Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the keep-on-IMing-in-the-free-world dept.
sidesh0w writes "Today the folks from Gaim released an alpha version of their Instant Messenger client for Win32." Gaim is the only IM client I've ever used; I still don't like IM, but Gaim is one sweet program.
244 comments
Bound to happen..
by
psamuels
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Now that the GTK+ Windows port has started to mature, this sort of thing is inevitable. The biggest obstacle to portability in ANSI C these days is usually your GUI layer. The rest of your portability problems - well, that's why we also have glib for Windows..
-- "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
Re:Bound to happen..
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Another app taking advantage of GTK 2.x on Windows is the newsreader Pan. Since I don't use Windows, it's hard to say how that version is going, but if the GNOME/GTK version is any indictation, Agent has some real competition.
-- Garg
Alumnus, Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters
Re:Compare and contrast
by
numark
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· Score: 2, Informative
It's not necessarily...it's just an alternative instant messenging program.
For open source to really succeed, we need to have more than one application in the same area. This is so the average Joe who, say, doesn't like Jabber, has an alternative and is more likely to choose and stay with open source. Before now, if you didn't like Jabber for AIM, the only alternative was to use AOL's closed-source client. Now, if you don't like Jabber, you still have an open-source alternative. That's what it's all about.
-- Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
Re:Compare and contrast
by
uchian
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· Score: 4, Informative
Gaim is client side, rather than server side. The main advantage of this is that AOL, etc. cannot block GAIM from accessing their networks, whilst it is fairly simple for them to notice that a jabber server is acting as a gateway and to block that.
Re:Compare and contrast
by
Chris+Croome
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· Score: 1
Gaim is client side, rather than server side. The main advantage of this is that AOL, etc. cannot block GAIM from accessing their networks...
Good point, AOL, Yahoo and the other commercial services are often doing stuff to block other clients.
I've been using a mixture of Gabber and GAIM for the last month or so.
Gabber has nicer logs and supports PGP signing of presence (jabber) and SSL encryption (jabber again) but GAIM supports IRC and the new Yahoo protocol (I haven't got around to compiling a new on for my Jabber server).
Actually in the earlier days, GAIM had several problems with AIM blocking them specifically. I remember several occasions where the Oscar protocol had to be abandoned for days in favor of the miserable TOC protocol while the developers figured out what Aim had thrown at them this time... I think the main reason this hasn't been a problem is that the Aim official client on Linux sucks and they know it, so Gaim hasn't really bothered them. Although it's great to see my favorite client on a new platform, I worry that a Windows port will catch Aol's attention and the blocks will start once again...
The official client on Mac OS X sucks, too, and they have to know it, but Adium still won't work every once in a while, and it even uses the damned TOC servers.
I don't see that. Jabber's AIM link isn't all that great, I'll admit, mostly because it lacks a lot of features, and many of the jabber XML functions don't translate too well into AOL's IM protocol.
But it's never had a problem with too many users, simply because AOL sees it the same way it sees all the connections which come from a firewall or port address-translated LAN. We have been testing it at my office for months and never been blocked, except when AOL changes their protocol rules - and less than a day later a new copy of the Jabber AIM gateway gets released.
It works fine, as it should being an official release. It just lacks in features and it is almost never updated. One of the biggest problems is that it still uses the TOC (aim's open, very small feature set) protocol. Or at least it did the last time I looked at it. For example, when I tried it, there was no built in way to check a user's away message. This is a result of using TOC as opposed to Oscar.
Functionally there's not anything wrong with it, it just doesn't measure up to some of the other clients out there. Aol knew this, and pretty much gave up on the idea of being able to compete in the Linux market. I believe that's why the blocks stopped right about the time development on the Aim Linux client slowed to a near halt.
Re:Compare and contrast
by
joib
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· Score: 1, Offtopic
"I'll bet she gives great helmet." - Dark Helmet
Waaah! I just watched spaceballs (again)! Awesome flick...:)
Re:Compare and contrast
by
Deth_Master
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· Score: 1
There's yet another OpenSource IM client that can do AIM, MSN, ICQ, Jabber, and Yahoo. EveryBuddy. It's the one I've been using for a while not. Not quite as good as Trillian, but it runs on my Linux OS. When I load into windows to play games, I use Trillian. I haven't tried Trillian Pro yet, only because I've yet to download it. In any case, Everybuddy has been my choice IM prog for as long as I've used linux. Which, isn't too long, unfortunately.
That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it!
-- find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown:us
Re:Compare and contrast
by
Drachemorder
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· Score: 2
Not to mention, Trillian isn't even free (as in beer) any more. Yes, I know they still release a "free" version, but it lacks even features I'd consider critical.
I do not know what you are talking about. I just upgraded from v0.73 to v0.74 (which is the new "free" version). I notice no cutting out of features.
Of course, you could have been implying that Trillian before Trillian Pro (the new "not-free") lacked features you considered critical. But then, you should have said so in the first place.
Re:Compare and contrast
by
Spy+Hunter
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· Score: 2
Question: Why can't jabber client authors include a stripped-down jabber server whose only purpose is to run the AIM transport? That way everyone who wants to connect to AIM through Jabber does it from their own computer, making it the same as gaim or Trillian.
It's an unfair comparison. GAIM is a piece of software and jabber is a spec.
Either you're asking how's gaim better than or you're asking how is the oscar spec better than the jabber spec.
Personally, I am one with many non-tech friends and relatives who are already on AOL or AIM. If I use jabber only, then how do I communicate with them? I know *not a single person* (whom I've met in person that is--internet people don't count) who uses jabber and only know a few who even know what it is.
An IM system is pretty pointless when there's noone to talk to, at least from a personal perspective. If everyone I knew was on MSN I'd be firing up an MSN messenger client. AIM is easier for my windows-bound friends so It's what I use too.
Back in the day, before Jabber existed, I downloaded MSN Messenger because I was in an online group and we wanted something to communicate on. I thought it was pretty cool, but I didn't know a single person (by your definition) who used MSN. So I showed all of my friends how awesome this new instant messaging thing was, and they all started using it.
MSN (and AIM and ICQ, etc) was pretty useless until people started referring other people to it. That's what we should be doing with Jabber, not just complaining how few people use it, but getting people to use it.
Re:Compare and contrast
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Why would they switch when Jabber offers little or no apparent advantage?
These are not generally the type of people who think choice is good in software. They'd rather have the "Official Jabber Client" than any of the dozen or so viable ones out there.
And why the heck would someone who dials up AOL for their net access use anything else?
It's one thing to being people to instant messaging, but it's quite another to advocate a switch in systems when they're all comparable...
again choice and openness aren't arguments for these people. Sure I care, but they don't. Jabber really has nothing to offer them over AIM.
Sure, it's open, technically sound, and having some rockin features for certain users (such as multiple locations), but these aren't the type of people i'm talking about. Jabber isn't easy enough yet and the switch wouldn't be worth the effort for them...
The switch would't be worth the effort for me. I'd have no use for the client once emerged. Noone to talk to. Round and Round we go.
Still you're comparing apples and oranges as the parent to my previous post was. Getting people to come to instant messaging by offering a specific client is not the same as saying "ok. you're already in instant messaging, now switch clients."
This is truly great. I also have used gaim for the past few years and have been increasingly dissatisfied with the Windows alternatives. Previosly I have had to content myself with Gaim running remotely through Cygwin and ssh.
At long last I will be able to use blaim (blowfish encrypted AIM) in windows. That is if I can figure out the compile options;-).
Hopefully the development will stay active on this front.
Re:Great Stuff
by
L.Schierer
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· Score: 2, Informative
you might also want to look at gaim-e at http://gaim-e.sf.net it uses gpg, not blowfish, but irrc it has been more maintained.
Yes, GAIM is great for Linux but on Windows, I use Trillian Supports all the protocols as well as IRC.
Including Jabber? I skimmed a couple of their web pages and didn't notice it.
I plan to roll out an experimental Jabber server here soon - cross-platform support is nice for that sort of thing, as most of my users are still on Windows. gaim/win32 sounds very useful - we'll see whether it actually works yet.
Or is there another IM protocol out there with a free server implementation? I thought Jabber was pretty much the only game in town if you didn't want to rely on someone else for your IM service.
-- "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
I, however, have extreme difficulty with Trillian. It simply doesn't work when placed on the other side of a simple SNAT gateway. I can receive messages but not send them and Trillian fails to contact the ICQ database as well, so all I got to look at are MSN names and ICQ numbers. Hence why I switched back to MSN and ICQ (Lite)
Yes indeed. My question about Trillian and Jabber was partly curiosity, but mostly to confirm my suspicion that the standard knee-jerk reaction "why bother with other IM clients, just use Trillian" is not always correct. (:
(My question further down about wanting to see the Trillian source code to verify its alleged lack of spyware was another devilishly clever attempt to point this out.)
-- "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
MSN requires a shitload of ports to be forwarded in to a specific client, something like 1000 IIRC. I might be lumping that together with the MS Gaming Zone, the only time I used MSN messenger was when I used to play combat flight sim a couple years ago when I still had a Windows box.
ICQ uses UDP and I believe you have to play with UDP NAT and timeout options to get it to work reliably. Again, I havn't used ICQ since ipchains was the main linux firewall system, so things may have changed now.
It's possible that the "real" clients compensate for the firewall better than trillian, but I'm sure you could get it all working with some firewall/client tweaking.
-- I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
I use trillian when I'm at my parents house. Its a current version. I use gaim when I'm a home. I far prefer gaim. Why? Because trillian's interface is ugly, cluttered, and non-standard. (There is no 'intuitive' interface, just standard.) Gaim is pure, simple, and easy.
If you didn't notice, the story is about gaim. Trillian may well be great, but that is nothing to do with story. They didn't port to win32 because it lacked good clients, they did it "just for the heck of it".
If you didn't notice, the story is about gaim. Trillian may well be great, but that is nothing to do with story.
Actually, while the story may be about GAIM, it's also about non-AOL IM clients, and I think in such a discussion, there's nothing "off-topic" in talking about other non-AOL IM clients. Now, if someone starts talking about something they hate about AOL or Time Warner, I'd be inclined to agree with you.
You do know that Trillian is skinnable, right? The default skin is fugly as hell, but I'm currently using the Microscopic skin. Nice and clean.
-- -- derby
Re:Trillian
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
> Because trillian's interface is ugly, cluttered, and non-standard. (There is no 'intuitive' interface, just standard.)
Welcome to the world of Windows. I just tried the port of GAIM, but it doesn't even support skins! There is a huge community of Trillian skinners, and if GAIM wants more than 2 people using it on windows, it should support skins.
Gaim uses GTK. Get a GTK skin. Individual application skins make everything look different. Applications should use toolkits (QT, GTK) and then users can skin those.
I hate skinnable interfaces. They never have a standard, non-bloated version of the interface available. Let's talk, for example, about your favorite, Trillian. I only connect to ICQ and AIM with it, but for some reason, it takes up 15 MB of RAM anyway. The skinnable interface only allows you to replace bitmaps with other bitmaps, which are put into place according to XML.
All I really need in an IM client is a listbox, incoming and outgoing textboxes, and a send button. Even taking into account the memory required for the implementation of the messaging protocol, the memory needed shouldn't even come close to 15 MB. I'm not impressed by the "niftiness" of the skins for Trillian. They're mostly junk. Oh, and IIRC, the skins most downloaded from Trillian's skins site are the ones that match the basic OS's scheme. Go figure.
Sorry for the rant, but, IMO, skinnable apps should have a non-skinned mode too, that doesn't store hundreds of pointless pixmaps or parse long XML files every time a window opens or resizes... I used Trillian for a while because there was nothing much better, but now GAIM is going to work as nicely on my Windows desktop as on my Linux one.
Why aren't the lockout programs working!? Gir! Gir! Unleash the monkey!
Yes, but take a look at your system resources and see how much memory your trillian process is using, it's bloated. It would be better if they could modularize the program. For example: If you aren't using ICQ then why load the capability for it.
I'd also like to see an IM program that could throttle it's resource usage if you are not using it. IM is an application that can sometimes just sit idle for long periods of time. I say either make use of the program or let go of the resources until I need to use it.
the new version of Trillian.74 which came out a few days ago has cut significan;y on bloat and memory leacks. Currently my Trill takes up 5,584K with all 4 IM loaded and 3 busy IRC chatrooms going at once. Other people have reported a memory footprint of less then 3MB.
Never mind all of those security holes in IRC that they ignored for about two months. They *just* released an update for that stuff and it had been floated on Bugtraq (and they were notified) quite a while ago.
While trillian is a decent Windows AIM client, the lack of the ability to parse html in profiles and away messages is, IMO, a serious downfall. This is a simple feature to include, but they do not provide this feature with the free client. I had been using Trillian for it's ability to keep all IM conversations in one window, but now that there's Gaim, I see no reason to use Trillian.
Way off topic, but it's kind of scary to see your name on a post that you didn't write. But then you realize that it wasn't you, and there are other people with your last name...
Michael Derby
Re:Trillian
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Of course "it's open source" is valid. Not to you, maybe, but you don't get to choose what my priorities are.
Currently, Logged into everything but MSN, on a Windows 2K box with 1GB RAM, Trillian is using about 11MB. Ha, who cares? With a 1gb of ram, I'm not losing sleep over it.
I'm past the days of caring if a program can use less memory/resources. When I only has 64 or 128K of ram, I was squeezing for every byte, but now that I can throw 2GB of RAM in a box if i need to, I'll just keep up with the bloaters, I guess.
Not arguing that bloat is ok, it isn't, but I've stopped getting pissed off about it.
Yes, but take a look at your system resources and see how much memory your trillian process is using
Using the Microscopic skin, plus AIM and ICQ and a contact list of ~134, ~6 megs.
The latest AIM (5.0) uses ~12+ megs.
GAIM for Windows using only AIM, ~8 megs.
-- ...and that's all there is to it.
Re:Trillian
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You are seriously kidding?
While Trillian may be non-standard and initially a pain to use, it's certainly a LOT better than gaim, both on the eyes and in terms of functionality. There are so many annoying things that gaim does, like popping up windows all the time, or just crashing, that I ended up editting the source and removing the pointless info boxes!
(Well, at least there's one good point.. it's open source!:)
Plus the new Trillian Pro is out now, which looks verrrry interesting, Mr Bond..
If its using alot of memory for you then you either have a very large history that its keeping track of or your doing something completely wrong. For example on my machine ICQ used an average of 12-16 megs of memory. when I cleared out the history it dropped to around 10. Trillian however while connected to all services except irc uses 10. aYhen connected to ICQ by itself its around 7.
Re:Trillian
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
GAIM has tabbed windows and a simple interface. Trillian doesn't have tabbed windows, and has an ugly skinnable complicated interface.
I haven't been able to compile it so far, as it doesn't support 3.1alpha/beta yet.:/ Not that it should, of course, until 3.1 is out..just annoying.
Re:Mmmm
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
kopete > * in linux trillian > * in windows
Re:Mmmm
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
if it doesn't compile with kde 3.1, that's a BIC bug in KDE 3.1, and you should report it..
i wouldnt be surprised...
by
hfastedge
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· Score: 0
is there anything requiring aol to keep its servers open to apps like gaim?
I mean, once gaim starts taking signifigant user-base away, AND if it refuses to do banners, then I think its a lost cause, because AOL could pull the plug.
But, hopefully, the ratio of dorks to marketable people will stay low enough.
Re:i wouldnt be surprised...
by
AllynM
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· Score: 1
The last time aim tried to "pull the plug" on a client that wasnt their own (trillian), they got a nasty backlash from the press. I think they learned their lesson... for now at least.
Do these IM clients sufficiently encrypt their data stream (at let's say 3DES strength) ?
Otherwise they ain't suitable for non hobbyist use.
And personally I won't use them in this case for personal chat. Not everybody should know what I'm saying to my girlfriend.
-- Owner of a Mensa membership card.
Re:Encryption ?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
"Not everybody should know what I'm saying to my girlfriend."
Could you not just whisper to your hand?
Re:Encryption ?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
LICQ supports secure (as far as SSL is secure) communication via openSSL. AFAIK it works only with other licq users, though.
Trillian, unfortunately, isn't open source. Nevertheless, it's still the best IM client I've ever used.
Re:noooo, use Trillian :)
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Trillian is not open sores software, and will never be. If you care to see if it has spyware, I recommend the best disassembler available for any platform, IDA Pro.
GAIM has a lot further to go before it reaches trillian's capabilities, especially with what windows users want (like good skinning).
Re:noooo, use Trillian :)
by
AnyoneEB
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· Score: 1
I tried Trillian, but I didn't like it. One of my problems is I couldn't figure out how to disable docking to the side of my monitor. While it's a nice feature with it enabled I can't move it to my second monitor, which I use mainly for IMs.
-- Centralization breaks the internet.
Re:noooo, use Trillian :)
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Trill doesn't support Jabber, which is what I now use 80% of the time. I have my own Jab server running at home too, so Trill at work doesn't cut it. I use Gaim, but now it's also out for Win, I'll have it anytime there too. 2 cool.
P
Re:noooo, use Trillian :)
by
nuggetman
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· Score: 1
One of my problems is I couldn't figure out how to disable docking to the side of my monitor.
Menu > Preferences > Contact List > uncheck "disable docking"
Wasn't too hard, eh?
-- ...and that's all there is to it.
Re:noooo, use Trillian :)
by
Jeff+Probst
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· Score: 1
seriously, what are you going to do when you have the source? grep for spyware?
Re:noooo, use Trillian :)
by
psamuels
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· Score: 1
seriously, what are you going to do when you have the source? grep for spyware?
Heh. (:
Actually, a lot of having the source is a psychological effect which, for all that, is quite effective. As it is now, the vendor can say "Trillian has no ads and no spyware" and we have no way of checking this, short of running it in a room full of computers for a few weeks, behind a firewall that logs all packets not destined for known AOL/MSN/etc servers. This is impractical, so the vendor can basically get away with saying whatever they want even if they do sport spyware.
Sure, the install file is over 2 MB, and the source could potentially be quite a bit bigger, so one person isn't going to read through the whole thing over an afternoon. But unless the source is intentionally obfuscated to a great degree, it should be pretty easy to isolate the bits that actually do network calls, and audit those. I personally may or may not do such an audit - but you (and Trillian's vendor) can be sure that someone will.
Therefore, if Trillian were open source (or even "community source" or some such rot), there is no way they could hide things like spyware for long. They know this, so they'd be stupid to try.
-- "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
This is good news if you look at it as a way to give windows ppl a chance to try free open sourced software. But I find it bad news as the more good free software ported to propietary platforms, the less open platforms will be needed.
-- -------
The last Sig. got fired.
Re:Good news and bad news.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
This may not be so bad, really. Without the OS obstacle the Free software can compete and adapt directly with the competition. This should result in better Free software for all platforms. Plus, once people become accustomed to these programs it is even more trivial to swap out the OS undernieth.
Re:Good news and bad news.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
> the more good free software [gets] ported to > propriatory platforms, the less open platforms > will be needed. > No...see it this way: If applications like Mozilla, OpenOffice, Gaim and whatever else are also available on Windows (or Mac), it means switching to an alternative platform underneath becomes far easier to do, as people already know the user interfaces and usage of these programs. The main inhibitor to switching from Windows to Linux is inertia and a non-ignorable (although mostly denied) fear-factor of plunging into the unknown. A lot of people have put in a *lot* of time learning how "to use the computer" (i.e. Windows stuff) and don't want to see their hard-earned results become irrelevant by switching to some other thing now, even if it's better in the end. The more they know already on the application level (as in using Mozilla on Windows and Linux is the same), the easier it will be for them to transition to an open platform altogether!
As far as Win32 IM solutions go, this is better than Trillian...how? The answer: "It's open source!" isn't valid. While it may become better in time, right now Trillian is the flat out king of Win32 IM solutions in terms of versatility and usability.
I don't doubt that it's a fantastic (and it may very well be the best) IM solution on the Linux platform.
Maybe in time, this will be important news to Win32 users, but right now it's just another program that isn't as good as others already available.
Actually, there is file transfer support. I think you need to be using TOC to get it, though. It is not easy to send files, but you can definitely receive them.
This tip is for people who like more icq than aim, kde than gnome, qt than gtk.
For a long time I was in search for a good icq clone for linux, tryied kicq, licq, kxicq, kopete and others.
But this week I found sim-icq - http://sim-icq.sourceforge.net), it even have a windows port and a windowmaker applet. It's full of options, as most kde/linux programs. Really good, and I'm happy with it.
Re:Tip for ICQ/KDE users
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
The win32 port does not work very well on my machine.
IM in companies: a bad idea
by
kipsate
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· Score: 4, Informative
[ Slightly off-topic ]
I'm somewhat sceptic to Instant Messaging in companies. I've seen it fail at our company, where they insisted to try it out.
I see it like this: if you have a message for someone and you don't need an instant reply, e-mail is perfect. If you want to send code snippets, or need to transfer information that is somewhat complicated, use e-mail. It enables you to write down everything in a structured way and the receiver can archive the message for later retrieval.
If you want an instant reply, because you need to discuss something, USE THE PHONE. It is much faster than typing, no matter how fast you type. It is much more convenient, you can exchange information really quickly. Especially in combination of a tool like VNC, which enables you to see eachothers screen and take over mouse and keyboard remotely.
In our case there was another unfortunate side-effect of IMing. Within weeks, the IT guys were chatting for hours per day with the girls in the office. Some of them often had three chat sessions open simultaneously. Productivity dropped significantly.
IM silently died.
-- My karma ran over your dogma
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Funny
At my company we use e-mail, IRC, and Usenet. Works like a charm.
About the side-effect of IMing - girls.. Well, we don't have anyone here, so I guess it's out of the question.:)
Any girls with a knownlegde of UNIX looking for a job?
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
oyenstikker
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· Score: 2
We use AIM at the company I work for. We staff computer labs at a college, so the labbies can communicate with each other, with the techs, and with the operations office without disrupting the people working in the labs with noise. The only problem is that when AIM goes down, we're in the dark. (I've tried to get them to run their own IRC or jabber server, but to no avail.)
-- The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Trinition
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· Score: 5, Insightful
If you want to send code snippets, or need to transfer information that is somewhat complicated, use e-mail
Didn't you just say you might not get an instant reply? So what if you need to show someone a code snippet but DO need an instant reply?
archive the message for later retrieval.
Don't know what IM client you used, but I use Trillian, and it does archive things for me.
If you want an instant reply, because you need to discuss something, USE THE PHONE. It is much faster than typing, no matter how fast you type
OK, I have a little exercise for you. Read the following out loud on th ephone, and imagine someone on th other end trying to transpose this back into text:
for(int index = 0; index < list.length; index ++) {
x &= ((Integer)list.get(index)) << index; }
Do you seriously think saying "curly-brace", "binary shift to the left", and "cast to Integer class" are easier to say than type/read?
And what of presence? Do you have some way of known if the person you immediately need is available on the other end? Suppose there were three people who could answer your question... you might have to call all three to determine that no one is available, or sometimes at least more than one if the first guy isn't available. With IM presence, you ca see that immediately befoerehand.
Especially in combination of a tool like VNC
So you want people to mix-and-mach tools to try and come close to something that a new paradigm, IM, does perfectly well? Why even use a phone when you could use a telegraph? Why use a computer when you could use an abacus and some paper?
Within weeks, the IT guys were chatting for hours per day with the girls in the office
And they never did this with the phone? Or send each other e-mails? IM just made it so convenient that they started doing something they had so little drive to do before IM lowered the hurdle? Or maybe they're sepdning less time sending frivilous e-mail and using a more efficient conversational medium, saving disk sapce on the corporate mail server and gaining productivity?
Now, for some business cases that DO work!
Tier-3 support in city A conversing with Tier-2 support in city B, cutting out long distance costs.
Tier-3 support being able to participate in multiple conversations with Tier-2 simulatenously.
Completely tele-commuting-based company keeping their phone lines free for important calls while cutting&pasting code snippets back and forth.
Development office in city A conversing with development office in city B to get information immediately to anser the customer's question on the phone without perceived iterruption.
I don't know why everyone thinks IM is so teenagers can ask each for age/sex/location checks. It is a communication tool, and a very fast, conversational convenient one at that. People can use any conversation medium for good or bad (i.e. e-mail is getting overwhelmed with spam!) Don't chuck out the whole medium just because you've found one malignant thing growing in it. Just use your own judgement, and rules in the case of the fomer poster who works at a company where teh employees have no ethical control over their use of their work time (and the big bosses don't have thecalls to fire them).
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
LinuxHam
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· Score: 2
OTOH, IBM has used their own IM server product, Sametime, for years. There are more employees in my division than AT&T has *worldwide*, and a lot of us need to consult with each other. Sure, we have "follow me" phone numbers, but to successfully use the phone, a) you actually have to tell the system the number you're at, and b) you either have to run up your own phone card charges or the customer's phone charges.
I regularly IM people in Paris, London, Atlanta, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles (all work related) within minutes of each other or in parallel. Imagine if I took your advice and called all those people!
Finally, there's a great new system under development that rides overtop of Sametime and allows employees to post a question to organizational groups (all the way up to "everyone") The question slides in on the corner of the recipients' desktops for a few seconds with a button to click if anyone wants to provide an answer.
You may have only been thinking about a small business in one facility, but expand your horizon and you'll see its a very different world when you go global.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I find it quite useful at work. We quite often have phone meetings with 8 or more people at a time, and i use it to have discussions with some of the people on the conference without including everything. Say you have a couple op programmers, some business people, and project management. Quit often i will check with the other programmers to see what we think of management plans. And then we can present one front if we want to object to some ideas.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
kipsate
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· Score: 1
Sigh.
archive the message for later retrieval.
Don't know what IM client you used, but I use Trillian, and it does archive things for me.
So you want to use an archived chat session to use as document to refer back to. Good luck. Chat sessions have less structure and are much more unreadable than a carefully written e-mail. I prefer someone's comments in a well written e-mail over a chat session, thank you very much.
OK, I have a little exercise for you. Read the following out loud on th ephone, and imagine someone on th other end trying to transpose this back into text:
for(int index = 0; index < list.length; index ++) {
x &= ((Integer)list.get(index)) << index;
}
Don't be foolish. You would send the code snippet by e-mail, as I already stated. Then discuss over the phone. Much faster than having to type everything.
And what of presence? Do you have some way of known if the person you immediately need is available on the other end?
Another non-argument. With IM, you can't be sure either. Sure, IM has features that show someone being away if he's idle for a certain period, typically 10 minutes (I think 10 minutes is a reasonable setting for most people). You can not be sure if a person is available, because it only shows a status equivalent to being "away" after this idle period. Unless ofcourse a person uses the "away" facility of his IM (showing he's not at his computer at the moment). But my experience is that most people don't bother to explicitly click the "away" button. In short, don't tell me that everyone that is listed as on-line, is also really at his computer. In many cases the person is not. Just as with the phone. A benefit of using the phone is that you get someone on the phone (a co-worker, or the reception) who can most often tell you where the person that you are trying to reach is, and how long it will take him to get back. It is very useful to find out that the person you are looking for is in a meeting for the next 3 hours.
In e-mail there is an elegant way of initiating contact send a short e-mail, subject "call me" and go on with something else.
Especially in combination of a tool like VNC
So you want people to mix-and-mach tools to try and come close to something that a new paradigm, IM, does perfectly well?
I didn't know you could look at someone elses screen and take over mouse and keyboard with IM. This is news to me. Seriously, in some cases it can be a great help, for instance when configuring settings or showing how to use a certain feature in a program. Nothing beats it.
Within weeks, the IT guys were chatting for hours per day with the girls in the office
And they never did this with the phone?
No. They don't dare. The stupid things they are conversating about, the stupid jokes they make with IM, they won't do that out loud. And it would attract too much attention. It would be all too obvious from the conversation that they were chit-chatting and keeping someone from doing their work.
Or send each other e-mails?
Yes, happens. But much less. It's simply not as much fun, I guess.
IM just made it so convenient that they started doing something they had so little drive to do before IM lowered the hurdle?
Yes. It is exactly as you state. IM lowered the hurdle, just as IM is lowering the hurdle for so many young people to contact and communicate to others. Save from behind the screen and keyboard, people dare alot more than in e-mail, real life or over the phone. This is the main reason why IM is such a success, IMO. The main reason. Main. Not only.
Then you start talking about communication costs and so on. This is all irrelevant, phone costs are not significant compared to most companies overall costs. And if productivity is hurt, as in my experience it clearly is, then this gets expensive really quickly.
Then you mention some esoteric cases in which IM is a wonderful tool. Well, I have got news for you: most companies are different than the special cases you describe. Most are normal companies with offices spread over a region, and they may or may not be connected by a WAN.
-- My karma ran over your dogma
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
spacefrog
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· Score: 3, Insightful
I use IM constantly in a business environment and have found it to be a major productivity tool.
The fact that your tech guys were using it to get pootang is not a valid argument. That is an HR problem. They could have been spending hours a day e-mailing, phoning or screwing in the broom closet, too. That is like cutting off all internet access because some PHB wanker is surfing for porn.
I use it to communicate with the person who sits five feet across the room from me. It is much less interrupting than a voice conversation, it doesn't matter if he is on the phone, if I have my headphones on, or if I am working from home, or he is working from home, etc. It just works.
We use it to communicate with customers. Much faster turn-around than e-mail. MUCH easier than trying to get everyone on the phone. MUCH quicker than picking up the phone, dialing the number, figuring out their extension, and then getting voicemail.
Much of my communication involves URL's, GUID's, SQL statements, e-mail addresses, large numbers (surrogate database keys), etc. I could not imagine trying to read a GUID or an 80 character URL over the phone and actually getting it right.
You say use the phone? Ugh... Even with a headset, phones are just a pain in the butt. Almost all of my two-five minute phone calls have been replaced with 20-60 second IM sessions. That means I can get back to work and am more productive.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Kintanon
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· Score: 2
My phone doesn't log conversations. That pretty much is the kicker for me.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Ultra+Magnus
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· Score: 1
We just started using IM with our helpdesk folk. And I must say..it is one of the best things ever. Because when people are typing out a message, they actually have to think how to explain their situation, instead of saying "its broke". This usually leads to more descriptive problems and its much easier to fix.
IM is also good for multitasking. If I want to ask my co-worker a question, but have a million other things I can be doing, instead of dropping everything, picking up the phone, looking up his number (big companies its impossible to remember everybody's number) calling him, patiently waiting for him to pick up, going through the formalities of saying "hello, this is {...}", explaining the problem, and in the end having him say "Why don't you send me an email". Good grief, with IM I can immediately see if he's there, ask him a direct and simple question, and pretty soon an answer comes back.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I prefer IRC.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
extrasolar
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· Score: 2
"I don't know why everyone thinks IM is so teenagers can ask each for age/sex/location checks."
Thats because 90% of everyone using IM are teenagers wasting time often checking age/sex/location with each other.
"Don't chuck out the whole medium just because you've found one malignant thing growing in it."
You're right. But most IM clients are designed to waste your time. I'm talking about the strange cutesy toys. I'm talking about the huge lack of security many of them offer. Someone did something with my yahoo account, I haven't been able to log back in since.
Here's some things I'd like to see for IM to be used for Real Work. I'd like to see collaborative editing. Letting two or more people edit a document in real time while discussing the editions. You are talking about coding. It would be great if the IM clients could support more programming editing features, or at least hook into emacs (or your editor de joure).
But honestly, do you see any of the above happening? Its not that IM can't be used for real work. Its just hardly anyone does. And that decides upon the class of features that gets put into the program.
Also, does anyone know what picture ++) turns into in yahoo messenger from the coding example I am replying to?
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You've obviously never had to play phone tage. Sheesh.
And your "point" about VNC is just nonsense. Sure, it can be a great tool but it has nothing what-so-ever to do with the topic at hand.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I've found that IM is great for those questions that don't need to be answered. Real productivity stems from knowing where to find the answers as quickly as possible. So you come across a problem, you know its not intractable, but you also know the person with the answer. You send out an IM, and you move ahead to solve the problem on your own. If the co-worker answers, he answers, if not, you're already on your own way. Sure you could phone him, or email him, but its a question of latency. If you're interested in low latency responses to questions with little overhead, i.e., you don't need to describe the problem with a dissertation, then IM is good. Yes, you could call them, but phone calls are alot more invasive, and annoying, especially if the answer precipitates more questions and you find yourself needing to call them back, or keep them on the phone for an extended period of time.
As professional developer, typing is hardly an issue. Also, there is this great new technology called cut and paste which makes communcating code snippets fairly trivial. Not to mention I get so few phone calls that I'm conditioned to check my messages only once every few weeks. IM or emailing me is a sure thing, calling me isn't.
"You gotta be smarter than the door knob". If you, and the people you work with, can't figure out how to leverage IM in the work environment as tool to enhance productivity its hardly an indictment of IM.
Re:IM in companies: a bad idea
by
Reziac
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· Score: 2
I agree for the most part (phone is better if you need instant response in a business setting). But..
I haven't used other clients, but I like AIM -- small, well-behaved, and not too bad for security as such things go (even AOL does some things right:) I've found AIM useful for "conference calls" for projects with friends, where none of us wants to ring up a long distance bill and where it's useful to have a record of what ideas we tossed around. I can see how in *some* business settings, such as where creative ideas are being generated at high speed, it could be equally useful.
The tabbed conversation window should be enough incentive to wait for a stable release of this program on Windows. Other than that, trillian or AIM+ pretty much keep me happy.
Tabbed windows are godsend. I hate it when I have to have several windows open. It clutters the desktop and gets pretty annoying.
all the times Trillian has been unable to run AIM, GAIM seems to work for me. On the other hand, I have never had consistant results using GAIM's ICQ plugin. (sometimes people hear me, sometimes not) I have found no resources noting this, and the latest version of trillian lets me use AOL again.. so Trillian it is, until somebody tells me what's wrong with gaim.
-- -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
all the times Trillian has been unable to run AIM, GAIM seems to work for me.
Hmmmm, so this story has a downside. Now that GAIM is available for Windows, it may gain enough userbase to show up on AOL's radar, and the two of them will subsequently have the same arms race we've seen with Trillian.
There's something to be said for a small userbases, whether it be running Apache+OpenSSL on non-i386 Linux, or GAIM on non-Windows....
-- "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
Yeah, but is it possible to easily switch between tabs using the keyboard? The only way I've been able to do so is by using tab/shift tab. And frankly, that's just pathetic compared to Adium's command-left/command-right switching between tabs. If someone knows a better way to do this in Gaim, please speak up.
Are you slightly crazy? Why do you want per-app specific tabs? I prefer using one of the many window managers with tabs. I use Ion but I recommend fluxbox or pwm (because Ion is... different).
I used to run tabbed mozilla within Ion but last month I went back in prefs and removed all tabbed browsing because I'd rather use Ions tabs.
Just a quick note, if someone else hasn't already pointed this out. Trillian (both "free" and "pro" versions) does support tabbed conversation, you can attach one or more windows to a particular named container. And you have have multiple containers. I find this to be a very useful feature.
We're talking about Windows here. BB4Win doesn't have fluxbox tabs yet.
Re:Best Feature.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
No, Gaim was never sponsored by AOL. For the longest time all it could use reliablily with the TOC protocol, which is open to everyone (even though AOL did enjoy changing it randomly). AOL went after Gaim because it has "aim" in the product name. Ironically, the Gaim folk beat AOL back by raising some money, and now one of the most frequently heard remarks about Gaim is, "Well, it can only do AIM!" Because they raised all that money to defend their name they are obligated to keep it rather than changing it to something that reflects its true abilities. Ah well.
There's several Win32 programs that already have the tabbed IMs feature, the best being Extreme Messenger. It will also log your conversations in HTML format.
oh and it also hides the ads on the AOL AIM client.
> If I remember correctly AOL even sicced their
> pack of lawyers on the gaim project for
> trademark violations or something of that sort.
You are thinking of AIMster I believe.
Hope you've got an always-on connection because GAIM has never supported reconnecting, nor staying the the background until a connection is made. On Unix, there's no real alternative, but on Windows, all of them can...
yes gaim does support reconnecting. just load the autorecon plugin that comes with gaim. anyone who has ever asked about this knows about its existance.
No, not really. With the plugin loaded the following happens:
When you start GAIM (without a connection) it will pop-up the sign-on window. The user must leave the window up until they connect, then must manually intervene to get GAIM to log-on.
When you are logged-on but lose your connection, GAIM will not change a bit. You will see a list of users that were logged-on, and can even send messages (but they won't go through) That's how it works with autorecon... You're better off without it. At least without it you'll know when your messages aren't getting through.
I have the same problem (you're not notified when you're kicked off AIM) also on FreeBSD 4.6, maybe the bug is FreeBSD-specific? I haven't used GAIM on anything but FreeBSD and have always had the same problems.
-- "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
If the bug is FreeBSD specific, then it just goes to show that the programmers aren't making portable & bug-free software.
I wasn't really looking for it, but I believe the same problem exists on OpenBSD. I recall that autorecon never worked, I assume it was the same problem. Maybe BSD specific then? Sounds about right. Plenty of programmers now are making Linux-only software just because they don't care about anything else.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I've done some further testing, and GAIM says I have been disconnected, several minutes after I signed on with the same screenname on another computer. I suppose it has to do with BSD's timing as compared to Linux (although I set my HZ to 2000) this should be filed in a bug report.
And I share your feelings against Linux-only software. It seems as if there's a whole generation of coders, aimed at writing Unix software for Linux and nothing else. Fortunately however, the last geneation is still around, among the coders in stable projects such as X Windows, Gimp, XMMS and so on. Mplayer is a particularly good example of the "new" generation of hothead Linux coders, and I'm not the only one who noticed it:
Q: I compiled MPlayer with libdvdcss/libdivxdecore support, but when I try to start it, it says: error while loading shared libraries: lib*.so.0: cannot load shared object file: No such file or directory
I checked the file and it is there in/usr/local/lib.
A: What are you doing on Linux? Can't you install a library? Why do we get these questions? It's not MPlayer specific at all! Add/usr/local/lib to/etc/ld.so.conf and run ldconfig. Or install it to/usr/lib, because if you can't solve the/usr/local problem, you are careless enough to do such things.
Perhaps instead of taking the time to flame the person asking the question, the smart aleck could have simply answered the question graciously, then spent the time saved by skipping the flames fixing bugs in the installation script.
Eventually I negotiated my way through the installation minefield created by the agonizing installation and poor design. I stepped through it one gotcha at a time. I won't bore you with a tedious play-by-play, but I will mention that I had more bite marks than I would have if I had napped in a fire ant mound.
Sad how these bright minds have come to only ridicule the average user instead of using their skills for good, isn't it.
-- "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
It is very hard not to commit the occasional linux-ism when all your developers use linux. It further doesn't help that people just assume the software is bad and never bother to report the bug untill some time later when the project hits/. We are in touch with exactly ONE person who uses freebsd, I'll have him test this. hopefully we will be able to get a fix.
Trillian has also released their "next-generation" IM client, Trillian Pro. Luckily (for me at least), those of us who have contributed at least one dollar in the past can get it for free, and those who didn't must pay $25 for it.
25 bucks is a lot of money for an IM client, even if it can resequence my DNA while I'm idle.
I like how the page has a giant "slashdot" buddy group, with a "wired" link below it... now correct me if I'm wrong, but that plus sign next to the slashdot means that the list is already expanded, indicating that he has no slashdot friends at all!:(
actually, i like trillian. i live in the same office as a call center, and since they are all windows, they use trillian, and i use gaim and that irc client with the vulgar name. its great cause the call center can use the irc feature to access our private ircd and swap confidential info, and they need but one client to do it. in fact it looks like they're one up on me and my layout! i'll randomly find the irc-im plugin that is stable, but until that day...
-- slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
25 bucks is a lot of money for an IM client, even if it can resequence my DNA while I'm idle.
I agree. I'm glad I donated $5 a couple months ago. Also, they're only accepting money for Trillian through paypal now, so if I hadn't donated earlier I'd have to wait for them to accept checks or credit, as I refuse to get a paypal account.
And generally in Windows the plus sign means the list is hidden--click on it to expand, and a minus sign means the list is shown, and clicking it will hide the list. It's similar to the restory/maximize button next to the X in Windows programs.
Re:Trillian Pro v1.0
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
One of the features that comes with the new version of Trillian Pro is to read RDF news feeds, such as those provided by Slashdot, so it'll pop up with the latest news items. And the minus sign means its expanded, not the plus sign:)
Trillian 0.74 continues to be free, it's lacking in some of the pro features like plugins but hey, I managed to get by with 4 other versions of Trillian without the plugins.
It may not be Open Source, but it's the next best thing. Free.
-- "For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
Re:Trillian Pro v1.0
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
The top part with Wired and Slashdot is a NEWS plugin. Trillian Pro supports plugins, kinda like winamp. U can even roll your own if you feel the need:)
I like how the page has a giant "slashdot" buddy group, with a "wired" link below it... That is the news plugin which allows you to add rss feeds the contents of which are displayed with links to the full stories.
Re:Trillian Pro v1.0
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Being $free is USELESS if you cannot get the source. I'd much rather pay for software that is properly supported by a corporation if I cannot get something similar that is open source.
If you think the lack of encryption on these things makes them only good for hobbyist use...
Businesses use aim/icq/aol and whatnot all the time, officially or unofficially. Just like they use cleartext email, faxes, and phone calls.
Somethign like this, if it works well, can very well end up on desktops in companies.
Depends on the situation.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
When I'm dealing with several issues at once, it's much easier for me to work with several IM windows open, so I can see the thread of conversation and not miss things than it is to stay on the phone constnantly in the office and write notes.
Some of us are not at our desk by the phone all day, but ARE at our desk frequently. Instant messaging helps with this as well.
If your staff stops working as soon as they have a distraction like IM.. you have both communication problems in the company and morale issues with your workers. Are they not allowed to talk normally?
I'd say it didn't work out for you, but I guarantee it works out for others.
VNC is not a viable alternative for office messaging. Maybe it's an alternative for mr IT guy to fix some computer on the next floor, but it's hardly relevant here.
attn headline author/editor
by
kevin+lyda
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· Score: 5, Funny
you have a story about gaim for windows and the headline you come up with (or allow through) is "gaim for windows." lame.
Re:attn headline author/editor
by
sidesh0w
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· Score: 1
yeah, I guess it wasn't very creative, but when I saw the story pop up on GAIM news, I just wanted to be the first person to submit this to slashdot. The story itself seemed pretty exciting. I mean, I had to download the package myself before I belived it -- a windows port used to be a joke in the FAQ! (I guess that's what I get for ignoring GAIM development all summer)
So yes, in retrospect, it would have been more in keeping with slashdot tradition to spend less time verifying the story and more time thinking up a witty headline, but hey, this was my first accepted submission, so cut me some slack:)
Well I just tried it and to say it's crash happy is an understatement. I use gaim in linux and it's great, but for windows I think I'll stick with trillian.
Re:Voice Over IP support
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Insightful
Does anyone know if GAIM is going to support Voice Over IP? IMHO that's the killer app for any IM platform.
Mom? Is that you? I told you that Yahoo Instant Messenger client was a piece of junk. Don't blame me that the audio cuts out. Hell, it's not enough you people can type instant messages to each other, but now it has to double as a phone too? How about using an application that was designed from the ground up to do voice over IP instead of this voice chat shit hacked into an IM client?
How about using an application that was designed from the ground up to do voice over IP instead of this voice chat shit hacked into an IM client?
Actually, the IM usually serves purely as a broker or VoIP directory if you will. A specialized VoIP can be spawned once the information is worked out in the IM. If your mom gets dropouts or otherwise shitty performance it's probably just her shitty Internet connection. Get her a decent broadband uplink.
-adnans
-- "In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
Some Trillian users express usability concerns
by
Uksi
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Everything is plugin...so nothing but AIM/ICQ out of the box.
I was dropped AT LEAST 5 TIMES in 5 minutes
No copy/paste in chat windows (CTRL=C brings up "Colors")
No right-clicks.
No SecureIM.
Can't click to follow links.
COMPLETELY NON-Intuitive interface
So I don't agree with the "no plugins" argument (just go and download the darn things), but the rest are serious problems.
However, it's alpha! Why treat an alpha release like the final product? So, another poster said:
I did make certain to be distinct in saying WinGAIM and not GAIM. I've not used GAIM and from what I've heard and read, it's kick-ass.
I know *for a fact* that the point in releasing their "alpha" 3 days after the Trillian release was to steal thunder. I also know that seanegan is a frequent guest in one of the Trillian channels, where he openly recruits people to try his software.
Since there is plenty of "Trillian-bashing" going on in Trillian forums, I figured I'd point out that if anyone thinks WinGAIM is a viable alternative, they'll be extremely disappointed.
And I know....it's alpha. But if you're gonna run with the big dogs, you've got to be able to piss in the tall grass.
So any Windows Trillian or AOL AIM users who have tried WinGAIM and have experiences to post?
Stupid Windows lusers. They obviously don't know that Linux applications are inherently superior in all ways.
How many of those lusers have read the source code for Trillian? No? Then say hi to all the secret closed-source spyware that Trillian bundles. Without access to the source, I assume that everything is spyware.
I have used Gaim on Linux and Trillian on Windows for ages. Saw the WinGaim release, thought (as I'm sure many others did) "Finally, freedom from the proprietary-ness of Trillian."
Upon trying WinGaum, however, I discovered that it was infinitly inferior to the Linux version of Gaim. No themability, much crashing, lack of proper server-side buddy saving, and all manner of Bad Things. Very promising, and hopefully with time it will become as good as the Linux version, but until then its back to Trillian Pro.
What is it about talented code hackers and their complete ineptitude at developing user interfaces?
Gnucleus is one of the better file sharing programs for windows with possibly the worst user interface ever. The icons are obscure and meaningless. The layout is completely non-intuitive. Doing things that require 1 click in other file sharing apps can require multiple clicks though an obscure and ugly user interface.
What gives?
Re:Some Trillian users express usability concerns
by
Sunnan
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· Score: 1
Yeah, you just have to load them.
(I had to look in the FAQ for that today, I wanted to try the IRC-plugin. It was very nice, though.)
Electrical engineers (working on radios) don't design the radios: they design the electronics. An industrial designer designs the radio. Both electrical engineer and industrial designer are quite apt at their job and come together to design software.
Software engineers typically design their software's interfaces, as well as the software's internals. There are usually no user interaction designers involved. That's a problem and what you described about gnucleus is just one example. The software engineer, I bet, does his job quite well, but he just doesn't have the knowledge and experience to develop sensible interfaces.
On another thought, I do remember that one radio I had... I swear an engineer designed it.
and ICQ, and TOC AIM, and OSCAR AIM, and a bunch of other protocols that I haven't heard of.
Jabber is a protocol, not a client, and cannot be compared with GAIM for that reason.
-- You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Re:GAIM supports jabber!
by
RatFink100
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· Score: 2
Jabber is a protocol, not a client
Jabber is both a client and a protocol. It's an IM client which supports multiple protocols including its own.
Re:GAIM supports jabber!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
It's also a dessert topping and a floor wax.
Re:GAIM supports jabber!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
That is so true.
Re:Who is Jesus?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Who cares?
Great stuff..
by
unorthod0x
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I switched to gaim a long while ago (when I switched my primary workstation to run Linux), after having tried out many other alternatives it seemed like the only one that worked! Of course it doesn't work perfectly, often I'll have people online but not showing up as being so, the lack of file transfer through most conduits is annoying (but, in all honesty, welcome:), real-time multi-user chat just plain ain't there. My adoption of gaim despite all of the above is testament to the fact that there is an acute niche for this kind of software.. Having a Windows version is welcome news; for the rare moments where I have to boot in to Windows it'll be handy not to have to lose touch with everyone.
I've had nothing but problems with gaim. Maybe I have too many people on my lists, but...
whenever I log in using gaim, all my lists get completely screwed up. For every list that exists, a new list is created with the name and then a number after it. The people that used to be in the single group are now spread between the two groups. Sometimes "buddies" disappear all together.
No, not a big fan of gaim. Just screws everything up.
Have you tried deleting your ~/.gaim directory and starting over from scratch? Be sure ot backup your logs and buddy list first though. I've never had any kind of problem like that with Gaim.
you sound like oyu are, or have last used, gaim 0.54 or 0.53. the gaim faq at http://gaim.sf.net/faq.php describes what to do with the corrupted buddy lists these versions caused right after we added server side list support. in current versions of gaim, the only issues are that the local list (we don't trust the servers) re-adding buddies deleted by other clients, and the bug werein we read the groups from the server in a different order from how winaim does it.
Re:In an ideal world (on crack and other goodies)
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I agree, encrypted faxes are hell in a hand basket. Nothing compares to five pages of faxed white noise. I once sent my grandma a page of white
noise and she almost creamed her britches.
Luckily, a little gnome in my side-yard started
eye-humping the web, starting with http://slashdot.org, and emailed the results to me.
If I could program a fax to dial itself and
send a copy of a monkey to itself, I would
be gratified, even if my whatnot was clear
and free of that damn weed.
I often encrypt my data. Other times, I choose
to encrypt the data inside my data. When times
get rough, I program my toilet to encrypt my
fun sauce. I really don't want my personal rocket launches to reach the all mighty Linus,
so my outhouse is not equiped with gcc or even
a vi "alternative". Yes I run Debian.
GAIM was nice to have around on Unix. Too bad the presence of a widely-available Win32 version will force AOL to block it once and for all, in order to maintain their legal position against opening their system up to Microsoft.
Re:So long, GAIM
by
garcia
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
actually I was hoping that the Windows alternative would kinda force AOL to adopt the GAIM software as its own instead of the shit it uses now.
Re:So long, GAIM
by
L.Schierer
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· Score: 2, Informative
BTDN. AOL tried to block libfaim, the library gaim uses for OSCAR(aim/icq) support last year in May and June. Each block attempt worked for a day or so at most. By the time they gave up, some winaim users were having trouble connecting because Gaim was mimicing winaim so closely packet-wise the server was having false positives. So we aren't really worried that AOL would have better luck this time around.
Yah dude, I've been waiting for that for I don't know how long.
The great thing about Slashdot
by
Buttercup
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
Is that we get to find out that Jeff "Hemos" Bates still doesn't care for instant messaging clients, but that he thinks GAIM is a sweet program.
Yes, that's a contradiction. No, we don't give a flying shit what Jeff "Hemos" Bates thinks. What the fuck is wrong with this world?
-- Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
Re:The great thing about Slashdot
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
But we are supposed to care what Michael "Buttercup" Peck has to say? Truly, What the fuck is wrong with this world?
What's so good about AIM, anyway?
by
The+Fanta+Menace
·
· Score: 1
While typically I keep my real-time messaging to IRC, I do use ICQ (well, licq) to talk to one or two non-tech people who can't cope with IRC. I've tried using AIM a couple of times, but I really didn't like it - it seemed to have fewer features than I was used to in ICQ.
So, other than the fact that AIM has many more users than ICQ, what is the advantage of using it instead?
-- --
Even if a god did exist, why the fsck should I worship it?
Re:What's so good about AIM, anyway?
by
MenTaLguY
·
· Score: 2
So, other than the fact that AIM has many more users than ICQ, what is the advantage of using it instead?
That's pretty much it. Hooray for network effects.
--
DNA just wants to be free...
Re:What's so good about AIM, anyway?
by
Muddle
·
· Score: 1
Personally I'd rather have the pluggin ability of ICQ than use AIM. I'm running Bit Defender for ICQ, Top Secret Messenger, ICQ Plus with a skin called Lunar Base. I've set all these to run when ICQ starts using the Launch List. There are also PGP plugins and a whole host of others to configure ICQ the way you want it, even crack's to remove the Adverts. AIM has none of this with the exception of cracks to remove the adverts.
If they would only accept patches
by
Captain+Morgan
·
· Score: 1
to Gaim. The patch tracker has patches from 6-8 months ago that haven't been processed/removed yet.
Re:If they would only accept patches
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Most of those patches are random plugins, so don't need to be applied.
I'll add to Xawen's comment the fact that it's distributed as an x86 binary, and as such, running it on anything but an x86 processor (i.e. through the Bochs emulator) is unbearably slow.
Re:(meta) How is it offtopic?
by
neroz
·
· Score: 1
I don't know if I should bother replying to this. "No other apps were mentioned by the story."
How simple do you want it?
Re:(meta) How is it offtopic?
by
yerricde
·
· Score: 1
In Slashdot discussions, it is generally considered on-topic to compare and contrast the application under discussion to existing applications that do much the same thing. Thus, the discussions about feature completeness of OpenOffice.org vs. Microsoft Office whenever a new release of OOo is announced. Thus, the comparisons to other multisystem IM clients such as Trillian. Thus, any comparison of KDE or GNOME to the Windows or Mac OS X desktop.
Re:(meta) How is it offtopic?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I don't know if I should bother replying to this.
Well, you did. So take that stick out of your ass and fuck off, asshole.
Re:(meta) How is it offtopic?
by
neroz
·
· Score: 1
Just because it is a trend, doesn't mean it's right. I read the story and think: "Cool, Gaim has been ported." So I go to see what people are saying about it, and 90% (non-literal) of the posts are saying something about [random IM project/product/company not related to the GAIM port, or how stable it is].
What "System resources" means
by
yerricde
·
· Score: 2
Yes, but take a look at your system resources and see how much memory your trillian process is using, it's bloated.
"System resources" on Windows, especially when measured in percentage, most often refers to a relic of the Windows 3.1 architecture that gave the user.exe and gdi.exe programs 64 KB of heap each. All programs running on a Windows 9x system share that 64 KB user.exe heap and that 64 KB of gdi.exe heap, no matter how much RAM you have.
On the other hand, Windows NT 3.x, Windows NT 4, Windows 2000, and Windows XP give Win32 apps a user and gdi heap as big as available RAM and run Windows 3.1 applications in a virtual machine with its own 64 KB heaps.
Window manager? On Windows?
by
yerricde
·
· Score: 1
I prefer using one of the many window managers with tabs.
I'd guess that 99.96% of Windows users* use the window manager that comes with Windows. In addition, tabs use less GDI.exe "system resources" on Windows 9x than separate windows do.
People, people, file send/receive please, how does gaim expect to compete in the real world if it can't stand out with the big guys? I love gaim on linux, but file send/receive is too important for me, and since i use msn most of the time, i have switched for alvaro's msn, while lacking every cool feature that gaim has, you get file send/receive.
I use AIM 4.8.2790 with AIM+ 2.2.1. AIM+ is a program that hacks AIM to remove ads, add history, and allow multiple copies of AIM open at a time (called "cloning"). Tabbed IMing is planned in the next version. AIM+ is made by Big-O Software.
NOTE: AIM+ will not work with AIM 5.x, if you've already upgraded you will have to find an installer for AIM v4.8.2790 (the highest 4.x version).
The GAIM webpage claims that they have never been the target of a deliberate blocking attempt by AOL. They say that the intermitted connection problems to OSCAR last summer were due to AOL's attempts to block MSN from connecting to the AIM network, which blocked GAIM as collateral damage, but were fairly easy to work around since they weren't specifically targetted at GAIM.
So if they actually did target GAIM, they might have more success.
Correct. we weren't the target: jabber was. Jabber's aim transport uses the same libfaim libary gaim uses. libfaim's lead developer at the time, mid, and ours at the time, eric, together worked past the blocks.
but that's not the standard Windows keybinding
by
Trepidity
·
· Score: 2
That's the standard DOS keybinding. It still works in most Windows programs as a long-held-over compatibility thing, but it's not the one most people use or expect.
Re:but that's not the standard Windows keybinding
by
mlippert
·
· Score: 1
Actually it that keybinding did not come from DOS, it came from MS Windows. At some point (I don't remember when) MS changed from specifying ctrl-ins, shift-del and shift-ins to ctrl-c, ctrl-x and ctrl-v which were basically the Mac key bindings. I think this happened somewhere between Windows 3.0 and Windows 95.
In many ways this change made sense since the new bindings are easier for right-handed users. However the old key bindings are much easier for left-handed users (and as one of those users I'm glad they are still supported in almost all applications, and it annoys me a lot when they aren't!)
To some extent that also goes for alt-BS and alt-ins for undo and redo, although those alternates aren't supported nearly as often, as the ones for cut, copy and paste.
Mike
My first thought was... hmm.. wonder if I can compile GEP for WinGAIM. I use Trillian frequently because of the pseudo-SecureIM they have and many friends use it (it was standard use at my last company). Of course I spent a couple of days last week dissecting the Trillian SecureIM packets in hopes of implementing gaim support for it (got all but the hardwired prime... which I have some guesses at).
Anyways, if I can get GEP to build I'll abandon that and have my friends switch... especially since Trillian has become minor nagware since the 0.74 release. Of course the current GEP in sourceforge needs about 20 lines of bogus code commented out to work... ironically WinGAIM file dialog code doesn't work and I can't see the plugins directory to load the other modules (have to get the source and patch that).
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gep You have to pull it down out of CVS and build it yourself after applying this patch that simply removes the bogus code that tries to make a read-only text field look grey (of course something you could never to with Trillian)... nevermind the short patch didn't pass the slashdot junk filter. Just comment out everything in gep.c from lines 306 through 326.
Gaim is fine - Jabber is better
by
Daath
·
· Score: 2
I hear that Gaim speaks jabber - but jabber speaks AIM as well as a bunch of other protocols. I've got a jabber server running, I use ICQv7 protocol, MSN and Jabber - I had Yahoo and AIM installed too but none of my (few) users used it, so I disabled it - less to maintain;)
Anyway I haven't used anything else in more than a year!
Oh yeah and a nice feature of Jabber/ICQv7 is that you can add any mobile phone to your buddy list - and send SMS messages from the IM:) (I know it's ICQ but this is simpler!)
For the client side I use Psi - A VERY cool client - available for BOTH Linux and Windows! It's really nice IM client - granted it does miss a few Jabber features such as chatrooms etc... But I never use that - I only use normal IM chat messages...
--
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
Re:Gaim is fine - Jabber is better
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Wow. How idiotic can you possibly be? Jabber is a protocol. Gaim can use that protocol.
Oh and Psi can use SSL - I use it!
by
Daath
·
· Score: 2
Oh and Psi can use SSL - I use it! It's quite cool;)
--
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
I've been using Trillian for quite some time now, and I've found it to be very worthwhile. It's very stable, works with every popular service, and since I don't do mIRC programming/scripting, it works just fine for IRC, too.
Anyone who donated to Trillian gets a free copy of Trillian Pro, as a bonus...:)
Trillian is proprietary, so use Gaim instead.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
From what I can see, it appears Trillian is proprietary software. Therefore I have the same reservations I have with any other proprietary software. One such reservation being that I wouldn't trust Trillian to encrypt my conversations so that only the parties I intend to talk to can decrypt it. I prefer to have the community of hackers working for me which is why I prefer Free Software.
Freedom is not addressed by Open Source
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
As far as Win32 IM solutions go, this is better than Trillian...how? The answer: "It's open source!" isn't valid. While it may become better in time, right now Trillian is the flat out king of Win32 IM solutions in terms of versatility and usability.
Your critique is right-on; it is a natural consequence of following the Open Source movement. If all you value are the practical ends of a program (i.e., more features, better features, versatility, usability) you will use whatever meets those needs including using proprietary software. The FSF has an essay which lays out this argument quite well. This is why it is important to understand the difference between the Open Source movement and the Free Software movement.
I value my software freedom and therefore I recognize that Trillian, like any other proprietary software, can not help me retain my software freedom. When the community retains their software freedom they can write the software which will meet practical needs; we are dependant on ourselves. If we sacrifice our freedom we become dependant on a proprietor. Therefore I prefer Free Software and I will not use Trillian.
Uh, gvim != gtk+ app on windows. gvim= graphical vim, not gtk+ vim.
The native windows gvim predated the first gvim for linux, which used xlib widgets. The gtk+ gvim first appreared in 1999, and kvim in 2002.
Won't be a windows port
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Since QT isn't free for developers on Windows. Or at least it isn't yet - I guess there it might not be too hard to port the GPL version to Win32 if one wanted. But I'm sure the kopete folks will not be paying for a QT license or porting QT anytime soon.
This is the one benefit of GTK, even if QT seems to be quicker to develop with.
Re:Won't be a windows port
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I believe it's free for non-commercial developers
.gtkrc
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Has anyone gotten a decent.gtkrc to work with WinGaim? If so please share.
While people are talking about Trillian... on more than one occasion it ate my contact lists for dinner, never to return. And the same with many others. Hooray.
-- -Drache Kubisuro
Re:The Trillian Black Hole
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
This was my problem also. On more then one occasion I lost my contact lists. Luckily I had exported my contact lists on my iBook using the "offical" clients so I had backups. Also, the fact that Trillian merges your contact list when you use multiple names on one protocol got old REAL quick. No sooner did I decide to bite the bullet and go back to multiple IM clients, I see this story! When I first started using Linux about 2 years ago, I tried both Gaim and Everybuddy. I grew to like Gaim and went in search for a Win32 version for when I HAD to use Windoze. Well, after 2 years it is finally here.
I Know!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Jesus is the Latino who works at the taco stand. Do I win anything?
Haw haw!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Not everybody should know what I'm saying to my girlfriend.
If you're like me, you're probably telling your girlfriend about how you got a high score on Counterstrike. Women love that! Its a sign of power and virility.
I bet...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You masturbate to filthy German scat porn, and want to date a she-male. I can tell my your obsessive need to be in control. Life will be easier for you once you learn to relax. And she-males will find you more desirable, too!
I don't think GAIM for Windows is a good idea
by
overbored
·
· Score: 1, Interesting
Hey, I've been reading Slashdot for a long time, and this is my first post.
First off, I am not one who sticks to standard software just because they are popular, made by Microsoft/AOL Time Warner, etc. Neither do I use alternative software for that reason alone. I use whatever is most useful to me, and in this sense, I was never able to understand why people like programs like GAIM, Mozilla, Emacs, etc. on Windows.
I never really liked any of the multi-platform clients. I remember using GAIM briefly two years ago; I liked its logging and buddy pounce features. It sure kicked the crap out of AIM for Linux. Now I use AIM 4.8 with AIM+ (AIM+ users: don't upgrade to 5.0). AIM+ can make windows transparent, remove ads, etc., but I really find the logging and cloning features to be most useful.
I downloaded GAIM for Windows yesterday, and I removed it today. It looks hideous (though I could care less), it's clumsy to use, it formats incorrectly (both IMs and profiles), the tabbed windows are useless (thanks to XP's window grouping), you can't Talk, you can't Play Games, you can't use the Add-Ins for AIM, you can't Get Files, you can't look up directory info (and yes, I use all these AIM features regularly), it does a god-awful job of "intelligently" merging contacts (and worse, these changes permanently alter your buddy list stored on AIM servers; I had to re-edit the buddy lists manually)...the list goes on.
And this is all just concerning its handling of AIM. Need I go on about its drawbacks on the other platforms? I think this one-night affair is best forgotten.
I have similar complaints against Trillian, Jabber, EveryBuddy, etc. (all of which I have used very, very patiently, on multiple occasions over the years). Now I know that GAIM is open-source, and if I wanted to, I can change it however I please, potentially making it the most kick-ass client ever. But I *don't* want to, and if the authors of GAIM couldn't make it any better than it is right now, then I sure as hell can't.
So, either I'm missing something huge here (and I sure hope I am, because I like AIM/OSCAR just about as much as the next guy), or the rebellious vocal minority has once again confounded "keeping an open mind" with "blind devotion to the alternatives." Until GAIM catches up, I'm sticking to AIM+.
whats the difference
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
What difference does it make if you use gaim or aim under windows? Sure gaim uses different and open libraries but it offers no extra functionality so why should I bother to change? Under linux I use gaim but under windows i use aim and I dont think switching is worth the time.
Anyone suggest a Command-Line IM tool?
by
RoundSparrow
·
· Score: 1
Anyone using IM as a way to get server alerts... like a pager?
Are there any decent cross-platform libraries to send messages?
People. WinGaim is ALPHA. That means it's less stable/robust/tested than even BETA which is less stable/robust/tested then a production release.
It can't be compared to Trillian or AIM or anything else because it's a pre-pre-pre-pre-release.
A comparison of gAIM for Linux to Trillian would be fair..but complaining about the ugliness of the interface is unreasonable--are you too stupid to realize that GUI issues are the biggest problem in a port?
Come on. There's a good three dozen posts here saying WinGaim is bad because it doesn't do this well. If you downloaded it expecting to use it then you were wrong in downloading it.
Doesn't everyone know that alpha releases aren't actually meant to be used in the RealWorld(tm)?
I'm working on a contract at Warner Music Group. Everyone there (at least IT) uses IM... and you know what??? IT WORKS.
Being able to communicate with people spread across different floors or even 100 feet away is very convenient. Phone calls require 100% communication and can't be done in parallel.
-- Evolution: love it or leave it
Did you even read his post?
by
Anthracks
·
· Score: 1
"Very promising, and hopefully with time it will become as good as the Linux version, but until then its back to Trillian Pro."
He says it looks good and knows it will get better, but until it is out of alpha, he will use Trillian. Why bash the guy for something he blatantly did not do? Quit trolling people.
-- Rock over London, Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: Breakfast of Champions.
I've found that Trillian will crash 100% of the time if you send an a Trillian user an embeded image from win32 GAIM. (The Insert IM Image button next to the smilies button.)
It sends: <IMG SRC="file://C:\96-16.jpg" ID="1" DATASIZE="239358">
I'm really not sure how this is supposed to work in the first place since it references a local file.
Why is slashcode removing my img html instead of just escaping the less than and greater than characters when submitting a post as plain text? But if I escape the first less than myself the ampersand in that entity is left along but the greater than at the end of the image element is escaped?
-- Phillip
GAIM is not just AIM
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
It's also (for example) Jabber, MSN and yes, IRC too
Slashdot Mirror
Now that the GTK+ Windows port has started to mature, this sort of thing is inevitable. The biggest obstacle to portability in ANSI C these days is usually your GUI layer. The rest of your portability problems - well, that's why we also have glib for Windows..
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
So, how's GAIM better than Jabber?
Garg
Garg
Alumnus, Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters
This is truly great. I also have used gaim for the past few years and have been increasingly dissatisfied with the Windows alternatives. Previosly I have had to content myself with Gaim running remotely through Cygwin and ssh.
;-).
At long last I will be able to use blaim (blowfish encrypted AIM) in windows. That is if I can figure out the compile options
Hopefully the development will stay active on this front.
One of the cool things is if both people use Trillian, they can communicate using SecureIM which encrypts their conversations.
I more like kopete which is a QT/KDE application and supports Jabber/Yahoo/MSN/Icq/AIM etc. Doesnt have a Win32 port but seems sexy :)
See http://kopete.kde.org/
Never learn by your mistakes, if you do you may never dare to try again
is there anything requiring aol to keep its servers open to apps like gaim? I mean, once gaim starts taking signifigant user-base away, AND if it refuses to do banners, then I think its a lost cause, because AOL could pull the plug. But, hopefully, the ratio of dorks to marketable people will stay low enough.
-- -- --
Help my mini cause: My journal
Do these IM clients sufficiently encrypt their data stream (at let's say 3DES strength) ?
Otherwise they ain't suitable for non hobbyist use.
And personally I won't use them in this case for personal chat. Not everybody should know what I'm saying to my girlfriend.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
I use Trillian - So should you!
This is good news if you look at it as a way to give windows ppl a chance to try free open sourced software. But I find it bad news as the more good free software ported to propietary platforms, the less open platforms will be needed.
------- The last Sig. got fired.
As far as Win32 IM solutions go, this is better than Trillian...how? The answer: "It's open source!" isn't valid. While it may become better in time, right now Trillian is the flat out king of Win32 IM solutions in terms of versatility and usability. I don't doubt that it's a fantastic (and it may very well be the best) IM solution on the Linux platform. Maybe in time, this will be important news to Win32 users, but right now it's just another program that isn't as good as others already available.
Id prefer this program being built for linux, rather tan gaim for win32. Its opensource, so why not?
i use gaim in *nix.
:)
the major problem is there is no file transfer support yet. im sure thats a reason windows users wouldn't bother with it.
it would be nicer if everyone used jabber... one protocol, one protocol. wouldnt the im world be such a nicer place?
This tip is for people who like more icq than aim, kde than gnome, qt than gtk. For a long time I was in search for a good icq clone for linux, tryied kicq, licq, kxicq, kopete and others. But this week I found sim-icq - http://sim-icq.sourceforge.net), it even have a windows port and a windowmaker applet. It's full of options, as most kde/linux programs. Really good, and I'm happy with it.
[ Slightly off-topic ]
I'm somewhat sceptic to Instant Messaging in companies. I've seen it fail at our company, where they insisted to try it out.
I see it like this: if you have a message for someone and you don't need an instant reply, e-mail is perfect. If you want to send code snippets, or need to transfer information that is somewhat complicated, use e-mail. It enables you to write down everything in a structured way and the receiver can archive the message for later retrieval.
If you want an instant reply, because you need to discuss something, USE THE PHONE. It is much faster than typing, no matter how fast you type. It is much more convenient, you can exchange information really quickly. Especially in combination of a tool like VNC, which enables you to see eachothers screen and take over mouse and keyboard remotely.
In our case there was another unfortunate side-effect of IMing. Within weeks, the IT guys were chatting for hours per day with the girls in the office. Some of them often had three chat sessions open simultaneously. Productivity dropped significantly.
IM silently died.
My karma ran over your dogma
The tabbed conversation window should be enough incentive to wait for a stable release of this program on Windows. Other than that, trillian or AIM+ pretty much keep me happy.
Tabbed windows are godsend. I hate it when I have to have several windows open. It clutters the desktop and gets pretty annoying.
Trillian has also released their "next-generation" IM client, Trillian Pro. Luckily (for me at least), those of us who have contributed at least one dollar in the past can get it for free, and those who didn't must pay $25 for it.
But in pratice, that's BS.
If you think the lack of encryption on these things makes them only good for hobbyist use...
Businesses use aim/icq/aol and whatnot all the time, officially or unofficially. Just like they use cleartext email, faxes, and phone calls.
Somethign like this, if it works well, can very well end up on desktops in companies.
When I'm dealing with several issues at once, it's much easier for me to work with several IM windows open, so I can see the thread of conversation and not miss things than it is to stay on the phone constnantly in the office and write notes.
Some of us are not at our desk by the phone all day, but ARE at our desk frequently. Instant messaging helps with this as well.
If your staff stops working as soon as they have a distraction like IM.. you have both communication problems in the company and morale issues with your workers. Are they not allowed to talk normally?
I'd say it didn't work out for you, but I guarantee it works out for others.
VNC is not a viable alternative for office messaging. Maybe it's an alternative for mr IT guy to fix some computer on the next floor, but it's hardly relevant here.
you have a story about gaim for windows and the headline you come up with (or allow through) is "gaim for windows." lame.
c'mon, this is easy: "windows got gaim."
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Free Mac Mini
Does anyone know if GAIM is going to support Voice Over IP? IMHO that's the killer app for any IM platform.
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
Quoting the original poster:
So I don't agree with the "no plugins" argument (just go and download the darn things), but the rest are serious problems.
However, it's alpha! Why treat an alpha release like the final product? So, another poster said:
So any Windows Trillian or AOL AIM users who have tried WinGAIM and have experiences to post?
So the Gaim is up through the Windows and into the users' fields? :)
but gave up on porting the socket code to winsock. I wish he has known of glib.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
and ICQ, and TOC AIM, and OSCAR AIM, and a bunch of other protocols that I haven't heard of.
Jabber is a protocol, not a client, and cannot be compared with GAIM for that reason.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Who cares?
I switched to gaim a long while ago (when I switched my primary workstation to run Linux), after having tried out many other alternatives it seemed like the only one that worked! Of course it doesn't work perfectly, often I'll have people online but not showing up as being so, the lack of file transfer through most conduits is annoying (but, in all honesty, welcome :), real-time multi-user chat just plain ain't there. My adoption of gaim despite all of the above is testament to the fact that there is an acute niche for this kind of software.. Having a Windows version is welcome news; for the rare moments where I have to boot in to Windows it'll be handy not to have to lose touch with everyone.
I've had nothing but problems with gaim. Maybe I have too many people on my lists, but...
whenever I log in using gaim, all my lists get completely screwed up. For every list that exists, a new list is created with the name and then a number after it. The people that used to be in the single group are now spread between the two groups. Sometimes "buddies" disappear all together.
No, not a big fan of gaim. Just screws everything up.
I agree, encrypted faxes are hell in a hand basket. Nothing compares to five pages of faxed white noise. I once sent my grandma a page of white noise and she almost creamed her britches. Luckily, a little gnome in my side-yard started eye-humping the web, starting with http://slashdot.org, and emailed the results to me. If I could program a fax to dial itself and send a copy of a monkey to itself, I would be gratified, even if my whatnot was clear and free of that damn weed. I often encrypt my data. Other times, I choose to encrypt the data inside my data. When times get rough, I program my toilet to encrypt my fun sauce. I really don't want my personal rocket launches to reach the all mighty Linus, so my outhouse is not equiped with gcc or even a vi "alternative". Yes I run Debian.
GAIM was nice to have around on Unix. Too bad the presence of a widely-available Win32 version will force AOL to block it once and for all, in order to maintain their legal position against opening their system up to Microsoft.
Who cares about the Windoze version...I just want the gtk2 version to come out.
Is that we get to find out that Jeff "Hemos" Bates still doesn't care for instant messaging clients, but that he thinks GAIM is a sweet program.
Yes, that's a contradiction. No, we don't give a flying shit what Jeff "Hemos" Bates thinks. What the fuck is wrong with this world?
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
While typically I keep my real-time messaging to IRC, I do use ICQ (well, licq) to talk to one or two non-tech people who can't cope with IRC. I've tried using AIM a couple of times, but I really didn't like it - it seemed to have fewer features than I was used to in ICQ.
So, other than the fact that AIM has many more users than ICQ, what is the advantage of using it instead?
-- Even if a god did exist, why the fsck should I worship it?
to Gaim. The patch tracker has patches from 6-8 months ago that haven't been processed/removed yet.
Now i can start searching for .gaimrc on Kazaa...
What's wrong with the AIM client for Linux?
I'll add to Xawen's comment the fact that it's distributed as an x86 binary, and as such, running it on anything but an x86 processor (i.e. through the Bochs emulator) is unbearably slow.
Will I retire or break 10K?
No, the story is clearly about GAIM being _ported_ to Windows.
Then how can the question "How is the newly released alpha of GAIM for Windows better than the existing Trillian application?" be off-topic?
bonus OFF!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Yes, but take a look at your system resources and see how much memory your trillian process is using, it's bloated.
"System resources" on Windows, especially when measured in percentage, most often refers to a relic of the Windows 3.1 architecture that gave the user.exe and gdi.exe programs 64 KB of heap each. All programs running on a Windows 9x system share that 64 KB user.exe heap and that 64 KB of gdi.exe heap, no matter how much RAM you have.
On the other hand, Windows NT 3.x, Windows NT 4, Windows 2000, and Windows XP give Win32 apps a user and gdi heap as big as available RAM and run Windows 3.1 applications in a virtual machine with its own 64 KB heaps.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Id prefer [Miranda, a free Win32 icq client,] being built for linux
Can't you do it yourself? Just link in winelib, which provides most Win32 API services.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I prefer using one of the many window managers with tabs.
I'd guess that 99.96% of Windows users* use the window manager that comes with Windows. In addition, tabs use less GDI.exe "system resources" on Windows 9x than separate windows do.
(83.6% of all statistics are made up.)
Will I retire or break 10K?
So does winGaim. When you open the plugins dialog box it just start at the right directory though
May contain traces of nut.
People, people, file send/receive please, how does gaim expect to compete in the real world if it can't stand out with the big guys? I love gaim on linux, but file send/receive is too important for me, and since i use msn most of the time, i have switched for alvaro's msn, while lacking every cool feature that gaim has, you get file send/receive.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
I use AIM 4.8.2790 with AIM+ 2.2.1. AIM+ is a program that hacks AIM to remove ads, add history, and allow multiple copies of AIM open at a time (called "cloning"). Tabbed IMing is planned in the next version. AIM+ is made by Big-O Software.
NOTE: AIM+ will not work with AIM 5.x, if you've already upgraded you will have to find an installer for AIM v4.8.2790 (the highest 4.x version).
Centralization breaks the internet.
The GAIM webpage claims that they have never been the target of a deliberate blocking attempt by AOL. They say that the intermitted connection problems to OSCAR last summer were due to AOL's attempts to block MSN from connecting to the AIM network, which blocked GAIM as collateral damage, but were fairly easy to work around since they weren't specifically targetted at GAIM.
So if they actually did target GAIM, they might have more success.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
That's the standard DOS keybinding. It still works in most Windows programs as a long-held-over compatibility thing, but it's not the one most people use or expect.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
My first thought was... hmm.. wonder if I can compile GEP for WinGAIM. I use Trillian frequently because of the pseudo-SecureIM they have and many friends use it (it was standard use at my last company). Of course I spent a couple of days last week dissecting the Trillian SecureIM packets in hopes of implementing gaim support for it (got all but the hardwired prime... which I have some guesses at).
Anyways, if I can get GEP to build I'll abandon that and have my friends switch... especially since Trillian has become minor nagware since the 0.74 release. Of course the current GEP in sourceforge needs about 20 lines of bogus code commented out to work... ironically WinGAIM file dialog code doesn't work and I can't see the plugins directory to load the other modules (have to get the source and patch that).
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gep
You have to pull it down out of CVS and build it yourself after applying this patch that simply removes the bogus code that tries to make a read-only text field look grey (of course something you could never to with Trillian)... nevermind the short patch didn't pass the slashdot junk filter. Just comment out everything in gep.c from lines 306 through 326.
I hear that Gaim speaks jabber - but jabber speaks AIM as well as a bunch of other protocols. I've got a jabber server running, I use ICQv7 protocol, MSN and Jabber - I had Yahoo and AIM installed too but none of my (few) users used it, so I disabled it - less to maintain ;) :) (I know it's ICQ but this is simpler!)
Anyway I haven't used anything else in more than a year!
Oh yeah and a nice feature of Jabber/ICQv7 is that you can add any mobile phone to your buddy list - and send SMS messages from the IM
For the client side I use Psi - A VERY cool client - available for BOTH Linux and Windows! It's really nice IM client - granted it does miss a few Jabber features such as chatrooms etc... But I never use that - I only use normal IM chat messages...
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
Oh and Psi can use SSL - I use it! It's quite cool ;)
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
I've been using Trillian for quite some time now, and I've found it to be very worthwhile. It's very stable, works with every popular service, and since I don't do mIRC programming/scripting, it works just fine for IRC, too.
:)
Anyone who donated to Trillian gets a free copy of Trillian Pro, as a bonus...
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
From what I can see, it appears Trillian is proprietary software. Therefore I have the same reservations I have with any other proprietary software. One such reservation being that I wouldn't trust Trillian to encrypt my conversations so that only the parties I intend to talk to can decrypt it. I prefer to have the community of hackers working for me which is why I prefer Free Software.
Your critique is right-on; it is a natural consequence of following the Open Source movement. If all you value are the practical ends of a program (i.e., more features, better features, versatility, usability) you will use whatever meets those needs including using proprietary software. The FSF has an essay which lays out this argument quite well. This is why it is important to understand the difference between the Open Source movement and the Free Software movement.
I value my software freedom and therefore I recognize that Trillian, like any other proprietary software, can not help me retain my software freedom. When the community retains their software freedom they can write the software which will meet practical needs; we are dependant on ourselves. If we sacrifice our freedom we become dependant on a proprietor. Therefore I prefer Free Software and I will not use Trillian.
And now gaim! I'm so happy to have a decent AIM client in windoze now. I didn't really like what was already out there with trillian, etc.
Since QT isn't free for developers on Windows. Or at least it isn't yet - I guess there it might not be too hard to port the GPL version to Win32 if one wanted. But I'm sure the kopete folks will not be paying for a QT license or porting QT anytime soon.
This is the one benefit of GTK, even if QT seems to be quicker to develop with.
Has anyone gotten a decent .gtkrc to work with WinGaim? If so please share.
While people are talking about Trillian... on more than one occasion it ate my contact lists for dinner, never to return. And the same with many others. Hooray.
-Drache Kubisuro
Jesus is the Latino who works at the taco stand. Do I win anything?
If you're like me, you're probably telling your girlfriend about how you got a high score on Counterstrike. Women love that! Its a sign of power and virility.
You masturbate to filthy German scat porn, and want to date a she-male. I can tell my your obsessive need to be in control. Life will be easier for you once you learn to relax. And she-males will find you more desirable, too!
Hey, I've been reading Slashdot for a long time, and this is my first post.
First off, I am not one who sticks to standard software just because they are popular, made by Microsoft/AOL Time Warner, etc. Neither do I use alternative software for that reason alone. I use whatever is most useful to me, and in this sense, I was never able to understand why people like programs like GAIM, Mozilla, Emacs, etc. on Windows.
I never really liked any of the multi-platform clients. I remember using GAIM briefly two years ago; I liked its logging and buddy pounce features. It sure kicked the crap out of AIM for Linux. Now I use AIM 4.8 with AIM+ (AIM+ users: don't upgrade to 5.0). AIM+ can make windows transparent, remove ads, etc., but I really find the logging and cloning features to be most useful.
I downloaded GAIM for Windows yesterday, and I removed it today. It looks hideous (though I could care less), it's clumsy to use, it formats incorrectly (both IMs and profiles), the tabbed windows are useless (thanks to XP's window grouping), you can't Talk, you can't Play Games, you can't use the Add-Ins for AIM, you can't Get Files, you can't look up directory info (and yes, I use all these AIM features regularly), it does a god-awful job of "intelligently" merging contacts (and worse, these changes permanently alter your buddy list stored on AIM servers; I had to re-edit the buddy lists manually)...the list goes on.
And this is all just concerning its handling of AIM. Need I go on about its drawbacks on the other platforms? I think this one-night affair is best forgotten.
I have similar complaints against Trillian, Jabber, EveryBuddy, etc. (all of which I have used very, very patiently, on multiple occasions over the years). Now I know that GAIM is open-source, and if I wanted to, I can change it however I please, potentially making it the most kick-ass client ever. But I *don't* want to, and if the authors of GAIM couldn't make it any better than it is right now, then I sure as hell can't.
So, either I'm missing something huge here (and I sure hope I am, because I like AIM/OSCAR just about as much as the next guy), or the rebellious vocal minority has once again confounded "keeping an open mind" with "blind devotion to the alternatives." Until GAIM catches up, I'm sticking to AIM+.
What difference does it make if you use gaim or aim under windows? Sure gaim uses different and open libraries but it offers no extra functionality so why should I bother to change? Under linux I use gaim but under windows i use aim and I dont think switching is worth the time.
Anyone using IM as a way to get server alerts... like a pager?
Are there any decent cross-platform libraries to send messages?
Thanks.
or is it a one (very restrictive) protocol messaging client?
People. WinGaim is ALPHA. That means it's less stable/robust/tested than even BETA which is less stable/robust/tested then a production release.
It can't be compared to Trillian or AIM or anything else because it's a pre-pre-pre-pre-release.
A comparison of gAIM for Linux to Trillian would be fair..but complaining about the ugliness of the interface is unreasonable--are you too stupid to realize that GUI issues are the biggest problem in a port?
Come on. There's a good three dozen posts here saying WinGaim is bad because it doesn't do this well. If you downloaded it expecting to use it then you were wrong in downloading it.
Doesn't everyone know that alpha releases aren't actually meant to be used in the RealWorld(tm)?
Brian
I'm working on a contract at Warner Music Group. Everyone there (at least IT) uses IM... and you know what??? IT WORKS.
Being able to communicate with people spread across different floors or even 100 feet away is very convenient. Phone calls require 100% communication and can't be done in parallel.
Evolution: love it or leave it
"Very promising, and hopefully with time it will become as good as the Linux version, but until then its back to Trillian Pro." He says it looks good and knows it will get better, but until it is out of alpha, he will use Trillian. Why bash the guy for something he blatantly did not do? Quit trolling people.
Rock over London, Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: Breakfast of Champions.
I've found that Trillian will crash 100% of the time if you send an a Trillian user an embeded image from win32 GAIM. (The Insert IM Image button next to the smilies button.)
It sends:
<IMG SRC="file://C:\96-16.jpg" ID="1" DATASIZE="239358">
I'm really not sure how this is supposed to work in the first place since it references a local file.
Why is slashcode removing my img html instead of just escaping the less than and greater than characters when submitting a post as plain text? But if I escape the first less than myself the ampersand in that entity is left along but the greater than at the end of the image element is escaped?
Phillip
It's also (for example) Jabber, MSN and yes, IRC too