Yep I can get a PC for $500 but the one I want is about $5,000. Quad Proc, XPCI, SCSI Raid, Dual flat screen. Call me when that lot costs $500 and I'll want something else that happens to cost around $5,000.
I am all for an Enterprise Debian, I think most companies would also prefer a professinal open solution to RedHat/Novell/Sun. Most developers would.
This project will obviously address the needs of it's sponsors, reading the paper it sounds like this is a for a desktop replacement for Windows, why not be more specific about your sponsors needs. As for KDE/GNOME didn't FreeDesktop address this? What is the future plans for your sponsors? How often do they wish to patch, how often do they wish to upgrade etc etc. More info.
What happens when other orgs want their version of Debian Enterprise, say an LTSP version or a MOSIX cluster? Do we have multiple Enterprise Debians?
I think you will need to be far more strict than you imagine to cut down the packages used. I'm sorta thinking a new release of debian that things from Debian-Stable get promoted from. Or indeed a subset of debian-Stable.
Why not build a testing framework as your version of Linux? Take Debian-Stable, reduce the package count to a minimum. Write the AUTOMATED test. Then anybody can write software for your system. The validation is that after they've installed their software your test framework still executes correctly. Test early, test often.
Cerifitcation will have to happen on many levels. Hardware players IBM,Sun etc need to certify your code. Infrastructure software needs to certify your code. Apps software needs to certify your code. Developer/Admin/User certification will need to be available.
Make no mistake $1m a year is not a lot of change and this is a _HUGE_ undertaking.
Jesus, I stated on a ZX-81 and went to work in '85.
I still have the first computer book I ever bought. Electronic Data Processing by Glyn Emery Pitman. Published in 1968.
Anybody who thinks computers are cool technology should dig up this book or one like it. They had everything back then, we've been treading water for 30+ years.
FPGA
Yes it's not real silicon but it's the best we can do at present. So fscking use it instead of bitching about no fab. We are never going to have a fab, get over, move sideways and continue.
Once upon a time there was no GNU C compiler did people sit around wringing their hands, or did they use the tools they had and write one?
People moan about no open source 3D support in Linux, well pick up an AGP based FPGA and implement one.
DVD encoding, Factoring, etc PCI based FPGA.
FPGA are cheap enough that any hardware hacker should have at least one installed in his PC. The more people that have them the cheaper they become. The more apps that are written for them, the more people will want them.
So stop whining and go get yourself a FPGA.
Is this the one where you had to chord to get the chars. Sorta 15 keys, weighs a ton. sigh, youthful memories of punching paramaeter cards for batch work, sigh.
I guess expensive depends on your tastes.
I just bought a 27ft 1968 Soling.
The soling cost $1750, on a trailer with three sets of sails including kites. It costs $80 a month to keep it in a yard next to the hoist.
I fully expect to sail it a least once a week for the next two years with minimal cost $100 a month including storage.
Contrast that with the guy next to me who has just bought a Melges 24 for about $30k, new sails each year, boat prep each month, etc. His yearly costs are about twice what I paid for my set up!
The secret to cheap boat ownership is the same as cheap computing, don't buy the latest and greatest wait for a good deal, buy what you need and then make it last.
Mirrored everything, Stratus do this with their fault tolerant kit and have done since the mid 80s.
Zero downtime baby, we can dream, but I want the same reliability I have from my phone.
Computers should just work damn it.
Forget the CD look at etherboot, no CD no hard disk. No fscking way my users can hose the machine with software. If they break the hardware just wander down with a replacement.
LTSP is one project working on Xterms.
For my money we are still waiting for fault tolerant clusters before this really takes off. I want cheap Xterms connected by ethernet to my FT cluster. A node fails no problem another will auto take over with no downtime ot any user. Auto load balancing ie Mosix. Cheap replacable server farm baby:-)
The best bit is that it's coming, the work is now being done on more than one project:-)
I've worked in the trenches for almost 20yrs. I have to say he hit the nail on the head.
Why should a business spend a shed load of money to gain no advantage? They shouldn't they should look to buy IT as a utility or infrasturture.
Why is Open Source booming? A lot of devleopers/managers realise that all they need is software that does the job, anything extra is supurflous. They'll glady help/pay to write the software as long as they only pay once.
The first business that adopts the less is more approach to software will dramatically reduce IT costs. 90% functionality is more than enough for anybody:-)
List the applications a business needs and then see if they are available. The race is on, which Open Source projects are going to be the 800lb gorilla.
My list
Low level PL C/C++ Business PL (Java/Perl/Python) OS Linux (Debian) Desktop (KDE,Gnome) Web Server Apache Browser Mozilla Office Suite Open Office Database SAP DB Accounts Package (Gnu Cash) ERP Compiere CRM BI
You'll notice there are no commercial products. Business will require open source in the future, why pay for upgrades when you can get it at low cost.
A closed source company will be required to defend itself with ip law. Expect to see more and more patent wars waged, rather like the pharma companies. A patent is a license to print money but when it expires so does your money. Generic Drugs=Generic software.
The question is do you want to work in IT when your only job is gluing other peoples code together? If not you'd better start thinking about which project you wish to work on.
You think vertical markets are going to help you, think again. How many forms of banking are there? How many types of insurance.. etc etc The first big OS project in these markets will probably never be over taken.
IT will only ever be a large expense to those companies that can derive profit from that expense.
The SAP-MySQL link is only a fairly recent development. I would like to see how Ellison views it and how his approach will differ from the microsoft approach to Linux.
Hey, how about an ask/. to Ellison:-)
F1 has always had the money to investigate any option.
Active supsension, banned.
Active downforce, banned.
One lap tyres, banned.
Qualifying engines, banned.
Tractions control, automatic start, ABS, banned, oops no re-instated.
Mclaren had a car with no driver all computer controlled. FIA banned it.
Williams had a CVT almost ready to go, banned.
Teams started to build cars with twin seats, suddenly a rule appears stating that a car can only have one driver, obviously a just in case rule as the rules stated each driver scored points and had no limits on the number of drivers in a car.
I really like the test rigs they test cars on. 7 post I think. Engine dynos, to replicate race stresses. Is there away to realistaclly simulate Gs?
The big problem is cornering speeds, as they go up the safety of the drivers goes down. Given a choice between driving a safe slow car or a dangerous winner all drivers would go for the winner.
The best racing sim ever, GP Legends.
There are strong parallels between early Hitler and the current Bush. I'm not saying that Bush is or is going to be as bad as Hitler. The big difference to my mind is that Hitler served in the trenches during the WWI, Bush hid in Texas during Vietnam.
If you cannot see the danger in:-
the new laws like the Patriot Act,
treating POWs as examples, Guantanemo Bay,
the use of no-bid contracts by the executive,
the new people employed to spy on Americans,
the increased control exerted over the military,
the attempts to obilterate any dissent,
the new selective service jobs,
then feel free to read what Hitler was doing after his first election. I take it you have the books you so freely ask others to read?
Bush got rid of two dictatorships, I assume you mean Afghanistan and Iraq. My politcal knowledge is limited but I do not think Afghanistan was a dictatorship, no single leader you see. Also, Saddam is not accounted for, his dictatorship is seemingly gone.
Why did the US invade these countries? We were after Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and WMD in Iraq. 100% failure so far. Silly me I was forgetting the world is rid of two dictatorships.
Now I see you're anger when people compare Bush to Hitler. Hitler could plan a decent shock and awe, I mean blitzakrieg, campaign. Bush couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
The article says 5 years to market.
Moores Law applied
256*2*2*2*2*2*2 = roughly 9 years
So this thing has roughly 4 years of life if introduced in 5 years. Wanna spend five years of research for four years profit?
Now if this thing obeys Moores law then the above conclusion is wrong.
Personally I'm still waiting for PCI-X, SCSI in a cheap machine.
My bad I meant DF could fly rings around the other. I met the designer in Richomnd CA. He was sending some tanks out to be pressure tested. He never offered me a go:-(
Only 7, are you sure? I seem to remember more than 7 racing in the GT championship. Any how, active aero was the big thing for me, the thing generates it's own downforce. Ala Brabham in the mid 70s before it was banned after one race. Come to think of it the same guy designed both cars. His excuse for the Brabham was it was just a large cooling fan...that happened to suck the car down on it's springs:-)
Enough rambling I also want his other road car the Rocket by the Light car Comp.
Slashdot Mirror
Ruling in Judge awarded both IBMs requests and stopped further discovery until SCO complies. Bascially, put up or shut up.
No SCO lawyers in court. Which speaks volumes for their legal advice.
Grok law has the details.
Yep I can get a PC for $500 but the one I want is about $5,000. Quad Proc, XPCI, SCSI Raid, Dual flat screen. Call me when that lot costs $500 and I'll want something else that happens to cost around $5,000.
I am all for an Enterprise Debian, I think most companies would also prefer a professinal open solution to RedHat/Novell/Sun. Most developers would.
This project will obviously address the needs of it's sponsors, reading the paper it sounds like this is a for a desktop replacement for Windows, why not be more specific about your sponsors needs. As for KDE/GNOME didn't FreeDesktop address this? What is the future plans for your sponsors? How often do they wish to patch, how often do they wish to upgrade etc etc. More info.
What happens when other orgs want their version of Debian Enterprise, say an LTSP version or a MOSIX cluster? Do we have multiple Enterprise Debians?
I think you will need to be far more strict than you imagine to cut down the packages used. I'm sorta thinking a new release of debian that things from Debian-Stable get promoted from. Or indeed a subset of debian-Stable.
Why not build a testing framework as your version of Linux? Take Debian-Stable, reduce the package count to a minimum. Write the AUTOMATED test. Then anybody can write software for your system. The validation is that after they've installed their software your test framework still executes correctly. Test early, test often.
Cerifitcation will have to happen on many levels. Hardware players IBM,Sun etc need to certify your code. Infrastructure software needs to certify your code. Apps software needs to certify your code. Developer/Admin/User certification will need to be available.
Make no mistake $1m a year is not a lot of change and this is a _HUGE_ undertaking.
You must be an optimist. Such a low user number and you expect moderators to mod somebody down because you say so and they didn't read the article.
So why did you drop so many motorcycles ?
Jesus, I stated on a ZX-81 and went to work in '85.
I still have the first computer book I ever bought. Electronic Data Processing by Glyn Emery Pitman. Published in 1968.
Anybody who thinks computers are cool technology should dig up this book or one like it. They had everything back then, we've been treading water for 30+ years.
I'll guess I'll wait on the buying front :-)
Your still thinking to small.
:-)
Try millenia ** millenia ** millenia of vast nothing
A slow burn over a couple of years would be better
FPGA Yes it's not real silicon but it's the best we can do at present. So fscking use it instead of bitching about no fab. We are never going to have a fab, get over, move sideways and continue. Once upon a time there was no GNU C compiler did people sit around wringing their hands, or did they use the tools they had and write one? People moan about no open source 3D support in Linux, well pick up an AGP based FPGA and implement one. DVD encoding, Factoring, etc PCI based FPGA. FPGA are cheap enough that any hardware hacker should have at least one installed in his PC. The more people that have them the cheaper they become. The more apps that are written for them, the more people will want them. So stop whining and go get yourself a FPGA.
Is this the one where you had to chord to get the chars. Sorta 15 keys, weighs a ton. sigh, youthful memories of punching paramaeter cards for batch work, sigh.
I guess expensive depends on your tastes. I just bought a 27ft 1968 Soling. The soling cost $1750, on a trailer with three sets of sails including kites. It costs $80 a month to keep it in a yard next to the hoist. I fully expect to sail it a least once a week for the next two years with minimal cost $100 a month including storage. Contrast that with the guy next to me who has just bought a Melges 24 for about $30k, new sails each year, boat prep each month, etc. His yearly costs are about twice what I paid for my set up! The secret to cheap boat ownership is the same as cheap computing, don't buy the latest and greatest wait for a good deal, buy what you need and then make it last.
Mirrored everything, Stratus do this with their fault tolerant kit and have done since the mid 80s. Zero downtime baby, we can dream, but I want the same reliability I have from my phone. Computers should just work damn it.
Yep,
:-)
:-)
server based computing is the answer.
Forget the CD look at etherboot, no CD no hard disk. No fscking way my users can hose the machine with software. If they break the hardware just wander down with a replacement.
LTSP is one project working on Xterms.
For my money we are still waiting for fault tolerant clusters before this really takes off. I want cheap Xterms connected by ethernet to my FT cluster. A node fails no problem another will auto take over with no downtime ot any user. Auto load balancing ie Mosix. Cheap replacable server farm baby
The best bit is that it's coming, the work is now being done on more than one project
I've worked in the trenches for almost 20yrs. I have to say he hit the nail on the head.
:-)
Why should a business spend a shed load of money to gain no advantage? They shouldn't they should look to buy IT as a utility or infrasturture.
Why is Open Source booming? A lot of devleopers/managers realise that all they need is software that does the job, anything extra is supurflous. They'll glady help/pay to write the software as long as they only pay once.
The first business that adopts the less is more approach to software will dramatically reduce IT costs. 90% functionality is more than enough for anybody
List the applications a business needs and then see if they are available. The race is on, which Open Source projects are going to be the 800lb gorilla.
My list
Low level PL C/C++
Business PL (Java/Perl/Python)
OS Linux (Debian)
Desktop (KDE,Gnome)
Web Server Apache
Browser Mozilla
Office Suite Open Office
Database SAP DB
Accounts Package (Gnu Cash)
ERP Compiere
CRM
BI
You'll notice there are no commercial products. Business will require open source in the future, why pay for upgrades when you can get it at low cost.
A closed source company will be required to defend itself with ip law. Expect to see more and more patent wars waged, rather like the pharma companies. A patent is a license to print money but when it expires so does your money. Generic Drugs=Generic software.
The question is do you want to work in IT when your only job is gluing other peoples code together? If not you'd better start thinking about which project you wish to work on.
You think vertical markets are going to help you, think again. How many forms of banking are there? How many types of insurance.. etc etc The first big OS project in these markets will probably never be over taken.
IT will only ever be a large expense to those companies that can derive profit from that expense.
The SAP-MySQL link is only a fairly recent development. I would like to see how Ellison views it and how his approach will differ from the microsoft approach to Linux. Hey, how about an ask /. to Ellison :-)
F1 has always had the money to investigate any option. Active supsension, banned. Active downforce, banned. One lap tyres, banned. Qualifying engines, banned. Tractions control, automatic start, ABS, banned, oops no re-instated. Mclaren had a car with no driver all computer controlled. FIA banned it. Williams had a CVT almost ready to go, banned. Teams started to build cars with twin seats, suddenly a rule appears stating that a car can only have one driver, obviously a just in case rule as the rules stated each driver scored points and had no limits on the number of drivers in a car. I really like the test rigs they test cars on. 7 post I think. Engine dynos, to replicate race stresses. Is there away to realistaclly simulate Gs? The big problem is cornering speeds, as they go up the safety of the drivers goes down. Given a choice between driving a safe slow car or a dangerous winner all drivers would go for the winner. The best racing sim ever, GP Legends.
Shave 5 seconds, thats not so much a shave as a slash. 5 seconds is a huge difference in laps times.
There are strong parallels between early Hitler and the current Bush. I'm not saying that Bush is or is going to be as bad as Hitler. The big difference to my mind is that Hitler served in the trenches during the WWI, Bush hid in Texas during Vietnam. If you cannot see the danger in :-
the new laws like the Patriot Act,
treating POWs as examples, Guantanemo Bay,
the use of no-bid contracts by the executive,
the new people employed to spy on Americans,
the increased control exerted over the military,
the attempts to obilterate any dissent,
the new selective service jobs,
then feel free to read what Hitler was doing after his first election. I take it you have the books you so freely ask others to read?
Bush got rid of two dictatorships, I assume you mean Afghanistan and Iraq. My politcal knowledge is limited but I do not think Afghanistan was a dictatorship, no single leader you see. Also, Saddam is not accounted for, his dictatorship is seemingly gone.
Why did the US invade these countries? We were after Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and WMD in Iraq. 100% failure so far. Silly me I was forgetting the world is rid of two dictatorships.
Now I see you're anger when people compare Bush to Hitler. Hitler could plan a decent shock and awe, I mean blitzakrieg, campaign. Bush couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
Not online they don't. Who reads old papers anyway?
The article says 5 years to market. Moores Law applied 256*2*2*2*2*2*2 = roughly 9 years So this thing has roughly 4 years of life if introduced in 5 years. Wanna spend five years of research for four years profit? Now if this thing obeys Moores law then the above conclusion is wrong. Personally I'm still waiting for PCI-X, SCSI in a cheap machine.
Is math applied philosophy?
Take a look at SapDB. Now if people could explain why this is not given the same level of exposure as MySQL & Postgre
My bad I meant DF could fly rings around the other. I met the designer in Richomnd CA. He was sending some tanks out to be pressure tested. He never offered me a go :-(
Only 7, are you sure? I seem to remember more than 7 racing in the GT championship. Any how, active aero was the big thing for me, the thing generates it's own downforce. Ala Brabham in the mid 70s before it was banned after one race. Come to think of it the same guy designed both cars. His excuse for the Brabham was it was just a large cooling fan...that happened to suck the car down on it's springs :-)
Enough rambling I also want his other road car the Rocket by the Light car Comp.
Time to fly rings round the old school stink boat Deep Flight