I am not religious and I'm sure how I live my life would make you shit a brick if I were your own child. I think that christianity in general has done more to warp the minds of our people than anything else.
However, if christians were like you by and large, my attitude would be quite different. You are a great man. Kudos.
Keep in mind people who shake industries are quite often not very happy people. They are driven beyond balance by needs that are not met or were not met elsewhere, and are compensating for that lacking thing, whatever it is.
With that in mind, I would rather my children be happy and live well than do anything else at all with their lives. That has nothing whatsoever to do with comparisons to what other people are doing except themselves.
I always had the utmost respect for my friends that were working their asses off to get the grades, and it was obvious that their problem wasn't that they weren't intelligent.
Different modes for different folks, that's all. Being aware of yourself, as you are pointing out, is the most important thing.
well I reread, and gather that you are a teacher. You should understand then that you know nothing about me, nor the classes I took or my classmates.
You fight all the black holes you want. Maybe you should suggest your brighter students for some other, more advanced kind of study so they can keep themselves occupied while you help students that need it.
I had a teacher once in grade school... we just got prealgebra books for the first time (rural school). Our class, however, got stuck on percentages (eigth grade, no less).
There were five of us that got it. she handed the five of us prealgebra books, photocopied the tests, put it on her desk and sent us out in the hall to teach ourselves math. We went at our own speed, she came out for 5-10 minutes a day to help us if we needed or would spend a few minutes after class explaining things if needed... and she didn't very often, because we helped each other and generally SOMEONE got it... and we took the next chapter's test whenever we wanted to.
We taught ourselves the textbook in a half year, when it should have been a year, without very active teacher participation. To this day, I don't think she was the most intelligent teacher I ever had, but she was definitely the BEST teacher I ever had, because she made the situation work and work well for everyone. She got to help the students that needed it, and gave us the room to run that we wanted.
So, don't blame smart kids because your educational system sucks. Blame yourself for not knowing how to deal with them.
it's invaluable for a lot of things, being able to do what you need to do even if you aren't "in the mood".
What would be best though, I think, is look for students like you and I, and give them something they have to work for in high school. These days I can sit down and work 14 hours, but it's because I'm interested in and love what I'm doing. Perhaps if in high school homework was more than simple repitition of things I already knew, it would have been much easier to develope those work habits.
or maybe not, who knows? Maybe I was just lazy, and lucky.
For me it took years before I was ready and really motivated enough by something to pay my dues and do what I needed to do to get ahead. These days my homework is 24/7 furthering my ability in my chosen field, with short breaks to make sure I still have a life too. But I want to do it now, it excites me and it's self directed, which removes the "jumping through hoops" sensation I had.
One thing I did find useful taking classes after I flunked out was taking night classes. The students are more excited to be there, the professor responds to it, taking just a couple classes at a time makes homework less of a chore, and you can really dig in and learn. At least, that's what I found. Results may vary;)
I had decent grades in high level courses, good recommendations, varied extracuriculars and good SATs.
A serious (but not famous) engineering school looking to increase their in-country diversity gave me and a few other students with pretty much the same profile scholarships. We all flunked out first year for the same reasons too, so I bet they revised their formula after that. It's the kind of engineering school where a third of the students are local, a half are foreign (not sure how they marketed that, but many classmates were indian, russian, or vietnamese), and the rest were american kids like me... dunno how many others were by virtue of scholarship of course, but I don't think it was all of them;)
It was a great engineering program though, definitely, from what I could tell by when I actually went to class. Some really sharp, motivated people doing cool stuff there too. But definitely not Ivy league or any other such high profile institution.
Where did I say I was a success for one, Why should I apologize for being able to pick up schooling quickly and easily without repetition for two, How does admitting that I flunked out of school in spite of my ability to process information sound like arrogance for three.
I was a kid. I did what I did with what I had, and it wasn't enough when I got to college. At most I am simply trying to say that not everyone does have to do homework to "succeed" in grade/high school, backing up a previous poster, and that for others like me who are in school now, all those people who say "you won't be able to get away with this next year" every year will, ultimately, be right when you go to college.
Your post sounds like someone has is a little insecure about their intelligence. Relax. I'm sorry that relating a personal experience of mine threatened you so much.
some people don't have to study to get good grades. I can count the number of times I did homework in K-12 on both hands. I wasn't valedictorian, but that was because on the classes that did have the "homework requirement", I just ate the 10% loss and got an 85 instead of a 95 because I couldn't be bothered to spend that much time doing shit I already knew.
Still got a full scholarship for college too.
Course, I never learned to do homework, so I flunked out my first year. So I would suggest doing homework just for the practice of self discipline to others, not necessarily for its educational value. Or if you aren't going to do homework, spend X amount of your free time learning SOMETHING instead of fucking off.
they don't have to guess the right slot via this mechanism to win. They just have to narrow down the possible choices in order to tilt the odds in their favor.
I love this, like taking shortcuts to an easy buck hasn't been the 'social mantra' since we first attached value to anything whatsoever, including food.
You sound like someone yearning for the "good old days". they never existed, tough guy, never ever.
lol. I don't know what kind of twisted upbringing you've had, I imagine something along the lines of a catholic upbringing and the thought process you just outlined illustrates perfectly why I think it's disgusting.
A perfect being would be concerned with far more than who was worshipping in what way. Being at all concerned with another's perception of oneself is vanity, something a perfect being would not have. A perfect being's "criteria" for good and evil would have to be far more SUBSTANTIAL than what particular rituals, names, or methods you use to find that connection between yourself and the infinite wonder of the universe. I'm flawed, but I have to say my number one priority would have to be, did you do your best to make the world a better place because you were in it, in any way?
But no one in the history of mankind has been omnipotent or omniscient, and none of us whatsoever are even remotely qualified to judge the motivations of such a being.
The only thing I can say is, vanity is a flaw. God is not flawed. Holding up a character flaw as the ultimate expression of God's motivation is so completely ridiculous I would laugh if so many people weren't so wrapped up in such crap and ruining the world I live in by clinging to such horrible beliefs.
Don't bother getting anecdotal. We could sit here for a lifetime tossing out counter examples.
Planning is better than slapping things together, if you have to do something now, or by next monday. If you have all the time you need to do something, you can dispense with pressure and rigid thinking and simply explore your subject calmly, peacefully, and powerfully.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then fine, it may not make sense to you.
Wow, you picked up that there are pluses and minuses, just like I said, congratulations genius.
sometimes you have to sit down and plan things out. sometimes you don't. If you're just trying to connect people or start a "scene", you may not have to make as many plans as you might have to in order to launch tons of metal and explosive fuel into space, no?
Sometimes the very act of planning limits your ability to react. When was the last time you got mad at someone who didn't deserve it? Those are the times that your expectations blind you to the reality of the situation you are in. Go ahead, tell me you've never done that.
Anyway, Taoism isn't about complete inaction. It's about pure action that flows without relying entirely on concious, logical thought. And it can be quite powerful. Not when you have to plan a huge undertaking on a timeframe, but for simpler things, in which a particular timeframe is not required, you are free to make mistakes and explore to arrive at the best solution. Taoism simply says that most things can be done in such a manner. You could probably say it's more about not being in a rush (and thus not having the pressure) then it is about not doing anything.
because you haven't been raised to see that when you do not put your own expectations on things, and just do them, you see the best ways to do things easier. Their strategy is to do and adapt to what is instead of planning for what they expect and having it fall to shit when things happen they didn't expect, like you often see in day to day life here in the West.
There are ups and downs to both approaches. But they do both work, in their way.
ah, so our omnipotent and omniscient god is an egomaniacal jerk then. interesting. I would have expected more from someone with such unimaginable perspective.
well, it's certainly legitimized the oppressive attitudes my gay friends have to deal with,
it's run my country into massive debt and stuck us with a war that is fundamentally rooted in his firm belief that his actions are the will of god and thus can never be wrong and are destined to succeed against all reason, one that has killed people I know and many thousands of more I never will,
it's diverted funds from organizations that do real good to faith based initiatives that just say "hey, don't have sex, really, it's cool" and leave it at that, expecting a fully functional biological adult to buy that as a good reason to ignore the most basic biological urge we have as human beings,
and it managed to coalesce the previously weakening religious right, a fact that scares me to fucking death.
but I guess if I don't have men in black knocking on my door... yet... trying to forcefully convert me to some kind of bizarre christian cult I shouldn't be concerned, huh?
"First they came for the homosexuals....and I didn't care, because I wasn't homosexual.. then they came for..."
I believe he was smoking crack or was severely misquoted, but had some great ideas. Does that help? I'm agnostic. Once again I don't care what YOUR interpetation of the bible is. That's unimportant. What is important is the interpetation of these millions that call themselves christians. Those interpetations are quite frequently intolerant, belligerant, judgemental, oppressive, damaging, and everything I would consider evil.
However, since you brought it up, it's obvious the primary belief of any christian is that christ is the son of god. That's an entry level requirement to being a Christ-ian, after all. What's important there, to me, is how you then revere the teachings of your savior. To me, those teachings are severely perverted by the vast majority of denominations out there calling themselves christian. Unless you're trying to say that his teachings were unimportant? That all you have to do is believe he's the son of god, and screw what he actually had to say? That seems a little odd. If I believed he was the son of god you better believe I'd be taking notes on everything he ever said and taking them to heart.
But if you really want my deepest feeling on it, any belief system that thinks an omnipotent, omniscient being is concerned with minutiae like whether or not you believe Joe Blow was his son or not is ridiculous.
I think there were far more important teachings that he is purported to have spread, and that WHAT exactly it was that we were supposed to repent, judging by the rest of his teachings, were even more important.
Things like hatred, violence, and intolerance, for example.
I fully agree, but you're giving the benefit of the doubt to what you or I, presumably by your post, would call "real" christians.
However, catholics make up about half of all christians in name, and holy roller bastards make up a significant proportion of the rest. It may all be in direct opposition to your, or my, interpetation of what the bible says, but that is neither here nor there, since it isn't THEIR interpetation of the bible, and all that delineates what these denominations are is how THEY interpret the bible.
I agree that if everyone read the bible and interpreted it with an open and rational mind, that christianity would be great. I think Jesus was a fantastic philosopher and had it right on. However, apparently most christian religions disagree, judging by their teachings.
Sadly the only way my (or your) opinions matter on this is if we belong to or start a denomination that interprets the bible "correctly", and of course that is exactly why we have so many denominations today; many of which are horrible, evil, oppressive bastions of intolerant, rigid, moralistic, holier than thou bullshit. And who's to say that your (or my) denomination is any more right or wrong, since it's all subjective interpetation?
so it's ok for christian groups to use whatever flimsy evidence they can to point fingers at non-causal relationships, push for leglislation that supports their oppressive version of moralism, and generally shout from the top of their lungs how we're all going to hell in a handbasket... literally... because we like blow jobs or RPGs but someone is an asshole for shouting at the top of his lungs that christian groups are often full of shit?
don't you get it? Anything that makes us flesh and blood beings with desires, joy and drive is animalistic and must be expunged. The only true joy in life is the joy of the one true god filling your heart, and the rest is the tool of satan.
That's personally why I think the most psychologically damaging thing you can do to a person is to raise them catholic or any one of the other rigid "moralistic" faiths out there. Nothing like being taught from day one that every completely natural urge you have is evil and an indicator of your own inner sin.
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like somehow using economic warfare to make someone pay attention isn't a rational thing to suggest?
I am not religious and I'm sure how I live my life would make you shit a brick if I were your own child. I think that christianity in general has done more to warp the minds of our people than anything else.
However, if christians were like you by and large, my attitude would be quite different. You are a great man. Kudos.
I'm with you, and I'm not.
Keep in mind people who shake industries are quite often not very happy people. They are driven beyond balance by needs that are not met or were not met elsewhere, and are compensating for that lacking thing, whatever it is.
With that in mind, I would rather my children be happy and live well than do anything else at all with their lives. That has nothing whatsoever to do with comparisons to what other people are doing except themselves.
I always had the utmost respect for my friends that were working their asses off to get the grades, and it was obvious that their problem wasn't that they weren't intelligent.
Different modes for different folks, that's all. Being aware of yourself, as you are pointing out, is the most important thing.
well I reread, and gather that you are a teacher. You should understand then that you know nothing about me, nor the classes I took or my classmates.
You fight all the black holes you want. Maybe you should suggest your brighter students for some other, more advanced kind of study so they can keep themselves occupied while you help students that need it.
I had a teacher once in grade school... we just got prealgebra books for the first time (rural school). Our class, however, got stuck on percentages (eigth grade, no less).
There were five of us that got it. she handed the five of us prealgebra books, photocopied the tests, put it on her desk and sent us out in the hall to teach ourselves math. We went at our own speed, she came out for 5-10 minutes a day to help us if we needed or would spend a few minutes after class explaining things if needed... and she didn't very often, because we helped each other and generally SOMEONE got it... and we took the next chapter's test whenever we wanted to.
We taught ourselves the textbook in a half year, when it should have been a year, without very active teacher participation. To this day, I don't think she was the most intelligent teacher I ever had, but she was definitely the BEST teacher I ever had, because she made the situation work and work well for everyone. She got to help the students that needed it, and gave us the room to run that we wanted.
So, don't blame smart kids because your educational system sucks. Blame yourself for not knowing how to deal with them.
it's invaluable for a lot of things, being able to do what you need to do even if you aren't "in the mood".
What would be best though, I think, is look for students like you and I, and give them something they have to work for in high school. These days I can sit down and work 14 hours, but it's because I'm interested in and love what I'm doing. Perhaps if in high school homework was more than simple repitition of things I already knew, it would have been much easier to develope those work habits.
or maybe not, who knows? Maybe I was just lazy, and lucky.
For me it took years before I was ready and really motivated enough by something to pay my dues and do what I needed to do to get ahead. These days my homework is 24/7 furthering my ability in my chosen field, with short breaks to make sure I still have a life too. But I want to do it now, it excites me and it's self directed, which removes the "jumping through hoops" sensation I had.
;)
One thing I did find useful taking classes after I flunked out was taking night classes. The students are more excited to be there, the professor responds to it, taking just a couple classes at a time makes homework less of a chore, and you can really dig in and learn. At least, that's what I found. Results may vary
I had decent grades in high level courses, good recommendations, varied extracuriculars and good SATs.
;)
A serious (but not famous) engineering school looking to increase their in-country diversity gave me and a few other students with pretty much the same profile scholarships. We all flunked out first year for the same reasons too, so I bet they revised their formula after that. It's the kind of engineering school where a third of the students are local, a half are foreign (not sure how they marketed that, but many classmates were indian, russian, or vietnamese), and the rest were american kids like me... dunno how many others were by virtue of scholarship of course, but I don't think it was all of them
It was a great engineering program though, definitely, from what I could tell by when I actually went to class. Some really sharp, motivated people doing cool stuff there too. But definitely not Ivy league or any other such high profile institution.
Where did I say I was a success for one,
Why should I apologize for being able to pick up schooling quickly and easily without repetition for two,
How does admitting that I flunked out of school in spite of my ability to process information sound like arrogance for three.
I was a kid. I did what I did with what I had, and it wasn't enough when I got to college. At most I am simply trying to say that not everyone does have to do homework to "succeed" in grade/high school, backing up a previous poster, and that for others like me who are in school now, all those people who say "you won't be able to get away with this next year" every year will, ultimately, be right when you go to college.
Your post sounds like someone has is a little insecure about their intelligence. Relax. I'm sorry that relating a personal experience of mine threatened you so much.
I can't? I can't see how that's any of your business. If you think I'm lying for some reason, feel free to think that.
nice sig, great album, btw.
some people don't have to study to get good grades. I can count the number of times I did homework in K-12 on both hands. I wasn't valedictorian, but that was because on the classes that did have the "homework requirement", I just ate the 10% loss and got an 85 instead of a 95 because I couldn't be bothered to spend that much time doing shit I already knew.
Still got a full scholarship for college too.
Course, I never learned to do homework, so I flunked out my first year. So I would suggest doing homework just for the practice of self discipline to others, not necessarily for its educational value. Or if you aren't going to do homework, spend X amount of your free time learning SOMETHING instead of fucking off.
they don't have to guess the right slot via this mechanism to win. They just have to narrow down the possible choices in order to tilt the odds in their favor.
I love this, like taking shortcuts to an easy buck hasn't been the 'social mantra' since we first attached value to anything whatsoever, including food.
You sound like someone yearning for the "good old days". they never existed, tough guy, never ever.
lol. I don't know what kind of twisted upbringing you've had, I imagine something along the lines of a catholic upbringing and the thought process you just outlined illustrates perfectly why I think it's disgusting.
A perfect being would be concerned with far more than who was worshipping in what way. Being at all concerned with another's perception of oneself is vanity, something a perfect being would not have. A perfect being's "criteria" for good and evil would have to be far more SUBSTANTIAL than what particular rituals, names, or methods you use to find that connection between yourself and the infinite wonder of the universe. I'm flawed, but I have to say my number one priority would have to be, did you do your best to make the world a better place because you were in it, in any way?
But no one in the history of mankind has been omnipotent or omniscient, and none of us whatsoever are even remotely qualified to judge the motivations of such a being.
The only thing I can say is, vanity is a flaw. God is not flawed. Holding up a character flaw as the ultimate expression of God's motivation is so completely ridiculous I would laugh if so many people weren't so wrapped up in such crap and ruining the world I live in by clinging to such horrible beliefs.
Like there is nothing in between?
Don't bother getting anecdotal. We could sit here for a lifetime tossing out counter examples.
Planning is better than slapping things together, if you have to do something now, or by next monday. If you have all the time you need to do something, you can dispense with pressure and rigid thinking and simply explore your subject calmly, peacefully, and powerfully.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, then fine, it may not make sense to you.
Wow, you picked up that there are pluses and minuses, just like I said, congratulations genius.
sometimes you have to sit down and plan things out. sometimes you don't. If you're just trying to connect people or start a "scene", you may not have to make as many plans as you might have to in order to launch tons of metal and explosive fuel into space, no?
Sometimes the very act of planning limits your ability to react. When was the last time you got mad at someone who didn't deserve it? Those are the times that your expectations blind you to the reality of the situation you are in. Go ahead, tell me you've never done that.
Anyway, Taoism isn't about complete inaction. It's about pure action that flows without relying entirely on concious, logical thought. And it can be quite powerful. Not when you have to plan a huge undertaking on a timeframe, but for simpler things, in which a particular timeframe is not required, you are free to make mistakes and explore to arrive at the best solution. Taoism simply says that most things can be done in such a manner. You could probably say it's more about not being in a rush (and thus not having the pressure) then it is about not doing anything.
because you haven't been raised to see that when you do not put your own expectations on things, and just do them, you see the best ways to do things easier. Their strategy is to do and adapt to what is instead of planning for what they expect and having it fall to shit when things happen they didn't expect, like you often see in day to day life here in the West.
There are ups and downs to both approaches. But they do both work, in their way.
ah, so our omnipotent and omniscient god is an egomaniacal jerk then. interesting. I would have expected more from someone with such unimaginable perspective.
well, it's certainly legitimized the oppressive attitudes my gay friends have to deal with,
it's run my country into massive debt and stuck us with a war that is fundamentally rooted in his firm belief that his actions are the will of god and thus can never be wrong and are destined to succeed against all reason, one that has killed people I know and many thousands of more I never will,
it's diverted funds from organizations that do real good to faith based initiatives that just say "hey, don't have sex, really, it's cool" and leave it at that, expecting a fully functional biological adult to buy that as a good reason to ignore the most basic biological urge we have as human beings,
and it managed to coalesce the previously weakening religious right, a fact that scares me to fucking death.
but I guess if I don't have men in black knocking on my door... yet... trying to forcefully convert me to some kind of bizarre christian cult I shouldn't be concerned, huh?
"First they came for the homosexuals....and I didn't care, because I wasn't homosexual.. then they came for..."
I believe he was smoking crack or was severely misquoted, but had some great ideas. Does that help? I'm agnostic. Once again I don't care what YOUR interpetation of the bible is. That's unimportant. What is important is the interpetation of these millions that call themselves christians. Those interpetations are quite frequently intolerant, belligerant, judgemental, oppressive, damaging, and everything I would consider evil.
However, since you brought it up, it's obvious the primary belief of any christian is that christ is the son of god. That's an entry level requirement to being a Christ-ian, after all. What's important there, to me, is how you then revere the teachings of your savior. To me, those teachings are severely perverted by the vast majority of denominations out there calling themselves christian. Unless you're trying to say that his teachings were unimportant? That all you have to do is believe he's the son of god, and screw what he actually had to say? That seems a little odd. If I believed he was the son of god you better believe I'd be taking notes on everything he ever said and taking them to heart.
But if you really want my deepest feeling on it, any belief system that thinks an omnipotent, omniscient being is concerned with minutiae like whether or not you believe Joe Blow was his son or not is ridiculous.
I think there were far more important teachings that he is purported to have spread, and that WHAT exactly it was that we were supposed to repent, judging by the rest of his teachings, were even more important.
Things like hatred, violence, and intolerance, for example.
I fully agree, but you're giving the benefit of the doubt to what you or I, presumably by your post, would call "real" christians.
However, catholics make up about half of all christians in name, and holy roller bastards make up a significant proportion of the rest. It may all be in direct opposition to your, or my, interpetation of what the bible says, but that is neither here nor there, since it isn't THEIR interpetation of the bible, and all that delineates what these denominations are is how THEY interpret the bible.
I agree that if everyone read the bible and interpreted it with an open and rational mind, that christianity would be great. I think Jesus was a fantastic philosopher and had it right on. However, apparently most christian religions disagree, judging by their teachings.
Sadly the only way my (or your) opinions matter on this is if we belong to or start a denomination that interprets the bible "correctly", and of course that is exactly why we have so many denominations today; many of which are horrible, evil, oppressive bastions of intolerant, rigid, moralistic, holier than thou bullshit. And who's to say that your (or my) denomination is any more right or wrong, since it's all subjective interpetation?
so it's ok for christian groups to use whatever flimsy evidence they can to point fingers at non-causal relationships, push for leglislation that supports their oppressive version of moralism, and generally shout from the top of their lungs how we're all going to hell in a handbasket... literally... because we like blow jobs or RPGs but someone is an asshole for shouting at the top of his lungs that christian groups are often full of shit?
I suspect you of a slight double standard here.
don't you get it? Anything that makes us flesh and blood beings with desires, joy and drive is animalistic and must be expunged. The only true joy in life is the joy of the one true god filling your heart, and the rest is the tool of satan.
That's personally why I think the most psychologically damaging thing you can do to a person is to raise them catholic or any one of the other rigid "moralistic" faiths out there. Nothing like being taught from day one that every completely natural urge you have is evil and an indicator of your own inner sin.
It's Disgusting, capitalization intended.