Trouble them not with your facts. After all, those deaths were internationally sanctioned. The resulting smaller death toll of the uncalled for, unsanctioned actions of the US are so much more horrendious than the larger UN Sanctions deaths....
Its just not an argument that they are willing to listen to.
Tell that to the Chinese......
At least in this case the person is just saying that they want to use the money they have to target the people that will be participating. Its very practical and fiscally sound IMNSHO....
natrual citizen by this I take it from this and your previous comment to mean "Born and raised American", which is completely incorrect in terms of security clearances (I have clearances with State and DOD), since I know people who have various level clearances who were born in another country (for example one I know was born and raised in Vietnam for 10 years, and for the past 12 has been a US Citizen. He currently holds a DOD Secret clearance). If you look at the DOD adjucation guidelines for clearances, as long as you can prove to their satisfaction that you have no foreign influences on your decisions, you can be granted one. Perhaps its slightly different for the uniformed services (though I am completely sure it is not, as I know several former foreign nationals who became US Citizens and joined various services as an officer (which for all the ways of getting comissioned that I know of, requires a minimum of a Secret to complete the process)).
You forgot a country on your list. If that area does experience the proliferation that is expected, Japan would probably join the club as well. Their little fast breeders leave so much plutonium around that the current estimate I have heard was less than 18 months. Once you have the fissionable material its just a fairly simple matter to develope the weapons.
You don't actually have a clearance do you? Because there are enough errors in your statements that I almost thought for a second that you were trying to drop misinformation out there. From the silly comment about a clearance "degrading" to who can get clearances (hint, I know a number of non-native born American citizens who hold various clearances) to the route that classified data can take when being transferred between machines (hint, there have been some innovations in the past few years that make your statements incorrect).
Another fellow suffer of the NMCI plague.. They are trying to choke down my base right now (I however will be transitioning to another federal agency before they get to me... Call me a NMCI refugee). The best part is that the genius's chose a R&D base as their first victim, Pax River(NAVAIR). I still know think they have everything right there. I cannot figure out why they didn't start with the easier stuff and then work their way up to the hard stuff. Though I think that you do have a slightly skewed perception, there is a number of groups in the Navy for whom NMCI works perfectly well, you are only giving the R&D side of the arguement. But the lack of planning to account for that group was just short of criminal. Not quite the disaster that you are presenting though (most of the Navy will not need the legacy network to operate, just the R&D), more like a billion or 2 hobbling, not the whole number.
You also have to consider who currently can put up orbital assets, its a pretty small club. Most of them are nominal friendlies (EU, Japan, Israel), not significant threats (Russia, who we want to keep their surveilence assets so that they dont accidentally think they are under attack), or or countries that would be nightmares to get in conflict with (India and China, you dont want countries with populations in excess of 1 billion (and countless nationals in your own country) to be at war with you). So this really comes down to the fact that everyone with assets up there is not on the list of places that we are going to poke (hell, all but one (Japan, and they could fix that REAL (18 months or less) quick) are nuclear powers). If you are using Bush's current foreign policy, you can see he is trying his best not to poke the one country in the "Axis of Evil" that has known nuclear weapons (we have pulled/pulling our forces off the DMZ, have stated that we intend further troop reductions in South Korea, and pulled to a more defensive posture in handling them (keeping SM-3 (exo-atmospheric interceptor) armed warships off the coast to protect US mainland, deployment of the missiles to the BMD site in Alaska)(not that I have much faith in either system, they are of questionable effectiveness). Its one thing to pick a fight wiht a country that cannot crisp your cities, its another if they can(basically the military doesn't like fair fights if they can help it, it's so much better if you can roll up your opponents with minimal risk to yourself).
Under current assumptions, attacks on military orbital infrastructure is basically on par with attacking US military forces deployed abroad, and can assume that other countries handle things the same way, and given the facts above I do not see anything happening in this arena, even if Bush gets 4 more years.
No, what is truely unacceptable is not planning for in the slightest. If you do not plan for something happening, you tend to get caught flat-footed and waste precious time (and in the modern world of combat this is very short indeed). War's are generally dirty, and anyone with the capability to take out orbital infrastructure is likely to plan (and even *gasp* build) systems to protect their infrastructure and take out the enemies assets. If you win the people who lose are not likely to complain that you didn't play "fair". If the strategists in the Pentagon aren't planning for these type of events, then they are not doing their job. I know enough about US military doctrine to know that these plans would only be carried out in the event of open warfare.
If UN Inspectors tried to come near any US military WMD (which in this case is mainly Nuclear, the chemical weapons are in the process of being destroyed), there would be a few less UN Inspectors the next day. The men and women charged with security of those weapons take their job VERY seriously, one could almost say with deadly seriousness.
Though one may note that for anyone with more than one machine the economics of the choice changed with the new multiple account discount they are offering. If you aleady have one machine, then the logic of buying another machine and getting a Lifetime pass are very questionable ($5 a month vs $300 lifetime cost calls it into doubt)
They do get bonuses, just not the awe-inspiring ones that you find in the private sector. And the SES (the really high level officials) can head all the way up to 175k + bonuses.
Though the talk of financial discipline is poorly timed, as this is the "use it or lose it" period for the DOD, which is the one main point of time when that is not necessarily true.
I think if you do a trend analysis you will find that the trend of civilians casualties (in US engagements) is on a downswing from the height (which was probably around WWII....). And you are right, no matter how hard you try, in war, some non-combatants are are going to die, there is no such thing as a totally accurate weapon.
How many of those would have died if they had continued to live under the previous regime? Or under those oh so civilized sanctions that seem to be the favored tactic (how many Iraqi's died from the the UN Sanctioned sanctions?).
I will give you props for at least acknowlaging that there are cases where war is the correct option.
Unfamiliar with the concept of representative democracy? The whole point of the system is for the people to select representatives who would work full time to make decisions, and the people sanction those decisions by selecting those who make them. While a small group makes the decisions, the general public is accountable for those actions as they were the ones who selected the leaders. If the public feels they choose wrongly, they can correct that by recalling those leaders or selecting new ones in the next election cycle.
Silly person. Do you really think that even if the Democrats win that DHS is going to die? A tool such as DHS is useful to either group that is in power. Why would either side willingly destroy an organization that they can easily bend to their specific purposes?
If you really think that Software Engineering = "Code Writing" than obviously you have never dealt with truly serious systems (ie, ones where a lot of money are involved, or ones where if you make a mistake in the process, there is a good chance that someone is going to die as a result). Your bastardized view of SE pretty much shows you haven't, because those who have dealt with those sort of technologies know the importance of the whole process and lifecycle that surrounds systems like these.
Code Writing = Software Engineering... It was lucky that I wasnt drinking anything at the time, it would have spurted out with the laughter as I read that statement.
I know on some level I have been holding off purchasing a new machine until D3 and HL2 became available, so I can imagine that others are doing so as well.
Enviromentalist extremists are best left unheard and/or shot at. I want to place my vote for the latter, as from my POV these people will not be happy until humanity dies off as a race, and I would like to volunteer them to be first in line.
BOINC on Tivo? The words "like hell" come to mind (not that it can't be done). I want my Tivo's doing nothing but their very critical task of recording and deliverinf Daniels' digital prozak. I have enough problems with the damn cable box crashing periodically (thanks Cox Communications!), the last thing I need is for the Tivo to have some reason to crash too.
This would be because we often play central american teams for a lot of our games, and those have a bad habit of turning into home games for the visitors, not for the US. Thats the same reason we don't get many here in Washington DC anymore (El Salvador, Costa Rica, etc have all turned into unpleasant situations if you were a US fan). Thats why you will find more games in the heartland and colder US cities, to make sure that the team gets one good home game. (I always feel sorry for the players who have to go to those countries, the treatment they generally receive is downright awful)
soccer in America* Don't bet on soccer in the US (and I say this as a USMNT and MLS (DC United) fan. 9K people at a World Cup qualification game..... and about a 1/3 were supporting the Grenada team. Really bloody sad, that we cannot put together a good crowd for this game.
American Express used to (still does? I am at work and for some reason, my network admins have decided that is a site I cannot reach....). They would give you a unique CC number each time to use, and it would be single use only. Pretty spiffy.
Slashdot Mirror
Dear Rest of the World, re:our election system F'n back-off.... You don't want to go there. Signed, USA
If they haven't submitted their vote by now, the odds are that it will never arrive in time to be counted.
Trouble them not with your facts. After all, those deaths were internationally sanctioned. The resulting smaller death toll of the uncalled for, unsanctioned actions of the US are so much more horrendious than the larger UN Sanctions deaths....
Its just not an argument that they are willing to listen to.
Tell that to the Chinese...... At least in this case the person is just saying that they want to use the money they have to target the people that will be participating. Its very practical and fiscally sound IMNSHO....
natrual citizen
by this I take it from this and your previous comment to mean "Born and raised American", which is completely incorrect in terms of security clearances (I have clearances with State and DOD), since I know people who have various level clearances who were born in another country (for example one I know was born and raised in Vietnam for 10 years, and for the past 12 has been a US Citizen. He currently holds a DOD Secret clearance). If you look at the DOD adjucation guidelines for clearances, as long as you can prove to their satisfaction that you have no foreign influences on your decisions, you can be granted one. Perhaps its slightly different for the uniformed services (though I am completely sure it is not, as I know several former foreign nationals who became US Citizens and joined various services as an officer (which for all the ways of getting comissioned that I know of, requires a minimum of a Secret to complete the process)).
You forgot a country on your list. If that area does experience the proliferation that is expected, Japan would probably join the club as well. Their little fast breeders leave so much plutonium around that the current estimate I have heard was less than 18 months. Once you have the fissionable material its just a fairly simple matter to develope the weapons.
You don't actually have a clearance do you? Because there are enough errors in your statements that I almost thought for a second that you were trying to drop misinformation out there. From the silly comment about a clearance "degrading" to who can get clearances (hint, I know a number of non-native born American citizens who hold various clearances) to the route that classified data can take when being transferred between machines (hint, there have been some innovations in the past few years that make your statements incorrect).
Another fellow suffer of the NMCI plague.. They are trying to choke down my base right now (I however will be transitioning to another federal agency before they get to me... Call me a NMCI refugee). The best part is that the genius's chose a R&D base as their first victim, Pax River(NAVAIR). I still know think they have everything right there. I cannot figure out why they didn't start with the easier stuff and then work their way up to the hard stuff.
Though I think that you do have a slightly skewed perception, there is a number of groups in the Navy for whom NMCI works perfectly well, you are only giving the R&D side of the arguement. But the lack of planning to account for that group was just short of criminal. Not quite the disaster that you are presenting though (most of the Navy will not need the legacy network to operate, just the R&D), more like a billion or 2 hobbling, not the whole number.
You also have to consider who currently can put up orbital assets, its a pretty small club. Most of them are nominal friendlies (EU, Japan, Israel), not significant threats (Russia, who we want to keep their surveilence assets so that they dont accidentally think they are under attack), or or countries that would be nightmares to get in conflict with (India and China, you dont want countries with populations in excess of 1 billion (and countless nationals in your own country) to be at war with you). So this really comes down to the fact that everyone with assets up there is not on the list of places that we are going to poke (hell, all but one (Japan, and they could fix that REAL (18 months or less) quick) are nuclear powers). If you are using Bush's current foreign policy, you can see he is trying his best not to poke the one country in the "Axis of Evil" that has known nuclear weapons (we have pulled/pulling our forces off the DMZ, have stated that we intend further troop reductions in South Korea, and pulled to a more defensive posture in handling them (keeping SM-3 (exo-atmospheric interceptor) armed warships off the coast to protect US mainland, deployment of the missiles to the BMD site in Alaska)(not that I have much faith in either system, they are of questionable effectiveness). Its one thing to pick a fight wiht a country that cannot crisp your cities, its another if they can(basically the military doesn't like fair fights if they can help it, it's so much better if you can roll up your opponents with minimal risk to yourself).
Under current assumptions, attacks on military orbital infrastructure is basically on par with attacking US military forces deployed abroad, and can assume that other countries handle things the same way, and given the facts above I do not see anything happening in this arena, even if Bush gets 4 more years.
No, what is truely unacceptable is not planning for in the slightest. If you do not plan for something happening, you tend to get caught flat-footed and waste precious time (and in the modern world of combat this is very short indeed). War's are generally dirty, and anyone with the capability to take out orbital infrastructure is likely to plan (and even *gasp* build) systems to protect their infrastructure and take out the enemies assets. If you win the people who lose are not likely to complain that you didn't play "fair". If the strategists in the Pentagon aren't planning for these type of events, then they are not doing their job. I know enough about US military doctrine to know that these plans would only be carried out in the event of open warfare.
If UN Inspectors tried to come near any US military WMD (which in this case is mainly Nuclear, the chemical weapons are in the process of being destroyed), there would be a few less UN Inspectors the next day. The men and women charged with security of those weapons take their job VERY seriously, one could almost say with deadly seriousness.
Though one may note that for anyone with more than one machine the economics of the choice changed with the new multiple account discount they are offering. If you aleady have one machine, then the logic of buying another machine and getting a Lifetime pass are very questionable ($5 a month vs $300 lifetime cost calls it into doubt)
They do get bonuses, just not the awe-inspiring ones that you find in the private sector. And the SES (the really high level officials) can head all the way up to 175k + bonuses. Though the talk of financial discipline is poorly timed, as this is the "use it or lose it" period for the DOD, which is the one main point of time when that is not necessarily true.
I think if you do a trend analysis you will find that the trend of civilians casualties (in US engagements) is on a downswing from the height (which was probably around WWII....). And you are right, no matter how hard you try, in war, some non-combatants are are going to die, there is no such thing as a totally accurate weapon. How many of those would have died if they had continued to live under the previous regime? Or under those oh so civilized sanctions that seem to be the favored tactic (how many Iraqi's died from the the UN Sanctioned sanctions?). I will give you props for at least acknowlaging that there are cases where war is the correct option.
Unfamiliar with the concept of representative democracy? The whole point of the system is for the people to select representatives who would work full time to make decisions, and the people sanction those decisions by selecting those who make them. While a small group makes the decisions, the general public is accountable for those actions as they were the ones who selected the leaders.
If the public feels they choose wrongly, they can correct that by recalling those leaders or selecting new ones in the next election cycle.
Silly person. Do you really think that even if the Democrats win that DHS is going to die? A tool such as DHS is useful to either group that is in power. Why would either side willingly destroy an organization that they can easily bend to their specific purposes?
If you really think that Software Engineering = "Code Writing" than obviously you have never dealt with truly serious systems (ie, ones where a lot of money are involved, or ones where if you make a mistake in the process, there is a good chance that someone is going to die as a result). Your bastardized view of SE pretty much shows you haven't, because those who have dealt with those sort of technologies know the importance of the whole process and lifecycle that surrounds systems like these.
Code Writing = Software Engineering... It was lucky that I wasnt drinking anything at the time, it would have spurted out with the laughter as I read that statement.
I know on some level I have been holding off purchasing a new machine until D3 and HL2 became available, so I can imagine that others are doing so as well.
Enviromentalist extremists are best left unheard and/or shot at.
I want to place my vote for the latter, as from my POV these people will not be happy until humanity dies off as a race, and I would like to volunteer them to be first in line.
BOINC on Tivo? The words "like hell" come to mind (not that it can't be done). I want my Tivo's doing nothing but their very critical task of recording and deliverinf Daniels' digital prozak. I have enough problems with the damn cable box crashing periodically (thanks Cox Communications!), the last thing I need is for the Tivo to have some reason to crash too.
This would be because we often play central american teams for a lot of our games, and those have a bad habit of turning into home games for the visitors, not for the US. Thats the same reason we don't get many here in Washington DC anymore (El Salvador, Costa Rica, etc have all turned into unpleasant situations if you were a US fan). Thats why you will find more games in the heartland and colder US cities, to make sure that the team gets one good home game. (I always feel sorry for the players who have to go to those countries, the treatment they generally receive is downright awful)
soccer in America*
Don't bet on soccer in the US (and I say this as a USMNT and MLS (DC United) fan. 9K people at a World Cup qualification game..... and about a 1/3 were supporting the Grenada team. Really bloody sad, that we cannot put together a good crowd for this game.
You forgot North Korea...
American Express used to (still does? I am at work and for some reason, my network admins have decided that is a site I cannot reach....). They would give you a unique CC number each time to use, and it would be single use only. Pretty spiffy.
At a Harry Potter movie showing? Somehow "date movie" doesn't seem to be an appropriate label for it.