"There may be workarounds, but there will also be a fair number of people who will not want to put forth the effort to deal with such workarounds. It is a matter of convenience."
Amen! Just getting the !@#$% wrapper off is sometimes more of an inconvenience than its worth!
I really don't think the RIAA cares about our convenience.
So how does the copier keep track? it can't alter the read only CD. Would it be the device reading the disk (which could be a simple CD player) keeping track or the burner? Either the "reader" has to have a way of knowing what I'm going to do with what's being read, or the "burner" needs a way of knowing where the source came from.
What's to keep someone from simply "wiping" the copier's memory (knowing the RIAA it would be as difficult as turing the machine off then back on)?
Finally, what's to keep me from using multiple copiers?
As the GP said, without a centralized database, how can the number of copies really be counted?
But the big question is, how does the CD know how many times its been copied? How can a read-only CD know if its being "read" for playback vs. "read" for duplication?
And as for the copies, how does it know what generation it is? AFAIK it has no way of telling the copy software to decrement a counter or anything like that.
I'm really just trying to figure out how this whole scheme is supposed to work without relying on a centralized "DRM Server" to keep track of copies.
But then its a simple matter of mutliple reads and/or better hardware. At the very worst you get a decent copy that can then be copied flawlessly thereafter -a lot of work and cost for zero real-world benefit.
Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't know how a CD could know if its being read for playback vs. copying unless its simply designed not to be readable at >1X speeds or it has a way of "phoning home".
Does anybody know how this stuff supposedly works?
And that's what worries me. How do you actually keep track of how many copies have been made when you're talking about a read-only storage medium (the CD)? The only way is if the copying device is keeping track, presumably via software, And then you need some centralized control to keep track of the copying devices....
The public would be screaming if the Office of Homeland Security wanted to keep track of stuff like this, but its OK if its your friendly big brother Business.
Also keep in mind it was a much rarer event for people to stand in line for the hours that people did for Star Wars, much less the fact that people didn't tend to watch the same movie in the theatre over and over and....
I thought this was a feature of Panther, not HFS+.
HFS+ has been around since OS 8.5 (?? somewhere in OS 8). So either this is a feature of HFS+ that hasn't been implemented until now, or its a bit of code added to Panther. Or has HFS+ been updated?
Wih the iPod's drives getting bigger with each generation, I'm wondering how long it will be until the iPod supports the lossless compression scheme Apple unveiled in its lates iTunes update.
On another note, I'm stil trying to figure out what the "Apple Lossless Codec" actually is. Anybody know off hand?
Yeah, I remember waiting for prices to drop to $100 / 1 MB SIMMs before upgrading.
It wasn't all that long ago it would cost several times more to max our your RAM than it did to purchase the computer. Buy a $3k computer, put in $5-10k RAM (and drop another couple grand on a 20 MB hard drive).
CD-Rs burned as audio and not data, have both properties. Bad "bits' on an audio CD are no worse than loss on a tape, the player will play it just fine (but the sound is degraded). Unless it is really bad you can even get a good rip of a (slightly) damaged audio CD.
What I find fascinating is Genesis was written well over 2000 years ago (closer to 3k?). Look at the order in which things were created in that story, from light being first to the order in which the various forms of life were created. It bares an uncanny resemblence to what science and evolution describe.
I agree with most of what you've said. I always thought it a bit hypocritical when the traditional news outlets complained about online journalism being shoddy while they were publishing inaccurate information themselves.
The part I partially disagree with is your Slashdot comment. No its not the pinnacle of journalism but it and other online sites have one advantage the "traditional" outlets don't -feedback. IMO there's nothing better for providing "both sides" of the story than allowing anyone and everyone to add their opinion, experience and facts to the story. Just think if the NY Times had a policy of publishing every letter sent to the editor. Now that will keep you honest.
Actually it has been tested. Eben Moglin would argue it simply hasn't made it to court because it clearly can't be beat. From one of his speech
"For ten years, I did all of the GPL enforcement work around the world by myself, while teaching full time at a law school. It wasn't hard, really; the defendant in court would have had no license, or had to choose affirmatively to plead my license: they didn't choose that route. Indeed, they didn't choose to go to court; they cooperated, that was the better way. My client didn't want damages, my client wanted compliance. My client didn't want publicity, my client wanted compliance. We settled for compliance all the time. We got compliance all the time."
Basically, when faced with actually going to court, people violating the license have always come to the conclusion that they couldn't win.
Personally, as far as the "attention span" and the idea of temporal oder, kellaris misses a few important ponts:
1) The majority of albums these days are not like many of the albums of old where the song order really is important in telling a "story". They're simply a collection of songs stand-alone songs.
2) One artist/producer/marketeer/whoever' idea of the best song order is not going to be the same as anyone else's. Furthermore, I'm not going to credit that individual (or individuals) with being any more competent than I am at deciding what order I would like to listen to the songs on an album. Sorry for the rant, but I'm tired of "artists" insinuating that their vision is the only correct vision (ie Madonna thinking its an assault on her artistic vision and integrity for someone to want to buy only a single song from one of her albums).
3) We've been subjected to the "random" shuffle for decades -its called the radio (the DJ's I know are about as random as you can get).
The topic is music and how the order in which songs are played affects the phsyche and the soul, and you guys have likely turned it into a 50-100 post discussion/argument/rant on the proper statistics to apply in various and sundry situations.
My advice to everyone reading : Leave before its too late!
I was thinking maybe Apple should go ahead with this with the added condition that Real write (or allow Apple to write) a free plugin for Quicktime that plays Real media.
Slashdot Mirror
For some reason, reading that caused flashbacks to dissection labs in biology.
I'm thinking if his email client is opening mail that doesn't have him as one of the recipients, he does have a better email client!
And if you've got kids you go through those copies even faster!
"There may be workarounds, but there will also be a fair number of people who will not want to put forth the effort to deal with such workarounds. It is a matter of convenience."
Amen! Just getting the !@#$% wrapper off is sometimes more of an inconvenience than its worth!
I really don't think the RIAA cares about our convenience.
So how does the copier keep track? it can't alter the read only CD. Would it be the device reading the disk (which could be a simple CD player) keeping track or the burner? Either the "reader" has to have a way of knowing what I'm going to do with what's being read, or the "burner" needs a way of knowing where the source came from.
What's to keep someone from simply "wiping" the copier's memory (knowing the RIAA it would be as difficult as turing the machine off then back on)?
Finally, what's to keep me from using multiple copiers?
As the GP said, without a centralized database, how can the number of copies really be counted?
But the big question is, how does the CD know how many times its been copied? How can a read-only CD know if its being "read" for playback vs. "read" for duplication?
And as for the copies, how does it know what generation it is? AFAIK it has no way of telling the copy software to decrement a counter or anything like that.
I'm really just trying to figure out how this whole scheme is supposed to work without relying on a centralized "DRM Server" to keep track of copies.
But then its a simple matter of mutliple reads and/or better hardware. At the very worst you get a decent copy that can then be copied flawlessly thereafter -a lot of work and cost for zero real-world benefit.
Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't know how a CD could know if its being read for playback vs. copying unless its simply designed not to be readable at >1X speeds or it has a way of "phoning home".
Does anybody know how this stuff supposedly works?
And that's what worries me. How do you actually keep track of how many copies have been made when you're talking about a read-only storage medium (the CD)? The only way is if the copying device is keeping track, presumably via software, And then you need some centralized control to keep track of the copying devices....
The public would be screaming if the Office of Homeland Security wanted to keep track of stuff like this, but its OK if its your friendly big brother Business.
"The kind of person who buys camcorder copies of feature films isn't going to be too bothered by the odd artefact ..... "
By "odd artefact" do you mean the occasional frame or two where you can actually tell which character you're looking at?
Just like the P2P networks. That's not where the entertainment industry is losing their money to piracy, but its good for headlines.
"I don't know about the UK, but in the US movie ushers are teen-age kids."
Which brings up the question, what are those teenage kids really going to be scoping for in the dark theatre?
OTOH some people would see being able to talk the bean counters into a trip to Europe when a trip to the library would suffice as pure brilliance.
Of course if you're the president of the company you probably don't have to do much convincing -except maybe to a board.
Don't forget the viruses that have RNA instead of DNA.
Also keep in mind it was a much rarer event for people to stand in line for the hours that people did for Star Wars, much less the fact that people didn't tend to watch the same movie in the theatre over and over and....
I thought this was a feature of Panther, not HFS+.
HFS+ has been around since OS 8.5 (?? somewhere in OS 8). So either this is a feature of HFS+ that hasn't been implemented until now, or its a bit of code added to Panther. Or has HFS+ been updated?
Wih the iPod's drives getting bigger with each generation, I'm wondering how long it will be until the iPod supports the lossless compression scheme Apple unveiled in its lates iTunes update.
On another note, I'm stil trying to figure out what the "Apple Lossless Codec" actually is. Anybody know off hand?
Yeah, I remember waiting for prices to drop to $100 / 1 MB SIMMs before upgrading.
It wasn't all that long ago it would cost several times more to max our your RAM than it did to purchase the computer. Buy a $3k computer, put in $5-10k RAM (and drop another couple grand on a 20 MB hard drive).
Are these CDs being stored or are they in general circulation?
CDs in general circulation don't last long at all. Sometimes I am simply amazed at how beat-up CDs from the library can be and still function.
I almost completely agree.
CD-Rs burned as audio and not data, have both properties. Bad "bits' on an audio CD are no worse than loss on a tape, the player will play it just fine (but the sound is degraded). Unless it is really bad you can even get a good rip of a (slightly) damaged audio CD.
What I find fascinating is Genesis was written well over 2000 years ago (closer to 3k?). Look at the order in which things were created in that story, from light being first to the order in which the various forms of life were created. It bares an uncanny resemblence to what science and evolution describe.
I agree with most of what you've said. I always thought it a bit hypocritical when the traditional news outlets complained about online journalism being shoddy while they were publishing inaccurate information themselves.
The part I partially disagree with is your Slashdot comment. No its not the pinnacle of journalism but it and other online sites have one advantage the "traditional" outlets don't -feedback. IMO there's nothing better for providing "both sides" of the story than allowing anyone and everyone to add their opinion, experience and facts to the story. Just think if the NY Times had a policy of publishing every letter sent to the editor. Now that will keep you honest.
Actually it has been tested. Eben Moglin would argue it simply hasn't made it to court because it clearly can't be beat. From one of his speech
"For ten years, I did all of the GPL enforcement work around the world by myself, while teaching full time at a law school. It wasn't hard, really; the defendant in court would have had no license, or had to choose affirmatively to plead my license: they didn't choose that route. Indeed, they didn't choose to go to court; they cooperated, that was the better way. My client didn't want damages, my client wanted compliance. My client didn't want publicity, my client wanted compliance. We settled for compliance all the time. We got compliance all the time."
Basically, when faced with actually going to court, people violating the license have always come to the conclusion that they couldn't win.
Personally, as far as the "attention span" and the idea of temporal oder, kellaris misses a few important ponts:
1) The majority of albums these days are not like many of the albums of old where the song order really is important in telling a "story". They're simply a collection of songs stand-alone songs.
2) One artist/producer/marketeer/whoever' idea of the best song order is not going to be the same as anyone else's. Furthermore, I'm not going to credit that individual (or individuals) with being any more competent than I am at deciding what order I would like to listen to the songs on an album. Sorry for the rant, but I'm tired of "artists" insinuating that their vision is the only correct vision (ie Madonna thinking its an assault on her artistic vision and integrity for someone to want to buy only a single song from one of her albums).
3) We've been subjected to the "random" shuffle for decades -its called the radio (the DJ's I know are about as random as you can get).
Somethimes this place is too scary!
The topic is music and how the order in which songs are played affects the phsyche and the soul, and you guys have likely turned it into a 50-100 post discussion/argument/rant on the proper statistics to apply in various and sundry situations.
My advice to everyone reading : Leave before its too late!
I was thinking maybe Apple should go ahead with this with the added condition that Real write (or allow Apple to write) a free plugin for Quicktime that plays Real media.