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Game Industry Derided For Mature Content
Steve Rock writes "To the surprise of no one, game manufacturers and resellers were again
taken
to task over the production and sales of games containing violent or
sexual themes. According to the National Institute on Media and
the Family's Ninth
Annual Mediawise Video Game Report Card even games with beneficial
or neutral content can be harmful to children because of the connection
between gameplay and our obesity epidemic. Interestingly, out of
fifty
surveys mailed out by the Institute to retailers and producers only
two were completed and returned. The industry was given a passing
grade for the ESRB rating system but the actual enforcement of the
system by the retailers was not -- it is worth noting, however, that
the Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association has stated that self-regulation
procedures were scheduled to be implemented by December 2004 and therefore
tests of retailer compliance to ESRB ratings was premature."
Back in 1954 Dr. Frederick Wertham wrote the infamous Seduction Of The Innocent, regarding the comics industry preying upon the youth of America.
Before you laugh off it off, recall the US Senate Subcommittee Investigation on Juvenile Delinquency in the United States. and all the recent stink about decency in television.
The comic industry, to placate the witch hunters offered self policing. Sound familiar? Wertham considered it a sham. Sound familiar, too?
For some background on Comics Code check this site and this site.
make way! make way! make way for the age of decency! 60,608,582 merkins can't be denied!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
"Go fuck yourselves"
...than violent behavior on the streets. As long as the players are mature enough to distinguish fantasy from reality, games like GTA and LSL aren't a problem.
Do video games affect culture or does culture affect video games?
With all these problems being pinned on video games the real question is it really video games causing all these problems. For obesity is it just because video games cause children to be obese causing them to stay at home with little activity to play games, or is it that children who have a tendency of being obese don't want to go outside and play (for reasons of security, lack of proper parental supervision, or just no one else in the area to interact with) So they will stay in side and play video games, where if there were no games then they would Watch TV all day. The same is with violence in games is it because games are violence causes kids to become violence, or is it that they see themselves in a culture of violence so they enjoy violent games. I am not a big game player and I really don't care for first person shoot-em-ups and having excessive gore. But I feel that these games reflect the culture more then culture reflects the games because the games will not sell if they didn't reflect the culture.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
What I don't understand is that, in spite of endless harping and railing by People With Nothing Better To Do (PWNBTD), has the gaming industry *EVER* been impacted by the complaints? Can someone provide a list of tangible side-effects of all of this criticism? It seems like the gaming industry just keeps chugging along.
Moo
In other news the movie industry and book industry just keep putting out their usual mature content crap.
"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
Content aside, the amount of time kids spend playing games, even the good ones, is contributing to the obesity epidemic among American youth. For too many kids, the only parts of their body they are exercising are their thumbs. We are particularly concerned, therefore, about the launch of games this year aimed at children as young as two. We know that the industry wants to expand its customer base and that it is in their economic interest to hook babies on games. This trend, however, raises serious implications for our children's health.
What ever happened to parents kicking their kids out of the house to play ball outside? Turn off the TV, unplug their game console, log them off the computer and send them outside to play with their friends. This is nothing new and the "problem" is solved. This coming from someone who spends 10+ hours a day in front of a computer and still looks skiny.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
Games Are Violent. News at 11.
Make a donation to the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund at http://www.cbldf.org
What about all of us old people (21+) that want content more adult.
I enjoyed GTA vice city, Postal 2, Quake and would not call them G rated.
I want them labeled for content, with good install/de-install programs.
And if you really insist a password/age checker.
This is my opinion based on what little I know and understand of the rumors and lies Thanks, Randal
Then we can hit the Pole Position for a private dance.
Like being derided for poor, delayed, buggy content.
paintball
"even games with beneficial or neutral content can be harmful to children because of the connection between gameplay and our obesity epidemic."
I've played these games all of my life. I'm not a criminal. I'm not a sociopath. I'm not overweight.
When are people going to start taking responsibility for the things they and their children do, rather than blaming it upon "outside influences."
Kids become criminals because they aren't taught to NOT be criminals and because their parents are too soft/stupid/lazy to discipline them appropriately
Kids become fat because they eat to damn much.
Senator Lieberman is up for re-election in 2006, and he wants to make sure he's way ahead of any Moral Values his opponent will throw at him.
sulli
RTFJ.
Video games don't affect kids.. I mean if Pac Man effected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching on magic pills, listening to repeditive electronic music.
heh heh...
If your kid plays a game with mature themes, or sexual content, instead of blaming the game manufacturers, blame yourself for being a shitty parent. And don't try that "what if he plays it at his friend Johnny's house" because good parents know what happens at their children's friends houses. Excuses are ruining your children. Do your job parents, stop blaming others.
Also, last year the average age of "video gamers" was 27. Not sure what the source was, but I remember it being reputable. Why would companies NOT make mature games? There are more adults buying (and playing) games, so it makes financial sense.
If parents did a better job, the current system would work fine.
How many of the games they're rallying against are really created for children? I'm certainly not going to feed my kids the latest HalfLife or anything. Why not put out some education material for the parents - i.e. "How To Protect Your Own Kids and Stay Out Of My Stuff"?
Good thing we have the wholesome, trash-free alternative known as television to distract us from this video game smut.
Sweet informative mod.
We have movies that don't cater to kids, plays that don't cater to kids, why do the same thing with video games? The generation that grew up on video games are now adults and if we want adult content then give us adult contents.
ESRB did what it was meant to do. It gave parents a way to figure out what types of content are to be found in a given game title.
What next? Is Congress going to hold hearings on hentai next?
Or maybe they're just games, and they're completely unrelated to "culture". I, for example, have little to no contact with pop culture. I have no TV, I live in a progressive town that doesn't allow big box stores (which seems to be the heart of US culture these days), I rarely listen to the radio. But, I love the Grand Theft Auto series. They're fun games. Good relaxation after a 16 hour day of work. Culture has nothing to do with it. I'm glad games like these exist, else I'd be playing mindless, juvenile "Mario" games, which, I'm sorry, just aren't the same thing.
I don't respond to AC's.
Video games cause obesity? Huh. That's curious. I sit around on my ass 90% of the time on a yearly basis, and yet I'm well within my ideal weight.
Oh! But I don't eat fast food. I eat vegetables and fruits and healthy food, and I can count the number of times I went to Micky D's last year on one hand.
And does anyone seriously believe sexual content hurts anyone anymore? We keep hearing this from the Bible thumpers, but year after year, there's no credible study that links sexual content with any deleterious behaviour.
Despite the obvious and known links between violence on television and in games, we say a little word here and there about it, but at the end of the day, the gov't wants violent children (pretty easy to get them to shoot defenseless Iraqis in a pile of dead guys, isn't it?), so no-one ever gets serious about that.
I'm beginning to wonder how enlightened we really are.
fifth sigma, inc.
I agree that sexual video games could really be a bad influence on kids.
The actual "targeted" audience wouldnt even play it IMO, because the their time would be better spent on a game worth their time.
However, I dont really see a real link between the obesity epidemic and video games. I think a better point would be junk food is really helping kids get fat.
KARMA POLICE ARREST THIS MAN HE TALKS IN MATHS- radiohead
I'm generally conservative-minded in my views, but this is one of those initiatives championed by the religious right that I cannot lend a grain of support to.
The "science" connecting juvenile delinquency with mature video games is specious at best, and "bunk" most quickly comes to my mind. If any of it were true, you'd better lock me up before I go on a rampage, because I most definitely fit the profile (knowledge of guns, divorced parents, played Doom) when I was a teenager.
Perhaps these people would be better off trying to be good parents to their own children than trying to force the video came industry to do it for them.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Let's see, a thinktank orginized to combat the corruption of minors by video games and other media finds that video games corrupt minors...
Thanks slashdot. Maybe next you can post an article about greenpeace saying that everything isn't hunky dory with the environment...
They do not want things to change, they want the donations and funding to keep coming in and if they solved the 'problem' they would lose that money.
That is why the GOP never does much about abortion and why the DEMS never do much about race relations.
There isn't money in fixing the problem.
I'd try for a "First Post," but I'd like to include some actual content here.
For those of you not reading the attached article, it is a summary of a report that says that reading an hour's worth of fairy tales to your kids contains more violent imagery than an hour of evening television.
The difference is the medium - parents reading stories vs. children watching TV (usually without supervision). Parents who blame video games for violent behavior need to take a long hard look at themselves first, before making the leap that violence in games is tied to violence in the real world.
That being said, I am all for some additional coporate responsibility to not sell violent games to children under (insert arbitrary age between 10 and 14 here). Ultimately though, it's up to parents to help provide context for these things.
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
In other news, this has happened every year since 1990 or thereabouts (definitely pre-Columbine). I haven't heard much substantially happen since then, and I don't think anything will.
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
My local bar had a sign proclaiming the upcomign Halo 2 tournament. You know, a bar, in the US, where you'd need to be 21 to walk in the door (at most bars).
High School teachers I work with mention having played Grand Theft Auto.
Whatever statistic you believe, gaming is an extraorinarily succesful mass media, and it's not getting there on the backs of eight year-olds alone. An enormous amount of the success is driven by the kids that grew up with the Ataris, Colecos, and Nintendos, and they are perfectly comfortable playing these "mature" games.
Kids connect these M-rated games with maturity, rather than the fact that it takes maturity to logically understand these games. It's unfortunate, but the only people that can counter it are the parents and interested third parties. The store I work at throws a warning on the register when an "M" game is being checked out, and prompts us to ask for ID. Failure to follow through can result in termination. More and more stores are following this process, and we're going to be at a point very soon where we can't continue to simply foist the blame off on others. "M" games exist because there's an enormous market for them. 13 year-old kids shouldn't be playing them unless that child's parent is sure that the kid is capable of handling that game. In the meantime, let those of us who can legally drink, smoke, gamble, and be drafted buy Half-Life 2 if wish.
Nearly anything can be related something if you look far enough. While i don't disagree that there is a link, you could also link reading, cooking, to this "obesity epidemic". So lock your doors and shut the blinds, if you're kids aren't growing up to be sports jocks they could be apart of that "obesity epidemic"
before augmented reality is mainstream. From the article:
even games with beneficial or neutral content can be harmful to children because of the connection between gameplay and our obesity epidemic
I think good games and physical conditioning are going to merge and really catch on--even with those who are not really in shape. Current barriers are miniaturization of equipment, battery improvements, and HUD improvements, but I think we are close.
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
The second link seems a little unfair to the retailers when it comes to the idea of "educating" parents. If they seem to be unable (or unwilling) to read, there's not much the retailers can do. Overall though, this doesn't look like a big deal to me. It seems like everybody is reaching the same conclusion.
NIMF: Parents
Retailers: Parents
Slashdotters: Parents
They've just finished legal procedings against half the male population for just that.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
It's curious to note that arguably the best video game of all time, Zelda: The Ocarina of Time (see related lists at ign, gamespot, amazon, etc...) is decidedly non-violent. Well, unless you consider some very childish boomerang-throwing and lizard-chopping violent.
...) are all within the limits of even the most conservative person's value system. It is clear that blood&gore does not a great game make.
Many other of the all-time greats (Myst, Mario Bros, King's Quest, PacMan, most sports games,
Cleft, Cup, Cright, Cleft, Cup, Cright, bitches!
Link
Most evils were accepted into the culture after some toning down. Though as anyone should see there has been a segment of the population which resisted many of these things and has had some growth over the past decade. We're seeing more of it and I believe it's a natural thing. Progressive ideas have pressed some hard-headed folks so far that they're finally pushing back. Be vigilant.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Best quote
When will people learn that ignorance is not an excuse.
I want 2D games back.
CSPAN apparently carried an unsuitable "best-of" in covering the National Institute on Media and the Family's presentation.
They aren't silly enough to believe that they will impact the compaines, but they do want to raise awarness in the general population that these games are not for kids. It may sound silly, but I know a lot of clueless parents who don't realise how graphic some of these games are. While the ideal parent would be involved enough in their childs life to montier thier video games personally, many do not have the luxuary of the time required. So hopefully groups like this do cause parents of young impressionable children to take *some* time and look at what their kids are playing.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
This isn't about pandering to the kids, it is about pandering to the kids parents who are too fucking lazy to raise their own kids because they have to have a huge home, 2 vacations per year, and 2 new cars every 18 months...
Anyone else have to hit dict.org to find out what that meant?
I get the feeling that the Gaming sector is being once again victimised simply because they're a relatively new target. Most of those undertaking the surveys are probably not incredibly familiar with the industry as a whole, for one ("We never had those new-fangled contraptions in my day..."). But you can hardly say they're unfamiliar with violence/explicit imagery, can you? Perhaps this is more of a lunge at a method of transmitting that (already somewhat questionable) content in a format that the policy-makers can't understand? After all, nothing makes people more insecure than something they know nothing about... Perhaps what these watchdogs need to do is to take a step back and look from the broader perspective. Try asking any of those questions to Magazine columnists, Television writers/producers, film directors or whatever; imagine . Shouldn't we be looking at the entertainment industry as a whole rather than zoning in on just one (albeit popular) section?
Myu:
You can tell they're full of shiat when they rank Doom III above GTA. In Doom, you kill demons. In GTA, you kill human beings. Hell, you kill demons in their recommended game Prince of Persia; the biggest difference is the atmosphere. Yeah, I think that young kids (pre-teen, at least) should be protected from GTA's brand of somewhat mind warping shiat, but this group clearly has no idea what they're talking about, because of the above and because the kind of group who releases this kind of ranking is clearly never going to actually play the games in question, and is just going on knee-jerk press response. Same goes for their listing Hitman, or Manhunt; these things actually are harmful to children. I think kids can handle playing the bad guy, even without heavy moralizing or justification, but not on such an extreme scale as most violent video games. But I think Doom, Half-Life, Halo and the like are perfectly fine, for a kid. If it scares them, they won't play it. If it doesn't, the fantasy provided is the kind lived out daily by tens of millions of kids, all over the world. The lone hero against the alien/demon onslaught stuff playtime is built on. Despite what the progressive immasculation of our society, and worst of all the pussification of our children would suggest, this kind of fantasy, violent though it may be, is inherently healthy. Girls play Mommy, boys play Commando, though I'm all for eliminating traditional gender roles; my point is: boys, at least, need violent fantasy - it's biologically programmed, and trying to unnaturally suppress it causes the kind of desperate overcompensation which causes people to vote for George W. Bush (flame on!). Yeah, playing these videogames instead of getting a few buddies and making a heroic last defense of the junglegym against the Intergalactic Martian Horde is antisocial, unhealthy and degrades the imagination, but the same goes for Disney Presents Mickey and Pooh's Homoerotic Adventure. Not that any of this shiat matters. Good parents already know and are taking action, bad parent's aren't and won't. And the government won't act on it, in fear of the great Cheeto Insurrection that would surely follow. This shiat does nothing except let some bible-farking, holier-than-thou adulterers, coveters and liars feel self-righteous (not that they need any help with that).
The industry was given a passing grade for the ESRB rating system but the actual enforcement of the system by the retailers was not
When I bought Operation Flashpoint from GameStop, I actually had to show ID. That annoyed the hell out of me.
I am almost 30 and I look like I'm almost 30. It's a pain in my ass. The whole business of rating games is just a way to absolve lazy and stupid parents of their responsibility for controlling what goes on in their homes.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
...in a free speech zone?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Videodrome was a crazy Cronenberg movie (1983) about a guy (played by James Woods) who ran a cable company. The show opens with him sitting in a chair defending his network's hilariously sleazy content. "It gives our viewers a harmless outlet for their frustrations and fantasies." His character is so shady, even if you're desperate to believe him, you can't.
But then the movie turns dark. Woods uncovers a conspiracy to control people's minds using television. The videodrome is a metaphor for the combat of ideas in the media. The idea is, we only half-admit to ourselves that the media controls us. We hop up and down to censor it from violent or sexual content. This shows we kind of realize what appears on hundreds of millions of screens has consequences. But we haven't confronted the philosophical, or political dimensions of the fact.
We have a collective hissy fit when Janet Jackson shows a nipple. Meanwhile Fox News is on the air for years and we can't muster a coherent notion for fining them a dollar.
Great quote: "You know, in some countries, like Argentina, making subversive video is considered a criminal act. They execute people for it. In Pittsburgh... who knows?"
Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
Another group of church and civic leaders, the Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility, also urged video game makers to place tighter restrictions on the sale of violent video games to children, including having retailers place them in locations less accessible to children.
I, for one, am sick of Their browbeating.
If their 'family'-based moral system were so obviously good, why do they have to force it on everyone? Surely if GTA San Andreas is rubbish and filth it should be readily apparent and rejected by all.
Their problem isn't that people aren't aware, it's that people are aware and don't agree with their assessments.
By the way, I've heard that "The Passion of the Christ" DVDs have gotten into the hands of children. What a gory spectacle! Why are none of the 'Family' organizations looking into that?
And I choose to spend my time playing games. I prefer games with mature content, hell, I want MORE mature content in my games. I have a lot of money to spend on games. Should the studios ignore this? I don't think so.
GWB and his right-wing zealots can stick with Funtime with Moses(tm), I prefer GTA SA.
The industry has done a pretty good job self-regulating themselves. I'd agree with the ratings on most of the games I've played, and that it is quite clear what all the ratings mean. I've seen retailers tell kids who try to purchase "M" games to get their parents in a few locations as well.
On the other hand, I've seen parents completely ignore the ratings and description of the games time and time again. Yes, I've seen parents at retail locations buying their kids copies of GTA and other "M" games.
I know the ultimate goal for these groups that issue report cards is to get the Government to start regulating the industry. That won't do a thing. The #1 responsibility of if kids or not see "mature" games falls in the hands of parents.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
nymph er NIMF for short.
Coincidence? I think NOT!
If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor - Albert Einstein
I would say that the 60's generation proves that theory wrong...
I don't care how you feel about the content of television, movies, video games or any other media. If you patronize it, you are adding to the very problem you percieve. If you have children, and you find this objectionable, don't buy it. And don't buy products from companies or advertisers related to it.
The government can't save you from yourself, and shouldn't be expected to. We can't have laws governing every aspect of our existence. That's why the Constitution says any right not discussed within it is granted to states and individuals.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. If the market isn't there, no company will produce it and the products you find objectionable will disappear.
I'd really like a list of the games they find offensive. ( Article is /.ed so don't give me shit for not RTFA )
I generally make an effort to read books banned by schoolboards and see shows banned by mayors of NY and often but not always they are pretty good. Can I get a list of the games they don't like so I know what to play? Point me to more quality stuff like GTA.
I'd also like to lay a thick layer of blame on all the moral and religious groups which feel that repressing feelings instead of openly discussing them is the proper way to handle them. I'd like to make a call to remove all children from churches until priests can stop molesting them. Please, think of the children. Further, the lessons in the bible are too graphic, depicting things like brothers slaying each other. What is this world coming to? How about reading Sesame Street books on Sunday instead, those are wholesome. I'd like to further blame religious figures who lambast the teaching of sexual education, though most parents will never bring up the topic until it's too late and their childrens' curiosity provides the lessons. How many children's lives must be ruined because adults are too embarassed to speak about sexuality? Can't we for once actually think of the children?
Finally, I'd like to thank the video game industry, for providing children with an outlet for excess energy that doesn't involve killing people. Sports games, platformers, puzzle games, there are all sorts of interactive outlets for children apart from just watching after school cartoons. I'd like to yell at parents that give overly young, impressionable children mature games. What's wrong with you? I'd like to thank all parents that have decided their 16 year olds are or are not mature enough to play GTA, and took the trouble to, you know, actually think about their child instead of blaming others for their poor parenting.
If not now, when?
All these video games are just propoganda tools put into place by the right wing to train kids to slay aliens, aliens that supposedly have a large weapon of mass destruction. It is in the form of a donut, or something like that...
I'm a fairly conservative Christian and even I have problems with chick.com. Among the more obvious problems, even the supposedly "accurate" portrayals of various events are inaccurate (for example, child molestation in Sodom & Gomorrah). I emailed their site several times to protest this, but they basically told me to shut up and never email them again.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Its the lazy parents, they should get the fail. They should fail for beening so lazy
I was working on a game where you had 2 swords(actual plastic swords), and 5 cameras took input from various angles. I was able to detect where the sword was when you held them, and roughly where your body is... But there was a BLUR when you swing a sword that I couldn't figure out. Maybe when cameras become more advanced to be able to tackle more fps,(like 100+), you'll see games where you wield real life objects and fight things that come at you on the screen(or VR headset). Man, the world really needs to upgrade its computer vision technology. With today's hardware you should totally be able to use a camcorder to video tape an area of land and building, then render it into a 3d world. Its just software isn't there yet, but its being researched.
God spoke to me.
I think the gaming community is getting older. Games are starting to market more and more to older men. This is a good thing in most respects as this will lead to gaming becoming a more legitimate art form and communication tool. Games are getting more mature, starting to address more complicated issues then weather a white block will fall out of bounds. Some times the topics will be uninteresting to some people. For most people they are in a faze that is a bit to graphic or literal for their taste.
As with any mass media it is definitely wise for parents to make a conscious choice as to what games are appropriate for children. Once movies could be seen by anyone, now some are better for adults. Once cartoons were a kids genre now adult teamed anime is either uninteresting or inappropriate for children.
In other words it is not meaningful to say that the game industry is not doing a good job for kids. That concept assumes that kids are the only audience. It is the view of the audience that must change.
Perhaps it's time to start taking those ratings on the box more seriously. Perhaps it's time to get a better rating system. But it is completely futile to try to contain video games in a kids only entertainment format, as it has been futile in every instance before. The world is not kid safe, and thinking that it can be made so is unsafe for your children.
-fire
I defeated that game. Flash porno gamez rule. What was her waist size again???
However, I have NOT seen many instances where one side will say 'Hey maybe it's my fault!' This, however, is not an attempt to blame one side of the other. I think that we, as a society, need to realize that cause/effect do not always matter very much. What we need to realize is that, again using violence/video games as an example, these things most likely have an effect on EACH OTHER.
No matter the initial cause, I think that these influences end up bolstering each other, i.e. games get more of a certain nature, society gets more of a certain nature. AGAIN, this doesn't say which one starts it. Who cares. What we need to start realizing is that there are many variables, each of which should take a look in the mirror and say 'what can I do to make the world better', and NOT say 'It's not my fault, it's the other guys fault and I'm just following suit'
Hope this wasn't too incoherent, I had a long night and a long day.
1) Purchase video game with questionable content. ...
2)
3) You are now fat.
Dude, WTF!?
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
"Video games don't affect kids. If Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around a darkened room, munching on candy and listening to repetetive music."
Hence, raves. (tongue firmly in cheek)
Seriously, video games are not a gateway to deviant behavior. Just because I play a game in which the object is to evade or elude police and drive in a wreckless fashion doesn't mean I'm any more or less likely to undertake such behavior when driving on the freeway. Presuming that it does also presumes that one has no ability whatsoever to distinguish between fantasy and reality.
That said, mature content is for mature individuals. And while I would have a problem with my child viewing violent or sexually explicit content, I would have more of a problem with the violence and less of a problem with the sexuality.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -- Voltaire
...when I was a little 13-year-old kid playing games. That's why I'm now a 23-year-old master's-degree-wielding, extreme-left-leaning monster who will corrupt your children even more. Ban evil, violent video games before they create more like me!
picpix image polls. create - share - vote. fun!
I for one am taking the high ground here and currently producing "Christian Cell" a first person action game that will teach children about the bible while they infiltrate godless liberal political organizations before they can put Hillary Clinton into Office and outlaw the bible.
After being air-dropped in the middle of the night your role as a member of Christian Cell will be to use your bible knowledge, high tech gadgetry and stealth skills to sneak up behind enemy targets, collect information and ultimately destroy the leaders of this terrorist organization.
This is exactly the kind of thing we all (not just /.ers) need to get worked up about! Video games do far greater harm to our kids than moldy old school buildings that should have been gutted decades ago.
Blasting fantasy aliens will shorten a child's life way more effectively than spending a year without health insurance.
Better we concentrate on ending the nervous twitch that excessive gamepading can cause, rather than the total ego destruction that occurs when a parent/teacher/priest molests the child.
Let's deal with children with the warped perception that Master Chief is 'cool', and we can get to the constant cramming of blipverts selling piece of crap aspirations that can never, ever be realized later.
Let's stop the mega-corporations poisoning the poor children's minds with comic ultra-violence, so that they can concentrate on poisoning their bodies with chemicals in the environment, in the water, in the sludge-matic pound 'o' lard flame-wiped shite burger at the local worker exploitation outlet that embodies their future.
OR
We might pick something that actually matters, but that might require the expenditure of actual effort, and change it instead.
It's a judgement call, I guess.
postmodernsideshow.com
World of warcraft collectors box is really sharp looking. No copyright notices, system requirements all that junk. All that is on a soft glue paper attatched to the back. Its flawless except for....
THE %#*%#@ ESRB NOTICE RIGHT IN FRONT!
Now I can put the box up for display and show to everyone that this game is rated teen.
YAY...
Frankly, I think a primary subext of television (news, adult dramas and comedy) is that the outside is very dangerous, especially for children. Self-serving answer: stay in the house and get "reality" through visceral experience. What a sign of the times.
From the commentary: Perhaps the most telling moment of the entire call came when a reporter asked in essence, "Why is it that crime rates are falling just as videogame content is getting more violent?" Without irony, New York City councilman Eric Gioia replied, "I'll take a stab at that" You see Councilman Gioia, context is everything.
There is not nearly enough love in the world, but there is far too much trust.
And that's the problem, but there's an easy solution: all them scientist-types need to go to law school, so they can become politicians.
Have you ever met a politicians who had trouble deciding the difference between correlation and causation? Of course not -- it's always causation!
Fuck the children. Seriously.
Everything's about protecting children, and it's POINTLESS.
You think you should censor movies with swear words? Well think again: they pick em up in the schoolyard regardless.
Afraid to show them boobs? Well, guess what they'll be seeing as a teenager anyway? I'm not saying show them some hardcore porn, but really, Janet Jackson's ugly tit won't fuck your child up.
Afraid to show them violence? Oh, hah, no. Violence is okay in movies, but not in interactive games!
Do your fucking job as a parent and there shouldn't be any issues. The end. Simple, really... unless you're a shitty parent.
Society is hypocritical. Thankfully, the smart ones ignore stupid complaints from the ignorant.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
How can sociopathic and psychopathic garbage be called "mature"?
I'm ALL about game ratings, since I don't subscribe to a gamer magazine one of the first things I look at when buying a game is its rating....why? I want my money's worth. I can play fun cute little side scrollers on flash websites. I want blood, gore, profanity, controversial, sexual content in my games. Sure I play a little Tiger Woods PGA tour for drink (and that gets brutal) and I play PGR2 but my favorite games have always been the ones that push the envelope....Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Grand Theft Auto, Quake, and Virtual Vallerie 2 (when I'm drunk and alone).
c hrist
On a serious note, "Tipper Stickers" (google it) need to be banned...not art, and that's what games are. We are spoon fed the War in Iraq violence and "progress" on the news by the same people who want to throw advisory labels on art. Bush, the religious right, Tipper Gore and the rest....piss off. Enough is enough. I'm not a Howard Stern listener but I support what he does and stands for and people need to support him. Our freedoms are under attack by the same people who claim they are defending them by invading Iraq.
Also, for anybody interested in information dealing with censorship, content ratings and Tipper Gore lookup how the Dead Kennedys and Jello Biafra's lives were intruded just because of a piece of ACTUAL artwork they included in their Frankenchrist album. They mention a little bit here: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Franken
A real adult game would end when you get shot, and as a further measure short-circuit the console so you can't use it again. That would give the kiddiez a realistic message about how fun killing and dying is.
Oh, who am I kidding? I like violent movies as much as the next guy. Granted, I think they're appealing to something that never quite grew up with the rest of me. But even the ones I like don't celebrate violence the way something like GTA does.
Ah, never mind me. I've just gonna crawl off and mutter to myself about all the whippersnappers out there...
"Hardly used" will not fetch you a better price for your brain.
...but the actual enforcement of the system by the retailers was not...
Why should retailers enforce it? The ESRB is not the deciding parent. If we want to restrict what we sell based on what an independent rating organization thinks is appropriate, based on their age, we might as well start restricting things based on race as well. After all - with games like GTA San Andreas who's main character is a black gang-banger, shouldn't retailers in high-crime areas not sell GTA to black people, based on the recommendation of an independent rating org?
My issue is with the statistics on the "Retailer Enforcement". Since when did 34 become a large enough sample set to extrapolate the whole? What was the distribution of stores used? Did it reflect the same distribution of stores that sell the most games? What were the 12 children like, did they match the distribution of people who buy games? I dare say race would be a factor in if a sales rep stopped a kid from buying a game too.
Because kids only have two options regarding their free time, right? Playing violent video games or acting out violence in the streets? I seem to remember a somewhat archaic but nonetheless fun invention that kept me entertained as a kid and still does today. I believe it is called a book.
Most of the people buying and playing today's computer and console games are adults, *not kids*.
Sure, kids play too--sometimes too much--but that is their parent's problem. Parents are too busy suing schools, to take responsibility for the proper upbringing of their own kids.
Precisely!
I am shocked at the things which are trotted out as measures designed to "protect the children." I'm all for protecting children and keeping them from experiencing unlawful or disgusting things, but sometimes it seems as if people take it to an extreme.
SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
And a few Christmas's ago, had the following conversation with a customer who walked in to buy a game:
(Me): Thank you for coming to [store]. Can I help you find anything.
(Her): Yes, I'm looking for that game.
[slight wait as I realize no more information is forthcoming]
(Me): What game would that be ma'am? We carry a lot of games.
(Her): It's a driving game. It's fairly new.
(Me): Ok. [I list off the more popular driving games, ending with..] and finally GTA:Vice City.
(Her): That's it. Do you have it?
(Me): Yes we do. Here it is right here. Do you want to get the strategy guide with that? It's five dollars off the guide if you get it with the game.
(Her): No. My son likes figuring these things out on his own. This game is appropriate for a ten year old, right?
(Me): No ma'am, it's not.
I proceeded to explain what the 'M' meant and showed her that while some games only had one or two 'blurbs' on the back listing what made them mature games, that GTA:Vice City had several more.
Needless to say, she not only did not get the game, she got something else and went home to have some words with her son.
My manager was impressed with the way I handled that, because we had a couple salesclerks that would have just sold her the game.
Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed!
this angers me greatly. Fascists, I tell you! Fascists!
1001100 1100101 1100001 1110110 1100101 1001101 1111001 1000010 1101001 1110100 1110011 1000001 1101100 1101111 110111
Children going to the movies and eating butter-loaded popcorn gain weight. Blame the movie theaters!
Children sitting at home watching too much TV and eating too many snacks gain weight. Blame the TV stations!
Children who sit around and play too many video games gain weight. Blame the video game industry!
I have an idea, how about we start blaming the parents and caretakers of these children for allowing them to be so inactive. It's not the video game industries responsibility to make sure children are participating in outdoor exercises. Besides, I do remember a game called Dance Dance Revolution that was such a big hit that you can now play it at home. I'd say that's a damn good indication that the industry can create games that are physically healthy.
Seriously.
Reading their website makes my brain shut off as fast as any game that promises to be "extreme" and "in my face with an attitude!" I'm betting that most of their supporters are people who would really like to have children of their own to protect, but can't figure out how to do it without subjecting themselves to all the nudity and squishy wetness that making babies requires.
Funny, I don't ever recall reading any studies connecting the compulsive watching of television sports while drinking beer and eating junk food as a contributor to obesity.
Or paintball as a gateway to violent behavior.
Maybe I'm not reading the right stuff.
A guy I know had a bumper sticker on his car:
"Kids who hunt, trap, and fish, don't mug little old ladies".
No, they just torture and kill defenseless little animals. Kids who play video games (or D&D) don't usually do that either.
won't someone please think of the childeren!? if we don't, who will, god?
WTF, Does she know the US government paid for the development of just such a game? And it's avaialable for free download too...
I like this quote from our friend, Joe Lieberman...
"The fact that the assassination of President Kennedy, which broke our hearts and altered our history, could become the subject of a video game from which people are making money is just outrageous, it is despicable, it's unbelievable," Lieberman said.
Change it to
"The fact that the Second World War, killed millions of people and altered our history, could become the subject of a video game from which people are making money is just outrageous, it is despicable, it's unbelievable," Lieberman said.
While I agree the subject matter is tasteless, even suggesting censoring the game based on its subject matter is would be just another step on the road to banning all video games based on their subject matter. Except, of course, "Billy Graham's Bible Blaster"
Bart: When I'm feeling low, you know what always cheers me up?
Todd: Is it love?
Rod: Kindness?
Bart: Ooh, tough room. Videogames! Whaddya got? [grabs a videogame off the shelf, and reads the title] "Billy Graham's Bible Blaster?"
Rod: Keep firing; convert the heathens! [cut to a pixilated video screen. Heathens cross the street, as a Bible gun shoots the Holy Book at them. When a heathen gets hit, he turns into a conservatively dressed man with a halo]
[cut back to the boys]
Bart: Got him!
Rod: No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian.
Todd: Look out, Bart! A gentle Baha'i! [cut back to the video screen. A Baha'i, sitting cross- legged and wearing a turban, floats past. Bart zaps him, and turns him into another suit-wearing conservative]
[cut back to the boys]
Bart: All right! Full conversion! [puts his arms around Rod and Todd] Thanks guys, this really cheered me up.
Video: Second Coming! Reload, reload!
Todd: Can we play now?
Bart: We are playing. We're a team.
Rod + Todd: [pause] Yay!
Seriously, I think there are some things that could be improved on. Games are way too formula, with 99% of development going into producing better graphics to conceal the crappy gameplay.
However, that's not something you could easily pass a law on. "It is illegal to write crappy programs for computers" is too subjective. Although there is a good chance it would finish off some of the worst offenders in both games and business software.
I do think there should be a "lemon law" for computer software. (At present, there isn't, because you only buy the license, not the product, and the license is going to work just fine.)
I also think it wouldn't hurt if the Government sponsored lone software developers who could show they had a truly innovative idea for computer software - including games. It would keep a lot of otherwise out-of-work tech guys in the loop and in some kind of work, which would almost pay for itself.
Finally, when people target games, they seem to be thinking in terms of Quake, Doom, Command & Conquer, Barbarian, etc, which are/were certainly popular and somewhat mindless, but they were never the sole influence in the gaming industry.
How come these critics never talk about FreeCiv, Empire, Elite, Flight Simulator, X-Plane, ACM, XTank, Core Wars, Trade Wars, NationStates, GB Ltd., etc...
Could it be because there are just as many games that exercise the mind as exercise the wrist, and that admitting this would blow their theories into the ninth hell of political oblivion?
Or could it be that they enjoy hating things - ANY things, they're not fussy - that they don't bother to examine the subject to any kind of depth?
I'd like a "lemon law" for computer software, but I'd truly love a "lemon law" for broken ideologists and defective propoganda.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
if you worked for me.
Of course, I would have been more impressed if the mother was actually a mother instead of just a woman with kids.
Interestingly, out of fifty surveys mailed out by the Institute to retailers and producers only two were completed and returned.
Yeah, I don't fill out and return junk-mail forms either.
In Other News... Videogamae players find... that bible thumping white retarded house wifes organized under acronyms that have the world FAMILY in them are ruining this country with their hypocracy and quest to rule the world.
Dear god folks! cant you see... Half Life 2 is bad for you! It will make you masturbate and forget to go to church!
Please stop playing Half Life 2 and Masturbating.. you're waisting your seed... That seed belongs to Jesus, or atleast your local town kiddie fucker...
oops i meant preacher.
You are the devil you shameful porn enjoying human beings. HOW DARE YOU fuck another woman without marrying her. HOW DARE YOU have sex for fun. HOW DARE you be a homosexual. HOW DARE YOU!
There is only one thing i have to tell these family organizations.... and that is:
If you continue this holy quest to control our lives, i will be forced to buy a gun a kill you. Many others will pick up arms like me and fight side by side in a civil war to prevent this theocracy from infecting our lives any further.
It is not books, music, and entertainment that make us jack off, fuck each other and enjoy life... Thats our natural behavior as humans. Its about time you stop trying to control humans with your religious fairy tales and start jacking off like real human beings do.
Its not the games that make people violent, it's the lack of freedom that makes people violent. What makes people violent is when they feel they are out of control their lives and have been tortured by other human beings without a single care for their well being.
Time and time again that has been proven through out history.
Leave my sex and violence alone, and i'll allow you to enjoy your even more offensive bible. The fairy tale books that you retarded dumb house wifes read say other things that just "violence is wrong, homosexuals are wrong, jerking off is wrong, and abortion is wrong". I suggest you learn the other aspects to your religion such as tolerane.. and if you cant....
Here is a fucking clue...
It's America, and tough fucking titty.
If the jesus freaks really want to go down this route... Lets do it. Civil War.
Its not the idea of losing my entertainment that makes me violent over this... its the idea of losing my country and allowing these fucking morons to own it, that makes me insane.
Try reading dr sues books instead of the bible.. Start there you fucking culture nazis
that is good enough for me. I don't let my kids play anything without looking at the rating. Why take the companies to task? They are the ones that came up with the rating system and are still crying over violence or content? Just like a tv. If you don't like it change the channel or turn it off. They are just giving themselves more exposure....and at the same time, the same video games they are criticizing.
doofus.
Good grief it's like talking to children around here somethimes...
Then do not live in the city, there are a lot of places in the USA that do not have near the crime problem that the large cities do.
Some of the gamer women I know are really hot. (A couple of them way hotter than anything Jack Chick's cronies have ever drawn). Most of the hot wiccans play the White Wolf system, though; not D&D.
And verily it was some good shit.
First I was personally responsible for destroying America cause I'm gay. Now they want my Xbox too? Well they can pry GTA-SA outta my cold, dead hands.
Are the submitter, editor and the 100 odd posters so incensed by this as to forget the meaning of common English words?
Dictionary definition:
Main Entry: deride
Pronunciation: di-'rId, dE-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): derided; deriding
Etymology: Latin deridEre, from de- + ridEre to laugh
1 : to laugh at contemptuously
2 : to subject to usually bitter or contemptuous ridicule
Or did I miss something when reading the story, perhaps there was a reference to Senator Lieberman subjecting amoral game publishers to a withering barrage of yo mama jokes.
Obesity. They say we're in the middle of an obesity epidemic. An epidemic like it is polio. Like we'll be telling our grand kids about it one day. The Great Obesity Epidemic of 2004. "How'd you get through it grandpa?" "Oh, it was horrible Johnny, there was cheesecake and pork chops everywhere." Nobody knows why were getting fatter? Look at our lifestyle. I'll sit at a drive thru. I'll sit there behind fifteen other cars instead of getting up to make the eight foot walk to the totally empty counter. Everything is mega meal, super sized. Want biggie fries, super sized, want to go large. You want to have thirty burgers for a nickel you fat mother fucker. There's room in the back. Take it! Want a 55 gallon drum of Coke with that? It's only three more cents.
Sometimes you have to suffer a little bit in your youth to motivate yourself to succeed in later life. Do you think if Bill Gates got laid in high school, do you think there'd be a Microsoft? Of course not. You got to spend a long time in your own locker with your underwear shoved up your ass before you start to think, "You'll see. I'm going to take of the world of computers! I'll show them."
From "Underwear goes inside the pants" by Lazy Boy
First-person shooters are the devil too!
Unsurprizingly.. there was a lot of criticism of video games even back in the Pac-Man days.
Although not for violence. The big scare back circa 1982, if I recall, was that kids would become so addicted to arcade games that they'd start commiting crime to get money to play them.
Well, it's 20 years later and the crime pandemic seems not to have happened.
(Although there is more 'power-pill' related crime now. Doesn't seem like the kids learned to 'Just Say No' either..)
For those who have missed this stuff, Homer's latest efforts encourage minors to daydream, imagining themselves fighting pointless battles against African coastal cities,killing the men, enslaving the women and carrying off the treasure. Frequently the good guys get killed by the bad guys, and in the latest release the player who scores the most points does so by shooting large numbers of men and hanging prostitutes from a clothesline, after completing a set of tasks which include having frequent sex with a variety of women none of whom seem to have any male relatives to take care of them.
In a press conference, a High Priest of Ba'al said that listening to this kind of thing would lead in the end to anti-social behavior such as refusing to take part in infant sacrifice....oh, I can't go on, it's impossible to satirise these guys. Even the Onion finds that reality just outruns their imaginations.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
what a geeky bar -- lots of hells angels there?
I think I remember the scene in Roadhouse where they are all playing Halo2 and some guy comes in wearing a Marios Brothers costume and picks a fight..
Anyone out there besides me catch congressional proceedings about this on CSPAN? There was more nudity on there than anything else I've seen on 'normal' cable tv (green wobbly scrambled porn doesn't count). They showed a bunch of tit shots from The Guy Game and some clip of a piece of wood humping some cartoon girl in all sorts of different positions. Freakin' hillarious. Nothing was blurred out, just some message on the bottom saying the program may contain nudity and adult content. Makes me glad I didn't program out CSPAN and CSPAN2 on my TV. I wonder how many complaints the FCC will get about this. Went way beyond some 2 second flash of Janet's boob.
Rampant Ninja related crimes these days...Whitehouse is not the exception
They had a video during their live presentation which was attended by Senator Lieberman and covered by CSPAN. I didn't realize what it was, at first, because I was flipping through channels when I saw DOOM III being played. It turns out the video they were playing was a montage of various "problematic" games, including GFA and others, designed to show just how inappropriate to kids they were.
Towards the end, they showed the latest Leisure Suit Larry game and something called The Guy Game. The Guy Game, for those of you that aren't familiar with it, seems to be a trivia-type game that allows you to see real video of real girls taking off their tops when you answer correctly. Can you guess where this is going? Sure enough, their demo showed full boobage, which CSPAN did not censor. There were a good 5-10 seconds of actual, real (or at least not simulated) breasts running on CSPAN! This has got to be a first. Thank you, Senator Lieberman!
Jesus, you've brought it hook line a sinker.
1: Working in an office makes you fat, so sue your imployer for not making you do manual labour.
2: Don't east do much you fat fucks.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
From what I saw, they did raise a few interesting points -- the AO rating, for example... Based on some of the clips they showed from the M rated games, even I began to wonder what it took to bump a game from M to AO. I guess only the makers and purchasers of "Singles" know for sure. I figure that ESRB M is sort of like MPAA R (just like NC-17, apparently few retailers will carry AO), and I'm thinking that if they were from movies, some of those clips would would have pushed the MPAA to NC-17, especially if you consider Team America had a tough time getting an R, and it's all puppets. The speaker essentially said why have an AO rating, if there isn't anything that can bump you into AO teritory?
On the other hand, you could easily argue that these rating systems make parents feel they don't need to pay attention to what their children are playing, and that's probably bad.
We apologize for the preceding message. All those responsible have been sacked.
Oh Candada ...
If porn is legal, and violent R-rated movies are legal, then whats the problem with GTA?
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
This "report card" almost is a work of fiction. Whoever wrote it obviously isn't too involved with the subject matter with which it is concerned.
On the one hand they are told by the industry to pay attention to the ratings. On the other hand the industry denies that any of these games are harmful.
There's a reason for this. They're telling the truth when they say it doesn't matter (which personally I've never heard from the industry) and trying to avoid lawsuits when they tell you to pay attention to the ratings. If parents weren't so ambitious to sue, perhaps the truth could be out there.
Now I'm going to point out two statements they made the contradict each other:
The important thing to remember, therefore, is that video and computer games are powerful-for good and for bad.
the amount of time kids spend playing games, even the good ones, is contributing to the obesity epidemic among American youth.
Now I'll address the second quote. I read their references. They don't cite one work to which they attribute this claim. Its annotated, so they show what they "learned" from each article. None of them had to do with obesity's relation to video games. One had to do with health, but did not have to do with video games.
the distinction between AO as not appropriate for persons under 18 and M as not appropriate for persons under 17 is impossible to decipher
I don't see why they have so much trouble understanding this. M rated games say they are recommended for those who are 17+. AO rated games say that they should not be sold to anyone under 18. That's a big difference. One's a recommendation, the other's a mandation.
And to wrap it up:
Why won't retail leaders answer questions about the games they sell?
Why won't you accept that you're a biased group who would twist anything they said to try and make it fit your agenda?
But as other posters have noted, even if most stores honor their ratings code and don't sell, the kids will still get these games if they are available. Children are canny consumers. I remember as a kid growing up, most young people of my peer group knew the places where you could buy cigarettes and alcohol, for example. And with the Internet there are other ways to get ahold of a game, making it even easier to get the content.
So ultimately, you can't really "save" a kid from being exposed to this sort of media. So the ones who affect how they deal with that exposure are the parents. If they are actively involved in their child's life, they are the ones who can be at least generally aware of what they are doing on their computers or console games. Of course, parents cannot protect their children 100%, since the kids can always go over to a friend's house to play, but they can inculcate in the child the values needed for a child to place the violence in his/her surrounding culture into the proper context.
Unfortunately, these days many (not all) parents are dodging these responsibilities, and leave the media to raise their kids (television, video games, the Internet, peer groups). Then they bitch when they come home and see their kid playing GTA. In this context, the easiest solution from their point of view is to ban/regulate the content.
You can't put the genie back into the bottle. Porn, violence, a whole slew of sick shit... it's out there, and it ain't going away no matter how much the radical right shrieks and moans. People want this content, and not just the depraved liberals and scrubby proletarians.
I thought it was ironic that there was a piece in my local paper last week juxtaposing the triumph of "values/morals" in the recent election with the popularity of trash TV. The conservatives get all bent out of shape when a naked woman embraces a football player on TV, and yet ratings show that the smutty dramas and vapid reality shows are being watched eagerly by these same people who voted the "moral" ticket. Hypocrites.
OK... any under 17 /.ers ever been carded / refused when trying to purchase an "M" rated (17+) game? An "AO" (18+) game? If so, where?
We apologize for the preceding message. All those responsible have been sacked.
While you are right about games reflecting the culture within which they are made, you are forgetting about the concept of "pushing the envelope". This is what exposes people to something new and outrageous until it becomes mundane, and then the cycle repeats.
20 years ago I would not have believed that the most popular video game would star a career criminal engaging in such acts as having sex with a hooker, then running over her with a stolen car. But, here we are. What do we have to look forward to in another 20 years? I shudder to think about it...
All your base are belong to us.
It did affect, not in any large sense, but it was affected.
Games like GTA use sex and violence as a crutch. I mean, do we really need to be able to pick up a prostitute, have sex with them, then run them over to get our money back?
Is it good for society in general to always present women as sex pots? GTA pretty much presents women as prostitutes, that's it. There has to be some effect on people (especially the younger crowd) to seeing that day in and day out.
GTA itself has incredible gameplay, but I wish they would be a bit more responsible and not use sex as a crutch to accomplishing their success.
So tell me, how do you get the bloodstains out of your pillowcase?
<P>You just reminded me, I haven't stopped beating my wife yet!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Even games with beneficial or neutral content can be harmful to children because of the connection between gameplay and our obesity epidemic.
Yeah and one benifit of adult games is they give you a little exercise.
*snicker*
...more adult content.
I'm in my early 30's. Card me all you want at the counter. Grand Theft Auto should not be in the hands of minors anyway. But at the same time present me, a "grown-up", with the choice of titles with pure adult content.
Then we will all be happy. Well, until they decide to take their crusade further, which is the fear I suppose.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
I played tons of video games growing up. My favourite was Castle Wolfenstein on the Apple II and later Doom and Quake.
Look what happened to me! Studied journalism, got a law degreee, passed the bar and practised for years, bought a house and got married, paid off my debts, quit the law and took up writing literary fiction.
OH MY GOD!
Why don't these morons encourage parents to interact constructively with their kids vs. telling parents how harmful everything is. Then kids will be able to look after themselves in the long run. What I find peculiar is my friends' sheltered children... I find them SCARY!
As far as I'm concerned, there's not enough adult content out there in games. I can find better adult entertainment in 5 minutes on the web than in all the Playstation & PS2 games made.
At least mafia-owned pizzarias make excellent pizza. Compare to Bill Gates.
Doom 3
The Basics:
Platform: PC
Developer: ID Software
Price: $50
ESRB rating: M (Mature)
Summary: As bloody as games get
Note: The level of fear, blood, gore and violence make Doom 3 a poor choice for kids of all ages.
Further Breakdown:
Overall rating: 1 out of 5 stars
Best for ages: 17+
Playability: Controls are simple, but the game is difficult to master
Graphics: The best of the best
Entertainment value: Low
Educational value: None
Reading Level: 8+
Ages 3-7: Red
Ages 8-12: Red
Ages 13-17: Red
Violence Amount: Red
Fear: Red
Illegal/harmful: Yellow
Language: Green
Nudity: Green
Sex: Green
I'm reminded of a quote from one of my favorites, High Fidelity - "What came first, the music or the misery? People worry about kids playing with guns, or watching violent videos, that some sort of culture of violence will take them over. Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands, literally thousands of songs about heartbreak, rejection, pain, misery and loss. Did I listen to pop music because I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?"
GTA is a great great series, and I see no problem placing it on par with other highly-appraised, and highly violent movie series (Godfather or Rambo, anyone?). They are great, but they are great for adults, not for children.
But I really think that the developers are to fault for a small part. Innovation has bottomed out in gaming as of recent, IMO. The reason that these violent games are the "hot" games is that they are the only one's being made. The masses have finally caught on to the gaming fad and are spending $$ on it left and right. The 17 - 25 year old crowd is being targeted and lil brother wants to be just like big bro, but there is nothing out there for him that is non-violent, fun, and INNOVATIVE.
Developers are facing a rather bitter-sweet scernario as of late. They have targeted and tapped into the best demographic to which to sell their productsm but at the same time, they leave out the demographic that formally was their most major supporter only a few years ago: Children and teenagers. If this problem is going to be solved, parents AND developers are going to have to step to the plate and change it.
The same day the Senate was holding a meeting on this in the Dirkson Building (and C-Span was headlining it), Drudge coincidentally was running a story about a 13-year-old boy seemingly reenacting some of those videogames in real life.
and just last night, on the Tonight Show, Snoop Dogg told Jay Leno that video games are a great influence on kids. He said that they're keeping kids out of trouble, off the streets. They're giving kids something fun to do together at home. He wished that they were around when he and his friends were growing up.
There's nothing wrong with violence, sexuality, etc etc - it's all about placement. Teach your kids that stress relief by acting out frustrations on your opponents is different than whacking around another kid in a playground. Hunting in the wilds is different than blowing people away with a shotgun, etc etc.
Personally I'm still more afraid of the influence upon children of today that post 9-11 is giving (hey, let's go blow up some countries because they might harbour terrorists, and it's ok to lock up a few innocents and torture information out of them because we need to catch the real bad guys).
Marijuana is addictive. To prove this to yourself, simply stop taking marijuana for the next 6 months. Don't toke even once. Not so easy to do, is it? (Note, this only works if you currently smoke marijuana.)
Anyone who has smoked heavy amounts of marijuana or has smoked regularly and then quit for one reason or another knows that marijuana is indeed addictive. It just doesn't feature the same depth and width of withdrawal as many other drugs and alchohol has.
Every Pothead likes to claim how marijuana isn't addictive, but when pressed to quit, they come up with excuses or even say that they can't get by without it.
I have a friend that moved back from across the country that was desperately wanting to get ahold of some marijuana and was at an elevated emotional state proclaiming to me how much he needed it in his life. He heavily suggested to me that if I didn't help him, he was likely going to become an alchoholic because if he couldn't smoke pot, he was going drink large quantities of beer. That's a fact.
I know more then a few people in that boat and was in that same boat myself. Luckily, I quit, moved on from that part of my life and have found that no longer smoking pot was the most positive thing I ever could have done.
Yet, you claim Pot isn't addictive. Hmmm...
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
The National Rifle Association's online store already carries X-Treme Accuracy Shooting, a sniper training game. "If you like guns, you will love this game." For sex and gun freaks, they have Kill It and Grill It, with a cover showing women in sexy tops carrying big guns. For those who like to shoot while drinking, or drink while shooting, there's the NRA hip flask. So the NRA's already pushing violence, sex, and booze. They make GTA look like small-timers.
And, of course, one of the best selling games of all time continues to be Deer Hunter, now with "ultra realistic environments", "accurate animal behavior" and "addictive gameplay".
So if you're in the game industry and getting flak from "family" groups, give them a tour of the gun nut world and see what they have to say about that.
N...I...M...F....
Nimf? As in, red hot nympho lesbian twins action? Stop, it's too much!
Even though it's funny try a different analogy next time.
Problems with the environment can be proven, video game corrupting minors is in the eye of the beholder.
So if you're in the game industry and getting flak from "family" groups, give them a tour of the gun nut world and see what they have to say about that.
Yeah, and the same group of people who gave you the right to play violent video games was also a group of "gun nuts" who'd obviously have it no other way.
Bitch about it all you want but I don't see the NRA protesting your right to game.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
are made by the authors of this report, I'm guessing.
First of all, that the gaming industry really gives two shits about their opinion...and secondly, that it even *should*.
The thing that never ceases to amaze me about such hypocrites is that they themselves were most likely all loyal Bush voters in the last election. Have America (and by extension, other parts of the planet) run by a cabal of inhuman, genocidal fascist monsters, and that's fine. A hundred thousand dead civilians in Iraq is perfectly acceptable, (and necessary, according to the types I suspect this group are comprised of) and yet they take exception to some 14 year old disassembling pixels on a screen?
Until they feel like doing something about the whale-sized camel in Iraq, they can leave straining FPS gnats for someone who cares. I'd prefer to listen to someone who is interested in dealing with the big, genuinely important issues first, before going after small stuff like this.
Man is the most recent in a chain of evolving species
vs.
Man was created by [insert god name here]
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
This kinda stuff goes way back in American history.
See feminist Margaret Sanger's description of the 1873 Comstock laws.
Joseph Lieberman should just go fuck himself. He is the worst thing to happen to democrats in 100 yrs. What a fukin loser, should i just call him Orin Snatch now?
Yo jo! Get a Fuckin Clue you DUMBASS. The responsibility of parenting lies with...GUESS WHAT? parents.
If peeps would not have children that would be best. But, if dumbasses are going to procreate, please let them actually be called to task to parent their children, NOT set them in front of a tv/video/etc to space off from the age of 3-18. Teach them the ability to distinguish right/wrong and actually monitor their time.
sick of loser "christians" and "moral" bastards telling others what to fucking do. FUCK OFF YOU DIVORCING, SELF RIGHTEOUS, PSEUDO CHRISTIAN HYPOCRITS.
Oh wait, the sentors beating this drum are Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) and one of my beloved *cough* senators, Herb Kohl (D-WI). Again.
I have a hard time excepting MediaFamily.org as a credible organization. The devil is definately in the details when it comes to ariving at a rating for a game. They have recommend "prince of persia" for teenage gamers. The esrb gave it a mature rating. I've played this game and it features graphic beheadings, the M rating is deserved. Clearly the esrb is better equiped to educate parents than mediafamily.org.
How does the game industry (who makes games) have anything to do with the retail industry (who isn't supposed to be selling these games to minors) or the parental industry (who are ultimately responsible for controlling their kids)? Its not their problem, they have no control over what happens to that CD after it leaves the factory, as long as they stick the right rating label on it they should be able to do what ever the hell they like, just like any other industry - guns, chemicals, drugs etc. Now im not happy that Monsanto gets to spill all their crap in the air but thats the law and until for example gun manufacturers are forced to make their guns 'less' powerful, why should games manufacturers be forced to make their games 'less' violent?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
A few hundred years ago, everyone knew what a fairy was. It was the equivalent of a modern grey alien. They might, for example, cast a glamour on you, or abduct your children and replace them with a changeling.
The new wave of children stories, such as those by Perrault, were considered to corrupt children's minds in much the same way as a fairy would. Hence, they were derisively referred to as "fairy tales".
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Shame on Canada.
In related news: Minorities are changing the color of their skin in compliance with the KKK's 'Most Impure Ethnicities' list, Jews are shooting themselves after Nazis released their 'Reasons to Kill Everyone' list, and most of the US has atomic-bombed itself into oblivion after hearing Bin Laden's ''
More 'Ban Video Games, Kill Traitors' lists were on the way - thanks to inspiration from IEMA's heroic cowardice - but other such conservative groups had gotten into arguments, shooting and killing each other before finishing, in debates over which video games the Furor and Bush would have preferred. Final Fantasy was a favored candidate. "We would like to focus practical violence on more constructive activities such as killing Iraqis and bombing abortion clinics." said a spokeswoman during an ESRB meeting.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
Uhm, people should play more Dance Dance Revolution :-)
there is no impairment of coordination, most activites you can do sober you can do stoned.
.. you do nothing but harm the cause and make us all look like idiot potheads.
If and when marijuana is legalized, I hope that they have the sense to outlaw things like driving and operating heavy machinery while stoned. You *are not* the same stoned as sober, marijuana affects your brain, just like alcohol, and I sure as hell wouldn't want some tweaker cruising down the freeway being distracted by some trivial thing on the side of the road while my kids were out playing.
It is just common sense.
Maybe they should just watch Supersize Me or something.
Will that be the sequel to "Billy Graham's Bible Blaster"?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Common sense should tell parents to READ THE RATINGS before buying these types of games for their kids. That's what it was made for.. duh. Retailers should enforce the ratings a little bit more, like oh, asking for ID. Wal-Mart was supposed to be doing that but it appears they're not.
Vote Democrat: The ass you save may be your own.
These Ratings are GUIDELINES and should not be imposed by stores.
Unless it is a law I don't want stores imposing limits on what can and can't be bought by my children, that is up to me, I am raising them, not some group who deems halo2 bad but jax3 good (which in both you destroy "teh evil").
I know this might seem radical but it is truely up to the parents to guide their children in what is right and wrong, good and bad for them to experience while they are growing.
It's not like banning them or labeling them with a "code" maks them any less accessible (esp with bitorrent).
SO in conclusion thanks to all of the people who are behind this ratings crap (for movies, games, tv, etc...) for making sure that everything is watered down to the point where nobody could ever possibly be offended or *gasp* see reality as it pretty much already exists.
Eugenics
Euthenasia
Ethnic Cleansing
I would hardly characterize the Bill of Rights as a "Progressive Idea" in light of the traditional and current nature of "Progressives"
"Reactionary" is how Progressives usually define Liberty.
It was just yesterday that the mainstream news channels were all rreporting this, and the tone reporters were using was all much the same, using phrases like "games your kids are playing". Next they'd show footage of Grand THeft Auto San Andreas, a game rated as Mature (ie: NOT for kids). I love how news reporting today consists of reading off a teleprompter what some corporation or other shill has written for them, rather than doing some fact-checking and realizing that the median age for game consumers today is 26--Hardly a "kid"!!
Prior to this election I would have laughed an article like this off. However things are starting to look pretty spooky. Why is responsibility for policing the household become responsibility of the federal government? I understand that a parent can't entirely control the enviroment which may or may not influence a child, but such reasoning is being used as leverage to go beyond what is reasonable. You can change the radio station. You can even control the television within your house to prevent a child from watching tv programming which you deem unsuitable. As legal guardian, you can control the video games YOU buy or at least allow into the house. As a parent, there is a great deal of control within your grasp. Parental control is there if you take the time and effort into using it. We are at a point now where we are beginning to halt our own foward progression. We are starting to see science and its already rampant in media and entertainment. This is yet another example.
... steal! They say don't buy Doom 3 but they recommend Sly 2; a game that emphasizes stealing from others and then pawning the goods. And they use cartoon animals which kids can identify with as opposed to scary demons that kids wouldn't like. So in summary, kids are more likely to shoot hordes of demons than steal and thus must not play violent video games.
Here you've got a whole game centered around eating things and popping pills. Eat as much as you can before getting eaten yourself, and if you eat these magic "power pellets", you even get a chance to eat the "ghosts" that normally try to eat you!
Kids were brainwashed by Pac-Man and it started them on taking drugs and obesity. Don't you see!
At least this happened after the latest GTA installment. I can deal with real world laws against shooting my girlfriend when she'd rather go do a drive-by than going to a fancy restaurant, but not able to do that in a game? Blasphemy!
As someone from the netherlands all you say is a complete and utter lie. You can get addicted to weed, it most certainly impairs your coordination and if you are caught driving under the influence you get the same fine as when drunk.
You must have either never used yourselve OR are one of those people who claim they can drive with a couple of drinks under their belt.
It is people like you that hurt the reputation of drugs as people on boths sides of the fence know your full of it. Idiot.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Fuck Valve
Fuck Valve
Fuck Valve
No Product Activation. Ever.
Their top 10 seems based on graphism realism, where relatively non-violent games (Halo 2, HalfLife 2, GTA and especially America Army where you cannot kill anyone as when you kill someone they stay sitting down in indian) figure out. Here is one based on violent situations/atmosphere/crade look and not simply the graphism: 1.Doom III 2.Postal II 3.Soldier of Fortune I 4.Bad Mojo 5.Mortal Kombat II (not "Combat") 6.Lethal Enforcer 7.Quake I Teneabrea 8.Night Trap 9.Sanitarium 10.Planescape Torment
NOBODY wants to be responsible for their actions anymore. Quite a sickeningly large percentage of parents just want to take the quick way out of any situation that involves their child.
They do not want to understand or do any of the work to rid it from their lives, they just want a magic pill.
Same with anything else really, nobody wants to be responsible for anything they do anymore, there's always something to blame, someone else's fault, something not of their own control or doing.
Sad really.
All your base are belong to Google.
Maybe they should be more concerned about the fact that an unfiltered google image search for 'horse' returns 3 pictures of horse-related bestiality on the first page. Somehow, I think this is more of a problem than the fact that video games contain violence...just like every other media that exists. Seen any movies recently? Read any books? Watched the news? Gone to a hockey game?
These people remind me of spammers...I sometimes wonder who actually listens to them,(or buys from them, in the case of spammers) but someone must...
Video games are art. When you can answer the question,
"Does art imitate life, or life imitate art?"
you'll have the answer, as well as you can.
A strain of paranoid prevention can be worse than the disease, whate'er the intention.
Replace all reference to video games with the word "parents."
The U.S. Army now uses parents as recruiting tools because the parents capture the interest of teens, shape their attitudes and influence their behavior. Evidence grows that parents teach skills and affect behavior. The important thing to remember, therefore, is that parents are powerful-for good and for bad.
Parents are natural teachers. Children find them highly motivating; by virtue of their interactive nature, children are actively engaged with them; they provide repeated practice; and they include rewards for skillful play. These facts make it likely that parents could have large effects, some of which are intended by the parents, and some of which may not be intended.
Given the potential parents have to influence, we should pay attention to the fact that children are spending increasing amounts of time with them at younger and younger ages.
I feel a new prohibition movement coming on!
A strain of paranoid prevention can be worse than the disease, whate'er the intention.
Lieberman is a jew you DUMBASS.