Not really, I'll be 54 in a few weeks, I just used that line as a headline because it ryhmes with "when I'm 64".
I have played computer games since the early 70s. I was old enough to go to bars when Pong showed up in them. I love to play games. I also love to write them. I was part owner of a small game studio in the early '90s and I teach game programming. I'll bet I have spent more time writing games and reading the source code for games than I have spent actually playing games.
I really hate most modern games. Oh, I can sit and play tuxracer for hours. And simcity has been known to keep me up all night. But, most modern games just aren't any fun for me. RTSs are fun, and addictive, But they take so long to play and so long to learn. I have yet to see an FPS that was anything but wander around and kill stuff. I like wandering around, but there are trails and malls and cities for wandering around in. And, I don't like being shot at or having to shoot at everything that moves. I've been shot at and I've shot living things (I used to do a lot of hunting and stopped for moral reasons) and it isn't to be taken lightly. I played D&D from the orignal folded paper pamphlets and loved the game. Modern RPGs are too complex, take to long, and get boring really fast. MMOGs... well, I have to much to do to be able to participate in a clan. Wondering around on your own just gets you killed. Seriously, I got over wanting to be a Captian Kirk, Luke Skywalker, or a 10 level troll warrior (best character I ever had) a long, long, time ago. I want to be me, not pretend to be some famous fake character.
I'm a martial artist and at 54 I can move faster than many of the younger people I train with. Maybe that is why I don't spend a lot of time playing games. When I have a couple of hours to kill I can spend that time training or meditating and improve my real mind, body, and spirit rather than adding phoney points to made up stats. OTOH I have run into console games that were impossible for me to play because I do not have the thumb dexterity of people who have been playing consoles since childhood.
I still go into game stores once in a while and look around. I read reviews of games. I keep hoping to find games that I want to play, but it looks like game companies either to not care about my demographic, or it they do, they do not understand us well enough to write games.
I understand that you support RedHat, please understand that I do not.
The total damages that I suffered because of RedHat's actions are far beyond the limits for small claims court. Just the lost time puts the damages into the $10,000 dollar range. You clearly didn't believe me when I told you that I have talked to a lawyer about suing them.
Three other small business owners chimed in to tell us that they too were injured by RedHat. That proves that people who make these decision read slashdot. The majority of businesses in the US are small businesses.
So, you have heard of the concept of freedom of speach, but you do not support it. That explains everything you have posted... People like you make me want to puke. At least Coulter and Moore care enough to try to change things. You don't even support the basic rights that make it possible to have the kind of dialog represented by Coulter and Moore. Instead, you are right there trying to force us all to say only what you approve of. Disgusting.
You believe what you believe, I understand that and accept it. I believe what I believe. My beliefs lead me to think that you are misguided and that your continued support of RH is hurting you and the whole community. I used to be an RH fan, I ws wrong and I paid for it. I hope you will think about what RH did to thousands of customers and think about why you continue to support them.
The reason I haven't sued them is that it would cost me more to sue them than I can hope to recover from them. I spent the time and money talking to a lawyer about suing them. As a result suing them would hurt me more than it hurts RH. I am sure they knew that when they decide to steal from their customers. I hoped that some greedy lawyer would put together a class action suit against them but that doesn't look like it will happen.
OTOH, posting messages reminding people that RH stole from their customers is a cost effective way to hurt RH.
I am curious why you care so much about getting me to shut my "fucking trap"? But, I am even more curious about what kind of person you are to think you have the right to tell me, or anyone, to shut up about anything. The right to free speach is one of those things I am willing to fight and die for. It would seem that you are not familiar with the concept.
Wow! I do not understand your point of view at all. RedHat robbed me. Denied doing it. And then refused to even talk to me about it. And you think I should just... what? Forget about it? You tell me I have "emotional bagagge". Oh my?!
People who willingly allow themselves to be vitimized and take no action to defend themselves are in serious need of help. You might try finding it, or just accept that you will live the rest of your life as a door mat.
I, on the other hand, will do what ever I can to get back what was stolen from me, If that isn't possible I will do what I can to keep other people from being ripped off the same way I was.
As for the complaint that this discussion is about Fedora, not RedHat... What can I say, Fedora is nothing but a way for a RedHat to rip off the entire community for free testing, integration, and development. You can not support Fedora without supporting RedHat.
I will admit that I have a chip on my shoulder. I was a happy user of Redhat. I loved it. It was reasonably priced, it gave me a reliable way to maintain my OS and it just worked. I chose RedHat after testing several other commercial versions of Linux. I had a whole shelf full of boxed Linux distros before I finally settled on RedHat. I was a real fan and a strong supporter. I bought your boxed products and paid a subscription fee for support. I was the kind of customer I would love to have.
Shortly after I had paid the one year subscription fee for your support network your company sent me an email that basically said, we don't want your business, and oh bye the way, we are keeping your money and cutting off the service you just paid for. Your idea of compensation was to offer me a discount on the same product at a much higher price. In other words, you robbed me and then tried to extort even more money from me. You are nothing but thieves. Even Microsoft has never actually taken my money and given me nothing in return.
After that experience I was forced to waste time seeking a new distribution and converting all my computers. The time cost to do that was much greater than the dollar value of the service fees you stole from me. If you count my lost time and revenue I am out several thousand dollars because of you. So, you might say I am a little bit biased against your company. I wouldn't actually spit on you if I were to meet you face to face, but I would like to.
OTOH, I found Debian and found that I had been paying RedHat for something I can get for free from Debian. Recently I converted my desktops and laptops to Ubuntu, an even better solution than Debian, and again for free.
So, considering that there are better versions of Linux available from honest organizations, organizations who have never robbed their customers, I have to ask WHY DO YOU MATTER. Aside from suckering stupid big companies into over paying for your software, what service do you provide that is even worth the time to read about?
Just remember that Yahoo and AT&T are already deeply in bed with each other. They have been partners since long before SBC bought AT&T and assumed that name. If you will recall, SBC bought and destroyed on "portal" company. After that debacle they decided it was best to partner with someone and they picked Yahoo. Remember that they call their DSL service AT&T Yahoo! internet.
Rember that SBC has been trying to destroy the Internet since the Internet destroyed their plans for a monopoly information service.
I teach C++ and a class called "Game programming and graphics" at my local community college. I've been doing software development for more than 30 years and have used every type of development environment there is. I have read debug info using a magnifier to inspect the color of individual pixels that were set by firmware as it booted up. Programmers will learn the tools required by the job at hand or they will be replaced. OTOH, when learning to program you want to reduce the distractions as much as possible. You want the students to spend their time programming, not worrying about the details of their development environment. For that reason I prefer to have students use an IDE. Hey, I use emacs and that is a pretty powerful IDE all by itself.
In my classes I have taken a very liberal approach to this question. I let the students decide for themselves whether to use an IDE or not and which IDE to use. I want them to use tools they are comfortable with so they spend their time programming. As a result of my policy I have had people in my classes using DeV-C++, the free versions of Visual C++ as well as the expensive versions all the way up to the pro version with an MSDN subscription, Emacs and make, and one fellow who used a nice looking IDE on the Mac. (So far about 85% of students are on Windows, 14% on Linux, and 1% on the Mac.)
The problem I run into is that every student expects me to help them with problems they run into with the IDE they have chosen to use. I get no end of complaints because I refuse to help students with problems with their IDEs. No teacher can be familiar with all the IDEs that are out there. It is a pain to try to keep up with just one or two. How are you going to help them with problems with Visual Studio Pro if you don't own a copy? How are you going to help with Emacs if you don't know it?
My suggestion to you is to pick a single cross platform development environment that you are used to and knowledgeable about and require that the students use that platform. It has to be cross platform because you are at a CC. The reality of community colleges is that a lot of your students are lucky to have a computer at all and they may not be able to get a different kind of computer or even a different version of an OS just for your class.
I'll make a couple of other suggestions, be prepared for nasty calls from parents who have already laid out $1500 dollars for VC++ Pro and to see students drop the class because of the tools you require them to use.
BTW, when you find that cross platform IDE? Let me know about it. I've been looking for a while now.
WSJ seems to be a pay only site. At least every link to them I have tried is pay only. Is there anyway to read these articles without plunking down for a subscription? If not, why is slashdot wasting my time posting links to that I can not read?
Yes, I have read Snowcrash, to the best of my knowledge I have read everything that Stephenson has written and that applies to Gibson too. I have also used video conferencing systems and I have also worked with VR systems.
There is a dramatic difference between what is portrayed in those very compelling works of *fiction* and what can be implemented with current technology and even projected technology. But, more importantly, do you really want to use a 3D interface when a 2D interface will do? Do you really want to wear a VR head set that cuts you off from hearing and seeing the world around you so that you can interact with a VR web browser? The fact is that most people do not want to be completely cut off from the real world while they interact in a VR world.
On the other hand there is something called enhanced reality. I am expecting some amazing applications in the enhanced reality field. But, I have little hope for true VR until such time as we have direct connections to the brain.
To use Dyson's terms, I drank the kool-aid a long time ago. I drank a lot of it. I sank to the bottom of a tub of the stull and drank it dry. Then I woke up with a terrible hang over and said, "WOW! what *was* I thinking...".:-) I learned a lot about human beings in the process.
Oh well, to try to keep this going a bit, tell me why you think a VR interface to gopherspace would be better than a 2D browser? Note, I said VR, not 3D. Being 3D does not make it VR. But, what the heck, I'll accept reasons why a 3D interface would be be better than a 2D interface.
I remember VRML. It was very much ahead of its time. It needed high bandwidth, lots of RAM, real 3D acceleration, and a purpose. It would work great on todays Internet with todays PCs. But, what is its purpose?
The main purpose for the 3D web is advertising, passive entertainment, and interactive entertainment. The idea of a 3D google interface is a bit silly, the 2D document like interface works too well to be replaced by a 3D interface. A simple 3Dish interface is coming (already here?) to the desktop in the form of translucent windows. It is nice to be able to see what is behind the top page, do we need more?
OTOH, 3D advertising might be very effective. 3D passive entertainment (3D TV) might be a lot of fun. (I really like the idea of being able to pick my viewing position for a soccer game or the Olympics, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.) And, of course, interactive entertainment in the form of MMOGs are already here. Being able to browse to them is a very nice way of selling subscriptions.
What technology do we need that we don't have? Not much really. A while back a guy on the gameprogrammer.com mailing list was talking about how he converted crystal space into a mozilla plugin. With that he can built a game and just browse to it on the net. The idea is to just distribute the plugin over the net and off you go. You could modify any of the GPLed Id engines for the same purpose.
IMHO, the guys at the summit could have implemented a large part of the technology needed to provide a browsable 3D net in the time they spent on the conference by using a little creativity and open source software.
We can have a 3D net in a few weeks or months if we want it, but I don't think anyone really wants it.
I am glad to see programmers actually standing up on their hind feet and suing. We have been treated like crap for too long and yet we do nothing about it. Maybe someday we will get up the nerve to strike. Or, even better, form our own companies and refuse to work for abusers like EA.
Of course, it helps that they were working in California, a state where workers have rights. A lot of studios seem to be moving to Austin and other Texas towns. They are moving here for the same reason Nike has its sweat shops in 3rd world countries. No meaningful labor laws.
Now that EA has been forced to compensate programmers for overtime how long do you think it will take them to move all their programming work to states and countries where they can leagally expoloit programmers?
No, I am not a troll. Take a few minutes to look at my karma on slashdot and you will see that I actually have very good karma. You will also see that I don't post very often.
I was sad to see you label me as a troll. Once you have done that it is very hard for you to ever take anything I say seriously. That is a sad fact about the human psyche, we are able to label things and then treat them according to our stereotypes of the label rather than deal with the the actuality of what we are faced with. In this case you have used an ad hominem attack to rationalize my statements into a straw man and then dismissed the straw man. So, I don't expect you will now be able to take anything I say seriously. But, this whole thread bothers me so much that I have decided to try to explain my position to you.
You tell me you need programmers. I believe you. No question, I believe that you need programmers. I believe that you need programmers with very specific skills and you need exceptional programmers with those skills. I repeat, believe you.
You use your current need to justify telling people to study computer science. I have a lot of trouble with that. Why? Why don't I consider your needs to be a valid reason to study computer science?
Consider that your need is immediate. You need those people today. You may well continue to need them for the next 5 years or even longer. How long does it take for someone starting today to become the person you need? My guess is that it takes about 6 years. The person you need has to get a bachelors degree with the right background so that he can get into a MS or Ph.D program that will get him the rest of the training you need. If they go into an MS program they can get the training and some minimal amount of experience in 2 years. So, we are looking at needing 6 years to get the training they need to fill the jobs you have today. An exceptional person may be able to do it in just 5 years. Someone how is currently a sophomore or junior in a computer science college may be able to shift gears and get to you in 3 or 4 years.
Are you sure the people who jump in to try to get the jobs you have now will still be able to get jobs by the time they are ready? Or, will you needs have changed?
How many people do you need? My guess, and it is only a guess, is that right now you need fewer than 10 people. What happens if you get 100 people to start training for those jobs? You get to pick and chose the best of the group and the rest have to find some other way to make a living?
You tell me about the people you know who have done very well with Ph.Ds in computer science. I know people like that too. I've been in this business since the '70s and I can assure you that I know a number of exceptional people who have been highly recruited and made lots of money. Hey, I've been there myself several times. It really goes to your head. When IBM and DEC and SGI were calling on the phone trying to get me to come to work for them it was great for the ego. When a venture capital due diligence report described me as "just possibly the best programmer in the state of Utah" it really went to my head and lead to my making a lot of money. When... well what the hell, you have labeled me as a troll so you aren't going to believe most of the rest of that anyway.
On the other hand most of the people I graduated with worked as programmers for 10 years or less and then were forced to change careers. There are an awful lot of insurance salesmen and Realtors who have degrees in computer science and engineering. (My favorite insurance salesman of all time was on the mission control team at NASA during the first moon landing. ) The thing is, that for every one I know who did very well there are dozens who did not. I know many people with Ph.Ds in CS who feel lucky to have a job teaching C++ at a community college. When the local CC was recruiting CS instructors (they only have two year programs, not even a bachelors degree) they had their choice of CS Ph.Ds to
Maybe you should come off of your high horse....Hmmm?
I suppose you have no idea of the astonishing arrogance of both your original posting and your reply to my posting. Take a step back and think about it.
The original article was about a program designed to get more people to study computer science. You posted a rah-rah response mentioning ridiculously high salaries. You got called on it and then you changed your tune to point out that those salaries are only available to the "best and brightest" in a specific specialization within computer science.
It has always been the case that the best and the brightest in fields that are currently hot have made ridiculously high salaries. I can remember way back in the '80s when petroleum engineers with a few years experience were getting paid 100s of thousands of dollars per year. But, a few years later they were a dime a dozen on the street.
The people that they are trying to get to go into computer science have as much chance of getting into a Ph.D program as the average sand lot baseball player has of getting into the majors. And only a tiny percentage of those people have a chance at the opportunities you describe. Most Ph.D grads in CS seem to feel pretty lucky to get a job paying $50K to teach at a community college. Most CS students get jobs as programmers. The average programmer in the US is lucky if they can stay in the field for 10 years. Look it up, IEEE has good statistics on the plight of CS majors in the US.
Try to understand that I am talking about the majority of CS majors in the US.
BTW, I knew Henderson when he was a brand new professor at the UofU and I was a grad student desperately trying to finish a thesis. That was more than 20 years ago. I was there when E. I. Organic was still a vital force in the department and not the name of a lecture series. I have been around long enough to know what it is like to be a CS major in the US.
Just scanned your blog and your profile on technorati and you do not seem to be a computer scientist. You don't even seems to be very interested in the subject. Where do you get your facts if not from your own experience? I *am* a computer scientist. I graduated from the UofU where you are in the medical school. And I have not seen anything like what you describe.
That is do say, I am calling bullshit on you and your entire post.
I found this on the net, it says it better than I could:
"A software engineer is a licensed professional engineer who is schooled and skilled in the application of engineering discipline to the creation of software. A software engineer is often confused with a programmer, but the two are vastly different disciplines.
While a programmer creates the codes that make a program run, a software engineer creates the designs the programmer implements. By law no person may use the title "engineer" (of any type) unless the person holds a professional engineering license from a state licensing board and are in good standing. A software engineer is also held accountable to a specific code of ethics."
So... unless you have that little stamp that lets you certify a desgin you are not a software engineer and you may be breaking the law if you call yourself one.
I happen to be married to a state certified PE in mechanical engineering. She has the little stamp that lets her take legal liability for a mechnical design. The level of certification (EIT) required to allow her to graduate would send most so called software engineers running screaming into the night. After that she had to work for many years, collect a pile of references from PEs to be allowed to take the test, spend nights studying for a couple of years and then pass an 8 hour exam to get her PE.
I'm an older geek. I learned emacs in 1981, learned FORTRAN in 1972. I have lived something like the typical geek lifestyle most of my life. I got fat. I got sick. My Dr. told me had to exercise... I hate gyms... Jocks bore me... I took ROTC in high school so I wouldn't have to deal with another coach. What was someone like me going to do for exercise?
I bought a stationary bike. I wore it out. I bought another one and wore it out at about the same time my Dr. told me to never ride a bike again because the damn seats pinch nerves and make you lose feeling in parts of your body you don't ever want numb... I next wore out a Nordic track machine. And then I wore out several pairs of walking shoes: all of those activities were boring as hell. It was like taking bad tasting medicine. I know it was good for me, but it was hard to make myself do it because it was so boring. At least I could listen to music and even read on the bikes.
I kept getting older and I kept fluctuating between being fat and not so fat as I overcame the boredom and exercised. I mean seriously, how many times can you walk down the same trail before it becomes so boring that it actually hurts to think about it?
Finally a friend talked me into taking a class at his Kung Fu school. The first words out of the instructors mouth were "Remember, there is no shame here." And there isn't. There are a variety of activities in each class. It is the hardest work out I ever imagined doing. The combined mental and physical challenge of learning forms is as much fun as solving a hard programming problem or learning a new system. Not to mention that I soon found that the majority of the students are geeks of some sort. Even the master of the school has a Ph.D in neuroscience. Then I started getting in to the internal side of Kung Fu, meditation and Chi Kung, and found more there than I believed was possible.
I started studying a martial art at age 50. My doctor said I was nuts but that it probably wouldn't kill me. Now he says he is amazed at the physical and mental changes he sees in me. I really believe that if you find a serious martial arts school, *not* one run by a bully show off or that is focused just on winning tournaments, you will find an activity that appeals to geeks the same way science and math appeal and for the same reasons. Even within the same style there are good schools and there are bad schools. The master makes the difference.
I never believed I would look forward to spending 2 or more hours at a time sweating so hard that puddles form around my feet when I take a break, but I do.
Stonewolf
P.S.
I am not claiming I am any good at Kung Fu. I am just saying that I love it and I am getting amazing benefits from it. Unlike some styles Kung Fu is appropriate for people of all ages.
The fellow who wrote the original blog entry has a serious lack of contact with reality. Let me try to inject some:
I am speaking as someone with over 30 years experience on top of a MSCS degree who has worked in many industries including the game industry as a programmer and technical director.
Someone with a degree in computer science or a closely related discipline has about a 50% chance of ever being able to write production level code in a commercial environment. My experience is that math majors have nearly as good a chance to become production programmers. English major (especially poets) and archeologists have about a 30% chance of reaching the same level of skill.
(People with degrees from expensive private schools usually figure out that they are never going to earn enough as a programmer to pay for their kids to go to the same expensive private schools and bail into higher paying areas after only a few years. They rarely stay around long enough to become really good programmers. There are, of course, many exceptions to that observation.)
OTOH, someone with a degree in any technical field has less than a 1% chance of becoming a successful entrepreneur. And only about a 10% chance of becoming a successful manager in any environment. A producer is an entrepreneur and a manager. The skills needed to be a producer are very different from the skills needed to be a programmer.
So, if I hire a fresh computer grad to be a programmer there is an even chance that that person will produce revenue for my company. If I hire the same person to be an associate producer there is very little chance that they will ever be good for anything but fetching lattes to meetings.
No wonder the pay for entry level producer is so low. In fact, I was surprised it was so high.
Thank you for the words of encouragment, I really appreciate it.
I thought a lot about going back to academia for a Ph.D in computer science. I also thought a lot about going back for a law degree. I have become very interested (and fairly knowlegable) about IP and civil rights law. I know one fellow in my predicament who is in law school right now.
Here are the problems I ran into. I live in the Austin, Texas area. The only law school and the only Ph.D computer science program are at the University of Texas. An excellent school, or so they tell me. It is very expensive and very difficult to get into. In other words I can't get in there and I can't afford to go there even if I could.
I don't want to move to another location. My wife has a real career here, she makes good money and is well respected. My kids are in college here and what little I make helps to pay their tuition and the mortgage. Speaking of mortgages, I have only a couple of years left on the mortgage and then we will own the house free an clear.
To go back to school I have to abandon my family and home and spend a lot of money that I don't have in the hope of getting a job far from my family and home.
OTOH, I am doing exactly what you suggest. I am back in school the cheapest way I can find. I am paying for it with what I make teaching at the local CC. And I hope to find a job teaching in a local high school.
Do you have any suggestions on how to get a Ph.D or a law degree that doesn't require me to leave my family? I have looked at online schools. But, I haven't ever seen any reason to believe that a local college would take a degree from one of those seriously enough to hire me as an instructor based on such a degree.
Oh, there are a lot of reasons they don't want to hire older people. One of the big ones is the cost of health insurance. I like to work for small companies. I worked for a while at one that tried very hard to hire older people because we don't need to be trained, we show up for work when the company needs us to be there, we understand business, we get the job done, we don't show up hung over on Monday (or any other day) and we don't sneak out on Friday. Lots of very good reasons to hire older workers.
But, the next year their health insurance costs tripled. Older workers take more prescription drugs, we see the doctor more frequently, and we have families who are also covered on the companies health insurance. All things that young people don't have. The added health insurance costs nearly sunk the company. Forced them to go out for another roundof venture capital nearly a year earlier than planned. And, it kept them from being able to hire to meet customer demand. It killed their growth for the year.
Needless to say, they stoppe hiring older workers and all of us were gone within 6 months of the insurance rate hike.
I spent the time and money to get a MSCS. After going through 2 other majors I found I simply love computer science. I love learning. I love solving problems. And, I really get a charge out of seeing products I worked on selling in stores or being used in offices.
Troule is, the older I got, the more grey there was in my beard, the harder it got to find jobs. No matter what kind of training you have, in the US there is a serious bias against old people. Many people, (most people?) assume that if you are over 40 you can't possibly know anything about technology.
So, after getting the graduate degree, spending thousands of dollars every years for books and training, and shipping I don't know how many commercial products, not to mention writing and publishing many articles; I can't *buy* a job in technology. I was laid off on my 49 birthday in 2001 and I have not been able to find anything since then.
Once in a while I get an interview... It ends as soon as they see that I am "old"...
So, I am training to be a high school teacher. I teach part time at the local CC, but I can't get on there full time. There are so many people like me out there that I am actually under qualified to teach at a community college. In my neighborhood there are a half a dozen of us. We live on savings, part time jobs, and our wives incomes. It seems you can't get away with treating old women the way you can get away with treating old men.
So, if you want to go into science and technology, please do. The world needs you. But, plan on "retiring" by age 50 because no company needs you after that age.
Stonewolf
P.S.
Forced retirement isn't all bad. At age 50 I took up a martial art and meditation. The result is that I can now kick ass on most (not all!) of my young students, but I don't want to.:-)
Geez... how to start a "when I was his age" story without starting it with "When I was your age"?
I turned 25 in 1977. I was as hardcore a computer gamer as it was posible to be in that long ago era. I also went through a huge personal crisis. I was married, I had graduated from college. I had a job with a real company doing real work. I was looking at buying a house. I was starting to have serious problems finding time for gaming. But, the thing that really bothered me was that I was still alive. Like so many others of my generation I grew up in fear of the bomb as a young child and spent the time from early junior high until when I was in college in fear of dying in a rice paddy in Viet Nam. (If you don't know what 1A was you probably won't understand what I just said.)
I awakened one day and realized that I was not only still alive, but I was probably going to live a long time. It was a serious shock and sent me into a tail spin that worried my wife like nothing I had ever done before. And this is a woman who put up with my spending all night playing D&D every weekend!
It was of course, totally unrealistic, the result of having internalized ideas that were as false as false can be. But, it was still a real crisis for me. It took a lot of work to get used to the idea that I had a future and that maybe I should plan for it.
My veiw of the world was completey skewed, as completely skewed as that of someone who is currently 26 believing that he is 2old2play. But, at age 25 it was real to me. You can't see things with from the prespective of experience it you do not have any experience. If you are 25 year old combat vetran, or have already had children, or have already lived through the deaths of your parents or other loved ones, or servived a life threatening ordeal you might be 25 and have enough experience to have some real perspective on life, but someone who thinks that 25 is 2old2play isn't likely to fall into that category. All I can say is that his reality is real to him and will be real until he gets over it.
Although... I have to say that mourning your lost youth while you are still a youth is one of the more unique mental problems I have run across:-)
Stonewolf, 53 and still young.
P.S.
I did have to reduce the amount of time I spent gaming, but I never gave up playing.
I wish I new what the name is. My guess is that you and the other guys both thought of the same name at two different times. They were probably trying to come up with names that were either "cool" or names that are likely to be typed into a browser. In either case they registered the name and loaded it up with adds so that if someone does type in that name they go to that site and look at the adds.
Running web sites with cool names to get advertising revenue is a real business and is a valid use of a domain name. In other words, they have just as much of a right and are just as legitimate as you are. So, why call them cybersquaters? I could just as well, and just as validly, call you a cyberclaimjumper. As far as I can tell you are just trying to rob somebody of a source of income. The only way you could convince me otherwise is to prove that they knew about the name of your company and went and registered it.
My advice is to change the name of your company. Spend some time researching names that are 1) not trademarked, and 2) available as domain names. Then, register the domain name. When you meet the requirements for registering the trademark, then register the trademark.
Stonewolf
Always mount a scratch monkey....
on
10 Computer Mishaps
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I originally heard this story from Art during a lull in a seminar on programming implementation when he was a visiting professor at the UofU. It is the best story I ever heard for proving than no good deed goes unpunished. It is also, the funniest computer story I have ever heard.
Stonewolf
Read on....
Subject: Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Date: Wednesday, 3 September 1986 16:46-EDT From: "Art Evans" To: Risks@CSL.SRI.COM
In another forum that I follow, one corespondent always adds the comment
Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
after his signature. In response to a request for explanation, he replied somewhat as follows. Since I'm reproducing without permission, I have disguised a few things.
My friend Bud used to be the intercept man at a computer vendor for calls when an irate customer called. Seems one day Bud was sitting at his desk when the phone rang.
Bud: Hello. Voice: YOU KILLED MABEL!!
B: Excuse me? V: YOU KILLED MABEL!!
This went on for a couple of minutes and Bud was getting nowhere, so he decided to alter his approach to the customer.
B: HOW DID I KILL MABEL? V: YOU PM'ED MY MACHINE!!
Well to avoid making a long story even longer, I will abbreviate what had happened. The customer was a Biologist at the University of Blah-de-blah, and he had one of our computers that controlled gas mixtures that Mabel (the monkey) breathed. Now Mabel was not your ordinary monkey. The University had spent years teaching Mabel to swim, and they were studying the effects that different gas mixtures had on her physiology. It turns out that the repair folks had just gotten a new Calibrated Power Supply (used to calibrate analog equipment), and at their first opportunity decided to calibrate the D/A converters in that computer. This changed some of the gas mixtures and poor Mabel was asphyxiated. Well Bud then called the branch manager for the repair folks:
Manager: Hello
B: This is Bud, I heard you did a PM at the University of
Blah-de-blah.
M: Yes, we really performed a complete PM. What can I do
for You?
B: Can You Swim?
The moral is, of course, that you should always mount a scratch monkey.
There are several morals here related to risks in use of computers. Examples include, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." However, the cautious philosophical approach implied by "always mount a scratch monkey" says a lot that we should keep in mind.
No health insurance: Ain't it grand to live in the Capitalist Paradise.
I have health insurance through my wife's job. Without it, I may well be dead, or bankrupt. I had an appendectomy just about the time my Corba would have expired. Not to mention the cost of medicines and supplies needed to treat the type 2 diabetes I developed after infection I got from the surgery. BTW, I know how very very lucky I am. I have health insurance.
I have a friend, a young man in his mid-twenties. He to is a college graduate and had a nice job. The company down sized and he is out of work his and CORBA benefits rapidly running out. He has type 1 diabetes, when his CORBA runs out, he will be in a deep deep hole. His only hope is to be so broke that he can get some kind of public assistance. I know he will take any job that offers health insurance, but he hasn't found anything.
I like small companies. I have worked for 5 start ups. (I like the excitement...) I worked for a very small start up about 7 years ago. After they hired several over 40 folks their health insurance premium tripled. They didn't hire any more highly experience people. The cost of health insurance made it cheaper to train people than to hire experienced people.
Much of what is wrong with employment in the US right now could be solved by creating a reasonable health insurance system. But, hey! The powers that be would prefer we just die.
In many ways I think people like you, the ones who graduated during the bottom and could not find jobs, are being hurt the worst. I've lived through 3 of these crashes so far and the folks who graduated during the bottom often never did get jobs in their chosen field. They didn't get jobs because by the time the jobs came back, they were seen as having out of date skills.
The best suggestion I can make to you is to survive anyway you can and when jobs start to become available jump back into school and get a graduate degree. By the time you finish it you should be able to find a job. OTOH, look at other fields where your technical background will help you and go to graduate school in one of those fields. Right now, it looks like IP law is a good field and Finance might be a good field. Of course, you have to find what interests you and go for it.
The only other thing I can suggest is that you start putting as much money away as you can, and then put away more. The kind of economic change we are seeing now happen every decade or so and you have to be prepared to live a long time with no income. And, you have to be prepared to pay to learn new skills.
Slashdot Mirror
Not really, I'll be 54 in a few weeks, I just used that line as a headline because it ryhmes with "when I'm 64".
I have played computer games since the early 70s. I was old enough to go to bars when Pong showed up in them. I love to play games. I also love to write them. I was part owner of a small game studio in the early '90s and I teach game programming. I'll bet I have spent more time writing games and reading the source code for games than I have spent actually playing games.
I really hate most modern games. Oh, I can sit and play tuxracer for hours. And simcity has been known to keep me up all night. But, most modern games just aren't any fun for me. RTSs are fun, and addictive, But they take so long to play and so long to learn. I have yet to see an FPS that was anything but wander around and kill stuff. I like wandering around, but there are trails and malls and cities for wandering around in. And, I don't like being shot at or having to shoot at everything that moves. I've been shot at and I've shot living things (I used to do a lot of hunting and stopped for moral reasons) and it isn't to be taken lightly. I played D&D from the orignal folded paper pamphlets and loved the game. Modern RPGs are too complex, take to long, and get boring really fast. MMOGs... well, I have to much to do to be able to participate in a clan. Wondering around on your own just gets you killed. Seriously, I got over wanting to be a Captian Kirk, Luke Skywalker, or a 10 level troll warrior (best character I ever had) a long, long, time ago. I want to be me, not pretend to be some famous fake character.
I'm a martial artist and at 54 I can move faster than many of the younger people I train with. Maybe that is why I don't spend a lot of time playing games. When I have a couple of hours to kill I can spend that time training or meditating and improve my real mind, body, and spirit rather than adding phoney points to made up stats. OTOH I have run into console games that were impossible for me to play because I do not have the thumb dexterity of people who have been playing consoles since childhood.
I still go into game stores once in a while and look around. I read reviews of games. I keep hoping to find games that I want to play, but it looks like game companies either to not care about my demographic, or it they do, they do not understand us well enough to write games.
Stonewolf
I understand that you support RedHat, please understand that I do not.
The total damages that I suffered because of RedHat's actions are far beyond the limits for small claims court. Just the lost time puts the damages into the $10,000 dollar range. You clearly didn't believe me when I told you that I have talked to a lawyer about suing them.
Three other small business owners chimed in to tell us that they too were injured by RedHat. That proves that people who make these decision read slashdot. The majority of businesses in the US are small businesses.
So, you have heard of the concept of freedom of speach, but you do not support it. That explains everything you have posted... People like you make me want to puke. At least Coulter and Moore care enough to try to change things. You don't even support the basic rights that make it possible to have the kind of dialog represented by Coulter and Moore. Instead, you are right there trying to force us all to say only what you approve of. Disgusting.
Stonewolf
You believe what you believe, I understand that and accept it. I believe what I believe. My beliefs lead me to think that you are misguided and that your continued support of RH is hurting you and the whole community. I used to be an RH fan, I ws wrong and I paid for it. I hope you will think about what RH did to thousands of customers and think about why you continue to support them.
The reason I haven't sued them is that it would cost me more to sue them than I can hope to recover from them. I spent the time and money talking to a lawyer about suing them. As a result suing them would hurt me more than it hurts RH. I am sure they knew that when they decide to steal from their customers. I hoped that some greedy lawyer would put together a class action suit against them but that doesn't look like it will happen.
OTOH, posting messages reminding people that RH stole from their customers is a cost effective way to hurt RH.
I am curious why you care so much about getting me to shut my "fucking trap"? But, I am even more curious about what kind of person you are to think you have the right to tell me, or anyone, to shut up about anything. The right to free speach is one of those things I am willing to fight and die for. It would seem that you are not familiar with the concept.
Wow! I do not understand your point of view at all. RedHat robbed me. Denied doing it. And then refused to even talk to me about it. And you think I should just... what? Forget about it? You tell me I have "emotional bagagge". Oh my?!
People who willingly allow themselves to be vitimized and take no action to defend themselves are in serious need of help. You might try finding it, or just accept that you will live the rest of your life as a door mat.
I, on the other hand, will do what ever I can to get back what was stolen from me, If that isn't possible I will do what I can to keep other people from being ripped off the same way I was.
As for the complaint that this discussion is about Fedora, not RedHat... What can I say, Fedora is nothing but a way for a RedHat to rip off the entire community for free testing, integration, and development. You can not support Fedora without supporting RedHat.
Stonewolf
I will admit that I have a chip on my shoulder. I was a happy user of Redhat. I loved it. It was reasonably priced, it gave me a reliable way to maintain my OS and it just worked. I chose RedHat after testing several other commercial versions of Linux. I had a whole shelf full of boxed Linux distros before I finally settled on RedHat. I was a real fan and a strong supporter. I bought your boxed products and paid a subscription fee for support. I was the kind of customer I would love to have.
Shortly after I had paid the one year subscription fee for your support network your company sent me an email that basically said, we don't want your business, and oh bye the way, we are keeping your money and cutting off the service you just paid for. Your idea of compensation was to offer me a discount on the same product at a much higher price. In other words, you robbed me and then tried to extort even more money from me. You are nothing but thieves. Even Microsoft has never actually taken my money and given me nothing in return.
After that experience I was forced to waste time seeking a new distribution and converting all my computers. The time cost to do that was much greater than the dollar value of the service fees you stole from me. If you count my lost time and revenue I am out several thousand dollars because of you. So, you might say I am a little bit biased against your company. I wouldn't actually spit on you if I were to meet you face to face, but I would like to.
OTOH, I found Debian and found that I had been paying RedHat for something I can get for free from Debian. Recently I converted my desktops and laptops to Ubuntu, an even better solution than Debian, and again for free.
So, considering that there are better versions of Linux available from honest organizations, organizations who have never robbed their customers, I have to ask WHY DO YOU MATTER. Aside from suckering stupid big companies into over paying for your software, what service do you provide that is even worth the time to read about?
Stonewolf
Just remember that Yahoo and AT&T are already deeply in bed with each other. They have been partners since long before SBC bought AT&T and assumed that name. If you will recall, SBC bought and destroyed on "portal" company. After that debacle they decided it was best to partner with someone and they picked Yahoo. Remember that they call their DSL service AT&T Yahoo! internet.
Rember that SBC has been trying to destroy the Internet since the Internet destroyed their plans for a monopoly information service.
Stonewolf
I teach C++ and a class called "Game programming and graphics" at my local community college. I've been doing software development for more than 30 years and have used every type of development environment there is. I have read debug info using a magnifier to inspect the color of individual pixels that were set by firmware as it booted up. Programmers will learn the tools required by the job at hand or they will be replaced. OTOH, when learning to program you want to reduce the distractions as much as possible. You want the students to spend their time programming, not worrying about the details of their development environment. For that reason I prefer to have students use an IDE. Hey, I use emacs and that is a pretty powerful IDE all by itself.
In my classes I have taken a very liberal approach to this question. I let the students decide for themselves whether to use an IDE or not and which IDE to use. I want them to use tools they are comfortable with so they spend their time programming. As a result of my policy I have had people in my classes using DeV-C++, the free versions of Visual C++ as well as the expensive versions all the way up to the pro version with an MSDN subscription, Emacs and make, and one fellow who used a nice looking IDE on the Mac. (So far about 85% of students are on Windows, 14% on Linux, and 1% on the Mac.)
The problem I run into is that every student expects me to help them with problems they run into with the IDE they have chosen to use. I get no end of complaints because I refuse to help students with problems with their IDEs. No teacher can be familiar with all the IDEs that are out there. It is a pain to try to keep up with just one or two. How are you going to help them with problems with Visual Studio Pro if you don't own a copy? How are you going to help with Emacs if you don't know it?
My suggestion to you is to pick a single cross platform development environment that you are used to and knowledgeable about and require that the students use that platform. It has to be cross platform because you are at a CC. The reality of community colleges is that a lot of your students are lucky to have a computer at all and they may not be able to get a different kind of computer or even a different version of an OS just for your class.
I'll make a couple of other suggestions, be prepared for nasty calls from parents who have already laid out $1500 dollars for VC++ Pro and to see students drop the class because of the tools you require them to use.
BTW, when you find that cross platform IDE? Let me know about it. I've been looking for a while now.
Stonewolf
WSJ seems to be a pay only site. At least every link to them I have tried is pay only. Is there anyway to read these articles without plunking down for a subscription? If not, why is slashdot wasting my time posting links to that I can not read?
Stonewolf
Yes, I have read Snowcrash, to the best of my knowledge I have read everything that Stephenson has written and that applies to Gibson too. I have also used video conferencing systems and I have also worked with VR systems.
:-) I learned a lot about human beings in the process.
There is a dramatic difference between what is portrayed in those very compelling works of *fiction* and what can be implemented with current technology and even projected technology. But, more importantly, do you really want to use a 3D interface when a 2D interface will do? Do you really want to wear a VR head set that cuts you off from hearing and seeing the world around you so that you can interact with a VR web browser? The fact is that most people do not want to be completely cut off from the real world while they interact in a VR world.
On the other hand there is something called enhanced reality. I am expecting some amazing applications in the enhanced reality field. But, I have little hope for true VR until such time as we have direct connections to the brain.
To use Dyson's terms, I drank the kool-aid a long time ago. I drank a lot of it. I sank to the bottom of a tub of the stull and drank it dry. Then I woke up with a terrible hang over and said, "WOW! what *was* I thinking...".
Oh well, to try to keep this going a bit, tell me why you think a VR interface to gopherspace would be better than a 2D browser? Note, I said VR, not 3D. Being 3D does not make it VR. But, what the heck, I'll accept reasons why a 3D interface would be be better than a 2D interface.
Stonewolf
I remember VRML. It was very much ahead of its time. It needed high bandwidth, lots of RAM, real 3D acceleration, and a purpose. It would work great on todays Internet with todays PCs. But, what is its purpose?
The main purpose for the 3D web is advertising, passive entertainment, and interactive entertainment. The idea of a 3D google interface is a bit silly, the 2D document like interface works too well to be replaced by a 3D interface. A simple 3Dish interface is coming (already here?) to the desktop in the form of translucent windows. It is nice to be able to see what is behind the top page, do we need more?
OTOH, 3D advertising might be very effective. 3D passive entertainment (3D TV) might be a lot of fun. (I really like the idea of being able to pick my viewing position for a soccer game or the Olympics, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.) And, of course, interactive entertainment in the form of MMOGs are already here. Being able to browse to them is a very nice way of selling subscriptions.
What technology do we need that we don't have? Not much really. A while back a guy on the gameprogrammer.com mailing list was talking about how he converted crystal space into a mozilla plugin. With that he can built a game and just browse to it on the net. The idea is to just distribute the plugin over the net and off you go. You could modify any of the GPLed Id engines for the same purpose.
IMHO, the guys at the summit could have implemented a large part of the technology needed to provide a browsable 3D net in the time they spent on the conference by using a little creativity and open source software.
We can have a 3D net in a few weeks or months if we want it, but I don't think anyone really wants it.
Stonewolf
I am glad to see programmers actually standing up on their hind feet and suing. We have been treated like crap for too long and yet we do nothing about it. Maybe someday we will get up the nerve to strike. Or, even better, form our own companies and refuse to work for abusers like EA.
Of course, it helps that they were working in California, a state where workers have rights. A lot of studios seem to be moving to Austin and other Texas towns. They are moving here for the same reason Nike has its sweat shops in 3rd world countries. No meaningful labor laws.
Now that EA has been forced to compensate programmers for overtime how long do you think it will take them to move all their programming work to states and countries where they can leagally expoloit programmers?
Stonewolf
No, I am not a troll. Take a few minutes to look at my karma on slashdot and you will see that I actually have very good karma. You will also see that I don't post very often.
... well what the hell, you have labeled me as a troll so you aren't going to believe most of the rest of that anyway.
I was sad to see you label me as a troll. Once you have done that it is very hard for you to ever take anything I say seriously. That is a sad fact about the human psyche, we are able to label things and then treat them according to our stereotypes of the label rather than deal with the the actuality of what we are faced with. In this case you have used an ad hominem attack to rationalize my statements into a straw man and then dismissed the straw man. So, I don't expect you will now be able to take anything I say seriously. But, this whole thread bothers me so much that I have decided to try to explain my position to you.
You tell me you need programmers. I believe you. No question, I believe that you need programmers. I believe that you need programmers with very specific skills and you need exceptional programmers with those skills. I repeat, believe you.
You use your current need to justify telling people to study computer science. I have a lot of trouble with that. Why? Why don't I consider your needs to be a valid reason to study computer science?
Consider that your need is immediate. You need those people today. You may well continue to need them for the next 5 years or even longer. How long does it take for someone starting today to become the person you need? My guess is that it takes about 6 years. The person you need has to get a bachelors degree with the right background so that he can get into a MS or Ph.D program that will get him the rest of the training you need. If they go into an MS program they can get the training and some minimal amount of experience in 2 years. So, we are looking at needing 6 years to get the training they need to fill the jobs you have today. An exceptional person may be able to do it in just 5 years. Someone how is currently a sophomore or junior in a computer science college may be able to shift gears and get to you in 3 or 4 years.
Are you sure the people who jump in to try to get the jobs you have now will still be able to get jobs by the time they are ready? Or, will you needs have changed?
How many people do you need? My guess, and it is only a guess, is that right now you need fewer than 10 people. What happens if you get 100 people to start training for those jobs? You get to pick and chose the best of the group and the rest have to find some other way to make a living?
You tell me about the people you know who have done very well with Ph.Ds in computer science. I know people like that too. I've been in this business since the '70s and I can assure you that I know a number of exceptional people who have been highly recruited and made lots of money. Hey, I've been there myself several times. It really goes to your head. When IBM and DEC and SGI were calling on the phone trying to get me to come to work for them it was great for the ego. When a venture capital due diligence report described me as "just possibly the best programmer in the state of Utah" it really went to my head and lead to my making a lot of money. When
On the other hand most of the people I graduated with worked as programmers for 10 years or less and then were forced to change careers. There are an awful lot of insurance salesmen and Realtors who have degrees in computer science and engineering. (My favorite insurance salesman of all time was on the mission control team at NASA during the first moon landing. ) The thing is, that for every one I know who did very well there are dozens who did not. I know many people with Ph.Ds in CS who feel lucky to have a job teaching C++ at a community college. When the local CC was recruiting CS instructors (they only have two year programs, not even a bachelors degree) they had their choice of CS Ph.Ds to
Maybe you should come off of your high horse....Hmmm?
I suppose you have no idea of the astonishing arrogance of both your original posting and your reply to my posting. Take a step back and think about it.
The original article was about a program designed to get more people to study computer science. You posted a rah-rah response mentioning ridiculously high salaries. You got called on it and then you changed your tune to point out that those salaries are only available to the "best and brightest" in a specific specialization within computer science.
It has always been the case that the best and the brightest in fields that are currently hot have made ridiculously high salaries. I can remember way back in the '80s when petroleum engineers with a few years experience were getting paid 100s of thousands of dollars per year. But, a few years later they were a dime a dozen on the street.
The people that they are trying to get to go into computer science have as much chance of getting into a Ph.D program as the average sand lot baseball player has of getting into the majors. And only a tiny percentage of those people have a chance at the opportunities you describe. Most Ph.D grads in CS seem to feel pretty lucky to get a job paying $50K to teach at a community college. Most CS students get jobs as programmers. The average programmer in the US is lucky if they can stay in the field for 10 years. Look it up, IEEE has good statistics on the plight of CS majors in the US.
Try to understand that I am talking about the majority of CS majors in the US.
BTW, I knew Henderson when he was a brand new professor at the UofU and I was a grad student desperately trying to finish a thesis. That was more than 20 years ago. I was there when E. I. Organic was still a vital force in the department and not the name of a lecture series. I have been around long enough to know what it is like to be a CS major in the US.
Just scanned your blog and your profile on technorati and you do not seem to be a computer scientist. You don't even seems to be very interested in the subject. Where do you get your facts if not from your own experience? I *am* a computer scientist. I graduated from the UofU where you are in the medical school. And I have not seen anything like what you describe.
That is do say, I am calling bullshit on you and your entire post.
Stonewolf
I found this on the net, it says it better than I could:
_ professionalism
"A software engineer is a licensed professional engineer who is schooled and skilled in the application of engineering discipline to the creation of software. A software engineer is often confused with a programmer, but the two are vastly different disciplines.
While a programmer creates the codes that make a program run, a software engineer creates the designs the programmer implements. By law no person may use the title "engineer" (of any type) unless the person holds a professional engineering license from a state licensing board and are in good standing. A software engineer is also held accountable to a specific code of ethics."
So... unless you have that little stamp that lets you certify a desgin you are not a software engineer and you may be breaking the law if you call yourself one.
You should take a look here for more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering
I happen to be married to a state certified PE in mechanical engineering. She has the little stamp that lets her take legal liability for a mechnical design. The level of certification (EIT) required to allow her to graduate would send most so called software engineers running screaming into the night. After that she had to work for many years, collect a pile of references from PEs to be allowed to take the test, spend nights studying for a couple of years and then pass an 8 hour exam to get her PE.
Stonewolf
I'm an older geek. I learned emacs in 1981, learned FORTRAN in 1972.
I have lived something like the typical geek lifestyle most of my life. I got fat. I got sick. My Dr. told me had to exercise... I hate gyms... Jocks bore me... I took ROTC in high school so I wouldn't have to deal with another coach. What was someone like me going to do for exercise?
I bought a stationary bike. I wore it out. I bought another one and wore it out at about the same time my Dr. told me to never ride a bike again because the damn seats pinch nerves and make you lose feeling in parts of your body you don't ever want numb... I next wore out a Nordic track machine. And then I wore out several pairs of walking shoes: all of those activities were boring as hell. It was like taking bad tasting medicine. I know it was good for me, but it was hard to make myself do it because it was so boring. At least I could listen to music and even read on the bikes.
I kept getting older and I kept fluctuating between being fat and not so fat as I overcame the boredom and exercised. I mean seriously, how many times can you walk down the same trail before it becomes so boring that it actually hurts to think about it?
Finally a friend talked me into taking a class at his Kung Fu school. The first words out of the instructors mouth were "Remember, there is no shame here." And there isn't. There are a variety of activities in each class. It is the hardest work out I ever imagined doing. The combined mental and physical challenge of learning forms is as much fun as solving a hard programming problem or learning a new system. Not to mention that I soon found that the majority of the students are geeks of some sort. Even the master of the school has a Ph.D in neuroscience. Then I started getting in to the internal side of Kung Fu, meditation and Chi Kung, and found more there than I believed was possible.
I started studying a martial art at age 50. My doctor said I was nuts but that it probably wouldn't kill me. Now he says he is amazed at the physical and mental changes he sees in me. I really believe that if you find a serious martial arts school, *not* one run by a bully show off or that is focused just on winning tournaments, you will find an activity that appeals to geeks the same way science and math appeal and for the same reasons. Even within the same style there are good schools and there are bad schools. The master makes the difference.
I never believed I would look forward to spending 2 or more hours at a time sweating so hard that puddles form around my feet when I take a break, but I do.
Stonewolf
P.S.
I am not claiming I am any good at Kung Fu. I am just saying that I love it and I am getting amazing benefits from it. Unlike some styles Kung Fu is appropriate for people of all ages.
The fellow who wrote the original blog entry has a serious lack of contact with reality. Let me try to inject some:
I am speaking as someone with over 30 years experience on top of a MSCS degree who has worked in many industries including the game industry as a programmer and technical director.
Someone with a degree in computer science or a closely related discipline has about a 50% chance of ever being able to write production level code in a commercial environment. My experience is that math majors have nearly as good a chance to become production programmers. English major (especially poets) and archeologists have about a 30% chance of reaching the same level of skill.
(People with degrees from expensive private schools usually figure out that they are never going to earn enough as a programmer to pay for their kids to go to the same expensive private schools and bail into higher paying areas after only a few years. They rarely stay around long enough to become really good programmers. There are, of course, many exceptions to that observation.)
OTOH, someone with a degree in any technical field has less than a 1% chance of becoming a successful entrepreneur. And only about a 10% chance of becoming a successful manager in any environment. A producer is an entrepreneur and a manager. The skills needed to be a producer are very different from the skills needed to be a programmer.
So, if I hire a fresh computer grad to be a programmer there is an even chance that that person will produce revenue for my company. If I hire the same person to be an associate producer there is very little chance that they will ever be good for anything but fetching lattes to meetings.
No wonder the pay for entry level producer is so low. In fact, I was surprised it was so high.
Stonewolf
Thank you for the words of encouragment, I really appreciate it.
I thought a lot about going back to academia for a Ph.D in computer science. I also thought a lot about going back for a law degree. I have become very interested (and fairly knowlegable) about IP and civil rights law. I know one fellow in my predicament who is in law school right now.
Here are the problems I ran into. I live in the Austin, Texas area. The only law school and the only Ph.D computer science program are at the University of Texas. An excellent school, or so they tell me. It is very expensive and very difficult to get into. In other words I can't get in there and I can't afford to go there even if I could.
I don't want to move to another location. My wife has a real career here, she makes good money and is well respected. My kids are in college here and what little I make helps to pay their tuition and the mortgage. Speaking of mortgages, I have only a couple of years left on the mortgage and then we will own the house free an clear.
To go back to school I have to abandon my family and home and spend a lot of money that I don't have in the hope of getting a job far from my family and home.
OTOH, I am doing exactly what you suggest. I am back in school the cheapest way I can find. I am paying for it with what I make teaching at the local CC. And I hope to find a job teaching in a local high school.
Do you have any suggestions on how to get a Ph.D or a law degree that doesn't require me to leave my family? I have looked at online schools. But, I haven't ever seen any reason to believe that a local college would take a degree from one of those seriously enough to hire me as an instructor based on such a degree.
Stonewolf
Oh, there are a lot of reasons they don't want to hire older people. One of the big ones is the cost of health insurance. I like to work for small companies. I worked for a while at one that tried very hard to hire older people because we don't need to be trained, we show up for work when the company needs us to be there, we understand business, we get the job done, we don't show up hung over on Monday (or any other day) and we don't sneak out on Friday. Lots of very good reasons to hire older workers.
But, the next year their health insurance costs tripled. Older workers take more prescription drugs, we see the doctor more frequently, and we have families who are also covered on the companies health insurance. All things that young people don't have. The added health insurance costs nearly sunk the company. Forced them to go out for another roundof venture capital nearly a year earlier than planned. And, it kept them from being able to hire to meet customer demand. It killed their growth for the year.
Needless to say, they stoppe hiring older workers and all of us were gone within 6 months of the insurance rate hike.
Stonewolf
I spent the time and money to get a MSCS. After going through 2 other majors I found I simply love computer science. I love learning. I love solving problems. And, I really get a charge out of seeing products I worked on selling in stores or being used in offices.
:-)
Troule is, the older I got, the more grey there was in my beard, the harder it got to find jobs. No matter what kind of training you have, in the US there is a serious bias against old people. Many people, (most people?) assume that if you are over 40 you can't possibly know anything about technology.
So, after getting the graduate degree, spending thousands of dollars every years for books and training, and shipping I don't know how many commercial products, not to mention writing and publishing many articles; I can't *buy* a job in technology. I was laid off on my 49 birthday in 2001 and I have not been able to find anything since then.
Once in a while I get an interview... It ends as soon as they see that I am "old"...
So, I am training to be a high school teacher. I teach part time at the local CC, but I can't get on there full time. There are so many people like me out there that I am actually under qualified to teach at a community college. In my neighborhood there are a half a dozen of us. We live on savings, part time jobs, and our wives incomes. It seems you can't get away with treating old women the way you can get away with treating old men.
So, if you want to go into science and technology, please do. The world needs you. But, plan on "retiring" by age 50 because no company needs you after that age.
Stonewolf
P.S.
Forced retirement isn't all bad. At age 50 I took up a martial art and meditation. The result is that I can now kick ass on most (not all!) of my young students, but I don't want to.
Geez... how to start a "when I was his age" story without starting it with "When I was your age"?
:-)
I turned 25 in 1977. I was as hardcore a computer gamer as it was posible to be in that long ago era. I also went through a huge personal crisis. I was married, I had graduated from college. I had a job with a real company doing real work. I was looking at buying a house. I was starting to have serious problems finding time for gaming. But, the thing that really bothered me was that I was still alive. Like so many others of my generation I grew up in fear of the bomb as a young child and spent the time from early junior high until when I was in college in fear of dying in a rice paddy in Viet Nam. (If you don't know what 1A was you probably won't understand what I just said.)
I awakened one day and realized that I was not only still alive, but I was probably going to live a long time. It was a serious shock and sent me into a tail spin that worried my wife like nothing I had ever done before. And this is a woman who put up with my spending all night playing D&D every weekend!
It was of course, totally unrealistic, the result of having internalized ideas that were as false as false can be. But, it was still a real crisis for me. It took a lot of work to get used to the idea that I had a future and that maybe I should plan for it.
My veiw of the world was completey skewed, as completely skewed as that of someone who is currently 26 believing that he is 2old2play. But, at age 25 it was real to me. You can't see things with from the prespective of experience it you do not have any experience. If you are 25 year old combat vetran, or have already had children, or have already lived through the deaths of your parents or other loved ones, or servived a life threatening ordeal you might be 25 and have enough experience to have some real perspective on life, but someone who thinks that 25 is 2old2play isn't likely to fall into that category. All I can say is that his reality is real to him and will be real until he gets over it.
Although... I have to say that mourning your lost youth while you are still a youth is one of the more unique mental problems I have run across
Stonewolf, 53 and still young.
P.S.
I did have to reduce the amount of time I spent gaming, but I never gave up playing.
I wish I new what the name is. My guess is that you and the other guys both thought of the same name at two different times. They were probably trying to come up with names that were either "cool" or names that are likely to be typed into a browser. In either case they registered the name and loaded it up with adds so that if someone does type in that name they go to that site and look at the adds.
Running web sites with cool names to get advertising revenue is a real business and is a valid use of a domain name. In other words, they have just as much of a right and are just as legitimate as you are. So, why call them cybersquaters? I could just as well, and just as validly, call you a cyberclaimjumper. As far as I can tell you are just trying to rob somebody of a source of income. The only way you could convince me otherwise is to prove that they knew about the name of your company and went and registered it.
My advice is to change the name of your company. Spend some time researching names that are 1) not trademarked, and 2) available as domain names. Then, register the domain name. When you meet the requirements for registering the trademark, then register the trademark.
Stonewolf
I originally heard this story from Art during a lull in a seminar on programming implementation when he was a visiting professor at the UofU. It is the best story I ever heard for proving than no good deed goes unpunished. It is also, the funniest computer story I have ever heard.
Stonewolf
Read on....
Subject: Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Date: Wednesday, 3 September 1986 16:46-EDT
From: "Art Evans"
To: Risks@CSL.SRI.COM
In another forum that I follow, one corespondent always adds the comment
Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
after his signature. In response to a request for explanation, he replied somewhat as follows. Since I'm reproducing without permission,
I have disguised a few things.
My friend Bud used to be the intercept man at a computer vendor for calls when an irate customer called. Seems one day Bud was sitting at his desk when the phone rang.
Bud: Hello. Voice: YOU KILLED MABEL!!
B: Excuse me? V: YOU KILLED MABEL!!
This went on for a couple of minutes and Bud was getting nowhere, so he decided to alter his approach to the customer.
B: HOW DID I KILL MABEL? V: YOU PM'ED MY MACHINE!!
Well to avoid making a long story even longer, I will abbreviate what had happened. The customer was a Biologist at the University of Blah-de-blah, and he had one of our computers that controlled gas mixtures that Mabel (the monkey) breathed. Now Mabel was not your ordinary monkey. The University had spent years teaching Mabel to swim, and they were studying the effects that different gas mixtures had on her physiology. It turns out that the repair folks had just gotten a new Calibrated Power Supply (used to calibrate analog equipment), and at their first opportunity decided to calibrate the D/A converters in that computer. This changed some of the gas mixtures and poor Mabel was asphyxiated. Well Bud then called the branch manager for the repair folks:
Manager: Hello
B: This is Bud, I heard you did a PM at the University of
Blah-de-blah.
M: Yes, we really performed a complete PM. What can I do
for You?
B: Can You Swim?
The moral is, of course, that you should always mount a scratch monkey.
There are several morals here related to risks in use of computers. Examples include, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." However, the cautious philosophical approach implied by "always mount a scratch monkey" says a lot that we should keep in mind.
Art Evans
Tartan Labs
No health insurance: Ain't it grand to live in the Capitalist Paradise.
I have health insurance through my wife's job. Without it, I may well be dead, or bankrupt. I had an appendectomy just about the time my Corba would have expired. Not to mention the cost of medicines and supplies needed to treat the type 2 diabetes I developed after infection I got from the surgery. BTW, I know how very very lucky I am. I have health insurance.
I have a friend, a young man in his mid-twenties. He to is a college graduate and had a nice job. The company down sized and he is out of work his and CORBA benefits rapidly running out. He has type 1 diabetes, when his CORBA runs out, he will be in a deep deep hole. His only hope is to be so broke that he can get some kind of public assistance. I know he will take any job that offers health insurance, but he hasn't found anything.
I like small companies. I have worked for 5 start ups. (I like the excitement...) I worked for a very small start up about 7 years ago. After they hired several over 40 folks their health insurance premium tripled. They didn't hire any more highly experience people. The cost of health insurance made it cheaper to train people than to hire experienced people.
Much of what is wrong with employment in the US right now could be solved by creating a reasonable health insurance system. But, hey! The powers that be would prefer we just die.
Stonewolf
In many ways I think people like you, the ones who graduated during the bottom and could not find jobs, are being hurt the worst. I've lived through 3 of these crashes so far and the folks who graduated during the bottom often never did get jobs in their chosen field. They didn't get jobs because by the time the jobs came back, they were seen as having out of date skills.
The best suggestion I can make to you is to survive anyway you can and when jobs start to become available jump back into school and get a graduate degree. By the time you finish it you should be able to find a job. OTOH, look at other fields where your technical background will help you and go to graduate school in one of those fields. Right now, it looks like IP law is a good field and Finance might be a good field. Of course, you have to find what interests you and go for it.
The only other thing I can suggest is that you start putting as much money away as you can, and then put away more. The kind of economic change we are seeing now happen every decade or so and you have to be prepared to live a long time with no income. And, you have to be prepared to pay to learn new skills.
Stonewolf