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Microsoft's Athens PC
OneLeg noted that the Seattle Times has a story on Microsoft deciding to partner up with HP and
work on new PCs with a simpler, more controlled architecture. Including things like integrated telephony into the PCs, and in general, being a bit more Maclike and locking Linux out of the desktop market.
OMG, you're kidding me. Isn't this what people usually blast Apple about? Trying to control both hardware *and* software?
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
All your bus are belong to us?
being a bit more Maclike and locking Linux out of the desktop market.
...Since when can't you run Linux on your Mac? Further, since when has Apple been worried about such a thing?!
Linux can obviously still run on other PC's, and other architectures in general.
What's stopping somebody from "partnering" with a manufacturer, producing a PC that won't boot DOS/Windows, but will boot Linux? Obviously on such a board, MS could always add support for it, but wouldn't.
Anyone want to start a pool on when a port of Linux to this will be ready?
Self Serving Sig: Hosting Comparison
The XBOX will now come with a monitor, an HP label, and Windows XP. Yay!
Oh wait, this is a bad thing... I think.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
I do't think we have anything to worry about. Media Center Edition was a complete failure because they only allowed OEMs to carry it. Now they are going to have your OS come with the hardware and nothing else? The point is to get your software into the hands of as many people as possible, not tie it to hardware. Apple succeeded because they did this from the get go....Microsoft can't do this now.
Dell is one of the (if not) biggest PC manufacturers. If MS can get on the bus w/ Dell and start locking open-source out of PC's this way - not a bad idea for the folks at MS.
... I like the idea of more integration, phasing out of legacy *stuff*, etc...lets keep it open to all players, though.
Don't get me wrong
Blah blah blah ------
"How am I supposed to remember you, when you won't let me forget?" --Bare Naked Ladies
As for trying to lock Linux out, that's no big deal. Linux as I can see it, is here to stay. someone will probably keep selling more or less standard x86 hardware for a while yet. And besides, someone will probably get Linux to work on this Athens thing anyways...
They give their OSes out for free, I believe, after they release the next version anyway. Microsoft won't even let DOS 2 into the public domain. However, they won't kill you for copying a bootdisk from someone else. Well, they won't give us the source anyway.
☠
1. Microsoft teams up with hardware vendors to create cool new hardware
2. Linux programmers (in their spare time) can't write drivers for new hardware.
3. It's all Microsoft's fault, right?
Oh yeah, Taco, you god damn hypocrite... you have a love affair with Apple (cause they give you free shit, so you give them free adverts, own up to it plz) but now they're being more "Mac-like."
At least I'm not the one that uses a Powerbook.
Microsoft has made hardware standards for quite some time. They still haven't gotten in the hardware business (other than peripherals.) And why on earth is it so awful that MS is trying to make Windows better? We (the /. crowd) always bitch about how much it sucks, why don't we applaud MS when they do something to try to fix it? Setting up a standard for PC hardware that they think will integrate better with Windows is fine IMO - if it helps make "the" consumer OS better for the consumer, more power to them. I don't blindly support monopoly abuse, but I really don't think that's what's happening here. I think that MS is taking steps to make the PC better (by integrating telephony and other "cool" features). The system they've set up has some real innovation and isn't merely copying the work of others. I think we should at least see it before mindlessly bashing it (as some of the other comments have already done.)
This is yet another attempt at total desktop control, something Microsoft can't wait to have.
Micahel Robertson said it best:
Microsoft wants to move to a world where THEY decide what software a computer runs because that will allow them to extract the most money from consumers. They'll position this product with a comforting sounding name like "trustworthy" computing and tout the benefits, but it's really about shifting power over an individual's PC from the buyer to Microsoft. Microsoft will put up a permission gate before any software can be installed which will have a fee associated with it. It will ultimately give Microsoft control over a user's computer.
This is the first step in something like this becoming a reality. Control the hardware before you control the software.
Remember that story where microsoft wants to implement "classes" of pcs? Like "This game will only run on Class A or better machines"? This is a start, if only halfway.
This scares the hell out of me, and think long and hard about what the implications of such an act can cause if this becomes "mainstream".
"The Athens PC has a built-in telephone linked to Microsoft's productivity applications. When the hardware receives an incoming call, the software automatically pulls up the caller's contact information and photo if the data are stored on the system."
Awesome, and 6 months later and a few installs of various packages, your phone rings and you see this:
A system error has occurred:
ODBC-OLE error 864: Can't connect to object. Please contact your vendor
Call rejected.
You know you're a geek if you've ever replied to a tagline.
Microsoft is treading on shaky ground here. What is to stop Dell from suing Microsoft for collaborating w/ HP on Athens? Who owns the rights to the manufacturing concepts behind this PC - HP, or MS? If its HP, then this partnership puts other PC manufacturers at a serious disadvantage, as they wouldn't have access to the IP to build a similar or identical PC... not that I'm against companies suing MS over this sort of thing, but you'd think that w/ MS' past legal troubles, they'd stay out of manufacturing or collarborating w/ manufacturers unilaterally.
I own both HP and MSFT stock, but haven't bought an HP product for years (although I keep rescuing Laser Jet Series II printers from the trash bins).
I rather wish MS would make the boxes instead of HP or whoever. Can't beat an MS mouse - some of the best consumer hardware on the planet.
Exactly how?
So Microsoft is trying to reinvent itself somewhat in Apples image. I thought we all love proprietary locked-down Macs.
This is just one product.
If there's a demand for linux, there will be a demand for hardware that runs linux. Just don't expect to be buying it from Jobs or Gates.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Based on the article, it would appear to me that not just Linux, or the BSD's wouldn't be installable, but applications too.
i.e. OpenOffice...
Is it just me, or does that computer look a heck of a lot like Homer's setup in the Mr. X episode? With all that crap attached to the monitor, and all...
The computer setup looks nice. Now if they can just put CPU in the monitor and keep it that size. With 200 gig HD, DVD-RW drive, they got a buyer.
I think they've already done that
Louis Kim acknowledged the similarities [of Apple's recent hardware lineup], noting, "Apple is on a similar track in that they're designing with the end-user in mind and they're integrating hardware and software."
Apple is on a similar track??? A similar track? They built the f*cking track 10 years ago and Microsoft and the other PC vendors are on a hand-cart like laurrel and hardy trying to catch up. Similar track my arse! Apple are so far down the track it's not funny, MS will be coming up with a new online music distribution service next.
1990s MS: "We are not a monopoly."
2000s MS: "We can't compete fairly, lock out the competition."
2010s MS: "Would you like Fries with that?"
Trolling is a art,
Why is it every time Microsoft makes any move, it must be considered a move to keep Linux out of the market? There are PC's out there with Lindows. Do you suppose this is a move to lock Microsoft out of the market? I don't believe that any of this is directed toward linux and I'm certain that Microsoft has their reasons for their moves outside of "Linus' World". In psychology, I believe they would consider you to be a bit self-involved when when you consider every move relevant to your situation.
SL33ZE - Artificial Intelligence is No Match For Natural Stupidity -
Ok it's got a thumb print reader now tack on DRM and anybody else envisioning your WMA player requiring you to authenticate yourself to listen to the music in 3 years? After all you purchaced (or it it leased as purchacing does not allow the RIAA's sponsers to collect enough money so leasing is much more attractive to them you dont pay no more music collection) the liscence to listen to the music and only you.
No sir I dont like it.
When the hardware receives an incoming call, the software automatically pulls up the caller's contact information and photo if the data are stored on the system.
Well, time to get to work today...
No, too fat... Hm, no picture? No support... Yikes! Fugly, no help for you... Whoa, hold on a minute! Yes, Tech Support is ready to hump- er help you!
Love 'em or hate 'em, Microsoft's popularity has helped to bring computer components down in price. So, even though I won't use their stuff unless forced to, I have benefitted indirectly from the economies of scale that the popularity of Windows has provided.
It looks like now, even that may change, and I can cleanse myself of that uneasy feeling of "yeah, well, they *have* done something positive", which had until now been causing a noticable angst. Thank you, Microsoft, for freeing me of my last shred of gratitude or respect for you!
This is going to be interesting. If i recall correctly, the dutch personal privacy laws don't allow the automatic retrieval of caller information. (although is it allowed when you manually copy the number from one program to another, don't ask me why) Again, microsoft is doing something illegal. I wonder if they would disable the feature on the computers sold in the Netherlands, or try to change the law...
was locking linux out of the "desktop market", considering linux has no product to compete with this.
by that I mean a tightly integrated and easy to use dekstop. call me a troll if you like, but either this is not an area in which "we" want to expand, or we just aren't doing it.
I don't care personally, because I won't buy one whatever OS it runs, because I am a programmer, and this product is not for me.
Microsoft has been fighting a long war to remove any innovation or product differentiation in PC vendors. Microsoft wants conformity which is at odds with innovation. And as PC companies do try to innovate Microsoft doesn't want to be left out in the cold. A PC vendor that presents a computing value that is outside the confines of Windows is a threat.
Microsoft created the stagnant PC industry. And now they are trying to save it. Kudos to them! LOL
You mean the way Microsoft and HP/Compaq locked everyone out of making PocketPC's, TabletPC's and MediaCenter PC's? Microsoft has used Compaq/HP as their testbed/reference designer for new hardware platforms for years. They haven't locked anyone else out yet, what makes you think they're going to start doing so now?
Gates also plans to demonstrate a new scroll wheel and set of buttons for navigating Windows-powered devices with one hand.
Uh-huh...
"Windows Compatible" PC's have been on Microsofts mind since Windows 3.1. Just look at what happened to hardware, you now get Microsoft approved logos on just about everything, even on things like processors a'la AMD. In all fairness though "IBM PC" compatibility does n't really mean much for the vast majority of apps out there (ie Windwos apps) since the days of writing directly to the hardware are long gone. API compatibility is much more important than hardware compability. Of course it does mean alot if you are trying to run Linux on some strange undocumented hardware. For Microsoft this is the next logical progression. It gets to be a kind of Apple without having to be a hardware vendor. The only thing I'm wondering is if MS can actually pull it off sucessfully (WebTV anyone?)
Microsoft partnering with HP (aka Compaq, aka Digital Research...) in order to make some new proprietary PCs.
:
This means the following
if IBM doesn't buy Sunbefore HP (who's also mentioned), then the PC market will be dead because Microsft will reverse IBM's PC specs opening which led us to the OEM world.
Meanwhile, it would be a good idea to buy Apple stocks, because they'll be the only ones who will sell anyway.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Or can it?
I'm sure no matter what MS puts in this "new" hardware, the hackers will find a way to make Linux run on it no problem. They'll probably do some crap with signing the software, like on the XBox. The big questions are, will hacking it void your warrantee, will hacking it violate the DMCA, etc. Obviously no legitimate business is going to violate the law in order to get Linux to run on an MS computing appliance.
Anyway I doubt if it's really going to be THAT different from current PC hardware. In fact the core architecture probably won't be ANY different. What we're seeing here is probably a group of bundled proprietary officially supported USB devices or something with extra special attention paid to the drivers courtesy of MS. Basicly it's just an appliance computer, which like the iOpeners aren't really any different hardware-wise from real computers.
So in that case there's not much stopping any other industry group from getting together and setting other open standards for this type of operation. Sorry MS, but using caller ID to pull up a person's picture when they call is NOT revolutionary. The important thing here is that it's an integrated appliance system. It's not a tough system to implement, and I'm sure we could see decent OSS solutions pretty quickly.
I just wonder how proprietary the hardware and software components of this system are really going to be... I guess that remains to be seen.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
Nobody needs some stupid light on their monitor to tell them when important emails come in. That's what toolbars/docks are for.
The reason Apple's software/hardware works is they're working on a very limited amount of hardware. No matter what MS would prefer, they still have to build Windows to work with a lot of other manufacturers, not to mention a whole slew of peripherals, and work with a whole lot of third party drivers and whatnot.
Oh, and merging your computer and your phone? I don't care how stable they claim these things are going to be. I don't want to wait for a damn computer to reboot so I can use my phone. A regular analog land line phone will pretty much always be more dependable than a computer integrated phone.
Think hacking this stuff. Think adding a bios "upgrade" to allow booting of any OS. THINK, and don't limit yourself to M$'s intentions. (you could use M$'s bootloader to launch the linux kernel.)
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
In other news, Microsoft announced that their next release of Word will allow printing!
If there hasn't been a contact manager that hasn't allowed this for at least the last five years, I don't know which one. Unless .. Could it be .. Outlook?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
No, I'm not saying this is the end of it right here and now. But this kind of think is going to be more and more prevalent. General purpose computers, as Linux proved, can in the end be made to do anything, and are not going to be big money makers for equipment manufacturers anymore. With the upgrade treadmill slowing down big time (who, aside from the hardest of the hardcore gamers, actually NEEDS a 3 Ghz P4, or an Athlon XP 3000 in their home? Not too many people. Who aside from mass copyright actually needs a 120GB+ hard drive? Not a lot of people) they're realizing that they just aren't going to keep making money this way, because computers are appliances now. I don't think they'll go completely away, though they may be 99% laptops soon enough. What they're starting to realize is that devices are the way to go, because you can get an insane profit margin, and they appeal like crazy to most people, because people tend to be gadget maniacs. I don't know many people who don't have at least a single electronic gadget that they use regularly.
It's starting to happen. PDAs are finally starting to get good. Smartphones are starting to do relatively well in the States. The iPod. The Tablet PC. The Xbox, as gaming consoles have proved the viability of this type of model for over a decade. This is just the next step.
... to help computer makers develop a new generation of PCs and reinvigorate the stagnant industry.
Uhh... Last time I checked, the "stagnant" industry was getting a nice kick in the ass from the beautiful hardware coming from Apple.
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
Ok, the first thing that comes to mind is those network PC's I haven't heard bugger about since the big dotcom dive in corporate spending. If they were a good idea (well, maybe this isn't a well thought out argument, feel free to disagree) they'd be on a lot of desktops by now. Think how much it would save the PHB in tech support.
The comparison to Apple is a natural. But, IMHO, Apple survives because they have a loyal following and many of their innovations are just that, innovations, not copied like *cough* *cough* Microsoft does (Embrace and extend ... this always reminds me of the phrase 'share and enjoy'...)
Apple, as far as I can say doesn't try to lock users into their hardware/environment, mostly just happens, but similar software exists on MS Windows and Linus so users are free to leave if they choose. Athens appears a clear ploy to further lock owners not only into
Microsoft Brand Windows Operating System, but Microsoft software products as well, i.e. This product only available for Brand A computer, 'cause all the patents belong to us. Buy these things and you limit your options. Ideal for the manager who
wants to have absolute control, but like IBM's PS/2 systems, a real mess if you want to upgrade or change anything.
While the current PC is a pretty sordid mess, an open standard would be infinitely preferable, for system makers as well as customers.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
MS Marketing Guy : Our new plan is to create a proprietry hardware platform and lock the Linux rebels out of the desktop! This "Athens" PC will be the ultimate power in the universe!
Darth Gates : Do not be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to monopolize a desktop is insignificant, next to the power of the Source. (breathes heavily)
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
Ok, so I haven't actually ported linux to this thing but then I figure Microsoft can't keep anyone out of anything else so what makes this any different.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Has anyone else noticed that the wallpaper on that machine is strikingly similar to the default OS X wallpaper (strikingly similar as in exactly the same from what i can tell)
yuk.
details at gov.va.msn.?net? (VAST)?
lookout bullow. the next big thing is almost guaranteed to be softwar gangster payper liesense BugWear(tm) free? we won't get fooled again?
But don't we all know that Microsoft isn't exactly compatability friendly. Heck, you can hardly even get two versions of Office to work toghether.
I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
One thing I've never understood about Microsoft is its constant creation of new "architectures" for computing. WinCE, PocketPC, the myriad XP deviations, .NET, Longhorn, Shorthorn, Dairy (sorry)... honestly, could someone explain why every computing application requires a rewrite of the OS and specialized hardware? Is it because of the separation between hardware and OS developers? Is it some limitation of Wintel-compatible architecture (there's that word again!) that requires new specs every time you want to do something as simple as integrate devices? Is Windows really so crufty that you can't extend it without redoing it? I see GNU/Linux being quickly reconfigured to run on widely-differing devices all the time, and as a MacOS X-head, I can appreciate how a well-rounded base allows you to put just about anything you need on top. So why can't Microsoft develop an "architecture" with the same capabilities after all these years? Is it something in their corporate culture? In the Redmond water supply? What?!
One of the big misconceptions is that HP does not support Linux. We actually do, it's just that we don't market that fact well. HP does have a desktop offerings with Linux installed. I'm assuming that HP will play both sides of the fence with separate offerings...
It may also help the company fend off competition from Apple and freely shared software.
Just the picture of MS fighting off Apple and open source makes me laugh.
Microsoft (and Intel, and now HP, give them their credit as well) have been pushing and prodding the hardware guys into progress for more than a decade. The problem is that most hardware companies have no vision, no desire to innovate, no sense of design.
I've been to every WinHEC for the last few years and every year Microsoft is urging the hardware vendors to drop the legacy stuff. ISA slots suck and make Plug-and-Play a miserable experience, but we're only now seeing their complete and total death in new products. Microsoft and Intel pushed the standards to get rid of them.
Most PCs are built from standard components with standard dimensions and standard interfaces. Everything is interchangable. That decoupling has made the PC industry great and driven prices way down, but the Apple counterexample shows what tight integration and some design sense can buy you in both hardware and software. Both Microsoft and Intel would like to see a bit more innovation going on, and WinHEC is one place that they try to make their case.
...can it run Linux:-)?
locking Linux out of the desktop market
Ah, the usual Slashdot-spin tagline. Gotta love 'em.
PCs have become messes, and it's a worthy goal to try to deal with that. Kudos to Apple for taking some steps in the right direction, such as eliminating floppy drives and switching to LCD monitors for home models. That's just the beginning. PCs are still based around what's essentially become pointless upgrading, something that is now completely ignored by everyone except a certain set of gamers and hardware fanboys. (If you aren't shooting for bleeding edge games, any video card made since 2000 and any sound card made since 1995--including motherboard sound--is just grand.)
Linux, for me, is only worthwhile if it improves the overall computing experience. It does that well, for some things, but for others it has become a retro object d'art. Perhaps the most damning thing about Linux is the hugely conservative community surrounding it. Cries of "If you want change then _you_ do it" and endless arguments about sticking with Emacs and the X11 standard are all so inbred and meaningless. I will make fun of Microsoft along with everyone else as long as Bill Gates & company are stagnant and producing poor products. But as much as I hate to say it, they're moving forward with some interesting ideas. Sure, those ideas aren't original (what is?) but the key is that they have a direction and purpose.
Like a rich uncle sending a check when the cupboards are bare
yeah, more like a rich uncle who has some goons beat the shit out of the grocery delivery man, then straps you to a table and feeds you cold oatmeal with cat urine and roaches in it.
While calling your mother and telling her that you've gone on a health-food kick.
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
This post is a troll.
This is yet another attempt at total desktop control,
Man, all these guys want to do is copy Apple!
This was bound to happen sooner or later. Microsoft, Intel and AMD are ALL anti-OpenSource, yet x86 has been the primary architecture for Linux and other OpenSource programs. How did you really think it would be before those three companies were going to lock us out? It's their hardware, they were going to control it totally, it was just a matter of time.
What the OpenSource community needs to do is rally behind another architecture to ensure its survival. This can either be Sparc, plain-vanilla PowerPC systems, or both. Linux's dependence on the x86 architecture will spell its doom otherwise, and for any semblence of competition for consumer OS's besides Mac. Fortunately, all programs written for Linux will work on all Linux-supported architectures, and if they don't, they can always compiled on these architectures.
Personally, I'm ready to give up dual-booting into Windows, games, etc, if it means that I don't have to pay the Microsoft tax, or having Ashcroft/FBI/CIA monitoring every single keystroke I make on my PC. I'm also ready to give up the funky multimedia stuff and even new digital content if I can simply access the internet, write, compile and run my own or OpenSource programs. I'd rather have liberty than new toys.
Hopefully, Michael Robertson and LindowsOS will see this comming and make a deal with a generic PowerPC motherboard manfacturer and start porting Lindows to that architecture and quickly. It's the only hope left for free (as in speech) personal computing.
This space left intentionally blank.
There's the old joke that M$ Windows 95 is a 32-bit patch to a 16-bit shell to an 8-bit OS from a 2-bit hack. And how far have we come? Besides ramping up speeds, the structure of the PC is the same. M$ is one of the few players who can bump up the industry to a new architecture. This is a good thing. Intel is realizing all of this & they're giving us the new i875P M$ is saying that people aren't buying PC's so they have to create something new. This goes against the whole Borg mentality of M$ taking over what people have already done. Please don't begrudge the money to do this (it was yours to start with).
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of **insert current Slashdot topic**. Sweet!
What makes me sick about this article is not Microsoft's intentions to lock down the PC architecture to its own specifications, it's that a supposedly independent journalist has written a piece which is little more than a press release for the company.
I mean: "Like a rich uncle sending a check when the cupboards are bare, Microsoft today is unveiling an ambitious plan to help computer makers develop a new generation of PCs and reinvigorate the stagnant industry." Anyone would think MS is the new Santa Claus, driven not by desire for profit and market domination, but pure hearted generosity and compassion for all the poor, poor computer manufacturers.
When reading these comments people keep saying, oh yeah wanna see how fast Linux people hack this computer.
.NET and the rest that do not).
Well, you raise a really interesting point. You cannot hack into these machines BECAUSE of the DMCA. The printer toner cartriges are an excellent precedent for this.
What will be the outcome? I think a two tier approach. Companies like HP trying to desparately improve their bottom line. See the pattern here? First they are cozy with IBM, then Compaq, then Dell and now HP. MS is only cozy to those that do their bidding and that typically lasts about five years. Notice also how is dying and who is gaining? HP!
The two tier has already been developing among programmers (those that do
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
... a computer that is a computer? I had a crappy all-in-one Acer PC with the monitor embedded in it, and I couldn't update it for beans. Why do I want it to have a phone, glowing panels, and further enroachment into my workspace?
Do I really want my monitor shell to pulse when I get an email? Are you out of your mind? How is that supposed to make me more productive?
Do I really want Athens throwing a Borg arm out to the rest of my deskspace?
How do I fix this thing if it breaks?
How hard is it to enter a user name and password over a fingerprint?
Just let a device be a device. Let it alone already.
T.
This space for rent.
Yeah, Hitler was an evil fucking psycho who killed millions, but give him credit!
I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
You have lost the debate.
I could have sworn that Red Hat was going to be on the new HP's? Now what Micro takes that away from the Linux community? *cough-monopoly-cough*
Cynical Q - not a coward lol!
But isn't it against Microsofts settlement with the courts that it can't manuafacture its own line of computers that will run only its software??
To make a better computing experience for your customers...Develop a Better Operating System!! But no, they want to engulf hardware now.. How much you want to bet customer support people will hear this? "Yeah, I uhh...my computer just crashed and now my case turned a bright shade of blue with a skull and crossbones on it..." Well, at least it might be a cool way to give out those stupid system crash errors....
Best death? What, die from a naked lady avalanche?
Profit.
Is it me or that blue streaked background (shown in the article's picture) is originally from OS X ?
Sure... this is not a clone of the iMac...
The ENIAC Demo Competition
Here's my favourite quote from the article:
It may also help the company fend off competition from Apple and freely shared software.
Poor little Microsoft, trying to eke out a living on the fringes of the computer industry, threatened by the monopoly held by Apple and their free software buddies!
Seriously, though, there is something to be made of all this. Long-term, Microsoft is legitimately threatened by free software. This is why they are getting more and more into hardware, like XBox and services, like HotMail. They are moving their software away from a purchase model to a rental model.
Things could get very interesting when a critical mass of Microsoft's customer start realizing that something like MySQL is actually superior to SQL Server, and look Ma, no price tag! If we think Microsoft acts loutish now, wait until they are legitimately threatened!
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
Who wants to put money on the first Linux port being rolled out with the name Sparta?
Microsoft wants to work with hardware vendors earlier, as soon as they create new PC technologies, so that they can synchronize hardware and software development and produce better computers.
The goal is to make Windows-based computers more consistent, easier to navigate and able to provide a better computing experience, Gates said in an e-mail interview.
It sounds like the goal is to homogenize the hardware/OS into a single, unseparable entity via technology--already done in legalese by the MS EULA.
"The PC industry has been incredibly successful over the years, but hardware and software development have sometimes been a little out of sync," he [Gates] said. "The best way to advance the state of the art is to work together even more closely, always starting from the customer's perspective and focusing on the combination of hardware and software that works best to create an innovative and compelling next-generation PC."
That's fine and dandy, but coming from Microsoft, it's a tough pill to swallow. How does buggy, security-hole ridden software come from the customer's perspective? Granted the code is so complex that writing bug-free software is damn near impossible, but I would much prefer that debugging has a higher priority than the addition of new (and largely unused) features.
This just doesn't smell right, but I can't quite decide why without going overboard into MS-bashing.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
I'm switching to a Mac before they get there. Yes, Apple controls the hardware and software, but they're not trying to control your lives. Bill Gates won't be happy until the time when he has complete control over our entire lives.
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
They're discovering that the more promiscuous systems are, the more ubiquitous they become. Until Linux came along, MS was the slut of the bunch, easy to acquire hardware, easy to get hold of software and cheap software, easy to use.
No longer the case. Linux is now the biggest slut and like IBM with MCA, in order to control the market, MS will have to try to lock people into their systems. It has absolutely no chance of success, but they'll try anyway.
Basically, it's over, they've lost, they may not understand that yet though.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Can someone please explain to me why people here complain about MS being like apple and trying to lock linux out of the desktop, but I don't hear the same people complaining about Apple? Double standard!!
With patented DRM (Digital Rights Management) they will use there legal might to stop Linux, as Linux will not be DRM approved.
.. we will see.
Now will IBM go to bat for Linux
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
Well how about OSDN or RH or Lindows invest a coupla billion dollars of their money, pair with some big company capable of producing decent hardware (Sun?!) and do the same thing.
After all, Linux should be more than capable of this - it's a proven, reliable and universally liked desktop OS. So I'm sure the combination will sell like popcorn and provide some much needed competition for the Great Satan.
I mean, gawd. A business plan and money to back it up. How dare they.
IMHO: This re thinking of PC design could be a good thing. I keep looking over at what Apple is doing and wondering why can't PCs aren't keeping up.
I think I bold idea would be to split the PC architechure in two: the first completely open much like it is now. the second would have stricter requirements of what must be present in the machine (ie. firewire, usb, no legacy ports, high speed graphics, bluetooth, etc.)
The second standard would be a certification. That most PC builders would design in accordance to for the typical home and office setting. The first would be reserved for servers and specialized workstations.
The specifications for 2 should be completely open and revised semi annually. The committee that creates it should also be open (intel, microsoft, adobe, FSF, redhat, ibm, etc.)
I have to run, i hope this get's modded up so others can comment on this.
Yeah, like they used the XBox to lock Linux out of the video game console market.
They would block *nix and any other OS buy making it illegal for you to put those OS's on the box. How? same way they did with xbox. It took illegal mod's in the begining to run linux. The same steps will be needed on this computer. Think of the xbox as a training ground, the DMCA as there weapon. They will find some way to track the use of the computers and who is no longer using their computer (they own it) in their aproved method(s).
They are Microsoft, resitance (will be) futile.
Crackers`n`Soup
I tend to base my servers on oldish kit anyway, because if I buy a machine half the speed of the "state-of-the-art", it will cost perhaps a quarter as much. Then I can buy four. Who gives a toss what users want to put on their desktops?
I wouldn't label AMD as against open-source software. It should be noted that the first 64-bit OS ready for the Opteron wasn't Windows, it was Linux. We're still waiting for the Opteron version of Windows, in fact.
Intel, I'm not sure if they care either way. After all, there are definitely major resellers out there who make Linux workstations. IBM is getting a reputation as a Linux-friendly company, and last I heard it was true that most of IBM's Linux boxes run Intel chips.
The only company of the three you've mentioned which is decidedly against open-source is Microsoft, and that's because it threatens to unseat them from their monopoly. They can put the squeeze on AMD and Intel, but they aren't (yet, at least) at the point where they can force CPU companies to only allow Windows on their systems, or where they can force computer manufacturers to toss Linux out the door.
excuse me, what MS needs is Linux because any linux enabled office employee knows that there is no way of installing that game without root priviliges 8)
This was bound to happen sooner or later. Microsoft, Intel and AMD are ALL anti-OpenSource
Excuse me? Intel have done quite a lot of work that has benefited open source projects, including giving away a large volume of library code. AMD might not have openly espoused open source, but they have frequently encouraged open source projects that use their technologies (we had a substantial amount of cooperation from them on the NASM project when we were implementing the 3DNow! instruction set, and I understand the x86-64 linux port got quite a bit of help as well). Microsoft is the only one that deserves to be on that list.
What the OpenSource community needs to do is rally behind another architecture to ensure its survival. This can either be Sparc, plain-vanilla PowerPC systems, or both.
While I admire both of these systems for their elegance and power, I wouldn't seriously suggest that this move would be a good idea. Why? A quick browse suggests that a 500MHz Sparc processor would cost in the region of $2000. While I appreciate that this probably outperforms a 1GHz pentium, it hardly competes in cost. PowerPC G4 seems a little more competitive, I can see 500 MHz processors for under $200. I'm not sure how these compare speedwise with pentiums, but the same price will get you a 1.4GHz Pentium III. I doubt the PowerPC chip can compete.
Fortunately, all programs written for Linux will work on all Linux-supported architectures, and if they don't, they can always compiled on these architectures.
That's not quite true, although they should if they have been written carefully. I suspect there are quite a few that don't, though.
I see the settlement with the DOJ has really put an end to monopoly abuse. Since they can't use licensing to stop the hardware guys from installing other OS'es anymore, they'll just make sure the hardware won't run other OS'es.
They give their OSes out for free, I believe, after they release the next version anyway. Microsoft won't even let DOS 2 into the public domain.
Yes, Apple does make some prior versions of Mac OS freely available, but it's still not "public domain" for several decades.
Will I retire or break 10K?
In this paragraph:
It may not be a coincidence that the Athens PC resembles an Apple machine, with rounded corners, a translucent case and a flat, wide display. HP executive Louis Kim acknowledged the similarities, noting, "Apple is on a similar track in that they're designing with the end-user in mind and they're integrating hardware and software."
Translation:
Apple good. Me big, me take!
Kinda funny how they say that apple is on a similar track. Its more like they built the track.
Free speech is getting expensive...
How about "Ignorant fear-mongering"?
I think the biggest reason why the industry is slumping is that most of the people who want a computer at home have one. It does what they need it to and they do not have a compelling reason to blow $1,000 every year or two to keep up with technology. Year before the year before lasts computer is fast enough and reliable enough for what they need. I don't think HP cloning Apple with M$ software embedded in it is going to make them change their mind.
For the geeks, however, the extra horsepower is used probably as much as it is desired. These same people, however, are the least likely to want to be bundled to M$. I think M$ would be better served to make what they have work without the requisite ripping out of hair every few days.
Another $.02 into poverty...
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
after much hacking around, you finally persuade this new machine to run Kazaa. You double click on the app, and suddenly the phone rings..."Hi, this is Hilary Rosen of the RIAA. Please cease your illegal activities immediately, or we will connect you straight to the local police department. Have a nice day..."
They fit together better
They can make radical changes which require support from both sides, without going outside the company.
"Microsoft-like" means MS has a monopoly on the software, so they can tell the hardware guys what to make to maximize MS profits. This means:
They fit together better, because MS has to implement fewer options
There will be less radical innovation, because the hardware guys will have to get MS' blessing to sell anything really new to the lucrative corporate market that is the main target of this controlled architecture.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
They are on the multiple standards commuties and have helped bring USB and cd-roms default on all pc's.
Computer stores carried hardly any USB devices until Apple (not Microsoft) started selling iMac computers.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Or whatever you want on it. You can easily take any recent mac and install Linux on it. Why don't most people? Probably cause the default OS is better.
x86 wouldn't cease to exist, but without Microsoft producing windows for it the market will shrink.
What's the difference between a X-Box and a PC? Custom bootloaders, strange BIOS?
One acronym: DMCA.
One corporation to rule them all.
Main HD, spin up.
It's you!
How are you Gentleman. All your kernel are belong to us.
Compile you say?
You have no chance to link, make your time.
Ha Ha Ha.
(Incidently, it's set up us, not set us up)
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
click to download Redhat ISO.. "I'm sorry Dave I can't let you do that"
That would be suicide. CNN and Fox News would murder Microsoft's reputation for such a brash action.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I'm suprised no one noticed the new strategy being implemented.
Nothing was called "Open Source" on the webpage for Linux. It's all called "freely shared", as in illegal music files.
It might be my paranoid side talking, but that was the scariest part of the article, not trying to lock out Linux, but making it sound like "freely shared" is a BAD thing (It's illegal to "freely share" MS Office, or Windows, or MP3's).
the Boogeyman of Redmond isn't really hiding under your bed...
Duh. He's hiding in your computer.
And he's watching you.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
you finally persuade this new machine to run Kazaa ... "Hi, this is Hilary Rosen of the RIAA. Please cease your illegal activities immediately"
"What illegal activities? I was just downloading some free software, and that's not illegal."
Will I retire or break 10K?
It reminds me of MCA too.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
This sort of 'appliance' is the future of computing for the masses.
Most people don't want a big confusing monster on their desk, they want it as simple as a toaster and as disposable as a Bic lighter.
Not that *I* like this future for my home, but we are heading towards it, step by step.. We are already there in some businesses ( aka: terminal server/winterms ), but home world will take some time to catch up ( or is that : to come 'full circle' back to the days where computing was done in the backroom, and you just had your little display window to view it.. the way it should be really in a business environment ).
It only makes business sense for them to push in this direction. Nothing sinister implied in their actions, just market control and maximizing profits. its what a business does.. ( or if it don't, its not a business much longer )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
If purchasing permanent copies of recordings "does not allow the RIAA's sponsers[sic] to collect enough money", then how the hex did Apple manage to strike a deal with major labels and music publishers to offer their works in the iTunes store?
Will I retire or break 10K?
<spleen>Gee whiz. Microsoft and the new hp collaborate on a "concept car", and Taco makes it sound like Bill and Carly invaded Torvalds Manor and took Linus' family hostage. Is Michael ghost-writing your articles now, Rob?</spleen>
This sig intentionally left blank.
Making a PC more "Mac-like" would create a computer that undermines the reason for the success of a PC: commodity.
While Apple's boxes aren't particularly special or different from PCs in basic parts (RAM, power supply, hard drives), the three core differences: processor, motherboard, and bootware, define what that box is and how it interacts.
Now, a PC bought today can still, in all likelihood, run MS-DOS 6.2, 3.3, Windows 3.1, or Windows 95. That is because the PC architecture hasn't really changed to the extent that operating systems and hardware are markedly different, speed improvements and interface additions notwithstanding. A PC has always been extensible, but such a new box may find it hard to get third-parties to make their hardware work.
If Microsoft were to build a Mac-like PC, they would need to make or use a smarter boot firmware. Bye-bye to the typical BIOS we know and love. That action alone would require various Linux distros to rewrite themselves for the new firmware. OK--not a biggie. Linux users did that for the Mac version of Linux. Next, the motherboard would need changes to make it smarter and work with the firmware. That's a lot of OS changes I presume, although IANAP.
Plug and play devices are still a laugh, and it would be the one thing I hope a plan would fix. Microsoft tried to dictate hardware changes during Windows 95's intro, and most of it was for the best. But even today, Windows takes several minutes to determine what the hell you have in your box. A Mac never goes through this process--at least not in a way that you are aware of. Plug and play on a Mac just works.
I don't know. I get it, but it seems that they are fighting a larger animal--the inertia of the marketplace and a desire to stay and do what they are doing. New stuff is shunned unless it looks like a gold mine. And this isn't golden, IMO.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
IBM didn't control the OS.
It comes in blue to match the screen
No Production == Bad Idea
Bad Idea == Bag It.
Uh-huh. The public has a super track record of not eating whatever Microsoft is serving for supper.
I'm relieved...
That's funny, Taco, being that you use an Apple Powerbook.
If the laws of the Netherlands prohibit the normal action of the software bundled with this new PC, then Microsoft will probably just "region code" the system not to work in the Netherlands.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Who cares if they come up with this??? You don't have to buy it. It's not like you have to buy a car and it comes bundled with this shitty PC. This is a free market. If the people want it, they will buy it. If not they will axe it. What is the big deal???
On the other hand they might come up with something that is cheap, reliable, and fast (emphasis on might). Does that worry you even more?
Try to buy a workstation with Linux and it costs $70 US more than Windows and it is RH 7.3, you know, the version where support ends in December.
http://www.smb.compaq.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?Pro
...or a stock analyst, or an economist, etc.
If you want to talk tech (which you likely know more about than economics), then lets discuss oh,
the iPod,
being able to actually bring *nix to the desktop,
releasing the first decent online music store, etc.
And thats not counting all the advances made before Jobs' return.
the government does it all the time, it's called "stroke of the (bribed) pen, law of the land". When is the last time you could buy a new scanner that got cell phone freqs? You used to be able to buy one legally, now you have to jump through smuggling hoops or be a leet modder. Heck, they even mandated some TV specs so you couldn't tune in to some freqs. They "passed a law". When was the last time you could legally put a no BS carb that actually worked efficiently on your car? You can't now legally, although you can get "off road" carbs, if you are caught with one installed and driving on the road it's a serious fine and/or your vehicle gets seized. I have an example right now with my jeep, the stock legal carb just sucks large donkey nuts, it never works correctly, I KNOW from networking with 4 wheeler guys an off road carb works better and makes less pollution because it will stay inside specs-but it's "illegal" to install one. So, I haven't, don't want to take a chance on having my vehicle impounded. How about the classic watching a DVD legally on your linux box? You can't do it legally.
They pass laws affecting hardware all the time, it's a constant with bribed "government". They could EASILY pass a law stating no such and such styled MOBOs can be produced or imported into the US unless they had these "security features" installed that would restrict you and identify you in various ways. They could also go so far as to restrict any non complint hardware from accessing the internet, enforce it at the ISP and telco level, making your older tech obsolete, forcing upgrades, or making you take a risk of a label of being a criminal, subject to..whatever. They are just getting rolling with busting the P2P swappers, think they are going to just stop now?
It's all doable. That's what all these new super DMCA styled laws are all about, applying it to exact hardware specs is the next logical step for "them", them being the monopolists and the opposite side of the demon siamese twin 'government". And they got the buckets of coin and people with bad attidues with guns to make it happen, and you don't got the buckets of coin and personal armies to make it *not* happen, complain as you might, in most cases anyway. You might "get away with it" for some time as a scofflaw and flaunter, similar thinking has lead to over 2 million people in prison today,the vast majority of whom thought they were "leet" enough to "get away with" various drug possession and transfer. Stupid laws, yes. Enforceable? yes, to any level the government chooses to enforce them. If there's a buck in it for someone,and especially a cartel of someones with stealth monopoly on their minds, they will pass and 'enforce" whatever they want to, constitution be danged with those people. It's a joke to them, and every one knows it.
The goons have a way of making things happen in their favor, it seems to work for them. They use the carrot and the stick approach, and unless your carrots are much bigger and juicier and your stick much harder and faster, you will lose,and they will win in the long run.
Xbox? That previous story was right. Xbox was just an experiment in Microsoft propietary systems. Now they are making the aggressive move. Well, we'll see if people like not having choices. My major problem with this is: Why should people upgrade to 2ghz propietary machine if they just want to use the internet/word process. Heck, people are STILL ok just using a 700mhz machine. 700mhz is perfectly adequate (I still have one in my living room, word processing, internet, even the sims!) I'd be really surprised if people were willing to part with their cash for 1.5 second speed increase when they open internet explorer...
When IBM released the PS/2 and OS/2 at the same time in a bid to lock out clone makers and Microsoft from the desktop?
The parallel here is so close that its amazing, particularly since Microsoft has now become the huge monolithic company instead of the plucky upstart that wants an open standard.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Prepare for invasion! You have 48 hours to leave the country, starting three days ago. You and your corporations will be liberated!
A telephone that hooks up to a number that pulls up contact info? Sounds like a softmodem that has access to a evo-like api.
Thumbprint access? A small usb hand scanner with a watermarked or fractal-ized image of your thumb.
Hardware standard? Sounds like something that should be included in many Linux Boxes (something that says. . . (this hard ware is guaranteed to boot Grub, lilo, read foobar card and access through whatchamacalit protocol).
These are GOOD ideas! There is nothing wrong with wanting new technology to mesh with new software.
The only bad idea is having MS hold an exclusive right to work woth hardware vendors to sync their new technology. The only good thing is that it is only with the large Computer manufacturers, and I don't buy from them.
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
I presume you meant "... mass copyright infringers..."
I do.
I exercise fair use rights (questionably in the U.S.A. because of the DMCA, but clearly now that I live in Canada) and move ALL my CD and DVD content to a home server. Even with .shn lossless compression (for the audio), this still requires quite a bit of space.
I, however, have not, do not, and will not, violate legitimate copyright laws (i.e. redistribution to others of copyright material I have with permission).
You could've hired me.
ugh, you people are retarded. Microsoft KNOWS it's operating system crown jewel is doomed, they are not dumb. They are merely diversifying into HARDWARE, such as this, the XBOX, the SMARTPHONE, the Tablet PC.. this is just the begining. You think you've won? HA!HA!HA!HA! Think again. Microsoft will be around for a LONG TIME to come. Even if Windows does die!. why? Bill Gates is smart, that's why. They know what's going on.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/403124954.j pg
Go them!
- Sighuh?
Whatever this does to the PC industry, it will certainly drive up the price of PC's. With MS putting the iron glove around the hardware, low cost computers will be a thing of the past.
"My break dancing days are over, but there's always the Funky Chicken" --The Full Monty
What you folks may be missing is that efforts like this could actually help Linux, by decreasing the variety of crap that the Linux kernel guys have to support. If PC hardware becomes more uniform, it can greatly simplify the writing of drivers. If driver interfaces become more regular and less baroque, it might even be possible to get a Linux kernel (under restricted circumstances) to use a closed-source driver written for Athens.
I am firmly convinced that even though people can't figure out to do the simplest tasks on their PC, they will *always* figure out how to get dancing gorillas on there.
I think you can take off your aluminum foil hat for now, the Boogeyman of Redmond isn't really hiding under your bed...
Of course not - they are behind Windows.
badum-tshhh. Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
'"They control an important piece of the industry, and beyond that they have a lot of vision about the way they think things should go," Kay said.'
When has Microsoft ever had vision? Every idea they've ever had has been stollen or bought from somebody else. Oops my mistake - they did invent the iLoo.. no wait, I remember a bar that had Internet terminals in the John back before Microsoft even had Internet Explorer. Microsoft may have vision but they are in bad need of some glasses.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the real motive is designing a machine with a DRM core. It will run only 'CERTIFIED' binaries. This certification process totally breaks the GPL. Binaries you build yourself would be functionally worthless because they would not be certified; it would require an application vendor to build and have binaries certified by a certificate authority. DCMA puts anyone who reverse engineers the platform in prison. The computer will run only MS OS's, anything else would be both illegal and useless. The DRM machine will also refuse to talk to other machines without DRM cert's. This is a very real and scary future. Many people have commented that the death of the general-purpose desktop computer is already on us. God bless Apple for making beautiful and useful products, but they have proved the commercial viability of this model. Connect the dots to the next generation of PC hardware.
And yet, when he puts his money (in the millions) where his mouth is and is doing something which could potentially destroy the monopoly, is is shot down for his OS running as root out of the box, and is bitten to death by backbiting and nitpicking from the very "community" that should be doing everything it can to bolster him.
Way to go, thats the way to resist assimilation; argue against and beasmirch anyone that is actually trying to bring an alternative to the masses, then whine and bitch some more when MS gets even more powerful by creating hardware that is illegal to reverse engineer so you can run your favourite distro on it.
Wake up!!!!!
You're exactly right. This is not news. This is a nightmare. Those iMacs aren't looking so bad anymore
..but I think everyone is getting it bass ackwards. That fine cinched it for me. the fix got put firmly in. It was beyond a jokeski. Government-behind the scenes, tells microsoft what to do, to obfuscate the origins of some of the more draconian steps they are taking. Look at it in conjunction with all the other weirdo laws they are passing, it's part of it. The public "conviction" was a joke and a ruse. Microsoft being the 'default' computer system is where they concentrate their efforts. There would be a larger hue and cry against any such schemes if "government" all by itself just announced ultra closed and hackable by "the man" brand machines and OSes as 'the law', but by sliding them in via their co-opted company, they can accomplish it with greater ease and deniability, calling it "normal market forces,and we need 'security' you aren't a communist and an e-vile hacker are you?". Like that there.. I mean, how many high level bosses REALLY want to go to the slammer when they get an offer they can't refuse, and WHAT might they agree to to avoid that fate? That's a pretty easy couple of questions to answer, with odds of being probably correct on your first guess.
So, is everyone getting fired up over news or embelishments to news? Athens is a prototype system, with a lot of PR-spin behind it. Companies display prototypes all the time. It's nothing to get bent out of shape over.
Alright Alright - I'm a MS user and have been since DOS... Why?? Because I can use my files on an apple, on linux, sun, and even an SGI machine. This isn't because the file structures are perfect rather that everyone sits around and bit*hes about MS but no one does a damn thing. I have used linux and honestly I MUCH prefer it over MS. I am writing this on an Apple at work and honestly, I MUCH prefer it over MS. I know that some of the Linux developers are poor college students who have WAY too much free time. But I also know that there are some WEALTHY developers out there.
Why don't these WEALTHY guys stand up and build a system -> design a Linux Kernel SPECIFICALLY for that system -> Include all the hardware and software -> Develop something to defeat the dependency issue -> Then sell it. This is VERY similar to what Apple has done and I applaud Apple - I would own one if I could afford it. Hell I'd own a dozen before I'll buy another PC.
Then I think: Damn I'll have to pay for software....
I think it's GREAT that they're targeting amputees, and it's about time. My uncle lost his arm in a piece of farm machinery and found windows impossible to use.
Now it'll be really a good idea when they come up with a retina-tracking mouse so my poor one-armed uncle can Netscape his pr0n while jerking off.
You WERE talking about amputees, right? ;)
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
More like "a crack team of international mercenaries in the emply of the mpaa/riaa/ashcroft who will break your door down then keep you in solitary confinement in Cuba for daring to even think about going against the United Corporations of America(tm)."
Who needs Cease and Desist letters?
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
If you, guys in HP, support linux, then where are Linux drivers for your scanners?
Don't say words - prove it by your deeds.
Less is more !
"The Athens PC has a built-in telephone linked to Microsoft's productivity applications. When the hardware receives an incoming call, the software automatically pulls up the caller's contact information and photo if the data are stored on the system."
Wouldn't it be great if I could do this NOW, on my laptop, with my cel phone in my backpack? Oh wait, that's right, I CAN, on my PowerBook.
Instead of trying to make their stupid operating system
not crash or attract viruses, they want to improve the
office worker's life by slapping a phone onto their PC, so
when the PC crashes, so does the phone. Wait, then you
can't call tech support. Genius.
Slashdot never fails to amaze me.
m l
To be honest, this proposed product isn't something I'm going to want. Someone else may, fair enough. I don't see whats wrong with that.
Its pissing in the wind to suggest the average poster will ever drop their paranoia about Gates et al., and yes they fight cut throat, but they are afterall a company. For crying out loud; stop trying to ascribe personal motivations to every move they make. There is as much complexity to MS's movements as pac-man. Make money. Make more money. Repeat. This is achieved by saying "we make the best stuff" repeatedly and bringing out new products at regular intervals. Buy-out or otherwise compete with your rivals as hard as you can, possibly neglecting the law in the process. The end. Theres nothing sinister about it. Not even Marx imbued the processes of capitalism with a moral dimension. Its just how it works (and if you are in work its almost impossible that its not this process that in some ways put food on your table). How are any other companies any different?
To summarise the above: No, its not fair. Deal.
For a geek-friendly take on this (a few years old I know) read Stephenson's essay:
http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.ht
Microsoft will try to get it's foot in the door, very slowly, but then very fast..and, they will use their financial, patents, and brain-washing to maintain it. With current issues on poor quality softare (read microsoft os, server software etc) microsoft will use this as an excuse to make futher changes to pc architecture, say in several revisions from now, make it virtually impossible for any alternative OS, programming language, even hardware design languages (maybey). to work on common pc hardware. At that point, the only thing worth learning in computer os's, ai, games, any type of programming people will learn at school, in books, on the tv, net ect will be microsoft because nothing else will work on pc's any where on this planet. I can even foresee the day, when we get very sophisticated nano/biotech, that any "computer" nano/biotech design language of the future will have a very strong microsoft component to it (because, by then, most people will think it's natural that microsoft knows everything).. (trust me, I know, somebody I know, casually told me that bill gates invented basic, because they were not aware of basic's history, they just thought that because the first pc came with basic, that bill made it)!!
Given Microsoft's and HP's track record with computer hardware, there is nothing to worry about.
That missing comma makes it sound like you mean Maclike = anti-linux and we all know that's not true. Be careful, someone oblivious to these things might see the page and think you meant something else.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
I hope they do make a "Maclike" pc, which just as the Macs will be overpriced, undersupported by the software industry, and not overly popular.
The PCs are very popular because of their open architecture and any attempt to close it has failed. I guess the most noteworthy failure is that of IBM.
Well let me qualify that -- the Macs are not really a failure, or to put it better, they are an ever decreasing failure that will soon turn into a success, as the Macs are progressively turned into really good looking PCs.
But then again Microsoft and HP do not have what Apple has -- the millions of fanatical fans willing to buy anything they put out. These fans have allowed Apple to survive and to eventually learn from their mistakes. Now they have learned from their mistakes and are slowly but surely embracing PC architecture.
So yes, it will be a failure.
Are we surprised?
I mean, if you're putting out crap, you may as well try and make sure you've got something to force people to buy it.
MS clued into this strategy a long time ago.
HP is just finally catching up.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
"Need I remind you that Microsoft was found, in a court of law, to have ABUSED THEIR MONOPOLY? Let me say that again, since your troll-ish ears are obviously too small: MICROSOFT ABUSED THEIR MONOPOLY. THEY WERE FOUND GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW."
Oh I get it, this is satire. You're illustrating the point I made about crying wolf. Good job! You nailed it in a wonderful sarcastic tone. Kudos!
"Derp de derp."
After all, if x86 is no longer a viable platform for open source users, we will all have to go back to our Sun boxes, just like in the early days of he open source movement.
Beep beep.
I work at a government office and we've stopped our WinXX upgrade cycle at W2K because, we cannot not 'upgrade' any app or patch which includes a EULA that gives MS the 'right' to invade our firewall and access our hardware or files. The IRS wouldn't stand for that. While/If I have IRS files open I have to record the names of anyone who walks pass my office on the possibility that they might see someone's personal tax information and use it illegally. So, it doesn't matter how many thumbprint devices a user has to press on in order to turn on and log into a computer if a Microsoft drone can sneak in through a back door and replace files or rummage around and look at/take sensitive data.
By now everyone knows that MS is already "phoning home" with your personal data requlary. Now, the newer EULAs give them the 'right'. Microsoft also grants itself the 'right' to change those EULAs and increase their 'rights' (and diminish yours) without notifying you. It is up to you to visit various websites and preview EULAs and then decide if you want to abide by the newest conditions or remove previous patches and further decrease the security of an already woefully insecure OS.
If there is an attempt to "undersell" these new computers, that is, to sell them below cost, Microsoft would be in for some serious legal mumbo-jumbo. It's one thing to use a Desktop OS monopoly to undersell video game consoles. It's another to use a Desktop OS monopoly to undersell Desktop PC computers.
Well, actually, both are illegal, but what the hell. Not like the masses care, as long as they get their $299 computer.
MORTAR COMBAT!
If the low success and high price of tablet PC's is any indication, then MS is just wasting their money.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
"That Microsoft received less than a slap on the wrist isn't the issue here--they were found GUILTY."
I hate to tell you this, but the slap on the wrist they got is very much at issue. The reason they didn't get the breakup order is because it was found, IN COURT (since you're so fond of that) that MS did not illegally create a monopoly. They were guilty of illegally maintaining it, but not creating it. In other words, the market wanted them to be the leader. Once they got there, they wanted to stay on top. That's a slightly different story from the one that's commonly told around here.
Boy, that must hurt. I can see why you were trying to dodge the 'slap on the wrist' ruling. As Jim Carrey said, "It's devastating to my case!"
"But don't let the truth stop you from your kneejerk defense of ignorant behaviour."
Linux made its way into the Xbox, and can easily make it into any system that is based on x86. Should Microsoft move to a non-x86 architecture it will be the best thing that ever happened to Linux, Apple and Sun. Microsoft will never shift from x86, and Linux can always be made to boot in face of any mod chips and drm technologies..
If nothing else, a win32 version of loadlin could be made that will replace everything in the memory with a linux kernel and boot it. All the while people would stick to their clone PCs trying out Linux once in a while. I think Microsoft execs have been smoking some Redmond grass and need to see the only leverage they have in the market is the huge pile of x86 code that wont execute anywhere else. Theres really no other reason for people not to move to Linux.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
i wonder what effects this will have on the much vaunted horizontal integration buisness model of the pc oems.
will each major oem will develop its own proprietary pc bus technology in cooperation with microsoft? will there still be open hw standards for connecting peripherals?
it rather sounds like ms and hp are trying to reinvent something akin to ibm's microchannel architecture for the ps/2. i hope they are every bit as successful as ibm was in this endeavor.
--TRR
I don't think they'll go completely away
Luckily, we can still get our general purpose Linux hardware from VA Linux. Oh, wait...
...and they want their "shocking revelation" back.
Seriously, this has been going on since Windows 3.1. Magazine empires have arisen (and fallen) around passing off MS press releases as "journalism". Just ask Will Zachmann what happens to those "journalists" that don't tow the line.
for so long i'm all for any type of innovation that shrinks my system down. Flat screen - cube case - whatever. I just don't want to have to deal with carrying a 3+foot steal tower around when I go gaming at friends houses.
Ave Molech Setting
If MS puts DRM on it, people won't be able to run their old software anymore. And, AFAIK, software vendors aren't in any deals with MS to sign their software just yet.
This will not happen, simply because there are more than enough powerful computers out there that do the job more than fine.
You don't like the new Athens PCs ? well, buy a previous generation Athlon 2600+ (for example) which has more than enough power for almost any desktop application.
PCs have reached a saturation point. Unless everything is made with Java, the current generation PCs are more than enough.
Heck, they couldn't lock Linux out of their game-console, what makes them think they can lock it out of a desktop PC?!
<i> PCs have become messes, and it's a worthy goal to try to deal with that. Kudos to Apple for taking some steps in the right direction, such as eliminating floppy drives and switching to LCD monitors for home models.</i>
Think of ALL the old software theyre breaking by removing the floppy. We cant part from old standards because the whole computer industry is built around it. You cant turn an 18-wheeler too sharply. Think of USSR's turn from communism to democracy and think of Chinas turn.
<i>PCs are still based around what's essentially become pointless upgrading,</i>
When people upgrade, they dont just want to get a new computer. They want ALL the software they ran on the old one to run here too. Its peoples past experiences being carried on in a new machine. Its not just a new computer. The Be Workstation was such a beautiful work of art, and it didnt run Zeliard or Civilization. People couldnt chat on MSN with their friends, so whats the point of a new machine? Its not just about the push for the future, its the unescapable influence of the past. Its why EVERYONE doesnt just switch to Linux.
<i> something that is now completely ignored by everyone except a certain set of gamers and hardware fanboys. (If you aren't shooting for bleeding edge games, any video card made since 2000 and any sound card made since 1995--including motherboard sound--is just grand.)
</i>
Youre right there. In fact I actively look for older soundblasters so my fav DOS games work. They have trouble with soundblaster emulation with the newer $150 cards.
In fact this is why on-board sound and video is a success, people dont need fancy stuff to write something in ms word.. or openoffice. But you must admit the soundblaster audigy sounds sweet with mp3s, and the radeon card plus a 19" monitor is some serious fun. I'd spend there if I had the dough. I would even dare to call it progess, since theres no other direction for progress.
<i>
Linux, for me, is only worthwhile if it improves the overall computing experience. It does that well, for some things, but for others it has become a retro object d'art. Perhaps the most damning thing about Linux is the hugely conservative community surrounding it. Cries of "If you want change then _you_ do it" and endless arguments about sticking with Emacs and the X11 standard are all so inbred and meaningless. </i>
The whole social structure of Linux is different from microsoft. In a capitalist place, you cant complain about what you havent paid for. Will YOU fix my tokenring drivers?? And make a new DRI driver for my old card? Its this package that comes with using Linux, and most Linux users are happy with it because theres no real alternative, pay microsoft and some hardware will still fail. And they dont just make something you ask for.
Linux for you is something that does some things better than windows, choices to be made, but youre asking for a paradigm change, or just ranting randomly. If youre asking for a paradigm change in computing, read the top para about turning too fast, market momentum. You cannot pry people out of their outlooks and lotus notes, and civilizations and ultimas and bash command lines and network neighborhoods.
<i>
I will make fun of Microsoft along with everyone else as long as Bill Gates & company are stagnant and producing poor products. But as much as I hate to say it, they're moving forward with some interesting ideas. Sure, those ideas aren't original (what is?) but the key is that they have a direction and purpose.
</i>
Ok now I know youre ranting randomly. 2 days ago I booted knoppix on a clients system just to download network card drivers from the internet so he could use the internet. The whole family loved the look of KDE and I ended up giving them a cd copy.
Who is more innovative in networking now. Think of tridgell's work on Samba, and its improvements over SMB. The free software communitys crawling
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Probably not in the way that HP, a crappy hardware manufacturer, and Microsoft, a relentless business, intend, but that's what you get when the PC industry can't discipline itself.
And five years of Linux with still barely any credible desktop options... well, you open source geeks did it to yourselves. Prepare for conservative computer economies. Computers aren't that fascinating, and the average user wants an out of the box solution for computer, car, phone, etc.
Get over yourselves.
"...and locking Linux out of the desktop market."
CmdrTaco should choose his words more carefully. The above statement makes it sound like MS is making sure Linux won't run on this new pc architecture, which was not stated, or even implied in the article. The only statement in the article about Linux mentioned trying to fend off competition from Apple and freely shared software.
Vote for Pedro
move to canada! - email@themusicgod1?hotmail.com
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Why doesn't linux take the same tact?
Where can I get a motherboard that doesn't have a bios. The motherboard just searches for the first boot device and boots of it.
Just pull out the chip and ports that handle floppy drives. Get rid of ISA/PCI ports. Keep an IDE, NIC, and either Serial, USB, or Firewire. Build in your video and audio hardware. Ba-Da-Bomb you got a new Linux machine that isn't burdened by legacy hardware and can kick the snot out of MS's new machines.
Really that all MS's new machine is. A PC with an embedded version XP and doesn't have all the legacy hardware and a security chip.
BTW: I still want that linux motherboard.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Not to mention DRM. Yes, a "more controlled" architecture. So the record labels and the movie industry can push signed media on you. It's coming. TCPA, Palladium, you name it. Think I'll buy PCs from China.
1) Who wants a computer system where MS can dial in and pull up all your info? Is the world not calling for security and privacy?
2) Why HP? I want an AMD64 based system.
3) This sounds like MS is going to give HP a sort of OS that will only run on certain hardware. No longer will the consumer decide what hardware is the best. And what if I want a Dell ? Do I have to pay more for the hardware just to run MS?
Nobody asked for this.
HEY BILL
How about giving the customer what it is asking for:
Secure and reliable software.
Privacy.
A 64bit OS that runs on a low cost solution like AMD so I can play more powerful games.
Who the hell asked for a proprietary hardware software computer ?
If I want that I will get a MAC.
Oh well at least Linux64 runs on the new AMD 64, perhaps this is when MS will lose most of its market, while it is busy working on crap no body even wants.
Here are some pictures of a prototype on the MS site: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/events/winhec/g allery.asp
We have 30 of the X-Class HP desktops.. every one has had a failed HD, MB, Ram, CPU, Video Card and 2 floppy drives.. all within 1 year of getting them.
HP has the issue of most people knowing their computers are garbage.. I doubt Microsoft throwing in more weight will fix that issue.
I have a mouse at home which came with a CompUSA PC back when I still bought PCs assembled. It has an EULA taped to the wire.
It basicly stated that this mouse was for sale/use only with a new computer...
Basicly the same microsoft language you used to see on there OEM OS cds. (This was in the days when PC's came bundled with W98 first edition
Sounds like Microsoft is teaming up with hardware vendors to ensure their practice of forced upgrade extends to your computer too. Now when you want to upgrade your OS, you'll have to buy a new system too (not just memory, hard drive) because Microsoft Windows 2006 isn't approved for MS/HP WinCPU 2003. Neat.
I give the gurus a week before linux will be running more smoothly on it than windows!
This has happened allready in eighties. Any one remember MSX machines? Same pattern here?
jk
It very interesting the direction that Microsoft is going. They have this habit of making it very clear what they intend to due very far out because they believe that no one will beat them to the punch. The XBOX2 will be in the market before the PS3. They won't make the same mistake twice. This new pc design is just one piece to a bigger puzzle. Longhorn will be another. You are going to see a convergence of several seemingly abandoned products. Ultimate TV XBOX - Not really abandoned, but no current threat to PS2. Media Center PC The Athens design and Longhorn will be the binder for these technologies. They already said that work on DirectX will stop until they get the titles to run from the DVD just like an XBOX. Also, they are working on a standardized PC game controller just like an XBOX. The only thing that the MCE pc's are missing is the ability to seamlessly integrate a DBS tuner. They have this from the Ultimate TV. You throw in a DVD, it plays. You throw in a game, it plays. Just a little technological commentary.
You don't see people designing hardware specifically for Linux?
How does design a computer specifically for an OS make the OS better?
Whether it makes the overall PC + OS combination better, that's to be seen.
However, you won't see me running to get one. Designing a computer for a certain OS instead of fixing the OS is a cop-out.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
I think what Microsoft is aiming at is NOT a closed architecture per se, but more like better standardization of the design of the interior of the computer itself in a smaller form factor, a machine that is designed for better communications by telephone and broadband Intranet/Internet connections.
Expect within a few years smaller form factor desktop computers that follows the HP-Microsoft Athens ideal, even though the motherboards will likely sport different CPU's, motherboard chispets and video chipsets.
... very carefully if you happen to get one of these "Athens" things. Maybe MS will do this like their OS: "We'll be nice and let you use this for the low price of [insert cost here], but you don't actually own this, so technically we can take it from you at any time we want."
I'm sticking to Linux and x86 PCs because I actually OWN them!!
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."
Also Microsoft used NT-4.0 to kill UNIX and MSN to kill Aol, it use netbios to kill TCP/IP.
Right???
Apple for taking some steps in the right direction, such as eliminating floppy drives and switching to LCD monitors for home models.
Err...okay, I'm not sure what your hangup is with CRTs (still better color accuracy, brightness, contrast, higher frame rates). LCDs are sharper and show less flicker. Each is good for different tasks -- for gaming or movie watching, a CRT is slightly nicer, for emacs an LCD.
As for *Apple* dealing with the problem, Apple has had more crummy legacy hardware lying around than anyone else for years and years. I remember for years wishing that NuBus would *die* already...
and endless arguments about sticking with Emacs and the X11 standard are all so inbred and meaningless
What's the problem with using X11?
I will make fun of Microsoft along with everyone else as long as Bill Gates & company are stagnant and producing poor products. But as much as I hate to say it, they're moving forward with some interesting ideas. Sure, those ideas aren't original (what is?) but the key is that they have a direction and purpose.
Their interesting ideas consist of adding telephony to the computer (been done by *lots* of people before, including your buddy Apple) and a one-handed input device (also been done by lots of people...stuff like the BAT)?
Frankly, I've seen a lot more new and interesting ideas in KDE and GNOME than I have in Windows.
May we never see th
Ok - here is the link to the article and some paragraphs from it. Just to clarify - They are NOT locking Linux out of the machine - they are trying to lock Linux out of the desktop market. The way this machine does that is by having extra gadgets that use MS software and integrate into MS OSs and into MS applications. Nothing in the article says you can't install Linux on this box - it's just that some of the built in stuff won't work or won't integrate into your word processing software. That's all. And, it does look like a mac..... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstech nology/134689749_winhec06.html
The Athens PC has a built-in telephone linked to Microsoft's productivity applications. When the hardware receives an incoming call, the software automatically pulls up the caller's contact information and photo if the data are stored on the system. ...
Microsoft's vast resources aren't the only reason PC makers may embrace the new approach. Coordinating development of machines and software they'll run may lead to better-designed machines with more consumer appeal.
That's the approach taken by Apple Computer, which develops both software and hardware in-house and is credited with numerous innovations to the ire of Gates and other leaders in the Windows PC industry.
It may not be a coincidence that the Athens PC resembles an Apple machine, with rounded corners, a translucent case and a flat, wide display. HP executive Louis Kim acknowledged the similarities, noting, "Apple is on a similar track in that they're designing with the end-user in mind and they're integrating hardware and software."
But he said the Athens was designed for functionality, not fashion.
"There was no intent to try and mimic Apple here," said Kim, HP's worldwide director of marketing for business desktop computers.
>
HP and Microsoft have long worked together on new computers, including handheld models and more recently the Tablet PC and a Media Center PC with special music and video controls. ...
Developing jazzy new machines that are deeply integrated with Microsoft products also shores up the company's defenses against the recent arrival of low-priced PCs based on the freely shared Linux operating system.
locking Linux out of the desktop market.
:-)
Oh, I thought Linux was already managing to do a pretty good job of locking itself out of that market. Thanks for the help anyway
Ok - here is the link to the article and some paragraphs from it.
e ch nology/134689749_winhec06.html
Just to clarify - They are NOT locking Linux out of the machine - they are trying to lock Linux out of the desktop market. The way this machine does that is by having extra gadgets that use MS software and integrate into MS OSs and into MS applications. Nothing in the article says you can't install Linux on this box - it's just that some of the built in stuff won't work or won't integrate into your word processing software. That's all.
And, it does look like a mac.....
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesst
The Athens PC has a built-in telephone linked to Microsoft's productivity applications. When the hardware receives an incoming call, the software automatically pulls up the caller's contact information and photo if the data are stored on the system.
...
Microsoft's vast resources aren't the only reason PC makers may embrace the new approach. Coordinating development of machines and software they'll run may lead to better-designed machines with more consumer appeal.
That's the approach taken by Apple Computer, which develops both software and hardware in-house and is credited with numerous innovations to the ire of Gates and other leaders in the Windows PC industry.
It may not be a coincidence that the Athens PC resembles an Apple machine, with rounded corners, a translucent case and a flat, wide display. HP executive Louis Kim acknowledged the similarities, noting, "Apple is on a similar track in that they're designing with the end-user in mind and they're integrating hardware and software."
But he said the Athens was designed for functionality, not fashion.
"There was no intent to try and mimic Apple here," said Kim, HP's worldwide director of marketing for business desktop computers.
**Yeah - right - it was an accident**
HP and Microsoft have long worked together on new computers, including handheld models and more recently the Tablet PC and a Media Center PC with special music and video controls.
...
Developing jazzy new machines that are deeply integrated with Microsoft products also shores up the company's defenses against the recent arrival of low-priced PCs based on the freely shared Linux operating system.
Thank you for saying the thing which Slashdot seems to be trying to avoid.
Microsoft has taken a few good turns recently.
Microsoft working closer with hardware vendors to get faster implemented USB 2.1 support or even a radical simplification of the PC specification is a great thing. Combine this with the previously announced reduction in the number of API calls from 79k to 8k, and the drastically needed updating of the file system, and you have the makings of a Monopoly realizing that what it sells is garbage and it was time that was fixed.
Quite frankly, it is far less insulting to be enslaved to an evil monopoly with a *good* product.
I do, however, wish they didn't start this initiative with HP, the company built by the lowest bidder. I guess I'll have to wait for the next revision for them to get it right.
The ______ Agenda
There's a lot of it about; Linux, Lindows, Apple, Sun etc. If people dont like what MS are doing then they will move, they will just stop using the software. It's really that simple.
"fear-mongering"?
So... That's what they call the truth these days.
You may not like it, but just the same - we are losing a lot of rights - faster than you can jump and click your heals.
This is just another M$ attempt to make a new 'xbox type' technology. They can't stop us from modifying them although it is illegal to. All this will do for pc's is give MS the right to sue you for making an overclocking device. Not to mention if they make all proprietary parts, they can use their monopoly focused interests to manufacture new parts that are only compatible with 'their' boxes and only approved suppliers may make parts.
Don't worry the fair use laws are here to protect you.. Oh, no wait - that's only if your a company...The end users don't matter and should go to jail for using hardware they bought in a way they want to... Wait a minute... NOOOO!!!! When did the US become a dictatorship??
Microsoft wants to help hardware and software industries work together at the earliest stages of development to aid innovation.
The word innovation when used in this context surely means stifling competition and increasing control. I supervise 20 Windows users all day long and use a Dell laptop and WindowsXP at work, and don't mind Microsoft so much as long as I don't have to pay for it personally. But the words innovation and Microsoft are like the words oil and water.
"There was no intent to try and mimic Apple here,"
Just to show how much I think of poorly concocted PC imitations, I bought a used Titanium Powerbook two days ago. PC's are fine, but copying Apple usually leads to desaterous results until Microsoft gets it right, usually around the third try.
Remember Palladium, or whatever warm-and-fuzzy, PR-friendly new name they gave it? Tight integration of hardware and OS, but not for a superior user experience-- for Microsoft, so they can lock out any software that they don't like.
Well, now they're going to try to sneak in the hardware-OS integration that Palladium needs under the guise of "improving the user experience." Suckers will fall for this, and then they'll be fucked when they try to use their computer in a way that Microsoft doesn't approve of.
When will you people learn to stop giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt? If they come up with something that can be used to control or extract more money from their users, then that's exactly what they'll use it for.
One massive, money-grabbing, inflexable company (MS) was unable to 'destroy' Linux so now they think two of these companies can do it? Guess they haven't realized they're going in the wrong direction yet...
The GEEK shall inherit the earth...
...does it run Linux?
Microsoft is unveiling a new approach to preventing hardware incompatibilities. It's launching a support network for hardware developers modeled on the support program it has long had for software developers.
Wow I hope it's as disorganized and poorly designed as MSDN is. That would rock!
Apple has said it was trying to create "something so completely different from what Microsoft was doing that what happened in Redmond wouldn't matter" ... and true, Microsoft let slip the niche market for really slow computers that look like large white boobs, and shies away from wildly misrepresenting its products (Steve Jobs tends to mis-pronounce the number "three," as in "hours of battery life in a new Power Book," or "USB ports on an iBoob," as something which sounds remarkably like "five." Huh?)
Don't get me wrong. Linux rocks, and I would love to see it succeed, but I had to put it down for a while because my laptop often wouldn't wake from sleep, and the ability to switch users in XP is cool. (And before you bash that one, remember that Apple is putting user switching in 10.3). The fact is, Microsoft bashing is easy - just copy a Slashdot comment from one MS discussion and paste it into the next. Making a better PC (or Mac, or Linux box) is much, much harder.
...that Microsoft made its gargantuan profits off of making PC's viable to the common user, and is now doing its best to limit the functionality of the common user's PC to that of a standard VCR.
How badly some, if not most of us screamed at the thought of the X-Box? It's pointless when you consider the tech/knowledgeable person, vesus the common joe computer user, is pretty high. In fact so high, that they slow down real innovation. What's now considered innovative, is more user-friendly.
BeOS.
... that's +1 (Satire)
Is this really the best shit that the giants at HP and Microsoft could think up?
This really smacks of desparation. Anyone who wants any of those things can just get the bits from their nearest PC store and plug 'em in. That's the whole point of PCs - that people can use them for what they want to use them for.
If the open source community could build a machine with those features, that could prevent anything else from running on it, backup data to a central web server and even "protect the machine from the user" (so no software installs), and would preferably boot as quickly as possible and self-repair via a central update site, most of them would be very, very happy.
When IBM released OS/2 and the PS/2 it was in collaboration with Microsoft. In case you've never looked, there's this thing called Microsoft OS/2 1.x out there. And there was a long period during which Microsoft's development tools were all dual targeted at DOS and OS/2. I have a version of MASM that has a seperate diskette for the OS/2 stuff. The 'anti-Microsoft' thrust of OS/2 came later after Microsoft decided OS/2 was a loser and forked the code to come out with NT. And even then Microsoft included an OS/2 1.0 subsystem on NT.
Incidentally, you can't spell.
The next 'holy warrior' for whatever is trendy this week in Open Source gets a blow job from Dick Stallman.
Look on the bright side , the same systems brought the PS/2 sockets ;)
Why are we running os's on hard drives? They will soon be on encryption based
embeded chips that can only be flashed with updates through authorized M$ locations if
you want a new OS. If any part of the startup procedure finds an unverifiable chip on your
M$-only hardware, all chips in the system are disabled until you go to a M$ authorized
location. Modems would not be supported - only broadband connections.
--Power button pressed
bios starts boot sequence:
bios sends boot cmd to power-supply - verify/unlock/startup
bios sends boot cmd to case and cpu fans - verify/unlock/startup
bios sends boot cmd to cpu - verify/unlock/startup
bios sends boot cmd to hd - verify/unlock/startup
bios sends boot cmd to ram - verify/unlock/startup/load bios based drivers
bios sends boot cmd to nic - verify/unlock/startup/load bios based drivers
bios sends boot cmd to soundcard - verify/unlock/startup/load bios based drivers
bios sends boot cmd to mouse - verify/unlock/startup/load bios based drivers
bios sends boot cmd to keyboard - verify/unlock/startup/load bios based drivers
bios sends boot cmd to videocard - verify/unlock/startup/load bios based drivers
bios sends boot cmd to OS-Based-Bios - verify/unlock/startup/load -loads operating system
bios sends boot cmd to M$-Office-Bios - verify/unlock/startup/load -loads M$ Office
%%background action(establishes connection through broadband to M$ authentication
server to verify your within your term of use contract for the OS and version of Office, which
expire yearly and if your Office license expired it will disable it, likewise if the OS license
is expired the system ceases to function until you take it to M$ authorized upgrade location)
**system starts up and prompts you for your M$ passport login information
%*verifies your login through the internet of your M$ passport id and password used
on M$'s server and then starts to load your desktop, email and messenger applications
ALL user side commands would be generic and would not give away internal command
structure within the code - and the internal systems would not reply to anything but the
generic command structure. Only the chip designer and Bill Gates would know the internal
commands - not even the programmers, as they would only be given the 'generic
commands' the OS would be permitted to use. Chips would the chip's designer would
manufacture all chips personally, in-house at M$.
Gates also plans to demonstrate a new scroll wheel and set of buttons for navigating Windows-powered devices with one hand.
Ever wished you could navigate web pages using only one hand? Ever longed for a device with a scroll wheel and a set of buttons? Well, wait no longer! Microsoft's innovative engineers have surpassed the technology barrier once again!
Introducing - the Microsoft Mouse (tm) (pat pending)
...a Beowulf cluster of...
Whups! Sorry, wrong script. Uhhh.... here, how's this? Micr0$platt Suckz!
Did I spell it right?
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
that sounds like the least innovative and most stultifying country to live in in the world. If not now it will be in the near future.
Immigrate to Uganda.
While you and I know that the DCMA is American law, the real question is: Do the Americans know that?
Wow such a good idea from the people that made the flounder known as XBOX. What was the last figures of how many XBoX's were sitting in warehouses? Something like 4 million!?
75% of all statistics are made up!
Is it me or is HP getting closer and closer to Microsoft? I've noticed this especially since the merger.
MS have a good idea - they need to take control of the hardware in order to put out a better product. This is what Apple does and it works for Apple. But M$ don't make hardware. Enter HP. I think HP are after some kind of 'special relationship' with M$. If HP becomes Microsoft's hardware arm it lifts them above all other PC vendors - if you want a 'real' Microsoft PC you'll need to buy HP. Everyone else - Dell, IBM etc will become 2nd tier vendors. HP will be the preferred PC vendor Microsoft products - and therefore the preferred PC vendor period.
MS gets to control the hardware platform.
HP get to provide the hardware platform - maybe even exclusively or definitely first to market. Boosts their PC sales.
All this makes me more reluctant to buy HP-UX boxes or HP linux boxes. I'm sure there will be less and less energy directed to this line over time.
Mark
Why would anyone want to use a text editor that is not vi?
well... how many of us are acutally gonna buy one any way. it is not like ms can wipe out all other OSs and hardware.
It's DRM w/ a new nick peeps. Same shyte different day.
BG received so much bad press and such a response from the opposition that he changed the name.
Don't be fooled. This is the "PC" the RIAA and MPAA have been begging for!
Envision "Thought Police", think of this every time this lamerz P.O.S. dials out to the Gate's Ranch in Redmond.
HH
It's DRM w/ a new nick peeps. Same shyte different day.
BG received so much bad press and such a response from the opposition that he changed the name.
Don't be fooled. This is the "PC" the RIAA and MPAA have been begging for!
Envision "Thought Police", think of this every time this lamerz P.O.S. dials out to the Gate's Ranch in Redmond.
Maybe Hillary Rosen is just BG in drag?
HH
You can bet the hardware will all be proprietary with exclusive Win system commands.
Too bad the future of home computing has been perverted by monopolists.
I say blow the junk out of the water with HAMMER and a chip based version of 64 bit LINUX that will boot from pci non fixed non mechanical drive, or a bios that will boot usb using a 1 gig memory card. Given that the Linux desktop is getting easy enough for even the most brain dead user to get a handle on, it's time some really enterprising high tech firms get the picture.
Yes you can take a big chunk out of Windows buisiness in one heck of a hurry if you are willing to innovate. Something which MS relies on others to do, then buys them out or stomps on em!
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Will there be a "Troy" PC? Can the makers of the "Troy" PC send the users of the "Athens" PC a wooden optical horse, err mouse?
Various "market experts" have been predicting the downfall of the general-purpose comptuer for quite some time now. I suspect it's right up there with cold fusion and useful voice recog - it'll be about ten years away for upwards of 40 years. I would challenge anyone making this prediction to think carefully on the killer app for the PC, and how this relates to the interface. What do we use the PC for? Well, essentially, writing. It might be writing on a message board or forum, it might be writing the Great $country Novel, it might be a letter to your grandmother - it doesn't really matter. The thing is, the only viable interface that has ever been sugested for this is the PC as we know it - a pretty big screen and a keyboard, sitting on a desk. There are other options, to be sure, but can anyone imagine those options as anythign more than a supplement to this basic interface? So long as we keep the desktop-type setup, then "appliances" will always be redundant, supplemental to the computer but not full replacements. And so long as we have this *thing* takign up our desk, we're going to want it to be able to do all the things that those wonderful appliances can do. And, on top of that, we're gogin to keep demanding ever more functionality. Sorry, I just can't see the general-purpose comptuer going away anytime soon - if ever.
Female Prison Rape in NY
Microsoft discovers Voice over IP and makes a microphone that nothing but clippy can use. Oh well, running VoIP without permission from the cable company will be forbidden if it's not already. It's amazing how a few vultures can wreck a good thing.
The prospects of this gloified apliance - zero. If you want a computer that does everything for you, you buy a mac. This computer, locked down, dumbed down and inflexible, is different from the other failed appliances by the things M$ learned from Xbox. It's going to bleed money just like previous appliances and the xbox.
M$, you are toast.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
And every year some poor dumb company has tried it and failed. The last example I can think of is a little all in one LCD from Gateway. It came with everything the average desktop user could want and it failed big time. Not even corporate types were dumb enough to shell out money for something so inflexible that it will have zero worth in a few years and zero prospects of working.
I'm not sure how this is different from efforts like that and these "appliances" that all failed so hard. Oh yeah, M$ will have their name on it so it will be trusted like winmodems. Best apliance ever. Ha! Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Anyone who wants an all in one, "I don't have to do a thing to it" computer is going to buy a Mac.
Compaq is in a position to lose lots of money? Good look, suckers.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If you would have wrote PostgreSQL, well that is really superior.
But MySQL ?? I'm glad Postgres has finally acknowledge the necesity of a windows version wich is due this year.
MySQL... bah !
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
Microsoft might have been behind OS/2 but they were NEVER behind PS/2. Most of their revenue was from the ISA clone makers. No version of MS-DOS (afaik, up to 98SE) ever worked with MCA and more than 16MB of RAM.
Seems like a challenge. Who wants to create a FOSS-architecture?
Lesson learned: Some mailing lists only get regurgitated 1 hour later.
who, aside from the hardest of the hardcore gamers, actually NEEDS a 3 Ghz P4, or an Athlon XP 3000 in their home? Not too many people. Who aside from mass copyright actually needs a 120GB+ hard drive? Not a lot of people)
I do.
I own a Sony IP-5 MicroMV video camera. I records directly to MPEG2 format. One hour of tape is alot of gigabytes. I've recorded many hours worth.
Video editing need alot of CPU. Have a look at videocdhelp.com, it has lots of tips to help to edit and save without the computer interrupting the task - basically disable everything but the program you're using. A fast CPU really helps.
I may be an early adopter, but soon almost everyone will have a digital video camera and will be editing using their PC.
Who will need a 3Ghz P4 and 120GB+ hard drive - probably your Mom, or your uncle, or brother, or you!
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
they have no sense whatsoever - but they do have popularity to keep. this balances it to somewhat depend on which party suggests it... that sounds not good, tho :(
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
is it standard to take a mix of what they have and what Macintosh have.. mix it together and add a few extra blinks and buttons here and there?
:)
oh..wait.. why am I asking
probably that blinking (and annoying) "you got mail"-diode will only work if you have a signed version of ms outlook
- I choked on the red pill and now I'm stuck in limbo
Exhibit A: Apple Lisa. Apple's attempt to control hardware, OS, and application software gives them 100% of a $0 market.
The prosecution rests.
Nobody at all was behind Microchannel. It was hated, along with OS/2, by all the traditional PC-heads. We viewed it, correctly, as IBM trying to close the architecture, put the genie back into the bottle, because they couldn't control the clone market.
You won't find a history of anybody except for IBM shills and apologists who championed MCA when the PS/2 came out. It had it's technical merits, but it was a closed architecture, and people figured that out almost immediately.
Also noteworthy is that until a few years ago there was no MCA support in Linux. A PS/2 box with MCA was basically plastic and metal scrap to Linux enthusiasts.
Microsoft subsidiary Apple will die.
I bought a hp notebook that had some hardware that would only work with the supplied hardware. As soon as I discovered that I couldn't get drivers for an earlier OS version, I returned the crippled machine.