I'm not trying to judge the FSF sys admin at all. I _am_ making a statement about the Slashdot community however -- regardless of whether someone has complete information, if it's a Windows problem, there are NO excuses...but since this is a linux-related problem (obviously not directly related to the kernel) no one wants to rush to judgement.
My only conclusion is that there are some hypocrites that post here (and I'm not refering to you;-))
While I agree with the premise of the post, this is sort of thing that would get flamed to hell and back if the thread dealt with a Microsoft security breach (case in point, see yesterday's discussion about the RPC worm). According to that thread, being overworked, underpaid, or anything else is not an excuse for having an unpatched machine.
If you're having problems with a PCMCIA NIC, Slack may not even recognize the PCMCIA slots...I have a Dell Inspiron and the Slack 9 install couldn't make sense of the cards.
Truth be told, on the three occaisions I've had to use OSX - I was also confused by it as well for the same reasons.
I think most people might have some issues using OS X (or any flavour of Mac). OS X has different window controls, different keyboard shortcuts, and no concept of a "Start Menu". Then there's the lack of a default right mouse button (and before you claim I don't know what I'm talking about, I know the option key provides that menu _and_ you can use a three button mouse with OS X). I would guess that KDE or Gnome could beat OS X in usability tests if the testers had experience with Windows and little experience with Macs.
That's a good point, but even if I'm running a major distribution of GNU/Linux on a machine with only dialup connectivity, I still have to download updates. Granted, it seems like the Microsoft vulnerabilities are always much worse, but you still have to keep a linux machine up to date with patches.
Small companies have their disadvantages as well. I'm a career small company guy, but I've done consulting work for larger companies, so I've seen both sides...
It can be much harder to avoid and deal with political issues at a smaller company. If there's a good, open, honest environment, then issues are easier to deal with, but if the people there have a hard time getting on with one another, it can be really bad, as there's nowhere for you to "hide."
But, on the bright side, there's less of a chance you'll just be a code monkey at a smaller company who is constantly put on death marches with no input. But that doesn't mean that management won't be unreasonable, either. Just do your homework if you get a job offer -- really find out what type of people you'll be working with. Again, if you don't discover that another developer (or manager) at the small shop is a jerk, you're probably worse off than if it was a big place.
Hopefully the project will be run like the Tomcat project, and not like several of the other Jakarta subprojects. I use many of the smaller projects in an application now, and while the technology is good, the project management is terrible.
doesn't this violate the GPL? Even _if_ SCO could claim IP rights to linux, aren't they still obligated by the GPL to provide the source with the binaries? Can you charge extra for the source? I wouldn't think so.
I can't believe I haven't seen a M$ bash yet...this "licensing" scheme doesn't help SCO as much as it helps M$. Suddenly, PHBs see the "cost" of owning a linux system, and Windows looks much more attractive. When October rolls around, the SCO license will cost just about as much as a Windows 2000 Server license.
whatever. Just remember that Apple *does* interact with windoze well.
Have you ever had to oversee large numbers of Macs on a Windoze network? It's not pretty, though my experience is with OS 8 and 9, not OS X. But your point is well taken. Apple understood that they weren't going to take over the world (or the network), so they had to do what was necessary to sell product. If GNU/Linux is going to break into the corporate desktop market, it better play nice with Windoze.
I completely agree. I did consulting from home for about 6 months (the projects have dried up and I'm working in an office again) and I was far _more_ motivated to work at home. I was generally at my machine cranking away by 6:30am, and I've wanted to take a couple hours before or after lunch to work out, it wasn't a problem. And know that I'm in an office 8 hours a day, I'm far less motivated. The work is still very interesting to me, but I feel like I could be more productive if I was at home. Of course, try convincing your boss of that....
And credit cards are different from bank account numbers, it's a lot harder to track someone who withdraws a bunch of cash from your account than to just tell your credit card company a charge was not yours.
This isn't a concern, at least with my bank. I can set up payments from my account, but it takes 3 days to confirm the recipient, and an account number is required (you can't set up a payment to an individual). And I receive email notifications when a new payment is requested. Even if someone were to crack my username and password, there's little they can do with my money, beside transfer it between my various accounts. Sure, they can request checks or a new ATM card, but there's no access to snail mail address via the web, so they can't even divert the shipment.
Granted, I still wouldn't access my account from a public terminal, but I'm still more concerned about someone stealing my wallet than accessing my bank account online. Sure, a cracker can get my account numbers, but anyone can intercept my mail and open up my monthly statements for the same information.
well, anyone using a public terminal to do online banking should know they're taking a huge risk anyway.
To add to the other replies...do you ever pay with a credit card (especially in a restuarant)? Do you follow the clerk around to be sure they don't copy your numbers? Do you keep your bank records in a safe at home? Do you only use cash?
Doing your online banking from a public terminal is pretty stoopid. But being afraid of doing it at home (especially if you know computers and have a relatively secure setup) is silly. I'm surprised you even surf the internet, given all the nastiness out there.
SCO will not affect linux at all. Hell my whole company runs on linux and I'm not switching a damn thing till something is proven.
How big is your company? Did you actually go out and buy boxed server distros, or did you download isos? Are your workstations running linux?
If you actually bought boxed distros, that's fantastic. And if most of your workstations are running linux as well, even better. But it sounds like you (and the company) use linux because you know it works for you. You don't need the Gartner group to tell you that. So the SCO litigation won't affect companies like yours, but they will affect the large companies that are important to the growth of linux as a true enterprise business solution.
How do you deal with being sweaty all day long at work?
Again, that's a lifestyle choice;-)
Actually, my current job is the first that I've had access to a shower. At my last gig, it was a relatively flat ride, so I could limit the amount of sweat. If it was really warm, I'd use a few of those new-fangled body wipes and the bathroom sink to make myself acceptable (and that was a business casual environment).
Sadly this isn't practical for everyone, especially if you are unlucky enough to live a fair amount away from work, or have to carry things in. Sometimes getting up a couple hours earlier to bike into work just won't work.
It's actually just a lifestyle choice. I won't take a job that I can't bike to. For me, I love riding, even in heavy traffic, and my wife and I share one car and I don't want to use it to get to work. If you've got a lot of stuff to take in, get a big messenger bag, or panniers. Just make the decision to do it.
were these radical improvements implemented on linux 9.0?
Re:Okay for retro purposes
on
Slackware Turns 10
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I can't, in good faith, offer slackwear up as an option to any of my clients though. They need a world class installation and they need cutting edge features like Gnome 2.2 and Mozilla 1.4.
Download Slack 9. It's got more cutting edge software than my RedHat 8 machine at work. Gnome 2.2, KDE 3.1, Mozilla 1.4. You name it...
Re:Java is bad for our industry
on
Head First Java
·
· Score: 1
I agree, and I guess my reference is a bit dated. I've had to maintain and port legacy Perl cgi code that was obviously done by folks who learned Perl via WWW script archives.
Re:At the risk of sounding offtopic..
on
Head First Java
·
· Score: 1
Exactly. The biggest Java employer in my region isn't doing primarily web work (though it is a facet ). I think the introduction of the SWT will only make this sort thing continue, as people realize they _can_ make desktop apps with Java that aren't slow and look like crap.
Re:Java is bad for our industry
on
Head First Java
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
The dot com years produced millions of Java "programmers" that did not how to do much beyond blindly mimicing the Sun "Pet Store" J2EE example without understanding the fundamental concepts that underpin the technology.
How many other languages can you fill in the blank with? VB? C# (soon?)? Perl?
Sure there are folks who "learned" Java and really don't understand it. And sure, most of them are out of work...but calling it a "glut" is a bit of an overstatement. Most of those people won't find work in the industry. And if you're good a programmer, and work for a good company, you're still making good money these days (at least where I live).
There's a huge glut of programmers on the market with little or no experience using any other programming language other than Java.
So what if that's the only language you know? If you're a good Java programmer, what's the problem? I know a couple guys who just graduated with degrees in computer engineering. They "learned" plenty of languages in 4 years, but they only know one language well enough to use it professionally -- either C or Java.
It isn't elitist to say that computers are fairly unique and complex devices. Just because everyone uses one now, improperly for the most part, doesn't mean they should or even can magically becomes television sets with six buttons on the front.
Good point...but...then they shouldn't be sold as such. If you're going to market your computer/operating system as "easy enough for grandma to use" then it better be easy enough for grandma to use.
Products will have a development cycle that gradually make them more and more user friendly. Remember programming with punchcards? Remember the days before UIs? Computers are very much like cars and toasters and VCRs. All you're showing is an elitist attitude. You are obviously a smart person (and I don't say that sarcastically), and you enjoy having a complex machine to work with. Great. But you make up about 5% of the demographic that most software and hardware companies are designing their products for.
There is a place for complex software...there's also a place for simple software that works as advertised. There _will_ be a computer with six buttons on the front sooner rather than later, because that's what the general population wants. Not everyone is a hacker, and like I said, most companies in the industry aren't getting their profits from hackers like you (or me).
By your logic, a VCR should be just as simple to use a shampoo bottle, and thus, so should computers.
Perhaps a bit of overstatement there, eh? I don't expect my shampoo bottle to safely connect to the internet and send email. But if I purchase an operating system that claims it does that, it should do it. I don't need to understand the engineering behind the top of shampoo bottle to open it. Nor do I need a degree in electrical engineering to play a VHS tape. So why should I have to be hacker to safely send and receive emails?
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not trying to judge the FSF sys admin at all. I _am_ making a statement about the Slashdot community however -- regardless of whether someone has complete information, if it's a Windows problem, there are NO excuses...but since this is a linux-related problem (obviously not directly related to the kernel) no one wants to rush to judgement.
;-))
My only conclusion is that there are some hypocrites that post here (and I'm not refering to you
RFTA before critisizing their admin(s):
Please note the "article" is an UPDATE to the initial post, meaning some posts to this thread couldn't read the "article" before posting.
While I agree with the premise of the post, this is sort of thing that would get flamed to hell and back if the thread dealt with a Microsoft security breach (case in point, see yesterday's discussion about the RPC worm). According to that thread, being overworked, underpaid, or anything else is not an excuse for having an unpatched machine.
try slackware
If you're having problems with a PCMCIA NIC, Slack may not even recognize the PCMCIA slots...I have a Dell Inspiron and the Slack 9 install couldn't make sense of the cards.
Truth be told, on the three occaisions I've had to use OSX - I was also confused by it as well for the same reasons.
I think most people might have some issues using OS X (or any flavour of Mac). OS X has different window controls, different keyboard shortcuts, and no concept of a "Start Menu". Then there's the lack of a default right mouse button (and before you claim I don't know what I'm talking about, I know the option key provides that menu _and_ you can use a three button mouse with OS X). I would guess that KDE or Gnome could beat OS X in usability tests if the testers had experience with Windows and little experience with Macs.
That's a good point, but even if I'm running a major distribution of GNU/Linux on a machine with only dialup connectivity, I still have to download updates. Granted, it seems like the Microsoft vulnerabilities are always much worse, but you still have to keep a linux machine up to date with patches.
Small companies have their disadvantages as well. I'm a career small company guy, but I've done consulting work for larger companies, so I've seen both sides...
It can be much harder to avoid and deal with political issues at a smaller company. If there's a good, open, honest environment, then issues are easier to deal with, but if the people there have a hard time getting on with one another, it can be really bad, as there's nowhere for you to "hide."
But, on the bright side, there's less of a chance you'll just be a code monkey at a smaller company who is constantly put on death marches with no input. But that doesn't mean that management won't be unreasonable, either. Just do your homework if you get a job offer -- really find out what type of people you'll be working with. Again, if you don't discover that another developer (or manager) at the small shop is a jerk, you're probably worse off than if it was a big place.
Hopefully the project will be run like the Tomcat project, and not like several of the other Jakarta subprojects. I use many of the smaller projects in an application now, and while the technology is good, the project management is terrible.
IANAL, but...
doesn't this violate the GPL? Even _if_ SCO could claim IP rights to linux, aren't they still obligated by the GPL to provide the source with the binaries? Can you charge extra for the source? I wouldn't think so.
I can't believe I haven't seen a M$ bash yet...this "licensing" scheme doesn't help SCO as much as it helps M$. Suddenly, PHBs see the "cost" of owning a linux system, and Windows looks much more attractive. When October rolls around, the SCO license will cost just about as much as a Windows 2000 Server license.
Coincidence?
Heck, I can't figure out *why* we have to pay extra to have an unlisted number.
Ya know, that's a good point. Doesn't it make more sense to pay to get your listed? Not listing your number saves ink and paper, right?
whatever. Just remember that Apple *does* interact with windoze well.
Have you ever had to oversee large numbers of Macs on a Windoze network? It's not pretty, though my experience is with OS 8 and 9, not OS X. But your point is well taken. Apple understood that they weren't going to take over the world (or the network), so they had to do what was necessary to sell product. If GNU/Linux is going to break into the corporate desktop market, it better play nice with Windoze.
I completely agree. I did consulting from home for about 6 months (the projects have dried up and I'm working in an office again) and I was far _more_ motivated to work at home. I was generally at my machine cranking away by 6:30am, and I've wanted to take a couple hours before or after lunch to work out, it wasn't a problem. And know that I'm in an office 8 hours a day, I'm far less motivated. The work is still very interesting to me, but I feel like I could be more productive if I was at home. Of course, try convincing your boss of that....
And credit cards are different from bank account numbers, it's a lot harder to track someone who withdraws a bunch of cash from your account than to just tell your credit card company a charge was not yours.
This isn't a concern, at least with my bank. I can set up payments from my account, but it takes 3 days to confirm the recipient, and an account number is required (you can't set up a payment to an individual). And I receive email notifications when a new payment is requested. Even if someone were to crack my username and password, there's little they can do with my money, beside transfer it between my various accounts. Sure, they can request checks or a new ATM card, but there's no access to snail mail address via the web, so they can't even divert the shipment.
Granted, I still wouldn't access my account from a public terminal, but I'm still more concerned about someone stealing my wallet than accessing my bank account online. Sure, a cracker can get my account numbers, but anyone can intercept my mail and open up my monthly statements for the same information.
well, anyone using a public terminal to do online banking should know they're taking a huge risk anyway.
To add to the other replies...do you ever pay with a credit card (especially in a restuarant)? Do you follow the clerk around to be sure they don't copy your numbers? Do you keep your bank records in a safe at home? Do you only use cash?
Doing your online banking from a public terminal is pretty stoopid. But being afraid of doing it at home (especially if you know computers and have a relatively secure setup) is silly. I'm surprised you even surf the internet, given all the nastiness out there.
SCO will not affect linux at all. Hell my whole company runs on linux and I'm not switching a damn thing till something is proven.
How big is your company? Did you actually go out and buy boxed server distros, or did you download isos? Are your workstations running linux?
If you actually bought boxed distros, that's fantastic. And if most of your workstations are running linux as well, even better. But it sounds like you (and the company) use linux because you know it works for you. You don't need the Gartner group to tell you that. So the SCO litigation won't affect companies like yours, but they will affect the large companies that are important to the growth of linux as a true enterprise business solution.
How do you deal with being sweaty all day long at work?
Again, that's a lifestyle choice ;-)
Actually, my current job is the first that I've had access to a shower. At my last gig, it was a relatively flat ride, so I could limit the amount of sweat. If it was really warm, I'd use a few of those new-fangled body wipes and the bathroom sink to make myself acceptable (and that was a business casual environment).
Sadly this isn't practical for everyone, especially if you are unlucky enough to live a fair amount away from work, or have to carry things in. Sometimes getting up a couple hours earlier to bike into work just won't work.
It's actually just a lifestyle choice. I won't take a job that I can't bike to. For me, I love riding, even in heavy traffic, and my wife and I share one car and I don't want to use it to get to work. If you've got a lot of stuff to take in, get a big messenger bag, or panniers. Just make the decision to do it.
were these radical improvements implemented on linux 9.0?
I can't, in good faith, offer slackwear up as an option to any of my clients though. They need a world class installation and they need cutting edge features like Gnome 2.2 and Mozilla 1.4.
Download Slack 9. It's got more cutting edge software than my RedHat 8 machine at work. Gnome 2.2, KDE 3.1, Mozilla 1.4. You name it...
I agree, and I guess my reference is a bit dated. I've had to maintain and port legacy Perl cgi code that was obviously done by folks who learned Perl via WWW script archives.
Exactly. The biggest Java employer in my region isn't doing primarily web work (though it is a facet ). I think the introduction of the SWT will only make this sort thing continue, as people realize they _can_ make desktop apps with Java that aren't slow and look like crap.
The dot com years produced millions of Java "programmers" that did not how to do much beyond blindly mimicing the Sun "Pet Store" J2EE example without understanding the fundamental concepts that underpin the technology.
How many other languages can you fill in the blank with? VB? C# (soon?)? Perl?
Sure there are folks who "learned" Java and really don't understand it. And sure, most of them are out of work...but calling it a "glut" is a bit of an overstatement. Most of those people won't find work in the industry. And if you're good a programmer, and work for a good company, you're still making good money these days (at least where I live).
There's a huge glut of programmers on the market with little or no experience using any other programming language other than Java.
So what if that's the only language you know? If you're a good Java programmer, what's the problem? I know a couple guys who just graduated with degrees in computer engineering. They "learned" plenty of languages in 4 years, but they only know one language well enough to use it professionally -- either C or Java.
are you bruce eckel? if you are, great, otherwise, you should indicate that you're quoting verbatim from eckel's site.
It isn't elitist to say that computers are fairly unique and complex devices. Just because everyone uses one now, improperly for the most part, doesn't mean they should or even can magically becomes television sets with six buttons on the front.
Good point...but...then they shouldn't be sold as such. If you're going to market your computer/operating system as "easy enough for grandma to use" then it better be easy enough for grandma to use.
Products will have a development cycle that gradually make them more and more user friendly. Remember programming with punchcards? Remember the days before UIs? Computers are very much like cars and toasters and VCRs. All you're showing is an elitist attitude. You are obviously a smart person (and I don't say that sarcastically), and you enjoy having a complex machine to work with. Great. But you make up about 5% of the demographic that most software and hardware companies are designing their products for.
There is a place for complex software...there's also a place for simple software that works as advertised. There _will_ be a computer with six buttons on the front sooner rather than later, because that's what the general population wants. Not everyone is a hacker, and like I said, most companies in the industry aren't getting their profits from hackers like you (or me).
By your logic, a VCR should be just as simple to use a shampoo bottle, and thus, so should computers.
Perhaps a bit of overstatement there, eh? I don't expect my shampoo bottle to safely connect to the internet and send email. But if I purchase an operating system that claims it does that, it should do it. I don't need to understand the engineering behind the top of shampoo bottle to open it. Nor do I need a degree in electrical engineering to play a VHS tape. So why should I have to be hacker to safely send and receive emails?