We have not as yet seen a patch from them, and I know from the brief glance we gave to the source when this came to our attention yesterday that if submitted as it currently exists, it would be unacceptable, as they have ignored some of the more basic design concepts in Gaim's source. So my question stands, I remain rather curious where this idea (on both their part and/.'s) comes from.
As a gaim developer, I am rather annoyed that this has been posted to/. in its current form, as it will just generate huge amounts of needless traffic. MSN did not block all 3rd party clients, they just restricted access to the server to clients using msn protocol version 9. Gaim 0.70 or 0.71 (the current release) compiled with ssl support (provided by the gnutls or the combination of nss and nspr) will connect sucessfully to msn. There is however some trouble with our current proxy support that users are confusing with being blocked.
Next time you might try actually connecting with a recent version of gaim or at least visiting our website before assuming we are blocked.
It is very hard not to commit the occasional linux-ism when all your developers use linux. It further doesn't help that people just assume the software is bad and never bother to report the bug untill some time later when the project hits/. We are in touch with exactly ONE person who uses freebsd, I'll have him test this. hopefully we will be able to get a fix.
yes gaim does support reconnecting. just load the autorecon plugin that comes with gaim. anyone who has ever asked about this knows about its existance.
Correct. we weren't the target: jabber was. Jabber's aim transport uses the same libfaim libary gaim uses. libfaim's lead developer at the time, mid, and ours at the time, eric, together worked past the blocks.
you sound like oyu are, or have last used, gaim 0.54 or 0.53. the gaim faq at http://gaim.sf.net/faq.php describes what to do with the corrupted buddy lists these versions caused right after we added server side list support. in current versions of gaim, the only issues are that the local list (we don't trust the servers) re-adding buddies deleted by other clients, and the bug werein we read the groups from the server in a different order from how winaim does it.
BTDN. AOL tried to block libfaim, the library gaim uses for OSCAR(aim/icq) support last year in May and June. Each block attempt worked for a day or so at most. By the time they gave up, some winaim users were having trouble connecting because Gaim was mimicing winaim so closely packet-wise the server was having false positives. So we aren't really worried that AOL would have better luck this time around.
or you could actually pause for a second and see what Christians say about the existance of pain in the lives of belivers, look at the book of Job in the Bible for instance. You will find that it is believed that Heaven is the ultimate good, far surpasing anything you can view, and thus test, here on earth. You will further find that in bad things happen to good people 1)to test their faith, giving them a chance to grow into someone more worthy of heaven 2)because Christians also believe that there is a being, less powerful than God, who desires to turn people away from God, and naturally pain is a means this being (the devil) will use and 3)because free will is not really free if you are only free to make meaningless choices that have no consequence, and so one of the consequences of sin, your own and others, is pain.
Gaim supports AIM, ICQ, Y!, MSN, Jabber, IRC, Gadu-Gadu, Zepher, and Napster (though why you would want to use napster via an opennap server just to talk is beyond me). As such, supporting 7 protocols, it suprasses Trillian as an all-in-one messanger (besides the fact it vastly pre-dates trillian), and is open source to boot. Its amazing that gaim's only mentioned a handfull of times while trillian is in almost every other post it seems.
I would again dierect you to www.arn.org There is such a thing as scientific creationism, VERY distinct from literally interpreting the bible's story of creation. There ARE flaws in evolution theory, especially macro evolution. The fossil record doesn't fully support evolution, and genetics, if looked at via the concept of "irreducible complexity," can be used to argue against evolution. All this is explained FAR better than i could ever do.
Anyone REALLY serious about learning about scientific creationism and/or the SCIENTIFIC arguments against evolution, should visit www.arn.org . See the section on Author's Pages, about half-way down the page. These are professors in different fields writing, not students like me (SHORT bio's are included if you click the link to a particular writer).
Normally I would be on the side of economics over race as the determining factor in a situation like this, but in this case I must disagree. Even if you only look at middle and upper class families, black families are only 1/3 to 1/4 as likely to be connected to the internet as white families with equivalent incomes according to an article i saw in the nytimes and a second i saw in the Washington Post.
true story, just wish i could remember where from so i could include citations. anyway, same time period. knock knock. police do you have jews? "yes" police go to next door cause, of couse no one with jews in the house would admit it.
placing blame were it belongs
on
Why Kids Kill
·
· Score: 1
I have read a lot of these articles, and just about everything has been said, but it is here and there. A lot of people want to blame guns, the internet, the other kids, the parents, ectera. A few want to blame them all. Many say "it is not such and such, it is this other factor." Several i think have hit the nail on the head, or come close.
What kind of parent doesn't know that his or her kid is building that many bombs in the basement? Yeah kids can hide a lot from thier parents, but there were WAY too many bombs in that school to reasonably be able to hide them all.
I am a frshman in college now, but i remember middle school and the bigging of high school very well. i was picked incredibly, i have lived though more preasure than anything i have heard in the news suggests these kids experienced at the hands of thier peers. We cannot and should not expect better from high schoolers, we call them kids for a reason, they are still learning to be mature and avoid giving such abuse. Considering adult culture and how much happens in it from road rage to gossip, some never figure it out.
Guns have been available through out this countries history. And while it is so common it is starting to lose it's meaning, guns don't kill people. Indeed, becuase of guns fewwer people were killed in this tradgedy, cause since they did not call in a bomb threat, no one would have found the bombs spread though out the school if the kids had not come in shooting, and the whole school and all the kids in it wouldahve blown up. Are we going to put waiting periods on pipes and propane tanks now? They would have been far deadlier than any gun if they had exploded.
Games and movies do not make people kill each other. They may make violent tendencies more dominant, but even that lacks proof. These things, all the things i have mentined, are mere symptoms of the problem. Our culture. If these kids had believed in the God of any ofthe world's major religions, they would not have done this. If this society did not make it seem wrong to believe in God, to teach morality (all religions teach not to kill), then this would never have happened. Teachers are afriad to disapline. Parents don't want to stife the child's creativity and independence. So where does a child learn to cope with moral delemas? Who can he or she go to to ask about right and wrong if morality is self-defined? Obviously they did not think it wrong, obviously their self-defined code allowed for this ultimate revenge.
Almost every one wants to blame some specific item in our culture, because so few are willing to admit that thier values or lack thereof, might contribute to this behavior. Guns would be less prevelent if people did not feel a need for them, or did not obess over them. And anyway, some of the stats I have been hearing on the news indicate that violent crime is LOWER in states that allow citizens to carry weapons however they please. Violence would be less common in movies, music and games if there was no market for it. These things REFLECT the culture that those kids lived in, they do not cause it.
You mentioned that you will not be letting newbies moderate, so I am probly excluded for a long time now, but i see several problems. -i don't know how it works, but if i follow a link and then come back, have i just increased my chances of being one of those psycho's who load the page 100 times a day? well i am probly in that groop any way, i get board between classes, and come here just hoping for an interesting new story to have appeared to give me something fun to do. i don't think this should make me ineligible to ever moderate at some point. -i don't post very often at all, but it seems that the best moderator for a given section would also have a lot to add to that section, a lot of people have said this i know, but you should not make the ban of post or moderate but not both so definative/absolute. -obviously you need some criterea, but these two seem particularly stringent, excluding valuable contrabutions and or making moderation a chore that people will want to avoid.
Slashdot Mirror
the fink installer provides access to gaim, or just use adium, its based on our code.
We have not as yet seen a patch from them, and I know from the brief glance we gave to the source when this came to our attention yesterday that if submitted as it currently exists, it would be unacceptable, as they have ignored some of the more basic design concepts in Gaim's source. So my question stands, I remain rather curious where this idea (on both their part and /.'s) comes from.
As a gaim developer, I'm rather curious to know where this idea that we will be providing a win32 version of this fork has come from.
As a gaim developer, I am rather annoyed that this has been posted to /. in its current form, as it will just generate huge amounts of needless traffic. MSN did not block all 3rd party clients, they just restricted access to the server to clients using msn protocol version 9. Gaim 0.70 or 0.71 (the current release) compiled with ssl support (provided by the gnutls or the combination of nss and nspr) will connect sucessfully to msn. There is however some trouble with our current proxy support that users are confusing with being blocked.
Next time you might try actually connecting with a recent version of gaim or at least visiting our website before assuming we are blocked.
It is very hard not to commit the occasional linux-ism when all your developers use linux. It further doesn't help that people just assume the software is bad and never bother to report the bug untill some time later when the project hits /. We are in touch with exactly ONE person who uses freebsd, I'll have him test this. hopefully we will be able to get a fix.
Um, what version are you using? that's not at all what happens to myself or any of the other developers.
yes gaim does support reconnecting. just load the autorecon plugin that comes with gaim. anyone who has ever asked about this knows about its existance.
Correct. we weren't the target: jabber was. Jabber's aim transport uses the same libfaim libary gaim uses. libfaim's lead developer at the time, mid, and ours at the time, eric, together worked past the blocks.
you might also want to look at gaim-e at http://gaim-e.sf.net it uses gpg, not blowfish, but irrc it has been more maintained.
you sound like oyu are, or have last used, gaim 0.54 or 0.53. the gaim faq at http://gaim.sf.net/faq.php describes what to do with the corrupted buddy lists these versions caused right after we added server side list support. in current versions of gaim, the only issues are that the local list (we don't trust the servers) re-adding buddies deleted by other clients, and the bug werein we read the groups from the server in a different order from how winaim does it.
the ICQ plugin is deprecated. hence the name change on OSCAR to AIM/ICQ. use that, and you will have better luck.
gaim-e is a plugin providing gpg encryption for gaim. it is available at http://gaim-e.sf.net
BTDN. AOL tried to block libfaim, the library gaim uses for OSCAR(aim/icq) support last year in May and June. Each block attempt worked for a day or so at most. By the time they gave up, some winaim users were having trouble connecting because Gaim was mimicing winaim so closely packet-wise the server was having false positives. So we aren't really worried that AOL would have better luck this time around.
or you could actually pause for a second and see what Christians say about the existance of pain in the lives of belivers, look at the book of Job in the Bible for instance. You will find that it is believed that Heaven is the ultimate good, far surpasing anything you can view, and thus test, here on earth. You will further find that in bad things happen to good people 1)to test their faith, giving them a chance to grow into someone more worthy of heaven 2)because Christians also believe that there is a being, less powerful than God, who desires to turn people away from God, and naturally pain is a means this being (the devil) will use and 3)because free will is not really free if you are only free to make meaningless choices that have no consequence, and so one of the consequences of sin, your own and others, is pain.
Gaim supports AIM, ICQ, Y!, MSN, Jabber, IRC, Gadu-Gadu, Zepher, and Napster (though why you would want to use napster via an opennap server just to talk is beyond me). As such, supporting 7 protocols, it suprasses Trillian as an all-in-one messanger (besides the fact it vastly pre-dates trillian), and is open source to boot. Its amazing that gaim's only mentioned a handfull of times while trillian is in almost every other post it seems.
I would again dierect you to www.arn.org There is such a thing as scientific creationism, VERY distinct from literally interpreting the bible's story of creation. There ARE flaws in evolution theory, especially macro evolution. The fossil record doesn't fully support evolution, and genetics, if looked at via the concept of "irreducible complexity," can be used to argue against evolution. All this is explained FAR better than i could ever do.
Anyone REALLY serious about learning about scientific creationism and/or the SCIENTIFIC arguments against evolution, should visit www.arn.org . See the section on Author's Pages, about half-way down the page. These are professors in different fields writing, not students like me (SHORT bio's are included if you click the link to a particular writer).
Normally I would be on the side of economics over race as the determining factor in a situation like this, but in this case I must disagree. Even if you only look at middle and upper class families, black families are only 1/3 to 1/4 as likely to be connected to the internet as white families with equivalent incomes according to an article i saw in the nytimes and a second i saw in the Washington Post.
true story, just wish i could remember where from so i could include citations. anyway, same time period. knock knock. police do you have jews? "yes" police go to next door cause, of couse no one with jews in the house would admit it.
I have read a lot of these articles, and just about everything has been said, but it is here and there. A lot of people want to blame guns, the internet, the other kids, the parents, ectera. A few want to blame them all. Many say "it is not such and such, it is this other factor." Several i think have hit the nail on the head, or come close.
What kind of parent doesn't know that his or her kid is building that many bombs in the basement? Yeah kids can hide a lot from thier parents, but there were WAY too many bombs in that school to reasonably be able to hide them all.
I am a frshman in college now, but i remember middle school and the bigging of high school very well. i was picked incredibly, i have lived though more preasure than anything i have heard in the news suggests these kids experienced at the hands of thier peers. We cannot and should not expect better from high schoolers, we call them kids for a reason, they are still learning to be mature and avoid giving such abuse. Considering adult culture and how much happens in it from road rage to gossip, some never figure it out.
Guns have been available through out this countries history. And while it is so common it is starting to lose it's meaning, guns don't kill people. Indeed, becuase of guns fewwer people were killed in this tradgedy, cause since they did not call in a bomb threat, no one would have found the bombs spread though out the school if the kids had not come in shooting, and the whole school and all the kids in it wouldahve blown up. Are we going to put waiting periods on pipes and propane tanks now? They would have been far deadlier than any gun if they had exploded.
Games and movies do not make people kill each other. They may make violent tendencies more dominant, but even that lacks proof. These things, all the things i have mentined, are mere symptoms of the problem. Our culture. If these kids had believed in the God of any ofthe world's major religions, they would not have done this. If this society did not make it seem wrong to believe in God, to teach morality (all religions teach not to kill), then this would never have happened. Teachers are afriad to disapline. Parents don't want to stife the child's creativity and independence. So where does a child learn to cope with moral delemas? Who can he or she go to to ask about right and wrong if morality is self-defined? Obviously they did not think it wrong, obviously their self-defined code allowed for this ultimate revenge.
Almost every one wants to blame some specific item in our culture, because so few are willing to admit that thier values or lack thereof, might contribute to this behavior. Guns would be less prevelent if people did not feel a need for them, or did not obess over them. And anyway, some of the stats I have been hearing on the news indicate that violent crime is LOWER in states that allow citizens to carry weapons however they please. Violence would be less common in movies, music and games if there was no market for it. These things REFLECT the culture that those kids lived in, they do not cause it.
You mentioned that you will not be letting newbies moderate, so I am probly excluded for a long time now, but i see several problems.
-i don't know how it works, but if i follow a link and then come back, have i just increased my chances of being one of those psycho's who load the page 100 times a day? well i am probly in that groop any way, i get board between classes, and come here just hoping for an interesting new story to have appeared to give me something fun to do. i don't think this should make me ineligible to ever moderate at some point.
-i don't post very often at all, but it seems that the best moderator for a given section would also have a lot to add to that section, a lot of people have said this i know, but you should not make the ban of post or moderate but not both so definative/absolute.
-obviously you need some criterea, but these two seem particularly stringent, excluding valuable contrabutions and or making moderation a chore that people will want to avoid.