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Loki Porting Alpha Centauri, Sim City 3k and More
kato writes "Loki has just announced that it will be porting the following games to linux: Alpha Centauri, SimCity 3000, Soldier of Fortune, Interstate '82, and Heavy Gear II. Pre-ordering should begin soon at the standard places: Loki, Handeye, etc. No word on exactly when they'll be released, though. "
I really like SimCity 3000, and have been hoping for some time that it would be ported eventually. However, SC3k is a DirectX program. I have two questions:
1. How is Loki going to make a Linux version of a DirectX progam and
2. Will the Linux version be compatible (mapwise and interface-wise) with the Windows version?
Who am I?
Why am here?
Where is the chocolate?
What is your Slash Rating?
Games and porn drive hardware and software makers to make "better stuff". I look forward to the day I can reformat my win95 (which is used for games), because all the best games will be on Linux.
If I remember the Acorn/RiscOS version of simcity 2000 was map compatable with the windows version so i dont see why the 3000 linux version shouldn't work, after all, it is just info on the positions of builds and population data
Will this work in freeBSD? (Linux emulation is fine, but there are one or two things that don't run in linux emulation.)
Odds are it will run in freeBSD, and if so I'm gonnna have to buy simCity. One of the few games I even bother to play anymore, or at least last time I had a comptuer that would run it - the black and white orginial on a mac SE.
Accually I only asked this question is to make sure they test in freeBSD.
While haveing games in linux is a Good Thing, and it has a benifit for the community, it really doesn't help position linux for use as a buisiness client. What linux really needs is a commercial quality, stable(sorry wordperfect), and compatible office suite. Microsoft is not a likeley cantidate for porting office over to linux, but what about lotus, they have already released domino server, how about a complete office suite, notes client, and web browser that work and look good together. This is what linux needs to compete against the likes of NT. But, hey if I can use my system to play Simcity 3k instead of working, I'm all for it.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
I was very happy with the job they did on Heroes of Might and Magic III when we beta-tested that.
:)
(has anyone seen the Linux version in stores? I've seen Civ:CTP and Railroad Tycoon II in the box with the penguin on it
Keep up the good work, Loki! When I get a 3D card and a new computer, I'll have to see what new games you put out for us... (and if I can somehow run the PC Final Fantasy port(s)... Hrm. Time to load up Wine...)
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
This is really cool. I wonder how lucrative porting games to Linux is? I think that Loki are making some kind of deficit right now, but as they port more and more games, Linux users all over will lighten up to the fact that an OS can be stable AND fun! I for one have purchased RRT2, Quake 3 and CIV:CTP. If they release SC3K, that'll be an addition to my collection. Canadian buyers: I get my Linux games at http://www.canux.com. It's not a huge mega-site, but at least I pay canadian $$$.
So the real question is this: When will Loki go public? They are probably the single hottest Linux company out there in the sense that games are the only sure-bet out there today. People may buy databases at work, but for every database there's 50 employees who go home and play SimKillMyCo-Workers. And then they buy the expansion pack, sequal, cheat books, etc. If Loki can convince the gaming biz to let them do all of the ports, their profits may require a new set of units (the yottabuck may not be sufficient).
;-)
That leaves me to wonder when I'll be allowed to buy in. Either that, or are they hiring?
koffice looks extremely promising.
Well we have known about Heavy Gear2 and SOF but these new one's sound great! Guess Im gunna have to add them to my site. Anyone interested in helping me make webpages for these game check my site out and email me!
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
http://loki.linuxgames.com
I don't care about these. It is good that it's happening, but I need my Warcraft. If blizzard ports WC3, I'll be Linux forever.
Trollmastah is a valuable asset for those of us who surf at -1. Thank you, Trollmastah .
My oppinion on games under Linux is very simple.
Linux still needs some improvement to make it just as good for games as Windows or DOS.
Compare Windows/DOS with Linux
Windows/DOS :
Single user: no security problems, so coders have much more freedom in accessing hardware
Good libraries: I can tell you many bad things about Windows, but DirectX is a good library
Good hardware support: nuff' said
Linux (or any other unice)
Multi user: coders have less freedom because of kernel design which prohibits direct access to the hardware unless run as suid root.
Libraries: I've got to admit: mesa is getting better and better. It wouldn't be bad if we had mesa as standard for every game developed under Linux
Hardware support: Get's better and better (look at nvidea's fast driver support for it's latest card)
Looking at the differences: Linux is not far from it's goal as gaming platform. But do we really _need_ those games? I don't know for sure, but for as far as I know, most gamers still use Windows as their main platform, and I think they don't really see the need for changing to another os.
This is a replacement signature.
So I hear youi like Flavored Cream!.
Hey Butthead, Llama said Flavored Cream. He He
Trollmastah
and it beats out any of that crap MS puts out: Staroffice. See www.sun.com.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Could someone who has played Alpha Centauri please tell me if it is any good? I bought Civilisation : Call to Power on the strength of some online reviews but found it quite limited in long-term appeal. How does Alpha Centauri compare to Civ:CTP? Does it have the same massive slowdown during later stages of a game? (ie. when many cities, etc are built) Are the computer opponents predictable?
Any honest reviews would be gratefully received.
----- Documentation is worth it just to be able to answer all your mail with 'RTFM' - Alan Cox.
I work in a "multimedia" part of a bookstore here in the Netherlands (just for getting some extra money). We support Linux a lot and hence we sell about 6 different distributions, many documentation and also some games. What I've seen here so far: Transport Tycoon II, Civ, a 3D tactical game and some other (smaller) games.
This is a replacement signature.
I'm sorry, but whoever -1'd this article was severely wrong!
It deserver +5 and you know it!
Once upon a time there were three billy goats called Gruff. In the winter they lived in a barn in the valley, but when the spring came they longed to travel up to the mountains to eat the lush sweet grass.
On their way to the mountains the three Billy Goats Gruff had to cross a rushing river. But there was only one bridge across it, made of wooden planks. And underneath the bridge there lived a terrible, ugly, one-eyed troll.
Nobody was allowed to cross the bridge without the troll's permission - and nobody ever got permission. He always ate them up.
The smallest Billy Goat Gruff was first to reach the bridge. Trippity-trop, trippity-trop went his little hooves as he trotted over the wooden planks. Ting-tang, ting-tang went the little bell round his neck.
"FIRST POST!!" growled the troll from under the planks.
"Billy Goat Gruff," squeaked the smallest goat in his little voice. "I'm only going up to the mountain to eat the sweet spring grass."
"MAE LING MAK, NAKED AND PETRIFIED!" said the troll. "I'm going to eat you for breakfast!"
"Oh no, please Mr Troll," pleaded the goat. "I'm only the smallest Billy Goat Gruff. I'm much too tiny for you to eat, and I wouldn't taste very good. Why don't you wait for my brother, the second Billy Goat Gruff? He's much bigger than me and would be much more tasty."
The troll did not want to waste his time on a little goat if there was a bigger and better one to eat. "MICROSOFT SUCK!!" he grunted. "Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back!"
So the smallest Billy Goat Gruff skipped across to the other side.
The troll did not have to wait long for the second Billy Goat Gruff. Clip-clop, clip-clop went his hooves as he clattered over the wooden planks. Ding-dong, ding-dong went the bell around his neck.
"MMMEEEEEEEPPTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!" screamed the troll, suddenly appearing from under the planks.
"Billy Goat Gruff," said the second goat in his middle-sized voice. "I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lovely spring grass."
"NATALIE PORTMAN'S CLIT!" said the troll. "I'm going to eat you for breakfast."
"Oh, no, please," said the second goat. "I may be bigger than the first Billy Goat Gruff, but I'm much smaller than my brother, the third Billy Goat Gruff. Why don't you wait for him? He would be much more of a meal than me."
The troll was getting very hungry, but he did not want to waste his appetite on a middle-sized goat if there was an even bigger one to come. "KISS MY GRITS" he rumbled. "Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back!"
So the middle-sized Billy Goat Gruff scampered across to the other side.
The troll did not have to wait long for the third Billy Goat Gruff. Tromp-tramp, tromp-tramp went his hooves as he stomped across the wooden planks. Bong-bang, bong-bang went the big bell round his neck.
"LINUX IS FOR LOSERS!!!!" roared the troll, resting his chin on his hands.
"Billy Goat Gruff," said the third goat in a deep voice. "I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lush spring grass."
"Oh no you're not," said the troll as he clambered up on to the bridge. "I'm writing an open letter to all sexualists."
"That's what you think," said the biggest Billy Goat Gruff. Then he lowered his horns, galloped along the bridge and butted the ugly troll. Up, up, up went the troll into the air... then down, down, down into the rushing river below. He disappeared below the swirling waters, and was drowned.
"So much for his breakfast," thought the biggest Billy Goat Gruff. "Now what about mine!" And he walked in triumph over the bridge to join his two brothers on the mountain pastures. From then on anyone could cross the bridge whenever they liked - thanks to the three Billy Goats Gruff.
That depends on what you mean by "good". If you mean a large breadth of support, then yes, Windows has good support.
But if you mean a large depth of support, as in "Yeah, I got that new SDG 123 card and slapped it in this weekend", then Windows sucks. When I used to run Windows I would never let any hardware less than 6 months old touch it (and I preferred to wait 12 months). Why? Because installing new hardware is guaranteed to toast Win95.
But still, "better than Linux", right? Yes. For now. But as more hardware vendors jump on the Linux bandwagon with open specs/drivers we'll see Linux boxes make the phrase "bleeding edge" a thing of the past.
---
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
I'm not much of a PC gamer - I have an N64 and a Dreamcast for games - but I appreciate what Linux games do for The Cause.
Go Loki! Stick it to The Man!
(And I really really hope you guys are turning a profit)
SimCity 3000 will soon be released for BeOS. Here are some screen shots. http://sc3000.gamestats.com/graphics/screens-beos. shtml EuroGamer have written an article about gaming in BeOS. You can read it at http://www.eurogamer.net/features.php3?name=beos
I can find no mention of this press release on their website (one would think it would show up there pretty quickly...)
Can anyone give us anything that will allow us to confirm this?
"You can never have too many elephants on your team."
1) I can't find any anouncement on the Loki web site
2) The cool thing I like About Linux is that it runs on non X86 hardware. And many announcement of That kind only care to do the port for the i386 linux crowd - once in a while PowerPC owners will have some chunks and pieces. But Alpha users never get any attention, not to mention other High powered platform running Linux
I whish the computing industry would realise that supporting x86 and only x86 is driving them nowhere because one day ( and Boy I whish this day to be sooner than expected) the x86 platform will die, because One day producing "compatible" processors that are more powerfull than the ones available nowdays will cost too much. Compagnies making games only have x86 expertise and they'll loose $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the day x86 dies. They should support other hardware, because it costs a bit but with that bit you usually cover all the hardware
sorry for being off-topic
none Yet.
If the original software companies aren't interested in making Linux ports themselves, then a go-between company that is & will is perhaps the best possible alternative. In a way, it's better, as you'll end up with a very big, very powerful games company for Linux - muscle that could come in handy to break open the games console market.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
This is wonderful. I am not much of a gamer myself, but gaming has always been a major factor in the development and adoption of computer platforms. I have personally bought ID's packaged version of Quake II for Linux and Loki's CivCTP port (although I don't play them much, I am more than willing to put my money into companies that are pushing the comercial viability of Linux.)
With this many new games on the Market, Linux is quickly becoming a reasonable alternative for home users. After all, the most frequent reason for not converting to Linux is the lack of high-quality games. That is quickly becoming a thing of the past.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
I've been installing hardware/building windows95 PC for some time now. I've had very little to no problems installing hardware, no matter if it is under 6 months old or not. I dont see why Linux people will tweak the hell out of it to get a video card to work, but complain if they have to play around in windows for 15 minutes to get the same card to work.
Out of respect for not posting the name and info from a private e-mail I will not list the company or personal name of where I got this information. In the process of e-mailing the V.P. of engineering for a well known game company (on a topic other than games) I asked him about his take on Linux support/development. Note, this was not anyone associated with Id Software as might be implied below.
:)"
"Glad to hear you have enjoyed some of our games. I think Linux has a
chance...but it will be slow going until sales and profits convince
publishers that it's a wise investment to do Linux versions. Currently what
happens, is a Linux porting group will offer to do a port of a Windows game.
The porting group gets a decent royalty for Linux sales and the original
developer and/or publisher don't have to pay for the port...so for them,
it's basically risk-free. (note that this doesn't apply to Id Software
since they mainly support everything for the fun of it (their words, not
mine) because they can).
So everybody support Loki as best as we can and the game makers will respond by making games on Linux.
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
It supports Win32 (either through Visual C or Cygnus's cross-compiler), Linux, Beos and the Mac (although the latter two need some more work). There's lots and lots of goodies in its API: threads, tracked music playback, MIDI playback, CD playback, MPEG music and video libraries, multiplayer net code, threads, hooks to OpenGL (it's possible to write an SDL program which is hardware accelerated under X f.e), hooks to GTK+, and fast access to X framebuffers through a linear surface which can be converted to any colour depth.
In short , if you're looking to write a game or any multimedia kind of app, SDL is the way to go. It is possible by changing a single switch at autoconf time to have your app recompiled for Windows 9x + DirectX 5 or better.
Another great thing is that this lib is being used for Loki's commercial games so it's real-world and any improvements made there go straight back into the source. Likewise all the testing and feedback makes it possible for all those games to be ported to Linux :) I know you have it already but anyone who wants to have a look can find it here
For a company to invest this much -this is going to cost a LOT of $- in linux gaming others are sure to follow. They can't all wait and see if it's a success. I give it another 6 months and 1/2 of the games that come for Mac will come for Linux. This is just great news!
Is Loki spreading themselves a wee bit thin? It seems like every month or two they're announcing a few more titles. Are they really that good at porting these things?
I don't think so. I still have a few bugs left unresolved from their first title, Civ:CTP. For instance, networking does not work from the PPC platform. This just happens to be the main reason I bought CTP, so I could trash my roommate, but I've had to do it running Linux under Virtual PC on top of MacOS instead of just going into LinuxPPC.
If you're listening Loki, I'm still waiting. And no, I don't want a refund, I want a functional game. I'll even help code/test it if you want.
alpha centauri is the best strategy game ever, and SoF looks like it will be a decent single player FPS. I can't wait!
Just a little question what kind of systems do we actually need to run these games? I have had a *very* difficult time even running fairly trivial ports of various dos games on my linux machine because they do graphics interface work quite poorly. If people don't believe me just look at a dos game (just humor me here) and play it for a while now play a compatable linux game on the same hardware and such. Assuming that the hardware requirements for the game are close enough to the actual hardware that your system has you really see lagging preformance.
If games control the PC market then Linux games will force a new system ever 3 weeks. I'm sorry if I come off sounding like a flammer but it's the truth with most apps the conversion process dosn't go well at all and just sucks mostly.
PS. Are there any good ST games out there for linux I sure would like a good native star trek simulation for linux (no not the BSD games trek).
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
I can view a .gif just as easily on a 386 as a K7, what the hell are you talking about?
BTW, Loki doesn't give discounts to those who already own the Win version of the games they port, do they?
Trollmastah is a valuable asset for those of us who surf at -1. Thank you, Trollmastah.
Actually I surf at -1 and I think it rather sucks but hey I used you guys as an example for my abnormal psychology class about group mentality and the warped version of the human psyche when exposed to various forms of stimulants.
These guys are just porting bastards! There bank accounts must be rocking right now. And why does EVERY single hot company now a days have to go public? IDSoftware is and probably will always be private? Whats so wrong with that? I guess its cool to have an IPO now. Everyone else is doing it? I think I will IPO the flea circus on my dog or something.
Loki is doing an *incredible* job providing high quality commercial games for Linux. I've bought lots of their stuff already (Myth2 with the WWII add-on is fantastic!) I've got to say tho, they really need to lobby Blizzard and port over some of their games (StarCraft, WC3 comes to mind).
Not only that, but they also promote OSS projects like SDL. Great job guys, you are filling what _was_ a huge void in the Linux world - games games games!
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Hey this is cool. Maybe I'm wrong but aren't these the first 3D games being done by Loki?!?! Interstate 82' and Heavy Gear 2. I'm psyched because there'll finally be a good racing/driving game in Linux. I'll be the first kid on my block with that one I tell ya. Now if they can only sign up a deal with Electronic Arts for the Need For Speed Series, I'd be in heaven.
Blender And Linux Fan
Just for your information, you can play Starcraft on Linux with wine. It is a little buggy, but it does work.
I am using SDL for a few game projects right now. It simply rocks, let me tell you!
SDL contains routines that interface to graphics framebuffers, audio devices, CD-ROMS, etc as well as routines for handling events and thread management. It is supposedly cross-platform, running under Win32/Linux/BeOS and others (I've had problems using it under FreeBSD, but apparently others have to according to the FAQ).
SDL is under constant development, and though I've only subscribed to the mailing list for a short time, the maintainer Sam Lantinga seems very open to new ideas, routines, etc, though I haven't contributed any code to the library myself yet. But, yes it is very much worth the effort. For being a low level library, I believe it has a very clean, consistant and easy to use interface. Also, the source code is pretty clean and well-written, making it easy to browse through to see what's going on.
If anyone is interested in checking it out, here's the address where you can find it:
http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/
I'd like to put in the obligatory plug for AbiWord, and Gnumeric, which are the most polished parts of the GNOME Office replacement. Remember, unlike their KDE counterparts, the GNOME tools compile, build and work with the GNOME libraries you already have for your everyday GNOME desktop.
Wow, I said a GNOME a lot didn't I?
Well, the other nice thing is that Gnumeric loads Excel spreadsheets, and AbiWord loads Word documents. So all that work you did in the OTHER office suite you were using is not wasted.
Of course, they're not perfect, but I think you'll find that they're both functional for everyday business documents, and my life is easier now that I can download an XLS file from a web site rather than having to paste data from the on-line HTML tables.
Nick.
While haveing games in linux is a Good Thing, and it has a benifit for the community, it really doesn't help position linux for use as a buisiness client. What linux really needs is
a commercial quality, stable(sorry wordperfect), and compatible office suite. Microsoft is not a likeley cantidate for porting office over to linux, but what about lotus, they have
already released domino server, how about a complete office suite, notes client, and web browser that work and look good together. This is what linux needs to compete against the
likes of NT. But, hey if I can use my system to play Simcity 3k instead of working, I'm all for it.
Wow just what I need. At the end of the day when I come home from work and everything is fine I just get back to work right? Nope. Anyone who actually enjoys working on shall we say unchallenging office apps instead of expanding his/her mind is a complete fool. I don't need an "office suite" at home. I would never need one and would not buy one. I think there are other alternatives to microsoft that also work for the office suite thing if linux dosn't have it anyway.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Who cares? If they run anything like linux q3 does on my machine they'll be crap..
Don't you know? Every game is supposed to run crappy. It's just the companies forcing you to get newer stuff and run it. Never mind about the fact that you may not want to actually get a new computer at all. I have found that out the hard way many times. Hell it dosn't matter that your are poor or that you can't afford one to the level that the game needs at all; it about plain and simple profit.
Plus isn't Q3 just some network game anyway? I will never play a game where the main focus is on playing over a network that I still do not have access to or a machine that will run said software.
But eventually you will be able to. When their little computers hit that little thing like the speed of light and they cannot increase processor speed then they will have to stop creating bloatware at all. And don't say that quantum computing will even cover this. The real world is not star trek and is not ever going to even come close.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
"sounds like you are either a red neck, a gang member or a spic."
The first part of your post was way way off. I know Mick, and he's a cool guy... has a good job etc. But hey, we act like idiots so why shouldn't you... But the above is completely uncalled for. Red neck, gang member ok... but SPIC? Racist mother fuckers like you should just be shot.
I think it's possible Loki could have a go at a public offering. I was pessimistic about this the last time I thought about it, but Loki is far enough outside of the spectrum of normal game companies for it to work, and they do dominate their (currently small) market.
But I'm still hesitant about that idea, because what they really need to do is secure their place in the market somehow. At some point, when Linux gaming is hot enough, Linux versions of games will ship under the same publishing deal as the Windows version. At that point, Loki has problems. That's what I'm worried about -- they have no ownership of their content, and not enough control over distribution. They need to fix one of those problems somehow.
So what about a buyout? A buyout by a large publisher would completely mess up Loki's current business plan. Then there's a host of non-game companies to pick from. Red Hat seems like a good choice, because they have that synergy thing and a great distribution channel to offer. Although it wouldn't achieve the speculative valuation of an IPO, it would be an excellent growth strategy for Loki.
However, consider this outlandish suggestion. Interplay is already publicly traded (IPLY), and is a mid-size publisher (an endangered breed). If they mated, I believe Loki would be able to enhance their position in the market, be able to take on a few original games, and get pretty good distribution and promotion. You've got a public company, you've got a pretty good distribution setup, you've got Shiny, Interplay's in Irvine, hey, even the name sounds hip. Not too shabby.
However, I gotta go for the Red Hat buyout as the most likely scenario.
Good god man, what piece of shit you trying to run it on? A '486? Quake 3 was quite play able on my old Cyrix 200 system with a Voodoo 3000 graphics card. I just spent $20 on for a 300 mhz upgrade and the system rocks.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I've been playing freeciv a lot lately, and am very happy with it. I can do without the bells & whistles -- I'm in it for the sim. The freeciv team has done a wonderful job.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
Well, if you used our moronic behavior as an example for your abnormal psychology class about group mentality and... you were reading way too deep into it...
People act like morons and laugh about it all the time... It's really not abnormal. You see it everywhere you go, and I'm not just talking about the net. If you want something abnormal, you'll have to find something a little more abnormal...
The first part of your post was way way off. I know Mick, and he's a cool guy... has a good job etc. But hey, we act like idiots so why shouldn't you... But the above is completely
uncalled for. Red neck, gang member ok... but SPIC? Racist mother fuckers like you should just be shot.
You want to shoot me but there are a few problems. Most likely you don't even live in the same part of the world as I do so therefore there is little you or anyone could do about it. You can't trace this post to any identifiable user name at all; even if you could all the user names that I have have all been aliases with totally fictious references. So I ask again *in a sneering childish voice* what ya' gonna do? The unequivacable answer: nothing at all.
SDL is great. It's a nice API, it's complete enough for serious stuff, it's usable right now, and it isn't overly ambitious. I've been pretty happy using SDL, and it has the best feature set and compatibility I've found. Check it out!
People act like morons and laugh about it all the time... It's really not abnormal. You see it everywhere you go, and I'm not just talking about the net. If you want something
abnormal, you'll have to find something a little more abnormal...
Interestingly all the criterion fit: unusual levels of swearing/profaning for no apparent reason, unusual preoccupation with staus and ranking in an unusual way, fear of discovery, etc) yup all there.
The interfaces for both versions of Civ 2 are compatible, but for some reason after applying the patch to the Linux version (and maybe before applying it), it wouldn't let my system host a game. Join, yes; host no. Is this a problem with the Linux version, or a result of my not using the CD?
Who am I?
Why am here?
Where is the chocolate?
What is your Slash Rating?
I *loved* this. It's been on my wishlist for Linux forever. I've written to Firaxis (orhwateveritsspelled), to loki etc and I guess it payed off.
;-)
:-)
I gotta bribe Kayt to get me on that beta, too...
I think Linux is finally catching up on the really cool games. Now, I am waiting and crossing my fingers if they ever manage to get the Baldur's Gate series ported. I'd told them I'd pay 150 bucks for Baldur's gate.
If they pull that off, then I'll start to worship the ground they walk on
Good god man, what piece of shit you trying to run it on? A '486? Quake 3 was quite play able on my old Cyrix 200 system with a Voodoo 3000 graphics card. I just spent $20
on for a 300 mhz upgrade and the system rocks.
Why does anyone really need to upgrade anything at all? Why is it constantly necessary to upgrade in a microsoft like fashion when linux was meant to allow crappy machines to shine. Frankly I find this lack of vision..disturbing.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
Lot's of people really rave about it, but I had a very difficult time figuring it out and I didn't like the graphics either. I ended up bringing it back because after 3 hours I still wasn't having any fun with it. But that's just my review, I realize other people are more patient than I am and with enough effort it can be a rewarding game (so I'm told)
Blender And Linux Fan
I'll whine and cry about it! What did you think I was gonna do?
Get a big hard drive and copy all the libraries the game needs over to it. Copy a kernel, too. Then if you want to play a game that doesn't work on the "new fangled" stuff, boot that saved kernel and LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the saved libraries.
If you were talking about Win95, though, you'd have a problem...
---
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
I'll whine and cry about it! What did you think I was gonna do?
Sounded like a death threat to me although about on the level of garfield's threats to people who wake him up.
no way man, I hate that place. It's too hot, and is smell like sulfer. And that annoying red guy with the horns never quits buggin ya. It's not a fun place.
So, I'm not going, and you can't make me.
Not everyone thinks it's a hot place I actually think heat is rather nice at times. And eventually you grow to like the place and the pain. You will adapt.
So, I'm not going, and you can't make me.
Maybe not but it still is possible to dream. Or I can just put probes into your brain and use you for chosmetic research and spare one of those smart chimps that everyone loves.
The main problem with running games under Windows NT has been the lack of DirectX support (NT 4.0 SP3+ only has DX3.0, and D3D is not hardware accelerated). As a result, a lot of games check to see whether or not they're running under Win9x, and if they're not, abort the installation. This is what BZII does, and it is possible to convince it that it's running under Win9x through the use of a utility (the name of which I forget).
Mind you, there are cases where a Win9x game won't work under Win2K, and there are cases where a WinNT game won't work under Win2K, too.
As for OpenGL support, it's there in Win2K (the version that is shipping), but there won't be any hardware support bundled on the CD -- if you want that you'll have to get the drivers yourself -- not too different from the current situation. As a plus, WinNT drivers, for the most part, will work under Win2K.
; ) That's an interesting way of putting it...
; ) That's an interesting way of putting it...
I actually thought so.
"#include" should not be a legal /. user ID - clicking on "User Info" for this individual's posts pulls up one's own data instead of his.
If a certain program really can do its job on a low-power machine, it's fine and it shouldn't be 'enchanted' to need more than it really needs. But should we forbid programs like Quake3 (complex realtime 3d needs modern hardware) or applications for large scientific visualization (need pretty lot of memory and preferably CPU too) if they do not work on older machines? IMO not.
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
So did I.
You sound like a high school kid though... just a guess though... Maybe a college kid, riding through college on your parents money or something.
How *DID* you come up with that analysis? Dosn't sound like you have any evidence to back that one up at all.
yoo spelt cosmemik rong
So did I.
That's nice
Whether or not an operating system is multi-user does not affect whether or not a user program can access hardware directly (although the idea of a multi-user system with direct hardware access is pretty daft). Win9x is practically a single-user operating system, yet you cannot directly access hardware as a user program in Win9x[1]. The same goes for BeOS -- single user, yet direct hardware access isn't allowed in user programs
As for whether Linux needs games, it's nice not to have to reboot your computer in order to play a game. I generally have a lot of state on my desktop that I regret losing when I have to boot to Win9x in order to play a game.
As for Mesa, every game out there won't benefit from Mesa, since it's an OpenGL replacement, and yes there are games out there that aren't 3D. Strange but true.
Operating systems and applications for them are two entirely different matter. Sure, Linux, AmigaOS and some other operating systems can run on pretty low-power hardware but
would you really want to tell the software developers that they aren't allowed make anything else but programs that work on 386 or 68000?
I have really seen some pretty amazing stuff on low end machines like these. All you have to do is optimize, optimize, optimize, and do some work arounds and there you are.
If a certain program really can do its job on a low-power machine, it's fine and it shouldn't be 'enchanted' to need more than it really needs. But should we forbid programs like
Quake3 (complex realtime 3d needs modern hardware) or applications for large scientific visualization (need pretty lot of memory and preferably CPU too) if they do not work on
older machines? IMO not.
Ever seen a program called gtop? This is a GNOME version of top and it just plain is a memory hog on systems or at very least significantly contributes to generally bad system load. An ncurses program run from the console is also safer. Linux dosn't crash or hand except if you use the graphical interfaces. Then you can have windows resource type problems in terms of the mouse barely being able to move or not at all and no commands can be send to the X server at all.
About the need to keep programs within certain perameters. Is it really necessary to increase graphics by 2% and increase system resoures like ram by 250% and processor requirements by 600% and hd space by 300% come on even the most avid person would not see this as an acceptable trade off. And that's basically all we are really seeing after all even with 20/20 vision you do not see all that much difference.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
You're wrong; Myth II and Heretic II are both 3D games.
--
I'd like to put in the obligatory plug for AbiWord, and Gnumeric, which are the most polished parts of the GNOME Office replacement. Remember, unlike their KDE counterparts,
the GNOME tools compile, build and work with the GNOME libraries you already have for your everyday GNOME desktop.
Well I actually had experience unless it has changes significant by lightyears of progress Abiword does not have even a fraction of the features of say Word or Wordperfect has in it. A great deal of the features were simply not implimented (the menus said that if you want to add such and such a feature here is where to add it). It's not a fair comparison because it not finished afterall.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
I do not expect the people at my office besides myself and the other programmers to use linux for quite some time (read maybe around 2050). Even if there was the most wonderful linux office suite and was free. They would still happily pay MS mucho $ and complain about its short comings. People don't want different things.
Our strategy to attract users (if thats the general desire) should be to continue making games. Get the kids early and they will stick with what they know (linux, free software et al) into the future.
Personally I really don't care if more users use linux. I use it. And personally vi is the only word processor (I know vi is more correctly labeled as a text editor, I'm just trying to make a point:) I hope I'll ever need.
I have my paycheque, and I think a good proportion of it will be going on loki games.
A few things I'm slightly concerned with:
GL. These wont be very playable on my TNT2u until a DRI module is availible for it, if Q3a demo is anything to go by. I can see AC and SC3k being fine though.
I'm tempted to not order them until I can play them well. I made that mistake with Q2, only had a riva 128, which just couldnt handle it, and partly wrecked the game for me. I suppose I could reinstall my old Voodoo2, but that takes up precious PCI slots.
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
I'm sorry, but whoever -1'd this article was severely wrong!
Maybe because the moderators don't think it's really that interesting.
It deserver +5 and you know it!
no not really
.
Trollmastah
.
yoo spelt cosmemik rong
oh just an extra 'h' big deal.
I have just a question : With all those games, when will we find time to work ? And oh, a second one : With all those games, all my friends will be asking me "Help me install Linux ! This is a cool OS... I need to play". I was thinking about 20 fake-nerds rushing on me : what should I do with them ?
-- Life wouldn't be this fun without Kenny.
I have just a question :
:
With all those games, when will we find time to work ?
And oh, a second one
With all those games, all my friends will be asking me "Help me install Linux ! This is a cool OS... I need to play". I was thinking about 20 fake-nerds rushing on me : what should I do with them ?
-- Life wouldn't be this fun without Kenny.
I agree, but when I was eight years old, I got into computers when because of games and games only. A lot of the kids who will be occupying our chairs in 10 years will have gotten into computers because of gaming, and if they did it on a linux box instead of their dad's win98 machine, so much the better for all of us.
Come on, folks, "Slashdot" the handeye.com box. We dare you. :-)
Hopefully everybody will pre-order these games from us. Meanwhile, we still have metal-boxed Quake III Arena; those are really nice.
- snack
That's annoying enough to justify emailing the /. powers that be. But besides that, I don't know about you but all of his yelling is making my head hurt. Guess that's what I get for reading it, eh?
Well, that's funny, my business has already dumped MS completely and runs just fine on Linux and StarOffice.
On the other hand I can't ditch Windows because I can't run my games on it.
I'd say your opinion is about two years out of date.
I invite you to compare Tux Games prices against anyone elses. They will be about the same. But then, Tux Games offers free shipping worldwide.
In addition, if you wish to see more of your favorite games ported to Linux, please check out the Tux Games Petitions page, where we are trying to get enough signatures to show the game manufacturers that there really IS a Linux games market
Well, myself for one. And, there are others who have posted to Loki's EUS newsgroup with the same sentiments. Personally, I think it's great that Loki is porting a cross-section of titles from across the computer gaming spectrum. We don't all love Quake (it bores me to tears, personally) and, besides, variety is nice. Different games for different gamers. I play everything from Drakan to Half-Life to Roller Coaster Tycoon to mahjongg, myself, and I look forward to the day that there is as great a variety of games for Linux, so I can wipe M$ off my hard drive.
I have to wonder if Loki is actually making any money at this. Everyone I know who runs Linux--only a handful of people, relatively--dual boots Windows 95/98 in order to run games. People who spend a lot of money on games can't stand waiting months or a year for the big name games that are in stores now. And since most Linux users got Windows when they bought a computer, there's no reason not to use it as a game platform (other than paranoid idealism).
What I'm curious about is how well our the games that Loki has ported, thus far, selling? Anyone have any numbers or rough figures?
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
This is so cool! I have waited quite a while for some of these games. I can hardly believe we are actually getting them.
Although I have one question: Will they be available for Alpha Linux or just x86 Linux? Anyone know? Thanks!
LONG LIVE ALPHA LINUX!!!
Fuck YOU, Bitch!!!
SMAC rules. Best TBS in existance. Now if only they could port to Worms: Armageddon I would never need to touch a Windows box again.
Fuck YOU, Bitch!!!
jackass
Yes, we do need those games. Games were always part of the BSDs, have always been on the GNU task list, were included with every version of MS Windows and every version of MacOS, and have always been played by computer users. And modern computer users want modern games.
We aren't necessarily looking to change the hard-core gamers' OS of choice, but rather the general computer users'. We need games for our Free OS if we want it to be complete.
I am a fan of the civilization and civilization 2. I loved alpha centuari. But I must ask, considering alpha centuari was developed by firaxis, and firaxis is working on civilization 3 (reynolds has said it himself), does this news bode well for a fairly immediate port of civ 3 to linux? Alpha centuari has been out for quite a while (i would guess a year if not more) and only now is being ported. So close to a two year gap is pretty bad for something like civ3 (something i've waited for quite a while). I've not bought any games for linux, but if civ3 arrived promptly after the windows release I would be willing to purchase the linux version instead (otherwise i'll be booting into windows very regurly).
A second question i have for this forum is what about Age of Empires 2?? Yeh its a microsoft published game. Yeh its directx 6. But hell its a great game and I would think it would be a great addition. If someone can convince Ensemble Studios (are they owned by MS?) to let it be ported that would rock. This is a dream I know.
Finally, are games really a good thing to have in linux? My personal opinion is sure, I would love to have games in linux. Just like I would like to have a fast and powerful desktop environment, as well as a great office suite. Right now the only games I do have are doom and heretic, which are mighty cool, but I would really love to get the classics like warcraft and warcraft 2 (blizzard help!)
For Win2k? Where at?
I havent seen em on their web site
Matt
Most pentium-class systems ;)
Who am I?
Why am here?
Where is the chocolate?
What is your Slash Rating?
I'll probably get chewed out by you guys for knowing this kind of stuff, but if you have ever worked with the actual DirectX package you would realize that a conversion is not as complex as it may seem.
... brr its cold up here in ND..
DirectX was designed to be a package of graphics/sound/communication libraries that interacts quickly with the windows operating system. I'm sure we all knew that. The important part of that statement is that they are libraries. There is a theory in computer programming that the main functionality of the game should be separated from the user interface. In fact even when the coding and design gets to the user interface level much of the design has been abstracted to such a point that to execute graphics routines/ sound routines/ and communication routines the coders will make calls to the graphics package of their choice. This is the key to reusability. When coding one should keep most of these library calls to only a few mandatory design layers. When a conversion is then in order all it requires is that the modules that handle the above mentioned routines be replaced with modules that are system compliant. Of course this requires work, but this is where a wrapper can come in to place and wrap all of the old DirectX calls and redirect them into "our" own system dependent modules.
If the product is designed correctly the hard part shouldn't be in the porting. The hard part is in the actual coding. These ideas are bordering on component technology, but in my research it seems that a lot of the hard code game industry and other development companies are going that route, be it through CORBA, COM/DCOM or any of the other component based technologies. Reusability and portability just becomes a matter of wrapping a few things here and there.
If anyone notices any errors please comment. Also, I am well aware of the design issues involved with abstracting graphics routines including the execution time. But if you do any real coding with this stuff you realize that the real time saving is not made by reducing function calls by eliminating redirection, but rather through optimizing algorithms. And finally, MS claims that there is a version of COM that works with UNIX/LINUX but DirectX's use of COM shouldn't important in a conversion if DirectX is being wrapped. It is definitely not important if the DirectX routines are being replaced by those of another graphics routine or by custom routines, but if there is some kind of DirectX emulation going on I'm not sure if COM would be required to work on the LINUX boxes.
As far as maps go, all of the maps are stored in data files as exported information (I'm pretty sure about that.) Just because the graphics are handled differently doesn't mean that the underlying data is handled differently. In reality the map data is exactly the same. The system dependent program will import a standard map data file and display the said data file in its own system dependent manner.
This has probably already been said by now.
Random Task
"I can hoist a Jack. I can lay a track. I can pick and shovel too. I'll do anything you hire me to." - John Cash "Legen
Let me get this straight?
"when I have to boot to Win9x in order to play a game"
Ah, when exactly do you HAVE to play a game?
I don't have to play games, I just have to boot to Win9x when I want to play a game. I'm not that much of a gamer, but it is nice to have a quick game of Half-Life when I want a break from whatever I'm working on.
Remember, life is more than just work -- you're allowed to have fun, too.
Which driver is that? Mine's not what I'd exactly call a "fast driver", actually I ended up going back to the June drivers. If these are different drivers please let me know!
i work in bellevue, washington and shop in redmond. i bought myth II in cbx and quake I in borders. i've been in cbx a dozen times and every time, they are sold out of quake III for linux and heretic II. i talked to the guys who work there and they said that they only order one at a time, but every time they order the games, they are sold out within a few days. this is great news, all. as for borders, they've had that quake I box for months and nobody bought it. maybe nobody buys games at borders??? i've ordered heroes III and was really glad to hear from beta testers that they are pleased with it. i'm looking forward to playing it soon. for the record, i know two people who own windows 95 computers JUST for gaming machines. one is a cop and the other guy is a manager at a large corporation (non-computer). we really need to support games for linux if we are going to win the desktop.
Sure, I would love to have some Linux games, but in most cases ports are released long after the original versions. Any game that I really want to play I probably already have, so getting the Linux version would require buying it AGAIN. Who wants to pay for something twice? Not me. Especially since, as much as I love Linux, its hardware support needs some work. Maybe X 4.0 will help, but currently the same game using the same hardware will perform considerably slower under Linux than it will under windoze.
Upsilon
I am not an idiot. Please use my name to email me.
"That's right, I'm quoting myself."
-Upsilon
Yeah. I'm sure if John Carmack weren't such a lazy piece of shit, he'd've gotten Quake 3 to run on a C64. (eyeroll)
1.) Under Windows, SMAC runs in a 640x480 256c window. Period.
Umm, no. I've played it happily at 1152x864x16-bit color with no problems whatsoever (Win95 OSR2). Make sure you've got the latest video drivers for your system and that you've got the latest Alpha Centauri patch.
Overall, I think that SMAC is a good game, but not an earth-shatteringly amazing one. Gameplay is very similar to Civ II. The SF backstory is a bit of a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it gives the game a steeper learning curve, since the tech tree is entirely invented, and it will take a few games to learn what the different tech advances really mean in game terms. On the other hand, players have much greater latitude to design units, so once you know what's what, you can do a lot of cool fine tuning of your forces.
My biggest single complaint - and the thing that ultimately made me lose interest in the game - is that the AI is really pretty unimpressive. It's no worse than Civ or Civ II, but I guess I was a little disappointed because SMAC offers a lot more potential for diplomacy than the early games, and it's a shame to see that nuance go entirely unused by the computer.
I went through several weeks of playing this game, and pretty much haven't touched it since. I really, really like the game engine, and it's a shame the AI just can't live up to it. On the other hand, I know there are lots of people who have had lots of fun playing SMAC multiplayer, either in "live" net games or play-by-email -- I just never had the time to explore these options, since games of SMAC can take a while.
I think games like SimCity is what linux is missing. One thing I hope that does happen is that they port the new "The Sims" game to Linux also. I want to experiment with houses of people... but not have to use windows to do it!
_joshua_
I'm a little curious if there's been any improvement in the multimedia layer that Loki uses since the first CivCTP patch came out? Unfortunately, on my machine civctp is a statically linked executable (Bad Loki!) and so I can't just download the latest SDL code from their site and try it. I'll happily go hunting around again if they've had a later CivCTP patch than 1.1.
CivCTP has some problems. I've played both the Windows and Linux versions for a while, and while both are unacceptably slow and memory-leaking for a 2D game (and Alpha Centauri is even worse - what, do we need to start benchmarking frame rates on non-3D games again???), the Linux version cranks up X's CPU usage as well. As near as I can figure, they send a complete screen redraw across the X pipe every time something as simple as a small cursor blink happens. And on a 1280x1024 screen, that can hurt.
No, I'm trying to play it on a P2 450 The problem is I have not got a voodoo card. Until a decent 3d implementation is available for those without a matrox or 3dfx it will suck. And if NVIDIA would open up access to their fscking hardware this wouldn't be a problem. WHY would a hardware company SCREW customers who want to use their hardware? Same with Aureal.
Polite letters by snail mail will work too, and in fact may be more effective. Do not flame, yell, or demand.
It would also help to say that you have to further interest in purchasing Blizzard games for windows. And, here is the hardest part, don't buy Blizzard games for windows anymore. They won't port their games if they realize that all of the linux users buy them too..
-bugg
You guys seem to be missing a very important point in the hardware support debate. Who do you think can write the best drivers for a piece of hardware? Obviously the answer is the people who built the piece of hardware. That is what MS does. It uses something called HAL/HEL which stands for Hardware allocation layer/ hardware emulation layer. It forces All hardware manufacturers to write drivers that comply to windows. From there DirectX queries the computer for available hardware support. If the computer doesn't have hardware support for certain functionality then it will emulate it. In this manner programmers aren't forced to program drivers for EVERY single video card out there. Programmers interface to DirectX (which interfaces and implemenation rarely changes except through new versions) and they aren't (and in my opinion shouldn't be) required to know how to interface to EVERY specific video card. As far as game programming goes, the graphics portion of most of them is really one of the smaller parts of the program if done correctly.
To the extent of my knowledge and experience (yes I have done graphics in both Windoze and X) linux doesn't have an allocation/emulation layer and this is why John Carmack talks about having to write drivers for every video card he wants Q3 to support in Linux. Linux needs to get a standard graphics interface layer if they ever want to really take off in gaming. Being a programmer I can tell you, I really dislike tinkering with hardware and I choose to use directX on an MS box rather than using other graphics packages with X and fooling around with unimportant hardware shtuff. Custom tweaking is something that gets to be tedious and annoying to real developers. We have a lot of other things to worry about. As far as most developers I know goes, we prefer to abstract as far away from the hardware as possible because dealing with hardware is really really buggy and unpredicatable most of the times not to mention the fact that not all cards support nearly the same feature set.
Random Task
"I can hoist a Jack. I can lay a track. I can pick and shovel too. I'll do anything you hire me to." - John Cash "Legen
One way to keep mindworms from attacking is to terraform all of the fungus away. That decreases the number of places they can form. You must also make sure to defend your cities with lots of units (3 or so) so the worms won't demolish your cities.
Do not underestimate the power of elite hovertanks to demolish all mindworm attackers within seconds. Build plenty of magtubes and they can handle any attack.
Single file or spread out?
Single file: give 'em a taste of your railgun.
Spread out: give 'em a taste of your BFG10K.
James
Nothing wrong with shooting, just as long as the right people get shot. -- Harry Calahan
this question gets asked about once every few months. I guess that consumers have to realise that the purchase of one ports does not necessarily entitle you to obtain the binary for another platform, without paying (in full).
links: http://www.lokigames.com/products/civctp/faq3-Sal
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
> I don't need an "office suite" at home. I would never need one and would not buy one.
... we already are home. I can teleconference, put together an equipment price list, draw some nice shaded boxes around the optional packages, autosum it, email the result. All without leaving my apartment. Hm, except for the last step, that all uses a spreadsheet.
Good for you. Some of us don't "come home" from work
You're so endearingly cute when you're elitist. I think it's the naivete.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
If I had any non-X86 processors what you've stated would probably mean more to me than it does. However I do know that Loki does their best to support non-Intel hardware. I know they've been working on PPC and Alpha ports of Civ:CTP for a while. Unfortunately I haven't kept up.
Improvise, adapt, and overcome.
when you post stuff tell us WHO YOU ARE !
you say that people can get products from a
certain place which happens to be YOURS like you
are the only place around !?!!?
I don't want to be a partypooper but first doesn't necessarily mean best. Even for normal 2D window stuff X is sluggish compared to Windows or BeOS.
Does anyone know if there is a way to speed up X by removing the network support bottleneck and uses more direct calls straight through to the server? I think that X is one of the biggest obstacles to getting Linux to the desktop.
--
Simon
#2: Does anyone really want to play year-old and older Mac games under Linux? I mean, what's the attraction? SimCity was essentially played out after the first edition I saw, on the Amiga, in 1990.
I have really seen some pretty amazing stuff on low end machines like these. All you have to do is optimize, optimize, optimize, and do some work arounds and there you are.
Yes, I have seen plenty of optimized stuff; there are some Amiga (and DOS too) demos that run a lightsourced 3d-world and other effects on 4 kilobytes program. That's rather nice display of skill.
Ever seen a program called gtop? This is a GNOME version of top and it just plain is a memory hog on systems or at very least significantly contributes to generally bad system load. An ncurses program run from the console is also safer. Linux dosn't crash or hand except if you use the graphical interfaces. Then you can have windows resource type problems in terms of the mouse barely being able to move or not at all and no commands can be send to the X server at all.
Of course it's silly to make a program that works well with text-based interface to use a heavy GUI. For many uses Linux can indeed work nicely without X, and that's a fine thing. But I also want to be able to use something like GIMP, a graphical browser (althought Netscape is a 'nice' example of bloat...) and hell, why not some nice games as well. (I like roguelike text-based games but if there's more choice than them, it's a good thing; availability of choice is IMO always a nice thing.) Those are just things that do not work as well without GUI.
So, I'm all for the following way:
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
Quake3 isn't available for C64, but there's a nice little clone of Doom called Mood available.
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.