A lot of people are yacking about reliability. Quite honestly these drives promise to be just as reliable as any other removable media (except solid state stuff - but that is pricey compared to a floppy)
If you treat a floppy right it will do well by you. But if you bend it, sit it next to your speaker coil (and people will) leave it in your car window on a sunny day, of course you're gonna have problems. Just like you have problems with CDs when you scratch them.
It would be one thing if this was made by some unknown company out of China, but it isn't. Matsushita is a large company that knows what they are doing. Also, don't you think they took how people would treat the floppy when they were designing the drive????
My LS120 drive is a very reliable drive (more so than that SPARQ 1 gig that I was sadly an early adopter of). One very neat thing about my LS120 drive is that I have had floppies that were impossible to read in my standard floppy drives for one reason or another, but I would plop them in my LS 120 and the data would fly off without hesitation!!
So be careful with your media (like you're supposed to) and use drives wisely (make backups of important stuff - it's cheap enough to make a couple with this drive). You've heard this stuff over and over again, but there are always those who are caught with their pants down when something goes wrong. I'd bet alot of the dissers of this new drive don't have a tape backup for their hard drive even.
So stop the pre-whining/pre-judging until at least it has been reviewed by somebody.
I see alot of posts saying to the effect "a little bit of spam doesn't cost or hurt" but it does really hurt.
When a kid can register for an hotmail address and a couple days later be receiving emails for porno that he didn't even ask for. That's just WRONG.
It's also wrong to have to "forge" email headers to deliver spam, because putting your real email address there would get you into trouble. Having to lie to do something is just plain WRONG.
The spam I get in my email box are not from anybody who wants to do me a favor (like get paid for having sex, we have free money to give you), but rather from people who want to rip me off. That's just plain WRONG.
Scraping my email off a website/newsgroup and because I like to participate in a specific discussion - and using it to try and rip me off is just plain WRONG.
There are no "good" spammers. Just people who think sending 50K emails an hour is "good". They're just plain WRONG
For the same reasons we have a post office that handles junkmail/direct marketing in a specific way with specific laws, so to we need laws to handle the "spam disease".
The lame "we can't pass any laws because the internet is "international" is bullshit. The telephone is international too, that doesn't mean you can harass me with it. Besides, all the companies above are US based. Let's start with taking out the bastard trash in our corner of the world, and worry about the rest later.
There is so much time-sucking, bandwidth-sucking, hassle-sucking spam out there, that for the same reasons people pass laws against mail and telephone fraud, so to people need to get sick of spam mail and pass laws against Unsolicited Bulk Email.
Here's a little something to help those of us who are fed up cope a little.
For a grand it better not only write code for you, but there better be a voice synthesizer that says "Yesssir Masster Ssir," as it compiles with no bugs.
The licenses we see today on software are ludicrous, dishonest, and there is no excuse for a society to put up with "contracts that aren't negotiated"
Copyright owners have always tried to take more than what was given to them under law. If you look at old 78's on the label you would think that you were reading a software license (later defeated in court - I don't have time to look up the cases).
Why is it that we have a legal system that is willing to break up monopolies, but when it comes to "copyright monopolies" it looks the other way?? Why does copyright terms need to last longer than patent terms?? (And don't give me the half ass "because the copyright owner deserves it" I don't blame people for pirating stuff left and right. With copyright terms extending to infinity (the DMCA now makes that a reality, not that the century and a half now possible with the CTEA isn't like infinity), the public domain is not getting is due.
Scholars in the know (Patterson - GA univeristy) have reached the conclusion that copyright has reached the point that it needs to be defined in the political arena not legal. Which means that we sit our politicians down before an election and ask specifically 'Where do you stand on copyright issues?" Chances are they don't know themselves, or they'll let campaign contributors decide for them.
The mere thought of book licenses should be abhorred unconditionally. With the advent of electronic books on the horizon, the scenario of Richard Stallman's right to read becomes a very real possibility.
Every generation has it battles, and I'm convinced this is ours.
I thought I was fast for catching that as I scrolled down and came to your post!.
Some days I wonder why I even bother reading Slashdot. I feel sorry for the guy who feels like he has to make a bunch of posts justifying a company. If they are on the up&up you just need one post to say that were all sux0rs and then get back to work and prove slashdot wrong.
Not that linuxgruven is doing any wrongdoing with out proof, but the thing that is alluded to here is a ponzi scheme More here and here I've had a number of relatives who have had first hand experience with these.
The people that get trapped in these are often trusting, "good" upstanding people with never any intention of doing anybody wrong. Unfortunately this veneer is all it takes for the unscrupolous to come along and take advantage and hence their wallet.
In December 2000 the Company entered into discussions with several possible buyers and expects to consummate a divestiture or otherwise discontinue the business in the first quarter of 2001. As a result, the Company intends to report VistaSource as a discontinued operation in its audited financial statements that will be included in its Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2000
It's safe to say they'll probably find a buyer (even if it's for a dime on the dollar).
The thing about Applixware is that it is a polished product. There are any number of Windows only software companies that could use this as their entry into the linux market.
My heart goes out to those people in India, and the Superbowl is "frivolous" compared to that tragedy any day.
Being on the otherside of the world makes it remote enough that people can shut it out of their minds. But it would have been nice if their had been a moment of silence before the game, and it would have been bigger if the network had cancelled one of its "I love Raymond/monday lineup" ads and had given it to the Red Cross.
The sad thing is that it seems to have bothered so few. What's more, our "moral" leader Dubya is falling behind other nations giving aid. If our nation gives a dime for federal aid, they should cut a check for this without "having to be asked."
So yeah, the tragedy is not that people watched a game, but that so little consideration about the tragedy in India was given on the national level, or even at the game.
The only thing I liked about halftime was Britney in her tight pants. The rest sucked. My mother says that was because I am getting older and that the show didn't belong to my generation. Not that any superbowl halftime has been "good", just that this one was not as well done as previous superbowl halftimes.
What's more, this is the first time in history of our country that works are not entering the public domain, due to the egregious nature of the Copyright Term Extension Act (CTEA).
Not only has no movies been entering the public domain, but what recorded music has?? Maybe 78 records that didn't have the copyright notice stamped on them?? What abnout Winnie the Pooh?? Tolkien?? Robert Frost?? T.S Eliot??
It's really hard to listen to the MPAA and RIAA scream no fair! no fair! when they don't give the public their due. Of course they want copyrights to last forever, and they lobbied heavily for the CTEA.
The cries of the MPAA and RIAA ring very false to me too.
significantly on the news that they will be offering an additional service at the the begining of March.
This new service will be called "Mir Burst". A spokesman for the company said that while meteor burst gives only milliseconds to send data packets, it's expected that the burning trail of the russian space station Mir will give them as much as an half of an hour of reliable highspeed data capability.
When asked about the temporary nature of Mir Burst, the spokesperson said that they were in negotiations with other satellite companies to move obsolete communications equipment into lower earth orbit so that they too could re-enter the atmosphere and provide fleet communications.
When you were being conceived in a fit of passion by your parents I was building WORKING radios and transmitters from scratch, and collecting parts/gears to build WORKING robots. That's a real nerd's childhood, not pansy toys that have no functionality to them.
yes, and the surface has turned itself inside out
on
Wet Venus?
·
· Score: 1
too. Meaning from the high density radar images taken a couple years ago, one geoscientists speculates that the surface is too young to be the surface that it started out with. I'll let you dig up the links.
It's quite interesting really. When CDs were first invented, napster was nowhere in anyones imagination. Not to say that it couldn't have been done through a dialup BBS, just that it never crossed anybody's mind. However, the RIAA was in the fray with demanding all sorts of copy protection on DAT and successfully killed that format (except for hi-end audio yadda yadda yadda).
The thing about movies is that unlike a song, once you see it, you're not gonna play it over and over.
So, if their is ANY way that a consumer can trade a copy with somebody else, they want to stomp it out before it is ever invented. If history is any indication, HDTV is a form of visual DAT.
I really don't see HDTV off the ground by 2006 when the FCC is suppose to shut off regular TV. I'm not gonna spend $2000 on a TV set. maybe $300, but any higher and I start reading more books.
Who knows, maybe this will usher in an era of literary renaissance.:-)
Senator Hatch was sponsor of the Copyright Term Extension Act (CTEA). The history of this twenty year extension is mentioned in this London Times article
So Senator Hatch used "international harmonization" as the reason for the CTEA.
It makes me seeth when political whoring such as this is so obvious. But it shows you just how stupid the people of Utah (my state) are for re-electing the jerk. And if anybody is believing any of the "fair-use" nonsense he has been spouting off lately about online music only needs to look at his record and stop being fooled.
While I do not think that the original 28 term will be returned to, I would settle for life plus 28 years. At least then we would see the work of or great grandfathers enter the public domain. International treaty is pre-empted by our constitution that says copyright is for "limited times," and for the author only. Let international treaty "harmonize" with our constitution for a change.
If you are in Salt Lake and want to organize against bad Copyright Law/Senator Hatch - email me kphil@hotmail.com
Cross pen company makes fantastic pens. But in case you can't write down that URL you see, now you can scan it with one of their pens.
How does this product make sense??
Do not enter abandoned mines
on
Infiltration
·
· Score: 2
Every year there is a news story about some scouts going into an abandoned mine and never coming out again. Sometimes the bodies are never found. Some of the dangers are here.
Falling down a several story vertical shaft can be a real drag.
I don't mean to be a spoil sport, but the skill in vadding/infiltration is not getting access, but not putting yourself in a situation you can't get out of.
First indications suggest that a hard disk could be taxed between 600 and 1,000 francs [$86-$144], while in Germany a hard disk is only taxed around 200 francs [$29]," said Richard Guyllorel, president of the electronic audiovisual union (SIMAVELEC).
If I had to pay that tax, it would make me pretty pissy.
Bloodmoney specifically mentions this in one of their faqs - that new games would be authored by participants using open source, and that they would in turn sell those games. Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of the whole thing, really. In this case you would be escaping any EULA because you wouldn't be using any commercial games with an EULA.
From their somewhat ambitious plans of transacting banking, web services, travel and real estate, it's clear that they want to develope a community around bloodmoney.org
Their implementation is flawed in a couple of respects:
1) Their name "bloodmoney doesn't sound all that welcoming. I live in a very religious/conservative region that takes those TV/Movie ratings seriously, and thinks that violence is something to be avoided. Also, it may be hard for some people to trust their money to someone called "bloodmoney."
2) They wan't to sell webservices. However, the average person is not going to need/want this. Also. the average programmer is not going to need/want this either as they already know who they want to do business with in this area.
3)The quantity of programmers from which they want to draw business from is going to be small. And the ones that think that this is cool are going to be too young to have a credit card.
This is just off the top of my head. They are going to have to make this more mainline or its going to wither. Even though the concept behind bloodmoney is interesting, just "interesting" isn't enough to hack it on the internet these days.
Yes, it does seem our worst fears of "big brother" are being realized by "big corporation." But this megamerger is facilitated by the "government" in the first place.
This is reminiscent of what the "government" did for us when in the Reagan adminsistration the Savings and Loans were deregulated, resulting in the taxpayers having to finance a 1/2 trillion dollar bailout.
Government wisdom comes only from the corporation that owns it.
Then he'll be back. Ebay is like crack when you want to find something. Unfortunately, there are no other solid alternatives.
You have Amazon, but supposedly everybody gave up on them when they raped the privacy policy.
Also, Ebay probably has giggles when they get mad customer emails, because they know that few mad customers are like drops in the ocean of consumers willing to roll over.
Rather than the half-ass lame "they lost me as a customer" a far more potent (but requires work) is to get legislation passed that prevents companies from spamming you, or using personal data that you don't want them too. If you can find a congressperson who isn't 0wn3d already (hard in itself).
Then once you have the legal recourse, you get hold of some attorneys and file a class-acion lawsuit for some big bucks. Again this requires more effort/money.
So its a long road to hoe. But only when companies are about to get there ass blown off financially will they pull there head out. Until then, lame "they lost me as a customer" only makes them laugh.
Reusability is a croak. People were talking about reusability in the days of Pascal, but yet I never see anybody scrambling to re-use all that old Pascal code.
Slashdot Mirror
A lot of people are yacking about reliability. Quite honestly these drives promise to be just as reliable as any other removable media (except solid state stuff - but that is pricey compared to a floppy)
If you treat a floppy right it will do well by you. But if you bend it, sit it next to your speaker coil (and people will) leave it in your car window on a sunny day, of course you're gonna have problems. Just like you have problems with CDs when you scratch them.
It would be one thing if this was made by some unknown company out of China, but it isn't. Matsushita is a large company that knows what they are doing. Also, don't you think they took how people would treat the floppy when they were designing the drive????
My LS120 drive is a very reliable drive (more so than that SPARQ 1 gig that I was sadly an early adopter of). One very neat thing about my LS120 drive is that I have had floppies that were impossible to read in my standard floppy drives for one reason or another, but I would plop them in my LS 120 and the data would fly off without hesitation!!
So be careful with your media (like you're supposed to) and use drives wisely (make backups of important stuff - it's cheap enough to make a couple with this drive). You've heard this stuff over and over again, but there are always those who are caught with their pants down when something goes wrong. I'd bet alot of the dissers of this new drive don't have a tape backup for their hard drive even.
So stop the pre-whining/pre-judging until at least it has been reviewed by somebody.
I see alot of posts saying to the effect "a little bit of spam doesn't cost or hurt" but it does really hurt.
When a kid can register for an hotmail address and a couple days later be receiving emails for porno that he didn't even ask for. That's just WRONG.
It's also wrong to have to "forge" email headers to deliver spam, because putting your real email address there would get you into trouble. Having to lie to do something is just plain WRONG.
The spam I get in my email box are not from anybody who wants to do me a favor (like get paid for having sex, we have free money to give you), but rather from people who want to rip me off. That's just plain WRONG.
Scraping my email off a website/newsgroup and because I like to participate in a specific discussion - and using it to try and rip me off is just plain WRONG.
There are no "good" spammers. Just people who think sending 50K emails an hour is "good". They're just plain WRONG
For the same reasons we have a post office that handles junkmail/direct marketing in a specific way with specific laws, so to we need laws to handle the "spam disease".
The lame "we can't pass any laws because the internet is "international" is bullshit. The telephone is international too, that doesn't mean you can harass me with it. Besides, all the companies above are US based. Let's start with taking out the bastard trash in our corner of the world, and worry about the rest later.
There is so much time-sucking, bandwidth-sucking, hassle-sucking spam out there, that for the same reasons people pass laws against mail and telephone fraud, so to people need to get sick of spam mail and pass laws against Unsolicited Bulk Email.
Here's a little something to help those of us who are fed up cope a little.
something has to be done. I've spent my day trying to fight spam overtaking a couple of mailboxs.
Maybe confiscate the computer equipment that sends forged email headers.
For a grand it better not only write code for you, but there better be a voice synthesizer that says "Yesssir Masster Ssir," as it compiles with no bugs.
The licenses we see today on software are ludicrous, dishonest, and there is no excuse for a society to put up with "contracts that aren't negotiated"
Copyright owners have always tried to take more than what was given to them under law. If you look at old 78's on the label you would think that you were reading a software license (later defeated in court - I don't have time to look up the cases).
Why is it that we have a legal system that is willing to break up monopolies, but when it comes to "copyright monopolies" it looks the other way?? Why does copyright terms need to last longer than patent terms?? (And don't give me the half ass "because the copyright owner deserves it" I don't blame people for pirating stuff left and right. With copyright terms extending to infinity (the DMCA now makes that a reality, not that the century and a half now possible with the CTEA isn't like infinity), the public domain is not getting is due.
Scholars in the know (Patterson - GA univeristy) have reached the conclusion that copyright has reached the point that it needs to be defined in the political arena not legal. Which means that we sit our politicians down before an election and ask specifically 'Where do you stand on copyright issues?" Chances are they don't know themselves, or they'll let campaign contributors decide for them.
The mere thought of book licenses should be abhorred unconditionally. With the advent of electronic books on the horizon, the scenario of Richard Stallman's right to read becomes a very real possibility.
Every generation has it battles, and I'm convinced this is ours.
I thought I was fast for catching that as I scrolled down and came to your post!.
Some days I wonder why I even bother reading Slashdot. I feel sorry for the guy who feels like he has to make a bunch of posts justifying a company. If they are on the up&up you just need one post to say that were all sux0rs and then get back to work and prove slashdot wrong.
Not that linuxgruven is doing any wrongdoing with out proof, but the thing that is alluded to here is a ponzi scheme More here and here I've had a number of relatives who have had first hand experience with these.
The people that get trapped in these are often trusting, "good" upstanding people with never any intention of doing anybody wrong. Unfortunately this veneer is all it takes for the unscrupolous to come along and take advantage and hence their wallet.
From the report;
In December 2000 the Company entered into discussions with several possible buyers and expects to consummate a divestiture or otherwise discontinue the business in the first quarter of 2001. As a result, the Company intends to report VistaSource as a discontinued operation in its audited financial statements that will be included in its Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2000
It's safe to say they'll probably find a buyer (even if it's for a dime on the dollar).
The thing about Applixware is that it is a polished product. There are any number of Windows only software companies that could use this as their entry into the linux market.
My heart goes out to those people in India, and the Superbowl is "frivolous" compared to that tragedy any day.
Being on the otherside of the world makes it remote enough that people can shut it out of their minds. But it would have been nice if their had been a moment of silence before the game, and it would have been bigger if the network had cancelled one of its "I love Raymond/monday lineup" ads and had given it to the Red Cross.
The sad thing is that it seems to have bothered so few. What's more, our "moral" leader Dubya is falling behind other nations giving aid. If our nation gives a dime for federal aid, they should cut a check for this without "having to be asked."
So yeah, the tragedy is not that people watched a game, but that so little consideration about the tragedy in India was given on the national level, or even at the game.
The only thing I liked about halftime was Britney in her tight pants. The rest sucked. My mother says that was because I am getting older and that the show didn't belong to my generation. Not that any superbowl halftime has been "good", just that this one was not as well done as previous superbowl halftimes.
So who is right??
The comedy channel thought of doing this until Viacom snuffed it out.
Actually, the copyright that now exists was hijacked by Republic pictures.
It's still an oustanding idea though.
What's more, this is the first time in history of our country that works are not entering the public domain, due to the egregious nature of the Copyright Term Extension Act (CTEA).
Not only has no movies been entering the public domain, but what recorded music has?? Maybe 78 records that didn't have the copyright notice stamped on them?? What abnout Winnie the Pooh?? Tolkien?? Robert Frost?? T.S Eliot??
It's really hard to listen to the MPAA and RIAA scream no fair! no fair! when they don't give the public their due. Of course they want copyrights to last forever, and they lobbied heavily for the CTEA.
The cries of the MPAA and RIAA ring very false to me too.
significantly on the news that they will be offering an additional service at the the begining of March.
This new service will be called "Mir Burst". A spokesman for the company said that while meteor burst gives only milliseconds to send data packets, it's expected that the burning trail of the russian space station Mir will give them as much as an half of an hour of reliable highspeed data capability.
When asked about the temporary nature of Mir Burst, the spokesperson said that they were in negotiations with other satellite companies to move obsolete communications equipment into lower earth orbit so that they too could re-enter the atmosphere and provide fleet communications.
When you were being conceived in a fit of passion by your parents I was building WORKING radios and transmitters from scratch, and collecting parts/gears to build WORKING robots. That's a real nerd's childhood, not pansy toys that have no functionality to them.
too. Meaning from the high density radar images taken a couple years ago, one geoscientists speculates that the surface is too young to be the surface that it started out with. I'll let you dig up the links.
There is a problem with my set where when the picture turns red half of it goes fuzzy beyond recognition.
I'll never go back to regular TV.
It's quite interesting really. When CDs were first invented, napster was nowhere in anyones imagination. Not to say that it couldn't have been done through a dialup BBS, just that it never crossed anybody's mind. However, the RIAA was in the fray with demanding all sorts of copy protection on DAT and successfully killed that format (except for hi-end audio yadda yadda yadda).
:-)
The thing about movies is that unlike a song, once you see it, you're not gonna play it over and over.
So, if their is ANY way that a consumer can trade a copy with somebody else, they want to stomp it out before it is ever invented. If history is any indication, HDTV is a form of visual DAT.
I really don't see HDTV off the ground by 2006 when the FCC is suppose to shut off regular TV. I'm not gonna spend $2000 on a TV set. maybe $300, but any higher and I start reading more books.
Who knows, maybe this will usher in an era of literary renaissance.
Senator Hatch was sponsor of the Copyright Term Extension Act (CTEA). The history of this twenty year extension is mentioned in this London Times article
So Senator Hatch used "international harmonization" as the reason for the CTEA.
They say that a man has two reasons for doing something. A good one, and then the real one. Hatch is also responsible for the DMCA, proposed patent extensions (Claritin), and this lovely little piece of legislation
It makes me seeth when political whoring such as this is so obvious. But it shows you just how stupid the people of Utah (my state) are for re-electing the jerk. And if anybody is believing any of the "fair-use" nonsense he has been spouting off lately about online music only needs to look at his record and stop being fooled.
While I do not think that the original 28 term will be returned to, I would settle for life plus 28 years. At least then we would see the work of or great grandfathers enter the public domain. International treaty is pre-empted by our constitution that says copyright is for "limited times," and for the author only. Let international treaty "harmonize" with our constitution for a change.
If you are in Salt Lake and want to organize against bad Copyright Law/Senator Hatch - email me kphil@hotmail.com
Cross pen company makes fantastic pens. But in case you can't write down that URL you see, now you can scan it with one of their pens.
How does this product make sense??
Every year there is a news story about some scouts going into an abandoned mine and never coming out again. Sometimes the bodies are never found. Some of the dangers are here.
Falling down a several story vertical shaft can be a real drag.
I don't mean to be a spoil sport, but the skill in vadding/infiltration is not getting access, but not putting yourself in a situation you can't get out of.
From the article;
First indications suggest that a hard disk could be taxed between 600 and 1,000 francs [$86-$144], while in Germany a hard disk is only taxed around 200 francs [$29]," said Richard Guyllorel, president of the electronic audiovisual union (SIMAVELEC).
If I had to pay that tax, it would make me pretty pissy.
Bloodmoney specifically mentions this in one of their faqs - that new games would be authored by participants using open source, and that they would in turn sell those games. Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of the whole thing, really. In this case you would be escaping any EULA because you wouldn't be using any commercial games with an EULA.
From their somewhat ambitious plans of transacting banking, web services, travel and real estate, it's clear that they want to develope a community around bloodmoney.org
Their implementation is flawed in a couple of respects:
1) Their name "bloodmoney doesn't sound all that welcoming. I live in a very religious/conservative region that takes those TV/Movie ratings seriously, and thinks that violence is something to be avoided. Also, it may be hard for some people to trust their money to someone called "bloodmoney."
2) They wan't to sell webservices. However, the average person is not going to need/want this. Also. the average programmer is not going to need/want this either as they already know who they want to do business with in this area.
3)The quantity of programmers from which they want to draw business from is going to be small. And the ones that think that this is cool are going to be too young to have a credit card.
This is just off the top of my head. They are going to have to make this more mainline or its going to wither. Even though the concept behind bloodmoney is interesting, just "interesting" isn't enough to hack it on the internet these days.
nothing QVC could do about it. If he wanted to have "N7QVC Amateur Radio Supply", that in itself is distinctive enough to be granted a trademark.
Really, there ought to be a law for instances like this where there is a clear misuse of trademark, that said trademark be revoked.
Yes, it does seem our worst fears of "big brother" are being realized by "big corporation." But this megamerger is facilitated by the "government" in the first place.
This is reminiscent of what the "government" did for us when in the Reagan adminsistration the Savings and Loans were deregulated, resulting in the taxpayers having to finance a 1/2 trillion dollar bailout.
Government wisdom comes only from the corporation that owns it.
Then he'll be back. Ebay is like crack when you want to find something. Unfortunately, there are no other solid alternatives.
You have Amazon, but supposedly everybody gave up on them when they raped the privacy policy.
Also, Ebay probably has giggles when they get mad customer emails, because they know that few mad customers are like drops in the ocean of consumers willing to roll over.
Rather than the half-ass lame "they lost me as a customer" a far more potent (but requires work) is to get legislation passed that prevents companies from spamming you, or using personal data that you don't want them too. If you can find a congressperson who isn't 0wn3d already (hard in itself).
Then once you have the legal recourse, you get hold of some attorneys and file a class-acion lawsuit for some big bucks. Again this requires more effort/money.
So its a long road to hoe. But only when companies are about to get there ass blown off financially will they pull there head out. Until then, lame "they lost me as a customer" only makes them laugh.
Reusability is a croak. People were talking about reusability in the days of Pascal, but yet I never see anybody scrambling to re-use all that old Pascal code.