Well, it is and it isn't pointless. In this plane of existence, the inalienability has true meaning. A state that complies with the UN Charter on Human Rights cannot support state assisted suicide, because the Charter has declared life to be inalienable. For the same reason that a state in compliance with the Charter cannot have the death penalty, they cannot make suicide a legal act. Therefore, it is erroneous to use the Charter as a defense to the right to alienate one's life.
After you are dead, you cease to exist in this plane. So, you are correct. Whatever the final consequences may be, that rule that you were not allowed to stop the operation of your bag of flesh is quite meaningless.
I do agree that one should be allowed to choose to end one's corporeal existence. However, an argument must be made for it, as you have in your reply to my post, on moral or philosophical grounds, not legal ones.
inalienable also means that you cannot get rid of it. "incapable of being repudiated" is part of your definition, to repudiate is defined as to refuse to accept or be associated with a thing, or to deny the truth or validity of something. Alienable property can literally be alienated: Don't want your bike? Park it at a bike rack and walk away. You might get charged with some city law saying not to leave your bike parked for more than a day, but they won't force you to take your bike back.
You have a right to life, and you are stuck with it.
My parents didn't know any better to filter the internet back in the 90's. they were pretty pissed to see me using BitchX, tho. I probably saw some dumb shit before I was old enough to see it. I'm not sure/some/ of it is appropriate at any age.
Sure, I coulda come out a depraved pedophile lunatic, but I didn't. You know what I learned? People do some crazy shit. Comparatively, my life is quite normal, safe, upstanding, and happy. Better to see/read things for real than have some priest tell you, and then touch your pee-pee in the name of the Lord, anyway.
Still give the man props for that. I'm no fanboi either, I really can't stand Jobs (he ousted Woz, left, came back and killed hackintoshes), but props for taking responsibility for your business.
Too stiff for day-to-day driving, but mechanically speaking, too stiff for the control arms to take. So, replacement with a poly bushing essentially leaves you with a more expensive repair 25,000 down the line.
I used to be a Ford guy, and they make everything too squishy. I had to re-valve my T-bird's automatic transmission because the shifts were so soft. Like your truck, the T-bird's suspension seemed to be designed for it's Mustang cousin, simply not equipped to handle a fatass boat.
There are jillions of other examples, such as automakers using silicone-filled rubber (dunno what kind of "rubber") bushings instead of air-filled polyurethane, even though these will typically wear out during the lifetime of the vehicle.
Just replaced control arm bushings and strut cups on my VW. It's advised to not replace them with polyurethane replacements because it will make the handling too stiff.
I'm cool with car geek. And that geeks are doers. However, the intellectual part is just plain inseparable. Nobody spoon-feeds you how to replace the radiator in your car or write a shell script. It requires an above average ability to reason and self-teach, which to me is intellect.
I've seen the sign.... and heard the gurgle as the froth from pumping a liquid at 5GPM settles down into the oddly-shaped, baffled tank.
WTF shitty gas station do you go to where topping up leads to gas on the ground? I've only done that ONCE in my life, and it was because the gas station didn't properly maintain their pumps.
I'll concede that Jimson Weed is indeed more toxic than LSD. I actually couldn't think of any synthetic psychoactive safer than LSD.
I do, however, call into doubt that going to a rave and taking Ecstasy is any safer than driving the car there. While your reply said MDMA, and my post DID talk about the fact it's a research chemical, my post said Ecstasy. It is likely very rare that when a raver chooses to use Ecstasy, they understand how to ascertain its purity or dosage, or how to properly counteract its pyretic effects. I think that the drive on the way to the rave, so long as *ahem* consumption did not begin until the parking lot, would be safer.
Marijuana, on the other hand, has been shown to make you a safer driver than a drunk. Or a sober person, for that matter.
You have mistakenly called a strength in my argument a flaw.
If you want to compare the two on a biochemical level, heroin is massively safer than nicotine. In Real Life(TM), however, nicotine is generally delivered by burning plant matter, and is quite legal for the majority of users. Because it is legal, yet highly physiologically addictive, many users know of the grave dangers of consuming the drug, but will continue to use it. Many examples exist of users with emphysema continuing to use their drug. On the other hand, heroin could be delivered safely. Indeed, many opiods that are much stronger than heroin are prescribed on a regular basis. For example, methylfentanyl. However, it is illegal. Thus, many sources come from, well, terrorists cooking it in a used oil drum. That, combined with the fact that it is, like nicotine, highly physiologically addictive, makes for just the same deadly combination that nicotine in a cigarette makes.
If I could go to the store and buy myself a tasty bottle of heroin, I would have the assurance that the FDA had regulations that controlled its manufacture, and that all I would be getting in that pill was some heroin and pill filler. It would be safer than nicotine, and probably alcohol. It's prescribed in the UK, as an opiod painkiller, it's rather safe. The point? While I do disagree with the horror that the War on Drugs has caused American society, many drugs that are illegal for recreational use simply cannot be legalized because the social problems they would create compared to the two we have to deal with now would be enormous.
The AC nailed it on the head. Both marijuana and ecstasy right now come from some moron who couldn't hack it legally farming or working as a chemist.
I wouldn't use alcohol for comparison because I agree with you in regards to its danger. I would tobacco because research has shown that many health professionals put heroin and tobacco relatively close to one another, when plotted on a graph with one axes being health danger, the other being addiction potential. Not exactly equivalent, but close
Both are incredibly less health-endangering than tobacco. However, it is very difficult to overdose on marijuana. MDMA, not so much. One is also more likely to identify counterfeit or adulterated marijuana than they are a purported E pill.
I always love these comments: War on Drugs is a total failure anyway. Anybody who wants drugs can get them. It has done nothing to stop them.
Nicotine and diacetylmorphine (heroin) are both of roughly equal addictive potential. One can get cigarettes in any corner store, they are legal. Heroin? Not so much.
How many people do you know that smoke? How many people do you know that do heroin?
Stating that your a professional when you're not doesn't fly in the military, either. Just ask the guys down in Guantanamo. "Unlawful Combatant" ring a bell?
I have a BS, so I'd have to say yeah, making one a more well-rounded person and exposing them to cultures and an environment other than their own would help them to more effectively deliver services to, well, a population that's of a culture and environment that is totally different than their own. If you want to be wishy-washy and take bullshit classes, sure, a humanities degree is worthless. But my knowledge of the human body, especially in regards to mental health, rivals most of the nurses that I went to school with, and I learned and became fluent in Spanish from scratch at university.
I look at a road and don't see why you would need a four-year degree to make it, either. Highway, sure. Surface road? Not so much. Yet, they keep hiring P.E.s. If an accident happens because the P.E. was not properly trained, the same results occur as if I did MY job wrong: Bad shit that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Hell, if you really want to go there, the 3 CS/EE majors I lived with would have ME repair their computers. What's their degree for, then?
They do offer 2-year programs, and some social services do not require that their practicioners hold any degree at all. Hell, my internship supervisor had a degree that was 3/4 "life experience." She knew her shit, but would she know what to do if someone brought their kid in with a cracked head? I'm serious! It HAS happened. I've got a first aid certification because I was an RA.
But, like I said, my 4-year BS is the equivalent of a master's degree in social work for some federal agencies. Mine was a multidisciplinary major, focusing on applying only proven, academically reasoned and tested programs. You would be surprised the amount of effort that some social workers put into making sure that the programs that they administer are proven to show results, work on a shoestring budget, and are (hopefully) applicable across a wide range of populations. As an undergrad, I designed nutrition research: Survey some po' kids, survey some normal-to-loaded kids, see what they eat for snacks. Then, go to another campus and feed one group of kids the po' boy snacks, the other the rich kid snacks. See who's fatter.
I guarantee that some "on the job" training or "life experience" would not allow you to come up with a testable hypotheses, design an experiment, and statistically analyze your results. We do things the same way you guys do, only it's fuckin hard to design our experiments. Humans are fickle.
Because if you think you can do the job, you'll probably appear serviceable at it to yourself and your clients.
Then, 10 months later, Grandma can't get her pills because you helped her find the wrong Medicare prescription drug benefit, and now she has bedsores because you thought it was OK to not move her - she didn't want moved!. And Junior is still pissing the bed, only now he's too ashamed of himself to go to school because you thought it was just a problem of encouragement or "letting him grow out of it" and he never did. Wifey commits suicide because it wasn't really medication like she said, and you didn't know what signs to look for anyway, and Hubby goes away for it for life because you didn't know where to find fee-reduced bereavement help or support group, and the cops got him to sign a false confession.
Junior ends up on the street because he's 16 and you didn't know the foster care facility would only give him 6 months to find a job and the hit the road. Your untrained colleague gives him $75 too much a month in food stamps when he applies at the welfare office, because had she been properly trained, she wouldn't have assumed a 16 year old was too young to be homeless and independent. The gubmint finds out, and tosses him in federal prison for a few years for welfare fraud.
It isn't engineering, but there is a very specialized body of knowledge that you can cause major damage without. You don't just learn these things "on the street," if you're going to call yourself a professional (I'll even accept tradesperson), you need to be trained.
Do you REALLY want a STRANGER taking care of you/your kids/your parents WITHOUT a college degree?
Sure, people can do it. I do a fine job of carving up deer, and was always great in anatomy class, I can cut apart frogs and cats like a pro. You probably won't let me perform surgery on you.
NJ does it too. When I was 17, I got a gas pump handle yanked out of my car and hand because I accidentally tried to pump it myself.
Whatever the reason, it must be grave. NJ/OR gasoline must be ten times as volatile or the pumps must run on static electricity. It seemed to be a capital offense.
In the end, I think it was a safety issue. Old gas pumps didn't stop at the top of the tank. Even modern ones don't. I was recently on vacation in Florida and dumped a good 5 gallons because the station had left its pump handles on for 3 years past the expiration date.
Agreed. I don't understand the grandparent's argument that I'm morally any worse because I got one of my competitors employees to squeal.
If the cops do it to a suspect, and the information is about a murder, its cool, but if I do it in my business it's not? Why should I be worried about the other guy's consequences? The cops don't worry about the squealer getting shot a block away from the police station after he squeals, do they?
Slashdot Mirror
Well, it is and it isn't pointless. In this plane of existence, the inalienability has true meaning. A state that complies with the UN Charter on Human Rights cannot support state assisted suicide, because the Charter has declared life to be inalienable. For the same reason that a state in compliance with the Charter cannot have the death penalty, they cannot make suicide a legal act. Therefore, it is erroneous to use the Charter as a defense to the right to alienate one's life.
After you are dead, you cease to exist in this plane. So, you are correct. Whatever the final consequences may be, that rule that you were not allowed to stop the operation of your bag of flesh is quite meaningless.
I do agree that one should be allowed to choose to end one's corporeal existence. However, an argument must be made for it, as you have in your reply to my post, on moral or philosophical grounds, not legal ones.
inalienable also means that you cannot get rid of it. "incapable of being repudiated" is part of your definition, to repudiate is defined as to refuse to accept or be associated with a thing, or to deny the truth or validity of something. Alienable property can literally be alienated: Don't want your bike? Park it at a bike rack and walk away. You might get charged with some city law saying not to leave your bike parked for more than a day, but they won't force you to take your bike back.
You have a right to life, and you are stuck with it.
+allmymodpointsforever the most depressing happy thought ever.
on whose moral plane?
My parents didn't know any better to filter the internet back in the 90's. they were pretty pissed to see me using BitchX, tho. I probably saw some dumb shit before I was old enough to see it. I'm not sure /some/ of it is appropriate at any age.
Sure, I coulda come out a depraved pedophile lunatic, but I didn't. You know what I learned? People do some crazy shit. Comparatively, my life is quite normal, safe, upstanding, and happy. Better to see/read things for real than have some priest tell you, and then touch your pee-pee in the name of the Lord, anyway.
Still give the man props for that. I'm no fanboi either, I really can't stand Jobs (he ousted Woz, left, came back and killed hackintoshes), but props for taking responsibility for your business.
Too stiff for day-to-day driving, but mechanically speaking, too stiff for the control arms to take. So, replacement with a poly bushing essentially leaves you with a more expensive repair 25,000 down the line.
I used to be a Ford guy, and they make everything too squishy. I had to re-valve my T-bird's automatic transmission because the shifts were so soft. Like your truck, the T-bird's suspension seemed to be designed for it's Mustang cousin, simply not equipped to handle a fatass boat.
There are jillions of other examples, such as automakers using silicone-filled rubber (dunno what kind of "rubber") bushings instead of air-filled polyurethane, even though these will typically wear out during the lifetime of the vehicle.
Just replaced control arm bushings and strut cups on my VW. It's advised to not replace them with polyurethane replacements because it will make the handling too stiff.
I'm cool with car geek. And that geeks are doers. However, the intellectual part is just plain inseparable. Nobody spoon-feeds you how to replace the radiator in your car or write a shell script. It requires an above average ability to reason and self-teach, which to me is intellect.
I've seen the sign.... and heard the gurgle as the froth from pumping a liquid at 5GPM settles down into the oddly-shaped, baffled tank.
WTF shitty gas station do you go to where topping up leads to gas on the ground? I've only done that ONCE in my life, and it was because the gas station didn't properly maintain their pumps.
At least Geico's honest. Everyone else says that people who switch to them "save hundreds."
Well fucking DUH. Why the hell ELSE would you switch?!
(One cynic to another)
I'll concede that Jimson Weed is indeed more toxic than LSD. I actually couldn't think of any synthetic psychoactive safer than LSD.
I do, however, call into doubt that going to a rave and taking Ecstasy is any safer than driving the car there. While your reply said MDMA, and my post DID talk about the fact it's a research chemical, my post said Ecstasy. It is likely very rare that when a raver chooses to use Ecstasy, they understand how to ascertain its purity or dosage, or how to properly counteract its pyretic effects. I think that the drive on the way to the rave, so long as *ahem* consumption did not begin until the parking lot, would be safer.
Marijuana, on the other hand, has been shown to make you a safer driver than a drunk. Or a sober person, for that matter.
You have mistakenly called a strength in my argument a flaw.
If you want to compare the two on a biochemical level, heroin is massively safer than nicotine. In Real Life(TM), however, nicotine is generally delivered by burning plant matter, and is quite legal for the majority of users. Because it is legal, yet highly physiologically addictive, many users know of the grave dangers of consuming the drug, but will continue to use it. Many examples exist of users with emphysema continuing to use their drug. On the other hand, heroin could be delivered safely. Indeed, many opiods that are much stronger than heroin are prescribed on a regular basis. For example, methylfentanyl. However, it is illegal. Thus, many sources come from, well, terrorists cooking it in a used oil drum. That, combined with the fact that it is, like nicotine, highly physiologically addictive, makes for just the same deadly combination that nicotine in a cigarette makes.
If I could go to the store and buy myself a tasty bottle of heroin, I would have the assurance that the FDA had regulations that controlled its manufacture, and that all I would be getting in that pill was some heroin and pill filler. It would be safer than nicotine, and probably alcohol. It's prescribed in the UK, as an opiod painkiller, it's rather safe. The point? While I do disagree with the horror that the War on Drugs has caused American society, many drugs that are illegal for recreational use simply cannot be legalized because the social problems they would create compared to the two we have to deal with now would be enormous.
The AC nailed it on the head. Both marijuana and ecstasy right now come from some moron who couldn't hack it legally farming or working as a chemist.
I wouldn't use alcohol for comparison because I agree with you in regards to its danger. I would tobacco because research has shown that many health professionals put heroin and tobacco relatively close to one another, when plotted on a graph with one axes being health danger, the other being addiction potential. Not exactly equivalent, but close
Both are incredibly less health-endangering than tobacco. However, it is very difficult to overdose on marijuana. MDMA, not so much. One is also more likely to identify counterfeit or adulterated marijuana than they are a purported E pill.
Ecstasy is not safe. Please don't put an unapproved synthetic research chemical in the same category as a, well, weed.
I always love these comments:
War on Drugs is a total failure anyway. Anybody who wants drugs can get them. It has done nothing to stop them.
Nicotine and diacetylmorphine (heroin) are both of roughly equal addictive potential. One can get cigarettes in any corner store, they are legal. Heroin? Not so much.
How many people do you know that smoke? How many people do you know that do heroin?
So you mean someone who's trying to frame a set-up would change the passwords AND the emails to an account in order to help keep his frame job secret?
Damn, that's what I've been doing wrong!
Yeah, well, it's in their job description.
Stating that your a professional when you're not doesn't fly in the military, either. Just ask the guys down in Guantanamo. "Unlawful Combatant" ring a bell?
Pork. It's what's for dinner.
(I should know, I drove US Interstate 99 for years)
I have a BS, so I'd have to say yeah, making one a more well-rounded person and exposing them to cultures and an environment other than their own would help them to more effectively deliver services to, well, a population that's of a culture and environment that is totally different than their own. If you want to be wishy-washy and take bullshit classes, sure, a humanities degree is worthless. But my knowledge of the human body, especially in regards to mental health, rivals most of the nurses that I went to school with, and I learned and became fluent in Spanish from scratch at university.
I look at a road and don't see why you would need a four-year degree to make it, either. Highway, sure. Surface road? Not so much. Yet, they keep hiring P.E.s. If an accident happens because the P.E. was not properly trained, the same results occur as if I did MY job wrong: Bad shit that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Hell, if you really want to go there, the 3 CS/EE majors I lived with would have ME repair their computers. What's their degree for, then?
They do offer 2-year programs, and some social services do not require that their practicioners hold any degree at all. Hell, my internship supervisor had a degree that was 3/4 "life experience." She knew her shit, but would she know what to do if someone brought their kid in with a cracked head? I'm serious! It HAS happened. I've got a first aid certification because I was an RA.
But, like I said, my 4-year BS is the equivalent of a master's degree in social work for some federal agencies. Mine was a multidisciplinary major, focusing on applying only proven, academically reasoned and tested programs. You would be surprised the amount of effort that some social workers put into making sure that the programs that they administer are proven to show results, work on a shoestring budget, and are (hopefully) applicable across a wide range of populations. As an undergrad, I designed nutrition research: Survey some po' kids, survey some normal-to-loaded kids, see what they eat for snacks. Then, go to another campus and feed one group of kids the po' boy snacks, the other the rich kid snacks. See who's fatter.
I guarantee that some "on the job" training or "life experience" would not allow you to come up with a testable hypotheses, design an experiment, and statistically analyze your results. We do things the same way you guys do, only it's fuckin hard to design our experiments. Humans are fickle.
Because if you think you can do the job, you'll probably appear serviceable at it to yourself and your clients.
Then, 10 months later, Grandma can't get her pills because you helped her find the wrong Medicare prescription drug benefit, and now she has bedsores because you thought it was OK to not move her - she didn't want moved!. And Junior is still pissing the bed, only now he's too ashamed of himself to go to school because you thought it was just a problem of encouragement or "letting him grow out of it" and he never did. Wifey commits suicide because it wasn't really medication like she said, and you didn't know what signs to look for anyway, and Hubby goes away for it for life because you didn't know where to find fee-reduced bereavement help or support group, and the cops got him to sign a false confession.
Junior ends up on the street because he's 16 and you didn't know the foster care facility would only give him 6 months to find a job and the hit the road. Your untrained colleague gives him $75 too much a month in food stamps when he applies at the welfare office, because had she been properly trained, she wouldn't have assumed a 16 year old was too young to be homeless and independent. The gubmint finds out, and tosses him in federal prison for a few years for welfare fraud.
It isn't engineering, but there is a very specialized body of knowledge that you can cause major damage without. You don't just learn these things "on the street," if you're going to call yourself a professional (I'll even accept tradesperson), you need to be trained.
Do you REALLY want a STRANGER taking care of you/your kids/your parents WITHOUT a college degree?
Sure, people can do it. I do a fine job of carving up deer, and was always great in anatomy class, I can cut apart frogs and cats like a pro. You probably won't let me perform surgery on you.
What about my bachelor's in human services that's the equivalent of an MSW for the feds?
Do you REALLY want someone taking care of you/your kids/your parents WITHOUT a college degree?
NJ does it too. When I was 17, I got a gas pump handle yanked out of my car and hand because I accidentally tried to pump it myself.
Whatever the reason, it must be grave. NJ/OR gasoline must be ten times as volatile or the pumps must run on static electricity. It seemed to be a capital offense.
In the end, I think it was a safety issue. Old gas pumps didn't stop at the top of the tank. Even modern ones don't. I was recently on vacation in Florida and dumped a good 5 gallons because the station had left its pump handles on for 3 years past the expiration date.
I have AT&T and I can roam on Immix's junk network. Thank god I don't live in the area anymore, and my hometown is now covered by native AT&T 3G.
When I roam on Immix, data rarely functions faster than 56k or so, and I'm lucky to get calls. Texts usually come through with a 2-3 hour delay.
They're junk and they've been junk since they were Conestoga Wireless.
Agreed. I don't understand the grandparent's argument that I'm morally any worse because I got one of my competitors employees to squeal.
If the cops do it to a suspect, and the information is about a murder, its cool, but if I do it in my business it's not? Why should I be worried about the other guy's consequences? The cops don't worry about the squealer getting shot a block away from the police station after he squeals, do they?