I'm mostly just curious here, but what does the mod-chip enable that the X-Box disables? If you have a DVD-R burner and the file, what does the X-Box detect (or NOT detect) on your burned disc that commercial discs don't contain?
If someone had the XDK, what's stopping them from putting it all together and putting it out? Any links to articles discussing the issue would also be most appreciated!
Nice trolling there bud. Too bad you're flat out wrong. Intel's Itanium processors include built-in x86 emulation, so no seperate software is required. Initial iterations of the Itanium have a dog-slow x86 emulation system, but I'm willing to bet that by the time this becomes consumer technology Intel will have made it atleast as fast as a high-end Pentium III.
As for AMD and their Hammer initiative-- I'm impressed with the extensions AMD is proposing, but I'm seriously questioning the kind of support they can *really* get for it from the big software makers. I mean, if no software uses it, what's the point in specifically shopping for an AMD processor? (And on the flip side, even if software DOES use it, most vendors won't drop x86 support completely; they'll continue to support x86 for as long as Intel continues to release processors that support it.)
but I've yet to hear of a jurisdiction which would consider you bound to an agreement you didn't see or agree to whatsoever
Tell that to American Medical Response (AMR) when they pick you up and take you to the hospital, then send bill collectors after your ass to get their fees when you manage to live. No kidding, they charge $150/mile, and a minimum of around $300 ('location fee') to start the journey. I'm still amazed they can run a business when they're taking people who aren't even conscious to the hospital, without having signed a contract. (Or worse, signing a contract while still in a barely lucid state.)
Of course, to claim that defense in court you'd probably have to assert that the retailer you bought your ReplayTV from beat you unconscious with a baseball bat, then threw you out the door with ReplayTV in hand.. then, I've seen a lot of Circuit City employees with Louseville Sluggers recently.
It's not about the frequency range (though 24 bit vs. 16 bit is a nice increase). It's about the 5.1 audio channels (the ability to discretely position audio in the room/listening environment). THAT's why people should be interested in new audio formats, the immersive properties of it.
Indeed this is the biggest draw for me to offerings such as DVD-Audio and SACD. 5.1 digital audio would probably offer a lot to the type of music I listen to (usually movie soundtracks by composers like John Williams, James Horner, David Arnold, and Hans Zimmer, to name a few). Current CD's can only offer basic Dolby Surround AFAIK (or can they even offer that?), but with 5 discrete channels, they could easily use positioning to make it feel like you're in the middle of the orchestra.
One thing I've been curious about is positional audio (something I've never even heard discussed, atleast not in the ways I imagine it); the notion of storing the locations of individual instruments and allowing on-the-fly repositioning of the sound sources. In other words, let's say Sony Classical releases a [new media here] of John Williams performing music from Star Wars Episode II. Now let's say the user can see in a 3D (or top-down 2D) map where they are in the midst of all the musical sources (sources being instruments, explosions (movies), or other sound effects/whatever). The user moves their position around, and immediatly hears different effects and instruments from different directions.
I've always felt such a system would probably be the ultimate sound system for music lovers. Such a format would probably need individual channels (or audio streams) for each instrument though, to allow for real-time remixing. But I think it's a worthy goal, and with new optical disc formats promising even denser storage capacities, not an entirely unrealistic one at that. =)
Uh, with a 4+ MB cache, the I/O bus and memory architecture aren't nearly as big of a hit on performance as they are on our piddly consumer processors with a mere 512KB of L2 cache. (And up until recently, 256KB was the norm!)
Properly written applications that take advantage of the cache (think video encoders that apply multiple filters on content already in the cache, for one example) are going to scream on this architecture.
Hm, I think when I get one I'll try out the service for a month or so and see what it's like. As you pointed out in your other reply, keeping track of what's on and when can be a pain. The most enticing thing to me about a TiVo was the pause live TV deal, as well as the quality enhancement over VHS tape..
The other problem I have with their service is the need to be connected to a phone jack. My lame-ass apartment complex felt it'd be neat to provide 1 ("one") phone jack for the living-room area and the kitchen area (and it's in the kitchen) and the only other jack is in the master bedroom. For some funky reason I envisioned an ethernet connection on the back of the thing, which would have melded well with the LAN I've got setup. =) Ah well. The other thing I learned from poking through the user manual that I was going to ask about was S-Video in/out capabilities; I'm happy to see they provide those connections.
Thanks for your help on clearing up my questions about the service. =)
A TiVo without TiVo service is nothing more than an expensive VCR. I'd suggest you not waste your money.
Well, I assume the feature with being able to 'pause live TV' still works without paying the subscription, right? If so, it has a lot more going for it than my trusty ol' VHS. =) There's also the issue of quality of recorded content; VHS tapes wear out rather quickly (atleast I notice a quality difference after a handful of uses), whereas recording to a HD should never change the quality of the recorded show.
I guess I'm just not interested in a guide, and would rather save $200-300 (if I paid up front) or $20-30/month than dish it out for something I don't really need.;)
If I'm wrong about any of my assumptions, let me know, otherwise it sounds like a better deal than my VCR currently is. =) Thanks!
I have a TiVo that does not have a monthly fee and does not spy on my TV viewing habits. So that's a strange coincidence. Maybe you could have gotten a TiVo if only you did some homework first.
I've been toying with the idea of buying a Tivo for about a month now, but I've never had a chance to find out if the monthly fee is required or if you can simply use it for it's recording features (which I imagine is all most people want).. can you shed some light on this? Can the monthly fee crap be avoided without a hack?
Thanks for your opinion on the matter. I think I'll take Security Focus' article on this to be accurate and realistic however, in light of the fact that THEY'VE had a reasonably long life making accurate reports whereas you, whom I've never even HEARD of, appears to just be posturing in a public forum.
Just like ISP (and cable and phone and hosting service) "setup fees", things like this will never get implemented because. Sure, it costs the broadband provider NOTHING to uncap the bandwidth during dead periods, but so few people will actually benefit from it (or complain enough to implement it) that it's not worth their time.
I still picture the little old lady who uses a terminal to enter in all my information at the cable company, then presses an 'Enable Service' button, getting paid $175,000/yr for her services (clearly she makes a lot of money if I can be charged a setup fee that's $20-40!). (PS: Yah, not all places charge setup fees anymore, but those that do have just as little justification for it as companies in the past have.)
Shrug, I want to buy a house someday, put away for retirement, etc, etc. The thing about IT is that it's an ever-changing environment, and unlike most other professions that respect senority and age, IT seems to constantly want to replace people with college grads or hell, even high-school grads. (Mainly because it's a well known fact that while older workers CAN keep up with technology, nothing beats a bored teen in his/her parents basement typing away on the next big thing (TM).)
Basically our pay helps make up for the fact that some of us don't last long in the industry, and will likely be replaced by younger (and subsequently, cheaper) labor. So yeah, I'm pissed that my next job may have me making less (I was earning $72k/yr before I was laid off), as I'd like to move forward and continue putting towards the goals I want for my family. Goals I can't reach safely and with confidence on lower and lower salaries (I think everyone would agree with me here-- why pay the minimum payment on a mortgage/lease/etc when you can pay double and get it out of the way quickly; that's peace of mind that even if your job disappears in X years, that house is taken care of).
I agree 100% with what your point is, but I don't think it applies to the discussion at hand-- it's a well known fact that (in the USA atleast) teachers are severly underpaid, understaffed and not provided nearly the level of funding and benefits they rightly deserve. But contrast IT jobs against another field (such as the practice of medicine) and you begin to see that we're really making about what we ought to make, considering OUR work doesn't revolve around saving lives (and yet must involve a certain level of knowledge to perform). I'm speaking specifically about programmers (C, C++, assembler, etc).. I'll agree 100% that network admins are overpaid generally, though for those amazingly talented admins, no amount of money is enough IMHO. =)
Agreed, they're no where to be found on places such as Amazon.com or EBworld.com (or Gamestop.com), which are the big three retailers AFAIK. Smaller online specialty shops may still have them, but I imagine they're asking more than retail given the shortages these days.
Does Intel's desktop cards support PXE (or rather, have the correct support so as not to be lumped in with Netgear's cards (bleh.. when I first got into networking I bought some Netgear cards because I had such great success with their switches/hubs-- NEVER AGAIN; this is the company that accidentally setup their PCI ID (or whatever it is that allows Win9x to autodetect and load drivers for devices) incorrectly as ANOTHER card, thus allowing Windows to load the WRONG driver for the card-- nightmare!)?
I've had really good experiences with Intel NIC's, and in fact have two Pro 100/S Server Adapters and two Pro/1000 T Server Adapters (the forefather to the newer 'server' class models) for use in my systems-- Intel's driver support is absolutely amazing, and incredibly stable/friendly. The fact that they offer up alternate platform drivers is just another bonus.
I'd be happy with an 8 + 2 switch from someone-- i.e. 8 10/100 ports with 2 10/100/1000 ports for my main file sharing boxen (and I imagine these would be a hit at LAN parties, so the server running the game could have a gigabit connect to the switch, allowing most of the 10/100 connections to saturate it with updates (and vice versa)). The trend of hardware makers (Netgear has done this too, FS309T is an 8 port 10/100 with a SINGLE 10/100/1000 copper gigabit port) to make these 8 + 1 solutions just sucks (since you can't really test the faster speed of gigabit with JUST one port).
Of course in a perfect world, I'd agree that 8 port gigabit switches being $200 or less would be about near perfect, especially if higher port counts weren't unrealistically high.
It's a little strange, too.. as of DX 8.0 they've KILLED DirectDraw (the last revision to DirectDraw was in DX 7 with the IDirectDraw7 interface). Things that make little sense? The fact that while the API supports scaling and rotation of 2D images, hardware vendors didn't bother supporting it (yet, with Direct3D you could make a surface, display only that surface's side to the viewer, and perform basically the same operation all day long). Senseless.
Microsoft should have stuck it out with DirectDraw and forced hardware vendors to implement the support in their drivers (as they should have anyways).
You know, it's funny that you make the comment about it being "our culture that they own". I instantly thought of the injustices done to the copyright act, mostly the almost endless extensions given to copyright merely to appease those in power. (Remembering that originally copyright didn't even last as long as the authors lifetime, wasn't it like 17 years?) If copyright really only lasted the same amount of time as when it was enacted, I'd probably be more sympathetic towards the RIAA's plight (though, it would honestly be more convincing if it actually represented artists, and not the labels).
I just thought it was interesting, the "owned culture" you mentioned, when the original copyright act didn't convey ownership of our culture to anyone, except for short fixed periods.
Well shit, you don't even need to be a genius to figure that out. Programming, fundamentally, is all about mathmatics and equations, and when you want to know the answer to 2 + 2, you don't do 4 + -2 to find the answer, you do 2 + 2 (I'm simplifying this, but most people who have even thought about programming should recognize what I'm trying to say). No professor needed, though it might help-- I doubt any Judge could be this dumb as to reach the conclusion that what Blizzard/etc is saying is true.
Of course, I said the same thing about the DeCSS/2600 case, so don't make any bets on my opinion. =)
Re:He really isn't a nut
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Time Travel
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Dude, if that was the case, I'd be four years old by now.
Wait. My wife said I hung like a four year old, maybe it IS working!
Re:We should be encouraging these people
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I'm not sure how to take your response.. I was pointing out that travel at the speed of light is just as improbable as time travel, yet because we're all geeks at heart, we all want to BELIEVE it can be done. Reality is great, but when the PERCEIVED reality obscures your vision and imagination, maybe it's time to take a step back and rethink what we THINK is possible? Star Trek isn't useless fantasy, it fires up the imagination of our youth and gives them something to aspire towards-- some of the best inventions of modern times have roots in the fiction of old. Giving yourself imaginary restrictions because of people like Eistein (who make rules that scientists are supposed to follow) isn't just holding yourself back, but humanity as a whole.
Re:We should be encouraging these people
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Time Travel
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No kidding, I've always shaked my head at people that poke fun at those who want to make this possible-- beyond the ethical ramifications, it's a cool idea, one worth exploring. Just because current scientific "laws" say it's not possible (or, very hard to implement) doesn't mean it's not something to pursue; just as we geeks don't poke fun at those trying to break the speed of light (Star Trek, anyone?).
Imagination and innovation should be rewarded, not heckled.
Well, supposedly the largest (EP)ROM you can buy right now is 255 Mbit (note, not megabyte, megabit, so 32 megabytes).. can Linux be squeezed into such a small space and still have functionality to boot/etc? Is there even enough volatile memory available in a GBA to work? I know NetBSD was running on a Dreamcast (though I don't think they've (the developers) have gone much farther than just getting it to boot and run), so it seems reasonable to see atleast that running on the GBA's ARM processor...
Does anyone know the minimum memory/media constraints for Linux though? I've never given it much thought. =)
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I'm mostly just curious here, but what does the mod-chip enable that the X-Box disables? If you have a DVD-R burner and the file, what does the X-Box detect (or NOT detect) on your burned disc that commercial discs don't contain?
If someone had the XDK, what's stopping them from putting it all together and putting it out? Any links to articles discussing the issue would also be most appreciated!
You are a hairy cockmonger, bastard. =)
Nice trolling there bud. Too bad you're flat out wrong. Intel's Itanium processors include built-in x86 emulation, so no seperate software is required. Initial iterations of the Itanium have a dog-slow x86 emulation system, but I'm willing to bet that by the time this becomes consumer technology Intel will have made it atleast as fast as a high-end Pentium III.
;)
As for AMD and their Hammer initiative-- I'm impressed with the extensions AMD is proposing, but I'm seriously questioning the kind of support they can *really* get for it from the big software makers. I mean, if no software uses it, what's the point in specifically shopping for an AMD processor? (And on the flip side, even if software DOES use it, most vendors won't drop x86 support completely; they'll continue to support x86 for as long as Intel continues to release processors that support it.)
Cute comment 'bout XFree86.
Tell that to American Medical Response (AMR) when they pick you up and take you to the hospital, then send bill collectors after your ass to get their fees when you manage to live. No kidding, they charge $150/mile, and a minimum of around $300 ('location fee') to start the journey. I'm still amazed they can run a business when they're taking people who aren't even conscious to the hospital, without having signed a contract. (Or worse, signing a contract while still in a barely lucid state.)
Of course, to claim that defense in court you'd probably have to assert that the retailer you bought your ReplayTV from beat you unconscious with a baseball bat, then threw you out the door with ReplayTV in hand.. then, I've seen a lot of Circuit City employees with Louseville Sluggers recently.
It's not about the frequency range (though 24 bit vs. 16 bit is a nice increase). It's about the 5.1 audio channels (the ability to discretely position audio in the room/listening environment). THAT's why people should be interested in new audio formats, the immersive properties of it.
Indeed this is the biggest draw for me to offerings such as DVD-Audio and SACD. 5.1 digital audio would probably offer a lot to the type of music I listen to (usually movie soundtracks by composers like John Williams, James Horner, David Arnold, and Hans Zimmer, to name a few). Current CD's can only offer basic Dolby Surround AFAIK (or can they even offer that?), but with 5 discrete channels, they could easily use positioning to make it feel like you're in the middle of the orchestra.
One thing I've been curious about is positional audio (something I've never even heard discussed, atleast not in the ways I imagine it); the notion of storing the locations of individual instruments and allowing on-the-fly repositioning of the sound sources. In other words, let's say Sony Classical releases a [new media here] of John Williams performing music from Star Wars Episode II. Now let's say the user can see in a 3D (or top-down 2D) map where they are in the midst of all the musical sources (sources being instruments, explosions (movies), or other sound effects/whatever). The user moves their position around, and immediatly hears different effects and instruments from different directions.
I've always felt such a system would probably be the ultimate sound system for music lovers. Such a format would probably need individual channels (or audio streams) for each instrument though, to allow for real-time remixing. But I think it's a worthy goal, and with new optical disc formats promising even denser storage capacities, not an entirely unrealistic one at that. =)
Uh, with a 4+ MB cache, the I/O bus and memory architecture aren't nearly as big of a hit on performance as they are on our piddly consumer processors with a mere 512KB of L2 cache. (And up until recently, 256KB was the norm!)
Properly written applications that take advantage of the cache (think video encoders that apply multiple filters on content already in the cache, for one example) are going to scream on this architecture.
Hm, I think when I get one I'll try out the service for a month or so and see what it's like. As you pointed out in your other reply, keeping track of what's on and when can be a pain. The most enticing thing to me about a TiVo was the pause live TV deal, as well as the quality enhancement over VHS tape..
The other problem I have with their service is the need to be connected to a phone jack. My lame-ass apartment complex felt it'd be neat to provide 1 ("one") phone jack for the living-room area and the kitchen area (and it's in the kitchen) and the only other jack is in the master bedroom. For some funky reason I envisioned an ethernet connection on the back of the thing, which would have melded well with the LAN I've got setup. =) Ah well. The other thing I learned from poking through the user manual that I was going to ask about was S-Video in/out capabilities; I'm happy to see they provide those connections.
Thanks for your help on clearing up my questions about the service. =)
Well, I assume the feature with being able to 'pause live TV' still works without paying the subscription, right? If so, it has a lot more going for it than my trusty ol' VHS. =) There's also the issue of quality of recorded content; VHS tapes wear out rather quickly (atleast I notice a quality difference after a handful of uses), whereas recording to a HD should never change the quality of the recorded show.
I guess I'm just not interested in a guide, and would rather save $200-300 (if I paid up front) or $20-30/month than dish it out for something I don't really need. ;)
If I'm wrong about any of my assumptions, let me know, otherwise it sounds like a better deal than my VCR currently is. =) Thanks!
I've been toying with the idea of buying a Tivo for about a month now, but I've never had a chance to find out if the monthly fee is required or if you can simply use it for it's recording features (which I imagine is all most people want).. can you shed some light on this? Can the monthly fee crap be avoided without a hack?
Thanks for your opinion on the matter. I think I'll take Security Focus' article on this to be accurate and realistic however, in light of the fact that THEY'VE had a reasonably long life making accurate reports whereas you, whom I've never even HEARD of, appears to just be posturing in a public forum.
Just like ISP (and cable and phone and hosting service) "setup fees", things like this will never get implemented because. Sure, it costs the broadband provider NOTHING to uncap the bandwidth during dead periods, but so few people will actually benefit from it (or complain enough to implement it) that it's not worth their time.
I still picture the little old lady who uses a terminal to enter in all my information at the cable company, then presses an 'Enable Service' button, getting paid $175,000/yr for her services (clearly she makes a lot of money if I can be charged a setup fee that's $20-40!). (PS: Yah, not all places charge setup fees anymore, but those that do have just as little justification for it as companies in the past have.)
I was about to say the same thing-- that just looks so wrong taken out of context.
Shrug, I want to buy a house someday, put away for retirement, etc, etc. The thing about IT is that it's an ever-changing environment, and unlike most other professions that respect senority and age, IT seems to constantly want to replace people with college grads or hell, even high-school grads. (Mainly because it's a well known fact that while older workers CAN keep up with technology, nothing beats a bored teen in his/her parents basement typing away on the next big thing (TM).)
Basically our pay helps make up for the fact that some of us don't last long in the industry, and will likely be replaced by younger (and subsequently, cheaper) labor. So yeah, I'm pissed that my next job may have me making less (I was earning $72k/yr before I was laid off), as I'd like to move forward and continue putting towards the goals I want for my family. Goals I can't reach safely and with confidence on lower and lower salaries (I think everyone would agree with me here-- why pay the minimum payment on a mortgage/lease/etc when you can pay double and get it out of the way quickly; that's peace of mind that even if your job disappears in X years, that house is taken care of).
IMHO, of course.
I agree 100% with what your point is, but I don't think it applies to the discussion at hand-- it's a well known fact that (in the USA atleast) teachers are severly underpaid, understaffed and not provided nearly the level of funding and benefits they rightly deserve. But contrast IT jobs against another field (such as the practice of medicine) and you begin to see that we're really making about what we ought to make, considering OUR work doesn't revolve around saving lives (and yet must involve a certain level of knowledge to perform). I'm speaking specifically about programmers (C, C++, assembler, etc).. I'll agree 100% that network admins are overpaid generally, though for those amazingly talented admins, no amount of money is enough IMHO. =)
Agreed, they're no where to be found on places such as Amazon.com or EBworld.com (or Gamestop.com), which are the big three retailers AFAIK. Smaller online specialty shops may still have them, but I imagine they're asking more than retail given the shortages these days.
Does Intel's desktop cards support PXE (or rather, have the correct support so as not to be lumped in with Netgear's cards (bleh.. when I first got into networking I bought some Netgear cards because I had such great success with their switches/hubs-- NEVER AGAIN; this is the company that accidentally setup their PCI ID (or whatever it is that allows Win9x to autodetect and load drivers for devices) incorrectly as ANOTHER card, thus allowing Windows to load the WRONG driver for the card-- nightmare!)?
I've had really good experiences with Intel NIC's, and in fact have two Pro 100/S Server Adapters and two Pro/1000 T Server Adapters (the forefather to the newer 'server' class models) for use in my systems-- Intel's driver support is absolutely amazing, and incredibly stable/friendly. The fact that they offer up alternate platform drivers is just another bonus.
I'd be happy with an 8 + 2 switch from someone-- i.e. 8 10/100 ports with 2 10/100/1000 ports for my main file sharing boxen (and I imagine these would be a hit at LAN parties, so the server running the game could have a gigabit connect to the switch, allowing most of the 10/100 connections to saturate it with updates (and vice versa)). The trend of hardware makers (Netgear has done this too, FS309T is an 8 port 10/100 with a SINGLE 10/100/1000 copper gigabit port) to make these 8 + 1 solutions just sucks (since you can't really test the faster speed of gigabit with JUST one port).
Of course in a perfect world, I'd agree that 8 port gigabit switches being $200 or less would be about near perfect, especially if higher port counts weren't unrealistically high.
It's a little strange, too.. as of DX 8.0 they've KILLED DirectDraw (the last revision to DirectDraw was in DX 7 with the IDirectDraw7 interface). Things that make little sense? The fact that while the API supports scaling and rotation of 2D images, hardware vendors didn't bother supporting it (yet, with Direct3D you could make a surface, display only that surface's side to the viewer, and perform basically the same operation all day long). Senseless.
Microsoft should have stuck it out with DirectDraw and forced hardware vendors to implement the support in their drivers (as they should have anyways).
You know, it's funny that you make the comment about it being "our culture that they own". I instantly thought of the injustices done to the copyright act, mostly the almost endless extensions given to copyright merely to appease those in power. (Remembering that originally copyright didn't even last as long as the authors lifetime, wasn't it like 17 years?) If copyright really only lasted the same amount of time as when it was enacted, I'd probably be more sympathetic towards the RIAA's plight (though, it would honestly be more convincing if it actually represented artists, and not the labels).
I just thought it was interesting, the "owned culture" you mentioned, when the original copyright act didn't convey ownership of our culture to anyone, except for short fixed periods.
Well shit, you don't even need to be a genius to figure that out. Programming, fundamentally, is all about mathmatics and equations, and when you want to know the answer to 2 + 2, you don't do 4 + -2 to find the answer, you do 2 + 2 (I'm simplifying this, but most people who have even thought about programming should recognize what I'm trying to say). No professor needed, though it might help-- I doubt any Judge could be this dumb as to reach the conclusion that what Blizzard/etc is saying is true.
Of course, I said the same thing about the DeCSS/2600 case, so don't make any bets on my opinion. =)
Dude, if that was the case, I'd be four years old by now.
Wait. My wife said I hung like a four year old, maybe it IS working!
I'm not sure how to take your response.. I was pointing out that travel at the speed of light is just as improbable as time travel, yet because we're all geeks at heart, we all want to BELIEVE it can be done. Reality is great, but when the PERCEIVED reality obscures your vision and imagination, maybe it's time to take a step back and rethink what we THINK is possible? Star Trek isn't useless fantasy, it fires up the imagination of our youth and gives them something to aspire towards-- some of the best inventions of modern times have roots in the fiction of old. Giving yourself imaginary restrictions because of people like Eistein (who make rules that scientists are supposed to follow) isn't just holding yourself back, but humanity as a whole.
No kidding, I've always shaked my head at people that poke fun at those who want to make this possible-- beyond the ethical ramifications, it's a cool idea, one worth exploring. Just because current scientific "laws" say it's not possible (or, very hard to implement) doesn't mean it's not something to pursue; just as we geeks don't poke fun at those trying to break the speed of light (Star Trek, anyone?).
Imagination and innovation should be rewarded, not heckled.
Well, supposedly the largest (EP)ROM you can buy right now is 255 Mbit (note, not megabyte, megabit, so 32 megabytes).. can Linux be squeezed into such a small space and still have functionality to boot/etc? Is there even enough volatile memory available in a GBA to work? I know NetBSD was running on a Dreamcast (though I don't think they've (the developers) have gone much farther than just getting it to boot and run), so it seems reasonable to see atleast that running on the GBA's ARM processor...
Does anyone know the minimum memory/media constraints for Linux though? I've never given it much thought. =)