Now if Napster would file a suit like this one, things would start to look up. Up till now, the RIAA has been having all of the fun, it's time for the little guy to get in a lick or two. EVen if mp3.com loses, this should generate some much-needed publicity.
I also hope that the Johansen family files suit against the MPAA. Wouldn't that be a great thing?:)
You really should learn the full details before you preach to me that "it is breaking the law by pirating or copying."
It is NOT breaking the law to copy a movie for your own private use. It IS breaking the law to distribute said copy.
But you have bought into the lie too, spread by the press (case in point: the LA Times article in question!) This is not about piracy. This is about several freedoms:
The freedom to watch a movie you have bought and paid for any way you wish
The freedom to pry into software you have bought and paid for and learn how it works
The freedom to link to a website with a copy of the DeCSS software
I have to agree with many of the people above. We do need to keep repeating this, the word needs to get out.... {sigh}
BTW, I dual boot Win98 and Linux too. I boot Win98 for games, Linux for anything else. I also use a Microsoft Intellimouse, a very nice mouse, imho. I am not totally anti-MS, just very tired of having to support their OS over the years.
I would add that, to me, it's much like buying a book. If you want to OCR the text into your computer and read it with a web browser, that is your right - as long as you do not distribute it.
The DVDCCA wants to control HOW I watch a DVD, and that is going too far.
Rob, we need to start a "Window's Whiners" section on Slashdot. Like YRO and AskSlashdot, this would be a separate forum just for the following types of posts:
Windows' Worshippers who loathe and detest Linux/*BSD/etc
A place to post whines and flames about how the Evil Open Source Empire is picking on poor defenseless Microsoft
A place where all the Microsofties with no essential sense of humor (seems to be most of them, if the posts below are any indication) can whine and console each other
would also be a good place where they can whine how topic X is NOT "News for Nerds/Stuff That Matters", instead of leaving Slashdot to find a more Windows-friendly forum
last but not least, they can pat each other on the back and tell each other this whole "Open Source thing" is just a flash in the pan, which will be over soon
You are not imagining things. Every time I see the "Bill Gates of Borg" icon, I know I will see a flood of pro-MS FUD and anti-Linux/Open Source diatribes posted in the discussion within. You will also note many of them are bitter, angry posts about how "unfair" poor Microsoft is treated on Slashdot. Utterly ridiculous, considering that for years nearly all of the "mainstream" computer/internet press acted like they were part of the MS PR Dept. I've always been glad that Slashdot was here, to deflate some of that - not just from MS, but from any large company.
Is MS behind it somehow? Nahhh, I don't think so. If word got out that they were ordering employees to post on Slashdot, it would be more embarassment that they really don't want right now.
It seems to me these are just people who genuinely like Microsoft/Windows, and feel much like missionaries among the Heathen Open-Source savages here on Slashdot.;-)
Moderation? I've seen a lot of on-topic posts recently marked "Troll" or "Flamebait", which tells me we are getting some really bad moderators. Hopefully, M2 will weed some of them out.
This is the most insightful comment I've seen on this whole sorry matter!
Yes, you nailed it. They could care less about Joe Hacker downloading and compiling decss source. They want to stop RedHat/Mandrake/Suse from distributing FREE Linux DVD players.
I'm sure many of you have noticed that the mainstream media's take on the whole DVDCCA thing is usually not more than a listing of the DVDCCA's complaints. Someone reading this, and not knowing what is really going on, will just think "Oh well, another one of those evil hackers getting what they deserve." Everyone reading Slasjdot should write polite letters to the editor(s) of any site carrying this story, and correct them. Get our point of view out there. I've noticed, for example, that Cnet's news.com seems to be more open to this sort of thing than most. They need to know this is not about piracy or copying movies. This is about the freedom to find out how a piece of software works.
But if you do write, please do not flame the editors. That does more harm than not writing at all.
Thanks Jeff! Glad to know you guys DO care enough to read the comments and occasionally post (but not often enough!)
Congrats to the Happy Couple.
As for the earlier poster above...
Why don't all you whiners go somewhere else and start your own "News for Nerds/Stuff That Matters" site? I happen to like Slashdot just fine the way it is, and I think that Rob/Jeff/et al are doing a pretty damn good job keeping it up with the tremendous growth in popularity of Slashdot over the past year. Unfortunately, with that growth comes an influx of children, Microsoft Apologists, Linux-Haters, and other net-dreck. I guess that's the breaks though.
I wish I had a fscking choice! The company I work for (a major Cable/Communications company employing nearly 20,000 people) is preparing to "upgrade" every single computer to Win 2000 and Office 2000. It makes me physically ill to even think about it. Microsoft's reps are pushing it to the hilt, too. Offering any discount necessary to "lock in" all of us to Win2000. Unfortunately, I am in no position to push for an Open Source alternative to this mess.:(
...why so many people expend the time and energy to post so many angry replies here every time Jon Katz does an article.
I mean, you can turn Katz off completely if you wish, it's in the Preferences. You don't even have to know he exists!
But no, it seems that some folks on here would rather get rid of Katz completely, and deny him any right to post on Slashdot. I don't always agree with what he has to say, but I never get angry over it. Perhaps some people are imbibing too much caffeine?;)
I wouldn't say "obscurity of setup" perhaps. Would be much better if even ONE, yes just 1, PHB learned from this incident, and hired an admin who knew what he/she/it was doing. I have seen a lot of "admins" passing themselves off as professionals in the IT field, when they knew next to nothing about how any of it worked. And most of them were NT admins. I am not bashing NT admins as a whole, but it is much easier to pass yourself off as a Professional with NT than with Linux, IMHO.
Compare and contrast Rob Malda to such. If he had not taken the time to learn how it all works, would we not see "Y0u are 0wn3D!" on the/. homepage quite frequently?:)
Any moron can set up an E-Commerce site with IIS, whereas to set up PHP/MySQL/Apache takes a little bit more understanding and working knowledge of the Internet. You tend to pay more attention to security when you have to learn HOW it all works, rather then point-and-click your way online.
I was very amused by this article. I warned (and warned, and warned...) my former employers of such possibilities, yet they went the MS SQL route anyway.
I think at the heart of this is the age-old debate: Open-Source/UNIX vs. Closed Source/NT/WinX. Before everyone starts flaming, or or yelling "MS basher!", let me explain... I've noticed that most *nix software ships with a very tight setup by default. You have to specifically enable things. You have to open those ports that you want opened. And your admin needs to have a clue. Now, with an MS solution, things are a bit different. Turn it on, click here, type in some info - and HEY! you've got an E-Commerce site up! And if you are not well-versed in security, and/or pretty clueless about the internet - you could be in big trouble, as the MSNBC article points out.
My point is, you don't have to know much about IT stuff to set up an E-Commerce site using this software. You don't have to know anything about security. And this leads to the sort of things we are seeing now. "Ease of use" on the desktop is just fine... but I think they have carried it a little too far on the server end.
I agree with many of the other posters though, this is not entirely Microsoft's fault. I think the blame should mostly fall on the PHB's hiring clueless admins.
I asked this question when Slashdot had the anti-trust lawyers on for an interview.
Here is the URL of the answers. Basically, they did not seem too worried this would happen.
Here is a snippet for those who don't want to return to the original article:
David Niemi responds: Breaking apart operating systems, apps, and online services (vertical divestiture) would do *a lot* of good. It is much easier to detect and prosecute price-fixing and collusion between separate companies than it is to detect internal conflicts of interest inside a single company. The different companies would then be required to separately reporting profit and loss to their shareholders, and it would be next to impossible for them to justify helping the other parts of the former Microsoft at their own expense (whereas today, that happens all the time).
I was a beta tester for Heroes III. I already owned a copy of the Windows version. I found that the maps were 100% compatible. Even maps I had created with the Map Editor that came with the Windows version. I don't remember if the Win version used Direct X or not, but the Linux version's graphics were great. You really couldn't tell any difference, IMHO.
Loki is adding a lot to the Linux world, and I really appreciate their work.
You might consider the fact that a large portion of Slashdot's community are using *BSD/Linux. Slashdot became a rallying point for the open source community, whether that was intended by Rob Malda or not. Also, most of the/. community are technically oriented (to say the least). They loathe MS products. I for one put up with a lot of additional work/suffering at my last job due to shoddy MS products. I consider the MS-bashing on/. to be a welcome balance from all the pro-MS hype you see everywhere else. So-called "news" sites simply echo MS PR verbatim. This is something I hope we will never see here. Additionally, after Judge Jackson's FOF, I noticed that/. was overrun with pro-MS posts and trolls, spreading FUD and starting flame wars. Slashdot's moderation system served us well there.
Instead of whining at Rob about poor Microsoft getting picked on, go start your own pro-Microsoft site, please!
Every article I have read about this makes me grind my teeth. The DeCSS is always referred to as either a "DVD Copy Program" or a "DVD Pirating Program". Never is any mention made of the project to bring DVD to Linux. We all come across as a bunch of evil pirates out to destroy the All-American Movie Industry.
Here is a suggestion to put the Slashdot Effect to good use: everyone write your favorite media outlets. Tell them what this is really about. This has nothing to do with piracy, it has everything to do about freedom. The same freedom that allows them to publish their websites and newspapers.
I think the purpose of this legal action is to frighten everyone into submission. I don't think the DVD Consortium knows what they have stepped into, however:)
I can't be at the courthouse, but I am there in spirit anyway!
I've used 3Com 905B's and DEC Tulips (the Netgear version) for several years. I found the Tulips to be somewhat better performing, and loads cheaper. Apparently you pay a lot for the 3Com name (2X or more the price of the Tulips).
CmdrTaco and/or Hemos could write an essay about life with an AIBO. I'm sure that between the two of you, there are plenty of amusing stories accumulated already...
A very good point. That raises another question though... If I were a stockholder in MS, and they split the company up, would I not receive equal shares in each company? Or would I choose one? How did they handle AT&T stockholders when it was broken up?
Many people seem to be considering the breakup of Microsoft into 2 or more separate companies as the most likely outcome of all this. However, would that really do us any good? Let's say you broke them up into an OS division and an APPS division. What is to stop the OS folks from sharing their secret API's with the APPS company? Would we not just be right back where we are now? What would all of you recommend as a solution that would allow MS to survive, but not as a predator that destroys all competition and stifles true innovation?
The original AOE was developed by Ensemble Studios, who were then bought by Microsoft. They still develop the game, but Microsoft handles the distribution/advertising/etc.
This is one of the few instances I have bought Microsoft products, it is worth it, IMHO.
Being a lover of strategy games, I find myself booting Windows often just to play Heroes III, or Age of Empires II. This is great news. I will definitely buy a copy.
Now, if they would only port AOE2. The question is, would Microsoft allow that to happen? (They own/distribute AOE)
Slashdot Mirror
Now if Napster would file a suit like this one, things would start to look up. Up till now, the RIAA has been having all of the fun, it's time for the little guy to get in a lick or two. EVen if mp3.com loses, this should generate some much-needed publicity.
:)
I also hope that the Johansen family files suit against the MPAA. Wouldn't that be a great thing?
It is NOT breaking the law to copy a movie for your own private use. It IS breaking the law to distribute said copy.
But you have bought into the lie too, spread by the press (case in point: the LA Times article in question!) This is not about piracy. This is about several freedoms:
I have to agree with many of the people above. We do need to keep repeating this, the word needs to get out.... {sigh}
BTW, I dual boot Win98 and Linux too. I boot Win98 for games, Linux for anything else. I also use a Microsoft Intellimouse, a very nice mouse, imho. I am not totally anti-MS, just very tired of having to support their OS over the years.
Ok Scott, you stole my reply! ;-)
I would add that, to me, it's much like buying a book. If you want to OCR the text into your computer and read it with a web browser, that is your right - as long as you do not distribute it.
The DVDCCA wants to control HOW I watch a DVD, and that is going too far.
This has nothing to do with piracy, and everything to do with control - control of how I watch a DVD, and what products I watch it on.
You seem to be believing the lie. Don't. I urge you to read every post in this thread, and see for yourself what I am talking about.
Here is my mirror of the DeCSS code. Where is yours?
You are not imagining things. Every time I see the "Bill Gates of Borg" icon, I know I will see a flood of pro-MS FUD and anti-Linux/Open Source diatribes posted in the discussion within. You will also note many of them are bitter, angry posts about how "unfair" poor Microsoft is treated on Slashdot. Utterly ridiculous, considering that for years nearly all of the "mainstream" computer/internet press acted like they were part of the MS PR Dept. I've always been glad that Slashdot was here, to deflate some of that - not just from MS, but from any large company.
;-)
Is MS behind it somehow? Nahhh, I don't think so. If word got out that they were ordering employees to post on Slashdot, it would be more embarassment that they really don't want right now.
It seems to me these are just people who genuinely like Microsoft/Windows, and feel much like missionaries among the Heathen Open-Source savages here on Slashdot.
Moderation? I've seen a lot of on-topic posts recently marked "Troll" or "Flamebait", which tells me we are getting some really bad moderators. Hopefully, M2 will weed some of them out.
This is the most insightful comment I've seen on this whole sorry matter!
Yes, you nailed it. They could care less about Joe Hacker downloading and compiling decss source. They want to stop RedHat/Mandrake/Suse from distributing FREE Linux DVD players.
As usual, it's all about money.
Everyone reading Slasjdot should write polite letters to the editor(s) of any site carrying this story, and correct them. Get our point of view out there. I've noticed, for example, that Cnet's news.com seems to be more open to this sort of thing than most.
They need to know this is not about piracy or copying movies. This is about the freedom to find out how a piece of software works.
But if you do write, please do not flame the editors. That does more harm than not writing at all.
Thanks Jeff! Glad to know you guys DO care enough to read the comments and occasionally post (but not often enough!)
Congrats to the Happy Couple.
As for the earlier poster above...
Why don't all you whiners go somewhere else and start your own "News for Nerds/Stuff That Matters" site? I happen to like Slashdot just fine the way it is, and I think that Rob/Jeff/et al are doing a pretty damn good job keeping it up with the tremendous growth in popularity of Slashdot over the past year.
Unfortunately, with that growth comes an influx of children, Microsoft Apologists, Linux-Haters, and other net-dreck. I guess that's the breaks though.
I wish I had a fscking choice! :(
The company I work for (a major Cable/Communications company employing nearly 20,000 people) is preparing to "upgrade" every single computer to Win 2000 and Office 2000. It makes me physically ill to even think about it. Microsoft's reps are pushing it to the hilt, too. Offering any discount necessary to "lock in" all of us to Win2000.
Unfortunately, I am in no position to push for an Open Source alternative to this mess.
...why so many people expend the time and energy to post so many angry replies here every time Jon Katz does an article.
;)
I mean, you can turn Katz off completely if you wish, it's in the Preferences. You don't even have to know he exists!
But no, it seems that some folks on here would rather get rid of Katz completely, and deny him any right to post on Slashdot. I don't always agree with what he has to say, but I never get angry over it.
Perhaps some people are imbibing too much caffeine?
Well said! I tried to say this earlier in the thread, but much less eloquently than yourself.
I wouldn't say "obscurity of setup" perhaps. Would be much better if even ONE, yes just 1, PHB learned from this incident, and hired an admin who knew what he/she/it was doing.
/. homepage quite frequently? :)
I have seen a lot of "admins" passing themselves off as professionals in the IT field, when they knew next to nothing about how any of it worked. And most of them were NT admins. I am not bashing NT admins as a whole, but it is much easier to pass yourself off as a Professional with NT than with Linux, IMHO.
Compare and contrast Rob Malda to such. If he had not taken the time to learn how it all works, would we not see "Y0u are 0wn3D!" on the
And you totally missed my point...
Any moron can set up an E-Commerce site with IIS, whereas to set up PHP/MySQL/Apache takes a little bit more understanding and working knowledge of the Internet.
You tend to pay more attention to security when you have to learn HOW it all works, rather then point-and-click your way online.
I was very amused by this article. I warned (and warned, and warned...) my former employers of such possibilities, yet they went the MS SQL route anyway.
I think at the heart of this is the age-old debate: Open-Source/UNIX vs. Closed Source/NT/WinX. Before everyone starts flaming, or or yelling "MS basher!", let me explain...
I've noticed that most *nix software ships with a very tight setup by default. You have to specifically enable things. You have to open those ports that you want opened. And your admin needs to have a clue.
Now, with an MS solution, things are a bit different. Turn it on, click here, type in some info - and HEY! you've got an E-Commerce site up! And if you are not well-versed in security, and/or pretty clueless about the internet - you could be in big trouble, as the MSNBC article points out.
My point is, you don't have to know much about IT stuff to set up an E-Commerce site using this software. You don't have to know anything about security. And this leads to the sort of things we are seeing now. "Ease of use" on the desktop is just fine... but I think they have carried it a little too far on the server end.
I agree with many of the other posters though, this is not entirely Microsoft's fault. I think the blame should mostly fall on the PHB's hiring clueless admins.
I asked this question when Slashdot had the anti-trust lawyers on for an interview.
Here is the URL of the answers. Basically, they did not seem too worried this would happen.
Here is a snippet for those who don't want to return to the original article:
David Niemi responds:
Breaking apart operating systems, apps, and online services (vertical divestiture) would do *a lot* of good. It is much easier to detect and prosecute price-fixing and collusion between separate companies than it is to detect internal conflicts of interest inside a single company. The different companies would then be required to separately reporting profit and loss to their shareholders, and it would be next to impossible for them to justify helping the other parts of the former Microsoft at their own expense (whereas today, that happens all the time).
I was a beta tester for Heroes III. I already owned a copy of the Windows version. I found that the maps were 100% compatible. Even maps I had created with the Map Editor that came with the Windows version. I don't remember if the Win version used Direct X or not, but the Linux version's graphics were great. You really couldn't tell any difference, IMHO.
Loki is adding a lot to the Linux world, and I really appreciate their work.
You might consider the fact that a large portion of Slashdot's community are using *BSD/Linux. Slashdot became a rallying point for the open source community, whether that was intended by Rob Malda or not. /. community are technically oriented (to say the least). They loathe MS products. I for one put up with a lot of additional work/suffering at my last job due to shoddy MS products. I consider the MS-bashing on /. to be a welcome balance from all the pro-MS hype you see everywhere else. So-called "news" sites simply echo MS PR verbatim. This is something I hope we will never see here. /. was overrun with pro-MS posts and trolls, spreading FUD and starting flame wars. Slashdot's moderation system served us well there.
Also, most of the
Additionally, after Judge Jackson's FOF, I noticed that
Instead of whining at Rob about poor Microsoft getting picked on, go start your own pro-Microsoft site, please!
Every article I have read about this makes me grind my teeth. The DeCSS is always referred to as either a "DVD Copy Program" or a "DVD Pirating Program". Never is any mention made of the project to bring DVD to Linux. We all come across as a bunch of evil pirates out to destroy the All-American Movie Industry.
Here is a suggestion to put the Slashdot Effect to good use: everyone write your favorite media outlets. Tell them what this is really about. This has nothing to do with piracy, it has everything to do about freedom. The same freedom that allows them to publish their websites and newspapers.
I think the purpose of this legal action is to frighten everyone into submission. I don't think the DVD Consortium knows what they have stepped into, however
I can't be at the courthouse, but I am there in spirit anyway!
I've used 3Com 905B's and DEC Tulips (the Netgear version) for several years. I found the Tulips to be somewhat better performing, and loads cheaper. Apparently you pay a lot for the 3Com name (2X or more the price of the Tulips).
CmdrTaco and/or Hemos could write an essay about life with an AIBO. I'm sure that between the two of you, there are plenty of amusing stories accumulated already...
A very good point. That raises another question though...
If I were a stockholder in MS, and they split the company up, would I not receive equal shares in each company? Or would I choose one? How did they handle AT&T stockholders when it was broken up?
Many people seem to be considering the breakup of Microsoft into 2 or more separate companies as the most likely outcome of all this. However, would that really do us any good? Let's say you broke them up into an OS division and an APPS division. What is to stop the OS folks from sharing their secret API's with the APPS company? Would we not just be right back where we are now? What would all of you recommend as a solution that would allow MS to survive, but not as a predator that destroys all competition and stifles true innovation?
The original AOE was developed by Ensemble Studios, who were then bought by Microsoft. They still develop the game, but Microsoft handles the distribution/advertising/etc.
This is one of the few instances I have bought Microsoft products, it is worth it, IMHO.
Being a lover of strategy games, I find myself booting Windows often just to play Heroes III, or Age of Empires II. This is great news. I will definitely buy a copy.
Now, if they would only port AOE2. The question is, would Microsoft allow that to happen? (They own/distribute AOE)