What? That's without Wii Play (which is a stand-alone product) and Wii Sports (which isn't bundled in Japan)? This can't be right. The Wii is doing a hell of a lot better than I expected, almost on par with the Xbox even though the Xbox appeals to a much more "hardcore" crowd! That's incredible!
In consumer electronics, $300 is generally the barrier between "boutique" products and "I'll get one for Christmas" products.
Yes, but Christmas sales alone are not enough for a console to win.
$200 is more the line between "I'll get one for Christmas" and "I want one so I'll go buy one now".
Yes, I think so, too.
It's all on a curve, though, so I don't know where the "mass" market line really is.
Well, in a perfect world, it would be a curve, but these are people making decisions. To most people, 200 US$ seems like a whole lot more than 199 US$, which is, I think, why consoles become mass-market items at 199 US$, but don't sell that great at or above 200 US$.
Out of curiosity, why do you wish the best to Sony?
Because they did a few things right, such as making the PS3 code-free, and because they might be just as evil as Microsoft, but they're at least incompetent and thus a smaller threat.
You don't need to buy it, you can verify it yourself.
The PS3 parts are a lot rarer and more difficult to fab than the Wii parts. If the PS3 is actually numerically outselling the Wii because of supply constraints, then Nintendo has some real problems.
Yet that is precisely what is happening. It's important to keep in mind that Nintendo is currently churning out 1.8 million Wiis per month. The PS2 might have sold more at its peak, but other than that, it's probably hard to find a console that sold similar quantities. It's also important to keep in mind that the Wii contains a custom slot-loading DVD drive, which can read Wii DVD games as well as the smaller Gamecube games; it contains an infrared camera, and two different motion sensors from different suppliers. It's not just the same old Gamecube.
My theory had been that the PS3 would really take off as it got below $300
Historically, 200 US$ is the mass-market barrier. First console below 200 US$ wins:-)
I'm a bit unclear here. Explain this to me: What do I get on the 360 that I do not get on the PS3? My PS3 has a global friend list, messaging, matchmaking, it even has hosted servers. What would I get for my 360 if I payed for Live that I do not already get for free on the PS3?
I don't feel entitled to things. It's Microsoft who apparently feels entitled to my money, even though they are not willing to provide anything in return.
Come on. The matchmaking service? Friend lists? Instart messaging? The right to buy additional content? That's what you can come up with?
I own all three current-gen systems, but I don't pay for live, so I usually buy the PS3 version of online titles. Unfortunately, in some cases, the PS3 version never comes out, is way late, or sucks (see: Orange Box). So I complain.
Basically, Microsoft expects me to pay for something I should get for free. If Sony can host Warhawk games without me paying for it, why does Microsoft expect me to pay for not hosting online games? Paying for Live sucks, so I'm not going to do it, but not paying hurts my Xbox 360 experience, so I complain.
Apple uses a lot of Open Source projects (which is a good thing even without giving back), but they also write code for a lot of OS projects, and even host a few of their own.
I really meant to imply that besides Java developers nobody uses client side Java applications. I probably should have been clearer and just said that Java sucks.
There are actually quite a few Java apps that are important to many Mac users. Obviously, if you're running Mac OS X Server, you might want to run stuff like Apache Tomcat. User-level Java Mac apps include stuff like XML mind, which is widely used to write docbook documents. It's also kind of interesting that some Java apps running on Macs try to hide the fact that they're Java apps, because many Mac users have an irrational hatred of Java (probabbly due to the incredibly bad performance and looks of early Swing apps).
You probably simply don't notice it. I got my PSP about a year ago, and it definitely has the ghosting issue. It's not equally obvious in all games, and it's more obvious in ripped movies than in UMD movies (I think they have a slower framerate).
Owning both a PSP and a DS, I hardly ever used the PSP for gaming (even though I own about 20 games). None of the games are very good for portable use, and when at home, I prefer "real" consoles. I used to use the PSP for watching movies, despite the screen; since I've got an iPhone, I use that. Smaller screen, tremendously better quality.
I don't use the PSP for anything anymore. DS for portable gaming, iPhone for portable movies.
I bought mine about a year ago, and it still had the crappy screen. At first, I thought all games on the PSP had motion blur, until I figured out that it was just the sucky screen.
Have you even played Mario 64? The game is entirely open. You enter a level, and you're free to go wherever you want. The whole level is open to you. There's no comparison to something like R&C, where you follow a narrow path. None at all. Yes indeed i have. The levels are 1 way to a first goal and multiple ways to extra goals.
That is actually not true. You can get to the first star however you want, too. There's no path in any of the levels (apart from very few, like the sledding levels). For some obstacles, there's only one way to negotiate them, but most of the time, you can find your own path to the star.
I'm not sure if you're lying or if you're not remembering this correctly. Here's a link to an article about the study. To quote:
"Heavy gamers make up only 3% of the gaming population"
Obviously each "heavy gamer" buys way more games than the other market segments, but even taking this into account, heavy gamers are a small part of the market in terms of total money spent. here is the press release for the actual report. That ~2% out spends other market segments. 7:1 to "avid gamers". they did not list a stat in the free release about "casual" gamers. It's safe to assume it is less then avid gamers.
That evaluates to 14% of the actual money spent. As I've said, heavy gamers are a small part of the market in terms of total money spent. Comparing the "Mass Market Gamers" (which I guess is NPD's term for casual gamers) to the heavies gives the following picture: 2%x13 games = 26 for the heavies (I'm not going to normalize this); 15%x2 games = 30 for the casuals. So the casuals buy more games than the heavies according to this study; and that doesn't even include "casual kids."
Too bad for your sister, but the Wii's attach rate suggests that most casual gamers will buy quite a bunch of games. Really?
Yeah, really. Did you even read that link? The attach rate for the Wii and PS3 are about equal, and both are about half the 360's attach rate; which makes sense, because the 360 was on the market twice as long, and thus gamers had twice as much time to buy games. As I've said, the Wii's attach rate suggests that most casual gamers will buy quite a bunch of games.
The lacking playtime was mentioned in pretty much all reviews. And I did play it; i just didn't finish it. I don't own it (I'm not going to pay full price for a six-hours-game), a friend of mine does. So your speculating and spreading mis information.
What part of "The lacking playtime was mentioned in pretty much all reviews." did you not understand? Maybe it took you 7 hours to finish the game. Maybe it took you 10 hours. It doesn't really matter; it's still too short a game.
The game is short. But no shorter then it's peers. Many games have been getting shorter. Ala Halo 3.
Again, people buy Halo 3 for the online component. If your girlfriend's brother bought the game for the single-player mode, whether the game is long enough or not is his judgment to make. It would be too short for me. The fact that Halo 3 has a short single-player mode in no way helps your argument that HS was long enough.
Yeah, that's what I thought. But in my opinion, "more than one way around" does not a non-linear game make. That is a silly complaint. You want a different game genre.
One, it's not silly. Two, you're right. That's what I said all along: I wanted an innovative platformer. Instead, I got a boring old shooter with PS2 gameplay mechanics.
Platformers aren't necessarily sand box games.
And R&C isn't a platformer to begin with. It's a shooter.
If you played it for a few stages in you'd hit section where it almost is a sandbox games. the levels are huge. Not many platformers are as open as you implied you want. In fact off the top of my head I can't think of one. Crash bandicoot? no. Mario 64? no. Mario Galaxy? no. Sonic? no. Ico? maybe. I think you really want GTA or crackdown.
Have you even played Mario 64? The game is entirely open. You enter a level, and you're free to go wherever you want. The whole level is open to you. There's no comparison to something like R&C, where you follow a narrow path. None at all.
I don't quite understand the distinction between "people who play Wii sports" and "gamers." Aren't people who play Wii Sports - and even buy a console for the privilege - gamers by definition? I'm not entirely sure what your point is: Are you saying that people who previously owned other consoles can't appreciate Wii Sports? There is a quantitative difference between gaming hobbyists. Gamers. and Casual gamers. NDP did a study, found "Gamers" still represent more money even though there are mroe casual gamers.
"Heavy gamers make up only 3% of the gaming population"
Obviously each "heavy gamer" buys way more games than the other market segments, but even taking this into account, heavy gamers are a small part of the market in terms of total money spent.
It really comes down to how much time people play and how much money they spend. For instance my sister will play wii sports but nothing else. Not mario party not nintendogs, nothing. she is a casual gamer. Her purchases won't exceed wii sports and perhaps a sequel or a clone.
Too bad for your sister, but the Wii's attach rate suggests that most casual gamers will buy quite a bunch of games.
You really didn't play HS did you? Every who bounds about the 6h figure is actually quoting from 1 source.
The lacking playtime was mentioned in pretty much all reviews. And I did play it; i just didn't finish it. I don't own it (I'm not going to pay full price for a six-hours-game), a friend of mine does.
The game is longer then that, a bit shorter then halo 3 but much longer then 6h.
I also didn't buy Halo 3 (in my opinion, it's a pretty crappy FPS compared to stuff like CoD4), but in its defense, people mainly buy that for the online component, which does provide dozens of hours of entertainment, and which HS does not have.
R&T is extremely open.
I'm guessing you mean "extremely open" as in "more than one path," not as in "I see that sky scraper over there, so I can go there." I want the second.
Linear shooter does not describe it. Each level is about 1/2 hidden secrets and every other level has 2 or more ways around or has goals that you can per sue as you please.
Yeah, that's what I thought. But in my opinion, "more than one way around" does not a non-linear game make.
Did you actually play it or did you just read a review?
Played it, but don't own it.
As for the "gameplay before graphics" games: Wii Sports. I think that game alone shows that games (and even consoles) can sell on gameplay alone. Wii sports does sell wii's. To non gamers. The idea that major franchises will move there is the reason gamers go there.
I don't quite understand the distinction between "people who play Wii sports" and "gamers." Aren't people who play Wii Sports - and even buy a console for the privilege - gamers by definition? I'm not entirely sure what your point is: Are you saying that people who previously owned other consoles can't appreciate Wii Sports?
I guess you don't play any online games like WoW then; another issue with PC games I have is the DRM, for example limiting the number of installs in games like BioShock.
Slashdot Mirror
I own a PS3. I use it for playing games. It cost 600 bucks.
It doesn't matter that the PS3 also does all this other crap, it's still 600 bucks for a console used for playing games.
2. 1,944,527 - Wii
3: 943,709 - PS3
What? That's without Wii Play (which is a stand-alone product) and Wii Sports (which isn't bundled in Japan)? This can't be right. The Wii is doing a hell of a lot better than I expected, almost on par with the Xbox even though the Xbox appeals to a much more "hardcore" crowd! That's incredible!
Reading the interview is like listening to a character out of Idiocracy.
Yes, but Christmas sales alone are not enough for a console to win.
$200 is more the line between "I'll get one for Christmas" and "I want one so I'll go buy one now".Yes, I think so, too.
It's all on a curve, though, so I don't know where the "mass" market line really is.Well, in a perfect world, it would be a curve, but these are people making decisions. To most people, 200 US$ seems like a whole lot more than 199 US$, which is, I think, why consoles become mass-market items at 199 US$, but don't sell that great at or above 200 US$.
Because they did a few things right, such as making the PS3 code-free, and because they might be just as evil as Microsoft, but they're at least incompetent and thus a smaller threat.
Dunno, we also use it to watch youtube movies on the web, check out the weather, and sometimes read news.
You don't need to buy it, you can verify it yourself.
The PS3 parts are a lot rarer and more difficult to fab than the Wii parts. If the PS3 is actually numerically outselling the Wii because of supply constraints, then Nintendo has some real problems.Yet that is precisely what is happening. It's important to keep in mind that Nintendo is currently churning out 1.8 million Wiis per month. The PS2 might have sold more at its peak, but other than that, it's probably hard to find a console that sold similar quantities. It's also important to keep in mind that the Wii contains a custom slot-loading DVD drive, which can read Wii DVD games as well as the smaller Gamecube games; it contains an infrared camera, and two different motion sensors from different suppliers. It's not just the same old Gamecube.
My theory had been that the PS3 would really take off as it got below $300Historically, 200 US$ is the mass-market barrier. First console below 200 US$ wins :-)
I'm a bit unclear here. Explain this to me: What do I get on the 360 that I do not get on the PS3? My PS3 has a global friend list, messaging, matchmaking, it even has hosted servers. What would I get for my 360 if I payed for Live that I do not already get for free on the PS3?
I don't feel entitled to things. It's Microsoft who apparently feels entitled to my money, even though they are not willing to provide anything in return.
Come on. The matchmaking service? Friend lists? Instart messaging? The right to buy additional content? That's what you can come up with?
True.
I own all three current-gen systems, but I don't pay for live, so I usually buy the PS3 version of online titles. Unfortunately, in some cases, the PS3 version never comes out, is way late, or sucks (see: Orange Box). So I complain.
Basically, Microsoft expects me to pay for something I should get for free. If Sony can host Warhawk games without me paying for it, why does Microsoft expect me to pay for not hosting online games? Paying for Live sucks, so I'm not going to do it, but not paying hurts my Xbox 360 experience, so I complain.
...which gets filled by reading from the UMD, a.k.a. more loading.
That's a dangerous precedent to set. If you're going to elliminate personal trait, why not make everyone obedient? Wow, perfection achieved!
Both.
Apple uses a lot of Open Source projects (which is a good thing even without giving back), but they also write code for a lot of OS projects, and even host a few of their own.
I don't think GP was joking. I think he was just dumb.
There are actually quite a few Java apps that are important to many Mac users. Obviously, if you're running Mac OS X Server, you might want to run stuff like Apache Tomcat. User-level Java Mac apps include stuff like XML mind, which is widely used to write docbook documents. It's also kind of interesting that some Java apps running on Macs try to hide the fact that they're Java apps, because many Mac users have an irrational hatred of Java (probabbly due to the incredibly bad performance and looks of early Swing apps).
MacUpdate lists Java-based teaching apps, CAD Software, Microscope Image viewers, Magic card databases, iTunes helpers and a ton of games.
I'd say a huge number of Mac users have at least one or two Java apps on their Mac, probably without even realizing the apps are written in Java.
How does the increased RAM cut down on disk loading? I would guess that it would lead to *more* loading as games make use of the additional RAM.
You probably simply don't notice it. I got my PSP about a year ago, and it definitely has the ghosting issue. It's not equally obvious in all games, and it's more obvious in ripped movies than in UMD movies (I think they have a slower framerate).
What, you mean Harry Potter magically introduced ghosting when I ripped his DVD and watched it on my PSP? :-)
Owning both a PSP and a DS, I hardly ever used the PSP for gaming (even though I own about 20 games). None of the games are very good for portable use, and when at home, I prefer "real" consoles. I used to use the PSP for watching movies, despite the screen; since I've got an iPhone, I use that. Smaller screen, tremendously better quality.
I don't use the PSP for anything anymore. DS for portable gaming, iPhone for portable movies.
I bought mine about a year ago, and it still had the crappy screen. At first, I thought all games on the PSP had motion blur, until I figured out that it was just the sucky screen.
That is actually not true. You can get to the first star however you want, too. There's no path in any of the levels (apart from very few, like the sledding levels). For some obstacles, there's only one way to negotiate them, but most of the time, you can find your own path to the star.
I'm not sure if you're lying or if you're not remembering this correctly. Here's a link to an article about the study. To quote: "Heavy gamers make up only 3% of the gaming population" Obviously each "heavy gamer" buys way more games than the other market segments, but even taking this into account, heavy gamers are a small part of the market in terms of total money spent. here is the press release for the actual report. That ~2% out spends other market segments. 7:1 to "avid gamers". they did not list a stat in the free release about "casual" gamers. It's safe to assume it is less then avid gamers.That evaluates to 14% of the actual money spent. As I've said, heavy gamers are a small part of the market in terms of total money spent. Comparing the "Mass Market Gamers" (which I guess is NPD's term for casual gamers) to the heavies gives the following picture: 2%x13 games = 26 for the heavies (I'm not going to normalize this); 15%x2 games = 30 for the casuals. So the casuals buy more games than the heavies according to this study; and that doesn't even include "casual kids."
Too bad for your sister, but the Wii's attach rate suggests that most casual gamers will buy quite a bunch of games. Really?Yeah, really. Did you even read that link? The attach rate for the Wii and PS3 are about equal, and both are about half the 360's attach rate; which makes sense, because the 360 was on the market twice as long, and thus gamers had twice as much time to buy games. As I've said, the Wii's attach rate suggests that most casual gamers will buy quite a bunch of games.
What part of "The lacking playtime was mentioned in pretty much all reviews." did you not understand? Maybe it took you 7 hours to finish the game. Maybe it took you 10 hours. It doesn't really matter; it's still too short a game.
The game is short. But no shorter then it's peers. Many games have been getting shorter. Ala Halo 3.Again, people buy Halo 3 for the online component. If your girlfriend's brother bought the game for the single-player mode, whether the game is long enough or not is his judgment to make. It would be too short for me. The fact that Halo 3 has a short single-player mode in no way helps your argument that HS was long enough.
Yeah, that's what I thought. But in my opinion, "more than one way around" does not a non-linear game make. That is a silly complaint. You want a different game genre.One, it's not silly. Two, you're right. That's what I said all along: I wanted an innovative platformer. Instead, I got a boring old shooter with PS2 gameplay mechanics.
Platformers aren't necessarily sand box games.And R&C isn't a platformer to begin with. It's a shooter.
If you played it for a few stages in you'd hit section where it almost is a sandbox games. the levels are huge. Not many platformers are as open as you implied you want. In fact off the top of my head I can't think of one. Crash bandicoot? no. Mario 64? no. Mario Galaxy? no. Sonic? no. Ico? maybe. I think you really want GTA or crackdown.Have you even played Mario 64? The game is entirely open. You enter a level, and you're free to go wherever you want. The whole level is open to you. There's no comparison to something like R&C, where you follow a narrow path. None at all.
I don't quite understand the distinction between "people who play Wii sports" and "gamers." Aren't people who play Wii Sports - and even buy a console for the privilege - gamers by definition? I'm not entirely sure what your point is: Are you saying that people who previously owned other consoles can't appreciate Wii Sports? There is a quantitative difference between gaming hobbyists. Gamers. and Casual gamers. NDP did a study, found "Gamers" still represent more money even though there are mroe casual gamers.I'm not sure if you're lying or if you're not remembering this correctly. Here's a link to an article about the study. To quote:
"Heavy gamers make up only 3% of the gaming population"
Obviously each "heavy gamer" buys way more games than the other market segments, but even taking this into account, heavy gamers are a small part of the market in terms of total money spent.
It really comes down to how much time people play and how much money they spend. For instance my sister will play wii sports but nothing else. Not mario party not nintendogs, nothing. she is a casual gamer. Her purchases won't exceed wii sports and perhaps a sequel or a clone.Too bad for your sister, but the Wii's attach rate suggests that most casual gamers will buy quite a bunch of games.
The lacking playtime was mentioned in pretty much all reviews. And I did play it; i just didn't finish it. I don't own it (I'm not going to pay full price for a six-hours-game), a friend of mine does.
The game is longer then that, a bit shorter then halo 3 but much longer then 6h.I also didn't buy Halo 3 (in my opinion, it's a pretty crappy FPS compared to stuff like CoD4), but in its defense, people mainly buy that for the online component, which does provide dozens of hours of entertainment, and which HS does not have.
R&T is extremely open.I'm guessing you mean "extremely open" as in "more than one path," not as in "I see that sky scraper over there, so I can go there." I want the second.
Linear shooter does not describe it. Each level is about 1/2 hidden secrets and every other level has 2 or more ways around or has goals that you can per sue as you please.Yeah, that's what I thought. But in my opinion, "more than one way around" does not a non-linear game make.
Did you actually play it or did you just read a review?Played it, but don't own it.
As for the "gameplay before graphics" games: Wii Sports. I think that game alone shows that games (and even consoles) can sell on gameplay alone. Wii sports does sell wii's. To non gamers. The idea that major franchises will move there is the reason gamers go there.I don't quite understand the distinction between "people who play Wii sports" and "gamers." Aren't people who play Wii Sports - and even buy a console for the privilege - gamers by definition? I'm not entirely sure what your point is: Are you saying that people who previously owned other consoles can't appreciate Wii Sports?
Good for you. I hope it's still not a problem when you want to revisit BioShock in 5 or 10 years.
I guess you don't play any online games like WoW then; another issue with PC games I have is the DRM, for example limiting the number of installs in games like BioShock.