I'm a sysad at a company that is looking to switch to linux, and all I need to convince them to go with debian is come up with an automated installer. You'll notice that in the interview, they cover that: it's slated for the release *after* woody. I.e., all we need to do is wait for a year. And don't point me to FAI.
Well, let me point you to autoinstall instead then. It's done by Prodigy and although I've never seen it IRL, it's supposed to be quite cool.
The only real problem I've ever seen with Debian's installer was the dselect stage, where most users choke completely.
I've read discussion on debian-boot, where joeyh stated that aptitude would advance into base and replace dselect. This got reflected in aptitude's latest ChangeLog, but I don't know if it will really happen. Anyway, aptitude is a lot nicer than dselect.
On the other hand, what Debian really needs to do is enhance and extend the aforementions tasksel utility. Tasksel has the right idea, but it doesn't go far enough.
I'm sad to tell you that we dropped old-style tasks for woody and did a new implementation. This is not bad, but it seems tasks got tidied up quite a bit and there are fewer around now.
But if things like apache and mozilla are starting to fall, how is the future looking for debian?
Well apart from the fact that release is far away as everybody stated; mozilla-0.9.5 _is_ in woody as of this week ("The force was strong yesterday" -- Wichert Akkerman), the announcement is older.
But regarding apache, voices have been heard that want to put apache in non-free or even remove it as their license doesn't permit derived works with the same name. Now, if a patched apache debian package qualifies as a derived work was never settled on on debian-legal...
The Article stated that it wasn't easy to get icc running on Debian. Does anybody have some insight on this, perhaps a small HOWTO?
thanks,
Michael
Re:No reason an OS needs 6 CDs
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Debian On DVD
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· Score: 1
Even bloated evil windows is ONE CD!
But then, where are the apps in Windows? Oh... Wordpad, I forgot:-P
You can install Debian from 2 floppy disks over the network, the base system is way below 100Mbyte.
Michael
Re:still not where it needs to be for me
on
Debian On DVD
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· Score: 1
though. as of 2.4.10, there has been support for these devices,
We don't consider 2.4.10 stable. If you do, go ahead and use the custom disks. But woody will be around for a long time and a broken installation isn't the most appealing thing in this situation
Michael
Re:Isn't woody testing now?
on
Debian On DVD
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· Score: 1
Nope. The progression of packages from unstable to testing is defined, and does not allow packages to be updated immediately.Packages must be in sid for 2 weeks with no updates and no release-critical bugs submitted against it
That's for priority: low. AFAIK you can trim down the lag by raising the priority but you should know what you do and this happens rarely.
Exult is an awesome reimplementation of the Ultima7 engine. They use the original graphics, so you need the original game, but it's GPL'd and SDL'd so you can play Ultima7, eh Exult under Windows, MacOS, BeOS and Linux:)
Michael
That is a bit debateable. Ask some palestinesians what they think of it. I agree with this, though.
> Any preisdent who sought re-election for himself or anyone in his
> party would commit political suicide otherwise.
Well, is this the declaration of bankrupcy of american politics? You want to tell us, that the President of the USofA _has_ to strike back in order to win the next election? How about thinking about America first and the political future seconds? A war with most countries of far east isn't exactly the thing I would find desirable.
Roosevelts speach has been quoting several times already, btw.
There are a lot of rants against lsb-1.0 on debian-devel right now. I am not talking about rpm/deb flames here, but things like runlevels uid-assignments and init.d-scriptnames.
No chance lsb will be supported by Woody. However, I think chances are good that it will be somehow supported by the next release (or unstable, some weeks from now)
Michael
One thing that turned me off of debian was that after installing the full X11 package, debian enabled XDM
You are talking about task-x-window or what? I guess a lot of people excpect xdm to be in this task package. Anyway, can't you switch to a textmode-console and deinstall xdm on ppc?
there is a lot of Linux software that also requires a reboot to function properly
huh?
I just read this week on debian-devel that you can still upgrade from 1.1 to sid without a reboot (although this is recommended when passing the bo/hamm-libc6 border). The only thing that really breaks are modutils as they don't work on kernels 2.2.
Michael
Using Debian since the last days of Bo, I am quit delighted to hear this happen. At last somebody got a clue about Linux. It's not so important to have a business partner but rather somebody you can rely on and who does the right things[tm]
Although he claims to not have been involved by this descision, Bruce Perens looks like the right one for this job. After IBM and SGI, HP is the third big one who does it right.
Apparently, the LSB seems to take up some pace. It's a shame that most commercial Applications are only avaible for one distribution, I hope this gets better (not that I would use commercial stuff, but I think it's good in general.
One question remains: Where is the code? Wasn't that the point of Bruce Perens job at HP? I haven't looked thoroughly, but I can't remember HP releasing a lot of stuff for the community except their ports to their own hardware.
Could someone exlain that to me, please? I've never seen any GTK+ widgets in Mozilla, is this low-level? WTF do they invent their own "glorious" toolkit only to be dependant on another?
Sorry, but as far as I see it, it's not so much about themes, widgets, languages or toolkits; it's all about the different component models, bonobo and kparts.
Everything else can be polished with a bit of effort, I guess.
No way I'm ever working for Progeny. They don't let you sleep, by the sounds of it!
Well, I didn't say those guys work at Progeny 24/7 of course. But they are free to work on Debian whenever they want. And let's hope that some of them keep an eye on their packages after hours.
doesnt seem there is enough extra to make it worth paying for, but what is these days. =]
I guess I'll buy it for the fact alone that they hired several Debian "Senior" Developers like Branden. Thanks to them, those can now work on Debian-related stuff 24/7. And they give back their enhancements to the community.
Case in point - in Germany, IIRC August 1934, 'The Enabling Law' (don't know the proper German name for it, sorry) was passed by a _95%_ vote and giving absolute power to Adolf Hitler...
It's called "Ermächtigungsgesetz" over here. IIRC it was already in '33. The Social democratic Party voted in favor of it, something I will never understand. The "absolute power" was limited to four years, perhaps that's why they decided to do so. Hitler would most likely had his way anyway, perhaps a bit later. Of course, 4 years later, the law was again applied, with all social democrats in concentration camps for almost 4 years...
A (only) 95% vote in favor for Hitler by August '34 would have most probably been seen as a devastating defeat for him, I guess. Almost everybody was brain-washed, dead or in concentration camps by then.
...and shouting Zieg Heil (can't spell German stuff, sorry!)
It's "Sieg Heil", Sieg being the plain german word for "Victory". I don't quite get the philosphy of neo-nazis, after all, the "Sieg" was not "Heil" but rather crappy... IIRC, even the nazi officials acknowledged that the russian/slavian man was apparantly "stronger/better genetically equipped/whatever" than the aryen man, and tried their best to destroy anything that was left of Germany by that time(still looking for quotes here, though)
>>Even the government wanted to forbid a fascist party and it couldn't.
>What are you referring to? IIRC two parties have been forbidden, the DKP and the SRP.
All right, but it's not the government that forbids parties, it the german constitutional court. The Government only _wants_ to forbid them. The next bid for forbidding *g* a fascist party is underway, backed by legislative and executive. But in the end, it's the "supreme court" who rules.
well, IAAG, but we didn't exactly kicked them out of our country. They are under surveillence by our (pitiful) intelligence Agency; Scientologists must not take jobs in federal offices and most enterprises are quite thoughtful about giving jobs to practising scientologists.
I think that Sc is making a big fuzz about this in America, by stating that they would be discriminated similar to jews in the 30s. There is _no_ latent violence or anything towards Scientologists by the german population, we are just a bit suspicious.
actually, I am quite surprised nobody speaks in favor of Scientology here, I thought they had a far greater support in the US than over in Germany. But then, I don't really know the peoples opinion (and I hereby guess that the governments "peoples opinion" isn't exactly the same as most of yours)
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Well, let me point you to autoinstall instead then. It's done by Prodigy and although I've never seen it IRL, it's supposed to be quite cool.
Michael
I've read discussion on debian-boot, where joeyh stated that aptitude would advance into base and replace dselect. This got reflected in aptitude's latest ChangeLog, but I don't know if it will really happen. Anyway, aptitude is a lot nicer than dselect.
On the other hand, what Debian really needs to do is enhance and extend the aforementions tasksel utility. Tasksel has the right idea, but it doesn't go far enough.
I'm sad to tell you that we dropped old-style tasks for woody and did a new implementation. This is not bad, but it seems tasks got tidied up quite a bit and there are fewer around now.
Michael
I'd like to see dselect redone -properly-.
Rejoice, as aptitude apparently got promoted to base and will be called by base-config instead of Debian.
Michael
Well apart from the fact that release is far away as everybody stated; mozilla-0.9.5 _is_ in woody as of this week ("The force was strong yesterday" -- Wichert Akkerman), the announcement is older.
But regarding apache, voices have been heard that want to put apache in non-free or even remove it as their license doesn't permit derived works with the same name. Now, if a patched apache debian package qualifies as a derived work was never settled on on debian-legal...
Michael
Note that synaptic has been ITP'd a month ago and isn't exactly for adoption, IMHO.
I agree that it should be part of Debian though.
Michael
thanks,
Michael
But then, where are the apps in Windows? Oh... Wordpad, I forgot
You can install Debian from 2 floppy disks over the network, the base system is way below 100Mbyte.
Michael
We don't consider 2.4.10 stable. If you do, go ahead and use the custom disks. But woody will be around for a long time and a broken installation isn't the most appealing thing in this situation
Michael
That's for priority: low. AFAIK you can trim down the lag by raising the priority but you should know what you do and this happens rarely.
Michael
Exult is an awesome reimplementation of the Ultima7 engine. They use the original graphics, so you need the original game, but it's GPL'd and SDL'd so you can play Ultima7, eh Exult under Windows, MacOS, BeOS and Linux :)
Michael
> Nah, Linux itself is too easy for the elite. BSD is the way to go now.
:)
:-/
Good thing Debian/BSD is already worked on
Anyway, _real_ men use Debian GNU/Hurd. Well I don't
Michael
Bruce Springsteen "I'm On Fire"
Bruce Springsteen "Goin' Down"
Well, they missed "Born in the USA", but as history shows, this song will be the war anthem again...
> It is an unprovoked attack on American soil
That is a bit debateable. Ask some palestinesians what they think of it. I agree with this, though.
> Any preisdent who sought re-election for himself or anyone in his
> party would commit political suicide otherwise.
Well, is this the declaration of bankrupcy of american politics? You want to tell us, that the President of the USofA _has_ to strike back in order to win the next election? How about thinking about America first and the political future seconds? A war with most countries of far east isn't exactly the thing I would find desirable.
Roosevelts speach has been quoting several times already, btw.
Michael
There are a lot of rants against lsb-1.0 on debian-devel right now. I am not talking about rpm/deb flames here, but things like runlevels uid-assignments and init.d-scriptnames.
No chance lsb will be supported by Woody. However, I think chances are good that it will be somehow supported by the next release (or unstable, some weeks from now) Michael
You are talking about task-x-window or what? I guess a lot of people excpect xdm to be in this task package. Anyway, can't you switch to a textmode-console and deinstall xdm on ppc?
Michael
huh? I just read this week on debian-devel that you can still upgrade from 1.1 to sid without a reboot (although this is recommended when passing the bo/hamm-libc6 border). The only thing that really breaks are modutils as they don't work on kernels 2.2. Michael
Although he claims to not have been involved by this descision, Bruce Perens looks like the right one for this job. After IBM and SGI, HP is the third big one who does it right.
Apparently, the LSB seems to take up some pace. It's a shame that most commercial Applications are only avaible for one distribution, I hope this gets better (not that I would use commercial stuff, but I think it's good in general.
One question remains: Where is the code? Wasn't that the point of Bruce Perens job at HP? I haven't looked thoroughly, but I can't remember HP releasing a lot of stuff for the community except their ports to their own hardware.
Could someone exlain that to me, please? I've never seen any GTK+ widgets in Mozilla, is this low-level? WTF do they invent their own "glorious" toolkit only to be dependant on another?
Everything else can be polished with a bit of effort, I guess.
AFAIK, there's no GUI at all. Just plain BSD. After all, Apple is making their money by creating nice GUIs so it's alright by me.
Well, I didn't say those guys work at Progeny 24/7 of course. But they are free to work on Debian whenever they want. And let's hope that some of them keep an eye on their packages after hours.
I guess I'll buy it for the fact alone that they hired several Debian "Senior" Developers like Branden. Thanks to them, those can now work on Debian-related stuff 24/7. And they give back their enhancements to the community.
It's called "Ermächtigungsgesetz" over here. IIRC it was already in '33. The Social democratic Party voted in favor of it, something I will never understand. The "absolute power" was limited to four years, perhaps that's why they decided to do so. Hitler would most likely had his way anyway, perhaps a bit later. Of course, 4 years later, the law was again applied, with all social democrats in concentration camps for almost 4 years...
A (only) 95% vote in favor for Hitler by August '34 would have most probably been seen as a devastating defeat for him, I guess. Almost everybody was brain-washed, dead or in concentration camps by then.
It's "Sieg Heil", Sieg being the plain german word for "Victory". I don't quite get the philosphy of neo-nazis, after all, the "Sieg" was not "Heil" but rather crappy... IIRC, even the nazi officials acknowledged that the russian/slavian man was apparantly "stronger/better genetically equipped/whatever" than the aryen man, and tried their best to destroy anything that was left of Germany by that time(still looking for quotes here, though)
>>Even the government wanted to forbid a fascist party and it couldn't.
>What are you referring to? IIRC two parties have been forbidden, the DKP and the SRP.
All right, but it's not the government that forbids parties, it the german constitutional court. The Government only _wants_ to forbid them. The next bid for forbidding *g* a fascist party is underway, backed by legislative and executive. But in the end, it's the "supreme court" who rules.
I think that Sc is making a big fuzz about this in America, by stating that they would be discriminated similar to jews in the 30s. There is _no_ latent violence or anything towards Scientologists by the german population, we are just a bit suspicious.
actually, I am quite surprised nobody speaks in favor of Scientology here, I thought they had a far greater support in the US than over in Germany. But then, I don't really know the peoples opinion (and I hereby guess that the governments "peoples opinion" isn't exactly the same as most of yours)