generally take one side of an ideological issue. Yes, there are disagreements within teams, but it's not unfair to make general statements about ideological teams when those teams usually act like teams.

How many do I need to post to prove my point? Here's Arthur Chu, the self-described "social justice stormtrooper," again expressing the "SJW side": Reddit’s Terrorists Have Won: Ellen Pao and the Failure to Rebrand Web 2.0. A big feminist blog: Pao! Right in the Kisser: Reddit assholes celebrate CEO’s resignation after a week of abuse. SJWs Brianna Wu and Randi Harper are lining up just as one would expect. The NY Times puts their editorial view directly into the news. I'm sure there will be more in the coming days.

Re:redditers will flip out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's Arthur Chu, the self-described "social justice stormtrooper,"

I fucken love how they all line up behind Arthur Chu. Here's a guy who's only notable for playing Jeopardy like as asshole and who, if you were actually watching at the time, was almost immediately outperformed by a woman who managed to pull off the most wins second only to Ken Jennings (of course).

But her accomplishments are all ignored by the SJWs in favor of Arthur Fucken Chu because he has a big fat mouth and likes to be an asshole. It's always fun to watch SJWs ignore women in favor of men, while at the same time whining about how "society" does the same thing. I wonder how many SJWs watched the Women's World Cup compared to how many watched the World Cup?

What a good day today is!

[Kentokae]

First the racist conservative battle flag is removed and now Pao is removed! Whats next? Removal of citizen spying?

Re:What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

the racist conservative battle flag

You mean the one that Fritz Hollings, the Democrat, fought to install, in the 1960s?
The one that the S.C Legislature, under the control of Democrats for most of the last 50 years, kept up?

Re:What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care to what party you belong. The Confederate flag is no symbol of pride, except to the KKK. It is a symbol of hate and oppression, and needs to be parked right next to the Nazi flag where it belongs. The groups that love one of those flags, also love the other one. Every time I see a Confederate flag, I think "X marks the racist".

Re: What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that one. What's your point?

Re:What a good day today is!

[amicusNYCL]

the racist conservative battle flag

You mean the one that Fritz Hollings, the Democrat, fought to install, in the 1960s?
The one that the S.C Legislature, under the control of Democrats for most of the last 50 years, kept up?

Yes, fuckface, that's the one. Did you have another one in mind? The Democratic party is the oldest political party in the world still in existence, and for much of its history it has had conservative factions. Even up until the 1980s Southern populists were Democrats until moving to the Republican party. If you think "conservative" is a synonym for "Republican" then you're an idiot. Conservative Democrats created that flag, and were instrumental in keeping it there (I'll ignore the fact that conservative Republicans in the SC legislature are the only ones against the flag's removal, because if it was another time they might have been conservative Democrats; either way they would still be conservative).

Re:What a good day today is!

[slimjim8094]

No kidding. What party was Strom Thurmond in (until 1964), exactly? And which party was "the party of Lincoln"? One would have to be tremendously ignorant of history to confuse Democrat with liberal.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Noah Haders]

southern democrats in the 60s were basically the party of establishment white people. it wasn't until the 90s that repubs made any inroads there.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Noah Haders]

you don't know much about the south or southern culture. slavery was enshrined in the US constitution from day one: maybe the US flag is also racist? most of the "don't tread on me" founding fathers had slaves, so maybe that yellow flag with the snake is racist?

like my relationship setting on facebook, when it comes to the relationship between southerners and the confederate flag, "it's complicated." instead of spewing hate at a third of the nation, maybe you should pause to think on what you say.

Re:What a good day today is!

[known_coward_69]

just as much white people were enslaved in the USA as Africans, if not more. read up on Irish indentured servants who were shipped to the USA wholesale and how the english used to sentence criminals to "transportation" until the late 19th century. after the USA rebelled they shipped them to the pacific

Re: What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

Saying being fond of Nazi swastikas and rebel flags are inclusive of each other is like saying flying a gay pride flag means you back militant black power guerillas.

What is wrong with being racist? Is that the same as being prejudiced, and is that ok? Why is ok to have a BET channel? What would happen if someone created the WET channel? I don't think the word equal means what most idiots who love to overly generalize, pigeonhole , and be hypocrites think it means.

Re: What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

Today I learned that having a BET channel is the same thing as Nazism and slavery.

Re: What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading comprehension fail. I just love how, like Chinese who pretend they don't speak English when it suits them, wankers like you wilfully misinterpret your opponent's argument when it suits you. Liars, the lot of you.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just for those who don't know their history. Lincoln was a Republican, which back then meant he was a Liberal.

The Republicans were the party of radical new change, with a relatively untried candidate who had a long track record of losing elections. Yes, we were very fortunate he won because he probably turned out to be the best President we've had; however, he was (by that society's standards) a flaming Liberal who even came back from retirement in politics to argue against letting states decide for themselves on the issue of whether to practice slavery or not. His point of view is now accepted as the best, most rational, most humane one; but, in it's day and age it caused states to leave the Union.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Boronx]

The battle flag of traitors and terrorists who murdered hundreds of thousands of american soldiers!? That battle flag?

I guess it's good to see Republicans trying to disown it.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Boronx]

"maybe the US flag is also racist? "

Maybe it is. Do you think so? The "don't tread on me" flag was raised by slave holders to fight other slave holders because they were getting taxed too hard. The confederate battle flag was raised by slave holders to fight non-slaveholders because those non-slaveholders elected a president who wouldn't let slavery spread into the western territories. The racism there is a bit more direct.

Of course the relationship between southerners and the flag is complicated, but whether the flag should be flown, or whether they should be proud of it is not complicated in anyway. The Southern states committed treason, started a war, and murdered hundreds of thousands of american soldiers. They did this because they saw the writing on the wall. They knew that without slavery's spread, the end of slavery was near at hand in the United States.

Yes, there's a strong heritage there. A heritage of a monumental mistake for an evil cause that lead to mass murder on an industrial scale. After 150 years of white washing in the schools, and speechifying, and saying "it's complicated", it's time just say what really happened.

Southerners don't think about it much because it's not talked about, but the North, from The great lakes east all the way up to Maine have their own heritage, too, and they have note forgotten it.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Moving to the Republican Party"? You ignorant buffoon, you don't understand anything about history, do you?

Here's the New York Times (Not exactly conservative, right?): The Myth of the Southern Strategy

Your entire claim is lies and bullshit. The Democrats championed slavery for more than a century, then fought against integration for another one after that. Bull Conner was a Democrat, and the only KKK member in Congress was a Democrat. Racism is bred deep into the bones of the Democratic party, and it will take a lot longer than these past few years to be rid of it.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Uberbah]

WTF are you talking about. Denying that the racist Dixicrats moved, en mass, to the Republican party is as pointless as denying that water is wet. Just ask Zombie Thurmond. Just ask Zombie Reagan.

Re:What a good day today is!

[Uberbah]

slavery was enshrined in the US constitution from day one

Annnnnd? Why was it enshrined in the Constitution? To make the South happy.

maybe the US flag is also racist?

The U.S. was built on racism - just ask all the native tribes massacred to make those 50 states. But what was the Confederate Flag about? The Confederacy. What was the Confederacy about? A group of states leaving the union. Why did they want to leave the union? Slavery.

The one is rather more explicit than the other.

instead of spewing hate at a third of the nation, maybe you should pause to think on what you say.

And I'm sure there are some Germans, who get all pissy when someone objects to flying a big swastika flag next to their house. "It's about heritage, not hate! It's not a symbol of war and oppression, because the autobahn is pretty sweet, right?"

They'd be full of crap, too.

Re: What a good day today is!

[Uberbah]

Saying being fond of Nazi swastikas and rebel flags are inclusive of each other is like saying flying a gay pride flag means you back militant black power guerillas.

The only connection between those dots is the crap in your brains.

Re: What a good day today is!

[KGIII]

Very very few homosexuals, let's expand to 'alternative sexual lifestyle' people, actually hate straight people due to their normative sexual preferences. There are some but there are fruitcakes of all types, they are people too and we people are batshit crazy... Citation? Look around.

I am a straight guy and one of the most comfortable social environments I have found has been amongst those people. So, in the hope of actually giving you something to think about, "Go get drunk with a fag." Really...

Re:What a good day today is!

[KGIII]

The term "liberal" is pretty situational. It is, at its root, those who want change. Conservatives want to keep things the same. The two terms are more subjective and should not be applied to a single party. Doing so is facile at best and harmful at worst. The divide that we have is a sideshow. You know what to do. You just have apathy, laziness, and fear that keep you from fixing it.

Re:What a good day today is!

[x0ra]

However, KKK do have a right to free speech. http://www.acluohio.org/assets...

Re:What a good day today is!

[Kentokae]

Stop it with the dumb party blaming. It was placed by racists who exists in all political parties. The Republicans tend to have the most this time around and over 50 years ago it was the democrats. People change parties, not ideologies, go figure.

Re:What a good day today is!

[amicusNYCL]

The Democrats championed slavery for more than a century, then fought against integration for another one after that. Bull Conner was a Democrat, and the only KKK member in Congress was a Democrat. Racism is bred deep into the bones of the Democratic party, and it will take a lot longer than these past few years to be rid of it.

Yeah, no shit, did I suggest anything different? The conservative Democrats fought to retain slavery against the liberal Republicans, that is what happened. If you bothered to look at what I was responding to you would realize that I was responding to the apparent claim that "conservative equals Republican." That may be fairly true today, but it is not a universal truth throughout US history. Racist "Southern gentleman" Democrats were definitely not liberal, they were extremely conservative.

And, yes, many self-identified Democrats "moved to the Republican party" when it became clear that the Democratic party was moving to the left of the Republican party. If you've been paying attention to American politics for the last couple decades you'll have noticed that the old, conservative, religious, racist white guys are now Republicans, not Democrats. Those old racists would have been Democrats when they were young racists, but now the parties are different.

In conclusion, piss off.

Ding dong, the witch is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Ding dong, the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead.

Except not really. Unless they reverse her changes (bring back Victoria Taylor, restore the improperly banned subreddits that never harassed anyone) and show that they're really committed to communicating with their volunteer mods, then this is meaningless.

At least it's a step in the right direction, now to see if they follow through.

Reddit

[ichthus]

What's Reddit? Is it like Digg?

Re:Reddit

[MichaelSmith]

Looks like it.

Re:Reddit

[tsotha]

Seems to be heading that direction.

Re:Reddit

[antdude]

What's after Reddit when it becomes like the rebooted crappy Digg (damn v4)? :P

Re:Reddit

[KGIII]

I have been told that Digg is now good again. I have not verified this and it is surely subjective.

Re:Reddit

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting a joke about defunct websites on /. of all places.

Lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Sexual harassment lawsuit incoming.

Tell us again about how fucking unfair it all is, and keep pretending that it isn't abject incompetence.

Re:Lawsuit

[TheGreatNico]

She was hired to do a very specific job: to push changes, to be a scapegoat, then to leave with no fuss. Her name will be mentioned only as a curse

Loses frivolous lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Leaves job to be replaced by a man after firing a successful woman.

Something seems right with the world here.

Re:Loses frivolous lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

She isn't a successful woman. By all accounts, she has a long record of disaster.

Re:Loses frivolous lawsuit

[fey000]

I think he meant Victoria was the successful woman.

A triumphant return deserves ...

[Krishnoid]

some triumphal return music. Any recommendations or favorites?

Re: A triumphant return deserves ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Chopin, la marched funebre?

Or flight of the Valerie's instead?

Maybe comfortably numb, yeah that's appropriate

Re:A triumphant return deserves ...

[PapayaSF]

I think Benny Hill might be appropriate, for the whole affair.

Re:A triumphant return deserves ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Scott Joplin's "The Entertainer"

After all, the board managed to get what they want, pin it on someone "soon out the door" and the new Chief (same as the old Chief) isn't going to undo any of the damage anytime soon.

Just like in "The Sting", we've all been hoodwinked and are now patting ourselves on the back in victory despite having lost just as much as we did when we were suffering.

SJW

[Kunedog]

By using the term "SJW", you have outed yourself as someone who has had to deal with annoying, dishonest, power hungry, attention-seeking, hypocritical SJWs.

Re:SJW

[AbRASiON]

Thank god we're finally calling these morons out for what they are.

There's a big difference between someone wanting equality and someone whining and neighing about anything and everything, in an endless hunt to be the most offended person possible.

Re:SJW

[Anonymous Coward]

whining and neighing

That's sexist.

Re:SJW

[Anonymous Coward]

saying "SJW" outs you as a retard regardless of anything.

Re:SJW

[Mashiki]

saying "SJW" outs you as a retard regardless of anything.

Don't worry if the term you, yourselves coined has now turned into a term for "biggest idiots on the planet earth." I have to hand it to you though, you've successfully united both left and right in their hatred of you. Maybe that was your plan all along, but I don't think so.

Re:SJW

[Anonymous Coward]

SJW ALERT!

Everyone to their Cellars while the Whine Tornado passes over us!

Re:SJW

[Mashiki]

SJW ALERT!

Everyone to their Cellars while the Whine Tornado passes over us!

Never seen a whine tornado, but there sure is a lot of salt mining going on with them right now. So much salt infact, I think I could put Windsor Salt out of business.

Re: SJW

[cyber-vandal]

Retard is an incredibly offensive word aimed at people with learning difficulties. You're not a very good SJW are you.

Re: SJW

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, thanks to SJW

Is it back to normal?

[blogagog]

Are they still going to be all anti-gg and pro SJW? I'm not going back if they are. I find those people too depressing to be around. Always so so angry about the newest thing to be angry about.

Re:Is it back to normal?

[Pinky's Brain]

It's not like there was a purge, just one symbolic removal and a couple of personally inspired bans by Pao.

If an individual Reddit is anti-GG and you don't like that one find one which isn't ...

Re:What dumbass company will hire her next?

[Anonymous Coward]

It couldn't be worse than the shithole this place has become in the last couple years.

How do I tag this....

[Anonymous Coward]

"Who cares?"

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[fey000]

Have you checked out Leigh Alexander's new website Offworld? I hear it's like Jezebel but better. Give it a try. It sounds closer to your convictions than /. will ever be.

Only redditors

[Anonymous Coward]

Could be so stupid as to think this means anything.

Triumphant?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whose triumph is this, actually? Seems to me it's a bunch of bigots, racists, sexists and gamergate trolls.

Newsflash: being a shitbag might be your right, but it's bad business for Reddit.

Don't expect this 'triumphant' return to go your way.

Re:Triumphant?

[russotto]

Bigots and racists and sexists and fat-shamers and MRAs and moderators and even SJWs pissed of at Victoria being fired. A million special interests standing in the way of the common good.

As usual, Iowahawk nails it

[PapayaSF]

Thanks to Ellen Pao, Asian-Americans will no longer be saddled with the insidious stereotype of being bright, hardworking and competent.

Anybody know of $500k+ tech industry job openings for a lawsuit-happy SJW with no technical experience? Asking for a friend.

Re:As usual, Iowahawk nails it

[Anonymous Coward]

It's been a big year for Asian-Americans. Emma Sulkowicz cured Yellow Fever.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you're just the sort of idiot that goes to a library to fin something offensive and then uses whatever mean are at their disposal to ban those books. Book burners aren't welcome here (and frankly, that make me proud).

The allegations of the case were not proven

[Anonymous Coward]

> The facts of the case painted the firm as pretty sexist [hbr.org].

Those are allegations, not facts. Facts are things actually established in court with legally admissible evidence. Allegations are things people claim. Anyone can make up allegations, the fact that she lost proves that there was insufficient evidence that they were true. Taking all the allegations as "facts" is naive at best. People can and do lie in court.

By way of example, there's a rumor that you're a rapist. It's not supported by any factual evidence whatsoever. Do you call this an allegation or a fact?

Can we really believe anything you say in your defense, given that you might be a rapist?

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Anonymous Coward]

Every time you read the words "politically correct" in a Friday Slashdot MRA clickbait comments section, everyone has to take a drink.

Better drinking game: every time you fight through a rage-induced stroke to pound out another 'MRA!', everyone has to stop and contemplate their life and hope they're not on the same road that led to you turning into an obsessed creep full of impotent rage. And then take a shot.

Because a subreddit like /r/coontown isn't about being offensive, it's just patriots exercising their free speech on a public forum.

Because we all know free speech should only be applied to agreeable speech. No, coontown is offensive and blatantly racist. That does not mean free speech does not apply, though reddit has no obligation to host the content.

schadenfreude

[koan]

That is all.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Moridineas]

What's MRA?

applicable or am I just some old guy

[k6mfw]

who just doesn't get it? I casually read reddit like I do slashdot though lots more stuff on reddit (too much, I can't keep up with it all). It seems interesting stuff there but a huge time pit to read and digest it all. Plus have to filter out usual BS.

I was hoping to find a subreddit on specific technical subjects where I can find useful information like in the usenet days.

Re:applicable or am I just some old guy

[Anonymous Coward]

who just doesn't get it? I casually read reddit like I do slashdot though lots more stuff on reddit (too much, I can't keep up with it all). It seems interesting stuff there but a huge time pit to read and digest it all. Plus have to filter out usual BS.

I was hoping to find a subreddit on specific technical subjects where I can find useful information like in the usenet days.

Nah, you're just not immersed in the America's latest ridiculous culture war. Thanks man! After reading through all the vitriol and reactionary arguments here seeing a post from someone who is interested in using the internet, to, you know, *learn something* just made my day :)

There are a lot of new thoughtcrimes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Half of the things that are counted as [status]ism these days are actual thought crimes: we think that so-and-so did whatever they did because they hate [group], even if they may have had other reasons. That is, someone might dislike someone because they were rude to them, rather than because of the group the belong to, but certain people will assume that all dislike comes solely from their [group] and none of it could ever be due to their actions. They might fairly point out instances where they were unfairly disliked, but so can everyone, that unfairness is universal. Or possibly they can find people who really look like bigots who also dislike that person, therefore everyone who dislikes that person must not have any legitimate reasons and be a bigot.

And this is how you get crazy things like the fraternity falsely accused and punished of a rape they had absolutely no relation to. Whether there was or wasn't a rape, none of the people who got pilloried by activists had done anything wrong other than being on the wrong end of a wild accusation.

People see that Pao's claims are poorly substantiated, but when they say they find the evidence lacking, someone finds some loser who hates women and use that to paint everyone with the same brush, as if all people who think that we should be fair to everybody and require evidence to be fairly considered rather than forming internet lynch mobs are somehow the bad people here.

Nothing at all has been cleaned up.

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing Ellen did was clamp down on people making fat jokes, and then it was for abusing the voting system, not for making fat jokes. /r/coontown, reddit's largest racist subreddit is still doing just fine, steadily gaining members.

Ellen didn't clean up anything. Nothing at all. /r/picturesofdeadkids still exists too.

And the rape subreddits.

But at least the people manipulating the voting system are gone, right?

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[PopeRatzo]

Have you checked out Leigh Alexander's new website Offworld? I hear it's like Jezebel but better. Give it a try. It sounds closer to your convictions than /. will ever be.

I've been on Slashdot since you were jacking off to cheerleaders.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[PopeRatzo]

That does not mean free speech does not apply, though reddit has no obligation to host the content.

So, you admit Reddit is in no way impeding the free speech of offensive subs, right?

So what the fuck are you whining about?

Re:What dumbass company will hire her next?

[fahrbot-bot]

Political Correctness teaches us that women CEO's are always great. So we should hire her, right? I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

I know you're making a point satirically, but for those that don't get it I'll answer with two words: Carly Fiorina

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[fahrbot-bot]

Have you checked out Leigh Alexander's new website Offworld? I hear it's like Jezebel but better. Give it a try. It sounds closer to your convictions than /. will ever be.

I've been on Slashdot since you were jacking off to cheerleaders.

That's actually a little sad - and my ID is about 100k less than yours. [ Fuck me; I need to get a life. ]

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Yosho]

Well, the important thing here is that since an offensive place like /r/coontown didn't like Ellen Pao, that means that nobody else had any valid criticisms and everybody who wanted her gone is a misogynist racist. Probably heteronormative Christian cis-scum, too. Am I right?

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason I liked Reddit's hate subreddits was because within seconds one knew what was going on and could leave. The true value was that it concentrated those kinds of opinions into areas where they didn't pollute the conversations of decent people.

Youtube on the other hand has dozens of trolls wondering into every corner. President gives a speech and you have 40% postings on "worst president ever" even though we are doing really well in his administration. So the man isn't perfect, but these people slandering him are much less. He's done far more than most give him credit for, and if he could do better, it's easy to remember that he could have done a hell of a lot worse too. Compared to the kinds of blunders we've encountered in the last 20 years, he's a saint.

good for her

[Goldsmith]

Whatever you think about Pao, she was in a very tough position. Reddit was in full on shit hitting the fan mode when she took over.

The company had just raised $50M they didn't actually need, with no real plan of what to do next. The new board was micromanaging and not looking out for the good of the company. The corporate culture was self serving and tone deaf. The prior CEO couldn't get a simple office location change through the board and quit. Pao is promoted to interim CEO. The title of "interim" CEO should NEVER have been used publicly. That it was shows the stance of the board towards management. She got some control of the company back from the board, was able to institute some changes and show that the position of Reddit CEO was still meaningful in the company. Think about that transition from when she started and the CEO couldn't change the office space without board approval (that he couldn't get!) to today when everyone can agree that the CEO runs Reddit. She realized when it was time (ish) to go and (presumably) helped get a very good replacement that the board actually likes.

I don't think I would actually like working with her, but I do think she did a good job there.

Re:good for her

[Anonymous Coward]

> The prior CEO couldn't get a simple office location change through the board and quit.

They tried to force a large part of the workforce to move from NYC to SF, or they'd get fired. That's hardly a "simply office location change", that's forcing people to move across the whole country. The reason wasn't even logical, it's his feelings that "all successful startups are in SF".

> I don't think I would actually like working with her, but I do think she did a good job there.

If by "good job" you mean "alienating a large part of the contributing user base, and making sure the competition become serious alternatives", and "causing so much controversy that mainstream media ran articles about a user revolt for a week", then yes. In my eyes that's pretty much the definition of a "bad job", though. Pretty much anyone could have handled those changes better. Hell they could have hired me and I would have done a better job that she did.

Re:good for her

[Anonymous Coward]

> CEO couldn't change the office space without board approval

Duh. The VCs have what is called an exit strategy. It is completely different to exit from a SF based company than from a NYC based one. Does reddit what to be tech ? SF or GTFO. Does reddit wants to be news ? NYC or GTfO.

Of course deciding where the company goes needs board approval.

Re:good for her

[Anonymous Coward]

This. Yishan panic quit, and left reddit at a bad time. When Pao was announced as interim CEO, it was clear that the VCs and the board wanted her to implement unpopular policies and take the fall for it. Lot of people think moving the team to SF was a mistake, but I would say that was one of the conditions for VC funding. They are notorious for insisting on setting up shop in bay area.

I am not a fan of Pao, but I agree she did a good job as the CEO. Only thing she could have done better is keep an active 'fun' reddit account. The new CEO is doing it well right from the beginning.

Re:good for her

[thegarbz]

I notice you neglected to mention the whole fucking the users bit. She may have been good at internal politics but she has not left Reddit in any better position than she found it. Since she's been the CEO it seems Reddit's entire business plan involved negative publicity and doing their damnedest to kill off the user base, not to mention firing people who were popular and a help in making some of the site's more unique features run.

I get the feeling we would have been better off if she was ignored as a CEO.

Re:good for her

[Goldsmith]

I did leave that off. Because of the money they raised, they needed to boost revenue significantly. This is where people get the idea that she did the "dirty work" of trying to institute advertiser friendly policies (including firing people who were internal advocates of community over profit).

People didn't give Reddit millions of dollars to be nice to the community, they invested that money to squeeze profit out of the community (and to trigger a higher performance based buyout clause from the initial Conde Nast deal). That was a problem she inherited. Obviously those efforts have been a debacle. I think she (and the board) honestly thought that being PC police and having a hands off approach to the community was the better business decision. It's not like they picked her at random to lead the company, they knew what they were getting. It wasn't until the community shut down the site that they all realized this approach is bad. Both she and the board are now paying for those mistakes.

Huffman has made his money off of Reddit, he doesn't need another big payday, and the board will have very little effective control, they can't lose another CEO. I don't think he goes back to Reddit if the board is still strong. Good news for the community, probably bad news for the investors and advertisers.

"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Chibi Merrow]

Hate speech is when you *know* how hurtful your words are **and that's the entire point of why you say them.**

By your definition, insults are hate speech.

Hate speech is like pornography/obscenity: No one can define it, and it's usually strangely close to "Stuff I don't like."

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[AmiMoJo]

The difference between hate speech and an insult is that hate speech advocates hatred of an entire group over things that they are unable to change. So hatred of black people for their ethnicity, hatred of gay people for their sexuality.

For example:

1. "You're an idiot." Not hate speech, just an insult.

2. "You faggot". Homophobic hate speech, using a word that implies there is something wrong with being gay.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[serviscope_minor]

Hate speech is like pornography/obscenity: No one can define it, and it's usually strangely close to "Stuff I don't like."

Hard to define perfectly doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In the real world there are continua and shades of grey. I can't give a perfect, foolproof definition of porn [*], but that doesn't mean (a) porn doesn't exist and (b) youporn, redtube, etc aren't full of the stuff.

Likewise with hate speech.

[*]"Something you lose interest in once you've orgasmed" is the best definition I've heard.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[ultranova]

By your definition, insults are hate speech.

Which, of course, they are. People tell insults to work themselves up. They're psychological preparation to overcome the inhibitions against harming others. Since humans are pack animals, this preparation needs to take such highly visible form so either the victim or other members of the pack have a chance to interfere.

Look at every genocide in history. They all have a campaign of escalating slander preceding them.

Hate speech is like pornography/obscenity: No one can define it, and it's usually strangely close to "Stuff I don't like."

Pornography is speech aimed at causing sexual excitement, and hate speech is speech aimed at establishing it as acceptable to harm someone. Don't confuse people making excuses for themselves either way for the actual concepts being vague.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

> hate speech advocates hatred of an entire group over things that they are unable to change.
but by the same definition, it is possible to stop following a religion, and so you don't believe it's possible to have hate speech against a religion?

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Ol Olsoc]

For example:

1. "You're an idiot." Not hate speech, just an insult.

Which is odd, because the pejoratives idiot, moron, imbecile refer specifically to people of a range of intelligences.

IQ

50-69 Moron

20-49 Imbecile

below 20 Idiot

source: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.co... If calling someone a faggot is hate speech, then calling someone an idiot is likewise hate speech against people with an IQ of less than 20.

Just a matter of time before that becomes a banned word.

note: I'm merely noting it isn't easy to make simple statements of what is or isn't hate speech. I have a gay friend who often refers to himself as a faggot, or even "worse. If I do something stupid, I'll sometimes call myself a "dumb fucking hunky". And neither of us hate ourselves.

I tend to apply it to when threats of violence are made, along with whatever group the perp is encouraging violence against.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't like porn, you probably are in the minority...

Re: "Hate Speech" has no definition

[Bartles]

It's hard to define by design. Authoritarianism depends on murky arbitrary definitions of right and wrong, because it gives those in control of others more power to punish they're enemies and favor their friends.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Bing Tsher E]

"You faggot". Homophobic hate speech,

Except in Italy, where you've just called somebody a bassoon.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[AmiMoJo]

It's down to how the words are commonly used. Although "idiot" does have a medical definition, it's not commonly used in that way by ordinary people. In fact medical professionals tend to refrain from using it in the clinical sense because of its more common meaning.

I appreciate that many nerds would like words to have clearly defined meanings that are agreed upon by everyone and never change, but sadly that's not how language works. It can even vary depending on the speaker, e.g. a black person using the word nigger vs a white person saying it. Even then white people can say it without being offensive sometimes, as I just did.

Re: "Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

It is as simple as this: "hate speech" is something made up to carve off a set of free speech that can be banned. It is nothing more than people trying to get around constitutional free speech because it offends them. First, you have to redefine it as something other (or more heinous) than "free speech".

To do this, they look at the things said by groups that often incite violence or are seen to cause tragedy (like suicide). Next they tie the speech to the act and imply that the speech *causes* the acts.

Last they convince people that this isn't free speech, but speech which causes violence and voila... Anything you can label as hate speech, you can ban.

Now I absolutely hate when people use their words to hurt others, and have been the target of such things in my life. The appropriate response is recognizing that those people have nothing better to do than entertaining themselves by verbally abusing others. Then ignore them.

If everyone also ignore those people instead of giving them attention they would probably find something else to do.

As for hate speech contributing to violence, ANYTHING you say can incite violence depending not on who you are talking to. The problem is the violence, not the speech.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

For example:

1. "You're an idiot." Not hate speech, just an insult.

2. "You faggot". Homophobic hate speech, using a word that implies there is something wrong with being gay.

Perhaps we should get you onto the Reddit editorship seeing you are defining the bounds of speech appropriateness for the rest of us.

I don't know why, but when I read your tiny missive the word 'fucking wimp' spring immediately to mind. Note that this is clearly not hate speech since I am aiming this at you and only you. And not an entire class of fucking wimps.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Smauler]

What does "idiot" mean to you then? The first definition that comes up when you google it is "a stupid person". "Stupid" essentially means lacking intelligence (when applied to a person).

I'm seriously curious. What do _you_ mean when you call someone an idiot?

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[msauve]

You're a hypocrite. You argue that "idiot" can change meaning depending on the speaker. Then, so can "offensive" and 'hate." Who are you to tell someone what either means or that they're wrong in how they're using the term?

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[AmiMoJo]

Someone acting stupidly. That's quite different to someone with developmental problems or a mental illness though.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

*/flamebaiton/* Fuck You and your notion of political incorrectness */flamebaitofff/*

Political Correctness started out when anarchist punks started heckling speakers invited to speak at major universities in the US in the late 1980's.

These speakers, quite frequently corporate shills, foreign dignitaries, or govenrment spokepersons would come to our universities and spread their lies and propaganda and the anarchist punks called spades spades and called them out. I remember, I was there, I remeber the term being fuckin coined.

For some reason the retards of America coopted the term for themselves to label anything remotely offensive to anyone under any circumstances.

Then a generation of anti-social fuckwads came along and started measuring their manhood in terms of their ability to say offensive things.

"politically incorrect" is an accusation by someone without social power challenging someone with great social power, it is a subversive tool to challenge hegemonic discourse, nothing more, nothing less. Everything else associated with "PC" is the product of immature anti-social fuckwads, 99% of whom are white and male. For they are the only ones to get a hard on about PC.

There are things in American society which are taboo to talk about due to reigning mores and social norms, some of which are highly political. However these issues have nothing to do with what others call PC. Because they are fucking taboo, ie. not talked about. For some reason the antisocial fuckwads measure their freedom, penis envy, in terms of their GAWD GIVEN right to inflame others to acts of violence against groups and/or individuals.

And if you take offense at any of this I really could care less, speaking anonymously I get to be an antisocial fuckwad

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

For example:

1. "You're an idiot." Not hate speech, just an insult.

Which is odd, because the pejoratives idiot, moron, imbecile refer specifically to people of a range of intelligences.

IQ

50-69 Moron

20-49 Imbecile

below 20 Idiot

source: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.co... If calling someone a faggot is hate speech, then calling someone an idiot is likewise hate speech against people with an IQ of less than 20.

Just a matter of time before that becomes a banned word.

note: I'm merely noting it isn't easy to make simple statements of what is or isn't hate speech. I have a gay friend who often refers to himself as a faggot, or even "worse. If I do something stupid, I'll sometimes call myself a "dumb fucking hunky". And neither of us hate ourselves.

I tend to apply it to when threats of violence are made, along with whatever group the perp is encouraging violence against.

Only an idiot could answer the way you just did.

try looking up the etymology of the word idiot, hint it's roman and predates IQ anything by about 2000 years.

common usage has held onto that meaning for nearly 2000 years in all of western culture, even if most don't realize it.

now heres more homework for you, look up the word "moron", hint it comes from the birthplace of democracy

does the shoe fit?

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[faway]

Homophobic speech is just the latent homosexual's way of projecting his secret shame onto others.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Ol Olsoc]

What does "idiot" mean to you then?

I go with the medical definition.

The issue with what I call word creep might be noted by this example.

Once upon a time, there wre words with some definitions like moron, imbecile, idiot. Then that was considered a bad thing to call people. Next we had retarded, then slow, then special, then intellectually challenged, new words, all designed to remove the stigma of the previous name.

But each time, people would pounce upon the new word, and turned it into a pejorative with the same connotation. We used to call people "special" with the same inflection as the old Saturday night Live Church lady skits, and it meant - Slow, it meant retarded, it meant imbecile, it meant moron it meant idiot.

And the same thing happens now, with intellectually challenged. Hopefully we can get away from the word shifting, then having to make up a new descriptive after the old one's been turned into a pejorative. We'll eventually run out of words.

In a what goes around comes around moment, the old term "colored" reference to people of African descent went through a few mutations, and we otften hear Africans referring to themselves as "people of color"

I'll stick to defined terms. Perhaps that makes me a person with "ass burgers" (the 5th graders pejorative) Morons and idiots? I'll refer to their actions as stupid. No ambiguity there.

Re: "Hate Speech" has no definition

[serviscope_minor]

Are you talking about porn or hate speech?

What you said literally applies equally to both. I'll assume the former.

Porn exists. Just being hard to define does not stop it from existing.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[uninformedLuddite]

You really are very stupid

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

just like Pornography vs art comes down to whether or not it gives the judge a boner.

Re:"Hate Speech" has no definition

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate speech is when you *know* how hurtful your words are **and that's the entire point of why you say them.**

By your definition, insults are hate speech.

Hate speech is like pornography/obscenity: No one can define it, and it's usually strangely close to "Stuff I don't like."

If you're so mentally challenged that you can't be bothered to respect other people as a matter of course, stay the fuck away from me, shithead.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Anonymous Coward]

MRA = Men's Rights Activist. Most SJWs make fun of MRAs, seemingly because they believe that men have too many rights. You see, other men in the past have done bad things and it's only fair to fix that going forward by punishing people who weren't actually alive at the time, because they're all guilty by association.

Re: voat.co

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll gladly visit the site formerly known as voat.co after they pick a better name -AND- a better TLD.

(I'm dead serious; the name "voat" screams "trying too hard to sound like a hipster" to me.)

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[saynt]

Ahem.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Mashiki]

I've been on Slashdot since you were jacking off to cheerleaders.

Says the newfriend, wish I could remember my old password, I did have a 4UID at one point. Oh well.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[wish bot]

How much did you pay?

Re:What dumbass company will hire her next?

[wish bot]

Casual sexism for the win.

Oh wait, that was't casual at all!

Dickwad.

Honesty and Trustworthy

[Anonymous Coward]

Ms Pao has apply demonstrated she is dishonest and untrustworthy.

I would suggest she go into at the earliest possible hour, psychoanalysis and therapy, possibly at a clinic that has expertise in treatments of psychopathic disorders like the various forms of schizophrenia.

Re: Today's phrase that pays is "politically corre

[Anonymous Coward]

I find stomping on and burning the American flag to be offensive. And pictures of the president made to look like a monkey could be considered racist. Yet we allow both of these things and more. See Westburo Baptist Church.

I find that those who want to censor something can not make a solid argument as to why that view is wrong. Look at the states that have banned discussion on global warming. We banned the discussion, now it can't happen. If we ban a flag, racism will stop right?

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Anonymous Coward]

A slander thrown about by sexist SJW feminazis to try to shut up an males that might participate in the discussion.

Oh, you meant "what does it stand for"? Men's Rights Activist.

Strawman much?

[Anonymous Coward]

Democratic presidential candidates: Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and now likely Hillary Clinton again, with a possibility of Chelsea Clinton later.

You have a good point that we don't exactly vote for the best candidate, but the nepotism is in getting into a position to run in front of the entire country.

Re:What dumbass company will hire her next?

[Mashiki]

Yes because hiring a women because women, not on merit isn't sexist at all.

Conservatives have destroyed /.

[Anonymous Coward]

They are no in the process of doing the same to reddit. Their kind is so destructive. So destructive. The poster I'm responding to posts the truth, so the Republican morons bury him. They hate the truth. Hate it. That is the way of their kind. Truth is an anathema to their kind.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[nyet]

HELLO FREND!

well.... gender equality *sigh*

[Mirar]

Whatever happened might have hurt gender equality in boards and IT.

I hope her incompetence (not discussing if real or imagined) doesn't hurt the possibility for other girls to have the same roles.

Mayer dishonesty: Firefox switched to Bing search.

[Futurepower(R)]

Exactly. And those are not all the reasons Mayer should be considered incompetent.

For example, I understand that she allowed a deal in which Microsoft pays Yahoo to use Bing search, but dishonestly calls it Yahoo search. (See the title of this web page: Advertise on the Yahoo Bing Network.)

Then, I understand, Marissa Meyer paid Mozilla Foundation to switch the Firefox browser to Yahoo (actually Bing) search during an "update". That was a sneaky trick. Users of Firefox weren't notified. Most of them don't know how to configure Firefox to use Google search again.

To me, that indicates that both Microsoft and Yahoo managers are dishonest and therefore incompetent.

Pao versus Mayer

[Taco Cowboy]

I've been in the States for several decades and I've come across plenty of people to be able to see a pattern, or two

I'll start with the Chinese - as I am a Chinese

There are two main types of Chinese in America - one tries very hard to pretend that they are Whites, while another know that no matter how they try they will still be called 'chinks'

Pao belongs to the former, and she sure tries very hard to be amongst the in crowd

I've paid close attention to what Pao has been doing over these few years - and I've noticed that the more she tried the worse she has become

Her first try to become a leader of the 'in crowd', in the corporate world was getting no where, quick - and when the whole thing bombed she wasted no time filing frivirous lawsuits againsther former employer

Her involvement with the extreme leftist circle got her the job at Reddit (as aptly described in one of the above comments as 'an interim') but she fucked that up too

The problem with Pao is that she has mixed with the wrong crowd, and her ambition is way too high for her own ability

Mayer, on the other hand, didn't have to go through what Pao has gone through. Mayer wasn't infected with the 'inferior complex' that many Chinese American are suffering from

As a Chinese in America I can tell you that those who look down on themselves (as Chinese) often live a really misery life. Everyday they had to struggle through the feeling of self-pity, self-hate, and self-denial

For Pao, all I say is that I pity her --- she should try slowing down, and start reflecting on what she has done

Re:Mayer dishonesty: Firefox switched to Bing sear

[kuzb]

Not that I agree with those business tactics, but I think your dishonest = incompetent equation doesn't make much sense. If a con artist manages to con people out of a lot of money, he's definitely dishonest. However you can't really call him incompetent.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[St.Creed]

It's something like a unicorn: a mythical creature that doubles as strawman for discussion purposes.

Allegation versus facts

[Taco Cowboy]

I find it interesting that so many from the politically-correctness camp have so much difficulties differentiating allegations from facts

Is it a 'bird of a feather' thing?

Learning another culture is difficult.

[Futurepower(R)]

Irrelevant question: Why did a Chinese person call himself "Taco" (Mexican) "Cowboy" (American)?

I am one of a 5th generation of a family in the United States. I have had Chinese friends and acquaintances in five countries.

Learning another culture is very difficult. There are many Chinese who aren't able to do it; that's why there are "China towns".

I've known people who were born in other countries, whose parents were from the U.S., who were not able to learn the culture of the country in which they live.

I tried to help a Chinese woman in the U.S. who was married to an American. She is intelligent. She has a master's degree. Her husband wanted a divorce. The underlying problem seemed to be that her mother had been very controlling. Unconsciously, she was being controlling toward her husband in a way that convinced him she didn't care.

Why was the Chinese woman's mother controlling? One of the fundamental historical reasons for parents to be controlling was the lack of full social security in China. Parents felt it was necessary to control their children so that, when the parents were older, they would have financial security provided by their children.

I'm guessing that Ellen Pao has the same kind of problem. There are areas in which Ms. Pao has complete understanding. There are other areas in which she fails to realize her lack of social sophistication.

Am I the only one...

[kevingolding2001]

who read this as Ellen Page?
... I guess so.

Very unfortunate

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this just proves how people today have no tolerance or self control when it comes to non face to face communication. It seems today we have little respect for a respectful dialogue and its why I find it difficult to take advantage of the freedom of the internet for expressing ideals, opinions, or beliefs. Because your going to have disrespectful comments and even some very profane unwarranted comments. I don't believe in censorship, but I also think vulgar non productive and vial comments should be removed and that person banned. Unfortunately Ellen Pao was another victim of the internet trolls lashing out against some sense of dignity for a service. Its like Mr. Eich of Mozilla fame who was soundly pushed out as CEO because of his personal beliefs about same sex marriage. People should not lose jobs just because they don't think like some other people.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Cederic]

I still am. Mmmm, cheerleaders.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[PopeRatzo]

I thought at least one Slashdotter would have gotten my Godfather reference. I guess not.

Re: Today's phrase that pays is "politically corre

[PopeRatzo]

I find stomping on and burning the American flag to be offensive. And pictures of the president made to look like a monkey could be considered racist. Yet we allow both of these things and more. See Westburo Baptist Church.

We allow those things in public. That has nothing to do with what Reddit has done (and continues to do by the way). A private company can choose to not host whatever they want and it's not censorship.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Anonymous Coward]

Men's Rights Activists.

Re:Mayer dishonesty: Firefox switched to Bing sear

[slashdice]

Was it also bad when Google paid Mozilla to be the default search option?

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Anonymous Coward]

isn't about being offensive, it's just patriots exercising their free speech on a public forum

whynotboth.jpeg.BMP.avi

Re:What dumbass company will hire her next?

[KGIII]

There was no time when /.was this great thing. It is not now, nor has it ever been, all things to everyone. There are still people here who do not read the article, spout ignorant opinions, and are offensive. I am glad to be one of them.

Anyhow, if you do not like it then there is an 'X' in the upper-left or upper-right corner of your browser. It is how you solve the problems of not liking a site. There is a community online, or the chance to make one, that will suit your needs. You may have to make it yourself, you can, and see if anyone likes your same sensibilities. That is entirely up to you. What is not up to you is to determine how, what, or if an online community should change.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[Spamalope]

I've been on Slashdot since you were jacking off to cheerleaders.

Slut shaming cheerleaders? Turn yourself into the Jezebel re-education camp immediately.

Bragging about a high six digit UID is sad. In fact, bragging about the age of your account for any reason at all except to joke about it in a 'get off my lawn' fashion is lame. How about writing intelligently so you have something of worth to brag about.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[saynt]

Never seen a UID that close to mine, we must have joined the same week.

Re:Today's phrase that pays is "politically correc

[saynt]

Not a thing, just very early to to the party.

Google didn't interfere, apparently.

[Futurepower(R)]

My understanding was that Google didn't interfere with Firefox development.

Apparently Microsoft is interfering. The Thunderbird and SeaMonkey Composer GUIs have been damaged, apparently deliberately. Every time you do a file save, the newer versions of both Thunderbird and SeaMonkey ask for a new file name, and don't suggest the last one chosen.

The damage was reported several months ago, but has not been fixed. Is that another example of Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? People who feel forced away from Thunderbird may choose Microsoft software to replace it. Is that something Microsoft is trying to accomplish?

Google had been paying Mozilla Foundation $300,000,000 each year!! Where did the money go? Did you see that amount of development in Firefox?

Denier is now a political hate term

[Anonymous Coward]

Denier is now the new political hate term for all those who don't believe in Glow Ball Wamming.

Only in Amrikkka so far.

You Denier YOU!!

YES I AM!! :) :) :)

Con artists destroy.

[Futurepower(R)]

" If a con artist manages to con people out of a lot of money, he's definitely dishonest. However you can't really call him incompetent."

Con artists destroy faith in the company, both inside and outside.

Re:Con artists destroy.

[kuzb]

You're missing the point. You're only incompetent if you didn't achieve your goal, and should have been able to. A con artist's goal is his own well being, not that of anyone else.

To conform to the stereotypical norm ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... Irrelevant question: Why did a Chinese person call himself "Taco" (Mexican) "Cowboy" (American)?

I guess TC, in order to conform to the customary steoreotypical racial casting norm of America, he ought to change to "EC" --- Eggroll Chinatown, then

Con artists have miserable lives.

[Futurepower(R)]

Have you known con artists? They have MISERABLE lives.

Re:Con artists have miserable lives.

[kuzb]

Are you stupid, or just being intentionally dense?

Femninazi is gone hallelujah

[Anonymous Coward]

Hallelujah, that first world SJW is gone. A victory of man kind over the feminazis.