OK... on a random tangent from this subject, if someone hasn't done so already, I think we need a corollary to Godwin's Law. Any time someone adds "protection from our tyrannical government" to the discussion,/. needs a way to flag said poster's account as "Irrelevant" from now until the end of time. a) if there was going to be a gun-grab, more than likely it would have happened when both houses of Congress and the White House controlled by the Democrats. Which didn't happen. b) If the government did decide to turn on its citizens, how is your AR-15 going to help when the Navy can just send up a few Tomahawk's from off the cost and obliterate your arsenal?
... Perhaps the words on the box, the different software, the different colour, the different interface should have tipped me off, but heck, they were both RECTANGULAR with a BUTTON.
Not to be pedantic (although, who am I kidding, this is/.) but the devil's machine, I mean tablet in question, actually doesn't have a button on the face of it. And I know this because I am typing this up on a Galaxy Tab 10.1. I But otherwise, yes, FU Apple.
well, this is slashdot so i guess it's gotta be car analogy time...
you bought a brand new Chevrolet off the lot; sales guy says "just make your way out the lot and talk to Dave, he'll have your new car waiting for you". you go out to the lot to find Dave standing there without your new car. he says "oooh, sorry, there was just a recall on that model. we'll get it to you just as soon as we've fixed the problem". so you start asking things like "when will that be?", "can i just get another car instead?" and "can i have my money back since i'm not getting a new car now?" but Dave just ignores you, goes back inside, and locks the door behind him.
Yes, except in your car analogy, Dave has yet to go back inside and lock the door behind them. The extent of what happened is two games were found to be exploitable, they were pulled from PSN (presumably so that more copies of the vulnerable code don't get out in the wild), and will probably end up back on PSN after they are patched. If they don't put the games back up, and don't offer you a refund if you bought it and haven't downloaded it, then by all means, bust out the torches and pitchforks.
and now in non-car-analogy terms, i guess i just think it's really really shitty that sony can take things away from people that those people have already paid for. their views on piracy would lead consumers to believe that sony just wants to be paid fairly for their product (seems reasonable), but now they don't even feel the need to provide anything for the money? they need to either provide the product that was paid for, or a refund. there is literally no other industry on this planet that can get away with the shit that media companies can, and they need to be reined in.
That would be a feasible analogy, if they actually took something away from you. Buuuuuuut.... they haven't. If you already bought the game and downloaded it to a PC/PS3, what they did does not affect you *one damn bit.* If you bought it and a) never downloaded it or b) removed it from your system but want to re-install now, how specifically is that their fault? Any of the digital copies of my PSP titles are *all* backed up (multiple times at that, so I can be, you know, paranoid), in case something happens like the PSN fiasco last year, or my PS3 bites it.
More than likely, a lot of the projects that Google is working on are not things that will pay off immediately, but in the end, will pay off. They are at least trying to establish the path that other companies *should* take once the technology becomes cheaper/more viable, instead of just sitting on their cash saying "know what we should do with our money? Put more money on top of it." like most companies would.
There is no justification for the government to disallow Drug use (or even suicide) unless the government claims ownership over you.
Speaking of which... what is the mandatory sentence for committing suicide now-a-days? I would think death would be a bit harsh of a sentence (as well as redundant).
No, it wouldn't have cost them $170M to leave OtherOS alone. Hackers at large are still pretty pissed at Sony for taking OtherOS out, but this seems (at least from the reports that came out) that the main crack was more indicative of the organized crime/ID thieves. Granted the two attacks were rather coincidently related, but I think they have about as much correlation as the whole "Video games lead to violence" argument that comes up/. every month or two. Sony trying to pin this on Anon was rather BS as well (I'd put money on it being a third party using Anon as a scapegoat, but that's my opinion), since they wouldn't really have a need for all of the CC's pulled from the crack. I rather doubt Anon would view computer fraud/ID theft as "lulz". Hopefully, now that they have the security re-done on the console side, they can figure out how to allow OtherOS back on there without opening up other gaping holes in the system, but I'm not holding my breath.
Unfortunately, it seems to happen fairly quickly after allowing Rupert M. to get his hands on an news outlet. I just wonder what other kind of random tabloid stories we can expect from WSJ soon...
Basically, the protected game saves (i.e. Megaman 9/10) can't be copied manually to a thumb drive, but they will get backed up when you do a full system backup to an external drive. I'm betting what powerlord said is correct as well, since the saves are tied to your PSN account. If you're a PSN+ member, it should set some kind of flag in the save file to let it go to the cloud backup. This coming from a non-PSN+ member, that is....
Bullshit.... I've earned a few trophies for Undead Nightmare, which I finally decided to start playing through, and didn't start into it until after PSN went down. The info for the trophies (e.g. when you obtained it) is stored locally and then synced up to PSN when it's available.
Nah, geohot himself is a good reason to bash geohot.... This was just an out-and-out f' up by the security teams in the SCEA/SNEA division. If they have any common sense left about them (and it's looking less likely everyday) they'll sack the folks dealing with security from this generation and do it right next time.
I'm sure Sony will be disappointed to hear that a 15 year old who can't spell, punctuate correctly or string a coherent sentence together doesn't want to work for them.
15? My 6-y/o can probably make a more coherent sentence than that drivel (and spell it better, as well). I don't think the GP would be able to make it through the initial screening at any decent tech company.
That would be all well and good, had FW 3.60 not closed (well, more like side-stepped) the issue of the key released by GH. Anyone staying on a CFW based on 3.56 and below will be fine, for now, until the newer games start requiring 3.6, including it's authentication methods.
I, in no way, think that Sony should be cheered for the way that they have behaved of the last few years. However, to lionize GeoHot the way that the/. community (in general) has, is complete and utter bullshit. If it were not for his messing with the Hypervisor for no other reason because he could (save me all the "He wanted to help the custom firmware scene" crap.... he did it because he wanted the notoriety, and that's what he lives for), and Sony (as an over-reaction) stripped the ability to load OtherOS. I'll repeat that for the stubborn: George Hotz is the reason there is no more OtherOS on fat PS3's. You want to bitch about Sony removing it, bitch at him about it. Yes, it was a dick move by Sony, but it was perceived as a major security threat. Had Sony done nothing about it, they would have opened themselves up to many, *many* lawsuits by investors, which would make the class-action suits against them look like child's play. And parenthetically, you really have the stones to think that this somehow would compare to the American Revolution? For that amount of self-importance, are you're sure you're really not GeoHot trying more self promotion?
And after all, the point of them being a corporation is to make money. Sony did not find it in the generosity of their kind hearts to make a PS3 for the gaming for make money. The previous two versions damn near printed money for them, as well as the third one, to a lesser degree. With all of the other snafu's going on at the since the start of this generation (rootkit from their music division, piracy on the PSP, pricing themselves out of the contention at the start), they were not about to let someone break open the security on their system and let their licensing model to go hell. Whether or not you agree with it is a different argument all-together, but that's the way business are. As a rights-owner, they should have some method of keeping their security somewhat under wraps. Many parts of the DMCA are gross over-reaches, but the premise of them having some say to keep their security policies to themselves is a valid one If they lose less by going after a few people trying to compromise their security, instead of opening up themselves to shareholder lawsuits, there's going to be a hell of a less bad PR do deal with that having all of the Sony shareholders look at the company and say "WTF is wrong with you?"
Now most rational (and sane) people would probably realize this as a "shot over the bow" and think to themselves "Eh, They did throw quite the hissy-fit, so it may be a good idea to lay low," but of course, not St. George. The minute fail0verflow finds the key, which they kept fairly low-key, he takes it and broadcasts it out to the internet. For someone who already had Sony pissed for something else, that was a monumentally retarded thing to do. On top of that, he has the gall to say something to the effect of "Hey, big three game makers, if you don't want your security cracked, you better hire me." And if you take a look at *any* of the EULA's of the big 3 consoles right now, they all say *hack our shit, and you will be taken to court." The only difference this time is that Sony finally said "Enough is enough" and finally made an example of St. George.
Hopefully, Sony will have enough common sense to put back OtherOS into a future firmware, now that they shifted the signing around and re-secured the system, but I'm not holding my breath on it.
No, actually you're a shill for showing a bit of common sense, which doesn't work very well for the discussion. Bringing up actual facts, such as Sony just kicks people off PSN if they detect CFW, or that the actual lawsuit is about a DMCA violation tends to anger the 4chan converts here on/. You'd be better off convincing a birther that Obama is from Hawaii than convincing people that GeoHot is in court due to his own actions.
So, by your logic, if you decompiled something, such as one of the Office executables and during the decompile, you discovered a flaw that would let you bypass the 25-character key and Windows Genuine Advantage before setup and the activation after setup. Now that you have the key, you could either: a) send something to MS, saying "Hey, I found a security flaw with x you might want to fix" or b) post something on YouTube to the equivalent of "HEY EVERYONE!!!! I CAN GET AROUND WGA AND WINDOWS ACTIVATION!!!!1!one!! Now I'm not saying that you should pirate Office, but here's the flaw and how to exploit it."
Obviously, you would be in no legal trouble doing B, right? You did purchase your copy of Office, so it should be yours to do whatever you want to with it. I mean, you did pay for your copy of Office just like you paid for your copy of all of the firmware included on the PS3 (as well as accept their TOS when it comes to the OS on the first boot of the system), so there should be no legal implications, correct?
How about for arguments sake, you go ahead and try B, and let all of us here know how it works out for you, ok?
*sigh*....*facepalm*....And I thought my reading/legal comprehension was off today.....
No, I cannot claim to own "12345" as my own number if it were the combination to my luggage. But, if you get a hold of the combination to that, I can go after you for releasing that combination to everyone. That is EXACTLY what Geohot is in trouble for.
This is not about copyrighting a key.... it is about distributing a security key that a) he should not have had and b) is used to secure something that is copyrighted (e.g. Firmware/software published by Sony).
You would have to be one hell of a contortionist to make the stretch that this is some sort of First Amendment issue. Whether or not the DMCA is a good law is still an entirely separate argument, but this is nowhere near a free speech issue.
What he did was release the key, which still happens to be Sony's private key (read: theirs), in order to bypass the security of this system. Fail0verflow, who actually found the key, did the (relatively) right thing and realized the screw-up and sat on it, which is why they're not in that much of legal trouble, Things would have been fine if that twit St. George wouldn't have done the internet equivalent of breaking out the bullhorn and yelling "Hey, I got my hands on the security key to the PS3, but don't use it for piracy *wink wink*"... and THAT is why this case is where it is.
Yes, Sony has been a pretty big dick about things the last 5+ years(CD rootkit, general quality of their hardware, etc...), but speaking as a software dev, they do have the right to try to protect the works for their game studios/3rd parties who develop for their system. If they were let piracy run rampant on the machine, which face it, that's what most "homebrew" would have been for, PS3 gamers would only have to look forward to our yearly allotment of Madden/COD games.
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OK... on a random tangent from this subject, if someone hasn't done so already, I think we need a corollary to Godwin's Law. Any time someone adds "protection from our tyrannical government" to the discussion, /. needs a way to flag said poster's account as "Irrelevant" from now until the end of time. a) if there was going to be a gun-grab, more than likely it would have happened when both houses of Congress and the White House controlled by the Democrats. Which didn't happen. b) If the government did decide to turn on its citizens, how is your AR-15 going to help when the Navy can just send up a few Tomahawk's from off the cost and obliterate your arsenal?
... Perhaps the words on the box, the different software, the different colour, the different interface should have tipped me off, but heck, they were both RECTANGULAR with a BUTTON.
Not to be pedantic (although, who am I kidding, this is /.) but the devil's machine, I mean tablet in question, actually doesn't have a button on the face of it. And I know this because I am typing this up on a Galaxy Tab 10.1. I But otherwise, yes, FU Apple.
Because it has a shiny fruit on the back of it.... duh.
well, this is slashdot so i guess it's gotta be car analogy time...
you bought a brand new Chevrolet off the lot; sales guy says "just make your way out the lot and talk to Dave, he'll have your new car waiting for you". you go out to the lot to find Dave standing there without your new car. he says "oooh, sorry, there was just a recall on that model. we'll get it to you just as soon as we've fixed the problem". so you start asking things like "when will that be?", "can i just get another car instead?" and "can i have my money back since i'm not getting a new car now?" but Dave just ignores you, goes back inside, and locks the door behind him.
Yes, except in your car analogy, Dave has yet to go back inside and lock the door behind them. The extent of what happened is two games were found to be exploitable, they were pulled from PSN (presumably so that more copies of the vulnerable code don't get out in the wild), and will probably end up back on PSN after they are patched. If they don't put the games back up, and don't offer you a refund if you bought it and haven't downloaded it, then by all means, bust out the torches and pitchforks.
and now in non-car-analogy terms, i guess i just think it's really really shitty that sony can take things away from people that those people have already paid for. their views on piracy would lead consumers to believe that sony just wants to be paid fairly for their product (seems reasonable), but now they don't even feel the need to provide anything for the money? they need to either provide the product that was paid for, or a refund. there is literally no other industry on this planet that can get away with the shit that media companies can, and they need to be reined in.
That would be a feasible analogy, if they actually took something away from you. Buuuuuuut.... they haven't. If you already bought the game and downloaded it to a PC/PS3, what they did does not affect you *one damn bit.* If you bought it and a) never downloaded it or b) removed it from your system but want to re-install now, how specifically is that their fault? Any of the digital copies of my PSP titles are *all* backed up (multiple times at that, so I can be, you know, paranoid), in case something happens like the PSN fiasco last year, or my PS3 bites it.
^
This.
More than likely, a lot of the projects that Google is working on are not things that will pay off immediately, but in the end, will pay off. They are at least trying to establish the path that other companies *should* take once the technology becomes cheaper/more viable, instead of just sitting on their cash saying "know what we should do with our money? Put more money on top of it." like most companies would.
Obviously, Ben Franklin didn't invent DST. Bobby Boucher's mother did... Ben Franklin is THE DEVIL!
It's in Austria? Well, "G'day Mate!"
Not Tourette syndrome, sir.... it's called prepubescence. They both present themselves very similarly, but they are indeed, different.
But will it run Lin.... ah, nevermind.
Not their fault. Over centuries liberals intentionally decreased the readability of English texts by introducing foreign words.
Yes... I still can't believe they keep adding foreign words. Shit like "My Pet Goat" still trips me up every time.
There is no justification for the government to disallow Drug use (or even suicide) unless the government claims ownership over you.
Speaking of which... what is the mandatory sentence for committing suicide now-a-days? I would think death would be a bit harsh of a sentence (as well as redundant).
No, it wouldn't have cost them $170M to leave OtherOS alone. Hackers at large are still pretty pissed at Sony for taking OtherOS out, but this seems (at least from the reports that came out) that the main crack was more indicative of the organized crime/ID thieves. Granted the two attacks were rather coincidently related, but I think they have about as much correlation as the whole "Video games lead to violence" argument that comes up /. every month or two.
Sony trying to pin this on Anon was rather BS as well (I'd put money on it being a third party using Anon as a scapegoat, but that's my opinion), since they wouldn't really have a need for all of the CC's pulled from the crack. I rather doubt Anon would view computer fraud/ID theft as "lulz".
Hopefully, now that they have the security re-done on the console side, they can figure out how to allow OtherOS back on there without opening up other gaping holes in the system, but I'm not holding my breath.
Unfortunately, it seems to happen fairly quickly after allowing Rupert M. to get his hands on an news outlet. I just wonder what other kind of random tabloid stories we can expect from WSJ soon...
If by adding subscribers, you mean PSN+ subscribers, then yes, they can recoup some money that way.
If you mean regular, old PSN subscribers, then, well.... *facepalm*
Basically, the protected game saves (i.e. Megaman 9/10) can't be copied manually to a thumb drive, but they will get backed up when you do a full system backup to an external drive. I'm betting what powerlord said is correct as well, since the saves are tied to your PSN account. If you're a PSN+ member, it should set some kind of flag in the save file to let it go to the cloud backup. This coming from a non-PSN+ member, that is....
Bullshit.... I've earned a few trophies for Undead Nightmare, which I finally decided to start playing through, and didn't start into it until after PSN went down. The info for the trophies (e.g. when you obtained it) is stored locally and then synced up to PSN when it's available.
Unless you're talking about Lou Holtz.... wait, this is still /. though. nevermind.....
Nah, geohot himself is a good reason to bash geohot.... This was just an out-and-out f' up by the security teams in the SCEA/SNEA division. If they have any common sense left about them (and it's looking less likely everyday) they'll sack the folks dealing with security from this generation and do it right next time.
I'm sure Sony will be disappointed to hear that a 15 year old who can't spell, punctuate correctly or string a coherent sentence together doesn't want to work for them.
15? My 6-y/o can probably make a more coherent sentence than that drivel (and spell it better, as well). I don't think the GP would be able to make it through the initial screening at any decent tech company.
That would be all well and good, had FW 3.60 not closed (well, more like side-stepped) the issue of the key released by GH. Anyone staying on a CFW based on 3.56 and below will be fine, for now, until the newer games start requiring 3.6, including it's authentication methods.
I, in no way, think that Sony should be cheered for the way that they have behaved of the last few years. /. community (in general) has, is complete and utter bullshit. If it were not for his messing with the Hypervisor for no other reason because he could (save me all the "He wanted to help the custom firmware scene" crap.... he did it because he wanted the notoriety, and that's what he lives for), and Sony (as an over-reaction) stripped the ability to load OtherOS. I'll repeat that for the stubborn: George Hotz is the reason there is no more OtherOS on fat PS3's. You want to bitch about Sony removing it, bitch at him about it. Yes, it was a dick move by Sony, but it was perceived as a major security threat. Had Sony done nothing about it, they would have opened themselves up to many, *many* lawsuits by investors, which would make the class-action suits against them look like child's play. And parenthetically, you really have the stones to think that this somehow would compare to the American Revolution? For that amount of self-importance, are you're sure you're really not GeoHot trying more self promotion?
However, to lionize GeoHot the way that the
And after all, the point of them being a corporation is to make money. Sony did not find it in the generosity of their kind hearts to make a PS3 for the gaming for make money. The previous two versions damn near printed money for them, as well as the third one, to a lesser degree. With all of the other snafu's going on at the since the start of this generation (rootkit from their music division, piracy on the PSP, pricing themselves out of the contention at the start), they were not about to let someone break open the security on their system and let their licensing model to go hell. Whether or not you agree with it is a different argument all-together, but that's the way business are. As a rights-owner, they should have some method of keeping their security somewhat under wraps. Many parts of the DMCA are gross over-reaches, but the premise of them having some say to keep their security policies to themselves is a valid one If they lose less by going after a few people trying to compromise their security, instead of opening up themselves to shareholder lawsuits, there's going to be a hell of a less bad PR do deal with that having all of the Sony shareholders look at the company and say "WTF is wrong with you?"
Now most rational (and sane) people would probably realize this as a "shot over the bow" and think to themselves "Eh, They did throw quite the hissy-fit, so it may be a good idea to lay low," but of course, not St. George. The minute fail0verflow finds the key, which they kept fairly low-key, he takes it and broadcasts it out to the internet. For someone who already had Sony pissed for something else, that was a monumentally retarded thing to do. On top of that, he has the gall to say something to the effect of "Hey, big three game makers, if you don't want your security cracked, you better hire me." And if you take a look at *any* of the EULA's of the big 3 consoles right now, they all say *hack our shit, and you will be taken to court." The only difference this time is that Sony finally said "Enough is enough" and finally made an example of St. George.
Hopefully, Sony will have enough common sense to put back OtherOS into a future firmware, now that they shifted the signing around and re-secured the system, but I'm not holding my breath on it.
No, actually you're a shill for showing a bit of common sense, which doesn't work very well for the discussion. Bringing up actual facts, such as Sony just kicks people off PSN if they detect CFW, or that the actual lawsuit is about a DMCA violation tends to anger the 4chan converts here on /. You'd be better off convincing a birther that Obama is from Hawaii than convincing people that GeoHot is in court due to his own actions.
So, by your logic, if you decompiled something, such as one of the Office executables and during the decompile, you discovered a flaw that would let you bypass the 25-character key and Windows Genuine Advantage before setup and the activation after setup. Now that you have the key, you could either:
a) send something to MS, saying "Hey, I found a security flaw with x you might want to fix" or
b) post something on YouTube to the equivalent of "HEY EVERYONE!!!! I CAN GET AROUND WGA AND WINDOWS ACTIVATION!!!!1!one!! Now I'm not saying that you should pirate Office, but here's the flaw and how to exploit it."
Obviously, you would be in no legal trouble doing B, right? You did purchase your copy of Office, so it should be yours to do whatever you want to with it. I mean, you did pay for your copy of Office just like you paid for your copy of all of the firmware included on the PS3 (as well as accept their TOS when it comes to the OS on the first boot of the system), so there should be no legal implications, correct?
How about for arguments sake, you go ahead and try B, and let all of us here know how it works out for you, ok?
*sigh*....*facepalm*....And I thought my reading/legal comprehension was off today.....
No, I cannot claim to own "12345" as my own number if it were the combination to my luggage. But, if you get a hold of the combination to that, I can go after you for releasing that combination to everyone. That is EXACTLY what Geohot is in trouble for.
This is not about copyrighting a key.... it is about distributing a security key that a) he should not have had and b) is used to secure something that is copyrighted (e.g. Firmware/software published by Sony).
You would have to be one hell of a contortionist to make the stretch that this is some sort of First Amendment issue. Whether or not the DMCA is a good law is still an entirely separate argument, but this is nowhere near a free speech issue.
What he did was release the key, which still happens to be Sony's private key (read: theirs), in order to bypass the security of this system. Fail0verflow, who actually found the key, did the (relatively) right thing and realized the screw-up and sat on it, which is why they're not in that much of legal trouble, Things would have been fine if that twit St. George wouldn't have done the internet equivalent of breaking out the bullhorn and yelling "Hey, I got my hands on the security key to the PS3, but don't use it for piracy *wink wink*" ... and THAT is why this case is where it is.
Yes, Sony has been a pretty big dick about things the last 5+ years(CD rootkit, general quality of their hardware, etc...), but speaking as a software dev, they do have the right to try to protect the works for their game studios/3rd parties who develop for their system. If they were let piracy run rampant on the machine, which face it, that's what most "homebrew" would have been for, PS3 gamers would only have to look forward to our yearly allotment of Madden/COD games.