Wow, my organization keeps a couple of thousand people happily using Exchange and Outlook 24/7/365, and they're not even rocket scientists. Maybe NASA could use some of our expertise? I'm sure some of the junior sysadmins here would love to help in their free time.
I find it hilarious that you accuse people of being "shills" and stand there in self-righteous indignation about how I get my "panties in a twist" because you like to spell Microsoft with a dollar sign like a retarded child, and then you find it positively offensive that I'm "violently" against a fucking software license. Is that the type of infantile duplicity they teach at the zealot community college these days as the sure-fire way to combat the "paid shills"? Wow, I'm going to consider not working for "Micro$oft" anymore - that's definitely a "battle" "we" can't "win".
Now do me a favor - foe me so I don't offend your sensibilities and then fuck off and die.
Listen to yourself telling me I'm making "too much money" and "ruining it for everybody else". Good lord, and your ethics are so much better than mine, right?
The good thing about this whole issue is that all of you "freedom is what I mean it is" prophets will eventually ruin it for yourselves and the people who bought into your false moralistic techno dogma. It's just a matter of time.
In the meantime, you'll forgive me if I go kill some more kittens. One has to pay the rent.
Oops, you lost me there. So like Stallman said, I'm doing something "immoral" and should get another job? Very nice. Well I guess since you are absolutely correct because you have the moral high ground, I should pack it up and go work flipping burgers instead. Very nice indeed.
Thanks for the "lesson". In the future when you're making these types of arguments, ask yourself what it is that you mean by "liberty and freedom", and maybe you won't come across as the archetypal "you can have as much freedom as I want to give you" zealot.
Please don't insult my intelligence with the "but we're all good and they're all evil" party line, OK? Richard Stallman has an agenda and he pursues it by pushing a license that restricts what developers can do with the source code while claiming "maximum freedom" and the like. Of course no one forces me to use GPL'ed code, but then no one forces me to buy Microsoft Word either, so a EULA is no different than the GPL since none of them involve coercion.
But this begs a rebuttal:
the other for cooperatively universal benefit at the expense of none
Let's do this. Let's imagine for a second that a popular piece of software in the Windows world was released as free software under the GPL. Let's pick PaintShop Pro or DOOM or WinZip or TextPad or any other one. Now, explain to us how exactly the authors of those products would have made any money if they were licensed under the GPL. Specifically after some kid in Romania with loads of time in his hand decided to put up his own version for download and give it away for free. Please, enlighten me.
While you're doing that, remember that there is no difference whatsoever between Stallman calling nVidia "nVidious" because they dare keep their source code to themselves and someone from Microsoft calling the GPL "viral". Stallman doesn't like what nVidia does, but he can't do squat about it, and Microsoft doesn't like the GPL, and they can't do squat about it. So they must resort to FUD. FUD works both ways.
Oh, and I live how you spell "MicroSoft". Hilarious.
I do not know why you defend this obvious hatchet-job published by Forbes
I'm not defending anything. I pointed out that among all the obviously inflammatory bullshit there are issues about the GPLv3 that are valid - issues that people like Torvalds and choice kernel hackers have raised repeatedly - and that have been consistently dismissed with the usual "nothing to see here, move along" line.
Assuming the author knows anything at all about RMS and the Free Software Foundation
It's of course disingenious to say that Stallman doesn't want anyone to charge for software; at the same time the confusion about "free-as-in-whatever" (confusion for normal people, not the normal Slashbots) is all the FSF's doing. They are sleeping in the bed they made. And of course Stallman himself has not exactly told the world how it is that you're supposed to make money while giving away software if you're not RedHat or Novell. And no, I don't include PayPal donations there.
RMS, as far as I can tell, has little interest in damaging the commercial software industry
Huh? He has repeatedly attacked them for not following his mantra. Where have you been the last 20 years? To Stallman anyone who writes "non-free software" is immoral, and by definition an enemy of his ideals. Please, I'd love for you to prove me wrong. Where do people like you who like to sing his praises get off telling everyone else that they "dont get it"? It's very convenient to ignore anything that complicates your rationalization of these issues, isn't it?
"dubbing tech giants "evil" and "enemies of freedom" because they rake in sales and enforce patents and copyrights--when he argues they should be giving it all away." Again, utter nonsense
Utter nonesense? That's *exactly* what Stallman does! I'm not going to argue the relative moral value of what he does, but how can you deny that that is exactly Stallman's modus operandi?
If there are such unthinking followers, I have not met them
How is that different than the never-ending FUD generated by the anti-Microsoft (and anti-everything) camp day in and day out? LXer, Slashdot and just about every two-bit blog and "open source news" site in the planet are guilty of doing the same. It's not Forbes, but it's no different.
The author is obviously going for the "zOMFG FORBE$ Is TEH ZUXX0rZ KILL KILL KILL" crowd, and judging from the comments already in the Forbes site he has another hit in his hands. I don't know about that apocryphal story about Stallman plucking his hair to put it in his soup... but hey, that's what unfunny pictures of Bill Gates as a borg and stupid "monkey boy" comments will get you. You reap what you sow. Hell, the "St. IGNUCious" picture is real enough. Maybe he should refrain from doing that sort of thing to begin with. Like it or not he's the one of the official "spokesmen".
Having said that, and I'm sure this will be dismissed on sight anyway, I couldn't find a single misrepresentation of the situation in the article - everything it claims about Stallman and the GPL process seems to be correct. There is a problem here with the whole GPLv3 - though it remains to be seen how critical it is.
Of course to the very people who personify the "jihadist" term used in ther article all this is a non-issue and Forbes is in the employ of "Micro$oft" anyway. At least Slashdot will rake in a few dollars on a Sunday with all the ad impressions this one is going to get.
Hey! I used to own a Newton back in the day. Then I owned a series of Palm and iPaq deals that left me scratching my head and never really satisfied. But I couldn't go back to the Newton - simply too old. Then I got me a mint-condition Jornada 720 with a memory expansion card, CF 10mbps network card and Orinoco wireless... I've been happy for three years. But I do miss my Newton.
Yet, the problem is then *untrusted* code. A person that runs untrusted code can probably be coerced into running that as root as well.
Interesting, some of the fastest-spreading worms to date that target Windows use vectors that involve explicit, manual user intervention, usually in the form of an attachment (sometimes an attachment in a ZIP file - with a password). I guess all these people who open and execute "teh files for you information" and whatnot are being coerced?
So my guess: zero impact!
Ah, so I suppose the problem with Windows is simply the sheer scale of the installed base then.
Outlook is doing exactly what it needs to do, blocking download of images. If it lacks the specialization of countering these "bugs" that's too bad for corporate sleuths and leakers, but it does not expose the user to anything, this is not a vulnerability and the "patch" mentioned will simply give you an additional option regarding image handling. I wouldn't think the "let me forward this mail with the secret tracking device turned off" functionality was high on Microsoft's feature list when they released OLK2003.
You just insulted him "in style", but the "in style" part is of course debatable.
ROFL!
Wealth is always relative, and never absolute.
Wow, that's deep.
Thus, it's impossible for wealth to be created or for it to disappear in absolute terms
Good lord, you have this all figured out, don't you?
I'd maybe go deeper into it and explain why wealth is relative
Awww, do you mean I'm going to have to do without your explanation? That's entirely too bad. I was actually looking forward to explain to me how wealth is like water, but I guess I'll have to forgo that piece of wisdom. Hey, at least someone modded you up!
but you're a dipshit who is not worth my time
Wow, them's some mighty big words there chump. Tell you what - when you grow up I promise we'll talk about macroeconomic theory all day long. In the meantime, do us all a favor and FOAD. Thanks!
I'm not saying it's impossible - anything is possible. I just wanted good old twitter to explain his rationalization for it. Because I have a feeling he'd probably blame it on Microsoft.
Just to clarify, what you're talking about here is quality of life. It means that you can have all the money in the world but if you live in [Third World Country] you still have to deal with resource shortages, supply problems, overcrowding, etc. The middle class is usually fucked harder than anyone else by the quality of life "index".
I have a friend that came to the US from Mexico. Guy made $60K/yr. Went back after a few years with his savings, set up a business and is doing good. I talked to him a few months ago. He said something interesting along the lines of "I'm making a shitload of money but I can't spend it on anything I actually want, the streets are a mess, there's garbage everywhere, I'm sick of dealing with policemen who want a bribe to let you go after they stopped you for a broken tail light, there's blackouts every day and we only have water about 12 hours a day. But hey, I'm making a lot of money".
It's worse when you go back. Then you really realize how good it is here.
A real depression is no fun for anyone, but those happen when wealth concentration reaches a critical level.
Really? Where do you get your definitions from? Because a "depression" or even a recession (a long term recession constitutes a depression) are not caused by anything like that. Oh wait, you're quoting John Maynard Keynes. Riiiight, I see. Is that what they're teaching in school now? That "hoarding" causes recessions? Good heavens.
When power is concentrated enough, the American Empire will go to war with China
Will it now. Just a quick exercise for you - try to calculate how much of the US economy depends on the Chinese economy. Then do the same calculation backwards. Now tell us about this "war". What are the justifications for it again? Why does it happen? When? How exactly? Please do elaborate. Unless you're just jumbling together "hot topic" words to get some karma like you always do...
M$ monopoly
...ah yes, you are. Silly me, I thought you actually had a point.
Good old twitter. China is evil, "big dumb companies" are evil, "M$" is evil, Kermit the frog is evil and everything should be free. Same broken record but with impressive-sounding words and lotsa links. Karma every time.
Interesting. I seem to recall the bitching about Cox as well way back when. I looked around in one of the mailing lists for the LUG and sure enough "Will Hill" or whatever fits twitter's "expression patterns" down to the "$", so to speak.
Oh god, your creative use of the dollar sign is simply amazing. And "microtrolls"? A classic. That's why I come to Slashdork - the comedy relief never ends.
Of course typewriters and computers are mostly used for work, whereas most people read books for pleasure (even the pleasure of learning, outside of an academic setting). So the "habitual" part of the effort is quite understandable - people don't normally run the bulls in Pamplona for the sporting value, even though jogging or riding a bycicle could potentially be considered "quaint" as well.
In any case, we've been using books for almost a thousand years now. They're not going anywhere. Readers like these will be niche solutions for a long time to come. Still, it's good that the technology gives us the choices.
The second thing to note is that 128 MB is enough for most distributions
ROFLMAO. What do you mean by "most"? Puppy Linux? DSL? Oh my god.
For a year and a half I did all of my graduate classwork
Yes twitter, that's what Corporate America is doing out there. The equivalent of your graduate classwork. Because everybody knows that your experience and usage patterns are law, then we should all be considering switching to Rat Poison and gnumeric. Oh wait, Gnumeric won't run on 128MB if you're opening a file that's larger than 6-7MB. Scratch that!
Puppy, Feather, DSL or Xubunto which do all Win98 ever did for anyone
And there I agree with you - W98 was a piece of crap. However as always I fail to see who these "people" are. Certainly not the people who are running Windows 98 - there's no way in hell the average Windows user is going to install a minimalistic distro with ZERO support. As always you have no friggin' idea of how the world actually works. But thanks for the chuckles.
Interesting twitter. How many indeed? I'm not sure how many from "M$", that's for sure.
Still, I wonder if you'd care to take the time to comment on other pieces of exploding hardware? I wonder, actually, since you seem to be such the big IBM champion if you would like to refer to them as Once again they suck, they don't care and they are going to lie to you about it. Go ahead, I'd love to see that.
I absolutely love how these posts of yours get modded up.
Good old twitter, always good for FUD and entertainment.
Why, because they have not spent enough money?
No, because Win9x was never intended to be used in a corporate setting.
Oh, now I see, you think NT or w2k are more stable and secure. Ha!
Hilarious as always. Are you actually saying this is not the case?
A small business that keeps the books and does basic correspondence may not have gained much from their Windoze
A small business can run Linux, OS X or 'Windoze' (LOLOLOL!) just as well.
The upgrade train
Wait twitter - when Microsoft goes five years without releasing an OS you do your nyuck, nyuck M$ Winblows is finished routine, but then you turn around and actually complain about the upgrade train? That's rich.
A person who has not been forced to upgrade is a great candidate for free software
Read a +5 post in this very same story to see if your grandiose theories hold up:
Since I've never been able to get anything other than XFCE to run in 128MB, I'm sure as hell neither KDE or GNOME are going to like 128, never mind 64, unlike Windows 98/SE/ME which functioned just fine for the most part. Go ahead and prove me wrong. And running a custom haxx0rz version of FVWM doesn't count.
Slashdot Mirror
Wow, my organization keeps a couple of thousand people happily using Exchange and Outlook 24/7/365, and they're not even rocket scientists. Maybe NASA could use some of our expertise? I'm sure some of the junior sysadmins here would love to help in their free time.
Now do me a favor - foe me so I don't offend your sensibilities and then fuck off and die.
The good thing about this whole issue is that all of you "freedom is what I mean it is" prophets will eventually ruin it for yourselves and the people who bought into your false moralistic techno dogma. It's just a matter of time.
In the meantime, you'll forgive me if I go kill some more kittens. One has to pay the rent.
Oops, you lost me there. So like Stallman said, I'm doing something "immoral" and should get another job? Very nice. Well I guess since you are absolutely correct because you have the moral high ground, I should pack it up and go work flipping burgers instead. Very nice indeed.
Thanks for the "lesson". In the future when you're making these types of arguments, ask yourself what it is that you mean by "liberty and freedom", and maybe you won't come across as the archetypal "you can have as much freedom as I want to give you" zealot.
But this begs a rebuttal:
the other for cooperatively universal benefit at the expense of none
Let's do this. Let's imagine for a second that a popular piece of software in the Windows world was released as free software under the GPL. Let's pick PaintShop Pro or DOOM or WinZip or TextPad or any other one. Now, explain to us how exactly the authors of those products would have made any money if they were licensed under the GPL. Specifically after some kid in Romania with loads of time in his hand decided to put up his own version for download and give it away for free. Please, enlighten me.
While you're doing that, remember that there is no difference whatsoever between Stallman calling nVidia "nVidious" because they dare keep their source code to themselves and someone from Microsoft calling the GPL "viral". Stallman doesn't like what nVidia does, but he can't do squat about it, and Microsoft doesn't like the GPL, and they can't do squat about it. So they must resort to FUD. FUD works both ways.
Oh, and I live how you spell "MicroSoft". Hilarious.
I'm not defending anything. I pointed out that among all the obviously inflammatory bullshit there are issues about the GPLv3 that are valid - issues that people like Torvalds and choice kernel hackers have raised repeatedly - and that have been consistently dismissed with the usual "nothing to see here, move along" line.
Assuming the author knows anything at all about RMS and the Free Software Foundation
It's of course disingenious to say that Stallman doesn't want anyone to charge for software; at the same time the confusion about "free-as-in-whatever" (confusion for normal people, not the normal Slashbots) is all the FSF's doing. They are sleeping in the bed they made. And of course Stallman himself has not exactly told the world how it is that you're supposed to make money while giving away software if you're not RedHat or Novell. And no, I don't include PayPal donations there.
RMS, as far as I can tell, has little interest in damaging the commercial software industry
Huh? He has repeatedly attacked them for not following his mantra. Where have you been the last 20 years? To Stallman anyone who writes "non-free software" is immoral, and by definition an enemy of his ideals. Please, I'd love for you to prove me wrong. Where do people like you who like to sing his praises get off telling everyone else that they "dont get it"? It's very convenient to ignore anything that complicates your rationalization of these issues, isn't it?
"dubbing tech giants "evil" and "enemies of freedom" because they rake in sales and enforce patents and copyrights--when he argues they should be giving it all away." Again, utter nonsense
Utter nonesense? That's *exactly* what Stallman does! I'm not going to argue the relative moral value of what he does, but how can you deny that that is exactly Stallman's modus operandi?
If there are such unthinking followers, I have not met them
Really? You must be new here.
The author is obviously going for the "zOMFG FORBE$ Is TEH ZUXX0rZ KILL KILL KILL" crowd, and judging from the comments already in the Forbes site he has another hit in his hands. I don't know about that apocryphal story about Stallman plucking his hair to put it in his soup... but hey, that's what unfunny pictures of Bill Gates as a borg and stupid "monkey boy" comments will get you. You reap what you sow. Hell, the "St. IGNUCious" picture is real enough. Maybe he should refrain from doing that sort of thing to begin with. Like it or not he's the one of the official "spokesmen".
Having said that, and I'm sure this will be dismissed on sight anyway, I couldn't find a single misrepresentation of the situation in the article - everything it claims about Stallman and the GPL process seems to be correct. There is a problem here with the whole GPLv3 - though it remains to be seen how critical it is.
Of course to the very people who personify the "jihadist" term used in ther article all this is a non-issue and Forbes is in the employ of "Micro$oft" anyway. At least Slashdot will rake in a few dollars on a Sunday with all the ad impressions this one is going to get.
Hey! I used to own a Newton back in the day. Then I owned a series of Palm and iPaq deals that left me scratching my head and never really satisfied. But I couldn't go back to the Newton - simply too old. Then I got me a mint-condition Jornada 720 with a memory expansion card, CF 10mbps network card and Orinoco wireless... I've been happy for three years. But I do miss my Newton.
Interesting, some of the fastest-spreading worms to date that target Windows use vectors that involve explicit, manual user intervention, usually in the form of an attachment (sometimes an attachment in a ZIP file - with a password). I guess all these people who open and execute "teh files for you information" and whatnot are being coerced?
Ah, so I suppose the problem with Windows is simply the sheer scale of the installed base then.
I sure hope they name it something nice though. "Ununoctium", "Kurchatovium" and "Hassium" don't exactly roll off the tongue. No pun intended...
Okay... back to work.
It is. It's called TabMix Plus. There you go =)
I do agree that it's a feature that would be good to have in the base product though.
Outlook is doing exactly what it needs to do, blocking download of images. If it lacks the specialization of countering these "bugs" that's too bad for corporate sleuths and leakers, but it does not expose the user to anything, this is not a vulnerability and the "patch" mentioned will simply give you an additional option regarding image handling. I wouldn't think the "let me forward this mail with the secret tracking device turned off" functionality was high on Microsoft's feature list when they released OLK2003.
ROFL!
Wealth is always relative, and never absolute.
Wow, that's deep.
Thus, it's impossible for wealth to be created or for it to disappear in absolute terms
Good lord, you have this all figured out, don't you?
I'd maybe go deeper into it and explain why wealth is relative
Awww, do you mean I'm going to have to do without your explanation? That's entirely too bad. I was actually looking forward to explain to me how wealth is like water, but I guess I'll have to forgo that piece of wisdom. Hey, at least someone modded you up!
but you're a dipshit who is not worth my time
Wow, them's some mighty big words there chump. Tell you what - when you grow up I promise we'll talk about macroeconomic theory all day long. In the meantime, do us all a favor and FOAD. Thanks!
I'm not saying it's impossible - anything is possible. I just wanted good old twitter to explain his rationalization for it. Because I have a feeling he'd probably blame it on Microsoft.
I have a friend that came to the US from Mexico. Guy made $60K/yr. Went back after a few years with his savings, set up a business and is doing good. I talked to him a few months ago. He said something interesting along the lines of "I'm making a shitload of money but I can't spend it on anything I actually want, the streets are a mess, there's garbage everywhere, I'm sick of dealing with policemen who want a bribe to let you go after they stopped you for a broken tail light, there's blackouts every day and we only have water about 12 hours a day. But hey, I'm making a lot of money".
It's worse when you go back. Then you really realize how good it is here.
Really? Where do you get your definitions from? Because a "depression" or even a recession (a long term recession constitutes a depression) are not caused by anything like that. Oh wait, you're quoting John Maynard Keynes. Riiiight, I see. Is that what they're teaching in school now? That "hoarding" causes recessions? Good heavens.
When power is concentrated enough, the American Empire will go to war with China
Will it now. Just a quick exercise for you - try to calculate how much of the US economy depends on the Chinese economy. Then do the same calculation backwards. Now tell us about this "war". What are the justifications for it again? Why does it happen? When? How exactly? Please do elaborate. Unless you're just jumbling together "hot topic" words to get some karma like you always do...
M$ monopoly
Good old twitter. China is evil, "big dumb companies" are evil, "M$" is evil, Kermit the frog is evil and everything should be free. Same broken record but with impressive-sounding words and lotsa links. Karma every time.
Interesting. I seem to recall the bitching about Cox as well way back when. I looked around in one of the mailing lists for the LUG and sure enough "Will Hill" or whatever fits twitter's "expression patterns" down to the "$", so to speak.
Oh god, your creative use of the dollar sign is simply amazing. And "microtrolls"? A classic. That's why I come to Slashdork - the comedy relief never ends.
In any case, we've been using books for almost a thousand years now. They're not going anywhere. Readers like these will be niche solutions for a long time to come. Still, it's good that the technology gives us the choices.
Surely by now you've realised that your humor is about as effective as your "evangelism"? If you haven't, consider this the heads-up.
How do you know that's him?
ROFL.
The second thing to note is that 128 MB is enough for most distributions
ROFLMAO. What do you mean by "most"? Puppy Linux? DSL? Oh my god.
For a year and a half I did all of my graduate classwork
Yes twitter, that's what Corporate America is doing out there. The equivalent of your graduate classwork. Because everybody knows that your experience and usage patterns are law, then we should all be considering switching to Rat Poison and gnumeric. Oh wait, Gnumeric won't run on 128MB if you're opening a file that's larger than 6-7MB. Scratch that!
Puppy, Feather, DSL or Xubunto which do all Win98 ever did for anyone
And there I agree with you - W98 was a piece of crap. However as always I fail to see who these "people" are. Certainly not the people who are running Windows 98 - there's no way in hell the average Windows user is going to install a minimalistic distro with ZERO support. As always you have no friggin' idea of how the world actually works. But thanks for the chuckles.
Still, I wonder if you'd care to take the time to comment on other pieces of exploding hardware? I wonder, actually, since you seem to be such the big IBM champion if you would like to refer to them as Once again they suck, they don't care and they are going to lie to you about it. Go ahead, I'd love to see that.
I absolutely love how these posts of yours get modded up.
Why, because they have not spent enough money?
No, because Win9x was never intended to be used in a corporate setting.
Oh, now I see, you think NT or w2k are more stable and secure. Ha!
Hilarious as always. Are you actually saying this is not the case?
A small business that keeps the books and does basic correspondence may not have gained much from their Windoze
A small business can run Linux, OS X or 'Windoze' (LOLOLOL!) just as well.
The upgrade train
Wait twitter - when Microsoft goes five years without releasing an OS you do your nyuck, nyuck M$ Winblows is finished routine, but then you turn around and actually complain about the upgrade train? That's rich.
A person who has not been forced to upgrade is a great candidate for free software
Read a +5 post in this very same story to see if your grandiose theories hold up:
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=197008&c id=16142623
Since I've never been able to get anything other than XFCE to run in 128MB, I'm sure as hell neither KDE or GNOME are going to like 128, never mind 64, unlike Windows 98/SE/ME which functioned just fine for the most part. Go ahead and prove me wrong. And running a custom haxx0rz version of FVWM doesn't count.
Yes twitter... too bad w3schools is not even close to being representative of the real world. Might as well use the statistics from kernel.org.