OpenGL is - for me - not a better API. It is convoluted and over-complicated by the very fact that it is an "open" standard, decided upon by a committee of people who wouldn't know good design if it bit them in the rear.
What a smooth, effortless transition from opinion to propaganda.
most of the features easily found in D3D cannot be accessed in OpenGL, years after their invention, without the use of custom extensions is enough to throw me off the API.
I can see why people use D3D for a game on a windows machine. The new features appear sooner so you can use them sooner. That's one of the benefits of D3D. But, of course, that's not the whole story. For a game, standards and reliability don't matter.
However, many companies prefer something mature, open, and standard before undertaking the huge task of moving their massive applications onto the new features. It's very important that the ARB get it right and this takes time.
Take the new Framebuffer_object extension for example, it took a lot of time and compromise to get it completed, all the while D3D had similar ability to access textures/buffers, but the final FBO design, IMO, is top notch all around.
Also, rather resent the comment about GL developers not knowing good design. Tell that to Mark Kilgard, Allen Akin, or Michael Gold. I'm sure they could explain any problems that you might have understanding the GL Spec.
For me, though, Wind Waker actually got me interested in the Zelda franchise again. I played Ocarina, but never played Majora. Honestly if this new 'mature' Zelda had come out first, I may have passed on it. But Wind Waker came out and blew me away and got me to love the series again (ive since gone back and played through the classics collection and LttP on GBA).
Im now totally pumped for the next one.
As far as having the right guy for the job, Aonuma has had a vital role in Ocarina, Wind Waker, and this new 'mature' Zelda - thats an excellent track record in my book, anyday.
The ONLY hope of survival for the N-Gauge at this point (IMO) is to turn it into "technology" instead of a product.
This is totally what they should've done. That way the actual case/button design could've constantly be improved upon. They could even easily introduce upgraded, backwards compatible HW this way.
They could get massive market penetration with their NGage 'Platform'. It would just be about getting as many people as possible to switch to a Ngage phone when they needed a new one. Some folks wouldnt even use the gaming - but they could. Having a zillion people possibly purchase 1 game is better than having 15 sidetalkers buying 5 games each.
Maybe they didn't do it this way cuz they took to big of a step and the HW got too expensive to be able to get it on phone cheap.
Or maybe the payoff wouldnt be as much as if they just conquored the gameboy with a proprietary device - which, as most people knew, wasnt going to happen. Oh well, greed often misguides good ideas.
As long as there's no SonyOS or MS Windows for CELL(TM)
And that's where Linux comes in. Sony is a big Linux fan. I wouldn't be surprised if they started moving all their computer products to a CELL/Linux cocktail.
I'd actually bet that it has functionality similar to the register combiners found on the original GF2-GTS. These were basically precursors to todays programmable units - they allowed nifty effects, but were still limited and locked into the fixed function pipeline.
Actually, I'm a tech-head too. I think what Crawford was trying to get at, though, is that there is potential for makeing great art in the video game medium, it's just really hard and not exactly strived for very often. And given the large undertaking and large amount of passionate/opinionated people that it takes to make a game(not to mention the pressure from the business side - I'm not convinced we have a 'truce' or whatever with the business side of things), it's not surprising.
Of course, it doesn't need to be a work of art to be fun. I can blast monsters till my hearts content in quake or whatever and have fun, but i wouldnt call that great art.
Some examples that might help illustrate my opinion would include checking out Zelda: the Wind Waker, American McGee's Alice, and Dragon's Lair. All trying to not just incorporate good art onto a stable tech framework, but BE good art as a whole. (Alice, IMO, failed, but started off in a interesting direction)
Elegate/efficient tech design is part of succeeding in making great art in game design, of course. I think Crawford is just trying to emphasize that there is MORE than just the seperate parts. There's the whole multi-legged horse thingy.
I thought it was great how he described that he liked text quests the best - so that you can interact and affect the story, then realized that the same feeling can be infused into an action game.
I think that elusive little attention to detail is one of the reasons Zelda is so great. You can cut down a bush or throw a rock and feel like thats actually part of the story. Traveling in that boat in that last game( even though it admitily got a little too time consuming) actually felt like a significant journey. A story in itself.
I wasn't trying to sound like a fan or like I'm giving undo credit. We do seem to agree on most of this.
Basically, I was just trying to underline Iwata's point that the industry can stagnate and die without innovation. Not that it will. You said yourself that one of the reasons that the PC gaming is sliding a bit is because of the lack of innovation. Of course many other reasons are just as important, as you pointed out, but the lack of innovation is one factor you can control.
I still believe Nintendo is a rather innovative company. And although some of the recent attempts (GBA connectivity, controller design, "simpler" games, upcoming DS w/touchscreen) have taken a lot of critisicm, they are, in fact, trying.
Youre thinking to specific, mr genius - and why so defensive?
Nintendo has how many millions(billions?) in the bank? Maybe the N64 didnt tickle your fancy, and wasnt much compared to the PS/PS2 successes, but, yes I would consider Nintendo a successful company in Japan over the last 20 yrs.
because there is no sign of that happening (outside of PC gaming, of course)
Umm.. The Japanese game market and world PC game market are starting to slide - 2 markets usually on the cutting edge of gaming...hmmm no sign?
And even if those arent direct signs, that does NOT mean the bubble won't burst. That's why they call it a bubble. POP!
Please. Name an innovative (by your unreasonable standards) game that Nintendo has released this generation.
I'm not talking about the current generation here, Snippy. Iwata is talking about the Future. There needs to be innovation or there may be a crash - thats the point. And why are my standards unreasonable just because I'm sick of WW2 games?
I'm not even saying riding cash cows is bad either. Just that eventually the fucker DIES.
This is exactly Iwata's motivation. (and what I was trying to say in an earlier post).
Believe it or not, games have always been evolving and becoming more accessible. Cutting back on the innovation kills the evolution and is not a good idea for the industry as a whole - and Iwata knows it. Go Nintendo!
I agree. Remember, the gaming market is shrinking in Japan, Nintendo's constant stomping ground for the past 20 yrs or so. I think Mr. Iwata is just realizing that the same thing could happen in the US, and that wouldnt be good.
Don't believe me? Imagine the gaming industry without Nintendo. Innovation seems few and far between elsewhere. If I play another WW2 FPS, I will seriously barf. GTA was kinda innovative, but even that seems based on Zelda (with hookers!) (Point: most -not all- game companies try and ride whatever cash cow is around at the moment)
What happens when all the 17-yr old males the industry depends on, get bored with the same old crap?
Iwata is trying to keep it new and interesting, and trying to keep the novelty of playing games alive. Rock on.
I live in Austin and met one of the guys who work at Retro (Andrew Jones). He also had some Samus art hanging at The Hideout, off Congress, a little while back. Great-looking stuff.
I'm all for hot chicks and all, but Samus is an intergalatic, (partial-cyborg?), bounty-hunting, loner who rarely speaks. Why would she be sexy? She's a killer.
I've seen some of the concept work for Prime2(great artists over there at Retro) and it looks like they may play up that angle, which would kick ass.
Woo signing on for the movie isn't a good sign, in my opinion. Hopefully he doesnt direct it. This movie needs grit and suspense, not flash and slo-mo.
When hardware stops being profitable, IT STOPS BEING MADE. The real costs of the resistors, chips, labor, etc. are the bottom. End of story.
EXAMPLE: The value of a 40MB harddrive may be close to $0 nowadays, but can you still buy one? Hell no, cuz no one can rationalize manufacturing one.
Bill is either drunk on power or scared shitless of free software. Either way, this industry is still driven by HW and performance and until that changes, Bill's on the short end of the stick.
Wow, Dude, you are the console makers wet-dream. That's quite a bit of hardware you got kicking there.
Seriously, though, I suppose you're just a collector, huh? I KNOW you can't have all that hooked up and being used regularly. Wish I still had some of my old gear.
Slashdot Mirror
What a smooth, effortless transition from opinion to propaganda.
I can see why people use D3D for a game on a windows machine. The new features appear sooner so you can use them sooner. That's one of the benefits of D3D. But, of course, that's not the whole story. For a game, standards and reliability don't matter.
However, many companies prefer something mature, open, and standard before undertaking the huge task of moving their massive applications onto the new features. It's very important that the ARB get it right and this takes time.
Take the new Framebuffer_object extension for example, it took a lot of time and compromise to get it completed, all the while D3D had similar ability to access textures/buffers, but the final FBO design, IMO, is top notch all around.
Also, rather resent the comment about GL developers not knowing good design. Tell that to Mark Kilgard, Allen Akin, or Michael Gold. I'm sure they could explain any problems that you might have understanding the GL Spec.
yeah, there were newer versions, but the tightwad NFL wouldn't let them use the NFL name/teams if they kept BLITZ as a rule-less tackle-fest. Too bad.
NFL Street is kind of the spirtual successor though - check that out.
Valid points.
For me, though, Wind Waker actually got me interested in the Zelda franchise again. I played Ocarina, but never played Majora. Honestly if this new 'mature' Zelda had come out first, I may have passed on it. But Wind Waker came out and blew me away and got me to love the series again (ive since gone back and played through the classics collection and LttP on GBA).
Im now totally pumped for the next one.
As far as having the right guy for the job, Aonuma has had a vital role in Ocarina, Wind Waker, and this new 'mature' Zelda - thats an excellent track record in my book, anyday.
He says "How about a chu-chu rocket pack-in"
It's a japanese puzzle game with space mice trying to avoid space kitties. Sounds wack, but it's pretty fun.
Linky
Keep in mind that having a blue laser DVD reader and being Blu-Ray compatible are not the same thing.
The former is a general technology, while the latter is a specification.
Also, the codename for the new nintendo console is "Revolution".
This is totally what they should've done. That way the actual case/button design could've constantly be improved upon. They could even easily introduce upgraded, backwards compatible HW this way.
They could get massive market penetration with their NGage 'Platform'. It would just be about getting as many people as possible to switch to a Ngage phone when they needed a new one. Some folks wouldnt even use the gaming - but they could. Having a zillion people possibly purchase 1 game is better than having 15 sidetalkers buying 5 games each.
Maybe they didn't do it this way cuz they took to big of a step and the HW got too expensive to be able to get it on phone cheap.
Or maybe the payoff wouldnt be as much as if they just conquored the gameboy with a proprietary device - which, as most people knew, wasnt going to happen. Oh well, greed often misguides good ideas.
And that's where Linux comes in. Sony is a big Linux fan. I wouldn't be surprised if they started moving all their computer products to a CELL/Linux cocktail.
No complaints here!
I'd actually bet that it has functionality similar to the register combiners found on the original GF2-GTS. These were basically precursors to todays programmable units - they allowed nifty effects, but were still limited and locked into the fixed function pipeline.
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/ ..just as a differing viewpoint. Worth a read.
Lots of defensive techies in here today!
Actually, I'm a tech-head too.
I think what Crawford was trying to get at, though, is that there is potential for makeing great art in the video game medium, it's just really hard and not exactly strived for very often. And given the large undertaking and large amount of passionate/opinionated people that it takes to make a game(not to mention the pressure from the business side - I'm not convinced we have a 'truce' or whatever with the business side of things), it's not surprising.
Of course, it doesn't need to be a work of art to be fun. I can blast monsters till my hearts content in quake or whatever and have fun, but i wouldnt call that great art.
Some examples that might help illustrate my opinion would include checking out Zelda: the Wind Waker, American McGee's Alice, and Dragon's Lair. All trying to not just incorporate good art onto a stable tech framework, but BE good art as a whole. (Alice, IMO, failed, but started off in a interesting direction)
Elegate/efficient tech design is part of succeeding in making great art in game design, of course. I think Crawford is just trying to emphasize that there is MORE than just the seperate parts. There's the whole multi-legged horse thingy.
I thought it was great how he described that he liked text quests the best - so that you can interact and affect the story, then realized that the same feeling can be infused into an action game.
I think that elusive little attention to detail is one of the reasons Zelda is so great. You can cut down a bush or throw a rock and feel like thats actually part of the story. Traveling in that boat in that last game( even though it admitily got a little too time consuming) actually felt like a significant journey. A story in itself.
Brilliant.
Um, I'm hoping you're not suggesting procedural textures originated in the demo scene.
Ever heard of Ken Perlin?
Programmer who actually won an Academy Award for basically inventing this?
Anyone?
I wasn't trying to sound like a fan or like I'm giving undo credit. We do seem to agree on most of this.
Basically, I was just trying to underline Iwata's point that the industry can stagnate and die without innovation. Not that it will. You said yourself that one of the reasons that the PC gaming is sliding a bit is because of the lack of innovation. Of course many other reasons are just as important, as you pointed out, but the lack of innovation is one factor you can control.
I still believe Nintendo is a rather innovative company. And although some of the recent attempts (GBA connectivity, controller design, "simpler" games, upcoming DS w/touchscreen) have taken a lot of critisicm, they are, in fact, trying.
Youre thinking to specific, mr genius - and why so defensive?
Nintendo has how many millions(billions?) in the bank? Maybe the N64 didnt tickle your fancy, and wasnt much compared to the PS/PS2 successes, but, yes I would consider Nintendo a successful company in Japan over the last 20 yrs.
Umm.. The Japanese game market and world PC game market are starting to slide - 2 markets usually on the cutting edge of gaming...hmmm no sign?
And even if those arent direct signs, that does NOT mean the bubble won't burst. That's why they call it a bubble. POP!
I'm not talking about the current generation here, Snippy. Iwata is talking about the Future. There needs to be innovation or there may be a crash - thats the point. And why are my standards unreasonable just because I'm sick of WW2 games?
I'm not even saying riding cash cows is bad either. Just that eventually the fucker DIES.
This is exactly Iwata's motivation. (and what I was trying to say in an earlier post).
Believe it or not, games have always been evolving and becoming more accessible. Cutting back on the innovation kills the evolution and is not a good idea for the industry as a whole - and Iwata knows it. Go Nintendo!
I agree.
Remember, the gaming market is shrinking in Japan, Nintendo's constant stomping ground for the past 20 yrs or so. I think Mr. Iwata is just realizing that the same thing could happen in the US, and that wouldnt be good.
Don't believe me? Imagine the gaming industry without Nintendo. Innovation seems few and far between elsewhere. If I play another WW2 FPS, I will seriously barf. GTA was kinda innovative, but even that seems based on Zelda (with hookers!)
(Point: most -not all- game companies try and ride whatever cash cow is around at the moment)
What happens when all the 17-yr old males the industry depends on, get bored with the same old crap?
Iwata is trying to keep it new and interesting, and trying to keep the novelty of playing games alive. Rock on.
Say what?
You don't get much higher-level than a scenegraph API like Java3D.
I think the author may have been confused, although he did get the overall point right. OpenGL ES on J2ME will probably be the way this goes.
Say what??
Yeah, so instead of MS losing $50 from you buying their console, they can lose $250 cuz you didn't buy it.
How is that a benefit?
I live in Austin and met one of the guys who work at Retro (Andrew Jones). He also had some Samus art hanging at The Hideout, off Congress, a little while back. Great-looking stuff.
Yeah, since when is Samus "Sexy"??
I'm all for hot chicks and all, but Samus is an intergalatic, (partial-cyborg?), bounty-hunting, loner who rarely speaks. Why would she be sexy? She's a killer.
I've seen some of the concept work for Prime2(great artists over there at Retro) and it looks like they may play up that angle, which would kick ass.
Woo signing on for the movie isn't a good sign, in my opinion. Hopefully he doesnt direct it. This movie needs grit and suspense, not flash and slo-mo.
Exactly.
When hardware stops being profitable, IT STOPS BEING MADE. The real costs of the resistors, chips, labor, etc. are the bottom. End of story.
EXAMPLE: The value of a 40MB harddrive may be close to $0 nowadays, but can you still buy one? Hell no, cuz no one can rationalize manufacturing one.
Bill is either drunk on power or scared shitless of free software. Either way, this industry is still driven by HW and performance and until that changes, Bill's on the short end of the stick.
Malice did look cool. And being supposedly voice by Gwen Stefani also seemed cool.
Unfortunately, it was delayed one too many times and then thrown into the scrap-heap.
Argonaut Games made I-ninja, so they're still around.
Wow,
Dude, you are the console makers wet-dream. That's quite a bit of hardware you got kicking there.
Seriously, though, I suppose you're just a collector, huh? I KNOW you can't have all that hooked up and being used regularly. Wish I still had some of my old gear.
I hope you invite all the neighborhood kids over to play all those consoles in your, no doubt, House of Wonders...
hehe...just messin with ya