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Google Hopes to Disaggregate Carriers with gPhone

Hugh Pickens writes "The New York Times has a look at Google's plan to loosen the carriers' control over their mobile phone networks in an effort to bring the dynamics of the PC-oriented Internet to the mobile Internet hoping that it can beat competitors in an open environment. The Google Phone or gPhone which is expected to be unveiled later this year will not compete with the iPhone but will help Google distribute their online services. Google intends to provide software that will be built into phones sold by many manufacturers and, unlike Microsoft's Windows Mobile, Google is not expected to charge phone makers a licensing fee for their software. Google will make its money brokering ads on the mobile phones and even envisions a free phone service one day supported entirely through ad revenue."

183 comments

  1. Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by r_jensen11 · · Score: 5, Funny

    In order to have any service, you have to be in a gSpot.

  2. First Post ! by randalware · · Score: 0

    I would call someone to brag about it, but my gphone directory has no number in it.

    Yet !

    --
    This is my opinion based on what little I know and understand of the rumors and lies Thanks, Randal
    1. Re:First Post ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I would call someone to brag about it, but my gphone directory has no number in it.

      Wow, you have no friends - who would have guessed it?

  3. But the cell companies like control by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They like control because it provides them a way to sell additional software and services for the phones. They don't want companies like Google stepping in and selling ads. Even on smart phones, Windows Mobile is customized for that purpose. Will Google allow that level of control to the cell companies? I'm guessing no more than they allow other third parties to control their content on the Web.

    1. Re:But the cell companies like control by davidsyes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hopefully DO NO evil will translate into UNDO evil.

      If Google charges reasonable or no fees to the carriers, but then allows the carriers to still make a living with reasonable caps, then the carriers should shut the hell up, since it appears Google won't be charging them a fee, unlike mshaft. Afterall, they, like the smaller of us, have an OPPORTUNITY, not a RIGHT to do business. They need to update their aging business models.

      Meanwhile, Chinese on the mainland (and possibly in Japan, Korea, and a few other places, customers replace their cell phones every 3 or 4 months to the tune of $300 to $400 a pop so as to not look behind the times.) Here, I pick a phone that is not FUGLY, one that I can live with for 2 or even 4 years and not get screwed upgrading a phone which I didn't like in the first place. (I recognized that not ALL upgraders get screwed, or pay a ton to upgrade the phone-- well unless they do it too soon or are trying to upgrade to too expensive a handset.)

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    2. Re:But the cell companies like control by cuby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In Europe the majority of phones can be found unlocked, but they are also more expensive that way. Operators don't seem to care if a phone is unlocked and used in another operator. I don't remember to hear someone complaining about bricked phones... In the end is all about the price of the services they provide, not the devices.

      The companies have the power given by the market regulator.
      I think all consumers should complain more about the market regulator and less about the companies. They always try to maximise their profit. Its their obligation.

      --
      Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
    3. Re:But the cell companies like control by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meanwhile, Chinese on the mainland (and possibly in Japan, Korea, and a few other places, customers replace their cell phones every 3 or 4 months to the tune of $300 to $400 a pop so as to not look behind the times.)

      Wow, I feel old and dumb. It takes me 3 months just to figure out where all the stupid functions are on these UI-from-Hell cell phones (I'm looking at YOU Motorola...). Maybe they just hang them on a cord or something and have them bleep randomly. Maybe the Oriental mind can fathom the bizarre, convoluted thinking that goes into the menu structure of modern phones. Maybe I should get new glasses.

      (Goes back to reading his email).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:But the cell companies like control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My gf's got the new-in-the-uk Motorola RAZR2, runs Linux, terrible menu.
      Myself, a Nokia fan for years, the 6300 is genius, even my mum got one and loves it.

    5. Re:But the cell companies like control by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, Chinese on the mainland (and possibly in Japan, Korea, and a few other places, customers replace their cell phones every 3 or 4 months to the tune of $300 to $400 a pop so as to not look behind the times.)

      Yeah, we have morons who do that here as well. You get them in every country, and despite what you want to believe they are no the norm.

  4. Um, okay by jtroutman · · Score: 5, Informative

    FTFA: Industry analysts say that Google, which has little experience with complex hardware, faces significant challenges. I'd have to disagree. Now, I'm not saying that the two technologies have any overlap, but that the statement that Google "has little experience with complex hardware" seems a little disingenuous.

    --
    I stole this sig from a more creative user.
    1. Re:Um, okay by pedantic+bore · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a big difference between putting a bunch of beige boxes into a rack and designing a piece of hardware. Google has experience with using hardware that was designed and built by other folks, but they don't do hardware.

      --
      Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    2. Re:Um, okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a huge difference between designing a network topology (even with the impressive performance and scalability that Google has achieved) and designing the actual devices used. One of the most impressive parts of what Google has done is that they've managed to put together quite possibly the most scalable network topology ever using predominantly commodity hardware.

      That said, from the description of this project, it sounds like they don't intend to design and build their own phone. It sounds like they simply want to work with existing phone manufacturers and only plan on writing the software that will run on the phones produced by those manufacturers. That should be well within their core competency.

  5. ads by McGiraf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, and ads.

    And then some ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, and aslo ads and ads.

    I think there is enough ads already, I'm starting to hate Google.

    look an ad in my sig!

    heurg!

    1. Re:ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't like Google's vision of a world paid for by Ads either. Because we'll end up paying for services one way or another, through the marketing budgets of the products we buy if not directly. The other consequence of this is that we never feel ownership of anything because we don't pay for it and we get a 'well you can have a refund, what do you want for nothing' if we complain about the quality of a service. Ads are damned intrusive (by their design), annoying and ugly!

    2. Re:ads by caswelmo · · Score: 1

      While I'd agree that dealing with ads is annoying, I think there may be another way to look at it. Companies will always seek a way to reach their customers. This can take many different forms, but they all fall under the guise of "advertisement". And make no mistake, they will make every effort to reach you. If it's not on your TV, it will be via email. If not via email, it will be on your phone. If it's not on your phone, it will be... You get the point.

      So, it would seem that short of living in the woods we'll have to deal with ads in one form or another. Granted, some are less intrusive than others, but they will always be around and will always be looking for new ways to "intrude" into our consciousness. We might as well get something free for dealing with them. Right?...

    3. Re:ads by moosesocks · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're right. Ads suck. I'll agree with that.

      However, AT&T and Verizon's wireless arm sit somewhere among the RIAA, MPAA, and the guy who designed the packaging on jewel cases in terms of the amount of respect/patience I have for them.

      If we can get a carrier that doesn't treat its customers like dirt, I think the ads are a decent tradeoff. Even better, if the carriers are indeed disaggregated, we'll wind up with a system like Europe, where the cost of the handset is often *completely* separated from the plan. The Mobile networks provide the airspace and the bandwidth -- that's it. Pricing schemes tend to be mostly straightforward.

      I pay 10p ($0.20 USD) GBP per minute outgoing, and 5p ($0.10 USD) per SMS outgoing on my UK mobile. No monthly fees or bizarre restrictions like you see on US prepay carriers. If you're a heavy user, a prepay scheme might cost you a bit more money, but for someone like myself who rarely gabs on for more than a minute or two, it's much cheaper than what I used to pay in the US. (OT: This is more or less the *only* instance under which something is cheaper in the UK than the US. This graph should scare the pants off of you if you're an American.)

      I didn't mind paying for my handset either. I needed a basic but durable handset, and the fine forces of capitalism indeed produced such a device at a reasonable cost. I'm pretty sure that all Verizon users can testify that their entire line of devices is absolute garbage.

      So... bring it on. I welcome some 'real' competition in the industry.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    4. Re:ads by walt-sjc · · Score: 1

      Sure, companies can TRY to reach me various ways, but the more they invade, the more turned off I am, and the more I resort to technological means to block these ads - Tivo, Adblock, Spamassassin, etc. I would not use an ad supported phone. Phones are slow enough now even in 3G areas, and screen real-estate is too precious to deal with ads without seriously degrading usability.

      I'm sure some pre-teens will fall for free ad-supported phones, but nobody with any money at all is going to put up with it.

    5. Re:ads by SteinzoTheGreat · · Score: 1

      Well . . . ads, eggs, sausage, and ads hasn't got many ads in it . . .

      --
      How very self-centered some people can be; they think of themselves, instead of me! - L. Baird
  6. The users will pay by AlbertEin · · Score: 1

    So, the users are the ones who are going to pay for it, every Ad showed to the user will be paid by them (Your phone will need to download them).

    I've never thought of paying to see Ads.

    1. Re:The users will pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But does it run AdBlockPlus?

    2. Re:The users will pay by AlbertEin · · Score: 1

      What about linux?

    3. Re:The users will pay by Paul_Hindt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh...you pay to see ads every time you watch cable or satellite television...maybe you never thought about that.

    4. Re:The users will pay by qzak · · Score: 1

      So...you've never had cable TV then?

  7. Sounds Good! by HartDev · · Score: 0

    Although I hate, loathe and despise ads and marketing, it is not like it is gonna go away, so if I get free phone service that would be fantastic! I also just want openmoko to dominate the cell phone software market, this will push things towards less control from carriers and more control to the software and hardware underbelly of the whole cell phone market. Good job Google, OpenMoko, and the iPhone hackers that makes things much better for everyone!

    --
    To see a few of my Android apps goto: www.hartwired.com
  8. It's cool that Google won't be charging for it by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because I'm sure the manufacturers will pass the savings on directly to you and me.

    1. Re:It's cool that Google won't be charging for it by Cuppa+'Joe'+Black · · Score: 1

      Ha. Mod parent funny.

      --
      Technically, murder-suicide does not violate the golden rule.
    2. Re:It's cool that Google won't be charging for it by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Oh please!

      I remember when DVD players launched at $600 and then hovered around $400. Today, you can get a Coby brand DVD player for $29.99 MSRP. Cheaper yet, I could purchase a DVD player for just under 5 US dollars while in Shanghai.

      Besides, why shouldn't the early adopter manufactures not make a profit? I know I'd milk this market for as long as I could...until the Chinese come in and undercutted me.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:It's cool that Google won't be charging for it by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 1

      That's fine. And if the phone is free (without a lengthy service contract), then cool. But ads are not forced upon you with your $5 DVD player. It is cheap because the technology is less expensive these days not because it is being subsidized. Though, you could argue that sweatshops are a type of subsidy.

      Either way, I can guarantee you that you will never walk into a cell phone store and receive any type of discount due to Google's magnanimity.

    4. Re:It's cool that Google won't be charging for it by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

      Google is not expected to charge phone makers a licensing fee for their software. Google will make its money brokering ads on the mobile phones

      &

      Because I'm sure the manufacturers will pass the savings on directly to you and me.

      Even if they would, I'd rather pay the $10, or $20 more than watch ads. On a tiny mobile screen, you lose from ads in 4 ways:

      1. Extra time required to download the ad (we're not all on the latest 3G).
      2. Extra fees for the extra bandwidth from the ads (unlimited data plans are rare outside US, and the cost per MB is insane).
      3. Limited screen space because there's actually some ad sitting there, I lose productivity since I have less screen space.
      4. Ads distract me from doing my work.

      All in all, Google, I know all you have is hammer, but we're not all nails.

      I'll pass on the gPhone.

  9. Just curious by jtroutman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What is the possibility that Google gets the 700MHz spectrum and then uses it for their own phone service? I have no idea if that's even feasible, but if so, it would bypass any problem they may have with the current carriers not using their software because they see them as competition for advertising dollars.

    --
    I stole this sig from a more creative user.
    1. Re:Just curious by GlassHeart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They'll need more than the rights to the spectrum. They'll need to set up antennas everywhere, which includes both the broadcast equipment, tower, as well as renting/buying the space occupied by the towers. If memory serves, an unobstructed GSM tower covers about a 2-mi radius (say, 12.5 sq mi), so covering the most populous tenth of the (nearly 3 million sq mi total) lower 48 states would involve 24,000 towers. CDMA can be configured to cover a wider area, but this should give you an idea of the scope of the project.

      I hate carriers at least as much as anybody else, but after Google makes that kind of investment they may find it hard not to be Evil with their pricing.

    2. Re:Just curious by EllisDees · · Score: 1

      700 mhz has a considerably longer range than 2 miles...

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
    3. Re:Just curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure it can. But can the battery and antenna in your phone transmit a strong enough signal that it can still be separated from the noise after it's gone two miles?

    4. Re:Just curious by GlassHeart · · Score: 1

      First of all, the AC who responded to you is quite correct. Power constraints on the mobile phone will limit its maximum distance from a tower. Worse, a mobile phone would have an approximately omnidirectional antenna, which makes it even harder on battery life. But also just as importantly, you don't want a mobile phone that transmits a lot of power right next to your brain even if the battery technology was available.

      Secondly, city dwellers are some of the most important market segments, and you definitely should not expect to cover 2 miles per tower with many tall concrete structures in the way. These structures interfere significantly with your transmissions.

    5. Re:Just curious by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Transmission distance is a function of both carrier wavelength and power. The longer the carrier wavelength, the lower the power. 700MHz light has a fair bit longer wavelength than a lot of mobile phone bands; it was chosen for TV because it travelled so well.

      Unfortunately, the data bandwidth is a function of the frequency, and so a lower frequency means less data, which means more towers to get the same service to as many people.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Just curious by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      whats the possibility they use many billions on something very high risk, entirely just google service, with just googles phones(it would be usa only, little intrest from any other manufacturers)? it wouldn't bypass the problem that the carriers still exist to compete with phones against them.

      some os frontend for some htc/whatever hardware would make much more sense, or improved mobile sites and improved mobile support for gmail, google apps etc. you can already get gmail and google through j2me apps on just about any phone on the market( opera mini for googling and browsing, googles j2me app for gmail).

      or some app family like yahoo has for mobiles.

      anyhow, i'd find a google laptop even more probable than a google cell-network..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    7. Re:Just curious by PJ1216 · · Score: 1

      whats the possibility they use many billions on something very high risk, entirely just google service, with just googles phones(it would be usa only, little intrest from any other manufacturers)?
      i can answer that. the possibility is zero since they're the ones trying to get the frequency to carry all those rules along with it, such as making it open, use any type of phone, license it to anybody who can pay the price (and the price has to be the same for everybody), etc. they said they wouldn't even bid unless it was open. so i highly doubt they'd bid on it and make it entirely google only. they'll provide google service over it, but others will want to license it. and if they do, they couldn't restrict what phones get used on it. so yea, even if they just OWN the frequency, it can cause change, let alone offering people a service that isn't restricted by contracts, etc. if they make it so you choose to watch ads and it ads credits to your phone or time or has a money equivalent value or package1 - watch x ads this month or it will be disabled next month, then maybe it won't be so bad. it stops it from being too intrusive because you choose when to watch it.
  10. It'll be alright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As soon as someone developes AdBlock for the gPhone

  11. obligatory by User+956 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The New York Times has a look at Google's plan to loosen the carriers' control over their mobile phone networks

    ph0wned!

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
  12. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wow, that gets funnier every time someone posts it.

  13. Single Page by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/08/business/media/08googlephone.html?pagewanted=all

    My basic issue is this: How much cheaper is an ad-subsidized gPhone going to be in comparison to some relatively nice pre-paid phone?

    But if Google-powered phones prove to be a hit with consumers, other carriers may feel pressure to follow suit, said Richard Doherty, director for the Envisioneering Group, a consulting firm. Why? You could replace "Google-powered" with just about anything and the statement would hold true.

    Other than a low(er) price... a Google Phone isn't magically going to bring the internet to the masses. Are Google ads going to subsidize a 3G network? Even the iPhone isn't anything special unless you're within range of a wifi network and/or are paying AT&T $2,000 for their service plan over the next two years.

    As far as I noticed, TFA never comes out and says what a gPhone is going to bring to the market that will win over consumers. Brand name? Features? Function?
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Single Page by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As far as I noticed, TFA never comes out and says what a gPhone is going to bring to the market that will win over consumers. Brand name? Features? Function?

      I don't know about TFA, because like most people around here I didn't bother to read it, but I do have a bit of a background in the wireless industry. And ANYTHING that ANYBODY can do to loosen the tight grip that the carriers have on our collective balls is a good thing.

      Right now the carriers control what types of phones you can use on their networks. They want to lock out anything that might compete with their own content offerings. It's bad enough that Microsoft can make all their own services (MSN Search and IE come to mind) the default in Windows. Now imagine if they made it outright impossible to install other software or content that didn't come from them. Because that's what the cellular carriers do!

      There is no reason that there shouldn't be a wireless version of carterfone. This document provides an interesting read into the current state of affairs. Consumers on Verizon and Sprint are screwed. AT&T and T-Mobile customers fare a little better, since they always have the option of buying unbranded/unlocked GSM phones. But even at that the carriers are attempting to impose artificial limitations -- like T-Mobile's claim (false, but they still sell this to the unwashed masses) that MyFaves won't work on a non-MyFaves phone.

      All the power to Google if they can open up this market just a little bit. I won't ever be owning an ad-sponsored phone. But maybe they will bring something similar to carterfone to the market. They certainly have nothing to fear from the carriers, unlike the equipment makers (Mororola, Nokia, etc) that are afraid to speak up for fear of losing that carriers business.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Single Page by cuby · · Score: 1

      "How much cheaper is an ad-subsidized gPhone going to be in comparison to some relatively nice pre-paid phone?"

      The real money in telecommunications is in paid services (cals, data, sms...).
      If the ads are not intrusive (like an sms bombardment), they may increase the revenue (hence a cheaper device), but I think they are a complement for the main business plane... Google is already to much exposed to the advertising market. I think they want to diversify their revenue.

      --
      Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
  14. And by einhverfr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mnay people, like myself, don't want ad-supported cell service. I want my money to be what controls the services, no the advertisers' money.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:And by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hello, 911

      "... one moment please. You have dialed 911. gPhone will place your call shortly. Please listen to these 3 contextual ads."

      "Hi, need a lawyer? Call 1-900-SUX-2-B-U!"

      "Need an ambulance in a hurry? Call 123-456-7890"

      "Remember Forest Lawn - when it comes time to go to that big sleep."

      "Thak you for waiting. gPhone will now connect you to 911"

      "This is 911 emergency services. Your call is important to us. In the meantime, plase listen to these contextual ads ..."

    2. Re:And by ceejayoz · · Score: 4, Funny

      And are you under the impression that your money has the slightest effect on the way the cell phone companies operate?

    3. Re:And by dwater · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was thinking the same thing, yet here I am using free Slashdot (I am fairly sure I've seen notices that I can pay for it if I want - does that get rid of the ads?).

      However, I have nothing against an ad supported network, so long as I can still choose to pay (instead of ads) if I want to.

      --
      Max.
    4. Re:And by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny


      but why?

      "hey dave! let's go get some burgers!" ... bennegans has the best burgers in town and just around the corner....

      "Holy crap what was that?" ... feeling down, the holy saviour church can help you.....

      "Sorry, I get free cellphone through google, it plays ad's based on keywords from the last thing you said" ... verizon cellphones dont annoy you with advertisments every 12 seconds try one today....

      "this sucks!" ... lonely? looking for a good time? www.sexpots.com is your source for low prices in companionship...

      Oh yeah, I can see an ad supported free cellphone working just fine.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:And by JimDaGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I want my money to be what controls the services
      But that is not often the case when a few large companies control everything. I recently got a mobile phone for my wife and I. After much searching, there was not much that differentiates the different companies. You will get basically the same features (depending on what you spend) and you will pay similar prices. All the big carriers I went to wanted to lock me in to a 2 year contract. All of them had annoying sales people that tried to sell me the latest whizz-bang phone. And all of them are way over priced IMO. The only thing I found my money could give me a choice over was if I wanted to pay a lot of cash for a phone to take crappy pictures or to listen to some songs, or maybe look at a web page in a crappy browser.

      In looking at options to get the lowest monthly cost, well there just weren't many options to be truthful. One option was 700 shared family minutes for $79 USD/month or 1,400 shared family minutes for $89 USD/month. WTF? If I can get 1,400 minutes for $90/month, why can't I get 700 minutes for $45/month?

      When it comes to the mobile market, my money doesn't seem to control much of anything.
      --
      General, you are listening to a machine! Do the world a favor and don't act like one.
    6. Re:And by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it does make a difference. If T-Mobile meets my needs better, am I going to go with them or with AT&T? What about Verizon? Yes, these companies have to compete for our money, so yes, it does make a difference. That was the whole reason for number portability.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    7. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Part of that $79/month is fees and basic charges whether or not you use _any_ minutes. The question is, why can't you get a cell phone with 0 minutes, for $69/month, and use it to only talk to each other (free mobile to mobile)?

    8. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      does that get rid of the ads?
      yes. and so does adblock, except you don't have to help pay for Zonk's psychotherapy sessions.
    9. Re:And by spud603 · · Score: 1

      It seems more likely that this this will go the way of cable television: there are copious ads and you pay through the nose for features you don't want.

    10. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, it does make a difference. If T-Mobile meets my needs better, am I going to go with them or with AT&T? What about Verizon? Yes, these companies have to compete for our money, so yes, it does make a difference. That was the whole reason for number portability. Not quote. For prepaid you have a point, but you still have to keep in mind the cost of the phones as most are locked to a certain carrier. For service plan, most require a multi-year contract which really takes competition out of the equation.

      If phones were not tied to providers, providers didn't require contracts, and everything wasn't controlled by a handful of companies, I'd completely agree with you about letting competition sort it out.
    11. Re:And by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      For service plan, most require a multi-year contract which really takes competition out of the equation. Only for a while. The question is do you want the carriers to care if *you* pay them or care if the advertisers pay them? That is the question.

      Maybe the gphone will be good in opening up competition, but I won't go for ad-supported cell service.
      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    12. Re:And by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Did you see those people around the Goat Sea earlier?"
      ...
      "MY EARS!"

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    13. Re:And by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      Softbank in Japan does this- they call it the White Plan, and it's like 990yen/month for nothing but unlimited M2M.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    14. Re:And by omeomi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All the big carriers I went to wanted to lock me in to a 2 year contract.

      Technically speaking, you can usually choose to buy the phone outright (rather than at a huge discount) and forgo the contract. Have to agree that cell service is overpriced, though.

    15. Re:And by Torontoman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Funny though how people think this will flop when in reality Google seems to make gold out of anything and do it in a 'non invasive' way. Gmail is great and google is the leading search engine. Sure there are a few people freaking about rights and whatnot but they search about those rights violations on google.

      I'm betting they'll do this, do it right, and revolutionize the cell phone - putting the crap old guard out of business or at least change them into something better. I for one would welcome free calls on my cell phone if they did it in such a non invasive way - so that it was as nice to use as Gmail.

      Torontoman.

    16. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a disgrace. It's called a "White Plan" but is only used by yellow chinks. Dumbass. Chink=Chinese. There are japs we're talking about
    17. Re:And by ceejayoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Compete?

      There are a couple vendors. They all charge roughly the same prices, offer roughly the same services, probably share customer support reps in some developing nation, own the same Congressmen, they're all charging us the 'regulatory fee reclamation' shit, etc.

      I've had four different cell phone providers. There's little difference.

      Google may make their money off advertisers, but they've proven themselves far more responsible, ethically minded, and consumer responsive than any of the cell phone companies. Sure, the advertisers pay their bills, but those advertisers won't exist without us consumers using their products and thus providing advertisers with eyeballs to purchase.

    18. Re:And by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

      hehe, although you are rated funny, I think you are being serious.  All I can say is anything that breaks the oligopoly in cell phone service will be a great thing.  I'm tired of hearing how they are raking in billions selling ring tones for a buck or two each.  Let's break that down:

      I-tunes song: 0.95 cents for the whole damn song
      Ring tone from your carrier: 1-2 bucks for a snippet, but the prviledge of playing it on your phone as the ring tone.

      And don't get me started about .15 cents for text messaging.  Exactly 1 second of voice is about the same as some 1000 odd text messages--They SAVE money when we use those things.  Fucking insane.  This is the sign of an oligopoly or monopoly--crazy prices.

    19. Re:And by Technician · · Score: 1

      I want my money to be what controls the services, no the advertisers' money.

      Remember the free Netzero internet service? Want a phone service to be as reliable and easy to use? I expect this to go the way of free Netzero internet or commercial free cable TV or subscriber magazines free of commercials.

      In short, it will devolve into a paid service with advertisements.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    20. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and this happened because they compete. That said, some have better coverage (verizon) others have better deals (t-mobile) and some try to get exclusive access to tech (Iphone At&T). Your money is the only thing they're interested in. Just because they are technologically bound to the same sort of prices, developed over time, does not mean they are competing for your money.

    21. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that's great and all but you're still paying AT&T,SBC,Bell,whoever_they_re-aquired_today... because at some point the call will go over telephone cable and in most cases the leans on the land were given solely to Bell/AT&T and AT&T still charges whoever your phone company is for using them -- that cost is past off to you, the customers.

      When there is a monopoly, there is no competition.

    22. Re:And by Damarkus13 · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget that txt messages don't need to be sent real-time either. They can be delayed by up to a 30 seconds and most people wouldn't even notice. Try having 5 seconds of latency (hell, one second of latency) in a phone conversation. I would throw the damned phone at a wall. I really can't believe the scam that is per message charging.

    23. Re:And by jeephistorian · · Score: 1

      The Headphones!!! They Do Nothing!!!

      sorry.

      --
      Huh?
    24. Re:And by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

      Damn, that's a good point.

  15. Will not compete? by flaming+error · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > The Google Phone ... will not compete with the iPhone

    I don't really think they expect me to carry a gPhone in one pocket and an iPhone in another.

    1. Re:Will not compete? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey, baby - you wanna see my hPhone?

    2. Re:Will not compete? by andrewcharles420 · · Score: 2, Funny

      > The Google Phone ... will not compete with the iPhone

      I don't really think they expect me to carry a gPhone in one pocket and an iPhone in another.


      I'm sure they'll keep this in mind when designing the new combination giPhone... now where should one put that? ;)
    3. Re:Will not compete? by Belacgod · · Score: 2, Funny
      I'm sure they'll keep this in mind when designing the new combination giPhone... now where should one put that? ;)

      Iraq?

    4. Re:Will not compete? by garbletext · · Score: 1

      "It was a million to one shot, Doc. Million to one."

    5. Re:Will not compete? by dmadzak · · Score: 1

      You are right to the extent that they are both phones, but Google doesn't plan to compete in the multimedia phone market. I don't see them stressing the fact that it can play audio or video unless I am missing something. It may have those features, but it isn't a selling point from what I can tell.

      At the end of the day they are competitors in some respect and probably will pitted against each other shortly, but it doesn't sound like Google will be marketing, "please turn in your iPhone because the gPhone is better".

      --
      Spelling and grammar mistakes specifically left in to give the grammar and spelling nazis a meaning to their life.
    6. Re:Will not compete? by g0at · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they'll keep this in mind when designing the new combination giPhone... now where should one put that? ;) swallow it, of course. :)

      b

    7. Re:Will not compete? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      They mean that they are aimed at different markets. If you are the kind of person who values UI at the expense of openness, you will get an iPhone. If you value cheap above all else, you will get a gPhone. If you value user experience and openness, you're screwed.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Will not compete? by MasterOfCeremonies · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they'll keep this in mind when designing the new combination giPhone... now where should one put that? ;)
      Iraq?

      Up his sleavies.

  16. Not Competition? by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How do they figure that?

    its a phone, it has applications, it has internet access.. Of course its competition..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Not Competition? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      its a phone, it has applications, it has internet access.. Of course its competition..


      One word: market segmentation.

      The "more money than brains" set get iPhones. The skinflints, tightwads, misers and niggards (look it up you idiot) get gPhones.

  17. Google's Experience by jeremiahbell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From Article - "Running a Web site and a search engine is one thing," said Mr. Weide of IDC. "But developing a phone is a whole different game. It will not be easy for them."

    They claim that Google will have hard time because it doesn't have the experience dealing with complex hardware. Sure, maintaining what is probably the world's largest search engine isn't complex. And as far as the handset hardware goes they won't be the first to port the kernel to a mobile platform, and someone else may have already done the work for them. Communication is Google's business, and they have spent a ton of R&D time and money to prepare and launch their product. I bet they are further along than IDC thinks.

    --
    "Where have all the good people gone?" - Jack Johnson
    1. Re:Google's Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Building and maintaining a server farm isn't child's play, but hardware in customers' hands is an entirely different beast. You can't just use cheap components, decommission faulty hardware and replace in bulk like Google does with bad servers. Besides, if you've ever dealt with Google "customer service", you know that it practically doesn't exist. Google only has public relations and automated procedures. A company which believes that strongly in automation is probably not a good candidate to develop end user hardware with, because that requires a deep understanding of requirements that arise from making something that can not be updated in the field.

    2. Re:Google's Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm fairly certain that google has funds and could hire the best engineers/etc. or steal them from competitors to do whatever they want to do...:-)

    3. Re:Google's Experience by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly certain that google has funds and could hire the best engineers/etc. or steal them from competitors to do whatever they want to do...:-)

      Yes, Google does have funds. But guess what? Microsoft has considerably more.

      You're assuming that if you somehow just get a bunch of smart engineers on the job, the solution will happen. Nope, it doesn't work that way in real life.

  18. Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by Animats · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Hey, let's have dinner tonight"

    (Robotic Google voice) "May we suggest ... Chez Panisse ... which is 2.4 miles from your present location, Bill, and 1.3 miles from your present location, Karen. Reservations are available at 7:30 and 7:45 PM. A reservation has been made for you at 7:30. Bill, please turn right on Western. Karen, go 1 mile straight ahead to Central, then turn left on Western. Chez Panisse is at 1540 Western. Have a nice dinner, and thank you for choosing Google for your phone service."

    1. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by davidsyes · · Score: 2, Informative

      And then someone hacks, umm, cracks the database and steers them both to Chez Poosay, right in the middle of a police raid on massage parlors...

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    2. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we know how well voice recognition software works, just wait till some bible belt folks mention cornpone.

      When are these advertising idiots going to realize that there was a reason the do not call list was set up? They would have to pay me and pay me a lot to take one of these phones and then it would be locked away somewhere with the ringer off.

    3. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by tomhudson · · Score: 1, Funny

      "I worked like a slave today ..."

      gPhone ad: "Are you looking for slaves? Say 'yes' to search for slaves in your area."

      "I hate this gPhone!"

      gPhone: "Thank you for your user input. We have subscribed you to 5000 email lists for gay pr0n, and sent out invites in your name to everyone in your phone book, as well as everyone in THEIR phone books. Have a nice day."

    4. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by grcumb · · Score: 1

      "Hey, let's have dinner tonight"

      (Robotic Google voice) "May we suggest ... Chez Panisse ... which is 2.4 miles from your present location, Bill, and 1.3 miles from your present location, Karen. Reservations are available at 7:30 and 7:45 PM. A reservation has been made for you at 7:30. Bill, please turn right on Western. Karen, go 1 mile straight ahead to Central, then turn left on Western. Chez Panisse is at 1540 Western. Have a nice dinner, and thank you for choosing Google for your phone service."

      Okay, it's funny, and it's a little scary. But consider that, in a gift economy, this kind of interaction might actually prove beneficial. Imagine, for example, if Chez Panisse actually turned out to be the right place for a date? Bruce Sterling wrote a charming story about this, titled Maneki Neko. While the spectre of Big Brother and Total Information Awareness looms large over any information-based society, we sometimes lose sight of the fact that this power can be used for good as well.

      They key to this is to understand one of the second-level effects of the adage 'Information is Power'. As long as nobody gets a stranglehold on the information, it can be used to mitigate and even subvert the efforts of governments and corporate entities to control the message, to tell us how we feel. To the extent that Google is willing to do help with this, I support them.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    5. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 1


      "Hey, let's have dinner tonight"

      (Robotic Google voice) "May we suggest ... Chez Panisse ...


      Reservations at Chez Panisse without waiting 6 months? Unheard of.

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    6. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by benedict · · Score: 1

      Wrong. They start taking reservations for date X at date X - 1 month.

      Oh, and to the first poster: it's on Shattuck Ave.

      --
      Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
    7. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by JustinRLynn · · Score: 1

      "Through the patented gMagic process, we turn forward time for you. Never wait for anything, including your massively detailed search results, again!"

    8. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by lelitsch · · Score: 2, Funny

      If the GPhone can get a same day reservation for Chez Panisse, I am so buying it.

    9. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, that was on the other side of campus. Got shut down when the wife of a Port of Oakland guy caught on. Damn.

    10. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by naoursla · · Score: 1

      Google analyzed your phone use, web use, email use, workout use, eating schedule, sleeping schedule and everything else. It simulates you with uncanny accuracy (partly because it makes such great suggestions that you always follow.)

      It made the reservations to Chez Panisse six months ago in anticipation of this call.

      Geez... noobs...

      (wait a minute... is this real? Or is it GoogleSim?)

    11. Re:Not just ads. Ads tailored to your conversation by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      If it's anything like the search engine, if you say slaves it will reply with 'Find Slaves! Buy Slaves on eBay now!'

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  19. Re:Google's Experience (replying to myself) by jeremiahbell · · Score: 1

    I was being sarcastic when I said maintaining the world's largest search engine isn't complex.

    --
    "Where have all the good people gone?" - Jack Johnson
  20. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:

    "Google may be responsible for the gPhone," said Karsten Weide, an analyst with IDC "But they are not in charge of gUndam."

  21. I don't see this happening in the US by doit3d · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really do not think their apps will be integrated into phones sold in the US for the major carriers. The manufacturers will have it in the original OS install of the phone probably, but let us not forget that when US carriers purchase the phones to sell for their network, they tend to heavily modify the phones OS. Generally all useful features installed on a phone that are free to use are disabled, or erased (Motorola phones, and Verizon policies come to mind). The US carriers want you to pay them more money, when it comes to having something useful (fully functional Bluetooth, easy transfer of files, ect). They like playing the "nickel and dime you to death" game. This is why phone modding is so popular. People want the functionality back in the phones, that the carriers removed.

    In European markets, as well as others outside of North America, however, might see a great benefit here.

    --
    "This is America... where the will of the few outweigh the outrage of the many..." - Unknown
    1. Re:I don't see this happening in the US by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

      In European markets, as well as others outside of North America, however, might see a great benefit here.

      As a European, I gotta tell you we don't have some special love for ads on our phones either. I've changed two service providers since the previous ones would demand sending me SMS for various promotions and lotteries I couldn't care less about.

      Google is milking the ads idea horribly and starting to piss off people.

      They better come up with a new trick if they want to expand outside the desktop search business.

    2. Re:I don't see this happening in the US by Crazy+Man+on+Fire · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hate to tell you this, but they're not in the search business they're in the advertising business.

  22. Let me be the first to say... by michaelmalak · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Google's agenda is to disaggregate carriers," said Dan Olschwang, the chief executive of JumpTap, a start-up that provides search and advertising services to several mobile phone operators.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  23. Why Would Google Tip its Hand? by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It occurs to me that it is not in the best interest of Google to tip its hand prematurely on this announcement, before the spectrum auction of 700 MHz, in which Google is a bidder, is complete. If this is true then Verizon, Sprint/Nextel, and AT&T will know that Google represents a serious competitive threat and must therefore be outbid in the spectrum auction at any price so that Google can be denied the spectrum that it needs to roll out the competing services. It should be abundantly clear to everyone that the type of services that Google wants to offer in the mobile space are anathema to the entrenched providers who are used to the revenue stream from nickle and dimming practices that are enabled by absolute control of their networks. The existing carriers will certainly not offer the Google mobile OS on terms that Google would accept (Google wants freedom whereas the telcos want lock-in). This upcoming spectrum auction may prove to be very interesting indeed.

    1. Re:Why Would Google Tip its Hand? by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're assuming google actually wants to acquire the spectrum, rather than make the carriers do a repeat of the dark fibre build-out.

      1. get competing cell-phone carriers to overbid on spectrum
      2. now that carrier has spectrum, they build out the infrastructure at great expense
      3. oops - not enough revenue coming in - google buys out their infrastructure and license for cents on the dollar
    2. Re:Why Would Google Tip its Hand? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which would serve those fuckers right. I hope it is a scam on Google's part.

      John

    3. Re:Why Would Google Tip its Hand? by kcbrown · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're assuming google actually wants to acquire the spectrum, rather than make the carriers do a repeat of the dark fibre build-out.
      1. get competing cell-phone carriers to overbid on spectrum
      2. now that carrier has spectrum, they build out the infrastructure at great expense
      3. oops - not enough revenue coming in - google buys out their infrastructure and license for cents on the dollar

      Uh, your item number 2 is suspect. Who says the carriers are actually going to build out anything? And even if they do, what makes you think they'll do it at their expense rather than getting government "incentives" to do so (not that getting incentives has anything to do with actually building the infrastructure).

      What's most likely, I think, is that one of the major carriers will acquire the spectrum and then they'll either sit on it or they'll gradually use it for their own purposes. What they won't do is any sort of massive, expensive build-out.

      Oh, they're "contractually obligated" to build infrastructure around the auctioned spectrum? How naive. Such contracts are only as good as the enforcement, and trust me -- the government has no intention of enforcing such a contract on the telcos. The telcos pay them too well for that.

      There is precedent for this: their handling of the internet infrastructure (particularly the last mile), where they got lots of government "incentives" and wound up doing...well, nothing.

      In other words, you can expect the phone suckage to continue without end. It's in the telcos best interests, after all, and that's all that really matters, right? This is the US, where the individual customer is the least important entity in the "business" relationship.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
  24. Someday... by ChangeOnInstall · · Score: 3, Funny

    Someday, when Google takes over the world, everything will be ad-supported, and everything will be free. My cell phone will be free and display ads to get a free ad-supported car. The car, in turn, will be painted with an ad for a free ad-supported house. The house will be totally free as well, but be plastered in advertising for free ad-supported cell phones.

    --
    What has *science* done?!? -- Dr. Weird (ATHF)
    1. Re:Someday... by Chlorus · · Score: 1

      Will the ads themselves be ad supported? Maybe the images are embedded in a microdot or something?

    2. Re:Someday... by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      The car, in turn, will be painted with an ad for a free ad-supported house and watching the traffic flow on the morning news will be like watching NASCAR, of course you'll be wearing ads on your [jump]suit too right?
  25. in the year 2050... by Seismologist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I will be driving in my Gmobile supported entirely by add revenue and the occasional mandatory detours to "suggested vendors" while en route to my destination, using of course, Gmaps. But on the way there, I need to fuel my Gmobile with some environmentally friendly and sustainable/renewable Gfuel, which is supported solely from advertising revenues which I'm forced to watch at the pump station. But before I leave the pump station, I plan to make a visit with my Gdoctor of course which the appointment has already been setup for me through Google calendar as Google knows my schedule by now anyway. I didn't need to confirm this, nor even ask for the appoint thanks to Gpsychic. The Gdoctor knows all my medical needs thanks to Grecords, all of which is sponsored by tailored advertising supported by the drug manufacturing consortium. I'm even planning on selling my Ghouse next week, to by a bigger house, for which G mortgage will help me out on the loan....

    --
    ~ In Trust, We Trust ~
    1. Re:in the year 2050... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you worry that one day your gSpot will belong to Google too?

      Who knows ...

  26. Finally a competitor in a non-competative market by Klowner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Considering I pay over $55/mo for my blackberry with an unlimited data connection, and I can't even tether to my laptop (use as a modem) via bluetooth or USB (at least in Linux), anything that allows more connectivity and openness is sure to be a hit with more technical users. I couldn't give half a hoot about being able to buy annoying ringtones, it's the connectivity that I want.

    So, hurry up google, I need you.

  27. Re:ads (the critical measure of success) by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
    Remember the days of free-to-air television? All those I Love Lucy productions -- it's all been paid for by ads since the mid 1950's. Nobody minded when they were only a few minutes per hour.

    The critical metric, the fulcrum, the absolute measure of success or failure of ad-supported media, in any form, is the ratio of ads:content. If ads outweigh content in terms of user attention, you'll lose.

    I could argue that ads are more effective when they're in the background, and don't capture your attention directly, as they're less likely to trigger your conscious censors.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  28. Forcing the Airwaves Open by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Google and others like it should force open the airwaves for mobile telecom. Telcos like AT&T, Sprint and Verizon have fled to their mobile divisions because it's still much more regulated against competition, though without the "common carrier" regulations that forced competition in landlines, and cable, and carried over into Internet. Even though radio phones are the least reliable, and often the most urgently needed, the redundancy that any phone connecting to any network available at the time/place is still out of reach. Except at outrageous roaming rates. Including the charges for text and other async messaging.

    Google tried to force the 700MHz band open to any terminal device, unbundling the network from the dialtone. It didn't work. But there are other ways, and Google is persistent. Google bought lots of fiber and built lots of datacenters, so it can mount its own competitive telco. But Google's model calls for everyone to have unfettered access to all content and people on all the networks, so Google can help everyone navigate everyone else's content (and each other). They'll get there. And the incumbent telcos (and cablecos which keep their own bundled monopolies, though they just got the cableboxes unbundled from them this year) can't compete with Google. It's too rich, too popular, too smart. Unfolding history is on Google's side. I just wish it would all happen a lot faster.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  29. or the apple version by lukesky321 · · Score: 1

    I will be driving in my Imobile supported entirely by add revenue and the occasional mandatory detours to "suggested vendors" while en route to my destination, using of course, Imaps. But on the way there, I need to fuel my Imobile with some environmentally friendly and sustainable/renewable Ifuel, which is supported solely from advertising revenues which I'm forced to watch at the pump station. But before I leave the pump station, I plan to make a visit with my Idoctor of course which the appointment has already been setup for me through apple calendar as apple knows my schedule by now anyway. I didn't need to confirm this, nor even ask for the appoint thanks to Ipsychic. The Idoctor knows all my medical needs thanks to Irecords, all of which is sponsored by tailored advertising supported by the drug manufacturing consortium. I'm even planning on selling my Ihouse next week, to buy a bigger house, for which Imortgage will help me out on the loan....

    1. Re:or the apple version by AlbertEin · · Score: 1

      I thought you will be driving your Imobile supported in part by road excusivity contracts, so you could only transit on supported roads (with expensive tolls), you would hack it to be able to go drive on another roads but it would be bricked the next time you fill the tank on the iGas station.

  30. Re:Finally a competitor in a non-competative marke by narcc · · Score: 1

    Hardly fair -- it costs me ~$105 a month for unlimited data/talk...

  31. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by davester666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How exactly will this loosen carriers control? Carriers in the US already dictate the features for each phone it offers [which are the majority of cell phones sold in the US]. Just look on the latest KRAZR, it's advertised by MOTO has being this fabulous phone, but each of the 4 major carriers sell it with a significantly different feature set. And just offering the OS for free doesn't make a difference to manufacturers as some cell phones already run Linux...

    And it's a non-starter for Canada, given the outrageous data fees...

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  32. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by overtoperative · · Score: 5, Funny

    and how many /.ers will be able to find these gSpots?

  33. Dammit! by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    > In order to have any service, you have to be in a gSpot.

    And just where am I supposed to find one of those??

    1. Re:Dammit! by v01d · · Score: 4, Funny

      I can't draw a map, but that's fine. All the fun is in the search anyway.

    2. Re:Dammit! by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Sure you can. It's right in there => .

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    3. Re:Dammit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only on Slashdot could a comment like this be considered "Informative". :)

  34. Re:Finally a competitor in a non-competative marke by garbletext · · Score: 1

    That's what I'm saying. Assuming they're not incredibly intrusive, I'll sit through some ads for free stuff. Don't expect me to ever act on them, though. Google is pretty good at making advertising palatable, and chances are, we'll be able to use our devices more fully if google has its way. Anything has to be better than the current mobile landscape. The US wireless industry is in the dark ages, it needs something to give it a good kick.

  35. TROLL? WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not the parent poster who got marked as a troll, but seriously, what did they say that deserved that?

    There's a lot of truth the what the parent poster said, but even if you disagree, maybe you should make an argument stating otherwise and explain yourself.

  36. ads everywhere by timmarhy · · Score: 1

    I don't like this trend to putting advertising everywhere.... we have more then enough advertising in society. no more is needed or wanted.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:ads everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LEELA: Didn't you have ads in the twentieth century?
      FRY: Well, sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio... and in magazines... and movies, and at ballgames, and on buses, and milk cartons, and T-shirts, and bananas, and written in the sky. But not in dreams, no sirree.

  37. Enough with the @#$@#$ ads! by tjstork · · Score: 1

    Seriously. What's next? A toilet that looks at my poop and tries to recommend the right kind of diet, brought to you by Google?

    People that think services are "free" if advertisers pay for them are pretty silly. In the end, we still pay for them.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Enough with the @#$@#$ ads! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's called dr. toilet, and it diagnoses illnesses.

  38. Mobile lessons for this Dummy... by gbalaji · · Score: 0

    Should not we be having the option to choose the Handset, carrier and the software (display, browser, yadda, yadda) already on our phones?!! Have the mobile players succeeded where Mac failed in the PC-market. (yeah ok, Apple has not failed but trying...)

  39. Easy way to save a ton of money on a mobile phone by Optic7 · · Score: 2

    Use a third party reseller. They will have many more phones for free than the mobile provider will, and on some models they will even pay you to take them. I used letstalk.com and and got two motorola phones from T-mobile and they actually paid me $200! $100 came from letstalk, and the other $100 was the mail-in rebate from t-mobile itself. The price of the plans is the same, so there was no downside in my experience. I was actually even past the deadline on sending in some of the rebates and they still paid me. I know there are other companies that basically do the same thing as letstalk.com but they're the ones I used and can recommend. They also resell for all the major US carriers (verizon, sprint, cingular/AT&T, t-mobile). Good luck.

  40. Re:Finally a competitor in a non-competative marke by Monx · · Score: 1

    Get a used Treo 650 that works with Sprint.

    The plans are cheap. You can tether. You can install any Palm software you want -- and there's a lot of it. You can also write your own. It's a good phone that also takes photos and videos, plays videos, plays audio, displays pdfs, has imap and pop support out of the box, supports the gmail and google maps apps, has a full-sized sd slot, comes with editors and viewers for MS docs, and supports ssh (client, not server). It doesn't run Linux, but other than that, it's darn near perfect.

    The Blackberry and the iPhone have nothing (important) on this 4-year-old Treo.

  41. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by kcbanner · · Score: 1

    Then sell the AT&T stock. Although it looks like it won't buy much google stock atm...like 42$ vs 610$ :P

    --
    Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
  42. The future is brought to you by... by onosson · · Score: 0

    Google will make its money brokering ads on the mobile phones and even envisions a free phone service one day supported entirely through ad revenue
    I can envision a future where what is now low-cost housing will be provided entirely free, with giant flat-screens for walls bombarding the occupants with advertising 24/7. I sure hope I never have to live there!
    --
    ? syntax error
  43. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  44. what's there to "disaggregate"? by m2943 · · Score: 1

    You can use unlocked phones and installable software on several major US carriers. In Europe, you can do so on all carriers. If you don't have the phone you want or the features you want, you only have yourself to blame.

  45. Re:Finally a competitor in a non-competative marke by darjen · · Score: 1

    I have two words for you... Nokia N800. Open wifi, Linux, and Skype. Very cheap calls at home and other places I visit a lot. Next month I will be switching to a $15 pre-paid plan for any few extra cell minutes I might (or might not) need. Browsing with a beautiful 800x480 screen. It goes on...

  46. Re:Obligatory Luddite Reply...Karma to burn by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

    Do you want a "Hell Yeah!" with that?

    Too right, remember when you all went to the same pub, so if you wanted to see them you'd go there?

    --
    Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
  47. woeful be the day.... by White+Shade · · Score: 1

    when sometime in the future, the entire global economy doesn't seem to be based entirely on advertising. Imagine what would HAPPEN if companies decided that advertising didn't work anymore...

    -how would TV networks afford to do anything?
    -how would 75% of the websites out there stay in business?
    and so on...

    I'm sure it'll never happen, because the human race does seem to be sheepish enough to succumb to advertisements, but it's still an interesting thought experiment to wonder what'll happen when/if the paradigm does decide to shift and suddenly people began to doubt the overall effectiveness of all this extreme product placement and advertisement...

    --
    ìì!
    1. Re:woeful be the day.... by McGiraf · · Score: 1

      I do not want ads to disappear, i just want less of them not more. There is a point were it's just to much.

    2. Re:woeful be the day.... by Xiaran · · Score: 1

      And something people seem to forget. When you plaster too many ads on something then those ads become *far less* effective. Ideally ads should be discreet and targeted. I have no problems with advertising as long as the ad is relevant to me and not "in your face". In fact a relevant ad is useful to me as I *am* interested in buying things and *would* like to know where I can by them conveniently and cheaply.

      The problem is that advertisers don't seem to understand this.

    3. Re:woeful be the day.... by McGiraf · · Score: 1

      They do not rely on you actually looking at the ads, they just want them to be in your field of view all the time, influencing you without you even realizing it.

  48. That's completely different though by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 1

    Your previous providers were capable of bombarding you with unwanted ads that because they are (or view themselves) as the gatekeepers to your phone and your contract with them as a way to tie you into buying from them only.

    With more open phones/networks (ie those not locked down to the extent they often are in the US) there is room for much more competition based on quality of apps and user experience.

    I just got a new Nokia N95 ("free" if I commit to a 2 year contract) from Vodafone Australia. The best thing about it is that I can install what I like on it and it will happily do things over WiFi, not costing me a cent. Currently I am loving the Google Mail and playing with the Google Maps applications on it (which seems better than the map app that comes with it.

    They are presumably ad supported in some way but I'm using them because they are, as far as I know, the nicest applications available for the purpose.

    Your phone company will screw you for what they can and will supplement their income with ads anyway if they get the opportunity (though likely in a more annoying and incompetant way than Google will). However you will be better off in situations where your phone is open and allows applications and service from different providers as those provider will have to compete more.

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  49. You will get them anyway. by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 1

    The issue isn't whether services will be ad supported, it's whether phones/networks are open to the degree that you can choose what/who to use for different applications/services.

    Even if you are paying a phone company they are not going to turn their nose up at an additional revenue source if it is there to be had.

    At least with a more open environment the various will have to compete against each other to be less annoying and provide a better experience so you have a reason to choose their app/service. If you just want to be stuck with one provider then ultimately you will get worse service.

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  50. They don't put beige boxes into service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dumbass. learn a little.

    1. Re:They don't put beige boxes into service by pedantic+bore · · Score: 1

      To quote the link from the grandparent: "Servers are commodity-class x86 PCs running customized versions of Linux."

      What part of that isn't beige, oh all-knowing A.C.?

      --
      Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    2. Re:They don't put beige boxes into service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >What part of that isn't beige, oh all-knowing A.C.?

      I'm not the other AC. Around here, we call 'em "white box servers".

      But, Wikipedia has entries for both:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beige_box

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_box_(computer_hardware)

  51. Re:Easy way to save a ton of money on a mobile pho by EagleEye101 · · Score: 1

    Hey man thanks for this. I was looking at switching to verizon and needed a new phone. This looks golden

  52. VOIP by Paul_Hindt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't believe how out of whack the telco and data services industries are in the United States (I don't know how they fare elsewhere). Its seriously about time we have a big push for fiber-to-the-premises, and extended WIFI coverage for rural areas. You would think that the U.S. would be able to get something like this going by now. Yes I know that Verizon and ATT have their limited coverage fiber services out now, but there is still a loooong way to go. Once we have a large-scale broadband network in place, we can do ALL of our communicating over it...VOIP, videoconferencing, VR marketplaces, whatever...If we actually spent time putting together a solid digital communications backbone, I believe customers would be much happier with their service and the possibilities it offers. Of course someone better pinch me, I'm probably dreaming.

  53. I might want an Ad supported phone by phurley · · Score: 1

    I doubt they would go the audio delivered route, but rather text ads on the display/map. Image if your cell phone could tell you about things you like where you happen to be. When I am traveling, I want to know about Thai and other interesting restaurants. Driving down the interstate, I want to know about places I can stop, that are not McDonalds. Around home, I want to know about sales and new places of business.

    A well targeted ad, is not that annoying. I am not saying this would be easy to do, but you give me good maps, with useful ads and reasonably prices phone service -- I will probably give it a try.

    pth

    --
    Home Automation & Linux -- now I know I'm a geek
  54. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The words you're trying to use are spelled "screwed" and "balls." If the words offend you, then use different words, but there's no need to protect us by inserting asterisks. Noone here gives a fuck about such language.

  55. Re:Finally a competitor in a non-competative marke by Klowner · · Score: 1

    The N800 isn't actually a phone though is it? I need internet access when I'm at these stupid places like Starbucks where they want to charge $15/day for wifi.

  56. Re:Finally a competitor in a non-competative marke by middlemen · · Score: 2

    Get a used Treo 650 that works with Sprint. .... It doesn't run Linux,


    As an owner of a Treo 650 and a tester for Linux4palm, it is my duty to direct you to hackndev where they have been successful in running Linux on a Treo 650 and I have tested it myself.

  57. Re:Finally a competitor in a non-competative marke by darjen · · Score: 1

    It's not technically a cell phone, though I use it as a phone with Skype. I plan on transitioning most of my phone minutes over to Skype in the very near future, as it works quite well with good quality. It's rumored that Sprint is coming out with a 3g version of the N800, but the whole reason I got it is to avoid the high data charges for things like the iPhone. Once I am mostly using this with Skype, I will be able to get down to about $18 dollars a month for both phone and mobile internet usage. However, I'm one of the kinds of people who isn't on the phone much except when I'm at home, work, or visiting family. If you are constantly on a cell phone, like when you are driving or out on the town, then my plan probably wouldn't work for you. And if I'm going out for coffee, there are usually places like Panera around that have free wifi that I will go to instead of Starbucks.

  58. text based ads by Cyko_01 · · Score: 1

    i sincerely hope that they do not interrupt your phone conversations as many of the people here have suggested. Even If they do listen in on your conversations I'm sure that the ads will be sent as text messages, similar to Google AdWords. Many carriers (such as rogers) already send you text messages to advertise new services they offer so I don't this this would be too big of a big deal, providing they are pay-per-click and you not charged for every text message that you receive from google. There should also be a set limit on the number of ads you can receive per week, based of your payment plan - The more you are paying per month, the less ads you will see. This also encourages users to upgrade there cellphone plans.

  59. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by adolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It will help loosen carriers' control by forcing them to accept Google's software in its entirety.

    I mean, one can only assume that Google would require the carriers to offer either all of the features of their application suite, or none at all. And once one or two national carriers (or a handful of regional ones) start adopting this software, the rest will be compelled to make a decision:

    Play ball with Google and adjust business models accordingly. This is obviously a somewhat frightening concept for companies like Verizon which are deeply entrenched in selling individual services for exorbitant sums, and it will likely be an expensive task to perform.

    or...

    Distance themselves from the household name of Google, stubbornly maintain the status quo, and fade into obscurity as an increasingly-clued consumer populace flocks toward their Google-embracing competition. And where the former choice was merely frightening and expensive, this one will be downright terrifying and death-bringing.

  60. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by NeMon'ess · · Score: 1

    Okay, but how will Google get any carrier to accept their software if it means losing all those profits from services sold separately?

  61. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by Yoozer · · Score: 1

    Carriers in the US already dictate the features for each phone it offers
    You mean, carriers in the US already castrate the existing featureset of each phone in slightly different ways.
  62. But by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But

    Many people, like myself, want free of charge service, even at the cost receiving of contextual ads. And it would be an interesting service, as interesting as google services can be.

    About contextual Ads, I think google will take care about not bothering [too much] people with them. At the cost they can charge to advertisers for the targeted Ads, customer would probably receive a couple of Ads per day, and that is worth a free ubiquitous mobile Internet service. Even more, with the information the system would gather about us and the Local context (as we connect through a localized spot of the network), Ads would be so targeted that they could be beneficial for the customer, who would even apply to receive more Ads. For example:

    [Text/Multimedia Message Ad; it is lunch time and you are close to a Mall] - Ho ho ho, come to Krusty Burger, show this message and get a $ discount in your meal-

    Another example:

    [Text/Multimedia Message Ad; You are close to a baby-expensive-stuff shop and Google knows that lately you have been reading about pregnancy and how to take care of a new born] - Ho ho ho, come Krusty BabyExpensiveStuff right now, show us this message and get a 50$ discount buying any of our trolleys!-

    I wouldn't mind getting good juicy discounts on my brand free phone. On the other side, you would be paying for a less interesting service and missing quite big targeted discounts.

  63. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by davotoula · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't see how this strategy will work for Google in Europe. You see here each country has a handful of operators (2-4) and a part of their revenue is bastardising the mobile phones they offer in as many ways as possible. I am afraid it will be all too easy for the handful of operators operating in a country to choose not to allow Google in and be certain that the other operator(s) will do the same.

  64. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by smilindog2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Exactly. I did a lot of searching, and it seems that OpenMmoko is the only current significant effort at open-phone development. Apple and the rest run on *nix, but close up the phone so you can't do dick with it. Openmoko has some promise, but without wireless or a cell carrier in the US on-board, I'm not read to start hacking it. Ubuntu Mobile has potential, but the screen size currently has to be 4.8", and it looks more like a tablet PC OS at the moment than smartphone software.

    There's some ultra-smart dudes at Google, at this point. The next major shift in computing will be smartphones. Only an open system with an excellent SDK for 3rd party applications has much chance of dominating, so the current players seem to be Google and Microsoft. I personally have disliked every version of Windows CE I've ever seen, though I hear good things about the latest version. Based on open-source GNU/Linux, Google's got a real shot at the largest new market on the horizon, IMO.

    --
    Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
  65. Go Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    gphone+wimax+iptelephony=end of mobile providers business model.

    You can bet they are not going to let google anywhere near them. This can only benefit google and destroy their business model. But for consumers nothing could be better.

  66. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by ctzan · · Score: 1

    The next iteration of OpenMoko will have WiFi with
    an Atheros chipset, they say.

    The problem with OpenMoko is its repulsive shape.
    Was the case design made by the girlfriend/wife of the
    project leader ? Why should it be THAT ugly ?

  67. Re:Google's Experience (replying to myself) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, you were being facetious.

  68. Maybe by kurtis25 · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm slow or missing something BUT... If I get the GOSsiP (Google Operating System Phone) on the ATT network I'm not sure how this will save me money. Is Google going to mail me a check each month for the ads I see? Are the negotiating a lower price for my monthly service with ATT? Or are they going to greatly subsidize the cost of my phone (pay the maker to carry their software, like companies do with pc makers). If this is an OS on a phone I'm just not seeing how this is going to save me money. Google needs people to get on the mobile web but the cost is killing the us market. If Google can get me on the Mobil web without raising my monthly cellphone bill then I would surf a whole lot more, especially if I had a nice phone to do it on. I would check my Gmail more, I would be using gmaps more, I would be doing a whole lot more surfing through this set up but cost is the key. I'm not paying $30 to surf at home and $30 more to surf on the cell but I would surf on my cell if it was free. I just don't see how this will work.

  69. If it's anything like Goog-411: by CptnQuixar · · Score: 0

    -ringing-

    "Hello."

    "Calls recorded for quality"

    "What? Who is this?

    "Sorry about that, it's my gPhone?"

    "Oh, that's weird. They're recording us?"

    "Yeah, I guess. So anyway did you get the test results?"

    "GOT HERPES? VISIT VALTREX.COM TODAY TO RECEIVE A FREE SAMPLE! PRESS 1 TO OPEN IN YOUR GPHONE BROWSER"

  70. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by Itchyeyes · · Score: 1

    I imagine that they don't expect any carrier to accept their software just outright, which would explain why they're putting up $4.6 billion to bid on wireless spectrum. If Google has a service on the market that uses their OS, and if their OS has clearly superior features to other OS's, then other carriers would be forced to accept Google's terms in order to compete.

  71. gphone prediction by delvsional · · Score: 1

    I'm not going to say I told you so, but....

    I told you so....

    :-p

    --
    Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....
  72. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by RevWhite · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well played, sir. . .well played.

    --
    Hey, can I bum a sig?
  73. The other catch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google will make its money brokering ads on the mobile phones and even envisions a free phone service one day supported entirely through ad revenue.


    And don't forget the subsidies Google will get from the government for collecting all the phone conversations you make, and adding it to the Google data mine.
  74. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by MenTaLguY · · Score: 2, Informative

    The carriers don't need to be on-board with OpenMoko. It's just an unlocked GSM phone, which you can put a carrier's SIM card in. The only limitation in terms of carrier compatibiliy is the dialing software (gsmd), which doesn't cover enough to work automatically with all of the GSM carriers yet. But that's being worked on.

    --

    DNA just wants to be free...
  75. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by smilindog2000 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, I take it back. In fact, I've just purchased the OpenMoko Neo1973, and hope to be of some assistance in the open-source development community, which so far seems vibrant and friendlier than most :-)

    --
    Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
  76. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by umghhh · · Score: 1

    If one does not want to spend more than 1 talar on one's mobile eq. waiting for a gift from the operator than one should not complain. After all there is nothing stopping you from buying your own equipment - the market is full of them.
    It is yet another very fascinating sight - a lot of 'free' people complain and whine about their lost freedom, the one that they gave away for a handfull of glass pearls.

    Some other maybe more important questions would be: do I need to do things like reading my mails while I am on the way and if so how usefull a mobile phone may in such situation be. I chose to answer NO to the first question which by default makes the second one superfluous. The decision is yours of course. At least for so long as it takes to develop and install mind controlling wires into the mobile phones. I am not saying that this ever will happen, it may not be needed - after all people do what is wanted of them anyway. How handy...

  77. Re:Diaggregate Carriers? Only one catch... by Bibz · · Score: 2, Funny

    and how many /.ers will have the chance to try to find these gSpots?

    --
    I didn't found something funny to put here.
  78. Re:Google: Stick to what you do well by Quikah · · Score: 1

    Hate to break this to you, but Google is an advertising company, THAT is what they do well, finding new ways to deliver ads to people. They make the majority (99%) of their money from Ads.

    --
    Q.
  79. This isn't about ads on voice by Emporer+of+Ice+Cream · · Score: 1

    It's about ads on the mobile services - maps and web. Anyone who's got a smartphone or iphone has discovered the usefulness of such mobile apps. That's where the ads come in. The voice part - that's pretty easy, actually. Voice can probably be subsidized by a robust mobile ad platform that does not get in the way of the utility applications on such a device.