Slashdot Mirror
Gates on Digital Restrictions Technologies
doormat writes "According to this article, Gates says you can choose not to use the new secure PC technology that they're developing. Is that going to be a choice like being a vegetarian, or like choosing not to eat at all?" There's also a short piece about DRM and Linux, which is a follow-up to Linus on DRM.
If I opt out what will stop working?
How will I know for sure I am out?
Is that going to be a choice like being a vegetarian, or like choosing not to eat at all?
It is going to be a choice like eating cheese at midnight on Tuesday.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
The technology is going to be like cars. You don't need one but not having one is a restriction in itself.
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
If using microsoft is equivalent to being a non vegetarian, then i am glad i am a vegetarian.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
However I can't help but start reading DRM differently.
;)
Digital Rights Management
Digital Restrictions Masochism
Same diff really.
Oh, and as an opinion, he expects us not to eat.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
How long before MS decides that they will only provide windows for this thing and anything else doesn't offer the needed security? So, you can either use these or you can use something that doesn't run Windows.
Fine for a lot of people here, but what will happen is businesses will still want windows and office, so they'll buy into this, and hardware makers will look at the other stuff as a non-profitable niche market.
Normally I'm not as hard on MS as most of the /. crowd, but gotta give a "boo... hiss..." on this one.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
The technology has raised eyebrows not only for the absolute control it would grant such creators of digital content as music and movie companies but also because it is being driven by Microsoft, which has a reputation for strong-arming the computer industry.
And the next nominee for "Understatement of the Year" is... Matthew Fordahl, of the Associated Press!
Verbatim from the article:
"They just don't understand," Gates said. "That's like saying because we make a word processor, that reporters write what we want them to write or something. I can give you examples to prove that's not the case." (About antitrust fears with DRM)
Wow. He sure allayed my fears. What he meant to say is, no, they don't have to write what he wants, but they do have to write in the FORMAT he wants, or get left behind. This whole DRM off-switch issue is the same quandary. Turn DRM off and watch your access to many online resources, that are becoming more and more integrated with daily life, vanish. Not to mention the suspicion that very well may come with shunning DRM. "What do you have to hide?", say Mr. Poindexter and Mr. Ashcroft.
Maybe it's just me, but I would think that such a system would also enable terrorists to send "sensitive files" to each other, with the full confidence that law enforcement could not read them.
Consider the above statement reworded a little:
Creators of top-secret documents, terrorist plans or other sensitive material could assign rights to sensitive files, allowing them to be viewed only on trusted computers running the system. Anyone else -- FBI hackers, law enforcement and malicious programs included -- would be locked out.The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Consumers shouldn't be worried that Microsoft Corp.'s new security technology will wrest control of their PCs and give it to media companies, Bill Gates said Tuesday.
And we're supposed to believe someone who has a pretty good grip on the OS situation, and would do anything to keep that grip? Personally, I would rather have the chance of being hacked but also have the ability to do anything I want on my computer. I don't want a company telling me what I can and cannot do with my own computer. If we allow them to do this, who knows how much farther these guys will go?
"Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
why has security been linked so much DRM these days ? Whenever i read an article on some kind of rights management initiative - there is almost talk about securing the PC. Security & DRM are two different things ! wih gates works on them individually.
Its amazing how the quote from Benjamin dude works so well here.
Those who are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security
Seems like there always was , will be people trying to take away freedom under the pretext of security - even in computing !
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability.
Thank you Microsoft. No need for comments here.
The actual technology is more of a framework for building possible restrictions on than a set of restrictions in itself.
What matters is whether it is used A) to protect specific things whose owners feel they need protecting or B) to just generally exclude software and data transfer that doesn't have corporate approval.
I must say, it looks to me as if the influence of Microsoft may well be somewhat lower by the time this technology (or similar) is released than it is now. So it'll be no so much 'Microsoft technology' as 'global corporate culture' that determines the level of restriction we eventually experience.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Then you've got a really big ugly paperweight, but again, this is your choice.
Choice is a good thing.
the internet was built on the 'end-to-end' principle - let the applications dictate the ultimate use of the network. the same principle has allowed software to be highly innovative. while the current model can lead to insecurities, it also allows for innovation. for example, suppose i'm building software for a PDA - is it wrong to import address/contact info from outlook express? with palladium, i'm sure only 'trusted' applications will be allowed to do that (i.e. the company that paid MS for access). no doubt this will allow MS to control the pace of innovation and guide its development....
smd4985
you also have the right to remain sileNT. everything you say, can be used against you.
the Godless payper liesense hostage ransom stock markup FraUDpeddler's dream come true.
lookout bullow. sum of US are beginning to awaken from this georgewellian fairytail/nightmare.
If I understand everything correctly I'm no longer going to be the owner of my content but have to ask my Computer very nicly if i can have a look at it.. hmm.. And furthermore if i want to use an other program then the microsoft suite. I have to use a program that changes it's code to the specs of microsoft. In other words the tools I can use other the microsoft have to walk the microsoft walk.. I'm not pleases with this 'security' force upon me..
>Gates says you can choose not to use the new secure PC technology
Thank you Bill Gates my master borg!
Can I choose not to use Windows(tm) too ?
As the well-informed geeks that we are, we are quite aware of the fact that it's perfectly possible to run a secure operating system and maintain it in a good way without DRM in the manner advertised.
However, I can predict that M$ will make a valiant effort to try to persuade the public into thinking that not being part of their Next Generation Secure Computing Base will put them at some kind of immediate risk. The only real risk I can think of here will be the credit given to you if you choose not to run a trusted operating system.
"Hello, I'd like support for M$ Cock-In-Yo-Ass V6 please"
"Are you using NGSCB?"
"No"
"We need you to be running a trusted operating system so that we can remotely assist you, sir."
*Dial tone*
This movement won't be a good thing.
With MS' monopoly on the world, opting out might very well turn one into a modern day TechnoAmish(tm).
Trolling is a art,
Anyone else -- FBI hackers, law enforcement and malicious programs included -- would be locked out.
;)
Where do I sign up? I'm no terrorist, but daaayyymmmn! With the way laws are changing, I'd love to be able to lock them out of my computer with the full confidence of the law. Without moving offshore of course.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
The people that microsoft constantly tout that the DRM features are designed to integrate security with the hardware and the software. How the hell can I trust a company that consistently falls down on security with their software products to "protect" my hardware?
I don't have a big problem with Windows being insecure, because data can be backed up and restored painlessly, but if their brand of "security" extends to my hardware then I may have to be forced to constantly replace hard drives that spin at 40,000 RPM because of "security" flaws befor a patch can be released.
The whole Palladium/DRM issue is about trust. They don't have it for me and I don't have it for them.
What if I am vegan? I never get any choices.
Shouldn't it say, be a meat eater, or choose not to eat? I mean, a meat eater can eat everything a vegitarian can eat, but a vegitarian cannot eat everything a meat eater can eat.
Oh, wait, you didn't read any of this. It never happened. Go back to sleep.
So long as software is read and interpreted by some piece of hardware, there will ALWAYS exist the possibility of hacking that software. Yeah you can create monster keys from hell and lock them down in hardware but, as the XBox project has shown, all it takes is a bug in a signed piece of software and you can kiss your secured system bye bye. Also, there may be exploits available in the firmware itself and there's the popular brute force attack too. If you connect a box (Microsoft, Linux, Mac, etc) to any network, you implicitly accept a certain level of risk of being compromised. This effort will just lead to more complacency. The only truly 100% secured system system is one that's powered off.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
It's funny how Microsoft is quick to claim that the ultimate burden of security does not lie with them, and accepts no responsibility for the flaws in their code. They then turn around and push DRM like there is no tommorow. It's obvious that this is a power grab.
There will come a day when you'll be doing all your hacking on a ten-year-old, "pre-ban" PC without DRM. Old hardware is going to be a valuable asset.
you should check out some naughty girls that need some spanking
Microsoft should learn to produce secure products with its existing technology, before they assume the mantel of taking care of security for an entire consumer demographic.
Haven't they learned that one size doesn't fit all, yet?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright. Until you hear them speak.
So in order to use this people will need to buy new computers, applications, and possibly new displays.
Wintel branded, of course.
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
I'm already a vegan. Join the revolution!
While I dont agree with the levels of restrictions being imposed I think many people have reached the point where they will view computing with mistrust until security can pretty much be guaranteed and this has been a stumbing block for the industry.
I think this mistrust has provided the platform for Micrsoft(et al) and Digital media producers to leap on common fears and drive for acceptance of this new and excessive paradigm. So instead of being able to use our computers in a secure environment the security environment will tell us what we can do with our computers.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
And just yesterday Taco couldn't get enough of that good Apple DRM-loving that's built in as a "choice" in the Ipod/ITunes service. Intriguing difference in tone.
Slashdot would do its readers if it revealed just how much schwag and/or monetary compensation Apple has provided its editors thus far.
No credibility.
In essence, what we have here is a admission that we've reached the end of the line in closed source computer/software innovation (perhaps with the exception of Apple). The only way for MS and their cronies to hold on to the desktop computer market now is with a lock and key.
He's just telling you that the people who own/create the media have the choice to protect it or not.
Loading...
Entrusting computer security to Microsoft is like entrusting national defense to France. And this analogy gets stronger and stronger all the time.
What part of "you can turn it off" didn't sink in to your heads?
Has anyone heard of the tech. they are adopting in some European countries that have sensors in them that WILL NOT allow you to turn on the car if there are traces of alcohol in the air inside the car?
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
Apple's DRM applies only to music that you have purchased from them, and it's not too restrictive except for obvious things like giving it away for free. In this case you actually have a choice to not buy the music. Gates wants no one to have a choice. He wants to have limits already built in when you use anything: DVD, CD, Game, whatever. Can you see the difference? I suspect that the only compensation Apple has provided to /. "editors" is making available bad ass laptops with a sweet GUI and UNIX underneath.
This would be the way they got the masses to follow. It's the whole pleasure/pain thing. They see the pain in the ass of not having these "special abilities", so they give up the pleasure of free will.
Sean D.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
It's interesting that a main reason for DRM is because of how inherently insecure Windows is to begin with :)
And remember, WE are the Borg.
Now get back to your assignment, 106 of 257 Unimatrix Adjunct.
Say you try to open a Samba share on your linux box, using a windows box, and your Win box says;
"Sorry Kip, I can't let you do that. You are trying to access files on an unsecure OS."
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
When it comes to eating in restaurants, in my experience choosing to be vegan is equivalent to choosing not to eat at all.
Many of the functions that will be built into hardware were emulated by software because the chips are not yet built.
Wasn't the main argument by Microsoft that security would have to be implemented at the hardware level to be truely secure? The only reason this is such a big deal is because his plan is to more tightly integrate his software with hardware for security purposes. If so much of this could be implemented as only software, doesn't that already prove the point that this isn't a necessary technology (at least not the way they are portraying it)? I personally don't believe this tight coupling of secure software with secure hardware will be the panacea Bill's talking about, but this demo helps prove this hardware push is more about integration and control than security.
Developers: We can use your help.
Hmmm...They finally have gotten uniforms in line with the corporate culture...
But the story says that communications between programs "could not be intercepted." I am assuming this means that it is encrypted, and that in this system the hardware stores some kind of unique private key. If this is the case, there is nothing new here that open source software hasn't provided. We have GnuGP for trusted email, and OpenSSH for shells, file transfers, and there's even a plugin for Gaim!
I don't understand why you would want some sort of hardware encryption. Because lets say AMD/Intel produce the keys. How hard would it be for them to keep a list of these keys and give copies to the FBI/CIA? Then, even when you *think* you are using a trusted platform you are being monitored. At least right now I know that I am not using secure communications.
Thank God Steve Jobs is a vegan...
The people that respond to these buttons will be the government, content and software companies, corporations and joe dumb user. Most of these people either don't think about or care about the hidden agenda chained to M$'s master plan. This agenda includes:
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Well, if Microsoft isn't serving your needs, perhaps you should look into one of the excellent alternatives out there? A Powerbook or Linux perhaps? Sure you don't want to pay for Windows pre-installed, then wipe it and pay for SuSE or whatever, but if that extra ~$70 actually gets you a computer YOU have control over instead of MS, maybe it's worth it?
Digitally Restrictive Monopoly
He wants us to pick between Krusty's deadly Rib-wich made of animal-like products and starvation.
Developers: We can use your help.
I think I just decided to buy a Mac.
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
I should have elaborated...
Krusty: We're going to stop selling Rib-wiches. The animal we exploited to make them has now become extinct.
Ottoman: Cow?
Homer: Pig?
Krusty: You're waaay off. Think smaller. Think MUCH smaller.
Developers: We can use your help.
So in 5 years, all AMD and Intel chips will have DRM enabled, and Windows will have it on by default. There is absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening. Now in this scenario, if you find a way to disable the DRM, either in the chip or in the software, you can be prosecuted under the DMCA. Or maybe detained without a trial under the Patriot Act as a threat to national security. (if they succeed in getting it made permanent)
Maybe I am creating a "worst case" scenario, but it is certainly plausible. Who would have thought 5 years ago that the US would be able to hold a few hundred people captive without a trial. Or that a college student would be sued for creating a search engine. Or a programmer would be arrested and held in jail for speaking at a security conference. Or a printer cartridge manufacturer would be sued because they are making generic cartridges. Or any of the other BS that has come out of the DMCA. Some people said "Oh, if the DMCA get abused, it will be repealed because the people won't stand for it." Here is a hint: it has been abused repeatedly, and it is nowhere near being repealed. Things are getting worse.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
but I am so mad that that that........ AHHHRGGHhh
Free speech is getting expensive...
Milberg: You would also think Linus would show more loyalty, to the folks that made him, but....
His parents?
It's a simple engineering axiom, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't.
Milberg@/. Karma: [fixed point exception: negative overflow on type long] (mostly due to being a troll's troll).
When I was logged in, the Post Anonymously checkbox wasn't there when I went to post a comment. I think the boys at Slashdot are trying to illustrate a point. Once you give control like this over to any DRM product, your choices are in their hands.
It's funny that this is Slashdot, and yet, no one has gotten the point of Microsoft Palladium. On the XBox, you are not allowed to modify the hardware/crypto chip to run anything other than the supplied software. It's a DMCA violation.
Microsoft wants to build crypto chips into everyday PCs. These crypto chips will run Windows out of the box. It will be a DMCA violation to modify the chip to run "other" software. Getting the picture? Microsoft is introducing Palladium to kill Linux.
It will be illegal to run Linux on a Palldium PC, just as it is illegal to run Linux on an XBox.
Will you Mr. Gates?
I suppose the real question is: What is Microsoft's strategy to avoid responsibility?
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
My guess is that 3rd party apps won't be affected. Just a guess, mind you. Other than that, you may have problems with any software purchased from Microsoft(Office, etc). Also, I'm guessing that later generations of "pay per song" services that sell music for pennies per song will want to sell you music files that will only work on one computer and that will not be useable without DRM active on your machine.
The real question to ask is: "If I opt out, what software provided by my system's manufacturer(Gateway, Dell, etc) will cease to function?". That is, if you buy systems from companies like those. I'm not sure if anyone buying a system from an OEM will care about DRM, but oh well.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
We who were living are now dying
With a little patience
FBI perhaps but Microsoft or the NSA is still locked in. I highly doubt that MS can design such a secure system without beeing forced to provide the master keys (eg like Crypto AG did years ago) to some evil agencies.
Somehow, this sounds like USA is the only place where terrorist attacks happen. I mean, it's not like the IRA, ETA, Hamas and whatever else all target USA. So what happens to the DRM-encrypted computers sold elsewhere?
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I use public transportation 99% of the time. Is public transportation like using linux then?
Some critics and competitors have raised concerns that the technology could be used to reinforce Microsoft's dominance.
Secure documents created in Microsoft Office, for instance, could be unusable on other operating systems or with other office productivity suites. In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability. "I don't know what's going to be capable there. I don't do the software on those systems," he said. "I don't hold the keys. If they do the implementation, then it's like saying they have the same features as every other thing we do in Windows. It's up to them."
He claims "I don't hold the keys" when he owns an almost de facto standard office suite (M$ Office).
I actually think that DRM might work and potentially be a valuable contribution if it's done right. My concern is whether MS will do it right.
Who decides on what is a trustworthy source? If it's Bill, then he can take a walk. But I don't think that Microsoft could get away with that given how little trust the world has in them.
If Palladium needs some sort of certificate to verify the source of an application, then who issues the certificates? I might be missing the point somewhat, but I would still prefer to trust an application where I can scrutinise the source code, than to trust some propriety legalized form of spyware. I dont have anything to hide, I just value my privacy, and if palladium helps me protect my files and my systems from unscrupulous sorts (including those in Redmond) then I'm all up for it.
just my 2p
Karma: Bad. (As in Good?)
if ($article_text =~ /\b(drm)\b/i) /\b(microsoft|gates)\b/i) /\b(mac|jobs|os x)\b/i) /\b(linu[xs])\b/i)
{
if ($article_text =~
{
$reply_text = random_reply({include_key_phrases => "die", "M$", "sucks", "end of the world"]});
}
elsif ($article_text =~
{
$reply_text = random_reply({ include_key_phrases => "expensive", "hip", "iTunes", "God"]});
}
elsif ($article_text =~
{
$reply_text = random_reply({include_key_phrases => ["choice", "freedom", "ReiserFS", "beer"]});
}
}
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
Either suck it up and keep buying Windows, or convince your employer to be a bit less boneheaded. If you are using your own computer to do your work, you should have the choice of what you use.
STUPID GATES.. ur almost as dumb as BUSH.. you know?.. Idiot.. whats even the point in buying a modern digital media computer if the only choice is to A: Use DRM and get bled dry in 6 months and then learn to live on the street or B: Dont use DRM and have nothing to use your computer for exept text.. in wich case a typewriter is more useful.
"What you are seeing now is recognition they need to provide their content in easily accessible forms or else it ends up encouraging piracy," Gates told the AP.
The thing I find funny about this is that he then goes and pushes a format which is designed to make things LESS easily accessible. Which in turn leads to the following - applicable to both Microsoft and the *AA:
"The tighter you squeeze your grip on power, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." -- Princess Leia
It's called 'chmod 0000 file'. Besides, admin tools that are designed to resrict user access is DRM in itself, and nobody complained.
And Apple want to give you choice? What about the choice of MP3 players that Apple allow you to upload your Apple-bought music to?
"All your base are belong to us..."
Quoteth: "This won't happen without Intel and AMD deciding both on the processor chip and the system design they'll build these things in..." Try and force hardware DRM on me. Go ahead and try. I will not buy any new hardware unless it is certified DRM-FREE.
Whether or not it *can* be disabled, you can bet your @$$ that it *will* be enabled by default. And most users will be either be unable to turn it off or too apathetic to turn it off. As soon as one person posts a document for others that uses DRM, everyone else will be forced to use it and they will *Suprise* have to let their wallets be raped by MicroSoft (Heehee... Micro... Soft...) to buy the latest version of Office that can decrypt the document, which happens only to run on the latest version of Windoze. Before long, everyone is using DRM and everyone else is under enormous pressure to bend over and take it.
Suddenly, the world will be hit by DRM-enabled documents from clueless and uncaring users, and those who DO care about their freedom will be forced into using it or not viewing DRM-documents, and those who give it the finger and develop an OSS alternative to remove the DRM will be sued under everyone's favorite law, the DMCA! Gee, sounds sort of like an abusive monopoly...
Would they do this? Sure, in a rats ass moment they would... first, it would bring them revenue from companies who want to get software published (CHARGE THE DEVELOPERS!!!)... second, they would have to certify it so they would require the source code... hmmmm... look at what they're doing in this chunk of code (SUE!!!!) or ... hmmm, look at what they're doing in this chunk of code (STEAL, PATENT AND SUE!!!!). And consider someone perhaps M$ doesn't like... guess what, it doesn't pass certification... period.
As an independent game development company without the resources of the giants, this type of move scares me shitless.
I'd say aloha in leaving, but I have no aloha for the likes of bill gates and his ilk.
Hehe, the same features as other things in Windows. He makes it so easy!
I would love to sell computers with 2000 on them and not XP or whatever the next boatware is gonig to be - but I can't since M$ no longer sells licenses to old OS's. Sure, individuals can buy old licenses 2nd hand and install themselves, but that's an extremely small percentage of people. 95% of people buy their machine with a pre-installed OS, and that is going to be the latest M$ bloatware because you can't run a PC business scavanging old licenses here and there. You have to have a reliable supply of licenses.
As a seller I'm forced to put whatever the latest Winbloze is on the machines I sell. Actually, forcing people to buy something they don't want or need is illegal. It's called racketeering and it's what the auto companies got smacked down on for in the 60's/70's. They were required to publish the specs for any car they no longer sell/service. M$ should be forced to publish the source for old OS's it no longer supports. M$ also shouldn't be allowed to prevent the use of such old OS's. To do so and force people to buy a newer version is racketeering.
Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!
That's what competition is for! That's why there are alternatives!
:)
Like... Mac OS X
Like... Linux
Yes, it sucks if the majority platform becomes stupid, but there are still workable alternatives.
Of course, if Microsoft decides to drop Office support for Mac, then we've got another problem
Or maybe Apple will see this as the opportunity to finally release OS X86... I'm joking!
GPL Deconstructed
Filled under things I don't like:
...and yet who also choose to do nothing by then purchasing Microsoft Windows & Intel CPU's.
/far/ from niche!) then it's imperative to remember that there will always be several alternatives - where their is demand, supply always follows.
People who complain that the 'Wintel' have a monopoly and that we are all locked in and at their mercy...
If you are REALLY worried about DRM...
You could buy a generic PowerPC system, SPARC system, or even an Alpha system (or Sun Desktop or Macintosh, if you have a little more money). They are all still being manufactured and sold new, as desktop systems.
Any one who can build a PC system (which for all practical purposes is everybody reading this) can build a generic PowerPC based system (or SPARC) just as easily as an Intel based system. A power supply, a DVD/CD-R drive, some RAM, a Hard Disk, a NIC and your done. It's entirely possible the only thing you'd need to change would be your power supply, you could keep your existing DVD and CD Write, Hard Disk, Network Card, Monitor, your case even your RAM (depending on your existing motherboard).
What's the point of buying a non-Intel based system?
As long as their are other smaller vendors around, they are going to want to keep their edge to maintain their competitiveness. If people purchase from them instead because they can avoid DRM technologies they will have a vested interest (as a smaller player) in not being DRM enabled, and they will not implement it.
It is much like the situation with DVD region encoding, even mainstream hardware companies produce region free DVD players despite attempted restrictions, simply because it is what consumers want. Consumers don't want technology to limit them in overly zealous ways.
It may very well be the case that consumers blindly purchase DRM enabled technology and that it gains quite an installed user base through stealth, but as long as there is even a tiny niche market for goods that aren't (and in reality the educated consumer market is actually
All that Microsoft can do is prevent Windows from working with non DRM enabled drives (and persuade partners, like Intel, to do the same) - they have no means to persuade component producers such as motherboard manufacturers, clone CPU makers or hard disk manufacturers to stop making non DRM enabled devices when there is a huge and perpetual market for them.
So what if future Microsoft operating systems - and even Intel's own CPU's ONLY support DRM enabled hardware? It's clear who the only long term loser in that situation is going to be. I don't care if someone else has DRM enabled Microsoft based system, if they prefer the convenience and easy of use, then fine with me. I won't be running that system, but it's their choice.
If systems become restrictive enough to get in the way of fair use (which, by all accounts, is a key part of DRM) then alternatives will very quickly come to market.
But I don't run Windows (or rely on x86 CPU's) I have Linux, Solaris, PowerPC's and UltraSPARCs, so I don't care what Windows and/or Intel users get up to in the privacy of their own houses.
I wonder if everyone has forget the outstanding track of Microsoft's achievements in writing bug-free secure software or is it just wishful thinking? Or both? Do you really believe that DRM implementations will be the first software ever which has no bugs, no design flaws, with no way to go around locks? What if someone invents a 'mod' chip for DRM hardware which turns it off but software still thinks it's turned on? Do you really believe in a perfect system? Do you?
>But the common theory is that if people could
>get these things online at a reasonable price,
>then they would buy them, and the only reason
>people are stealing them is that they are not
>available from the content owners...
Availability isn't the issue - it's the value of what we'd be buying.
With DRM, you're paying for a very limited right. In theory, you can only play it on one machine that's connected to the Internet. You can't sell it to anyone else; you can't burn it on a CDA to play in your car; you can't transfer it to another machine. And if your computer dies or the server goes down, you lose all of your DRM keys and have to re-purchase the music. Of course, that's the whole point: sell that Britney Spears single to the same teenager 20 times.
This should hardly be surprising. We're talking about the RIAA. They sell CDs at monopoly-inflated prices with the self-righeous claim of needing to pay musicians; and then they provide a paltry fraction back to the artists. The RIAA a huge, money-sucking blight on the music scene. Do you really want them to develop the next-gen standard for music?
David Stein, Esq.
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
Here is what Gates is essentially saying, "Don't worrying about us taking over control of your computer, because you can turn the 'Next Generation Secure Computing Base' off."
First, notice that he's admitting that when the "Next Generation Secure Computing Base" is turned on, we will lose control of our PCs. He doesn't even attempt to deny it.
Second, if this is the "Next Generation Secure Computing Base", what was the "Previous Generation Secure Computing Base".
Third, the "Next Generation Secure Computing Base" has NOTHING to do with security. It solely has to do with giving the copyright industry complete and utter control of their product. When the "Next Generation Secure Computing Base" is in place, expect to pay EVERY time you watch or listen to anything produced by the television networks, the RIAA, and the MPAA.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
This sort of a machine, while troublesome, does not seem to me to be too much of a problem. What is is, however, is a step in the wrong direction. A step for PCs towards game consoles, such as the X-Box. Think about it for a moment. I wasn't supprised when MS announced the XBox. It's a small, propreitary computer, the market for which generally accepts that they have to pay the maker of the computer to be able to create anything for it. I'd place bets that is what MS wants the PC to become.
Nothing Dead Here.
In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability.
Thank you Microsoft. No need for comments here.
This is exactly what the laywers should have went after on the Antitrust lawsuit - No matter how well you make your product, if it competes with Microsoft, They will FSCK up their system enough so your product will not work, but theirs will, then they will tell you that it is up to you to ensure interoperability.
Examples - Try using Frontpage behind a Squid Proxy - won't work, but it works with their proxy server. It probably could be fixed on the squid side, but the problem is Frontpage doesn't use standard communication protocols.
Or how about every time Windows gets updated, Samba somehow mysteriously has errors that need to be worked out. If Microsoft was NOT a monopoly, they sure as hell would make sure that Windows worked with other servers - just look at how Windows 95 worked reasonably well with Netware Servers.
Or how about they add something to Windows, like Movie Maker, but they want to extend their Monopoly, so they make it so it will only save in their new WMV format and nothing else.
Sorry for the rant, but this is exactly the mentality that Microsoft has. The Department of Justice dropped the ball, and apparently Microsoft is picking it up and running with it.
It's been said before, but, read books, listen to live music, go to the theatre, sports game, whatever. They can only sell crap if people buy crap. Don't want an invasive monster box in your house? Don't buy one. Worried that 'the masses' will buy one? Campaign to inform them. Despite Mr Gate's best efforts, a computer is still just a lifestyle choice. Every human right has been fought for in the face of governmental or business opposition. If you think open PCs are a human right, then you should be ready to fight.
--- Yx3 = Delilah ---
Troll.
How about: Being a vegetarian, or putting yourself at a much higher risk of obesity, diabetes, cancer, BSE....
It's designed to offer unprecedented levels of protection against hacking and eavesdropping... well ... except from Microsoft.
we can't disclose the actual DRM specification to allow interoperability, since that would be a "security" leak.
!paos eht pord t'noD
It's wishful thinking to assume M$ DRM will give you any more security than current M$ crap. Going back to the days of dongles is no fix for Lookout and VBA problems.
It's not that people don't trust computers, they don't trust their software but get the two confused. That's easy to fix.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
It seems to me that M$ is heading down a dead-end road and picking up steam, convincing most who have any clue at all about computers that they suck. With Linux and other alternative operating systems quickly becoming easy to use for joe 'clueless', one question remains in my mind: Where will this train finally wreck?
George W. Bush should be tard and feathered...well, one out of two ain't bad...
"Tard"? How do you turn someone into a 'tard? Maybe when you learn to spell properly I'll have a little more respect for your anti-George Bush rhetoric, you 'tard. ROFL!!!
Well, they sure provided a nice, open interface to the music. I am using a little QuickTime for Java program to decompress the m4p files and then feed the .wav's to LAME and my mp3 player:
QTFile qt = new QTFile("file.m4p");
OpenMovieField om = OpenMovieFile.asRead(qt);
Movie m = Movie.fromFile(om);
m.convertToFile(new QTFile("file.wav"),
StdQTConstants.kQTFileTypeWave,
QTUtils.toOSType("TVOD"),
IOConstants.smSystemScript);
However the conversion eats up all the tags, like song name and artist. Any programming tips to enhance my mp3 jogging experience? I am thinking about reading the iTunes XML library, but I would rather just get them from the m4p file itself.
Where's the Bill Gates borg pic that was there before, and what's up with the unrecognizable "Windows" pic?
This space left intentionally blank.
No point in "end of world"-ing about it right now. We're nowhere near the final release date. A lot of this stuff is just speculation.
Wait until it comes out, and someone finds a bug. It's already near impossible to get Joe User to download a small software update for major problems. Imagine needing a hardware update, or a BIOS update. All it takes is one easily exploitable flaw and a little bit of press. Can you imagine every last DRM box needing a hardware update?
Maybe we can call it "The Virtual Triangle". It consists of Big Media, Big OS and Big Government. Big Media needs Big OS to keep it's content safe. Big OS needs the government to keep turning a blind eye to it's monopolistic practices and eliminate the competition. And Big Government needs Big Media to fill small minds with their story to get elected.
When will everyone see that this is going to turn OSS and Linux in particular into an OUTLAWED product? This is serious, and we're now starting to seeing shots fired.
I agree with the previous poster who said "buy all your hardware now". It's already a Brave New World.
So, what they are saying is those people who don't even know that MS has security updates, will be the ones that will have all thier baby pictures sent to Ashcroft?
First read Microsoft Aims for Protection--From Users
NSA+KGB+CIA = NGSCB.
From the Transcript of Internet Caucus Panel Discussion. Re: Administration's new encryption policy. Rep. Curt Weldon's statement
You might want to read all of Curt Weldon's statement.
Other major issues of concern are...
Attestation Monopoly
Microsoft's NGSCB model for DRM content management grants Microsoft effective root digital certificate control over both software and content. It would be a monopoly even stronger than Microsoft's existing desktop dominance. Just as with Microsoft's proprietary file formats and protocols, the network effect would result in any non-dominate player or vendor facing to great a barrier to provide effective monopoly negating free-market competition.
Loss of Fair Use Rights and doctrine of First Sale
Microsoft's NGSCB DRM model also grants content providers far too much restrictive power. For example, in the USA and in most of the world, you are legally allowed to tape broadcast content for later replay ( timeshifting ), gathering evidence for making a complaint, or legitmate research. The DRM model can be used by content providers to circumvent these legal rights. Also if Microsoft or the Codec developer drops support for a format or even a particular digital key, all that content "protected" by that methord or key becomes unreadable.
The DRM model circumvents the Doctrine of First Sale, by side shifting content from being "goods" into a so-called service. When I purchase a DVD, I own that particular physical instance of that DVD and the right to view the content on it. I expect to be able to play that DVD in any DVD player I choose to, including the DVD drive in my Linux system. Also when I have finished viewing that DVD, I expect to be able to pass or even resell that DVD to any party I choose. I might even give that DVD to my local library, and I am legally entitled to do so. As DMCA protected CSS DVDs already limits what you can do with a DVD, Microsoft's plans for DRM span well beyond pure downloaded digital content.
Microsoft could even make instances of digital downloaded copies tranferable with the same Fair use rights that you would expect from physical books or DVDs, but chooses not to.
It's all about control and under Microsoft's current model it's definately not where do you want to go today or tommorrow.
"The technology, formerly code-named Palladium, will create what amounts to a secure computer within a computer. Certain areas of memory, the processor and even the channels to the display, keyboard and networks are locked down and accessible only by trusted software."
Users can opt to "turn off" the system when it becomes available, most likely in the next generation of Windows expected in 2004 or 2005. But doing so might well severely hamper consumers' access to digital information that's important to them -- and which may indeed be necessary in their work environment.
I can see that this, combined with IPv6 will be the implementation of Homeland Security, Patriot Act III, etc..
Want on the Internet? Use Windows. Don't want to use Windows? Tough. Your new computer won't run anything else. Don't want to use a new computer? Tough. Your old computer won't log on to the Internet.
Try to circumvent the system? Too bad, you're busted. Men in black ski masks with MP5 machine guns will be by shortly to chat with you.
Want to run and hide? Too bad, you're tracked. Your cell phone with GPS knows where you are. Oh, that's right, ditch the cell phone. Hungry? Stop at a store and buy some chips and a soda cash. That RFID tag in your shirt collar and the scanner & camera at the door says, "busted". They know where you are again. Camera's with face recognition tech lock on and track you.
No where to run, no where to hide.
Are you Winston Smith or THX1138??
Bill Gate$ is laying the foundation for a digital "Metropolis"
We have opt out, but what about opt-different
Will I have the option to USE the DRM hardware to enforce my own security policies? Will that be made easy (freely available documentation and utilities), hard (flash my own BIOS), really hard (get out the soldering iron), or nearly impossible (crack this massive key or cut this connection in the CPU's core).
That's the real question. Unless it's easy, they're just making the consumer pay for things they don't necessarily want.
One word: iTunes.
Right now people are downloading songs at a clip of a million a week. And these are Mac users with MacOS X only. When this makes its way onto Windozers...look out!
Steve has proven that if people are given a value-added service at a reasonable price, without the spyware and security hazards that P2P seems to be ridden with, they will choose the pay service over the free service. $0.99/song and $9.99/album is a damn good deal. Once the volume kicks in and the Windows users show up, watch the price per song actually go DOWN. Volume, baby! Volume!
I dislike that the Five Families of the Record Business will get their cut. My husband is a musician and I hate the RIAA even more because of that. The music industry has ripped off musicians from the very beginning, from the Edison Patents Trust on down. However, iTunes is a very compelling reason for me to bite the bullet and upgrade my Mac G3 Blue-and-white to Jagwire and to download iTunes 4.
Give them ease of use, limits on DRM*, a big pool of music that is growing exponentially day by day, and reasonable prices, and you will make money on downloadable music.
*Rip your paid-for AACs to CD-DA, Mix 'em up on your playlist, and Burn them to CD-R. Then Re-rip to MP3 or Ogg or whatever is your pleasure.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Seems to me that maybe all this new safe-hardware woudn't even be necessary if Microsoft managed to get Windows right in the first place. It's like trying to block the leaks on the dry side of the dam, instead of going into the water and stopping it before it starts.
And i will never forget that Bill Gates is the King of "making technologies that people don't know they need, and then making them think that they need it".
Not a stong analogy. While France and Microsfot are both overbearing and obnoxious, Microsoft is also dangerous.
Get out of Wintel.
Seriously. There are viable alternatives, even from a do-it-yourself standpoint. Others here have already mentioned generic PowerPC and Sparc systems. Thanks to the wonders of Open-Source, most Linux software skates through the translation with a simple recompile, and porting the rest generally isn't inhumanly difficult.
Does it cost more? Right now, in the short term, yes. Show some demand for systems like this, and someone will move in to fill the void with cheaper boxes, I guarantee it. For now, it's down to your choice: your money or your rights. I know which one I'll take.
Someone will find a way to circumvent DRM. And if the internet becomes inaccessible without the use of unacceptable Microsoft products, the people will find some other medium. Remember that BBS systems existed before the internet became popular. Perhaps a wireless BBS network will spring up. Or a secondary, unrestricted internet.
Never say die.
> When the "Next Generation Secure Computing Base" is in place,
> expect to pay EVERY time you watch or listen to anything produced
> by the television networks, the RIAA, and the MPAA.
You underestimate them.
In the OS after Longhorn, you will have to pay a monthly fee
to retain access to to data _you_created_.
If you have a disk, you will not control its contents;
you might not be allowed to know what's on it.
Your data and applications will only work if your computer
is net-connedted, so that the DRM mechanisms can watch what
you're doing.
Wait a minute. Didn't I say that on the other side of the record? I'd better check
Developers!
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
what if I haven't fallen down yet, and if I did, I could get up on my own? Sure, we the people, could choose not to use this technology. But I would imagine that not too long after it creeps into everything technological in our lives, refusing to use it would be in effect like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
How many services would simply not be available to those who choose to take the road less traveled? There are already examples of this kind of insiduously malignant thinking taking place as we live and breathe:
- a Patriot Act which contained specific 'sunset clauses', now being attempted to be made permanent by Sen. Orin Hatch
- an incumbent administration which insists on erasing the lines that should clearly be drawn between church and state relationships
- anything related to the DMCA, UCITA, CDA, P2P, etc.
- Enron, Tyco, RIAA, MPAA, executive compensation, golden parachutes, and numerous other examples of obscenely piggish & unrepentant favoritism towards all things big business
- a constant succession of legal decisions favoring the white collar criminals who masquerade as upstanding corporate citizens of our communities
Why don't they simply make it a legal requirement to ask for and receive anyone's express permission to distribute their personal information? And then make it a felony to fsck with us if we don't sign on the dotted line. Oh yeah, I forgot: because it would be too much of an inconvenience for those who want to abuse our personal information.
Big Brother never had it so good.
If you really want to draw an analogy to international politics, just think about these points:
which nation is dominating international politics?
which government is at this very moment severely resticting its "users" (think citizens) rights "in their best interest"?
which government is taking the chance to secure profit while talking about security?
which government arguest that "peer review" (think United Nations arms inspection) is a bad thing?
If your answer to all these questions is "France", please think again.
sig intentionally left blank
George W. Bush should be tard and feathered...well, one out of two ain't bad...
Well, I knew he could fly, but not without an aircraft.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
bollocks united. Who needs the preview button eh? That should read "You can't run windows on it unless..."
/. without the rampant typos.
Although, this just wouldn't be
Since MS has developed/designed this hardware and software package, that they should have a free unlimited warrauntee if it's purchased through OEM or not. It's their brainchild, and if it has a flaw in the hardware design that lets untrusted code be executed (you know there will be), then yes... MS should be burdened with the responsibility. People are going to be trusting MS with their data now, to the point of MS selling this thing using security as the foundation. If there's one bug... just one bug, then MS must be responsible for fixing that and every other problem caused by that.
They didn't sell IIS with security as a point, therefore Code Red is no big deal to them. I don't want to see a DRM Code Red running amok, because it would fix things so that you might have to trash the hardware if you got it.
Therefore, I'll propose this: Make the hardware stuff programmed in flash ROM, and not at the transistor level. Sure, it'll be a little slower, but you won't need a microscopic soddering iron to apply patches. Make it so that patches can only be applied by inserting a flash card (with an unusual shape, for instance) into a proprietary drive that's hooked directly to the mobo. This way, that flash ROM can only be updated locally, and not by some malicious program. These flash cards should only be distributed by MS, we'll say weekly (judging by past performance).
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Umm, do some research, shit-for-brains. If it weren't for the French military, the USA wouldn't exist today. If France sucks so bad, what does it say about the USA that it owes its independence to them?
Lafayette is very dead. The 1700s are ancient history. :P
After Lafayette we have a consistent record:
Waterloo
1870
The mutinies of 1918 (where decimation was used to keep French units in line).
1940
Vichy
Viet Nam
Algeria
Now do some more research, "shit for brains"!
I think he was talking about the France that rolled over and spread its ass-cheeks for the Germans some 60-odd years ago. *That* France.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
If I own a business I for one thing wouldn't trust this technology. While it may appeal to the PHBs that that they will be having help covering their tracks (i.e. can't copy messages, no storage records of incriminating edividence, etc), they might not like the big consequences if they chose this.
Remember back around the end of the anti-trust suet MS was threatening to stop making windows? With this technlology they now have even more of a threat, the can flip the switch and render all MS pc useless unless their damands are met.
Then there is the MS tax with MS getting away with it and probably increasing it each time due to their control of a businesses computers. Don't make the payment, get your PCs turned off and have your business haulted or worse.
What's your problem with other nations having different opinions?
sig intentionally left blank
Some people may think that the above is overly pessimistic but you have to consider who will gain from the above scenario. The answer is almost everyone. The content industry, including the media with their huge influence over the general population is obvious, but they are not alone. The big tech companies will gain from the barriers to entry that it will erect to new competition and the increased control will allow the creation of new businesses selling things which were once free. Government will be a major supporter of this scenario (especially in the present climate) as it will enable much great monitoring of their citizens and control of information distribution.
The only people who will lose are ordinary people and even then most of them will never know it. I can't see mass demonstrations against any of these measures. Most people will not know or care what they are losing and the few (like us) who do are too small in number to have any effect. At each stage of the above scenario very reasonable sounding arguments about security can used to obfuscate the real reasons for the changes. The scenario above can be implemented, it will result in great benefits to those in power, in both corporations and government, and there is little that can be done to stop it. It would be foolish to believe that presented with the great opportunity our masters will not seize it will both hands.
n/t
... that one reason things like Passport have failed (so far) is because of the people running around saying the sky is falling?
People not trusting Passport and making a noise about it is probably one reason there were few takers outside Microsoft. Note: Microsoft is using it... and every Windows user will be using Passport at least to deal with MS.
Now as to why Bob failed, I'm not saying.
-pyrrho
DRM in action?
Let's say I buy a new CD. I decide to rip this CD and share it on my favorite P2P network. This is the kind of thing that DRM is supposed to prevent, right? So whatever I use to rip the CD must somehow tie the CD to my computer. But if I am ripping to MP3, how is it going to do this? Sure Win Media Player could do something like that (tag my MP3), but I don't even know if that is even the most popular program to rip CDs. There are certainly many alternatives to it. Will Palladium make it so that my computer will not play music that was created using a DRM enabled ripping program? So it's controlling my sound card, or at least the channels to it?
This may be a little OT, but, you know, I wonder if something like the iTunes Music Store, if it's a success, wouldn't help prevent all your content from being Palladium-controlled.. I mean, maybe the RIAA (and MPAA?) will see that the iTMS and it's clones can be successful without 100% DRM restrictions.. and give up on this whole super-DRM, DCMA, Palladium push..
Sure, Palladium may be able to keep you from getting viruses (can it?) but I feel this whole thing is really about DRM and Microsoft getting in bed with the content industry..
"Look, we'll deliver the secure platform, and in return, you publish all your DRM lockdown media in MS formats.. ensured monopoly for all!"
Where's Osama?
Where's Mullah Omar?
Where's Saddam?
Where's the Anthrax mailer(s)?
Mikreausauft Corporation
END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA)
1. By us having written this license agreement, you have agreed to be bound by its terms. Such bondage shall commence at the instant this document is written and shall persist for all of eternity or until the universe self destructs, whichever happens last, and applies even if you are unaware of such application.
2. You agree that you wish to be bound by the terms of this agreement and that if any statement or clause in this agreement is found unenforceable by a court of law, such a clause will still remain in effect. The previous statement includes itself. You agree to challenge the judge in said court of law to a duel.
3. PRICE. You agree that all of your physical and/or intellectual property now belongs to Mikreausauft Corporation, including but not limited to all of your money, your house(s), your car(s), your personal belongings and those of your family, friends, coworkers and enemies, and any other property that used to belong to you or any of the aforementioned people, and any other property. You agree that under the terms of this license agreement, we are doing you a huge favor by allowing you to pretend that what used to be your property still is, but that may change at any moment without prior notice. You agree that at any time, with or without notice of any kind, we, including our agents and representatives, may enter into the property that used to be yours in order to search and/or access any property therein, as it belongs to us and it is our right to access it. You agree that such search and seizure shall commence with or without a search warrant, with or without your permission, and with or without any other such legal procedure. You agree that you forfeit the right to due process and may be arrested by us or any of our agents and representatives for any reason and without the right to a fair trial, if one is given at all. You agree that you are our slave forever and ever and that you have no rights under this agreement. You agree that you have signed your soul over to us, that we own you, and that you are our material property to do with as we please. You agree that because Mikreausauft Corporation is a huge multibillion dollar multinational corporation, Mikreausauft Corporation is entitled under the laws of the universe and by divine privelege to eternal perpetually increasing profits.
3. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights: Not applicable.
4. LIMITATIONS. You may NOT use the software product that you have paid for. You may NOT return the product for a full or partial refund. You may NOT install the product on any number of computers, including but not limited to zero, one, two, any negative number, any positive number, any rational or irrational number, any real number, any complex number, any imaginary number, any infinite number, any number on any number system or mathematical theory now known, later developed or previously forgotten, any number in any base system, including but not limited to binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal or any other base system, any number expressed in any numeral system including but not limited to the Roman numerals, Arabic numerals, or any other numeral system, any number recorded by any method or by any means, including but not limited to numbers stored in the digital memory banks of any storage and retrieval system, numbers written on paper, refrigerator magnets, cavemen scribblings or engravings on granite boulders or any other type of rock material, or any other number. The software product may NOT be used by any number of processors on the allowed number of computers. The software product may NOT be used on any day of the week, including but not limited to Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, any day with a name in any language, or any other day. You may NOT reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, twist, spin, poke, prod, mutilate, cut o
It's been well-known that the "secure computing" features could be turned off by anyone who wanted to do so since they first announced them.
Y2K Compliant since the late 1890s
Consumers shouldn't be worried that Microsoft Corp.'s new security technology will wrest control of their PCs and give it to media companies, said Bill Gates
I've already chosen not to use it; I use Linux.
Remember if you didn't pay anything for your mp3 ripping software your infriging on (can't remember companies name, tompson maybe?) copyright.
Close. You're thinking of patents owned by Fraunhofer Gesellschaft that are managed in the United States by Thomson Multimedia d/b/a RCA. See also MP3 Licensing.
Will I retire or break 10K?
> In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability.
>
> "I don't know what's going to be capable there. I don't do the software on those systems," he
> said. "I don't hold the keys. If they do the implementation, then it's like saying they have
> the same features as every other thing we do in Windows. It's up to them."
Weeelll... If Bill _lets_ people implement it, and doesn't sue them into oblivion for doing so, then I don't see any problem.
OTOH, he says that implementing it would be "like saying they have the same peatures as every other thing we do in Windows"... so then he might pick up the Cursed +3 Hammer of DMCA...
If I'm not mistaking M$ tried something similar with the XBox, trying to make the hacker proof. They were proven wrong. I stand firm on this belief, nothing can stop a good hacker except for another good hacker, not hardware, not software. It takes a human mind to stop another human mind. As for opting out, I'll do that by reverse engineering the kernel and recompiling it without all the crap!
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
In the DRM article, it's posited that the new slaves of copyright will be computer administrators. Naturally, they'll have to be vetted for a good "copyright history", and have the right pieces of paper. If hardware is being forced into software compliance-checking, how long do you think it will be before the admins themselves are? Before the big tick in the box from Microsoft is the difference between this industry and another?
Consider that at least as big a problem as "non-compliant" software is the people problem. Your average user will have an appliance that will only operate in a fashion mandated by the DRM keepers. And your commercial network will be overseen by regularly-retested DRM admins. The new gatekeepers. The new priesthood.
Call it paranoia, but if it's possible, they'll try it.
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
...this could well be *the* thing that marks the beginning of the end of relevance for Microsoft. They are going to start requiring that software vendors get certified DRM-compliant before their products are released. So now it takes twice as long for new software to be introduced. Sound familiar? Yea, this is why Novell lost out big time on a x86 server industry they had in the palm of their hands. The line will be drawn and users will not like it but, more importantly, software developers will not tolerate it and move to a new platform.
"In the first demonstration of how the system would work, the company showed Tuesday how programs protected by the technology could not be altered or their communications intercepted by a malicious hacker, who happened to be played by a Microsoft worker dressed in a red T-shirt adorned with a skull."
:P
"In Tuesday's demonstration, the separate elements work seamlessly with each other. The only difference to the end user was that in the unsecured version, the hacker could alter the program and view the data; in the secure version, he could not."
If only I could have been there. Watching someone type and being told it worked seemlessly, then watching them type some more and being told they are locked out... I mean WOW. Where do I sign? Does it work with people wearing blue shirts too, or does it detect the skull I wonder? Could it be modified to detect ties and PHBs? Perhaps they have a new API call to disable all the horibly insecure existing API calls which let you snoop on any and all messages and data on the running system.
"Secure documents created in Microsoft Office, for instance, could be unusable on other operating systems or with other office productivity suites.
In the interview, Gates said it's up to other companies to ensure interoperability. "
Maybe when people get tired of doing - File Save as *.txt in order to share their files with others normal people will look a step or two past the default settings.
The AAC file has a soupcon of DRM in it. It will allow itself to be copied and used on up to three "authorized" computers. It also has your name and email address in a header,
However, once you burn that AAC to an audio CD (and in the process, rip to standard Red Book-compliant CD-DA, all bets are off. You can turn around and take the CD-DA tracks on that audio CD and do what thou wilt.
I don't think the "burn unchanged playlists up to 10x each" thing is too unreasonable. You get one Red Book audio CD plus 9 spares. And if you absolutely GOTTA burn those tracks again, nuke the playlist and reassemble it. Or change the track order. The counter resets.
Really...this is not unreasonable terms. Steve had to do SOMETHING to placate those vultures at the RIAA. This could have been 1000% worse...look at Pressplay or RealOne or any of the other RIAA approved "rent a song" services.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
First version allows burning to Red Book. If the second version doesn't, guess what happens? Everyone deserts iTunes en masse and goes back to whatever P2P system they were using before iTunes. iTunes fails, Apple loses its shirt.
If anything, Steve knows where his bread is Vegan-friendly margarinned. He has shown time and time again that the customer comes first at Apple. Occasionally he has made mistakes (.Mac you have to pay for, anyone? The POS called the eMac, anyone?) but more often than not he does the right thing.
BTW the frog boiling thing was thoroughly debunked. If the water in a pan becomes sufficiently hot, whether the water was gradually heated or hot to begin with, the frog WILL jump out to safety. Check snopes.com for details.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Users can opt to "turn off" the system when it becomes available, most likely in the next generation of Windows expected in 2004 or 2005. But doing so might well severely hamper consumers' access to digital information that's important to them -- and which may indeed be necessary in their work environment.
Bill's concept of giving Windows users a choice regarding security features is kind of like Senator Bob Dole's concept of giving U.S. citizens a choice of health-care.
For those too young to remember, Dole ran for president against Bill Clinton and lost. Dole repeatedly justified his vehement opposition to a national health-care system by claiming that consumers would lose the element of choice that they now enjoy with our wonderful corporate-controlled system. He actually said on TV, "Do you want a bunch of guys in suits deciding what your health care choices are?" I remember wondering at the time whether he was talking about some hypothetical big-government guys-in-suits, or the real-life guys-in-suits who run insurance companies and HMOs, who currently make those decisions for us. For most Americans with normal incomes, "health care choice" consists of whatever is offered by the company where they are currently hanging onto a job.
The idea that Windows users will have a meaningful choice about using Palladium security is just such a fantasy. Yeah, if you want to isolate yourself from all commercially produced content, go ahead and turn off Palladium. It's your choice. While you're at it, go ahead and disconnect from the power grid and the phone system. Like it's that easy.
I've been wondering for a while what in the hell Microsoft possibly thinks is going to inspire people to junk their PCs and buy new hardware so they can run Palladium Windows. Particularly the 40 million Win98 users who still haven't done that. Will MS invoke an obscure EULA clause that allows them to outlaw using the OS after a certain date? Will they simply stop supplying security patches and let virus authors do the rest?
I now believe Microsoft's deployment plan is to get content providers on board, with the promise of total copyright control and self-destructing documents that will force a subscription model on everybody. Of course, Microsoft won't be the bad guy any more than Grokster is the bad guy -- they're only providing a platform.
Bill and Steve know that most people want to be part of the world they live in. The teeming masses don't crave the adventure of living in a yurt with a solar panel and a shortwave radio. If major content providers announce a deadline after which all new documents will be inaccessible to older systems, people will buy new systems.
If Linux can be locked out by DMCA and other means, then the consumer computing world will be even more sharply divided than it was in the early Apple/IBM days. Bill is counting on most people wanting to stay in the mainstream, and I think he's right. It's called the mainstream for a reason.
At this point I don't see any way that anybody is going to prevent Microsoft from doing what it wants to do. The only question is whether it will actually work. Doubters can glibly forecast that the first time Palladium gets hacked will spell doom, but a constant stream of security problems hasn't stopped Windows so far. It's possible that Bill has already played his last card and sitting back smiling, waiting for everybody to realize that he has already won the game.
The like a vegetarian comment is chilling.
:-(
Just try getting a vegetarian meal in your average restaurant.
Inferior quality, restricted choice, having to go without the entree and half the time you end up with non-vegetarian stuff anyway!
Sound like the future of non-DRM software to me
With all the talk about how DRM enabled hardware will "lock out" the use of non DRM enabled software, I am prompted to say.
I choose not to play the game. I am happy to miss out on the latest DRM enabled whizz bang thing (as I have posted before). But let us assume that the mainstream hardware manufacturers go down the path of pandering to the DRM zealots.
Can we create open hardware. I mean, I know that there are certain open hardware products, but can we really create a "Free (as in speech) Hardware" movement, or is the capital barrier too high. Can we get the Fab plant to make chips/drives motherboards, can we even get the designs for hardware to use? If we cannot then are we screwed or is there market enought in the non-DRM world enough for the manufacturers to justify sales, will they even be permitted to manufacture the hardware regardless of the potential market. Will the Chinese come to our rescue by virtue by being big enough and ugly enough to tell the DRM driven west where to get off and proceed to make the un crippled hardware we require?
And even more important than all this, will the governments that are increasing the services they provide via technology based means (for example the internet) retain free standards that do not require their citizens to use a particular OS/DRM regime in order to interact with the organs of the state. It is this aspect of the whole thing that to me is most scary. Scary because it is the classic path to disenfranchisement. Which is a bad thing(TM).
It is the use of IP to restrain access to unencumbered hardware and similary access the services that my government demands I use that concerns me. Whether I get to use the latest online game or not really doesn't matter.
"The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
Sure, no probs, I probably should have done that in my post first time round...
m (MicroATX).
:-) or :-( depending on your position on Linux/Mac OS X :] ).
;)).
For PowerPC, Motorola actually roll their own there was a Slashdot article about it a while back. The Motorola ones are particularly cool because they are dual CPU and dual on board ethernet (and of course are regular ATX form factor). You could also get an AmigaOne board (ATX) (currently Pre-Order), or a Pegasos Dual board http://www.amigasuperbit.com/indexcataloge/531.ht
You can a motherboard and CPU for ~600 Euro from these guys, which is not at all bad.
There are other sites too, but you do have to Google for them. All of these run Linux, and while they may not seem that fast from reading the specs, of if you've ever tried a Power Macintosh of a similar spec that seemed slow on that speed of CPU, don't worry as Linux is extremely fast in comparison to Mac OS X (quite amazingly so, especially as gcc does not optimise compiled code for Altivec (work currently being sponsored by Red Hat, and being done by Alan Cox I think I read...). I've posted this before, but Linux runs much faster than Mac OS X on my G4 PowerBook than Mac OS X does, there is so much difference it's in speed it's scary (and it's not just Mac OS X's GUI that slows the system down, general IO is slower, meaning *everything* (networking, disk access, memory usage) is slower [which is
For SPARC, the SPARC Product Directory web site has quite a few places you buy them from. Tadpole are particularly cool as they make SPARC laptops. A lot of companies simply re-sell Sun parts they buy OEM.
One company, Sun Rise (UK) buy Sun motherboards, CPU's etc OEM from the US and resell them in their own cases in interesting & powerful configurations. Apparently this pisses of Sun UK, but Sun US are quite happy to keep selling them the parts, so they continue to build systems that way...
They are really very good systems and the midrange systems are a much better (and much cheaper) than anything Sun offers, there support is good too, but I think their sales & marketing side of things lets them down I think (their web site is appalling and they don't really seem to know how to drum up business with technology oriantated firms, e.g. ISP's, Telco's, the seem to be after other markets...). They are still worth looking at though...you will save 50% on the cost of hardware (compared to buying from Sun), and you'll get a much better midrange system than anything Sun currently offer.
NB: Sun Rise actually sell business (not consumer) products, but I thought this might be interesting to some people none the less.
Prices vary quite a bit for them (none charge as much as Sun though, most are less than half the cost). Second hand might be best if cost is a big consideration, a complete Dual CPU SPARC system can be had on ebay for ~700 USD.
As for Alpha systems, apart direct from HP/Compaq there are a few component sales in Google like these guys, but most of them are complete systems, badged as 'Workstations', an example is Microway who sell a reasonably affordable complete system (even ships with Red Hat or Windows 2000 (if you like that sort of thing
Alpha systems are more expensive than SPARC (and twice as much as PPC systems), and while I think the PPC systems are better value for money, if you did want to go 'all out' and get an Alpha system you can get one for around 1,300 USD (CPU + Motherboard).
I feel much the same as you. I informed one of my Senators of my position on the topic of drilling in the Arctic National Refuge, and they promptly responded with a letter (at least they read my post) explaining their difference in opinion and why they wouldn't support my viewpoint. I suppose that is their right, but I would've liked to know where I stood relative to the other constituents on the situation. At least if I was in the minority, I would have felt better about the political process. Instead, I got no information to that effect. It cultivated a sense of distrust that has only grown larger over the years.
I only know of the "hotly" debated bills, the bills that the media believes should be news, and the bills that organizations such as the ACLU, EFF, NAACP etc... bring to the spotlight. What scares me, are the bills that we don't really know a lot about. What scares me more, is that I feel it is necessary to know about these bills because I lack the trust in my representative that they won't try to fleece me.
I have some websites that I frequent which provide me with tools to search for Bills, Resolutions, etc... What I would really like is to know of some website/organization that provides me with the necessary information to see bills by content and category. It is sad to say, but I (like you apparently) are loosing trust in my representative. I don't feel sufficiently represented. I also think that as our population increases, so will the political woes. It is too difficult for a politician to represent everybody, and the larger their constituency, the more people get left out.
This is purely my opinion, but I believe there are at least 3 elements to the "system" that stand to destroy our Republic.
- Career politicians
- Corporate Campaign Contributions/Lobbying
- A population that grows faster than we can support and govern
Perhaps we could ameliorate the growing distrust of politics in America by creating an organization that does nothing but categorize the bills that are up for vote and then place them on the web for public viewing. This organization wouldn't be a "watchdog" group (in the traditional sense) but it could provide the constituency with factual (not sensationalized) information about the legislative process.To know is to have knowledge....to understand is to be enlightened.
The CD-R you just burned is not a waste either...you can play that in almost any CD player you want. (except old cranky ones that can't play CD-Rs, won't play CD-Rs, ever.)
Hi,
I made some experiments with different media and so far I got best results with 80min eProFormance 48x CD-Rs. It always plays on a very old and junky CD player, which doesn't play almost any CD-R and even real, pressed CDs most of the time.
"cdrdao disk-info" gives this info:
CD-RW: no
Total Capacity: 79:57:72 (359847 blocks, 702/807 MB)
CD-R medium: Prodisc Technology Inc. Short Strategy Type, e.g. Phthalocyanine
Recording Speed: n/a
CD-R empty: yes
I haven't tested lots of different media (mostly Verbatim, eProFormance and Platinum), but so far these CD-Rs are the best and I have very old (>10years) CD players that play them better than some new pressed CDs. Good luck!
and it is secure from the prying eyes of law enforcement, there will be howls of protest, to be sure, from enforcement agencies.
.Net or similar.
If, on the other hand, there is a security "backdoor" for law enforcement, then the system really isn't secure in the first place.
No matter how it's sliced, MS has themselves in a pickle; either the system is secure, and the unintended consequence is a secure method for law breakers to communicate, or the system has a backdoor and ultimately not secure (secure enough for digital content, perhaps). Expect a lot of FUD on this issue in the future.
Microsoft isn't helping much with speculation flying around about the exact implemention, a company known for it's clear communication and vision. I am surprised it's not called Secure
Tip,
save all your media to a network attached drive. Make sure your Linux box will play the media. Back it up onto CD's. DRM broken stuff will become evident. You can then cancel your subscription to the broken content. Remember the consumer is always right. In a free market the consumer has a vote. Be sure to vote. (hint; the vote is spelled $$.)
PC programs that required a dongle were voted down by the majority of consumers. Notice most of your games now don't include a dongle in the box? DRM music needs our same vote. No Compact Disk logo means no sale. I only buy the real red book music CD's. I left 4 CD's on the shelf last week for lack of the Compact Disk logo. (EMI get a hint and get back to advertising it's a real CD. You are loosing sales because the logo is missing.)
The truth shall set you free!
At boy Coward tell me like it is!
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank