One could make the argument that KDE is doing the same thing with Konqueror.
And one would be wrong. Last time I checked, KDE is not an operating system.
The reason that nobody's crying foul on that, though, is because there are better browsers out there and people will go find them.
When you buy a computer from an OEM, they have Windows and IE pre=installed. Microsoft made sure of that. Sure, people could go out and find another browser (better ones too). But why should they? They have one built-in. Even if they did install another one, they couldn't get rid of IE.
Why are we rehashing all of this yet again? This is old news. The DOJ realized what they did was wrong, yet some people just don't get it.
OK, so Gates says that they won't force people to use it. Uh-huh. As with the EULA, he reserves the right to change his mind at a later date of his choosing.
So in 5 years, all AMD and Intel chips will have DRM enabled, and Windows will have it on by default. There is absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening. Now in this scenario, if you find a way to disable the DRM, either in the chip or in the software, you can be prosecuted under the DMCA. Or maybe detained without a trial under the Patriot Act as a threat to national security. (if they succeed in getting it made permanent)
Maybe I am creating a "worst case" scenario, but it is certainly plausible. Who would have thought 5 years ago that the US would be able to hold a few hundred people captive without a trial. Or that a college student would be sued for creating a search engine. Or a programmer would be arrested and held in jail for speaking at a security conference. Or a printer cartridge manufacturer would be sued because they are making generic cartridges. Or any of the other BS that has come out of the DMCA. Some people said "Oh, if the DMCA get abused, it will be repealed because the people won't stand for it." Here is a hint: it has been abused repeatedly, and it is nowhere near being repealed. Things are getting worse.
Towards that end, locking things down can be a good thing, preventing users from clogging up PC's with dancing gorillas and other crap.
I am firmly convinced that even though people can't figure out to do the simplest tasks on their PC, they will *always* figure out how to get dancing gorillas on there.
I think you can take off your aluminum foil hat for now, the Boogeyman of Redmond isn't really hiding under your bed...
Of course not - they are behind Windows.
badum-tshhh. Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.
Me: We are ALL part of this society, and the only way to change it is by starting with yourself.
You; OK, now that I've started with myself, let me continue, with others.
If all you can change is yourself, why are you bothering to tell us all about it? Just change yourself.
I can't change anyone else, it is up to them to do it. I can relate my experiences, and hopefully make people think about things that they normally don't consider. I can only START with myself, and once I am comfortable with myself I can try to get other people to change. (but they have to do it themselves) Why am I bothering to tell you about it? Because this is a big forum. Because I was commenting on a story that seemed to me to be the battle of two evils, and one side was being cheered. IMO, neither side deserved that.
People are allowed to sue each other because otherwise they'd settle their arguments by beating each other with sticks. Which mode of settlement seems more reasonable to you?
This is an ignorant and very uncivilized statement, assuming that these are the only two ways to settle arguments.
Of course, that is really how things are in the US, the "haves" choose one method, the "have nots" choose the other.
Laying up the smack-down on those that deserve it is a legitimate way to improve a society. Ignoring the problem points will not make any improvement.
OK, who determines "who deserves it"? Why are the prisons in this country so full? We imprison the largest percentage of our population, compared to everyone else on the planet. Are our streets safer? No. Have we improved our society through these actions? Superficially, yes, because you could argue that all those big bad criminals are off the street. But we, as a society, created those criminals. It is only getting worse.
We have a society of the haves and have-nots, and we perpetuate it daily.
Some stuff does not stop simply by wishing it will.
And things don't stop by perpetuating and repeating the same mistakes! That lawyer implied that suing people was addictive because he got some money and a little perceived justice. Do you think by more lawsuits, our legal system has gotten better in this country? Maybe for the wealthy, and for companies. That is why laws like the DMCA exist, because the people don't have the power to stop them. The guy with the most money wins. You know all those lawsuits against the tobacco companies? They are in appeals, and probably will be until the people who are suing them die.
To your "point", of course nothing changes by wishing it so. That is why people should change their own ways instead of trying to "get theirs", and they should do it for the good of our society. You can't change all of society, you can only change yourself.
Seriously, which is worse in this country, the annoying-ass advertisers/marketers or the legal system?
At first I was all for this attorney, but then I read his comment about filing in small claims court being "addictive". You know what? Instead of enacting revenge, and passing on all of the bad feelings that you accumulate, why not try to change things by starting with yourself?
Ironically, people who are angry all the time piss me off! Hey, the marketer had it coming, but do you think the $500 the lawyer got really did anything? If the guy is cold calling people, he doesn't have many scruples, and will get that $500 back somehow. He didn't learn any lesson. Now you might think that the solution is that EVERYONE should sue him, but it isn't. We've created this money driven society ourselves, so who can blame the people who try to capitalize on it. What, you think you are above it? Have you ever cheated on your tax returns, tried to screw some company because of a pricing error, voided a warranty on a product and tried to return it? Even if you have never been taken in by greed, now is not the time to start. Hey, it's tough, I know. But I have finally just become so sick of it that I am trying not to be like that. But in the U.S. it is very hard, because we are all about money money money, consume consume consume.
We are ALL part of this society, and the only way to change it is by starting with yourself. I am not about to cheer a lawyer for suing a telemarketer, any more than I would cheer Hilary Rosen for kicking Bill Gates in the nuts.
Canadians, on the other hand, just refuse to live like that. The first step Canadians do: be friendly to others. Respect the difference, accept other's value. No matter how inefficient or stupid Canadian governments sometimes are, Canadians still can live peacefully.
I swear, this is a true story, and still cracks me up today. My wife and I took our honeymoon through the Canadian Rockies (hiking, 2-day train ride, whale watching, etc). It was really awesome, and everyone was really nice. As the train pulled out of Vancouver, there was graffiti on the overpasses. Just your normal tags, people's names and whatnot. As we started to get to the edge of Vancouver, there was a big graffiti mural on one of the overpasses. What did it say?
"Welcome to Vancouver"
Even the damn graffiti is polite! I still can't believe it, and it cracks me up every time I think of it. I wish I would have gotten a picture of it.
Community can be a good or bad thing you know
on
SCO DOS'ed
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· Score: 1
Listen to yourself: You're advocating the use of an OS based on the who is using it.
I'll never understand this way of thinking.. A good product will always attact good and bad people in mass.. Let's just imagine for second that everyone listened to the BSD advocates, and switched to BSD. Where are you going to turn when the idiots follow again? Is there some section in the BSD license that makes it impossible for the kiddies to use it or something?
How are you going to prevent people you don't like from using something that is useful?
More imporantly, why do you even care who else uses your software? After all, it is your software.
Actually, it is valid reasoning. Linux is based on the community aspect of it. If you need help, you go online and find it. Be it IRC, or newsgroups, or message boards. If it is overrun by dumbasses using leetspeak, bragging about "their" OS and how much Micro$oft 5uXX0r5, then some people (especially businesses) will definitely be turned off. I know I am turned off by those people, but I still choose to use it. Not everyone would come to that same conclusion.
If the community is one of Linux's strengths, it is also one of its weaknesses.
Why? Because record executives have children, and those children have to eat! They need clothes, and books, and the necessitites of life. But because of online piracy, there are thousands of starving children in this country.
Oh, won't someone think of the children!
(that intense beeping you hear is your sarcasm detector)
Does anyone here recall when Apple released the iPod? The story here on slashdot contained two sentences after the submission. One of which simply read (and I quote): "Lame."
And I think without the success of the iPod, Apple would have never had the confidence to go ahead with iTunes.
BTW, it's just as costly, if not more, to have to rebuild your linux kernel, SSL, apache webserver, or samba installation when a bug is found there.
Actually, just the act of patching may roughly equal. But UN-patching a system can be done very easily on a *nix based system. How do you UN-patch a Windows based system?
Also, when I rebuild apache, I know what I am affecting. When I install a Windows patch, I cross my fingers.
Let's say we are in bizarro world, and they do manage to claim ownership to frames.
What is more likely, that people will pay a bunch of royalties to SBC and keep using frames, or just redesign their pages without them?
I know there is the issue of back-monies that SBC thinks they would be entitled to, but I think they would have to give reasonable time to either pay up or quit using their patented whiz-bang technology. I think we can live without frames, if that is really what SBC wants.
The Gigi FX5200P's blue board should nicely match Albatron's most recent motherboards, which sport the same color scheme.
*breathe of relief* What would I have done if my video card and motherboard didn't match?!
This is really funny - until you realize that people are actually caring about that stuff. If you would have told me 2 years ago that it matters what color lighted fan you put in your case, I would have laughed at you. Hmm, come to think of it, I would laugh at you today.
I know someone who was waiting for the "purple version" of some motherboard because it looked cool. Geek Chic, it is a very tragic thing.
I don't think that voiding the warranty of the ink system is unreasonable if you install some third party ink - if it clogs the system, how is that the printer manufacturer's fault? I suppose same concept is if the imitation ink cartridge leaks all over your printer.
Voiding the warranty is something they can do without a chip in the cardridge.
Of course, your point stands, that HP could code the cartridges for a certain time, but I think at that point consumer groups would bitch.
Ahh, but here is the kicker. How would people know what the chip is encoded to do? If they reverse-engineer it, they could be sued under the DMCA for bypassing an electronic security device. I would have thought that sounded insane and impossible until Lexmark did it.
To beg the question is to presuppose the conclusion to your argument. It does not mean a question that begs to be asked.
Dang, I knew that, I just forgot. (and I am a strict their/there/they're, your/you're, etc. person) But I always thought that the misuse of the phrase made more sense than the proper use.
The article says that the expiration date is 4 1/2 years after the cartridge is put into the printer. Surely, more than 99.9% of users will run out of ink well before the expiration date.
OK, I'll buy that. So why go to the expense of including an expiration chip in it then? Think about this for a second.
This also begs this question - Have they been testing this technology since 1999? Not likely. It is most likely a programmable chip. So maybe in the next batch of cartridges, they can change the expiration date to 6 months, and make it behave like it just ran out of ink. The end user will just think they ran out, and buy another cartridge.
I used to think I was a little paranoid, but then the DMCA gets passed, and greedy f'ing companies try to pull this kind of crap, and I think maybe I wasn't paranoid enough.
Where can I get a CD that I put in my computer, click the appropriate "Yes/Ok" buttons a few times, and have Linux on my computer, with a web browser and a word processor, that all my hardware automatically works with, including my internet connection through my router to my cable modem, as well as my video and sound cards, that automagically downloads any updates I need, and works with anything I happen to plug into the USB port?
Where would I get something like that?
This is a trick question - it doesn't exist.
The very fact that I don't know whether something like that exists, much less where to get it, is exactly why people use windows.
Whoa whoa whoa. Are you claiming that Windows does all of the above? Hmm, let's see...
Where can I get a CD that I put in my computer, click the appropriate "Yes/Ok" buttons a few times, and have Linux on my computer,
Sorry, doesn't work like that with Windows. Now you may get lucky with an installation and have it work, but I have seen and been involved with my fair share of nightmare Windows installs. Most likely the average user will buy a system with Windows on it. That has nothing to do with the merits of the OS.
with a web browser
Windows - yep. Linux - yep, and most likely more than one
and a word processor
Windows - nope. You have to buy that separately. Whoops, I mean license that separately. Linux - yep (probably one or two different ones, depending on distro)
that all my hardware automatically works with,
How do you think hardware works with an OS? Automatically? Hardly. Vendors create drivers for Windows, not the other way around. Don't praise the OS for that, that is a result of years of holding the OS monopoly. But times are changing, and most Linux distros will work with most of your hardware. Of course, I am not sure what you mean my hardware either. If you are talking internal PC hardware, Linux has you covered.
including my internet connection through my router to my cable modem
Windows - check. Linux - check. These both assume that you have some kind of standard setup.
as well as my video and sound cards,
Notoriously bad on both systems. But Windows has the driver edge because of being the defacto standard. But I find it funny how when drivers don't work on Linux they blame Linux, but when they have problems on Windows, they blame the hardware.
that automagically downloads any updates I need
If you seriously want this, then you have bigger problems.
and works with anything I happen to plug into the USB port?
Again, you are probably talking about 3rd party software/drivers, not Windows stuff.
But if you want one CD that does all that, check out Knoppix. Sorry, there aren't any yes/no menus to click through, but it doesn't install on your system either. I am pretty sure it will have everything you want. You won't find anything like it in the Windows world, that is for sure.
It's called colonialism.
Back in the day, the colonists "brought a new religion and civilization to the heathens in Africa"... and exploited the natural resources.
Now The United Corporations of America goes and "liberates the Iraqi from despotism in order to instore a democracy"... and exploit the natural resources. Nothing changed, just the name and the countries doing it.
And yet, the religion remains the same. How interesting.
Please PLEASE give some credit to the rest of us... the hubris and arrogance is getting intolerable. Not everyone harbours contempt for his neighbour as a potential threat or source of suspicion.
Please use the correct terminology when referring to Americans. Our hubris and arrogance all stems from our ignorance. So refer to us as "ignorant", thank you very much.
If we look that bad from the outside, imagine what we look like from the inside.
Slashdot Mirror
And one would be wrong. Last time I checked, KDE is not an operating system.
The reason that nobody's crying foul on that, though, is because there are better browsers out there and people will go find them.
When you buy a computer from an OEM, they have Windows and IE pre=installed. Microsoft made sure of that. Sure, people could go out and find another browser (better ones too). But why should they? They have one built-in. Even if they did install another one, they couldn't get rid of IE.
Why are we rehashing all of this yet again? This is old news. The DOJ realized what they did was wrong, yet some people just don't get it.
Precisely.
Postscript: pounding penis to pornography, provided by pop-up prince, prevalent among programmers posting postulations on slashdot.
So in 5 years, all AMD and Intel chips will have DRM enabled, and Windows will have it on by default. There is absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening. Now in this scenario, if you find a way to disable the DRM, either in the chip or in the software, you can be prosecuted under the DMCA. Or maybe detained without a trial under the Patriot Act as a threat to national security. (if they succeed in getting it made permanent)
Maybe I am creating a "worst case" scenario, but it is certainly plausible. Who would have thought 5 years ago that the US would be able to hold a few hundred people captive without a trial. Or that a college student would be sued for creating a search engine. Or a programmer would be arrested and held in jail for speaking at a security conference. Or a printer cartridge manufacturer would be sued because they are making generic cartridges. Or any of the other BS that has come out of the DMCA. Some people said "Oh, if the DMCA get abused, it will be repealed because the people won't stand for it." Here is a hint: it has been abused repeatedly, and it is nowhere near being repealed. Things are getting worse.
Vancouver is not in the Canadian Rockies.
Very good. Now let's see how long it takes you to figure out why your previous conclusion that I was whale watching in the mountains makes no sense.
Better yet... don't.
Please note that I do not promote the killing of anyone. The RIAA is a figurehead, and my comments against it are merely symbolic.
I am firmly convinced that even though people can't figure out to do the simplest tasks on their PC, they will *always* figure out how to get dancing gorillas on there.
I think you can take off your aluminum foil hat for now, the Boogeyman of Redmond isn't really hiding under your bed...
Of course not - they are behind Windows.
badum-tshhh. Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.
I seriously hope this was meant as a joke, but sadly enough, it probably wasn't.
And the fact that you and others don't see why this is a sad statement, is the reason the US is the way it is.
You; OK, now that I've started with myself, let me continue, with others.
If all you can change is yourself, why are you bothering to tell us all about it? Just change yourself.
I can't change anyone else, it is up to them to do it. I can relate my experiences, and hopefully make people think about things that they normally don't consider. I can only START with myself, and once I am comfortable with myself I can try to get other people to change. (but they have to do it themselves) Why am I bothering to tell you about it? Because this is a big forum. Because I was commenting on a story that seemed to me to be the battle of two evils, and one side was being cheered. IMO, neither side deserved that.
You should look on a map to see where Vancouver is...
This is an ignorant and very uncivilized statement, assuming that these are the only two ways to settle arguments.
Of course, that is really how things are in the US, the "haves" choose one method, the "have nots" choose the other.
OK, who determines "who deserves it"? Why are the prisons in this country so full? We imprison the largest percentage of our population, compared to everyone else on the planet. Are our streets safer? No. Have we improved our society through these actions? Superficially, yes, because you could argue that all those big bad criminals are off the street. But we, as a society, created those criminals. It is only getting worse. We have a society of the haves and have-nots, and we perpetuate it daily.
Some stuff does not stop simply by wishing it will.
And things don't stop by perpetuating and repeating the same mistakes! That lawyer implied that suing people was addictive because he got some money and a little perceived justice. Do you think by more lawsuits, our legal system has gotten better in this country? Maybe for the wealthy, and for companies. That is why laws like the DMCA exist, because the people don't have the power to stop them. The guy with the most money wins. You know all those lawsuits against the tobacco companies? They are in appeals, and probably will be until the people who are suing them die.
To your "point", of course nothing changes by wishing it so. That is why people should change their own ways instead of trying to "get theirs", and they should do it for the good of our society. You can't change all of society, you can only change yourself.
At first I was all for this attorney, but then I read his comment about filing in small claims court being "addictive". You know what? Instead of enacting revenge, and passing on all of the bad feelings that you accumulate, why not try to change things by starting with yourself?
Ironically, people who are angry all the time piss me off! Hey, the marketer had it coming, but do you think the $500 the lawyer got really did anything? If the guy is cold calling people, he doesn't have many scruples, and will get that $500 back somehow. He didn't learn any lesson. Now you might think that the solution is that EVERYONE should sue him, but it isn't. We've created this money driven society ourselves, so who can blame the people who try to capitalize on it. What, you think you are above it? Have you ever cheated on your tax returns, tried to screw some company because of a pricing error, voided a warranty on a product and tried to return it? Even if you have never been taken in by greed, now is not the time to start. Hey, it's tough, I know. But I have finally just become so sick of it that I am trying not to be like that. But in the U.S. it is very hard, because we are all about money money money, consume consume consume.
We are ALL part of this society, and the only way to change it is by starting with yourself. I am not about to cheer a lawyer for suing a telemarketer, any more than I would cheer Hilary Rosen for kicking Bill Gates in the nuts.
I swear, this is a true story, and still cracks me up today. My wife and I took our honeymoon through the Canadian Rockies (hiking, 2-day train ride, whale watching, etc). It was really awesome, and everyone was really nice. As the train pulled out of Vancouver, there was graffiti on the overpasses. Just your normal tags, people's names and whatnot. As we started to get to the edge of Vancouver, there was a big graffiti mural on one of the overpasses. What did it say?
"Welcome to Vancouver"
Even the damn graffiti is polite! I still can't believe it, and it cracks me up every time I think of it. I wish I would have gotten a picture of it.
I'll never understand this way of thinking.. A good product will always attact good and bad people in mass.. Let's just imagine for second that everyone listened to the BSD advocates, and switched to BSD. Where are you going to turn when the idiots follow again? Is there some section in the BSD license that makes it impossible for the kiddies to use it or something?
How are you going to prevent people you don't like from using something that is useful? More imporantly, why do you even care who else uses your software? After all, it is your software.
Actually, it is valid reasoning. Linux is based on the community aspect of it. If you need help, you go online and find it. Be it IRC, or newsgroups, or message boards. If it is overrun by dumbasses using leetspeak, bragging about "their" OS and how much Micro$oft 5uXX0r5, then some people (especially businesses) will definitely be turned off. I know I am turned off by those people, but I still choose to use it. Not everyone would come to that same conclusion.
If the community is one of Linux's strengths, it is also one of its weaknesses.
Oh, won't someone think of the children!
(that intense beeping you hear is your sarcasm detector)
And I think without the success of the iPod, Apple would have never had the confidence to go ahead with iTunes.
Actually, just the act of patching may roughly equal. But UN-patching a system can be done very easily on a *nix based system. How do you UN-patch a Windows based system?
Also, when I rebuild apache, I know what I am affecting. When I install a Windows patch, I cross my fingers.
What is more likely, that people will pay a bunch of royalties to SBC and keep using frames, or just redesign their pages without them?
I know there is the issue of back-monies that SBC thinks they would be entitled to, but I think they would have to give reasonable time to either pay up or quit using their patented whiz-bang technology. I think we can live without frames, if that is really what SBC wants.
This is really funny - until you realize that people are actually caring about that stuff. If you would have told me 2 years ago that it matters what color lighted fan you put in your case, I would have laughed at you. Hmm, come to think of it, I would laugh at you today.
I know someone who was waiting for the "purple version" of some motherboard because it looked cool. Geek Chic, it is a very tragic thing.
Voiding the warranty is something they can do without a chip in the cardridge.
Of course, your point stands, that HP could code the cartridges for a certain time, but I think at that point consumer groups would bitch.
Ahh, but here is the kicker. How would people know what the chip is encoded to do? If they reverse-engineer it, they could be sued under the DMCA for bypassing an electronic security device. I would have thought that sounded insane and impossible until Lexmark did it.
Dang, I knew that, I just forgot. (and I am a strict their/there/they're, your/you're, etc. person) But I always thought that the misuse of the phrase made more sense than the proper use.
OK, I'll buy that. So why go to the expense of including an expiration chip in it then? Think about this for a second.
This also begs this question - Have they been testing this technology since 1999? Not likely. It is most likely a programmable chip. So maybe in the next batch of cartridges, they can change the expiration date to 6 months, and make it behave like it just ran out of ink. The end user will just think they ran out, and buy another cartridge.
I used to think I was a little paranoid, but then the DMCA gets passed, and greedy f'ing companies try to pull this kind of crap, and I think maybe I wasn't paranoid enough.
Where would I get something like that?
This is a trick question - it doesn't exist.
The very fact that I don't know whether something like that exists, much less where to get it, is exactly why people use windows.
Whoa whoa whoa. Are you claiming that Windows does all of the above? Hmm, let's see...
Where can I get a CD that I put in my computer, click the appropriate "Yes/Ok" buttons a few times, and have Linux on my computer,
Sorry, doesn't work like that with Windows. Now you may get lucky with an installation and have it work, but I have seen and been involved with my fair share of nightmare Windows installs. Most likely the average user will buy a system with Windows on it. That has nothing to do with the merits of the OS.
with a web browser
Windows - yep. Linux - yep, and most likely more than one
and a word processor
Windows - nope. You have to buy that separately. Whoops, I mean license that separately. Linux - yep (probably one or two different ones, depending on distro)
that all my hardware automatically works with,
How do you think hardware works with an OS? Automatically? Hardly. Vendors create drivers for Windows, not the other way around. Don't praise the OS for that, that is a result of years of holding the OS monopoly. But times are changing, and most Linux distros will work with most of your hardware. Of course, I am not sure what you mean my hardware either. If you are talking internal PC hardware, Linux has you covered.
including my internet connection through my router to my cable modem
Windows - check. Linux - check. These both assume that you have some kind of standard setup.
as well as my video and sound cards,
Notoriously bad on both systems. But Windows has the driver edge because of being the defacto standard. But I find it funny how when drivers don't work on Linux they blame Linux, but when they have problems on Windows, they blame the hardware.
that automagically downloads any updates I need
If you seriously want this, then you have bigger problems.
and works with anything I happen to plug into the USB port?
Again, you are probably talking about 3rd party software/drivers, not Windows stuff.
But if you want one CD that does all that, check out Knoppix. Sorry, there aren't any yes/no menus to click through, but it doesn't install on your system either. I am pretty sure it will have everything you want. You won't find anything like it in the Windows world, that is for sure.
And yet, the religion remains the same. How interesting.
Please use the correct terminology when referring to Americans. Our hubris and arrogance all stems from our ignorance. So refer to us as "ignorant", thank you very much. If we look that bad from the outside, imagine what we look like from the inside.