Slashdot Mirror
Apple Previewing New Power Mac?
dunric writes "CNET.com reports that Apple Computer may be previewing a new Power Mac, complete with dual G5 processors and a more advanced memory configuration." The "previewing" isn't intentional, though -- the report is based on service and repair documents distributed last month and reported on AppleInsider.com. AppleInsider has taken down at least one image from their report, but have added an artist's rendering.
why wouldn't apple want the previewing?
to me, it seems like good advertising... for free, and you know how companies like free adverts
Apple Insider, Mac Rumors and a bunch of other sites have been reporting this for at least a week.
There seems to be either a huge heatsink or some kind of cover over it in this image Here looks cool.
Honestly, the life of an Apple product is a lot longer than a typical windows PC. I still use my Powermac 9500 (running 10.3.4) but I have retired my 600Mhz Pentium III.
And how many people do you see driving old BMWs compared to Toyotas? Which looks better?
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Check this link out from Appleinsider under the user name "windowsblowsass". I thought that was humorous.
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
This may be the picture you are looking for...
...
New G5 Picture
nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Unfortunately, you didn't seem to get a keyboard that has caps lock or shift keys.
And how many people do you see driving old BMWs compared to Toyotas? Which looks better?
Except that while the Toyata might look like a pile of shit, its engine will keep running perfectly for hundreds of thousands of miles needing nothing but regular spark plug and oil changes.
Meanwhile, while the BMW may look nicer, it's going to need costly repairs and engine overhauls every 50,000 miles or so.
With WWDC coming up, isn't it somewhat obvious that apple is preparing a new PowerMac? Most likely a new revision of most of there stuff.
I mean, they are coming out with 10.4 at the WWDC, why not new hardware to run it on?
Error 407 - No creative sig found
Not saying it isn't fast, but why all the fuss over pictures?
... to many Apple fans, this is a simple way of gauging Apples' intentions for the future... if they make major exterior design changes, it usually indicates a change in architecture.
...
The design of Apple computers is one of the things, small and insignificant though it is, that differentiates Apple from its competition.
Like it or not, people do have an affinity for aesthetic design. Compare your average Dell to a G5, and you'll see the difference.
There are some that assume that any 'major change in industrial design' which Apple introduces to its product line will signify a shift in direction for the company. When the tiBooks came out, for example, it was clear that Apple was 'rejuvenating its purpose as a computer designer/manufacturer'
Strange, perhaps, but I believe this has something to do with marketing, not technology. Many computer geeks forget that marketing is the only thing that truly counts in computers these days
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I'll take any Mac that runs at 1GHz or more (...not saying that 2 or 3GHz wouldn't be nice...). The family computer is shared by 4 people and runs at 800MHz. I want to get my own computer, so I can fill it up with my junk instead of everyone else's.
Why do people prefer good-looking cars over jalopies?
Do you really need to ask this question? Apple is one of the few companies that actually treats computers like a home appliance. You want a home appliance that looks good in addition to running well.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Have you upgraded that 9500? Did you need to "fool" the OSX installer into cooperating?
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
You forget fans of automobiles, they obviously care how their products look!
GPL Deconstructed
That's all I have to say about the new PowerMac.
Yes, the 9500 has been upgraded. G4 700, 1.5 gigs of ram, Firewire/USB/IDE card. And I pursuded it to install OS X with XPostFacto. Stable, fast system.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Care to share your parts and prices? Also, are you using a legal copy of Windows?
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
Please post your complete system specs and that of your brother's machine. Let's do an apples to Apple's comparison.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Go to Wired and check out their Cult of Mac blog, and I think get have some pics/more info on this.
I know nothing
Honestly, the life of an Apple product is a lot longer than a typical windows PC. I still use my Powermac 9500 (running 10.3.4) but I have retired my 600Mhz Pentium III.
That all depends on your uses...I've still got a 7 year old PII chugging along. It's by no means my primary machine, but it still serves a purpose for me.
And how about the other 90% of the population who cannot do that?
People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for Ferraris and Lamborghinis too you know.
GPL Deconstructed
Is that the rumor is that the next "generation" of the G5 will be all duals. This definitely puts a kink in my plans to buy a dual 1.8, esp. since Apple tends to keep the same prices but bumps up the specs when they make new releases(and doesn't sell the old stuff anymore), and since I am a student, it seems the best deal is to buy off apple themselves(through the $99 student developer program you can get 1 hardware purchase at about 20% off, more than pays for itself even against the normal student discount)
Only for an apple product would the fans care more about how pretty it looked, rather than how fast it ran. Not saying it isn't fast, but why all the fuss over pictures?
:)
This time, because there are no specs to go with the pictures. We have an image to pore over, look at, spot the differences in, all in the vacuum before a product release. It gives us something to do
Last year was the opposite. A leak for a few hours on Apple's own site had a picture of the current G4 models, but with the new G5 specs listed next to it. Then, we didn't have a picture but only an idea of how fast it ran.
People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for Ferraris and Lamborghinis too you know.
Apple is NOT the Ferrari of the computer industry.
They're more like the Lincoln of the industry. More expensive than the "average" computer, of better quality than the "average" computer, but not leaps and bounds beyond everyone else.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
me too.
i'll never understand why people drive jaguars. my 70's chevy impala station wagon was way faster.
K.
Apple hardware is supposed to be where form meets function, the state of the art in personal computers. At several times this has been true and these machines may very well represent that principle from a technical standpoint. Early and recently in Macintosh's lifetime it has been the pinnacle of home computing in many ways. Right now, whatever you think of their politics or their price tags, you have to appreciate their technology. And, at the same time, they havr tended to have some of the most functional and attractive cases in the personal computer market.
So, naturally the Macintosh today attracts both people who want a good-looking computer, and those who want a technogically superior (not in every way, obviously, but it has some serious advantages over "the competition". This hasn't really been true for Apple since the days of the Macintosh II family - when it was young, that is. Arguably they reached that point with the dual G4, and equally arguably with the existence of some of the nice shiny hammer-core processors available now they don't have it at this moment, either, but this is my personal perception :P
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You have no idea. Wallow in your ignorance.
Honestly, the life of an Apple product is a lot longer than a typical windows PC. I still use my Powermac 9500 (running 10.3.4) but I have retired my 600Mhz Pentium III.
So what? I still use my pentium 200, and I'm fixing up a pentum 90 to use as a firewall. I will admit my computer use habits are not typical, but how many people still use their Powermac 9500s? Maybe you're not a typical user either.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
Like many things, you can get as much out of it as you are willing to.
They're not pictures of the outside of the case, but of the INSIDE of the case: so they are seen as clues to changes to the engineering. As for "how fast it ran," I suspect the megahertz myth is lurking behind that phrase.
Yeah, they shrunk the motherboard, reworked the cooling system and added more space for drives inside. From an engineering standpoint, that is a big deal.
But in general, it seems that Apple's hardware has a longer life than your typical Windows PC.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Apple claimed to make the fastest computer (G5) but it was compared to buisness enterprise CPU's and not overclocked home PCs. I suppose they will say this new G5 is the fastest computer yet again.
Have you metaroderated recently?
I'm an Apple fan, and I agree with you. The only thing one can see in the picture is that the motherboard is smaller. Some have speculated that this may be a low-end machine. I'm not going to worry about it until WWDC.
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.
I still use my Performa 600 runing system 7.5. I don't use it for anything except cheap arcade games, but I use it.
Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
Got to argue against you here. PIII 500mhz, running Windows 2000 Server at home as we speak. Got 4 40 gig drives in it and it supports all of my ftp needs.
http://jayceecorder.blogspot.com
God I hate posts like this.
My iBook has had the logic board replaced 4 times. In the first year I owned it, I had a month of downtime. After the OS 10.2.8 update, I had to reboot almost every day, even when I wasn't doing anything more than browsing the web. That's more than windows.
Some people have perfect experiences with Apple. But some don't.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
June 23, 2003
visit http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc03/ and fast forward to 1:51:50
"We're at 2GHz today. IBM and Apple are today announcing that within 12 months that we'll be at 3GHz. 3GHz processor clock. That's up 50% within 12 months. And so, believe me, this architecture has legs."
Some people dispute what Jobs meant when he said that. At best, it could mean new 3GHz G5 PowerMacs by late June. Or at worst, it could mean that IBM will release a 3GHz G5 Processor by August 2004, since the G5 PowerMac was slated to ship in August of 2003.
She loves me: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 She loves me not: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688BF
Because the pictures show a smaller motherboard, which indicates:
.9 fab process variety, and
A) that the G5 processors used will almost certainly be of the
B) that there will be room in the case for an additional 2 hard drives, the lack of which space was a big complaint about the Rev. A models.
--- Submission is feudal.
Doesn't it make sense to spend the $50 and get a Linksys or something firewall/router???
I mean, the power consumption alone ought to warrent it.
I'll take quality (Toyota) over crap (BMW) any day.
you've obviously driven neither.
Who the hell can say that Apple is not THE SHIT?
:)
- Cocoa
- Quartz
- Stylish industrial design.
- Best tech support in the business. They treat you WELL!
I go to the library with my puny little iBook and chicks come talk to me. OVER a freaking computer!!!
You can run all kinds of free software thru Fink.
You can run Windows thru Virtual PC (Dog slow, but it works).
They include X11, Developer tools, all kinds of pretty things....
WHAT MORE CAN YOU WANT?????
Can't wait until they put Gianpaolo to good use and get rid of HFS+, though. Case preservation can kiss my ass.
I'm 28, been using computers since 5. Apple is THE SHIT!!!
I had forgot about the fun in computing until I got my first Apple in 2001.
There are a lot of old dogs, who have been through a lot of shit, and they all say that, for example, a Powerbook is what computers should have been all along.
Damn right.
BTW... screw Political Correctness. You all post shit on slashdot like you were waiting a table. You CAN make a valid point and still say the word FUCK. It's OK.
I like this quote by Lenny Bruce (don't know who the hell he is, but anyhow):
'Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government.'
Take care! Oh, and get a Mac. You'll see what I'm talking about.
P.S. - It rules when a HOT chick you just hooked up with complains about the breathing led on your sleeping Mac.
Yes, it is possible to write some serious code and still pull ass.
Wasn't Feynman the biggest nerd ever, and still able to pull ass?
Feminists hated the bitch, and he was fucking with quantum physics.
How can you not admire a dude like that, who goes to Brasil to learn how to play the bongos
Some idiot writes 10 lines of PERL and thinks it's OK to have no game. Pathetic.
What's the point of being able to mess (as in write/modify -- not compile) a kernel if you can't walk up to a HOT girl and say:
"Hi! I'm XYZ. You have a beatiful smile. Can I buy you a drink/Hold this for you/Open the fucking door/Give you flowers/whatever the fuck?"
Women are humans. Humans.
Sorry about the offtopicness but half of the blogs I read, from people who write better code than me, are depressing because those dudes can't get laid.
"When I go to a conference, I relate to those people, but how do I talk to girls?"
Geek guides for dating.... WHAT THE HELL!!!!!!
There is NO guide for dating.
Be the fucking man. Be assertive. Be strong. Just fucking do it.
Insecure? Go test your fucking limits: skydive, pump iron, pick a fight... do something fucking manly... and you get women.
That's it. I'm sick of this post. Take care.
Please remove parent post.
Love,
Apple.
Yeah, but for DAILY use? Using it as a server is one thing, but being able to function as a machine someone uses?
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
That's funny, because I have a 2.8 GHz machine with 1 GB of DDR and a nice, big 120 ultra scsi that I paid 1.2K for the parts on, and run Windows XP on, and my 1.8 G5 (which I paid 2.5K for) blows it away on every program they have in common: Photoshop, Celestia, SETI@Home, Word (yes, Word on a Mac blows away Word on a Windows computer - me thinks Microsoft should look into going PowerPC), iTunes, VNC, any kind of number crunching. Meanwhile, OS X is twice as stable (i.e., crashes half as often); and that 2.8 GHz P4 is a replacement for a 2.6 GHz P4 processor that only lasted a year, as did the mother board; can't say that there's any proof yet that the 8 month old G5 is more reliable hardware, but my 2001 iBook is still running strong, and still gets 2h/battery charge (with WiFi running, processor on full speed, and screen up to full brightness). I'm guessing that you're comparing a tricked out p4 that actually cost a lot more than half a grand if you count all the real expenses (like the video card - a video card comparable to the 1.6 GHz G5's would be $150; add 512 MB of memory, a gigabit ethernet card, and a DVD-R and you're already over half a grand. Toss in Firewire 800 (oh, yeah, there isn't any interface at that speed on a wintel, is there?), dual FW 400 and Dual USB2, another 3 USBs and 5.1 audio . . . then keep in mind that the 1.6 GHz PowerPC is using a very different architecture and so can't be compared to a P4 by clock speed ... and I'd say you're talking out your ass, blizzy83. (Is that your Mom's date of birth, 1983?)
Great! You can get viruses at record speed. By the time you're loaded up with the regular compliment of viruses and spyware, your computer won't be quite so blazing.
Besides, what speed tests have you done? Predicted answer: it just seems to run faster/some games FPS is higher on my computer (but again I've neglected to disclose video cards involved, etc).
This is trolling in its purest form. It blows my mind that he's been modded up to insightful.
Eh, I've had PC boards that do this as well. It means nothing!
Why do you bother with punctuation if you can't be bothered with anything else?
Really, you're just a complete prick.
From Newegg
. asp?desc ription=13-150-045&depa=1
e script ion=14-164-006&DEPA=1
a sp?desc ription=19-103-394&depa=1
a sp?desc ription=20-141-424&depa=1
a sp?desc ription=22-148-013&depa=1
c .asp?desc ription=27-154-009&depa=1
. asp?desc ription=11-138-033&depa=1
mobo
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc
$54
Entry level gamers video card
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?d
$70
cpu
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.
$138
Ram
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.
$87
hard drive
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.
59$
DVD-CDRW thingie
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDes
$72
Case
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc
$40
Total is 520 plus another ~60 for shipping
Actually, they should mod your idiotic comment [I'll take quality (Toyota) over crap (BMW) any day.] as funny. You could have just as easily said you like the Pacific Ocean better than the Mississippi River. It would have also made me smile.
I'm not going to argue that you can't build a PC for less than a low-end G5 but $500 for a system like that? You're going to drop near $500 for the CPU, motherboard & drive, and that doesn't even get into the cost of things like RAM, a case or a video card.
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
A "legal" copy? That depends on the laws you're applying/interpreting. From a technical standpoint, all MS Windows should be illegal...
Hmmm... I like the sound of that too... ;-)
<lawyerfont>IANAL</lawyerfont>
I have. I had an old Camry and an old 320i. The Camry was dependable, durable, and went forever. The beemer was nasty. Looked great, people went "ooh, BMW...", but it broke down far too often.
The worst was when two hotties watched me walk up to my car, I heard one say "ooh, he drives a BMW.." - I started it up, and it belched a MASSIVE cloud of exhaust that nearly filled the block. Fortunately I used the smokescreen to escape and evaid their laughter...
So yes, this analogy is appropriate. Give me the Toyota.
It's strange, really. I actually think Apple's computers are ugly. They try to stand out. They make use of tacky colors. I've never wanted my computer to stand out. I've wanted it to be quite ignorable. It's sort of like a refrigerator or a VCR. I don't want to notice it; I want to use it.
My office still runs PII-400 machines and gets the job done very well.. and I personally have a couple of Pentium 233's at home (in addition to my more current box) that sees plenty of use..
Whats your point, or are you the one trolling here?
"Nice try injecting that into an otherwise good post, but it won't fly here." haha, looks like it does!
What do you mean "longer life"? If you're still using it, doesn't that sorta destory your argument here?
Define 'daily use'. Your trolling in this thread is getting old.
Right, because I've noticed a serious lag between when I make a keystroke and when it appears onscreen.
Computers are no longer a luxury, they are a commodity. And once something becomes a commodity, appearance becomes important. Mankind is vain.
Besides, speed is irrelevant. Computational ability is much more important. To use the beaten-to-death car anology, I have a 6-cylinder Explorer, my brother has a 6-cylinder Dodge Cummins diesel. His Dodge runs at almost 1/3 less RPMs, yet has significantly more towing ability.
The speed masters themselves at Intel have begun de-stressing MHz with their Pentium M proc.
What matters is how well the computer does what you need it to do, not how fast and hot the proc runs, unless thats what you need.
Me, I'm typing this on a 6-yr-old powerbook. Do I want the latest and greatest? Hell yes! But in the meantime I'll still get done what I need on this ol' workhorse.
(tig)
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
You forget fans of automobiles, they obviously care how their products look!
In fact, it's rather difficult to find fans of anything that don't care how their products look - with x86 computers being the only odd exception. Fans of automobiles, home cinema, audio systems, motorcycles, biking, hiking, surfing, wine tasting etc. - they all care very much about the look. They wouldn't accept the ugliness of a plain, nondescript beige-box like your average PC (try selling such a nondescript surfing board or mountain bike!). Why x86 computer fans accepted it, it's actually a very interesting question.
As usual, the zealotry here is nothing but empty name calling and mud-slinging, mostly from one (ahem) side.
Because seeing is believing? Of course, photos can be doctored, too, but there's a certain reassurance in seeing a product, rather than a list of imaginary numbers somebody typed up in five minutes.
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
They're PREVIEWING MacOS 10.4 Tiger, not releasing it, supposedly. Also, their G5s are seriously due for an update, after almost a year (if you don't count the change to the 1.8 GHz model). This would have happened sooner if IBM could produce the 90 nm chips faster, but c'est la vie...
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
You're right.
Ferraris are more expensive than the average car, of *lower* quality than the average car, and not leaps and bounds beyond everyone else.
My point was only that people pay for what they think is value, and different people have different values.
I'd rather have a house than a Ferrari; yet I would have a Mac rather than a PC.
GPL Deconstructed
Agreed!
The attention to design is extremely smart, actually. With every new revamp, the old case becomes obsolete. A PC from 2000 doesn't look all that much different from today-- but a CRT iMac, a Pismo, a slate G4 looks ridiculously out-of-date. Funny because they're known for their reliability-- Macs last for years and years, but six months after buying one you're drooling for the newest model.
Excuse me? Who puts graphics cards with blinkenlights an colorful fans on them into their computers? Mac users?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
What you seem to not understand is that Apple is the best at what they do, they are not the best for everyone.
I was exclusively a Mac user from the time I was 14 until I was 21. From 21 through 25 I was mostly a Mac user. Now at 28 I almost never touch a Mac. Apple's machines are no longer the best machines for what I do.
If they were the best at everything, they'd have more than an 8% share of the market.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
The significance here is that the new motherboard is smaller.
Because Apple doesn't have to create motherboards that fit some standard size and fastener layout, they're free to adjust their designs as parts change, which makes them free to adjust the external design of the machine as the motherboard shrinks.
They also have a strong desire to be able to reuse a motherboard design across multiple products.
In other words, the smaller that G5 motherboard gets, the closer we are to seeing it in a consumer iMac, or even a PowerBook.
Innovation doesn't just grow on trees, and Apple's proprietary designs give them the flexibility needed to produce unique computers.
By contrast, there have been around, what, five? standard PC motherboard sizes since the 386. Commodity parts are great for end user prices, but commodity means "same", and it shows in the final product.
You think the G5s make use of tacky colors? Have you even looked at them, they are white and metallic.
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals."
Don't lump everyone (x86 users) into the same group. I am very happy with a nice no-frills beige box, because they line up nice when I've got 15 of them on a shelf, and have plenty of room on the inside for components, easy to repair, etc.
I also enjoy some of the Dell cases. Simple designs, but they can stand out (the GX270 small form factor is just damn cute).
Some people like Alienware cases, I think they're hideous. I feel the same way towards the G5 cases. They just look silly to me.
Go to Circuit City/Best Buy/CompUSA. Count the number of "nondescript beige-box(es)". Now count the number of distinct, modelled cases. You'll find the former in the minority.
re: bikes. Go talk to a professional biker. Guess what matters more in a race? Quality tires/frame/etc, or a flame decal?
Heck, I still use my 8500 daily and my webserver is a Quadra.
I'd like to see some benchmarks on performance there...
... $54
... $70
... $138
...$87
... $59
... $72
... $40
Here's what you're paying for on the mac:
mobo
The Mac mobo supports pci-x, serial ata and up to 1ghz fsb. It can also take up to 8 gigs of DDR-400 RAM if you want/need it. Also, what about the gigabit ethernet, optical spdif audio, bluetooth, etc?
Entry level gamers video card
The Mac video card, a GeForce FX 5200, supports two monitors and is rather faster than that entry level card. Still, it's not that much more expensive.
cpu
The G5 is probably not as fast, but it has a faster fsb and a comparable vector processing unit. I don't know about you, but in most of the stuff I do, the fsb and vector unit are more important than raw crunching here (not to mention the video card). For compilation, the Athlon would probably win.
Ram
Same as you get through Apple, but they mark it up.
hard drive
Apple is using larger drives (yours is only 40gb) and they're SATA rather than IDE... should give you a faster transfer rate there.
DVD-CDRW thingie
Yep, can't beat you there, I have one of those and it's quite a nice drive. Apple is using an older Pioneer drive, which is also unfortunately more expensive.
Case
The G5 case has you beat pretty soundly. It's higher quality if heavier material. It's extremely quiet (to people with a normal hearing range, it's a bit leaky in the 19k area). It's trivial to install drives: open the case door, slide the drive in, fold in the connectors (no cables to mess with). Similarly with RAM. There aren't as many drive bays, though, but Apple is supposedly going to address this in the next revision.
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
> But in general, it seems that Apple's hardware has a longer life than your typical Windows PC.
That may be because for the same price you can update a typical Windows PC more often. Many people update the PC while there is nothing wrong with the old hardware.
I was referring to the Apple product line past and present. Are you suggesting that Apple's supposed "aesthetic design" didn't manifest until the G5? Or that the G5 is Apple's only product? People have babbled about Apple's "taste" ever since Steve Jobs came back to Apple. They have a lot of products.
But the G5 isn't overly appealing, either. Shiny white that doesn't match the gray.
I like going to Apple stores and playing with the computers, but I don't find any of their desktops attractive. I like their notebooks, though.
I also don't find Aqua overly attractive, either. I never understood the interest in it. First there was the ugly striping, and then the move to brushed metal this and that. Tacky. They could have modernized the NeXT look and that would have been great.
I actually liked the classic MacOS look as well. That could have been modernized and that would have worked.
I think Apple's "aesthetic taste" just doesn't apply to everyone. The bright Plastic White of their current look makes me feel like I'm in a clean room.
They aren't REAL geeks if they care too much about the looks!
Blar.
While I was in college, I debated with myself over buying an Apple vs. an X86 computer. When I considered the reason for getting one over the other, career was the single most important objective. I'm sure a lot of people chose the X86 platform for this very reason. I am certain I made the right choice. For the past 1-1/2 decades, the X86 platform has put food on the table, payed my morgage payments, and made my life some what confortable. Apple products are the tops when it comes to design, but good design is of minor importance in the corporate world. The X86 platform is a junk storm, ideal for corporte use. When a young professional enters into the world of corp. politics, your first company computer is your bosses hand-me-down. As you climb the corp. ladder through hard work and attrition you hand down your old junk and get newer junk. At some point you get to buy your own system with the department budget. What do you buy? Answer: The cheapest computer with the most features possible, usually a mid-range Dell or equivelant. Don't worry, you'll get to hand-me-down it within 18 mo. to some fresh-out-of-college kid. I hope he knows Windows :)
OS X is twice as stable (i.e., crashes half as often);
Then you mus't be running a different OSX than I am because my windows XP machine crashes maybe once a month AT THE MOST when my girlfiends iBook kernel panics at least weekly. I don't see how this makes a stable machine in any way let alone twice as stable.
Of course, if you do actual technical work instead of IT, you end up working with Unix boxes. A good comp sci person can work with any platform, regardless of what they use at home.
I'm probably not the only one who feels Apple has a glaring hole in it's current product line: the small form factor desktop. At the moment, the choices are the HUGE G5 tower (clearly designed to be placed on the floor rather than on a desk), or the all-in-ones e/iMac. Personally, I don't find any of the desktop designs particularly attractive. The iMac design is really an acquired taste, while the eMac somehow manages to be uglier than the old CRT iMacs. Many people are moving to LCD screens, and Apple selection is a bit lacking.
I really wished Apple would release something like the Dell SX270 with a G4 at a low price, basically an e/iMac sans monitor. I know last time Apple tried something in this direction didn't work too well, but the Cube was just too expensive for what it offered.
You're a moron.
This is not a bunch of people going "OOOOOOOHHHHH, shiiiiiiiiny!" and mooning over a case design-- the photo and artist's rendering are of the INTERNALS of the machine, and the excitement is over just what the differences are between the current Power Macs and the unreleased ones apparently depicted in the pictures, as well as what is lurking under that huge metal plate where the CPU heatsinks live in Power Mac G5 Revision A.
Apple's design goes beyond aesthetics. For example, the new keyboard's don't have a "scroll lock" or "num lock" keyes. The reason for this is not just so that they can eliminate a few keys, but because they're not needed.
If I have a full size number keypad, why would I want to switch it off and on? (and for those 12 of you that actually use the diagonal arrows instead of arrows, I don't really care to hear the explanation)
And WTF is "scroll lock" again?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
> Right now, whatever you think of their politics or their price tags, you have to appreciate their technology.
Care to be a little more specific? Which technology are you talking about?
> And, at the same time, they havr tended to have some of the most functional and attractive cases in the personal computer market.
That's rather subjective. I don't consider any of their current desktop designs particularly attractive.
Is it too early to start talking about a case redesign from Apple?
I'd love to see a small box instead of a tower. Worked great for Sun's "pizza box" and "lunch box" server models, and those are even stackable.
If they really can't design something that size that would be heat efficient with the (expected) speed bump, they could still use that smaller board with slower speed CPUS that use the new die. Surely they've already figured the temperature issue out with their work on the XServes, though?
If Apple doesn't do it, I'll bet someone else will.
Get off my launchpad!
Apple is one of the few companies that actually treats computers like a home appliance.
Which is why you can use the G5 as a cheese grater.
common sense: noun
What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
"Apple's design goes beyond aesthetics"
Yep. I still own one of the old iMacs. It makes a fine mp3 player in the living room.
I am reminded of the famous Apple design aesthetic each time I try to use that round mouse.
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
Geez, yeah, my mirror finish front Athlon 64 small form factor from Shuttle is real ugly. And man, I can only fit three of them in the same space as a G5 PowerMac. Better yet, I can build each one under $1,000 each, and run several 64 bit and 32 bit OSs on them. But that is ugly. My X800 Pro and Farcry looks so ugly.
ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
You're either doing something veeery wrong with the x86 hardware, or you're buying junk parts. This is a nice story, but it don't hold water in my experience.
Hardly a fair comparison then isn't it?
For the price you paid for that upgrade, you probably could have bought a new PC.
(Note: I still run a P3 500 as my main system, it works)
generally Apple get's very good points from analysts when they see how small Apple's inventory is... hrm i can't think of the term but generally Apple does not have more than a few weeks of products in limbo. they have an issue with iPod minis and that's the hard drive manufacturer. while it isn't great to have demand outpace supply, it's better than having mountians of devices nobody will buy. some companies live by that motto..... Minui Coopers, Harley Davidsons and Triumph motorcycles for example. they take it to an extreme (somepared to Apple), but they know every vehicle they make will be sold right off. that's a nice place to be.
the delay on the new powermacs has def been processors. it's possible there are other components, but Apple and IBM admitted there were issues at the IBM chipmaking plant that caused problems for supplies getting to Apple. it was the chip that is in the current Xserves and rumored to have been in the G5 tower revision. now the speculation is that the G5 tower may hop right up to the next chip revision alltogether.
My G4 iBook still has numlock
But I fail to see how it is useful
4 5 53 6 6 5 5 443.
Hence the popularity of case modding.
Especially if one of the posts on MacRumors is remotely true. The poster stated that 'a friend' told him that it's actually just a big flap that is covering a new liquid cooling system.
If that's even close to true that means 3.0GHz G5s are here. That's exciting.
What'd be more exciting to me is if they come out with an iMac G5. My 800Mhz is long in the tooth for video editing.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
I would say that there is a certain segment of the x86 market that truely does care about how their pc looks. and im sure you could find examples in almost any other market / hobby etc
http://pcdb.overclockers.com.au/g allery.php?type=lrate
so you can moce around witout loosing cell focus.
I bring this up, because this keyboard will make some features in office unusable.
It is often faster then using the mouse.
Numlock is used in some older games, makes moving diaganol easy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I haven't seen a beige box PC for awhile now. True, most PC cases these days are ugly plastic jobs, but the same seems to be true of cars too, so chalk that up to bad consumer taste. A G5 looks nice, but these machines are hardly nondescript beige boxes!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
How do you figure? Iwould say PC owners have a tendency to upgrade there computer more often, not becasue of quality, because of ease.
It is far wasier and cheaper to upgrade a PC, then it is to buy a new PC. PC owner often buy New video card, sound cards, etc... even when the aren't strictly needed. I have a garge full of 386, 486, that will still boot into DOS. and run 3.1. Go to any center the collect used PC, and you can proably find 10 to 12 year old PC's that will boot. Stilldoing what it was designed to do.
Since many Vendors are used to make PCs its difficult, if not impossible, to say the PC will last longer then the MAC. so PC's will fail sooner, but then those were made cheaper, and some system that have the same specs will last a long time becasue there manufacturing process was better.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Oh, by the way:Not necessarily, because MS got it's monopoly before they became the best.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
almost all of the 90% could build a PC, it is very easy. Building a car from scratch is not, and will cost more then if you had bought the equivilent from a lot.
Once again the computer to car analogy sucks ass.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
So? What the heck do you know?
My favorite computer designs come on SGI computers. The whole lot of them stand out--purple, teal, deep red.... What's wrong with standing out?
Or "erect" memory modules, as they're no doubt at least subconsciously thought of in those circles.
Actually, your G4 iBook has an F key mapped to "num lock". You can remap it if it bothers you that much...i have mine mapped to Expose Desktop.
It would be a useful key, if you knew the alternate numlock setup on your laptop by heart. I don't, but I knew a guy who did.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
- Quartz 3d, display PDF
- UNIX with a cohesive, integrated interface
- G5 processor (yes, I know IBM made it, but Apple is the only company using it in a desktop)
- PCI-X, Firewire, etc.
Also, whether their cases are attractive or not, they are functional. Consider the G5's case, with the fold-down side panel, and the elaborate noise-reduction technology (which could also be listed above)."[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
How many of those people are using the current Windows version? Yeah. That's what I thought.
Windows gets slower and more loaded every release. MacOS tends to get faster, leaner. With the exception of the OS 9-> OS 10 move--which was a huge discontunity in the large scheme of things (like Windows 3.1 -> Windows 95 in the PC world). Still, 10.3 is hugely faster than 10.1, many legacy Macs are supported still, and you can bank on the probability that 10.4 is going to be faster and more feature filled than 10.3
The next Windows will be 50% slower, and require a 50% larger computer (but will reccomed a 200% larger machine), and will provide about 5% more functionality, with a really cool new cotton-candy sweet theme. Wow. Talk about progress.
What do you do, then?
Gaming & programming primarily.
The Mac is the best machine for what my girlfriend does (she's an art student majoring in animation)
No question about it.
and for what I do (computer science student).
That's a bit of a stretch.
IMHO, it's also the best machine for what casual computer users (read: n00bs) would do (i.e. email, web browsing etc) just because it's easier to avoid viruses and malware.
In a vacume that would be correct, but in this world n00bs need to rely on their friends and relatives who have more experience than they do. Most of the people out here know about Windows. Have a problem with your machine, you'll have less trouble getting help with a Windows setup.
Not necessarily, because MS got it's monopoly before they became the best.
I disagree. Mac OS 7 was superior to Win 3.1 in many ways even System 6 was on par with Windows 3.1 but MS dominated the marketplace anyway.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Funny, I priced out and got a G5 1.6 GHz with 512 MB and no superdrive for about $1300. Granted that's Edu pricing, but I got the OS, iLife, and firewire in the bargain. Yeah, they're more expensive, quality products are. They aren't mind-blowingly more expensive.
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
as good I'll buy that machine. Your view is too simplistic. It's not just the hardware, it's the software as well. And XP doesn't compare to OS X in any way.
Congratulations. You have created a detailed Apple-is-Too-Expensive response to an Apple article. Your numbers were nice, and though your prose lacked both quality and originality, I assume you care about either and merely wanted the most cost effective language that could complete the task. As a Slashdot-pronounced "Mac-loving, astroturfering fag" I should attempt to construct the requisite "stupid windows user, nobody cares how cheap your Athlon 64 system was, the Mac is a superior package" response. But my heart's not really into it. So I'll respond thusly:
Good for you. You should be very proud of yourself, creating a nice, fast, usable computer for a very decent price. I personally have been scammed into purchasing four of their computers over the past 10 years for prices that were 10-30% higher than their warranty-free open market PC equivalents. I suppose I should be upset about being a victim of Apple's unfair pricing, but I'm not. I like my Apple gear. It's really good stuff.
Incidentally, if your friend was REALLY doing anything serious with databases, he'd have asked you to scrap the fancy graphics card for a RAID setup with dual CPUs.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Fine, then compare resale value. 333 Mhz iMac vs. 350 Mhz PII Compaq.
That's $330 vs. $59 for machines that are about the same age. Given, the Compaq doesn't have a monitor or modem like the iMac. Those two things can hardly make up for that much price difference though. It's simple. A four year old PC is crap. A four year old Mac is still useful. Remember that the next time you bemoan how expensive Macs are ;-)
From my own experience I would have to agree.
But kernel panics aren't as common as plain old application error (some times applications just disappearing) or just odd bugginess system wide. If your repeatedly getting kernel, either with the OS or possibly the hardware. Hardware for the power book would probably mean replacing the logic board as there isn't really much else to replace.
=1000101
No. It means that on both sides of the fence, there is some crap and some gold. And that even though they present themselves well and have a loyal customer base, Apple can shovel crap with the best of them.
I've got a Pentium 2 400. I believe it's about 7-8 years old. It started out running NT, but then I moved to Linux and now it's OpenBSD. I have yet to see it crash, though to be fair I lived in Houston when it ran NT and the power there was way to unreliable to give me a good idea of how long it could have gone without a reboot.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
The only stretch is whether it's better than a Linux computer, which has the advantage of coming with GCC and Emacs by default, and being the turn-in platform for my homework (we can write it on whatever we want, but it has to compile on RedHat9/x86). However, my Mac's user interface is enough better than Linux's to compensate.
Okay, I have to admit that back then I didn't use OS 7 enough, or understand enough about computers, to know whether it was better or not. However, by that time they had already lost because they wouldn't allow clones, and IBM did. The fact that all the clones could run Windows (and MS-DOS, for that matter) was what allowed MS to get their monopoly in the first place.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Funny that the slowest G5 on Apple's website costs $1,799. But of course, we couldn't ask you to actualy, you know, check facts could we? No that would be stupid. And even more amusing is that with one click and a sacrifice of DVD writing capabilities, I can knock that price down to $1,599. And that's before I applied any discounts I could get.
And why do you add the price of a monitor to the mac but not to your PC? Do you not think that I can plug in the monitor I have at home to my mac? Are you stupid?
2) You forgot to add in your expenses for warranty & support.
3) Your base price is wrong - the G5 is $1800, not $1900.
4) Drop the DVD burner & modem from the G5 & it's $1570 - with an OS, AppleWorks, iLife, et. al. Of course, you can always nuke it & run Darwin or Linux.
So, for an extra $275 you get an engineered, warrantied, professionally manufactured machine that you can easily upgrade to dual CPU in the future. Just my 16#0000_0000_0000_0002# cents worth.
Trust me. This is an inactive account. Regardless of what the
I said "(in case he upgrades his desktop, he can swap video cards and use this for his gaming) ".
Second, I never said anything serious. It's for his studies at home so he can practice considering his main desktop is weak.
Third, when did I say that he has windows installed on it? I said SuSE.
Fourth, that motherboard supports Raid of SATA drives so he can try that later if he wants (but I doubt it)
Fifth, superior package? For me superior package is stable hardware. When you got stable hardware, you can get stable software working in a matter of time and I could careless for Apple's technical support as far as computers@home goes. My technical support for my home usage is the internet and it does a damn good job.
Sixth, in this world we live in there are many choices and linux distributors are proving to the world that Linux is an efficient solution for the PC so don't come telling me mac is a superior package when you can also have a superior package on pc running linux at the simple price of $0.
I suggest for people to buy a new pair of eyes in case yours are blinded from the dreaded shock sites.
A good example is the HP I have sitting next to my mac. When the mac is asleep, a small 1 inch circle of dim light slowly and pleasently pulsates. OTOH, the HP has a huge 3 or 4 inch square of bright blue light that blinks to indicate the machine is asleep. The mac pulsing can be ignored. The HP demands the attention of all in the room. Is this some inferiority complex on the part of HP. I mean it is like a child who screams just to get attention.
The pulsing is a good idea. Unfortunately, the designers at HP just haven't a clue of what the idea is.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Best. Post. Evar!!!111
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
I have a 350Mhz pentium 2 that I use on a daily basis. The only thing I don't use it for is gaming.
"Superior package running Linux" is an oxymoron. Try "Nearly comparable package running Linux." Maybe, someday, when OSS developers find a way to make something new instead of cloning everybody's else's software, you can use the first phrase.
Hey, Windows doesn't even come with a C compiler! My iBook at least shipped with a Developer Tools CD (even if it wasn't installed by default). Also, Developer Tools is FREE. How much does Visual Studio cost again? (Actually, I can get it through MSDN-AA free, but most people probably can't)
It just so happens that Microsoft has a version of their compiler that is $Free.
Okay, I have to admit that back then I didn't use OS 7 enough, or understand enough about computers, to know whether it was better or not.
I did, and it was.
However, by that time they had already lost because they wouldn't allow clones, and IBM did.
Eventually Apple DID allow clones. Power Computing, UMAX, SuperMac, APS et all made nice Mac clones. Power Computing's top of the line was usually faster than Apple's top of the line. The PowerTower Pro series from Power Computing stomped ass all over the Powermac 8500/9500s from Apple.
This is part of the reason why Jobs killed off the clones. People who needed as much speed as possible bought Power Computing. People who needed the lowest price possible bought UMAX. People who wanted the best bang for their buck bought other clones. Only people who were loyal to the Apple brand name bought Apple.
The fact that all the clones could run Windows (and MS-DOS, for that matter) was what allowed MS to get their monopoly in the first place.
That's arguable. I agree that not allowing clones earlier was one of the biggest mistakes in all of the computing industry; but who can say how much different things would have turned out if they had allowed it earlier?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
well, not exactly. A 4-year-old PC will be dog-slow with the latest Windows. A 4-years-old Mac will be faster with the latest OSX (not by a whole lot, mind you). On the other hand, you can do a minimal Linux install on both and compare - but that's an unusual case even for the PC.
Long story short - the value of the default OS has a huge impact. And 'still useful' depends on what you need to use it for - neither will be good at playing high-res mpeg4 movies, for instance.
Of my favorite cases on that page. That guy has way too much time on his hands, impressive nonetheless.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
What are you talking about? There's entire markets devoted to unique case designs in every major form factor. Even disregarding that, PC manufacturers do the same unappealing case changes. I was just mentioning Apple because this is an article about Apple cases. Ever looks at HP desktops? Compaq desktops? Dell? Gateway?
They're all different. They all change. They add useless bits of plastic here. Change paint color.
I don't know if it's smart or not from a marketing perspective. I only know that I don't have any interest in buying one. I don't want to buy an HP desktop, either. Or a pink dishwasher in the shape of a hyperboloid.
Maybe someone has ADD.
Hah. I actually wouldn't mind that sitting on my desk, while the G5 doesn't really look all that appealing. That looks more like typical home electronics, and so would fit in nicely.
you can hang a Pizza box on the wall, behind your LCD (if that's not on the wall already)
Or put it on a stand.
Example
120 character sigs suck. Make it 250.
I have to say though, as the owner of an iBook that had to go through the logic board repair nonsense, you might have been one of the few that had real issues getting good service from Apple. Personally when I sent in my iBook for its new logic board it came back running Panther(I had sent it in with jag), a new key board, a fixed pinched cable, and they even replaced one of the little foot thingys that had fallen off. All at no cost to me, I'd have to say, for the most part, no one does a better job of taking care of customers than Apple.
Oh my, I think Dave just turned into a bear.
Games
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Illustrator
Macromedia Dreamweaver
MS Office
etc....
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
If you exclude panics caused by failing motherboards and device drivers that I was writing, I have only seem about four or five kernel panics in the 4 years I've been using Mac OS X. A weekly panic is an order of magnitude more failures than normal. The word "AppleCare" springs suddenly to mind.
120 character sigs suck. Make it 250.
Your implying that Linux is not an OS. It very much is. It doesn't have the same shiny brushed metal theme, but you can d/l it for KDE, IceWM, Gnome, etc. Linux is just as fast and stable as OSX. Plus, OpenOffice, I believe gnome has a calender program, but I don't use it. Linux comes with just as many if not more packages depending on your distro. G5's are great, but so are the new x86-64's from AMD. Their up there too, plus not that expensive depending on the model. Apple is better for dual-processing I'll agree, and for certain people OSX is just great (too flashy for me personally though). If you know where to look, you can configure a PC for a good bit less (www.pricewatch.com), and for those of us not into 3d animation, a $500 box will just be fine. For most people on slashdot, the only thing that will tax the processer/ram is a compile of some sort. Any of the AMD64's should be just fine with anything though. If your using that up, i don't know what your doing besides media.
Help Fight SPAM today!
My time is worth enough to me that I don't want to spend it pricing every component of my computer. Am I paying more than some other comparable machine? Probably. Do I regret not saving a few bucks in exchange for having the opportunty to discover that an Abit KV8-MAX3 motherboard works fine with a Antec TruePower 480W power supply UNLESS one uses Corsair's XMS PC4200 RAM? Yeah, not so much.
Also, and I realize that there is a large crowd for which this is laughable, but I use a Mac for the same reason I drive an automatic. I've got better things to do than telling the computers in my life how to do their job.
there are dual 1.8 and 2 GHz G5s on the Apple store right now. did I miss something earlier in the topic or did these just appear in the last couple of hours? http://www.apple.com/store
I have been using a 450MHz PII as my main computer for 5 years, doing high-end 3d modeling and rendering along with industrial CAD work. I also use it for typing reports, edit digital video and work with print quality images in Photoshop.
It works quite well.
UNIX? That's BSD you mean.
PCI-X? No, that was not made by Apple
I stand corrected. It flew high. Macs are a religion and what I said must have been heresy. But it's still true! Given equal processing power, the mac just costs more. The price difference is Apple's high margin.
You can't (well, you couldn't last I checked) upgrade a single CPU G5 to dual CPUs. It's a single CPU *motherboard*.
This is by your choice, not necessity. And IME at least, XP will run a hell of a lot better on your P3 than OS X will on your 9500.
People might stretch out the lives of their Macs for longer, but an old PC runs newer PC OSes a lot better than an old Mac runs newer MacOSes. Not to mention the money you save buying a PC makes buying a new one more often similar in overall cost.
Wow. You were lucky. One of the times I had mine repaired, it came back with a broken SO-DIMM. Kingston was good enough to replace it, but I was still pissed. This was an Apple authorized place, not Apple themselves, but "Apple authorized" still means something.
To be fair, I don't have any complaints about 10.3.4. I used to be able to crash it at will with 10.3.2 and lower, but that's been fixed. I haven't seen any problems with NFS support, which was buggy up until 10.3.4, and Java seems okay now. Safari still sucks, but it's not like there aren't any other browsers out there. I was thrilled when Camino 0.8 beta came out. 0.7 was my favorite till it started getting so out of date.
I have no standing issues at the moment. Broken NFS was the last thing.
Apple's on my shit list for now. I had several other issues attributable to poor QC (2 power adaptors failed after weeks of use), and I don't quickly forget stuff like that. There have been a number of other large scale fuckups like the iPod-mini headphone jack thing. My impression now is that they spend too much time making things look sexy and not enough time making them robust.
"Repair, replace, refund!" is not the motto of a company that gets my business.
If they get their act together, I will take them off the list in a few years.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
Bullshit. Any ca. 1999+ P3 class machine with sufficient RAM will run XP quite usably.
Contrast this to the PB 667 with 1GB RAM I had less than *2* years ago that was so slow running 10.3 I eventually sold it in disgust.
Old PCs run newer OSes far, far better than old Macs run newer MacOSes.
Yep, absolutely. There must be something wrong with that machine. I have used Mac OS X heavily since it came out and I've had a grand total of TWO kernel panics. This includes the four PowerMac G4s, 20 iMacs, 3 eMacs, and a 15" Ti PowerBook that I administrate at work as well as my home PowerMac G5.
TWO kernel panics. 29 Macintoshes. Four years.
I'd say that's a pretty good record.
I have also had some total lockups and instabilities, those were a bit more frequent but I'd estimate they come out to no more than once a month per machine. Most of those problems were quickly solved by a simple reboot. Some of these machines have uptimes of a couple of months so an occasional reboot is to be expected. I have one machine that has only been down in the past 3 years for the occasional security update.
RAM is the number one reason for kernel panics without a doubt. Lockups and other annoying little problems are usually a bad preference file, misset file or folder privileges, or a corrupted disk. Most of these problems are fixed easily with a few simple troubleshooting steps.
Overall Mac OS X is very stable. I hear that Windows XP is also, but I have little experience with it. Mac OS X works just fine for me and I have no need for Windows.
Sapere aude!
The same applies to his XP box if it's -really- crashing once a month.
It doesn't look that different, heatsink-wise, from my current G5 dual (size about right, but the new heatsink enclosure appears to be one instead of two boxes). The old picture is for a single processor model.
However, looking closely, there doesn't seem to be a set of front fans in the processor air path of the new dual....
They havent. People mod their cases all the time. Also look at all the cases which come stock with different paint jobs and such. There are many good looking pc cases out there, but as with most good looking things they are at a premium and a lot of people dont find it worth the extra money.
Moo!
Doesn't it make sense to spend the $50 and get a Linksys or something firewall/router???
1. Because he already owns the P90 and doesn't have to go out and buy it.
2. A P90 running Linux is far more configurable than a Linksys.
3. A P90 is far more robust than a Linksys. LS routers lock up. Often. Yes, newest firmware, bla bla bla, too late to fuck with it anymore, I gave it away under the condition that noone asks me for support.
4. There's at least 3 different Linux distros made specifically for home gateway/routers, and at least one is as easy to use as a Linksys router.
5. It's nice to have a spare machine for emergencies.
6. Old Pentium machine can run with 200W power supplies or less, and you don't need a monitor for a router. I use ssh or Putty to administer mine.
OS X is the best for what I do for a living (Solaris, RedHat admin) and personally - e-mail, web , games (not many but UT2004, and C&C Generals), MAME.
Throw in the free dev tools, and iLife, Macromedia, and Adobe product suites.
I don't need to go anywhere else thankyou.
Nice sig.
(tig)
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
I believe his point was about unmodified hardware. The original amount of RAM would not have been enough for XP.
But that's not the main point anyway. He was making an unfair comparison - "the PC is cheaper, so it must be rubbish". That argument was plain wrong.
Thanks for being a prude. While you are pursuing your moral crusade you may as well be technically proper.
Bah, faulty logic. First, the monitor difference alone accounts for about $100. Second, Compaqs are crap, even from that era. Third, supply and demand. There is a vastly higher supply of old Intel machines than old Apple machines. Is that because people don't get rid of their Apples? Not necessarily. More likely its just because there were a hell of a lot more PII machines sold 6 or so years ago than Macs. For THAT matter, I'm fairly confident the 333MHz iMac came out substantially later than the 350MHz PII, so we're not even necessarily talking the same lifecycle.
Er...yeah actually they do!
Actually, with the grid on the front of the case and the clear interior side panel the G5 makes even modding your mac simple!
Sapere aude!
Thanks for trying, though.
having just walked out of my local surf store with a brand new 6'3 2 1/4 i think i'm adequately qualified to refute that claim. of the ~30 or so boards in the store only two had full body sprays the rest where a very non-descript white.
seriously it's a computer, it sits under/beside your desk and you occaionsly press some buttons on the front of it, who cares if it's biege and non-descript?
apple design is nearly what put me off the my ibook, the garish white color combined with the guady apple logo.
but for the price, power and especially size there really is no x86 equivalent and i can still run linux on it.
I'd rather have a house than a Ferrari; yet I would have a Mac rather than a PC.
I'd rather be able to buy a house for what a Ferrari costs. Around here, houses cost an Enzo at least.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
I commiserate with your troll mod. I myself own an iBook, but personally the way the Apple fanboys behave is kindof insane.
I bought the iBook for battery life, and a nice frontend that acts as an easy intro to unix/linux/bsd. I'm steadily moving back to the pc world though, with linux.
Macs are really too overpriced, and their supposed advantages don't hold true in the real world. (My iBook crashes hangs on a regular basis, crashes with kernel panics about half as much, and so far is way more unstable than the Win98se computer I lived with for 2 years before it. But at least the sleep mode/instant wake thing is pretty cool...yippee.)
Moderate or post.. moderate or post.. hm.. post. This unbased Microsoft-bashing is getting on my tits. For the record, I love my Powerbook - but I also do cross-platform development on Windows, Mac OS 10 and FreeBSD.
Hey, Windows doesn't even come with a C compiler!
Apple's developer tools aren't installed by default either. So there's no difference. If you'll allow me to beat you with the cluestick(tm), you can download Microsoft Visual C++ directly from Microsoft.
Couple this with Scons and an editor even as basic as Windows Notepad (although I'm sure Emacs, PFE or something else would do better) - and you have a full development environment. Not a full-blown IDE, but there's nothing you wouldn't be able to do.
How much does Visual Studio cost again?
Zero. See link above.
But if you still want the IDE free - next you'll be complaining about stuff costing money and how you can't have free gasoline and nobody besides your mom will let you stay at their house without paying rent.
However, my Mac's user interface is enough better than Linux's to compensate.
KDE's come a remarkably long way. It's still not quite as polished as OS 10, although some tasks are easier to do if you're used to Windows (in OS10, I often find myself hunting for an option that I used once but forgot - I don't like the way it hides complexity). Anyway, try KDE if you've not used it recently.
But if you're still judging a relative usefulness of a computer over two very usable interfaces - especially when in the same breath you're complaining about command-line tools like GCC - I don't think you have the perspective to make a judgement call. A desktop UI should let you start and stop applications - anything else is fluff.
However, by that time they had already lost because they wouldn't allow clones, and IBM did.
IBM didn't "allow" clones. Compaq reverse-engineered the IBM bios - a hostile engineering technique. There's nothing stopping anyone from making an Apple clone - several companies did in the late 90's, but with Apple already being a fringe brand they lacked the marketing appeal to take off. Heck, even well-liked non-mainstream platforms such as the Amiga, BeOS and NeXT eventually died. A clone of a non-mainstream platform is probably doomed from day 1.
Let me know next time. I'm looking to replace my circa 1998 PowerBook G3 - 300MHz, 320MB, original 8GB HDD, OS X.3.4 via XPostFacto, loaded to the hilt with Fink, dev tools, Office vX, Virtual PC 6, and more.
There is some lag during some tasks, and when I boot into OS 9 I'm reminded how much of a performance hit OS X incurs, but it's gotten faster with each OS upgrade.
(tig)
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
I don't know why people don't realize that they should reply to comments they disagree with rather than mod them down. Really, that's not what the moderate button is for.
As for apple bullying people around, I don't think they've ever gone to court about something like this. I'd doubt they ever would, since it's bad PR, and they'd be suing the people who buy their products anyway.
Most websites put pictures like these on the internet with the understanding that they'll have to take them down in a day or so. It's kind of a game for them. They get the "secret" pictures, then put them up to show that they got them. The warning from Apple Legal is just the icing on the cake, reaffirming to them that they are uber-leet detectives living on the edge, always in danger of being shut down. Really it works out well for apple since it builds interest in their products.
Oops. My mistake. I thought it was the same scenario as the G4s...
Trust me. This is an inactive account. Regardless of what the
No I wasn't.
Besides, I've been running Linux since the 0.99.x kernels. And I run Gnome on my Sun desktop at work everday. The Linux desktops available lack the power & ease of use of OS X's GUI [not to mention a polished development environment], but that wasn't even a point in my response.
Trust me. This is an inactive account. Regardless of what the
umm...the size of the cpu has absolutely nothing to do with the size of the board. Do you really think the ram controller, ata controller, etc, etc are all going to shrink too, along with all the wires connecting them?
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose
That really does extend the automobile analogy quite well.
You don't see many tricked-out BMWs on the road, but there sure are quite a few tweaked Fords and Hondas. The typical Mac user buys a computer that looks good and works fairly well out-of-the-box, while the PC user either wants to have a machine that they can customize to death, or just wants a computer at the lowest possible cost/highest perceived value.
± 29 dB
Wow... what acid technicolor world do you live in that you'd think plain white is "garish"?!
I'm posting this anonymously because the Mac Zealots can be real fucksticks when they get mod points.
IBM didn't "allow" clones. Compaq reverse-engineered the IBM bios - a hostile engineering technique. There's nothing stopping anyone from making an Apple clone - several companies did in the late 90's, but with Apple already being a fringe brand they lacked the marketing appeal to take off. Heck, even well-liked non-mainstream platforms such as the Amiga, BeOS and NeXT eventually died. A clone of a non-mainstream platform is probably doomed from day 1.
Apple did allow the clones that used to exist. They licensed the Mac ROM to companies like Power Computing, UMAX, Supermac, Daystar and APS. Ever hear of the Genesis MP? Daystar made a quad processor SMP Mac clone. They were hella expensive but I would have loved to have 4 200Mhz PPC 604 chips in my desktop box.
One of Jobs's first actions as CEO was to put an end to all of the cloning because he saw how many people were buying the Faster/Cheaper machines that the cloners were making instead of Apple branded Macs.
LK
How many old PCs are and how many old Macs? It's demand and supply law, not quality.
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
I don't believe that your P4 CPU died after one year, sorry.
If the new G5 only gets 4 RAM slots and if the new G5 is designed for 10.4 (Tiger), then Tiger will still not be a full 64bit OS. What a pity.
Some of "everyone else's" cool technology:
- OpenGL, Freetype/Pango/librsvg
- Linux with pretty much whatever interface you like
- Pretty much whichever processor you want
- PCI-E, USB 2.0, etc.
I can't believe you call the G5 case "functional". You can't put more than 3 hard drives in there, or add even a single externally accessible drive. What the hell! As if it weren't big enough already..
I have a 7 year old 100 Mhz 6320 with 16g drive running 8.6 and an ibook 500 running 9.2. Both thru smc wireless barricade router and dsl. I have friends with 230 Mhz imac running OS9.2 and completely happy. For the money you spend on computers they should last 10 years. Otherwise you are getting screwed. I still have not switched over to OSX and wont until I can justify getting another laptop. I really dont consider OSX to be well adjusted to the consumer yet and I never want to dig into the innerd of os's. Total waste of my lifes time. My main reason for staying in OS8,9 is that I have had zero viruses etc. My router shows an average of 200 attacks a day. I have never owned a winpc and have no intention of ever starting. Everybody I know who owns one has had theirs taken out by viruses and worms. There should be a class action taken against MS for selling such trash.
The Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G4/700MHz with 1MB 3.5:1 L3 Cache goes for around $260. Maybe you could buy a new PC for that amount of money, but the sad fact is that it would still be a PC.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I just ordered a Dual 2GHz G5 last week!
This always happens....
-- thinkyhead software and media
i'll never understand why people drive jaguars. my 70's chevy impala station wagon was way faster.
The sad thing is, you totally missed the irony of using a jaguar in your analogy. Jaguars were forced to cut back to 8 cylinders and then most recently to 6 because people wanted something that got better that 15 mpg.
Jaguar is so not Apple.. Apple would never make significant changes to their product in the name of "economy".
The last time Apple announced a top-end speed bump was when they announced the G5, a year ago. Since then, AMD and Intel have announced a plethora of new chips. The average (not always on schedule, but usually) is 3-4 months between top-end speed bumps for the x86/Wintel crowd. There's a constant perception that they're making the fastest faster and they keep inertia from setting in with the regular bumps. Look at how much delaying Prescott and going with the EE chip hurt Intel vs. AMD.
For all Apple tries to claim "FAST", their speed bumps come at a snail's pace. And then, when they announce it, it's still 4-6 weeks (or more) until the first ships to consumers. On top of that, because it's so far between bumps, you're dealing with huge pent-up demand by the time they finally announce a bump. It ensures the newest hot Apple processor will be so backordered, you'll wait another 6-8 weeks for it.
By the time it's on your desk, whatever was the hot new Pentium when you ordered your hot new Apple will already be a generation old. Plus you'll have to show a LOT of patience, waiting 12-14 weeks for your new Mac, when Dell can get you the best Pentium possible in 12-14 days.
Forget about pricing and relative tech merits, Microsoft vs. the world, whatever. If Apple wants to compete with Wintel, IMO, Apple needs to update their top-of-the-line hardware more often, announce it closer to the ship date, and get it out the door in a reasonable time.
Start a happiness pandemic
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally stoked if Apple rolls out new models, faster processors, etc. but the irony of my $2500 upgrade coming with another non-scrolling mouse just pisses me off. When is Apple going to stop forcing us to purchase basic peripherals? Great design, fabulous interface..... and 3 years too late on the scrolling mouse bandwagon.
The reason for the higher resale value and lifespan of the Mac has little to do with superior quality, and much to do with the higher price of Macs (no ultra-low end there), as well as the slower pace of development of the platform. (Up until recently)
Also, the fact that Jagwire and Panther are so much faster than 10.0 / 10.1 is mostly explained by the fact that 10.0 was a real resource hog. (Still, they are great OS-es.)
> etc....
Oh, but I can assure you that SuSE certainly does run etc....
> Consider the G5's case, with the fold-down side panel, and the elaborate noise-reduction technology (which could also be listed above).
Heh, my $500 Compaq D330 desktop at work has a case that does not need tools for anything and is very quiet. P4 with a huge heatsink and one big quiet slowly rotating case fan that doubles as proc fan.
N/T...
Uhm, no, IBM didn't allow clones. In fact they tried to stop them but weren't able to do so. IIRC Compaq reverse engineered the IBM PC BIOS. In that pre-DMCA era IBM lost the process that followed.
And my FreeBSD desktop has multiple month uptimes and cost even less, so poop on you! :)
Maybe the BMW acted this way because you were insulting it by using 'beemer' as it's nickname.
'Bimmer' = BMW Automobile
'Beemer' = BMW Motorcycle
Just wanted to clear that up, thanks.
No one got beat up more often than the mimes of the old west!
>And WTF is "scroll lock" again?
It may not be used for what it was originally designed for, but it *is* the machine switch key for most KVM's
Not having one on my Powerbook is a pain when administering my Linux renderfarm...
Anyone have a good fix?
My 4-year old PIII works great with XP but only with new ATI drivers...just humming along :)
I have a 7 year old Gateway (PII 300) with XP running on it and it works fine with the RAM maxed out at 3 hundred and something. I added an LCD and a new keyboard and mouse and everyone thinks I bought a kick ass computer for my wife and kid.
7 years old. My mother has one of the IMacs that is a neon color running OS 8.X and I can not find a new printer that will hook up to it.
Well, the PowerMac you mention is still alot more expensive than the A64-machine is, if you compare the performance. Let's see:
1.6Ghz G5 vs. 2GHz A64 (2.2Ghz if newer revision)
512MB of DDR333 RAM vs. 1GB of DDR400 RAM.
80GB HD vs. 160GB HD.
GeForce 5200 Ultra vs. Ati 9800Pro
So, let's see.... You have a slower CPU, half the RAM (and it's slower as well), half the HD-space and crappier vid-card, yet your computer costs more (even with a special discount!)??? And you call that a good deal? I would say that in this case, it IS "mind-blowingly more expensive".
And I just checked the Apple store. Does a DVD-writer REALLY cost 200 bucks??? And it only burns DVD-R's! I can get multiformat (as in -R, -RW, +R, +RW) burner for under 100 bucks these days! Can you say "rip-off"?
Now, Apple laptops are more reasonably priced and they are pretty good value for the money. But your example does not help dispel the "myth" that Apple desktops are expenvice, because they are expensive.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
your arguments would hold more water if you weren't semi-literate:
"Your" should read "You're" (in at least 3 places)
"Their" should read "They're"
"G5's" should read "G5s"
"AMD64's" should read "AMD64s"
How do you expect anyone to take your arguments seriously when your grasp of the English language is so poor?
- Quartz 3d, display PDF
I have to agree with this one. The competitors (longhorn, cairo) are either vapor or far less mature.
- UNIX with a cohesive, integrated interface
It's UNIX with a particular interface. Fine if you like it and restrict yourself to carbon/cocoa apps, not so good if you don't. The cohesiveness breaks as soon as you throw in some X11 apps in the mix. You can get a cohesive, integrated interface on Linux if you restrict yourself to KDE or Gnome or GNUStep or even just the console.
- G5 processor
I don't see how this is much cooler than, say an AMD64
- PCI-X, Firewire, etc.
I don't see what's so cool about these either. You can get very nice PC mobo's with all that and more. The selection in the PC world is a bit wider than in the Mac world. You can get all the cutting edge stuff if you want, you can get ancient interfaces if you need to.
Unless Apple comes up with a docking station, this is not practical except for college students with more time than money.
"Meanwhile, while the BMW may look nicer, it's going to need costly repairs and engine overhauls every 50,000 miles or so."
Engine overhauls ever 50K?
Spoken like a man who can only afford a Toyota.
Son, a BMW inline 6 is probably one of the most reliable engines in the world. Certainly a match for a toyota.
You buy toyotas when you hate cars but need one.
You buy BMW's when you love cars and driving.
"but a well maintained Japanese care (with the possible exception of Mitsubishi) will put a BMW to shame for life span"
Keep telling yourself that. I sure it gives you something to feel better about as you putter around town in your Civic.
Don't get me wrong, I owned a Civic in '81 and I really liked it. But then I graduated college and got a real car.
That's because the average PC is, for its user, merely a tool to be used in their daily work. Tell me, how shiny and flamboyant is your tin opener? Or your hammer? Hell, what about your broom?
It's a shame most Slashdot users don't speak spanish, Ortega & Gasset made a very interesting essay about the "satisfied Spaniard rich boys" (one of his favourite phrases, calling them "señoritos") who complained loudly about how ugly and badly treated cars were in France, as opposed to how shiny they were in Spain, forgetting that people in France actually used their cars for working and not merely as a status symbol.
---- Take the Space Quiz!
Go to any center the collect used PC, and you can proably find 10 to 12 year old PC's that will boot. Stilldoing what it was designed to do.
not always. I don't think of this as a PC-vs-Mac divide, but a "build it to last" mentality that is being replaced by "shave off every last cent, and then some" modern design seems to worship. Look around and I think you'll agree that the products being manufactured today seem almost calculated to choke right after the warranty period. I remember the PCs of old - solid construction, tough materials. The plasticky crap in comparison nowadays? No contest.
10-12 year old PCs that still boot today? I'm not surprised. I'd be surprised 10-12 years down the road that anything made TODAY would boot, though.
" for a RAID setup with dual CPUs"
Is this where you tell us that RAID 0 is the way to go for important data?
"I have a 7 year old Gateway (PII 300) with XP running on it and it works fine with the RAM maxed out at 3 hundred and something. I added an LCD and a new keyboard and mouse and everyone thinks I bought a kick ass computer for my wife and kid.
7 years old. My mother has one of the IMacs that is a neon color running OS 8.X and I can not find a new printer that will hook up to it."
Probably wondering why I modded you flamebait? Well, fucktard, next time don't compare a PC that you've UPGRADED to the newest OS with a Mac that's still running the OS it shipped with. Let me guess, it's still got 32 or 64MB of RAM too?
Step 1.) 512MB upgrade for iMac
Step 2.) OS X 10.3
Step 3.) Plug in any new USB printer, choose 'Print'
Step 4.) die you witless troll fuck
Yes, the 9500 has been upgraded. G4 700, 1.5 gigs of ram, Firewire/USB/IDE card.
Yes, I'm still using my 1999 "450MHz K6-2 PC" by that logic.. I upgraded it with a new motherboard, AthlonXP 1700 and more RAM, and I imagine it was no more expensive than your G4/RAM/Firewire/USB/IDE upgrade, and certainly cheaper than a new computer.
Shit no. But a RAID 0 setup will result in greatly reduced query times and thus a much faster overall database machine. Even a software RAID will result in faster read/write times...and since you can get a second hard drive for less than half the cost of that $250 graphics card the grandparent was touting, which would you suggest for "database studies?"
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Is that the magical missing step??
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
News flash, circa 1985: the Macintosh is not (and has never been) a viable gaming platform.
"Maybe the BMW acted this way because you were insulting it by using 'beemer' as it's nickname."
Please, since when has slang had hard defined language rules. It's a beemer or a bimmer, and you understand what that means, live with it. Frankly bimmer sounds pretty stupid.
I think you're more than a little confused. Please reread the following line from my post:
I didn't say "with their use of", I said "with the existence of". In other words, now that we have high clock rate Hammer processors with dual channel memory controllers, Apple may not have technical superiority. It will be interesting to see what happens with the new G5 which we've seen the rumors of recently.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The G5 has 800Mbps Firewire which is a bus capable of transferring a peak 100MB/sec. I'd guess it has at least two connectors. Your average 7200 RPM hard drive can only spit out a sustained bandwidth of about 20MB/sec. You should be able to put at least three drives on one bus and get more than sufficient throughput. In addition, it appears that the system has three 64 bit PCI slots, any of which could be used to add further expansion, like Ultra320 SCSI (or some slower flavor) or fiberchannel.
In other words, it's not necessary to expand the system internally. Sure it costs more to add external drives, but if you're buying a mac, you've already made a statement that cost is not a concern.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
By his comment I understand him to mean he had a BMW motorcycle, retrofitted with a 320i motor with bad valve guides...
No one got beat up more often than the mimes of the old west!
That and the old jag 12 cylinders were notoriously unreliable and really needed a good redesign. 8 cylinders increases reliability simply by having fewer moving parts, and is the standard for high power luxury sedans anyway so it was a little bit of follow the herd as well.
But, just out of curiosity, is it running Win XP?
They didn't invent PCI-X or PCI-Express or whatever but that's irrelevant. If they're even using one or the other now (in the G5 pictures it looked more like 64 bit PCI) then they're the first people to do so in a big way, or more to the point to standardize on it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
HA!
Well, unmodified the situation is even worse. Compared to XP, OS X requires much more RAM *and* a decent video card to work well.
you wont bother to read this, spineless greaseball, but you can't upgrade the candy imacs to osx
if you are going to be a real zealot, then know what you are talking about
No, I'm on Windows 2000 - this is entirely through choice (I am used to it, and I don't see any advantage to upgrade). I don't think it affects my point, since (a) my machine is capable of running XP, and (b) if anything, the fact that I am happy running an older version of the operating system works in favour of the argument that older PCs are still useable.
All the Mac users I know (me included) drive stick.
Share and Enjoy!
And even if that money doesn't stretch to a whole new PC, you can certainly get a replacement motherboard with P4/Athlon for that price. And the good fact is that it would still be a PC.
Contrast this to the PB 667 with 1GB RAM I had less than *2* years ago that was so slow running 10.3 I eventually sold it in disgust.
I think something went wrong with your install of Panther. Seriously. I'm running Panther (10.3.3) on a dual-proc 867MHz with 768MB RAM and a 350MHz slot-loading iMac with 320MHz RAM and a couple of G3 iBooks at 700MHz with 128MB and 256MB of RAM, respectively. Most of the time I can't tell any difference besides the one with 128MB being a little slower. They're both snappy and very usable. Before you threw that machine away you probably should have tried a few more things beyond repairing permissions, like forcing a system-wide prebinding update, clearing out some caches with a tool like OnyX, and if that didn't work an Archive & Reinstall of the OS (which is a lot simpler than I ever thought it would be). Granted I only have a year of experience now with 11 old and new Macs, but by now I can tell you with some certainty that Panther should have been perfectly good on that machine. I'm sure someone else is very happy now with their new PowerBook with 1GB RAM.
I was a Mac hater until last year when I experienced OS X Jaguar. Since then I've learned a lot and found that in general Macs have good hardware (there are exceptions, but not as many as on the PC side in my experience) and OS X is an outstanding OS that just keeps improving, getting faster and more stable. And the best part is that just by knowing a small set of rules you can in most cases keep a Mac running smoothly forever just by performing a few routine maintenance tasks, and if something does go horribly wrong it can be fixed much more easily than for instance a Windows computer. There simply is no comparison. I can still get into the guts of my Linux laptop at home more easily than I can on OS X, but the hardware quality and ease of use of OS X more than make up the difference. As soon as I can afford a Mac laptop I won't be paying much attention to Linux for a while.
Your average 7200 RPM hard drive can only spit out a sustained bandwidth of about 20MB/sec
1998 called and they want their hard drives back!
(Seriously, the Seagate Barracuda line of 7200rpm disks, the most common 7200rpm drive on the planet, now does 90MB/sec streaming I/O (outer zone), drops to around 50MB/sec at the inner zone. Even the previous generation would take you up to 65MB/sec. And these disks are *damn cheap*.)
professionally manufactured dude they're made in Taiwan by Foxconn, the same shitheads who bring you $50 pentium 4 motherboards. G5s, like almost all apple products in the last 5 or 10 years, are NOT professionally manufacturered. That is ancient history, if you want a professionally manufactured system, you have to buy something like an HP UNIX workstation these days.
neither will be good at playing high-res mpeg4 movies, for instance.
My P3-500 plays every divx and xvid I have thrown at it. Maybe it's just the old MAC who can't play mpgeg4?
To bad the mac sounds like a 747 taking off. The only person unfortunate enough to have a mac at work had to buy a silencer case for $300 and stuff the "dimmer" in.
"GO FUCK YOURSELF"
Exactly my reasoning. Also: 7 I can be more sure the manufacturer doesn't put in un-removeable backdoors if I'm the manufacturer
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
This might have been a possibility, except not only was the OS reinstalled more than once, I've seen the exact same behaviour on a whole range of Macs, from iMacs to dual CPU G4s.
After having this discussion numerous times, I have come to the conclusion that the average Mac user and I have vastly different ideas of what constitutes "responsive". IME, anything short of a 1Ghz+ G4 is required to get OS X even *close* to usable.
I didn't throw the machine, I sold it (and lost a lot of money because it was just after the first big price drop that the G4 PBs had).
I was a Mac hater until last year when I experienced OS X Jaguar.
I've liked and used OS X since the public beta. It's very nice to use, just frustratingly slow.
That's totally bizarre. I sympathize with you. But I also have experience with a whole range of Macs, from 350MHz to my dual G4 867 (which is I think the slowest dual CPU G4). The only slowdowns I've seen came from the one iBook that only has 128MB of memory. Its identical twin with 256MB is definitely more responsive.
;)
I can't imagine where your expectations for responsiveness come from if Panther doesn't meet them. My recent experience with XP on brand spanking new computers showed me it isn't any more responsive than OS X, and usually less. But I did boot up BeOS Max on an older PC the other day and was depressed for hours afterward after being reminded of how responsive it was compared to anything else. It seems to react before you can finish telling it what to do. You wouldn't happen to be a fellow BeOS refugee, would you?
Personally I'm still looking forward to Linux improving enough on the desktop to rival OS X, but I don't see that coming for another couple of years. Otherwise even if OS X was slow for me I would still prefer it over the biggest security hole known to man (XP). The one caveat is the Mac is still a mysterious beast in some ways, and I'd prefer to know what's going on under the hood.
I'm curious now as to what does meet your expectations for responsiveness. Surely not XP.
I started having the usual logic board problems with my 900 G3 iBook: flaky video, then no video. So I called up Apple and they Airborned me a box. I sent if off on a Tuesday, and get it back on Friday. I'm thinking, "hot damn, Apple is awesome, they have just made an evangelist out of me" as I open the package. Problem was, they sent me the wrong iBook. I live in North Dakota, and they sent me a school's laptop from Main. And it wasn't an upgrade, either; I had the maxed out 12" model, whereas they had the bare-bones configuration, except for the addition of an Airport card. I called Apple, and I called the school in Main (their number was engraved on the bottom), and I had mine back on Monday.