The rest will avoid stealing if they can. They will however steal if you force them by making the "legitimate" product unusable for them. These are the majority.
Well put. For those who don't get what he said, let me give examples...
You are asked by a bride to put together a slide show, here are my photos and here is the music I want played.. Now try to get permission from the school photographer to scan and project the images on the screen. Now get permission to play the show with a public performance music soundtrack. Now get permission to burn the show to DVD and give them to the bride and extended family. Now get all the permissions (photo, music, songwriter, ASCAP etc) to put the mess on YouTube or MySpace.
Most of us can't do any one of the tasks to do any of the above required steps. We don't ask. We just do the show and hope nobody cares enough to sue. Unless you are a pro-video production company, your chances as an individual of not intentionally breaking someone's copyright is pretty slim. If you took the copyright violations in my last wedding slideshow and charged me $5,000 for each violation, the total would be in the mega millions. There was copying the music (bride provided, I didn't own) copying the photos (lots of school and sports photos done by a studio), public performance of the resulting package, and duplication and distribution for putting it on DVD. The show ran 15 minutes and used 4 songs.
When will the industry learn that outdated copyright is preventing use of the product. There is no outlet of the industries providing anyplace where I can obtain the license to use the products. As a result, I no longer use photographers who won't sign my work for hire contract which gives me the copyright. They either adapt or lose the job to someone who will. Copyright reform is required. It does not recognise how the products are typically used anymore.
Thanks, I should have defined the current caseload or the proposed yet to be named john doe targets.
From;http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=477 It's from 2004 so the numbers are a little low. When you spread out over the various P-P networks, such as Limewire, BearShare, BitTorrent, etc., the 2 million figure is probably a little low. I think we will need to build a few more courthouses soon.
When P2P became popular under Napster, this community was the undisputed king of file-sharing. Its impressive array of mp3 files drew an enormous quantity of individuals to this network, totaling nearly 1.5 million at its peak. However, its glory would not last as the RIAA successfully forced the closure of this network. Permanent indexing servers that were affixed to Napster's home in Silicon Valley were this community's Achilles' heal
The idea is that the bankruptcy process should not leave you as a ward of the state,
If I had this judgement against me, I would be a ward of the state. As such, I would have no need of a job. Slave servitude is not my idea of a life. Ward of the state would be the status. Why work if it nets you nothing? It's time to find a friend to move in with so you don't need an income as any income you could possibly get would be taken. It's time for a cardboard sign and a good intersection. Un-reported income is the only income she has for a while.
but which intellectual property is MS saying open source solutions are infringing on?
Let's make it simple.. Take a lot of code and patent a few ideas. Someone else does the same. In review as your code gets complicated, you may very well have used someone else's IP in your implimentation. Often in a patent dispute regarding code, the countersuit results in a cross license agreement. IBM and others have war chests full of patents to protect FOSS against attacks.
MS hints at an attack as part of the FUD campaign. If they launch a real attack, the code of Windows will be put on the operating table for dissection for infringements. See any problems with this? Just to show an easy to see example, Microsoft was sued over the use of a trash can in Windows. That is why they have a recycle bin. Apple owns the trash can.
Now look at a copy of Ubuntu. It has a little box with a recycle logo in view right on the desktop. They call it the Trash. Who can sue? Apple, Microsoft? If Microsoft sues, guess what happens to tabbed browsing in IE7. This is something showing on the surface. Start digging into functionality and the fight could get ugly for Microsoft. The bigger the code, the bigger the possiblilty of infringment of someone else's pattent. The code doesn't get much bigger than Vista for the desktop.
Can you say HUGE BULLSEYE? The noise is just noise. It is intended to slow down the implimentation and keep obvious duplication of features to a minimum by the competition by raising the question of costly litigation. It's just the ongoing FUD campaign.
Prior art and other discoveries in a court battle could be very damaging to many of Microsoft's patents. If they don't name them, they can't be shot down.
I want my money to be what controls the services, no the advertisers' money.
Remember the free Netzero internet service? Want a phone service to be as reliable and easy to use? I expect this to go the way of free Netzero internet or commercial free cable TV or subscriber magazines free of commercials.
In short, it will devolve into a paid service with advertisements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7abq34mckg it is kind of boring really. Maybe if the battery was already in flame mode it might be more exciting. Hmm, I think I have a video project.. overcharged battery on cotton string over a bucket of water.. Hmmm... Stay tuned.
You do not need to register a copyright in the US to enforce it.
True, however some fair use includes discussion of the material and a copy of the material in whole or in part. The lawyer failed to get him to sign and return a NDA prior to sending the C & D letter. Publishing unsolicited letters and pointing out the flaw may constitute proper protected fair use regardless if it was copyrighted material. If he used the exact verbabe in his C & D letters to his detractors, then the lawyer may have a legal beef with the commerical use of their copyrighted works. I don't think they have a case in its present use.
Where its forced to compete, it loses market share - just look at the embedded, server, and cluster markets.
Another example is the embeded appliance market. There is an excellent chance your NAS, router, printserver, Media streaming server, etc are all running Linux.
Also, they started releasing Betamax copies of movies like Star Wars for $100 (and this is in the 80's, so about $200 today).
Lucas vowed to never release to the video market. He changed his mind about 6 years later when the pirate copies were everywhere. Raises hand.. I had my copy about 4 years before the official release. The companies did what they always do, throw out a few test crumbs to see if the model will work. Having been in the middle of those days, I remember wonderful titles such a Barbarella and How to watch professional football. The stuff worth buying came much later as well as offical rentals. They tried to squash the rental market by the licensing of the content for sale only, not rental. That got overturned thank goodness. I rembember those days...
Napster was just the music clone to the original unauthorised movie rental stores. The official stuff came later. They tried to shut down but had to adapt instead.
The music industry is simply following the video tape path 30 years later.
That would pretty much resrict you to walking or public transport here. --
You also should have the ability to call a moving van. Just because you were born there doesn't mean you have to remain there. I have lived in 3 countries and in one of them there isn't a single stoplight camera anywhere in the country. There are not any parking meters either. I like where I live. I'll be here a while unless they get crazy and I decide it's time to move on.
So that when Windows wants to secretly download an update or send your data back to Microsoft, and you prevent them from doing so at the router level, they'll be able to detect it?
It looks like it. Wow, they are going to detect and blacklist my router simply because the DHCP range it provides is null-routed to keep the leaches away. It works if I set a proper static IP in the permitted range. I wonder if it would ban my router before I could get in and change to a static IP address.
Scalpers won't bid much lower than they think they can resell the tickets for later.
Wanna bet? Scalpers who sell a few tickets at 4X the price can survive just fine with 1/2 the tickets unsold or sold at a loss in the last few minutes. They can get their 4X price if they can corner the market by eliminating the competition. As you have just seen, it is done by buying all the tickets within moments of opening. Now try to find a ticket at less than double the price...
Look on the bright side. It's a sold out concert! This is great for the artists. Maybe the ticket outfit should adjust prices to what the market will bear. It would be a shame if the scalpers bought a bunch of tickets that they couldn't sell.
A good publicity campaign to not use brokers could speed up the process. A good announcement that the tickets have been sold out to scalpers. Due to popular demand, they are now having a second concert next week to meet demand and then a third. Eventualy the fans will see the concert and the scalpers will be left holding the bag at great expense.
Awww shucks.. Thanks for noticing my contribution. Just thinking; what would happen if 2 more people do installations on two machines each next year...
This year we picked up a couple new laptops. Needless to say they count as Vista. There wasn't much else on the shelf pre-configured with the manufacture's warranty. On the other hand, my Core 2 Duo homebuilt and the converted PIII and P4 machines are probably not reported and counted properly.
Just how are they counting the Linux installations. I hope it isn't just from browser User Agent strings, or from sales figures of new hardware. If Linux is such a small showing, then why is VMware stock doing so well? Somebody is interested in it.
Not sure how much our contractors are paid but it's NOT based on the revenue generated by fines, camera placement is determined by traffic volume and accident records
Due to the very real high risk of an accidental photograph and resulting financual damage, as well as the reason the camera is there, a high risk of a real accident, I tend to avoid anyplace using them. I often find them in places with very poor traffic management. The city needs a better traffic engineer to smooth out traffic patterns instead of sending business elsewhere by adding another risk to venturing into the gauntlet. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076070/
One can only hope that they start losing countersuits, finally getting a clue that their outdated business model that screws over artists and consumers has run its course.
Even better is if they run the SCO course. RIAA members claim to own most music. Developers and end users shun using the members. Their revenue stream dries up in litigation costs and loss of artists and customers.
One can only hope... It's already started. How many of the cases going to trial will get put on hold pending the RICO class action, just like Auto Zone and Damier Chrystler waited for the SCO - Novell outcome.
Smart lawyers will ask for the results of the RICO class action and demand the Media Sentry (who has a new name now) evidence be tossed due to improper licensing, lack of jurisdiction, etc.
You may get lucky and get the whole mess tossed out before you go to trial and collect on the class action.
I would hope the class action has the same extreeme teeth as the latest RIAA victory, enough to bankrupt the bastards.
If you're using powered speakers, why not just go digital (say, over fibre) to the speakers?
Three things.. 1.. cost. 2.. Rich Audiophiles think the descreet steps of the D/A conversion will degrade the audio. Selling a digital solution to the tube amp CD rejecting purists is not a way to make money. 3.. Compatibility. Analog RCA connectors is universal. Digital standards between manufactures is anything but. In the pro field, extra boxes add complexity and another point of failure which is often hard to troubleshoot. In broadcast, digital is the only way for long haul program distribution and remote broadcasts. It's noise free and either works or it doesn't. (same for cell phones)
And wires aren't the only option: with ECC and some good buffering/caching, you could probably just stream the digital over WiFi. I haven't tried it but don't see any significant obstacles.
But the physics of speakers is unforgiving. There are plenty of exotic solutions to those problems. If I were an audiophile instead of an engineer, that's the hole I'd probably throw my money into.
Absolutely true. As such this is the part of my system that was the most involved in selecting and is the single most expensive part of my system. I used my speakers to demo why speakers make a big deal in the system. When asked about speakers, I would send them over to my speakers and ask them to knock on the back, sides, and top of them while the system was off, and then have them do the same with any other speakers they find. A speaker box is a wodden drum which the speaker drivers thump. Number 1 rule is find speakers that don't add their own sound. Speakers that sound like knocking on an empty wodden box are to be rejected. Most speakers are made this way because it is cheap, lightweight to reduce shipping costs and easy to sell at lower price points. A good speaker will sound the same as knocking on the cement sidewalk outside.
If you ever run across an old pair of the early standard in quality speakers, the Accoustic Research 3a's, take the time to knock on the back of them.
After the cabinet is properly built, the next item on the list is quality drivers with proper magnets, voice coils, and loose suspension. You don't want the speaker cones themselves to be a cheap drum. Good drivers are rarely put in cheap cabinets and the reverse is true. The quickest way to find good speakers at the local stereo showroom is to shut everything off and start knocking on some cabinets. Quite a few years ago some the passing cabinets was from Yamaha, JBL, Accoustic Research, Polk, and some Kenwood and KLH. Failures included most of the Pioneer (Except the premium line) Optimus, Sony, and most other consumer grade speakers.
These are all much dated as I am.. but gook well built equipment doesn't need to be in next years landfill. If I threw these on Ebay, I am sure I could get my entire investmet back unlike the cheap stuff. If you want to have fun,
Slashdot Mirror
If some of the big groups are going to divest themselves of their overlords, I'll be starting up with the purchasing again.
You didn't have to stop. Just let the buyer beware.
http://www.riaaradar.com/
My most recent purchase was from here.
http://www.riaaradar.com/search.asp?searchtype=ArtistSearch&keyword=Christopher+Peacock
The rest will avoid stealing if they can. They will however steal if you force them by making the "legitimate" product unusable for them. These are the majority.
Well put. For those who don't get what he said, let me give examples...
You are asked by a bride to put together a slide show, here are my photos and here is the music I want played.. Now try to get permission from the school photographer to scan and project the images on the screen. Now get permission to play the show with a public performance music soundtrack. Now get permission to burn the show to DVD and give them to the bride and extended family. Now get all the permissions (photo, music, songwriter, ASCAP etc) to put the mess on YouTube or MySpace.
Most of us can't do any one of the tasks to do any of the above required steps. We don't ask. We just do the show and hope nobody cares enough to sue. Unless you are a pro-video production company, your chances as an individual of not intentionally breaking someone's copyright is pretty slim. If you took the copyright violations in my last wedding slideshow and charged me $5,000 for each violation, the total would be in the mega millions. There was copying the music (bride provided, I didn't own) copying the photos (lots of school and sports photos done by a studio), public performance of the resulting package, and duplication and distribution for putting it on DVD. The show ran 15 minutes and used 4 songs.
When will the industry learn that outdated copyright is preventing use of the product. There is no outlet of the industries providing anyplace where I can obtain the license to use the products. As a result, I no longer use photographers who won't sign my work for hire contract which gives me the copyright. They either adapt or lose the job to someone who will. Copyright reform is required. It does not recognise how the products are typically used anymore.
There, fixed that for ya.
Thanks, I should have defined the current caseload or the proposed yet to be named john doe targets.
From;http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=477
It's from 2004 so the numbers are a little low. When you spread out over the various P-P networks, such as Limewire, BearShare, BitTorrent, etc., the 2 million figure is probably a little low. I think we will need to build a few more courthouses soon.
When P2P became popular under Napster, this community was the undisputed king of file-sharing. Its impressive array of mp3 files drew an enormous quantity of individuals to this network, totaling nearly 1.5 million at its peak. However, its glory would not last as the RIAA successfully forced the closure of this network. Permanent indexing servers that were affixed to Napster's home in Silicon Valley were this community's Achilles' heal
we'd have around five million people per year added to the homeless rolls due to individuals and families declaring bankruptcy.
And the RIAA is working on adding another 20,000 to the list. One down..
Now the RIAA can use this case to turn up the heat in their threat letters.
Unfortunately, the villagers recognise the angry bull elephant in town is thrashing anybody in the path and are responding. Moves are well underway to nuter the elephant http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060503/0411203.shtml to shooting the elephant http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2005/10/oregon-riaa-victim-fights-back-sues.html to getting out of the way and getting out of sight. http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/
The money reward is pocket change.
If that's pocket change, would you mind emptying your pockets her way? For the rest of us, it's house and home.
The idea is that the bankruptcy process should not leave you as a ward of the state,
If I had this judgement against me, I would be a ward of the state. As such, I would have no need of a job. Slave servitude is not my idea of a life. Ward of the state would be the status. Why work if it nets you nothing? It's time to find a friend to move in with so you don't need an income as any income you could possibly get would be taken. It's time for a cardboard sign and a good intersection. Un-reported income is the only income she has for a while.
Thanks for the great clip. One of the best parts is Steve gives his e-mail and says e-mail me! I think I will.
but which intellectual property is MS saying open source solutions are infringing on?
Let's make it simple.. Take a lot of code and patent a few ideas. Someone else does the same. In review as your code gets complicated, you may very well have used someone else's IP in your implimentation. Often in a patent dispute regarding code, the countersuit results in a cross license agreement. IBM and others have war chests full of patents to protect FOSS against attacks.
MS hints at an attack as part of the FUD campaign. If they launch a real attack, the code of Windows will be put on the operating table for dissection for infringements. See any problems with this? Just to show an easy to see example, Microsoft was sued over the use of a trash can in Windows. That is why they have a recycle bin. Apple owns the trash can.
Now look at a copy of Ubuntu. It has a little box with a recycle logo in view right on the desktop. They call it the Trash. Who can sue? Apple, Microsoft? If Microsoft sues, guess what happens to tabbed browsing in IE7. This is something showing on the surface. Start digging into functionality and the fight could get ugly for Microsoft. The bigger the code, the bigger the possiblilty of infringment of someone else's pattent. The code doesn't get much bigger than Vista for the desktop.
Can you say HUGE BULLSEYE? The noise is just noise. It is intended to slow down the implimentation and keep obvious duplication of features to a minimum by the competition by raising the question of costly litigation. It's just the ongoing FUD campaign.
Prior art and other discoveries in a court battle could be very damaging to many of Microsoft's patents. If they don't name them, they can't be shot down.
Here is info that a couple of the consumer media link boxes run Linux.
The MS box is one that uses something else, possibly a version of Windows.
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/04/28/review_linktheater/page10.html
I want my money to be what controls the services, no the advertisers' money.
Remember the free Netzero internet service? Want a phone service to be as reliable and easy to use? I expect this to go the way of free Netzero internet or commercial free cable TV or subscriber magazines free of commercials.
In short, it will devolve into a paid service with advertisements.
Someone decided to find out. Here is the rusult.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7abq34mckg
it is kind of boring really. Maybe if the battery was already in flame mode it might be more exciting. Hmm, I think I have a video project.. overcharged battery on cotton string over a bucket of water.. Hmmm... Stay tuned.
You do not need to register a copyright in the US to enforce it.
True, however some fair use includes discussion of the material and a copy of the material in whole or in part. The lawyer failed to get him to sign and return a NDA prior to sending the C & D letter. Publishing unsolicited letters and pointing out the flaw may constitute proper protected fair use regardless if it was copyrighted material. If he used the exact verbabe in his C & D letters to his detractors, then the lawyer may have a legal beef with the commerical use of their copyrighted works. I don't think they have a case in its present use.
Where its forced to compete, it loses market share - just look at the embedded, server, and cluster markets.
Another example is the embeded appliance market. There is an excellent chance your NAS, router, printserver, Media streaming server, etc are all running Linux.
My Linksys router, my Simple Tech Simpleshare NAS, Hawking Printserver and Netgear Printservers all run Linux. Some of these pieces of hardware have Linux aftermarket firmware, for example my Linksys router is running DD-WRT firmware.
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php?title=DD-WRT_Docu_(EN)
http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/index.php
Also, they started releasing Betamax copies of movies like Star Wars for $100 (and this is in the 80's, so about $200 today).
Lucas vowed to never release to the video market. He changed his mind about 6 years later when the pirate copies were everywhere. Raises hand.. I had my copy about 4 years before the official release. The companies did what they always do, throw out a few test crumbs to see if the model will work. Having been in the middle of those days, I remember wonderful titles such a Barbarella and How to watch professional football. The stuff worth buying came much later as well as offical rentals. They tried to squash the rental market by the licensing of the content for sale only, not rental. That got overturned thank goodness. I rembember those days...
Napster was just the music clone to the original unauthorised movie rental stores. The official stuff came later. They tried to shut down but had to adapt instead.
The music industry is simply following the video tape path 30 years later.
That would pretty much resrict you to walking or public transport here.
--
You also should have the ability to call a moving van. Just because you were born there doesn't mean you have to remain there. I have lived in 3 countries and in one of them there isn't a single stoplight camera anywhere in the country. There are not any parking meters either. I like where I live. I'll be here a while unless they get crazy and I decide it's time to move on.
So that when Windows wants to secretly download an update or send your data back to Microsoft, and you prevent them from doing so at the router level, they'll be able to detect it?
It looks like it. Wow, they are going to detect and blacklist my router simply because the DHCP range it provides is null-routed to keep the leaches away. It works if I set a proper static IP in the permitted range. I wonder if it would ban my router before I could get in and change to a static IP address.
Scalpers won't bid much lower than they think they can resell the tickets for later.
Wanna bet? Scalpers who sell a few tickets at 4X the price can survive just fine with 1/2 the tickets unsold or sold at a loss in the last few minutes. They can get their 4X price if they can corner the market by eliminating the competition. As you have just seen, it is done by buying all the tickets within moments of opening. Now try to find a ticket at less than double the price...
They are nothing more than scalpers.
Look on the bright side. It's a sold out concert! This is great for the artists. Maybe the ticket outfit should adjust prices to what the market will bear. It would be a shame if the scalpers bought a bunch of tickets that they couldn't sell.
A good publicity campaign to not use brokers could speed up the process. A good announcement that the tickets have been sold out to scalpers. Due to popular demand, they are now having a second concert next week to meet demand and then a third. Eventualy the fans will see the concert and the scalpers will be left holding the bag at great expense.
... now we have 2 installations :)
Awww shucks.. Thanks for noticing my contribution. Just thinking; what would happen if 2 more people do installations on two machines each next year...
This year we picked up a couple new laptops. Needless to say they count as Vista. There wasn't much else on the shelf pre-configured with the manufacture's warranty. On the other hand, my Core 2 Duo homebuilt and the converted PIII and P4 machines are probably not reported and counted properly.
Just how are they counting the Linux installations. I hope it isn't just from browser User Agent strings, or from sales figures of new hardware. If Linux is such a small showing, then why is VMware stock doing so well? Somebody is interested in it.
Not sure how much our contractors are paid but it's NOT based on the revenue generated by fines, camera placement is determined by traffic volume and accident records
Due to the very real high risk of an accidental photograph and resulting financual damage, as well as the reason the camera is there, a high risk of a real accident, I tend to avoid anyplace using them. I often find them in places with very poor traffic management. The city needs a better traffic engineer to smooth out traffic patterns instead of sending business elsewhere by adding another risk to venturing into the gauntlet.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076070/
Thanks, I have to hire a proof reader, or post it on slashdot and you will do it for me. Good catch. Here is a brownie point for you.
One can only hope that they start losing countersuits, finally getting a clue that their outdated business model that screws over artists and consumers has run its course.
Even better is if they run the SCO course. RIAA members claim to own most music. Developers and end users shun using the members. Their revenue stream dries up in litigation costs and loss of artists and customers.
One can only hope... It's already started. How many of the cases going to trial will get put on hold pending the RICO class action, just like Auto Zone and Damier Chrystler waited for the SCO - Novell outcome.
Smart lawyers will ask for the results of the RICO class action and demand the Media Sentry (who has a new name now) evidence be tossed due to improper licensing, lack of jurisdiction, etc.
You may get lucky and get the whole mess tossed out before you go to trial and collect on the class action.
I would hope the class action has the same extreeme teeth as the latest RIAA victory, enough to bankrupt the bastards.
If you're using powered speakers, why not just go digital (say, over fibre) to the speakers?
Three things.. 1.. cost. 2.. Rich Audiophiles think the descreet steps of the D/A conversion will degrade the audio. Selling a digital solution to the tube amp CD rejecting purists is not a way to make money. 3.. Compatibility. Analog RCA connectors is universal. Digital standards between manufactures is anything but. In the pro field, extra boxes add complexity and another point of failure which is often hard to troubleshoot. In broadcast, digital is the only way for long haul program distribution and remote broadcasts. It's noise free and either works or it doesn't. (same for cell phones)
And wires aren't the only option: with ECC and some good buffering/caching, you could probably just stream the digital over WiFi. I haven't tried it but don't see any significant obstacles.
Several manufactures are going this route with a package.
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=318
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1137028967848&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
http://www.laptopmag.com/Review/Linksys-Media-Extender-WMCE54AG.htm
But the physics of speakers is unforgiving. There are plenty of exotic solutions to those problems. If I were an audiophile instead of an engineer, that's the hole I'd probably throw my money into.
Absolutely true. As such this is the part of my system that was the most involved in selecting and is the single most expensive part of my system. I used my speakers to demo why speakers make a big deal in the system. When asked about speakers, I would send them over to my speakers and ask them to knock on the back, sides, and top of them while the system was off, and then have them do the same with any other speakers they find. A speaker box is a wodden drum which the speaker drivers thump. Number 1 rule is find speakers that don't add their own sound. Speakers that sound like knocking on an empty wodden box are to be rejected. Most speakers are made this way because it is cheap, lightweight to reduce shipping costs and easy to sell at lower price points. A good speaker will sound the same as knocking on the cement sidewalk outside.
If you ever run across an old pair of the early standard in quality speakers, the Accoustic Research 3a's, take the time to knock on the back of them.
After the cabinet is properly built, the next item on the list is quality drivers with proper magnets, voice coils, and loose suspension. You don't want the speaker cones themselves to be a cheap drum. Good drivers are rarely put in cheap cabinets and the reverse is true. The quickest way to find good speakers at the local stereo showroom is to shut everything off and start knocking on some cabinets. Quite a few years ago some the passing cabinets was from Yamaha, JBL, Accoustic Research, Polk, and some Kenwood and KLH. Failures included most of the Pioneer (Except the premium line) Optimus, Sony, and most other consumer grade speakers.
Personaly I have a pair of Yamaha NS1000's and a pair of AR 3a.
http://www.arsenal.net/speakers/ar/classic/ar-3a/ar3a.htm
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/yamaha/PRD_120821_1594crx.aspx
These are all much dated as I am.. but gook well built equipment doesn't need to be in next years landfill. If I threw these on Ebay, I am sure I could get my entire investmet back unlike the cheap stuff.
If you want to have fun,