Netscape runs on all Linux distributions. StartOffice runs on all Linux distributions. Quake2 runs on all linux distributions. Heck. even CW would probably run fine on my Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 box.
Saying that it is only REDHAT is wrong. They could release CW and say that it is designed for glibc2 or libc5, I understand that. If CW was libc5 my box would run it fine. If it was glibc2 my box would also run it fine since it is glibc2 based. So, I do not understand myself why they support "redhat" only. I was interested in their product, but frankly, after reading "For RedHat only" on their website I have decided not to buy it, even though I am 99% sure it would run on my Debian box. Long live gvim + gcc + make..
But with Wmaker you do not even have to edit a single file. All the configuration is GUI based. The bottom line, wmaker is much easier to configure, forget text editor and no one cares about transparent AS stuff.
RedHat 6.0 Debian 2.1 libc glibc2.1 glibc2.0 C Compiler Latest egcs gcc 2.7.3 kernel 2.2.x 2.0.x XFree86 3.3.3.1 3.3.2 KDE1.1 Yes Yes, but has to be downloaded separately GNOME 1.0 Yes Same as KDE
RedHat has newer software because Debian 2.1 was released a while ago and it was in freeze way too long I think. I myself prefer Debian because the whole system is very integrated, more stable, lots of packages, and the package manager just kicks ass.. And if you really need the latest software you can install Debian 2.2 (I know.. unstable... but it works great for my friends.) Debian is also easier to administered if you already have a half of clue about Linux.
If you got this thing working on Debian 2.1 please tell me what did you do. All I did is install their custom X server from 3.3.3.1 (but the rest of XFree distrib is from 3.3.2 on slink), Debian mesa 3.0 package and run the riva_install script. Everything seems to be in place but I still can't get quake and and xlock to work in GL modes...
Raster is right about adding more GUI shell capabilities to E. There are people who want to have a nice looking, functional, fast and easy to use windowing enviroment, but at the same time they don't want all the bloat and useless features of things like GNOME.
Don't get me wrong. I myself use WindowMaker 0.53 . It is reaching the shell stage Raster is talking about. It has app dock, 2 GUI configuration programs, themes, nice looking, fast , drag n' drop, etc (though, the file manager is not there yet). I have downloaded, installed, and deleted GNOME and KDE many times. Deleted GNOME mainly for instability and KDE 1.1 because I don't see why should I need all those features.
In GNOME and KDE it is easy to configure things like menu, background or the dock, but you can do so in Window Maker for example very easily as well. And the rest of KDE/GNOME deatures only add bloat.
I use gvim/vim instead of their pussy text editors, epic instead of xchat, xterm (with nexaw3d) instead of kterm or gnome term, pine/tin instead balsa, kmail, etc. Overall GNOME looks more like a shell for newbies, thats it. I like KDE more, because it has at least a window manager (and very nice), but still I feel that WindowMakert and other window managers already have all features that I need (well, a fast, stable, integrated file manager would be nice too but it is not a necessity for me)
Guys, any news about support for NVidia Riva128/TNT chipsets? Any news at all? I really would not care whether it is open source or closed source driver. All I want is ANY driver that works. I want to play Q3 test in Linux with my STB Velocity 128 (riva128) card in Linux....
Heh, this means that breaking ATM security will be easier than ever. Just catch some assh*le. Take of his eye with a fork and go to ATM to collect your well earned money:-)
Ok, I got a performace question. I got a P233 MMX Linux box sitting in front of me. I wonder if it is even worth buying a Voodoo2 or a Banshee video card just for the sake of running Q3 on it (Buying a new box or upgrading CPU is not an option). Did anyone try Q3 on a similar box (Pentium MMX 200/233mmx + Voodoo2) and Linux? Is it playable?
The SGI Linux and NT workstations and servers are/will be Intel based. SGI IRIX servers and worstations are MIPS based. (Linux does not run on MIPS well, NT does not at all) However, all SGI computers will migrate to Intel's Merced chip once it is released supposedly (yes, they will port IRIX to Merced too)
Ok, assuming that Voodoo Banshee is supported by Glide sooner or later.. which video card should I buy? Voodoo2 or Banshee for Quake3 under Linux? (Voodoo3 is not an option for this P233mmx)
I heard that Voodoo2 outperforms Banshee but... don't forget that Voodoo2 is a 3d only accellerator, it's performace must suck for running quake in a window (I think the only option of Linux users), Banshee on the other hand is better in this respect since its 2D/3D card...
stalker@foo:~$ finger johnc@idsoftware.com [idsoftware.com] Welcome to id Software's Finger Service V1.5!
Name: John Carmack Email: johnc@idsoftware.com Description: Programmer Project: Quake Arena Last Updated: 04/24/1999 01:34:03 (Central Standard Time) ------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------
4/24/99 ------- We are finally closing in on the first release of Q3test.
As you have probably heard by now, the first release in going to be the mac version, probably followed by the linux version, and only then the windows version.
Some of you are busy getting all bent out of shape about this.
We want to get a lot of people playing with the test to find bugs and offer well thought out suggestions, but there are classes of bugs and suggestions that emerge in each order of magnitude of exposed testers.
If a given bug is going to show up when a thousand people have looked at it, but we had released it to a hundred thousand people, then we are going to have a lot of duplication to wade through.
The mac testers will find some obvious problems. We will fix them. The later releases will be better.
Even if we had the windows distribution ready to go right now, I would still seriously consider releasing one of the mac or linux versions first because it will make our tracking a lot easier.
The holdup on the windows side are the issues with updated driver distribution. The game itself doesn't have any holdups.
We could do a windows release for just, say, voodoo2 owners and get some of the benefit of a controlled release, but it wouldn't really work out, because everyone would figure out that it can be made to (almost) work on lots of other cards by tweaking some values. That type of feedback would not be useful, because we KNOW that there are problems with most of the current drivers. We have been working with all of the vendors for the past year to get them all straightened out.
Glsetup is going to be slick -- just run it and it will Do The Right Thing for your video configuration.
We hope it will be done soon, but there are factors out of our direct control involved.
Don't be spiteful. This is just the beginning of the testing and release process.
One conspiracy theory suggests that Apple is somehow getting us to do this.
What we have "gotten" from Apple is a few development machines. No cash payoff. No bundling deal. No marketing contract.
I am looking at this long term. I want to see OS X become a top notch platform for graphics development. I think highly of the NEXTSTEP heritage and I might move my development from NT if it turns out well. There is a lot of groundwork that needs to be laid with apple for this to happen, and my working on the mac right now is part of that. Plus a lot of complaining to various apple engineers and executives.:-)
To be clear:
At this time, there is no mac that is as fast for gaming (or just about anything, actually) as a pentium III with a top of the line 3D card. Period. I have been misquoted by some mac evangelists as saying otherwise.
The new (blue and white) G3 systems are very good systems in many ways, and make a perfectly good gaming platform. However, a high end wintel machine just has more horsepower on both the CPU and the 3D card.
A 400 mhz G3 performs about the same as a 400 mhz PII if they aren't fill rate limited, where the faster cards on the PC will give about a 25% advantage. A 500 mhz PIII with an appropriate card in 30% faster than the best mac you can buy.
The multi colored iMacs, old G3 desktops, and powerbooks can play Quake3, but the RagePro 3D acceleration defines the absolute bottom end of our supported platforms. A serious gamer will not be satisfied with it.
Voodoo cards are not currently supported by the OpenGL driver, which is very unfortunate because many serious mac gamers own voodoo cards. I hope Apple and 3dfx will be able to correct this soon, but I certainly understand Apple's prioritization -- obviously, good support for the OEM video options is of primary importance.
The voodoo performance will still lag the windows platform by some amount, but some strides have been made in that area recently, so I expect good performance,
Gaming is not a reason to buy a mac, but Apple is taking steps so that it may not be a reason to avoid a mac if you have other reasons for wanting one.
Debian *CANNOT* be beaten - since 1995 at least it has been able to automatically update itself to use the latest packages, something I've never seen in ANY other operating system, and it includes everything you can possibly think of.
Windows98 includes a similar feature, but you have to fire up IE to be able to update anything.. Talk about obfuscated user interfaces vs. CLI:_)
Well, my original comment was overly inflamatory and I am probably the one who has less clue. Any ways. Lets not flame each other... Debian rules BTW:_)
1) I have used redhat for a while, rpm breaks all the time. rpm -Uvh for.rpm, rpm: Cannot install package foo because foo is installed, rpm -e foo, rpm: cannot uninstall foo because foo is not installed Does that sound familiar to you ? Also, Debian package tools solve dependencies on the fly. You say I want Window Maker and it automatically suggests all dependencies, selects them, downloads them and installs them. Try to do that on redhat!
2) apt based ftp installs/upgrades do work. There are no trojans, packages are pgp signed and you should download only from official mirrors. So instead of downloading 15 KDE-xxx.rpm files, I just say to apt-get install kDE-base, and it works. Of course they do extenssive testing. Don't forget that every release before being released is being used by lots of people for months. Every fifth debian user I know runs unstable because they like it. So the final releases are rock stable. If there is an update package, it goes to "proposed-updates" directory first, and everyone who wants to live dangerously installs that and if it works that updates makes it into main tree.
3) Most programs that could be packaged in deb format are being pacvkaged already. The exceptions are only those that are still under heavy development or those that JUST have been released.
4) Being able to contact a package maintaner DIRECTLY is always a plus.
5) I have used Linux for 2 years and I still think that the menu system is great. All your programs appear in menus and menus migrate accross the window managers...
6) FTP is a standard, yet the Debian install doesn't give you that choice.
What do you mean by this ? Debian is harder to install to a newbie than redhat but it is definitely more flexible. In fact you can install Debian the ways you can't do that on redhat (FTP install over a modem connection.. anyone?)
You obviously have not used Debian for longer than 3 hours, did you ?
E + GNOME ? Noooooo.....
on
Red Hat 6.0
·
· Score: 1
Talk about unstable. Only RedHat could make something as E a default window manager. No matter what, but E is far from being stable (aside from being a resource hog and ugly IMHO). Same applies to GNOME. No other GNU software was as broken as gnome when it reached version 1.0... When I see version program X v1.0, I expect that software not to crash and compile out of box on any unix flawor with single,./configure, make, make install.
Can't say that about gnome...
My $0.02
PS: Oh, and.. are they gonna ship a distribution with a "pre" kernel again? That was silly, 5.1 shipped with 2.0.34pre, 5.2 with 2.0.36pre I believe too.. talk about unstable...
root@foobar:/home# apt-get install xemacs20-bin Updating package status cache...done Checking system integrity...ok The following extra packages will be installed: xemacs20-support The following NEW packages will be installed: xemacs20-bin xemacs20-support 0 packages upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 12.3M of archives. After unpacking 33.3M will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main xemacs20-bin [133k] Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main xemacs20-support [12.2M] Fetched 12.3M in 1m20s (153k/s) Selecting previously deselected package xemacs20-support. (Reading database... 33726 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking xemacs20-support (from xemacs20-support_20.4-13.deb)... Selecting previously deselected package xemacs20-bin. Unpacking xemacs20-bin (from xemacs20-bin_20.4-13.deb)... Setting up xemacs20-support (20.4-13)...
Setting up xemacs20-bin (20.4-13)... Checking available versions of xemacs, updating links in/etc/alternatives... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating xemacs (/usr/bin/xemacs) to point to/usr/bin/xemacs20. Updating xemacs.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/xemacs.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1/xemac s.xemacs20.1.gz. Checking available versions of editor, updating links in/etc/alternatives... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Leaving editor (/usr/bin/editor) pointing to/usr/bin/nvi. Leaving editor.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/editor.1.gz) pointing to/usr/man/man1/nvi.1. gz. Checking available versions of b2m, updating links in/etc/alternatives... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating b2m (/usr/bin/b2m) to point to/usr/bin/b2m.xemacs20. Updating b2m.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/b2m.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1/b2m.xemacs2 0.1.gz. Checking available versions of ctags, updating links in/etc/alternatives... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating ctags (/usr/bin/ctags) to point to/usr/bin/ctags.xemacs20. warning:/usr/man/man1/ctags.1.gz is supposed to be a slave symlink to /etc/alternatives/ctags.1.gz, or nonexistent; however, readlink failed: Invalid argument Updating ctags.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/ctags.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1/ctags.x emacs20.1.gz. Checking available versions of etags, updating links in/etc/alternatives... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating etags (/usr/bin/etags) to point to/usr/bin/etags.xemacs20.
Updating etags.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/etags.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1/etags.x emacs20.1.gz. Checking available versions of gnuclient, updating links in/etc/alternatives.. . (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating gnuclient (/usr/bin/gnuclient) to point to/usr/bin/gnuclient.xemacs20. Updating gnuclient.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/gnuclient.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1 /gnuclient.xemacs20.1.gz. Checking available versions of gnuattach, updating links in/etc/alternatives.. . (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating gnuattach (/usr/bin/gnuattach) to point to/usr/bin/gnuattach.xemacs20. Updating gnuattach.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/gnuattach.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1 /gnuattach.xemacs20.1.gz. Checking available versions of gnudoit, updating links in/etc/alternatives... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating gnudoit (/usr/bin/gnudoit) to point to/usr/bin/gnudoit.xemacs20. Updating gnudoit.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/gnudoit.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1/gnu doit.xemacs20.1.gz. Checking available versions of rcs-checkin, updating links in/etc/alternatives ... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating rcs-checkin (/usr/bin/rcs-checkin) to point to/usr/bin/rcs-checkin.xem acs20. Updating rcs-checkin.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/rcs-checkin.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/ man1/rcs-checkin.xemacs20.1.gz. Checking available versions of pstogif, updating links in/etc/alternatives... (You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.) Updating pstogif (/usr/bin/pstogif) to point to/usr/bin/pstogif.xemacs20. Updating pstogif.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/pstogif.1.gz) to point to/usr/man/man1/pst ogif.xemacs20.1.gz.
root@foobar:/home# apt-get update Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/contrib Packages Get ftp://ftp.jimpick.com slink/non-US Packages Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main Packages Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/non-free Packages Fetched 593k in 2s (237k/s) Updating package file cache...done Updating package status cache...done Checking system integrity...ok
root@foobar:/home# apt-get upgrade Updating package status cache...done Checking system integrity...ok 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. root@r-398b:/home#
There are no new packages on ftp, so nothing is updated in the last command.
Oh, they have adopted XFree86 and now it is part of GNU. May be they should have adopted Linux kernel too? "Oh we give credit to XFree86 and Linux by calling them GNU since we have 'adopted' them and now have the right to say that everything is GNU." Doesn't that sound silly to you.
I still belive that the OS Kernel is the ESSENTIAL part of an OS and not the easily replasable GNU components that perform secondary tasks. I prefer calling an OS after its Kernel not a bunch of utilities of secondary importance. And why people always mention Emacs and bash ? I mean these are definetely replaseable by other free non-gnu programs. Why should a (bloated) text editor be considered as a part of an OS at all? MOST GNU software can be replaced by corresponding BSD progies.
RMS claims on www.gnu.org that the kernel is the lest important and the last components of an OS. May be this is WHY they have misserably failed with their own "hurd" kernel. It does not matter how many Lines is Linux source code. It took 100s of programmers, contributors and testers and 8 years of hard work to bring Linux where it is right now.
I don't like the whole idea of giving "credit" by changing the name of a program. How many people have developed their programs completely independently of GNU and then called it GNU something (gimp comes to mind). Just because there
is a bunch of GNU programs does not mean that RMS or other GNU members wrote them all.
Slashdot Mirror
Netscape runs on all Linux distributions.
..
StartOffice runs on all Linux distributions.
Quake2 runs on all linux distributions. Heck. even
CW would probably run fine on my Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 box.
Saying that it is only REDHAT is wrong. They could release CW and say that it is designed for glibc2
or libc5, I understand that. If CW was libc5 my box would run it fine. If it was glibc2 my box would also run it fine since it is glibc2 based. So, I do not understand myself why they support "redhat" only. I was interested in their product, but frankly, after reading "For RedHat only" on their website I have decided not to buy it, even though I am 99% sure it would run on my Debian box. Long live gvim + gcc + make
edit the /etc/X11/window-managers file to change that
But with Wmaker you do not even have to edit a single file. All the configuration is GUI based.
The bottom line, wmaker is much easier to configure, forget text editor and no one cares about transparent AS stuff.
Ok, here you go.
.. unstable... but it works great for my friends.) Debian is also easier to administered if you already have a half of clue about Linux.
RedHat 6.0 Debian 2.1
libc glibc2.1 glibc2.0
C Compiler Latest egcs gcc 2.7.3
kernel 2.2.x 2.0.x
XFree86 3.3.3.1 3.3.2
KDE1.1 Yes Yes, but has to be downloaded separately
GNOME 1.0 Yes Same as KDE
RedHat has newer software because Debian 2.1 was released a while ago and it was in freeze way too long I think. I myself prefer Debian because the whole system is very integrated, more stable, lots of packages, and the package manager just kicks ass.. And if you really need the latest software you can install Debian 2.2 (I know
If you got this thing working on Debian 2.1 please
tell me what did you do. All I did is install their custom X server from 3.3.3.1 (but the rest of XFree distrib is from 3.3.2 on slink), Debian mesa 3.0 package and run the riva_install script. Everything seems to be in place but I still can't get quake and and xlock to work in GL modes...
Raster is right about adding more GUI shell capabilities to E. There are people who want to have a nice looking, functional, fast and easy to use windowing enviroment, but at the same time they don't want all the bloat and useless features of things like GNOME.
Don't get me wrong. I myself use WindowMaker 0.53 . It is reaching the shell stage Raster is talking about. It has app dock, 2 GUI configuration programs, themes, nice looking, fast , drag n' drop, etc (though, the file manager is not there yet). I have downloaded, installed, and deleted GNOME and KDE many times. Deleted GNOME mainly for instability and KDE 1.1 because I don't see why should I need all those features.
In GNOME and KDE it is easy to configure things like menu, background or the dock, but you can do so in Window Maker for example very easily as well. And the rest of KDE/GNOME deatures only add bloat.
I use gvim/vim instead of their pussy text editors, epic instead of xchat, xterm (with nexaw3d) instead of kterm or gnome term, pine/tin instead balsa, kmail, etc. Overall GNOME looks more like a shell for newbies, thats it. I like KDE more, because it has at least a window manager (and very nice), but still I feel that WindowMakert and other window managers already have all features that I need (well, a fast, stable, integrated file manager would be nice too but it is not a necessity for me)
Guys, any news about support for NVidia Riva128/TNT chipsets? Any news at all? I really would not care whether it is open source or closed source driver. All I want is ANY driver that works. I want to play Q3 test in Linux with my STB Velocity 128 (riva128) card in Linux....
What kind of distribution do they run ?
Hardware?
Is Linux some kind of religion ? They use Solaris already. What else do you need? What Linux can do that Solaris can't ?
Heh, this means that breaking ATM security will :-)
be easier than ever. Just catch some assh*le. Take
of his eye with a fork and go to ATM to collect your well earned money
Ok, I got a performace question. I got a P233 MMX Linux box sitting in front of me. I wonder if it is even worth buying a Voodoo2 or a Banshee video card just for the sake of running Q3 on it (Buying a new box or upgrading CPU is not an option). Did anyone try Q3 on a similar box (Pentium MMX 200/233mmx + Voodoo2) and Linux? Is it playable?
But running Q3 in a window will make banshee look better ? Just wondering, I have heard Voodoo2's performace in a window is much lower
The SGI Linux and NT workstations and servers are /will be Intel based. SGI IRIX servers and worstations are MIPS based. (Linux does not run on MIPS well, NT does not at all) However, all SGI computers will migrate to Intel's Merced chip once it is released supposedly (yes, they will port IRIX to Merced too)
I fingered one of ID programmers and he said that SLI does not give any advantage at all over plain Voodoo 2 card, try to remove one card ..
Ok, assuming that Voodoo Banshee is supported by Glide sooner or later.. which video card should I buy? Voodoo2 or Banshee for Quake3 under Linux?
..
(Voodoo3 is not an option for this P233mmx)
I heard that Voodoo2 outperforms Banshee but... don't forget that Voodoo2 is a 3d only accellerator, it's performace must suck for running quake in a window (I think the only option of Linux users), Banshee on the other hand is better in this respect since its 2D/3D card...
I am basically confused about what to buy
stalker@foo:~$ finger johnc@idsoftware.com
- -------------------------------
:-)
[idsoftware.com]
Welcome to id Software's Finger Service V1.5!
Name: John Carmack
Email: johnc@idsoftware.com
Description: Programmer
Project: Quake Arena
Last Updated: 04/24/1999 01:34:03 (Central Standard Time)
-----------------------------------------------
4/24/99
-------
We are finally closing in on the first release of Q3test.
As you have probably heard by now, the first release in going to be the mac
version, probably followed by the linux version, and only then the
windows version.
Some of you are busy getting all bent out of shape about this.
We want to get a lot of people playing with the test to find bugs and
offer well thought out suggestions, but there are classes of bugs and
suggestions that emerge in each order of magnitude of exposed testers.
If a given bug is going to show up when a thousand people have looked
at it, but we had released it to a hundred thousand people, then we are
going to have a lot of duplication to wade through.
The mac testers will find some obvious problems.
We will fix them.
The later releases will be better.
Even if we had the windows distribution ready to go right now, I would
still seriously consider releasing one of the mac or linux versions first
because it will make our tracking a lot easier.
The holdup on the windows side are the issues with updated driver
distribution. The game itself doesn't have any holdups.
We could do a windows release for just, say, voodoo2 owners and get some
of the benefit of a controlled release, but it wouldn't really work out,
because everyone would figure out that it can be made to (almost) work
on lots of other cards by tweaking some values. That type of feedback
would not be useful, because we KNOW that there are problems with most
of the current drivers. We have been working with all of the vendors
for the past year to get them all straightened out.
Glsetup is going to be slick -- just run it and it will Do The Right Thing
for your video configuration.
We hope it will be done soon, but there are factors out of our direct
control involved.
Don't be spiteful. This is just the beginning of the testing and
release process.
One conspiracy theory suggests that Apple is somehow getting us to do this.
What we have "gotten" from Apple is a few development machines. No
cash payoff. No bundling deal. No marketing contract.
I am looking at this long term. I want to see OS X become a top notch
platform for graphics development. I think highly of the NEXTSTEP heritage
and I might move my development from NT if it turns out well. There is a
lot of groundwork that needs to be laid with apple for this to happen,
and my working on the mac right now is part of that. Plus a lot of
complaining to various apple engineers and executives.
To be clear:
At this time, there is no mac that is as fast for gaming (or just
about anything, actually) as a pentium III with a top of the line 3D card.
Period. I have been misquoted by some mac evangelists as saying otherwise.
The new (blue and white) G3 systems are very good systems in many ways, and
make a perfectly good gaming platform. However, a high end wintel machine
just has more horsepower on both the CPU and the 3D card.
A 400 mhz G3 performs about the same as a 400 mhz PII if they aren't fill
rate limited, where the faster cards on the PC will give about a 25%
advantage. A 500 mhz PIII with an appropriate card in 30% faster than
the best mac you can buy.
The multi colored iMacs, old G3 desktops, and powerbooks can play Quake3,
but the RagePro 3D acceleration defines the absolute bottom end of our
supported platforms. A serious gamer will not be satisfied with it.
Voodoo cards are not currently supported by the OpenGL driver, which is
very unfortunate because many serious mac gamers own voodoo cards. I
hope Apple and 3dfx will be able to correct this soon, but I certainly
understand Apple's prioritization -- obviously, good support for the OEM
video options is of primary importance.
The voodoo performance will still lag the windows platform by some amount,
but some strides have been made in that area recently, so I expect good
performance,
Gaming is not a reason to buy a mac, but Apple is taking steps so that
it may not be a reason to avoid a mac if you have other reasons for wanting
one.
MacOS still sucks.
Where can I buy one Vax Bar ?
Are those for sale yet ?
Debian *CANNOT* be beaten - since 1995 at least it has been able to automatically update itself to use the latest packages, something I've never seen in ANY other operating system, and it includes everything you can possibly think of.
.. :_)
Windows98 includes a similar feature, but you have to fire up IE to be able to update anything
Talk about obfuscated user interfaces vs. CLI
Well, my original comment was overly inflamatory and I am probably the one who has less clue. Any ways. Lets not flame each other... Debian rules BTW :_)
You have not used Debian so please shut up.
1) I have used redhat for a while, rpm breaks all the time. rpm -Uvh for.rpm, rpm: Cannot install package foo because foo is installed, rpm -e foo, rpm: cannot uninstall foo because foo is not installed Does that sound familiar to you ? Also, Debian package tools solve dependencies on the fly. You say I want Window Maker and it automatically suggests all dependencies, selects them, downloads them and installs them. Try to do that on redhat!
2) apt based ftp installs/upgrades do work. There are no trojans, packages are pgp signed and you should download only from official mirrors. So instead of downloading 15 KDE-xxx.rpm files, I just say to apt-get install kDE-base, and it works. Of course they do extenssive testing. Don't forget that every release before being released is being used by lots of people for months. Every fifth debian user I know runs unstable because they like it. So the final releases are rock stable. If there is an update package, it goes to "proposed-updates" directory first, and everyone who wants to live dangerously installs that and if it works that updates makes it into main tree.
3) Most programs that could be packaged in deb format are being pacvkaged already. The exceptions are only those that are still under heavy development or those that JUST have been released.
4) Being able to contact a package maintaner DIRECTLY is always a plus.
5) I have used Linux for 2 years and I still think that the menu system is great. All your programs appear in menus and menus migrate accross the window managers...
6) FTP is a standard, yet the Debian install doesn't give you that choice.
What do you mean by this ? Debian is harder to install to a newbie than redhat but it is definitely more flexible. In fact you can install Debian the ways you can't do that on redhat (FTP install over a modem connection.. anyone?)
You obviously have not used Debian for longer than 3 hours, did you ?
Talk about unstable. Only RedHat could make something as E a default window manager. No matter what, but E is far from being stable (aside from being a resource hog and ugly IMHO). Same applies to GNOME. No other GNU software was as broken as gnome when it reached version 1.0... When I see version program X v1.0, I expect that software not to crash and compile out of box on any unix flawor with single, ./configure, make, make install.
...
Can't say that about gnome
My $0.02
PS: Oh, and.. are they gonna ship a distribution with a "pre" kernel again? That was silly, 5.1 shipped with 2.0.34pre, 5.2 with 2.0.36pre I believe too.. talk about unstable...
I saw THIS image on www.netgod.net and I really liked it. Check it out. It has and GNU and a penguin on it..
I even remember reading a RMS' post where he said that he would like to see both, a penguin and a Gnu on Debian logo.
root@foobar:/home# apt-get install xemacs20-bin ... 33726 files and directories currently installed.) ... ... ...
... /etc/alternatives ... /usr/bin/xemacs20. /usr/man/man1/xemac /etc/alternatives ... /usr/bin/nvi. /usr/man/man1/nvi.1. /etc/alternatives ... /usr/bin/b2m.xemacs20. /usr/man/man1/b2m.xemacs2 /etc/alternatives ... /usr/bin/ctags.xemacs20. /usr/man/man1/ctags.1.gz is supposed to be a slave symlink to
/etc/alternatives/ctags.1.gz, or nonexistent; however, readlink failed: Invalid /usr/man/man1/ctags.x /etc/alternatives ... /usr/bin/etags.xemacs20.
/usr/man/man1/etags.x /etc/alternatives .. /usr/bin/gnuclient.xemacs20. /usr/man/man1 /etc/alternatives .. /usr/bin/gnuattach.xemacs20. /usr/man/man1 /etc/alternatives ... /usr/bin/gnudoit.xemacs20. /usr/man/man1/gnu /etc/alternatives /usr/bin/rcs-checkin.xem /usr/man/ /etc/alternatives ... /usr/bin/pstogif.xemacs20. /usr/man/man1/pst
Updating package status cache...done
Checking system integrity...ok
The following extra packages will be installed:
xemacs20-support
The following NEW packages will be installed:
xemacs20-bin xemacs20-support
0 packages upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 12.3M of archives. After unpacking 33.3M will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main xemacs20-bin [133k]
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main xemacs20-support [12.2M]
Fetched 12.3M in 1m20s (153k/s)
Selecting previously deselected package xemacs20-support.
(Reading database
Unpacking xemacs20-support (from xemacs20-support_20.4-13.deb)
Selecting previously deselected package xemacs20-bin.
Unpacking xemacs20-bin (from xemacs20-bin_20.4-13.deb)
Setting up xemacs20-support (20.4-13)
Setting up xemacs20-bin (20.4-13)
Checking available versions of xemacs, updating links in
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating xemacs (/usr/bin/xemacs) to point to
Updating xemacs.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/xemacs.1.gz) to point to
s.xemacs20.1.gz.
Checking available versions of editor, updating links in
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Leaving editor (/usr/bin/editor) pointing to
Leaving editor.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/editor.1.gz) pointing to
gz.
Checking available versions of b2m, updating links in
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating b2m (/usr/bin/b2m) to point to
Updating b2m.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/b2m.1.gz) to point to
0.1.gz.
Checking available versions of ctags, updating links in
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating ctags (/usr/bin/ctags) to point to
warning:
argument
Updating ctags.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/ctags.1.gz) to point to
emacs20.1.gz.
Checking available versions of etags, updating links in
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating etags (/usr/bin/etags) to point to
Updating etags.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/etags.1.gz) to point to
emacs20.1.gz.
Checking available versions of gnuclient, updating links in
.
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating gnuclient (/usr/bin/gnuclient) to point to
Updating gnuclient.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/gnuclient.1.gz) to point to
/gnuclient.xemacs20.1.gz.
Checking available versions of gnuattach, updating links in
.
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating gnuattach (/usr/bin/gnuattach) to point to
Updating gnuattach.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/gnuattach.1.gz) to point to
/gnuattach.xemacs20.1.gz.
Checking available versions of gnudoit, updating links in
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating gnudoit (/usr/bin/gnudoit) to point to
Updating gnudoit.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/gnudoit.1.gz) to point to
doit.xemacs20.1.gz.
Checking available versions of rcs-checkin, updating links in
...
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating rcs-checkin (/usr/bin/rcs-checkin) to point to
acs20.
Updating rcs-checkin.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/rcs-checkin.1.gz) to point to
man1/rcs-checkin.xemacs20.1.gz.
Checking available versions of pstogif, updating links in
(You may modify the symlinks there yourself if desired - see `man ln'.)
Updating pstogif (/usr/bin/pstogif) to point to
Updating pstogif.1.gz (/usr/man/man1/pstogif.1.gz) to point to
ogif.xemacs20.1.gz.
root@foobar:/home# apt-get update
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/contrib Packages
Get ftp://ftp.jimpick.com slink/non-US Packages
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main Packages
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/non-free Packages
Fetched 593k in 2s (237k/s)
Updating package file cache...done
Updating package status cache...done
Checking system integrity...ok
root@foobar:/home# apt-get upgrade
Updating package status cache...done
Checking system integrity...ok
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
root@r-398b:/home#
There are no new packages on ftp, so nothing is updated in the last command.
Oh, they have adopted XFree86 and now it is part of GNU. May be they should have adopted Linux kernel too? "Oh we give credit to XFree86 and Linux by calling them GNU since we have 'adopted' them and now have the right to say that everything is GNU." Doesn't that sound silly to you.
I still belive that the OS Kernel is the ESSENTIAL part of an OS and not the easily replasable GNU components that perform secondary tasks. I prefer calling an OS after its Kernel not a bunch of utilities of secondary importance. And why people always mention Emacs and bash ? I mean these are definetely replaseable by other free non-gnu programs. Why should a (bloated) text editor be considered as a part of an OS at all? MOST GNU software can be replaced by corresponding BSD progies.
RMS claims on www.gnu.org that the kernel is the lest important and the last components of an OS. May be this is WHY they have misserably failed with their own "hurd" kernel. It does not matter how many Lines is Linux source code. It took 100s of programmers, contributors and testers and 8 years of hard work to bring Linux where it is right now.
I don't like the whole idea of giving "credit" by changing the name of a program. How many people have developed their programs completely independently of GNU and then called it GNU something (gimp comes to mind). Just because there
is a bunch of GNU programs does not mean that RMS or other GNU members wrote them all.