The glut of fiber tends to be more in the metro space. I really don't see the middle of Iowa with a ton of fiber. What this does is give the opportunity for metro buildouts. It's going to be the battle of the cities verus the towns all over again.
Personally, I can't wait to have my own 100mb connection to the net.
And if you or anyone else read the article, it states that the information is worth $138k per hour. So I really don't think that the licensing fees, nor the hardware requirements are much more than a pimple on someones ass.
What I find funny is that the dweeb who keeps talking about MySQL on his 486. Hell, I wouldn't trust MySQL with 600 gigs of data. At least with MS, I can pay for the ability to have someone's head on the line. What do I get with MySQL?
Cost of ownership is an issue for every corporation. However, if you believe in the TPC principal, I do believe that MS generally wins. Now if you believe in reality, then MS probably still wins. What would the cost be for some Sun E10000's with 8gb of RAM and a bunch of CPU's, clustered? Hmm. Probably 5x the cost of a Compaq 8 way box. Now we won't even get into the cost comparison of Oracle versus MS SQL Server. So from my quick math, (no relationship to fuzzy math) I would say that SQL Server with Win2k Datacenter on Compaq boxes wins.
The problem with Nortel, Cisco, Sycamore, Ciena, ONI, Sorrento, etc. has nothing to do with the Telcos core. It has to do with the Telco's inability to close the last mile. The cost to deploy a Cisco 15454 which does OC48 to gig E is 65,000. Now that's a tad expensive to deploy at a homeowner. Hmm, at $50 per month, that box will be paid off by my great-great grandchildren. The problem is two fold. Getting fiber to the final point and the cost to get the gigE connection. If GigE Modems per se, ala Cable modems where $200 and we had fiber to most homes, do you really think we would have an issue with bandwidth under utilization?
The reality, in my opinion, is that the Cisco/Lucent/Alcatel/Nortels of the world are hosed. They have based all of their equipment to handle the Telcos. Every piece of their equipment is built to do Ethernet to Sonet conversion. That costs money. The crap that you hear from them is that without Sonet you have no protection. Well, I guess they don't know squat about ethernet. Ethernet was built with collission in mind. If we drop a packet it will resend it! With Sonet, you, in theory never have to worry about that. If they built their equipment to do just pure ethernet then they would be fine. Well, guess what, they do and their called switches! To put pricing in perspective: Cisco has just priced out their OC-192 blade for their GSR line of routers. The routers start @ 250k, so these are the big boys. The blade is 250k in itself. OC-192 in essence is 10 gigabit. Hmm, last time I checked, if I was a ultra cheap bastard, I could get gigabit ports (fiber) for under $300. So give me ten and let them aggregate! There are also more issues in doing Sonet conversion to Ethernet. OC 48 is 2.5 gigabit. OC 12 is 622. So if they want a gig, they have to burn an OC 48. So they effectively lose about 60% of the utilization of the pipe!
The computer people of the world need to force the telcos of the world to work in something other than a 64k, ds0 channel. Ethernet has allways worked in a base 10. Why? Because we like easy math:) The telcos have tried to force data into a system that was built for voice to voice communications, not computer to computer communication.
dave
PS. This was typed as I started to fall asleep, so don't mod me down because of typos or lack of sleep:)
MPLS is a joke. It, in my opinion, is nothing more than a marketing ploy by the router manufacturers. They are trying to hype providers into running it as a source for revenue by offering higher priority on packets. Well, just think if 90% of the customers are running MPLS, then all of the packets are higher priority! Hmm, I guess we are back to square one of being clogged up.
MPLS has some great features for VPN's though that are nice. But with MPLS outside of your core, you are hosed. The next router has to be able to handle the MPLS tag.
An interesting side note would be if, the net was built with switches instead of routers, we would have no need for mpls! Layer 3 is a great place to handle packets. The problem that the net has is that there is no true connect. You have ATM cells to worry about, you have Frame PVC's to worry about. If everything was Ethernet instead of Telco forced standards then the net would scream!
I would love to try that test. Find the magazine. When I got my cables, I borrowed them from the dealer before I bought them. They let me take them home to listen to them. The reality is that they did sound completely different to my ear. I would make the same suggestion to you that I have others. Take a disc of whatever you listen to to a high end audio shop, sit down and listen.
My musical tastes are somewhat extreme. Currently, winamp is playing Armin Van Buuren trance music for me. But when I test a sound system I bring Trance, Classical (generally Bach), Basia, Ottmar Liebert, some HipHop to test the lows (even though I don't listen to it.) and some other stuff that I have in the car at the time.
Most people tend to think that the best test is to see how good it sounds cranked. That's wrong. The best test is how clear it sounds at a comfortable decibel. You want clarity, not distortion.
Actually speaker wire is not low tech at all. It's very high tech. It's just a layer one app:) (I had to through an OSI model reference somewhere.)
Here is a link to MIT cables website. You should read more about it. Cables are very high tech and make a difference. In fact there is a big difference in all cables, whether they are scsi, speaker, video or jumper.
I purchased this setup pre-mp3's. And of course they do sound much better. I have tons of puter equipment as well.
For fun, burn a few songs that you like. Go to a high end audio store. Sit down and listen to them. You will be amazed at what you hear. There is a difference.
Do you have any more info on this? Their site is lacking info. I have relatives in that neck of the woods and it would be nice to get a server or two there:)
Let's go back a little more than a hundred years. Did we need cars when we had trains? Did we need planes when we had cars later on?
Life, as we know it, is just like puters. They all basically do the same thing. The only thing that we pay more for is speed and storage.
There will allways be a purpose for it. We may not know what it is at this time. But if you were to ask someone 20 years ago if there was a need for a fax machine that would have said, nope, mail works fine for me.
I was waiting for someone to bring up electrostatics. As a proud owner of Martin Logan electrostatics, I can tell you there is a definate difference. My speakers, which cost me 10k for the set, plus 3k for the cables toast a bunch of other speakers. In fact, the only speakers that I have heard that come close are 30k and they were driven by Krell's and up.
As to attesting to spending money, I have probably put in close to 45k into my system. Do I like it? Hell ya. Is it the best that there is? Nope. Am I satisfied? Sure. Would I do it again? Dunno. Is it addictive? Yes, it is very addictive.
Someone posted earlier that the best system is the system that you can afford and test out the sound. I completely agree with it. I have done that and am quite satisfied with my choice. I would like to change some things out now, but doubt that I will. I do want to upgrade my Martin Logans though:)
The scary thing is that this bike really isn't that impressive. Other than the fact that it runs using a helicopter engine and that it's basically a jet below your nuts, the performance isn't that good.
Now, coming from my point of view, and experience, people do not realize how fast motorcycles really are. You can go down to the local Suzuki dealership, hand them 11,000 and get a bike that will do 190-195 out of the box. And by the way, it will do under 10 second 1/4 miles.
There are people that have bikes that do close to 225-230 top end. My bike, with my fat butt on it, has been radared at 215. I spent a lot less than 250k! I have about 30k invested in mine.
Now to the true topic at hand. What and the hell does this have to do with Slashdot? There are some serious idiots here that are making up crap stating that this bike could be used to pick up hostages. Hmm, let's see, it only has a room for one person on the bike, so is this a trade? Give you the motorcycle operator and replace them with the hostage? Also, has anyone figured out how long of a road you need to do 200+mph on a road for a minute? In that minute you cover around 3.5 miles. Anyone know of a road straight enough or pothole free enough to maintain that speed?
Topics like this make me wonder if the intellect of the Slashdot editors and readers is really anything greater than grammer school children.
I have no problem with where Plesk puts it's files. From an admin standpoint it's easier for me. I create a partition that mounts/usr/local/plesk. Now I can pretty much do as I please when I want. I know where all their data is, instead of trying to figure out where what app's conf files are.
I am a plesk user as well. I have used their product for about a year now. The support issues that were brought up are true. About 20 days after we put up a box running plesk it was hacked into. This box was our production box at that point and it was critical. They didn't have to help us, but they did. They got the box back to functional while we got another one up and running in its place.
Now the bad news about Plesk is that if you wish to move OS's, forget it. Their installer basically installs everything for you, Apache,MySql,PHP,Frontpage Extensions, SSL, Qmail,etc. But if you want to move from OS to OS, you are in for a nightmare. There are no triggers to recreate DNS entries in a domain, there are no procedures to call to generate email accounts for names of people in a domain.
From my standpoint, it was well worth the $550 that they wanted for it. I would highly recommend it if you are an admin that doesn't want to spend your day adding email accounts, setting up password protected directories, etc. Now, if they could get Analog and a Web Based Email reader then it would be a complete package!
Isn't it interesting to see how ignorant the majority of slashdot users/readers really are? Damn, if it doesn't say Linux or Open Source, then they believe it sucks. This is very typical closed mindedness that is what the OSS model is supposed to be against.
Let's review this phoney slash statement for what it is, phoney.
When is FreeBSD 5.0 coming out? Well, according to the freebsd site, that would be 3rd Quarter 2001. Hmm, and whend did this article state that it's being moved over? By the end of the month.
Now, who owns Slashdot? A company whose stock symbol is LNUX. Now, I wonder if they are going to change it to FBSD? Maybe they could be called VA BSD.
Oh well, I just am amazed at how gullable the average SlashDotter is.
Actually there is a lot more than the infamous 2 registry settings difference between NT4/Server.
Yes, there is the client license stuff, but there are all the ancillary files and features that are different. The quickest thing to point out is that NT Server supported Services for Machintosh, NT Workstation didn't.
I got some certs from Equifax. They were under a 100 for them and they state that they do checks. However, they do not!
I registered a cert for a company that did not exisit at the time. They wanted all of this supposed information to verify, yet I filled out a form, which included my Credit Card number and voila, 15 seconds later in my mailbox is the cert keys.
Don't believe the hype and bullshit that they do checkups,etc.
It is a pseudo monolopoly and it is the cost of doing business.
A case on my computer. hmmm. Well I still use the skeleton of it I guess, but I don't think the side panels have been on for a few months. Of coarse, in a dorm with poor ventalation and cramped areas, I don't need to move it much and need whatever airflow to the cpu I can get.
Actually, you are better off with the covers on. I did a simple test once where I went and got a probe thermometer from radio crap. I dropped it in the case with the covers off, then with the covers on. The covers, with decent fan, systems will drop the temperature drastically. This was on a case with 8 hard drives in it and it dropped it 20 degrees. I am sure some of the physics majors can give us the reason why the case covers help the airflow and the formulas to prove it:)
This reminds me of an old Barney Miller episode when I was younger. An inventor, invented a battery that would last for 10 years at full use. It would revolutionize the disposable battery market. The battery companies wanted the guy killed.
Do you actually think, Seagate, IBM, Quantum/Maxtor, Hitachi, Fujitsu each who has invested billions in hard drives would like to see a product like this come out? Forget the drive companies, imagine the tape companies as well. There would be no need to back up to tape, because the media is so cheap and just replicate it.
Personally, I would love to have one! Just think of all the Pron and l33t warez I could store:)
dave
Most of the supermicro boards do have Ethernet on board. In fact some of their models even have dual ethernet! They also have slanted DIMM Sockets.
dave
Sorry to burst your bubble, but ISA has been around since the advent of the PC. Granted this maybe older than the average/.er, but I believe that would in 1982. It went to 16 bit from 8 bit with the advent of the IBM AT in 1984.
Wow, I find that hard to believe. I have used Supermicro Boards for about 9 years now. I have probably sold/used around 200 of them in that time frame. Only once did I have a DOA and all the other boards met the garbage can before they were not functional.
I have had nothing but positive things to say about Supermicro. Their boards may not be the fastest, but I haven't seem them be flaky or never work. Currently, I have about 15 or so in place and being used.
Now if you want to see flaky and finicky boards let's talk about Intel motherboards!
dave
That comment would hold water if there were security holes.
Anyone that has used Qmail or any other product from Bernstein knows that there are no security holes. If there were, people would have collected on the rewards.
People need to get off of the Linux/GPL is god bandwagon. Remember it's just software, not a religion.
dave
Because the VC][+ has never been hacked cleanly.
Everyone left the BUD (Big Ugly Dish) when the little dishes came out and were easily hacked.
There is also the reason that with the BUD you can only watch a channel that is on that bird on multiple TV's. The little dish solved that issue.
dave
Slashdot Mirror
The glut of fiber tends to be more in the metro space. I really don't see the middle of Iowa with a ton of fiber. What this does is give the opportunity for metro buildouts. It's going to be the battle of the cities verus the towns all over again.
Personally, I can't wait to have my own 100mb connection to the net.
dave
Seeing that you are serious about this . . .
Rackmountnet.com
These guys make some nice cases!
BTW, the case with dual power supplies is close to $1100.
I am looking at building one of these boxes with all 100 gig drives, running FreeBSD as an NFS server.
the Apex digital TV model come out!
dave
And if you or anyone else read the article, it states that the information is worth $138k per hour. So I really don't think that the licensing fees, nor the hardware requirements are much more than a pimple on someones ass.
What I find funny is that the dweeb who keeps talking about MySQL on his 486. Hell, I wouldn't trust MySQL with 600 gigs of data. At least with MS, I can pay for the ability to have someone's head on the line. What do I get with MySQL?
Cost of ownership is an issue for every corporation. However, if you believe in the TPC principal, I do believe that MS generally wins. Now if you believe in reality, then MS probably still wins. What would the cost be for some Sun E10000's with 8gb of RAM and a bunch of CPU's, clustered? Hmm. Probably 5x the cost of a Compaq 8 way box. Now we won't even get into the cost comparison of Oracle versus MS SQL Server. So from my quick math, (no relationship to fuzzy math) I would say that SQL Server with Win2k Datacenter on Compaq boxes wins.
dave
The problem with Nortel, Cisco, Sycamore, Ciena, ONI, Sorrento, etc. has nothing to do with the Telcos core. It has to do with the Telco's inability to close the last mile. The cost to deploy a Cisco 15454 which does OC48 to gig E is 65,000. Now that's a tad expensive to deploy at a homeowner. Hmm, at $50 per month, that box will be paid off by my great-great grandchildren. The problem is two fold. Getting fiber to the final point and the cost to get the gigE connection. If GigE Modems per se, ala Cable modems where $200 and we had fiber to most homes, do you really think we would have an issue with bandwidth under utilization?
:) The telcos have tried to force data into a system that was built for voice to voice communications, not computer to computer communication.
:)
The reality, in my opinion, is that the Cisco/Lucent/Alcatel/Nortels of the world are hosed. They have based all of their equipment to handle the Telcos. Every piece of their equipment is built to do Ethernet to Sonet conversion. That costs money. The crap that you hear from them is that without Sonet you have no protection. Well, I guess they don't know squat about ethernet. Ethernet was built with collission in mind. If we drop a packet it will resend it! With Sonet, you, in theory never have to worry about that. If they built their equipment to do just pure ethernet then they would be fine. Well, guess what, they do and their called switches! To put pricing in perspective: Cisco has just priced out their OC-192 blade for their GSR line of routers. The routers start @ 250k, so these are the big boys. The blade is 250k in itself. OC-192 in essence is 10 gigabit. Hmm, last time I checked, if I was a ultra cheap bastard, I could get gigabit ports (fiber) for under $300. So give me ten and let them aggregate! There are also more issues in doing Sonet conversion to Ethernet. OC 48 is 2.5 gigabit. OC 12 is 622. So if they want a gig, they have to burn an OC 48. So they effectively lose about 60% of the utilization of the pipe!
The computer people of the world need to force the telcos of the world to work in something other than a 64k, ds0 channel. Ethernet has allways worked in a base 10. Why? Because we like easy math
dave
PS. This was typed as I started to fall asleep, so don't mod me down because of typos or lack of sleep
MPLS is a joke. It, in my opinion, is nothing more than a marketing ploy by the router manufacturers. They are trying to hype providers into running it as a source for revenue by offering higher priority on packets. Well, just think if 90% of the customers are running MPLS, then all of the packets are higher priority! Hmm, I guess we are back to square one of being clogged up.
MPLS has some great features for VPN's though that are nice. But with MPLS outside of your core, you are hosed. The next router has to be able to handle the MPLS tag.
An interesting side note would be if, the net was built with switches instead of routers, we would have no need for mpls! Layer 3 is a great place to handle packets. The problem that the net has is that there is no true connect. You have ATM cells to worry about, you have Frame PVC's to worry about. If everything was Ethernet instead of Telco forced standards then the net would scream!
Ok, I am off my soapbox.
dave
I would love to try that test. Find the magazine. When I got my cables, I borrowed them from the dealer before I bought them. They let me take them home to listen to them. The reality is that they did sound completely different to my ear. I would make the same suggestion to you that I have others. Take a disc of whatever you listen to to a high end audio shop, sit down and listen.
My musical tastes are somewhat extreme. Currently, winamp is playing Armin Van Buuren trance music for me. But when I test a sound system I bring Trance, Classical (generally Bach), Basia, Ottmar Liebert, some HipHop to test the lows (even though I don't listen to it.) and some other stuff that I have in the car at the time.
Most people tend to think that the best test is to see how good it sounds cranked. That's wrong. The best test is how clear it sounds at a comfortable decibel. You want clarity, not distortion.
dave
Actually speaker wire is not low tech at all. It's very high tech. It's just a layer one app :) (I had to through an OSI model reference somewhere.)
Here is a link to MIT cables website. You should read more about it. Cables are very high tech and make a difference. In fact there is a big difference in all cables, whether they are scsi, speaker, video or jumper.
dave
I purchased this setup pre-mp3's. And of course they do sound much better. I have tons of puter equipment as well.
For fun, burn a few songs that you like. Go to a high end audio store. Sit down and listen to them. You will be amazed at what you hear. There is a difference.
dave
Do you have any more info on this? Their site is lacking info. I have relatives in that neck of the woods and it would be nice to get a server or two there :)
Here is an analogy.
.2 worth on the subject.
Let's go back a little more than a hundred years. Did we need cars when we had trains? Did we need planes when we had cars later on?
Life, as we know it, is just like puters. They all basically do the same thing. The only thing that we pay more for is speed and storage.
There will allways be a purpose for it. We may not know what it is at this time. But if you were to ask someone 20 years ago if there was a need for a fax machine that would have said, nope, mail works fine for me.
That is my
dave
I was waiting for someone to bring up electrostatics. As a proud owner of Martin Logan electrostatics, I can tell you there is a definate difference. My speakers, which cost me 10k for the set, plus 3k for the cables toast a bunch of other speakers. In fact, the only speakers that I have heard that come close are 30k and they were driven by Krell's and up.
:)
As to attesting to spending money, I have probably put in close to 45k into my system. Do I like it? Hell ya. Is it the best that there is? Nope. Am I satisfied? Sure. Would I do it again? Dunno. Is it addictive? Yes, it is very addictive.
Someone posted earlier that the best system is the system that you can afford and test out the sound. I completely agree with it. I have done that and am quite satisfied with my choice. I would like to change some things out now, but doubt that I will. I do want to upgrade my Martin Logans though
dave
The scary thing is that this bike really isn't that impressive. Other than the fact that it runs using a helicopter engine and that it's basically a jet below your nuts, the performance isn't that good.
Now, coming from my point of view, and experience, people do not realize how fast motorcycles really are. You can go down to the local Suzuki dealership, hand them 11,000 and get a bike that will do 190-195 out of the box. And by the way, it will do under 10 second 1/4 miles.
There are people that have bikes that do close to 225-230 top end. My bike, with my fat butt on it, has been radared at 215. I spent a lot less than 250k! I have about 30k invested in mine.
Now to the true topic at hand. What and the hell does this have to do with Slashdot? There are some serious idiots here that are making up crap stating that this bike could be used to pick up hostages. Hmm, let's see, it only has a room for one person on the bike, so is this a trade? Give you the motorcycle operator and replace them with the hostage? Also, has anyone figured out how long of a road you need to do 200+mph on a road for a minute? In that minute you cover around 3.5 miles. Anyone know of a road straight enough or pothole free enough to maintain that speed?
Topics like this make me wonder if the intellect of the Slashdot editors and readers is really anything greater than grammer school children.
Dave
I have no problem with where Plesk puts it's files. From an admin standpoint it's easier for me. I create a partition that mounts /usr/local/plesk. Now I can pretty much do as I please when I want. I know where all their data is, instead of trying to figure out where what app's conf files are.
Dave
I am a plesk user as well. I have used their product for about a year now. The support issues that were brought up are true. About 20 days after we put up a box running plesk it was hacked into. This box was our production box at that point and it was critical. They didn't have to help us, but they did. They got the box back to functional while we got another one up and running in its place.
Now the bad news about Plesk is that if you wish to move OS's, forget it. Their installer basically installs everything for you, Apache,MySql,PHP,Frontpage Extensions, SSL, Qmail,etc. But if you want to move from OS to OS, you are in for a nightmare. There are no triggers to recreate DNS entries in a domain, there are no procedures to call to generate email accounts for names of people in a domain.
From my standpoint, it was well worth the $550 that they wanted for it. I would highly recommend it if you are an admin that doesn't want to spend your day adding email accounts, setting up password protected directories, etc. Now, if they could get Analog and a Web Based Email reader then it would be a complete package!
Dave
Isn't it interesting to see how ignorant the majority of slashdot users/readers really are? Damn, if it doesn't say Linux or Open Source, then they believe it sucks. This is very typical closed mindedness that is what the OSS model is supposed to be against.
Let's review this phoney slash statement for what it is, phoney.
When is FreeBSD 5.0 coming out? Well, according to the freebsd site, that would be 3rd Quarter 2001. Hmm, and whend did this article state that it's being moved over? By the end of the month.
Now, who owns Slashdot? A company whose stock symbol is LNUX. Now, I wonder if they are going to change it to FBSD? Maybe they could be called VA BSD.
Oh well, I just am amazed at how gullable the average SlashDotter is.
dave
Actually there is a lot more than the infamous 2 registry settings difference between NT4/Server.
.2 worth.
Yes, there is the client license stuff, but there are all the ancillary files and features that are different. The quickest thing to point out is that NT Server supported Services for Machintosh, NT Workstation didn't.
My
dave
Not even close.
I got some certs from Equifax. They were under a 100 for them and they state that they do checks. However, they do not!
I registered a cert for a company that did not exisit at the time. They wanted all of this supposed information to verify, yet I filled out a form, which included my Credit Card number and voila, 15 seconds later in my mailbox is the cert keys.
Don't believe the hype and bullshit that they do checkups,etc.
It is a pseudo monolopoly and it is the cost of doing business.
dave
A case on my computer. hmmm. Well I still use the skeleton of it I guess, but I don't think the side panels have been on for a few months. Of coarse, in a dorm with poor ventalation and cramped areas, I don't need to move it much and need whatever airflow to the cpu I can get. :)
Actually, you are better off with the covers on. I did a simple test once where I went and got a probe thermometer from radio crap. I dropped it in the case with the covers off, then with the covers on. The covers, with decent fan, systems will drop the temperature drastically. This was on a case with 8 hard drives in it and it dropped it 20 degrees.
I am sure some of the physics majors can give us the reason why the case covers help the airflow and the formulas to prove it
This reminds me of an old Barney Miller episode when I was younger. An inventor, invented a battery that would last for 10 years at full use. It would revolutionize the disposable battery market. The battery companies wanted the guy killed.
:)
Do you actually think, Seagate, IBM, Quantum/Maxtor, Hitachi, Fujitsu each who has invested billions in hard drives would like to see a product like this come out? Forget the drive companies, imagine the tape companies as well. There would be no need to back up to tape, because the media is so cheap and just replicate it.
Personally, I would love to have one! Just think of all the Pron and l33t warez I could store
dave
Most of the supermicro boards do have Ethernet on board. In fact some of their models even have dual ethernet! They also have slanted DIMM Sockets.
dave
Sorry to burst your bubble, but ISA has been around since the advent of the PC. Granted this maybe older than the average /.er, but I believe that would in 1982. It went to 16 bit from 8 bit with the advent of the IBM AT in 1984.
Damn, I am showing my age!
dave
Wow, I find that hard to believe. I have used Supermicro Boards for about 9 years now. I have probably sold/used around 200 of them in that time frame. Only once did I have a DOA and all the other boards met the garbage can before they were not functional.
I have had nothing but positive things to say about Supermicro. Their boards may not be the fastest, but I haven't seem them be flaky or never work. Currently, I have about 15 or so in place and being used.
Now if you want to see flaky and finicky boards let's talk about Intel motherboards!
dave
That comment would hold water if there were security holes. Anyone that has used Qmail or any other product from Bernstein knows that there are no security holes. If there were, people would have collected on the rewards. People need to get off of the Linux/GPL is god bandwagon. Remember it's just software, not a religion. dave
Because the VC][+ has never been hacked cleanly. Everyone left the BUD (Big Ugly Dish) when the little dishes came out and were easily hacked. There is also the reason that with the BUD you can only watch a channel that is on that bird on multiple TV's. The little dish solved that issue. dave