Debian Chooses Logo

After many months of discussion and flaming, Debian has chosen a new logo. The new "swirl" graphic can be seen here, and the results of the vote are here.

Comments

that's odd

[Anonymous Coward]

anyone else bothered by this 'Official Logo' and 'Open Use Logo' terminology?
next thign you'll see is debian popping up with IP protection lawsuits

Re:that's odd

[joey]

The logos are under the licenses here:
http://www.debian.org/vote/1999/vote_0002

Re:that's odd

[Foogle]

Does the GPL extend to the logos as well? Are they free software? Can I change them to fit my needs?

Re:that's odd

[fred]

They aren't likely to be bringing any IP lawsuits (unless someone violates the GPL on, say, dpkg and they decide to fight it). They might, however, have to deal with trademark lawsuits. They probably won't fight any actual suits-- they don't have the money-- but they have to make sure people don't use their official logo indiscriminately. It would degrade the trademark and eventually they would be unable to defend it. That's the reason Slashdot has to use the styrofoam cup for Java instead of the real logo; Rob got mail from Sun telling him to stop using their trademarks Or Else. Sun, unfortunately, does not provide and "unofficial" logo. Debian does.

Re:Kinda looks like...

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree; it looks like an imploding Lucent logo.

Also, if I stare at it long enough it either looks like an ear or a monkey's tail.

I'm so glad they got rid of that 'Woodstock' Bird

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the new logo, it's cool and professional looking. I could see it in a slick TV commercial, shot in lush sepia tones, with a Buddhist monk doing calligraphy, with text overlaying the screen and a voice over talking about Debian's features, and it zooms out at the end to show the monk was painting the logo..

As a debian user I am proud of the swirl!

-Cargo

Re:Kinda looks like...

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucent logo? Head on over to http://www.newtek.com and check out their logo for Lightwave. Now *that's* similar.

Re:Debian vs Redhat

[Anonymous Coward]

best distro you will ever use. farthest away from
redhat as you can get. Even slackware can't compare.

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a contraction of Debra and Ian Murdock, the founders of the Debian project.

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[Anonymous Coward]

From http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/debian-faq-2.html#ss 2.5 :

The project name is pronounced Deb'-ian, with a short e, and emphasis on the first syllable. This word is a contraction of the names of
Debra and Ian Murdock, who founded the project. (Dictionaries seem to offer some ambiguity in the pronunciation of Ian (!), but Ian prefers
ee'-an.)

Re: Seal of disapproval

[Anonymous Coward]

Only debian would come up with the lame idea of two logos -
one for its official use and the other links, but none of
these logos represent that in any meaningful way in their
designs. What sets one off from the other?

The seal with his nose stuck up in the air was the most appropriate
one for debian, which stands in judgement of political correctness
of softwre - and it was a nice graphic. I'm sure the artist didn't
intend it as an elitist symbol.

The winner of the contest, the swirl, doesn't seem to relate to
debian. I don't get it. Maybe overall it was the lest offensive
and therefore the most politically correct.

It's just you

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Is it just me...

[Anonymous Coward]

... or do the Debian folks have absolutely no sence of aesthetics. Don't get me wrong; the distribution is technically superior. It's just that all the logos sucked, and they choose the worst.

Re:I'm so glad they got rid of that 'Woodstock' Bi

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.. I can hear the slogan now. Debian, it grows on you.

Re:Kinda looks like...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever seen the Sega Dreamcast logo?
it would be a nice little console if it didn't run
wince.
http://www.sega.co.jp/dreamcast/

Re:It's Spanish

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I love anonymous coward...please mister moderator, give its post a score of 3 : good joke.

bit reminiscent of jini

[Anonymous Coward]

it's very reminiscent of sun's jini logo.

AAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhgggggghhh!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell is that VASE supposed to be for!?!?
The stand-alone swirl is dumb enough!
``DG'' was the most interesting.
By the way, I read the ``What is a "Debian"'' post but not the replies yet. Ian Murdock combined his first name with his wife's first name, Debra to create Debian. It seems like it should be pronounced duh-buy-in, not deb-eeyun, if one did not know the history of the name (knowing that it came from two names makes someone pronounce the two parts like the names, which I didn't know, so I said it duy-buy-in). Poll?

Re:AAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhgggggghhh!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are you from? 'Debian' always looked like DEB-ee-ahn to me, California, US....

Not a flame, just wondering....

Re:On logos

[Anonymous Coward]

"A logo needs to be recognizable independent of the text. It has to work across language barriers. It should bypass the verbal part of your mind, and when you see the image, you should recognize it as Debian before you actually start to read what's in your visual field."

That's all very well, but seeing this particular swirl logo, without any text which marks it as Debian's swirl, people will probably think of Newtek's 3D product 'Lightwave', or as others have mentioned, Lucent.

Re:Finally -> potato

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's about time the new logo was decided upon. Does this mean the final version of potato
will be out soon...?

Why go for twins?

[Anonymous Coward]

Last night I saw the winning logos. This morning I cannot recall which was
the official and which was the un-official. Keep in
mind that I am a long time Debian user and the distinction is important to me, and yet I cannot remember. Imagine the confusion these logos will cause to the casual users.

I think Debian should continue in its adventure to find a logo. Why not? the logo process has already been a long one, some could claim, it
predates Debian itself. Having come so far, could you at least make the
two logos in such a way so we can easily remember between the two.

Agreed

[Anonymous Coward]

... the best name+graphic+layout has Slackware ... this new logo remembers me more the packing of a shampoo or of a hair lotion (or something else that you may find in a parfumerie).

*Ginn* (spirits) and Ala' ed-Din?! ... I hope not! For Disney I can't say ... but in the original literature *ginn* are typically unintelligent, forceful and nasty creatures, intervening to work out stagnant or irresolvable situations (inclusive the one of the story-teller). And Deus ex machina usage apart, ginn are totally incapable of thinking autonomously --which make them more dreadful.

Not really the best omen for a logo which should distinguish Debian --a very good distro. But I am not entirely negative, on the contrary: an authentic emancipation goes through phases of regression. The quality of the "home-made" biscuits from the small industry often decreases as the "look" of the packages and the marketing skill increase. Debian is not making concessions on its quality: let's even say welcome to this period of art-brut!

Sub-BTW: without being Andreas Feininger: there are things like `sectio aurea' (golden section) and more to take in account ... for the next logo-contest. (What I mostly find bizzarre in this new logo are proportions and position of the curled noodle coming out from the bottle ... well, a ginn!)

PS: Slackware is stellar "despite" his superior graphic (already seen http://www.slackware.com/?) ... I am in fact waiting with impatience v4-CDs. (Debian? ... I have it too, of course.)

Huh. A swirl.

[Anonymous Coward]

Swirl's not too bad. It'll be a good logo.

Hate that silly vase/bottle thing though. Reminds me of something someone's aunt would have on her coffee table, maybe with one of those big peacock feathers sticking out of it....

I also prefered the DG logo

[Anonymous Coward]

Next time they should open up the voting for anyone.

Not the bottle..

[Anonymous Coward]

The one that came second, the blue DG thing, is BY FAR, the better looking, the one rob uses is better then the one they chose, i look at it and keep thinking Do...do..do.do.dodo.do.. whats that blond chicks name, Eden, "i dream of jeanie".
..or a heavy duty buzzing think, used by females.
Call me a pig, i dare ya.!

Spammer's delight

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, nice list of addresses for any spammer.

Re:Spammer's delight

[The Queen]

Ha! Isn't it, though... Kinda makes me glad I wasn't in on the vote!

Debian Logo

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks kinda like a Dreamcast logo doesn't it?

Re:OK, but the Debian/GNU "web" logo rules

[Anonymous Coward]

....not only the coolest name, but the best distro of them all!

Slackware, the "Seven-of-Nine" of Linux Distributions :-)

--Lorky

"But it looks like...

[Anonymous Coward]

...some other company's logo cuz they took one line and wrapped it around a center point and 2d topology sucks because it's soooo unoriginal and everything is the same and it looks just like lucent's logo and why did they choose that thing I liked the slashdot logo better and this sucks and someone should get sega's lawyers on the phone and I hate that red color and whine whine whine whine whine...."

Want some cheese with that?

This is funny - in these comments I've counted 5 unique companies that have a logo the debian logo looks like or reminds them of (sun, sega, sybase, newtek, and wall's). Apparently all of these companies designed their logo not worrying about having their logo look just like all the other companies with swirls for logos, and it looks like none of them sued each other over it either.

Seems that true originality is an impossible dream these days, deal with it.

Re:Feedback

[Anonymous Coward]

Pay no attention to the whiners. They're just jealous because they aren't in the center of things like you are. But most of them are pretty young--they'll get their chance to be abused instead of abusing.

What most of them fail to realize is that the logo rocks and they suck.

Aaaahh.. Debian let the Genie out of the bottle!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's my first and only comment on the subject, since I'm not an artist.

Re:aahgh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I wish I didn't use such a stupid subject. DC area here. That is a good point though.. obviously first-impression-pronounciation would be different for natives of different coasts.

That's why they use dselect

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a great sense of technical superiority and an awful sense of interface design.

Re:Feedback here's why

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, what does the swirl represent? It is a very abstract design. I'm not saying anyone has to be a professional artist to design official logos, but it is a very simple, generic figure usually drawn in finger-paint on walls. And there isn't anything necessarily wrong with that. It seems kind of dull and doesn't have any specific idea associated with it.
Next, what is the vase for? The image of a genie coming out of a magical lantern comes to mind at first. One of the few things that this image means to me is Debian will be mysterious, and won't last forever (exaggeration, but still).
I'd like to know what you had in mind adding the vase to the second image. For the record, I can see what you were thinking making the swirl. It's a nice artistic design. It just doesn't ``say anything'' to me.

Re:Kinda looks like...

[Anonymous Coward]

Also reminds me of:

1) my electric stovetop

2) those things you light with a match to keep mosquitos away

'Woodstock' Bird?

[Anonymous Coward]

This one actually looks like the San Diego Gulls (minor league hockey team) logo.

Go Solaris

[Anonymous Coward]

for a real *NIX experience.

The tattoo test

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just wondering, if each logo were a tattoo what part of the body would each end up on?

Why there are two logos...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because in the northern hemisphere the swirl goes one way, while in the southern hemisphere it goes the other.

Re:Why there are two logos...

[Anonymous Coward]

Urban legend...or science myth. Has nothing to do with N or S hemisphere, but everything to with the particulars of the container and drain. People just don't notice that the water doesn't always swirl one way.

Re:Why there are two logos...

[demon]

Uhh, I thought it was a verifiable fact that water going down a drain did swirl one was in the northern hemisphere and the other way to the south, and I thought it was due to the Coriolis effect. You sure it's all just urban myth?

Re:Why there are two logos...

[HardLogic]

all a myth:

http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.h tml
http://www.badastronomy.com/mad/1996/coriolis.ht ml

I need a Debian 2.1 ISO...

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone know where to get one?
http://cdimage.debian.org seems to be down...

Re:Proof of one thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

No offense, but what were these [developers] smoking?!

This "swirl" is too whispy, too insubstantial for a heavy duty distro like Debian. This "swirl" image is WAY, WAY off. For me, something like a LOCOMOTIVE would illustrate the power, the dynamism that is Debian.

Sorry guys, Slashdot's is better, the old logo was better. And I strongly object to only letting developers vote. That's a real slam at us lowly "users."

Sorry, I just can't live with this new logo--I can't stand it!
AC

Re:Feedback

[Anonymous Coward]

The Debian lettering in the first logo is nice, but the swirl is just too vague and looks like a bit of an artistic cop out; "I know, I'll draw a swirl!" Why!? Debian will make me dizzy and confused? Debian is going down the drain? Lucent on acid? It really just looks like the artists couldn't come up with something well-drawn and *meaningful*; like Lucent's/Dilbert's Brown Ring of Quality. Do I want to use an OS that has a 'sketchy' logo? Do I want a 'sketchy' OS?

The second logo: um, Debian is vapourware? a product of Pakistan? (not that there's anything wrong with a distribution from Pakistan) Debian will stop working after 3 wishes? Pandora's OS? (ok, that's a stretch).

And how is it that the Slashdot logo wasn't in the voting???

Tux Sux - tired of the Fat Penguin

[Anonymous Coward]

Anybody else tired of the fat penguin used for the
Linux logo?

Debian finally got rid of the frozen chicken, or
was that supposed to be a penguin too? Some things to do with Tux:

1. feed him to killer whales
2. send him to visit the taxidermist
3. sell him to McDonalds

Any trademarks or copyrights applying to Tux? If
someone designed a "Tux Hunt" game, would they sue?

Re:Tux Sux - tired of the Fat Penguin

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm kind of tired of Tux too, but I think it's just due to overexposure based on the sites I personally frequent. I get tired of too much of a good thing anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like Tux Hunt exists in Redmond right now.

Last post !

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody post comments to outdated articles ! This last post is mine! ALL MINE ! and there is nothing you can do about it... eurm... damn, yes there is... back to the drawing board

Debian vs Redhat

[Anonymous Coward]

How does Debian 2.1 compare to RH6.0?
I'm thinking of moving from RH to a different distribution that will offer me a better *nix experience. I want to get *away* from windows :P

Re:Debian vs Redhat

[guacamole]

Ok, here you go.

RedHat 6.0 Debian 2.1
libc glibc2.1 glibc2.0
C Compiler Latest egcs gcc 2.7.3
kernel 2.2.x 2.0.x
XFree86 3.3.3.1 3.3.2
KDE1.1 Yes Yes, but has to be downloaded separately
GNOME 1.0 Yes Same as KDE


RedHat has newer software because Debian 2.1 was released a while ago and it was in freeze way too long I think. I myself prefer Debian because the whole system is very integrated, more stable, lots of packages, and the package manager just kicks ass.. And if you really need the latest software you can install Debian 2.2 (I know .. unstable... but it works great for my friends.) Debian is also easier to administered if you already have a half of clue about Linux.

themes.org

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm, looks like themes.org got themselves a banner ad with the swirl before debian's own website was changed :)

Re:On logos

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to propose that we switch the open and official versions, but I was waiting until the voting on the logo was over. If the swirl didn't win there wasn't much point messing with it.

I agree, the presence of an additional object in the logo should imply the presence of additional SOMETHING on the product marked with that logo.

In my reasoning, the bottle signifies the developers, who have granted their official seal of approval. A bottle isn't too bad for this purpose...the Debian developers all live in a fishbowl anyway, so... :)

Anyway, I plan to refer to vapors above the bottle as magic smoke. Debian is what makes your system run; it's the "magic smoke". All the EE's out there will remember learning in their microprocessor design classes that if you break open the ceramic package on a chip, you'll let the magic smoke out and it won't work anymore. :)

Guess I need to get about drafting that proposal.

-- Branden Robinson, Debian Developer

Feedback

[Anonymous Coward]

I am the person responsible for the controversial "swirl".

Thanks to all for voicing your opinions.

I love getting all this feedback but I would like to ask that if someone does or does not like it to please elaborate on why. Just like in software saying "it sucks" or "it rocks" just doesn't cut it.

I was surprised by the Sega logo. I wish it had been brought to my attention earlier.

BTW: I am a designer, not a programmer (unless you consider Lingo programming).

Thanks,

Raul

Re:Feedback

[sterwill]

Where's the URL to the logos you submitted?

Re:Feedback

[Ramalho]

I first wantr to state that I like this logo. Now, as for why, a logo in my oppinion must look good in color or B&W. It must look good at any size. It also must provide a good first impression.
This logo looks great small, large, B&W and color. It also has a professional look like the logos from Lucent, SGI and SUN. This logo to me speaks that this is a serious company that is here for buisness so people can rely on Debian.
The two logos are also important as you can have an official logo that you can control where it is used without keeping people from using the logo freely. You can see it as a Debian certified logo and a Debian compatible or Should-work-on-debian logo.

Re:Feedback

[Carlos Rego]

And I am a designer myself, and belive me when I say that logo sucks, it looks like a poor man version of the lightwave 3d logo.

Yeah, but they're replacing it with Bong Smoke.

[Anonymous Coward]

"That stuff will damage your brain."

It's Spanish

[Anonymous Coward]

Debían is the imperfect tense of the verb "deber" meaning to ought. So "debían saber la repuesta" loosely means "they should have known the answer."

I don't know what all this "Deb" and "Ian" stuff is.

Re:It's Spanish

[Rendus]

I don't know what all this "Deb" and "Ian" stuff is.

That would be the truth according to Debra and Ian.

Re:It's Spanish

[Starfyre]

But imperfect means it is something that continued for a period in the past. That wouldn't be very accurate then, would it? Maybe debiendo...?

Re:It's Spanish

[Tom Christiansen]

Debían is in the past imperfect (incomplete) tense. I wonder whether this has any deeper significance. :-)

Pronounciation

[drendite]

Well, I'm from Texas and always thought it was:
Deb - EE - un. (Deb sounding like Debra.)
I have a friend around here who says
Dee - bee - ahn.
Just like you do. (:
It's funny though.. I have typed Debian more than I have said it. (Well, if you exclude the wild chanting I just went into to write down the phonetics above!)

Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore

[drendite]

Red Hat? Don't you remember The Catcher in the Rye? It's an obvious refrence to Holden Caulfield's red hunting hat!

Wait.. No it isn't. I can't think of any other similarities. (:

Re:Other OS logos... Silicon Graphics

[ccg]

Silicon Graphics, in my opinion, had a nice little logo. I liked the bent-chrome-bar box logo they had. Of course, now they're just "SGI": Servers, Graphics, and Ignominy. ugh.

ccg

chad @ glendenin . org

Re:OK, but the Debian/GNU "web" logo rules

[Chris Frost]

> I've seen it somewhere, a picture of a little penguin looking up at a gnu. Very cool.

Yes, it comes with the apache deb still (just look the servers base page). I'd post a link to a copy somewhere still on my website . . . but it might kill my little box ;) So, if you'd like to see the logo, install debian on a box of yours!

Kinda looks like...

[Skyshadow]

Hm, reminds me a bit of the Lucent logo...

----

Re:Kinda looks like...

[WWWWolf]

Agreed. I like it. =)

Re:Kinda looks like...

[Ed Avis]

It looks a bit like the logo in the top left-hand corner of http://www.walls.com.sg/ .

Re:Kinda looks like...

[tigert]

Heh..

Try to design something entirely original these days... :)

I think the swirl logo is great.

Tig

Re:Kinda looks like...

[Chris Pimlott]

Personally I can't help but thing of the cover of Nine Inch Nails' Downward Spiral...

Re:Kinda looks like...

[corian]

Of course, there's also the DreamCast logo.

http://www.sega.co.jp/dreamcast/

Swirls are IN these days, ne?

Re:Kinda looks like...

[MartinB]

The Lucent logo is a perfect example of the Dilbert 'brown ring of success'-type logo, where you make a coffee ring, colour it a bit differently and run off giggling with the client's cheque.

This one's a bit better - I particularly like the OpenSource version.

Re:Not to be negative but... Oh yes

[gavinhall]

Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:

I was shocked by the ugliness of the candidates. Seal? Ants? I said to myself, "they might as well choose the voodoo thing." And yeah indeed the "SWIRL" design won, at least it has theis creepy thing going. (Creepy is a good word for me, i.e. old nicole kidman movies.) Sorry I have seen the Gnome Dragon, damn those guys know how to design logo (and throw frame ;)

CY

Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore

[gavinhall]

Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:

What are you talking about, Pengiun is by far the THE BEST logo in liunx community, it shows a lot non-corporate characteristic of this niche. And it's simply the best looking logo. Much better than the popular redhat logo IMO. I say they should have used this one:

http://tigert.gimp.org/linux.shtml

DG Logo

[Andy Dodd]

Honestly, I wish they'd picked that... That is one sweet logo. Sharp, snazzy, possibly even better than RH's logo.

Re:Finally -> potato

[ajk]

Does this mean the final version of potato will be out soon...?

No.

Re:Proof of one thing...

[sterwill]

When I installed Debian on a Digital UDB, I had no big problems. I simply read the documentation at http://www.alphalinux.org/, the Red Hat install docs as well as the Debian docs. I read all the Alpha-related documentation and notes I could find. I made my boot floppies, used a SCSI Zip drive as my base media, booted into SRM: "boot dva0" and I was off.

And for MILO... The MILO HOWTO gave me plenty of information. MILO works quite logically--you can ls devices, and boot any old file you find, passing kernel parameters like usual. Typing "help", I would hope, would be enough information to at least boot up a kernel.

When you beg for handouts, you get what they give

[Smack]

Designing logos is a real job. Look at any graphic design firm's page on the web and you'll notice that a big part of their portfolio is logo design. And remember that most graphic designers are still Mac users.

To get better, less ugly entries, the qualified people would have had to donate their time and energy (and creativity) to support a project they probably don't even know exists. Debian should be happy with what they get.

Actually, it just says "Debian"

[Smack]

The name of the product, written in a standard font, with a slight gradient thrown in, does not a logo make. While Rob's logo is great for Slashdot (it conveys the category perfectly), it would look like crap on a box in a store. And really, it's not "powerful" or "subtle" -- it's a word!

It would have been nice if Debian picked an official symbol (seal, dog, penguin, whatever) and then required the logos to conform to it. Then there would have been more logos that were in the ballpark.

Re:I'm so glad they got rid of that 'Woodstock' Bi

[che]

Absolutely! I imagine a sort of "Baraka" cinematographic experience. Automated cameras swiveling around a computer running Debian taking pictures every 10 minutes to show the nature-like growth of the beautiful native flora and fauna growing on the screen and between the keys on the keyboard, if you will.

Anyone got a spare $200,000 to make the commercial? I fully expect we can run it during the Superbowl next year.

Re:The SWIRL?!

[ninjaz]

I don't want to insult anybody but I kind of preferred DG. It looks cleaner and more corporate. The "swirl" even looks uglier than the old one. What does the heck is the vase supposed to mean?

I liked the old logo of the chicken, too. But, I can't figure out why Debian should have a corporate-looking logo. The responses in this article remind me of back when the penguin was selected for Linux. Half the ppl were saying "The PENGUIN?! DON'T VOTE FOR THAT!!" ... It seems pretty well-accepted now, though. Even if it isn't corporate-looking. ;)

Re:Not to be negative but... Oh yes

[William Tanksley]

You mention a Gnome Dragon... Did you mean KDE? The KDE dragon isn't a logo (it's too complicated). It's a paperclip-- I mean a mascot.

The Gnome logo (a misshapen footprint), IMO, is just dead ugly. I don't believe they ran a contest to select a logo, then when the contest was over (and they'd gotten hundreds of entries) they chose the same logo they'd had all along.

-Billy

Re:Thats Too bad

[William Tanksley]

Alas, then, that it's not a logo -- it's a nameplate. A logo has to complement text, not struggle with it.

You're right that it looks nice, but I'm glad we now have a logo. I mean, aside from the traumatically ugly and soon inappropriate penguin. (Inappropriate because Debian is working on a Hurd distribution as well, and the penguin is a Linux logo.)

RedHat has by far the best logo, one just perfect for their name. At least Debian didn't wind up with one of the creeping horrors up for suggestion -- the color-soaked seal, the crushed ant... The DG logo wasn't too bad; I would've been happy with it. The chicken was just too strange and didn't have the impact of the genie (perhaps it's too close to a penguin as well).

-Billy

Slashdot slashdotted?

[KnightStalker]

What happened to the last half dozen stories?

Re:OK, but the Debian/GNU "web" logo rules

[dangermouse]

"live, streaming slack!" -- who thought of that?!

I did... Thanks. :)

Re:On logos

[Phil Hands]

I see two reasons for using the plain swirl as the official logo, and the bottle one as the unofficial:

1) The plain swirl looks better IMO, and should look great if we can get it printed onto CDs so that it covers most of the CD surface. In order to print the with bottle logo on a CD it will have to be much smaller, which is appropriate.

2) If the lone swirl is the official logo, then the with-bottle logo effectively says ``contains Debian'', rather than ``is Debian''. Also, since it's an obvious genie reference, all genie stories have something powerful (i.e. Debian) hiding in a mundane object (the product that uses Debian in an unofficial capacity).

So, I think it's the right way round as it is.

Re:Finally

[goon]

yep, also liked the old one. why was the change required?

Re:On logos

[goon]

damn u guys are good, coders, graphic artists [insert expertise here]...

A logo needs to be recognizable independent of the text. It has to work across language barriers. It should bypass the verbal part of your mind, and when you see the image, you should recognize it as Debian before you actually start to read what's in your visual field.

sarcasm aside, yr spot on wrt recognition. this kind of recognition is what's been going on in the corporate world for donkeys years. what i want to know is why did ru changing from the original? the current one is pretty good and i dont see any that can be instantly recognised as superior.

Sybase logo?

[bjb]

Actually, I think it looks a lot more like the logo for Sybase than anything else. Compare again with the Debian logo if you need.

Re:Not to be negative but...

[matty]

It's not just you. I think they are all pretty lame. My apologies to the creators of the logos, but I really don't like any of them. I, for one, liked the hand-painted penguin logo.

Oh, well, I'll still use Debian, even if I don't like the logo. :)

Cheers,
Matt

Re:On logos

[Bruce Perens]

Gee, Branden, I wish you hadn't said vapors. Vapors is not a good word to use in this context.

Exchanging the logos would help, but consider other objects - for example a pedestal rather than a lamp to connote official-ness.

Bruce

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[Bruce Perens]

That's Denebian slime-devil, and it's in the Trouble With Tribbles, at the start of the bar brawl.

Bruce

Re:my logo

[Bruce Perens]

Ed, that figure-ground stuff is clever but it confuses the eye. I had to look at it for 2 seconds just to figure it out. As I said a while back, you should recognize a logo before your brain starts to read what's in your visual field. Your version doesn't work for that, although it certainly looks cool when one takes the time to look at it.

P.S. slashdot just lost a day's worth of stories.

Thanks

Bruce

On logos

[Bruce Perens]

A logo needs to be recognizable independent of the text. It has to work across language barriers. It should bypass the verbal part of your mind, and when you see the image, you should recognize it as Debian before you actually start to read what's in your visual field.

Rob's logo looks flashy, but is entirely text-dependent. I'm not sure I would have voted for the swirl, but I have bigger fish to fry.

Debian has an "Official CD Set", which can be redistributed by anyone without royalty, but its an ISO image mastered by Debian and its contents are strictly defined. Anyone can distribute a different version, that's what they call "unofficial". So they really did need two logos.

I don't see yet how the presence of a lamp says not official and its absence says official. Maybe this needs to evolve a bit.

Thanks

Bruce

Old one good? Not in my opinion

[Mawbid]

I thought the penguin was the ugliest logo they could possibly have chosen. Some called it simple and elegant, I call it childish. It doesn't look like a cute penguin to me. It's too artificial, somehow.

Also, keep in mind that while the penguin is Linux's mascott, Debian isn't just a Gnu/Linux distribution. They've got a Gnu/Hurd distribution in the works too (It's not suitable for Joe Public yet, but it's there and moving along steadily).
--

DreamCast Logo for Debian ?

[coockie]

Have you seen the Sega DreamCast logo ?
The swirl is much like the same, can't they be original for Debian ?

Re:DreamCast Logo for Debian ?

[Anti-Sean]

well, the DreamCast logo looks a heck of a lot like the Cinnabon logo :) wonder if Sega will ship cinnamon rolls out with the consoles...

Re:Proof of one thing...

[dvdeug]

Its like accepting code for a major project from someone who just completed his first 'c f3r dumm1ez' book.

So before accepting any code for any project, you demand to know what programming books they've read?

Part of the hacking world is not checking credintials, but instead checking work.

Not to be negative but...

[Decibel]

Is it just me, or are the choices pretty ugly? I would suggest they open it up for more entries. Just my opinion. :)

Re:Not to be negative but...

[Tarnar]

Well, while the Swirl that won wasn't THAT great, the DG (second placer) was v. cool.

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[dw]

I like it. Why don't we change the name to Denebian and craft a slime-devil for the logo :)

OK, but the Debian/GNU "web" logo rules

[cthonious]

I've seen it somewhere, a picture of a little penguin looking up at a gnu. Very cool.

Still, slackware has the coolest name and the best logo ("live, streaming slack!" -- who thought of that?!)

Re:Thats Too bad

[raw]

Agreed. What's the connection with Debian and a magic lamp?

Proof of one thing...

[juuri]

... most coders/admins/geeks have a serious lack of aesthetics. This combined with their inability to make sensible layouts is the reason there are so many damn awful looking web pages out there.

And you know what? Saying that graphic design isn't what you do and then turning around and doing it isn't an excuse. Its like accepting code for a major project from someone who just completed his first 'c f3r dumm1ez' book.
---
Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...

Re:Proof of one thing...

[alhaz]

You haven't figured it out yet, have you.

The Debian distribution panders to developers, and that's about it. The design reflects it. The documentation reflects it.

I'm not an idiot but I don't have the time to ferret out every last little fact. I don't appriciate when the docs for something assume I'm already in the know, and contain a lot of references to things that "ought to just work" and things that "should" happen.

I recently attempted to install Debian 2.1 on a DEC Multia. Was a complete bust. The docs are just the Intel docs with the header changed to reflect Alpha systems. They didn't even change the part about bootable CDs, and ElTorito is only supported by intel systems.

What's more, the few fleeting installation notes in the README are false. And nobody on the mailing list felt like responding to an installation problem experienced by every single person who attempts to follow those instructions.

Let me be perfectly clear on this - if you use the MILO commandline in the Debian 2.1/Alpha installation README, you are guaranteed failure.

And why didn't anybody give a rat's posterior about my problem? I'm just a user.

I'm no fan of RedHat, but, the RedHat/Sparc community was far more helpful when i was messing around with old sparcstations.

Personally, i'm a SuSE fan.

Re:Other OS logos...

[Type-R]

One word, errr, acyronym:

OpenBSD

oh you fickle people :}

[AraQniD]

I just find it amusing to see the number of people saying the swirl sucks, given that last time the logos were shown on slashdot, it was the one most people seemed to be drooling over :}

Re:oh you fickle people :}

[init-]

Yeah, new logo looks nice. Yet, it can't see what's wrong with the old one.

Re:Thats Too bad

[tigert]

..or "Rub the IRC and the guys will help :)"

It's all of the Linux community, the support is great. And I think #debian is very good in that.

IMHO the logo is right on place.

Tig

Both Debian AND Dreamcast are rip-offs!

[The Dodger]

Well, considering that the Celts were carving spirals into rocks at places like Newgrange in Ireland more than 5,000 years ago, I think that both the Dreamcast and Debian logos are rip-offs...

Dodger
High King of Ireland

Re:Both Debian AND Dreamcast are rip-offs!

[CryptdotX]

Yeah, well, their patent on the spiral has since expired.

Re:Kinda looks like...NEWTEK!!!

[Flynn]

My thoughts exactly.....

Re:Thats Too bad

[belbo]

Maybe they want to change their name to GNU/Jeannie... *grin*

Serious, I don't understand this decision. This logo looks neither professional nor intuitive. Guess these guys have just to often used dselect...

NOM, I am very fond of Debian, but I go with Wilde: 'better loosing a friend than a bonmot'.

belbo. I support zero score posting.

looks commercial

[jetson123]

That's the kind of logo I would expect for a commercial startup or 90's big company spinoff (in fact, if pressed, I would have guessed that the debian-log-with-vase is the Magic Cap logo).

Is a more corporate image where Debian wants to go? I also noted some rather corporate looking press releases. I like the old Debian logo because it is friendly, personal, and looked pretty non-commercial to me--a good match to Debian's goals I thought.

Other OS logos...

[Androgynous Coward]

Let's see...

Windows with the 8bit window-thingies that they insist on continuing to package as a screensaver sucks....

MacOS with the Janus-like face look old...

Be is okay...straight to the point & nothing fancy.

RedHat's is cool in my opinion...sharp looking

FreeBSD's looks like a bad tattoo

Debian's is okay but not great and I think the swirl is a bit reminicent of Lucent as was stated earlier.

Prognosis: some people should stick to programming and give the design over to someone else.

AC

Sure You Are...

[Simeon2000]

And I'm Alan Cox, and I really don't appreciate you making such a silly logo for an OS surrounding a kernel I've worked so hard on!

:)
----- if ($anyone_cares) {print "Just Another Perl Newbie"}

Re:I'm so glad they got rid of that 'Woodstock' Bi

[Zoyd]

Woodstock? I thought it was the Partridge Family bird.

Re:z0rk

[ethereal]

My impression was that they were drawing a parallel between a colony of ants working together for the common good, and collection of Debian developers worldwide working together on Debian. Each one just does a little bit, but something larger than themselves is created.

Of course, I didn't understand the ants either until it was explained this way in the last Slashdot article about the logo contest. The swirl was really the only good alternative, although I prefer their old penguin to the new swirl. The Gnu looking at the penguin was pretty cool too, although I think it was too big for a /. logo or letterhead.

The SWIRL?!

[johnnnyboy]

I don't want to insult anybody but I kind of preferred DG. It looks cleaner and more corporate. The "swirl" even looks uglier than the old one. What does the heck is the vase supposed to mean?

What is a "Debian" anyways?

[webslacker]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've always wondered if "Debian" was a person's name, or if it meant something. Mr. Webster doesn't seem to have an answer. Does anyone out there know?

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[Jonas �berg]

The Debian Project History is good for general history of Debian. The name Debian though is a combination of the creators name, Ian Murdock, and his wife Debra.

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[Ketchup]

Ya, ya, Devils == Unix ...

Oh wait thats daemons... Nervermind...

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[Real Timer]

Wasn't this one of the aliens on the old classic
Star Trek series? One of the Klingons compares
Captain Kirk to a Debian slime devil, right before
the big bar brawl scene in the Trouble with Tribbles episode.

Re:What is a "Debian" anyways?

[GenlyAi]

Because "Debian" looks vaguely like "Deneb", I always thought of a star, or of the constellation Cygnus, the swan.

Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore

[Chris Pimlott]

The whole point of the penguin is to remind us of where we have come from and who we are. It keeps us from taking ourselves too serious, thinking we're too cool, getting full of ourselves. We're just a bunch of guys working together to make a neat little system that works for us.

z0rk

[Kysh]

When you consider the competition, it's no
surprise that swirl should come out on top. I mean
look at Ants.. can anyone discern any logical
correlation between 'ants' and 'Debian'? Or 'ants'
and anything except modern art? :>

Debian isn't comprised of artists. It's comprised
of programmers, sysadmins, system analysts and
engineers. :> Although I do agree that the /.
Debian logo was better. :>

Re:Other OS logos... Amiga Boing Ball !

[DGolden]

Amiga (i) + Amiga NG -
Red + White chequered beach ball
Hey, it was cool when it bounced + spun. :-)


Amiga (ii) - "Rainbow Tick"
I liked the rainbow tick.


CBM - ChickenHead !!!

Finally

[enum]

I'm happy thats all over. I kind of preferred that one anyway, but I liked the old one more.

Re:When you beg for handouts, you get what they gi

[Starfyre]

I would have to disagree there. I've designed a number of logos and rejuvenated old ones and I'm by no means a profesional artist. It doesn't take any specific training, just a good eye. Grafix is my thing, and I'm certainly not a Mac user. Yes, they're good for multimedia, but the interface is so lame. I liked the DG entry, much more profesional looking at least. But then again, it would be harder to convert to ascii art.

"To get better, less ugly entries..." Some could say the same about better, non-crashing OS's, but it seems to me like the best thing out there is free. Any true geek would gladly work on a project with only the pride of knowing his efforts were used and benefit others.

Starfyre

Re: Seal of disapproval

[AJWM]

Seals eat penguins, don't they? (Or is that just killer whales (orca)?)

I wonder what the artist was thinking...

my logo

[Edward Carter]

Here is my logo entry. At least IMHO, it is better than at least some of the nominations (especially if I'd gotten a chance to polish it up a little more: I had to rush myself just to make the gimp contest deadline).

Re: Seal of disapproval

[ItsBacon]

Yeah, this is offtopic...

Leopard seals, which live in the Antarctic, mainly eat penguins and other seals.

At least it's not a pengiun anymore

[Silex]

No offense to anyone (e.g. Linus Trovalds) but the Pengiun doesn't really reflect the cutting-edge, high-tech image of Linux. Personally, I think almost ANYTHING is better than the pengiun. Especially that famous version of the Pengiun which Slashdot uses on the icon bar.

Personally, I think computer organizations have a real problem with names and logos. Redhat? What kind of name is that. Just because the founder's grandfather had given hima RED HAT, Redhat is almost synonymous for Linux. Sorry to say, that's a really bad reason to use a name. VA Research .. it's a little better ... but what's VA? The list goes on and on.

We need some kind of organization which simply works on Linux promotional media, such as slogans, logos, link buttons, 'Powered by Linux' graphics and so forth. Just because Linux is GPLed doesn't mean we shouldn't market it like crazy.

Re:At least it's not a pengiun anymore

[GenlyAi]

the Pengiun doesn't really reflect the cutting-edge, high-tech image of Linux

I think for hairy-scary Un*x versions to make it into the warm-fuzzy desktop world a nice penguin or two would be just the ticket. Although, for those fanatics out there, perhaps a "bleeding edge" dagger, dripping blood, would work just as well. :)

As for Redhat's eponymous red hat, for brand recognition it just doesn't get any better than that. It may be a silly name to call a company or organization, but, then again, so is "GNU" or even "Slashdot".

At least they didn't choose the Dogbert Method of Naming, using random words from technology and astronomy. I'd love to use the "Uranus-Hertz" distro of Linux. Imagine the logo for that.

Goodbye to the chicken

[noelyap]

I find it interesting that hardly anyone said anything nice about the old logo back when Bruce Perens chose it. Now that ol' blue eyes is on its way out, people are saying how much they liked it and how much better it is than the swirl.

Agreed - good logo!

[timothy]

It's simple without being austere, it shows well in various color depths and sizes, it isn't a literal (which could be misconstrued just as many people are willfully misconstruing the swirl in this forum, if not even more badly), it's a little bit mysterious and intriguing.

That said, I should admit to liking the lucent ring and the sun diamond pretty well also. Coming up with a good logotype is hard work, and I think the Debian crew picked a good one.

timothy

not that it matters but...

[Morpheous]

Personally, I am not impressed with the "Swirl". Many of the others, as well as CT's, seem much nicer to me. Not that anyone cares though. On an offtopic note, I am interested in switching to Debian... from what I hear, it is techncally superior. If there are any Debian users out there who would like to convert me, feel free to email me...don't post please, since it's off topic.

--"A man's Palm is his best friend."

so..

[Josh Picker]

if Debian has a new logo, why am i still looking at the same old one on my icon bar?

:)

Re:Kinda looks like SYBASE

[seesik]

it looks like the top half of a sybase logo. as for most of the other comparisons, you guys need to back up of the acid. 'cept for the monkey tail thing.

=P

http://www.sybase.com

http://rc5stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/

etc.

Take a look at a nice penguin

[Carlos Rego]

the penguin is a logo as good as any other, remeber when they said "Apple" what kind of a name is that for a computer ?

anyway, tak a look at this penguin

http://www.3dwizards.com/linux

The ever-lovable gnulix guy...

[gnulix guy]

...would like to say I don't much care for the winning logo, nor the other choices either. ;-(

(What's wrong with the Debian logo that is used for the SlashDot icon bar??)

Re:Thats Too bad

[lakdjfalkdj]

I was thinking just a few seconds before I read the comments that Rob's logo actually looked pretty nice. So I found it ironic that you mentioned the same.

The logo that is now the offical seems nice. I actually have a nuteral position on the current one(and I'm a Debian user).

I read the other comments of others with their comments of that the Rob's logo is "just a name", but the thing is, is that Debian is "just a name" as well. It came about from from the Debian's creators names. It's not like MS Windows where they can put a picture of a Window for the Logo.

If you look at a lot of computer companies their logo's are really just their name, they don't have a picture of some animal or something with it. So honestly what's wrong with just saying "Debian" that looks really neat?

I think in the end, when someone is in a Store looking at an Operating System to buy they aren't going to go, "Hey look honey, this 'Debian' thing has this really neat swirl for this logo lets BUY it!" then the wife says, "Well hone, I think this thing with the Windows logo is better lets buy that!" Honestly, you don't buy software for their logo without any clue what it is in the first place so why make so much out of a logo in the first place? Rob's looks fine, I don't see anything wrong with it being "just a name".

- My 2 cents.

Debian Logo...

["LEVIATHAN"]

looking at it... I must admit, it really sux. The Debian logo slashdot has is sooo much better.

And yeah, it is reminicent of the Jini logo... :)

byebye! --"LEVIATHAN"

That stupid bird was their Logo!?!?

[Javert42]

Dang, I think that Debian logo used for the Slashdot topic is enormously better looking that bird-on-crack... At least 42 times better that that swirl. It looks like Lucent-on-acid... Excuse me, I just don't know why I keep on spewing out these drug phrases.... Anyway....hmmmmm....

Debian DreamCast

[MegaD]

Who's idea was it for Debian to steal the Sega DreamCast logo?

D

Re:Feedback here's why

[rasterbator]

From the original submission:

Debian Open Use Logo

this family of logos has been designed to meet the following criteria:

work well in black/white as well as color
scalable (small reproduction size versions included)
not too detailed
the string "Debian" can be added/removed w/o making it look bad and retaining recognition
formats included for vertical and horizontal use

The concept is a genie bottle that has been opened.

The vision it conveys is that the genie is out of the bottle, the curl of smoke symbolizes something great, free, liberating, dynamic, global, expanding, changing and empowering being released to the world.

---------

Debian Official Logo

this family of logos has been designed to meet the following criteria:

work well in black/white as well as color
scalable (small reproduction size versions included)
not too detailed
the string "Debian" can be added/removed w/o making it look bad while retaining recognition
formats included for vertical and horizontal use

The concept is a derivation from the submited Debian Open Use logo. On the Open Use logo the theme is a genie bottle that has been opened.

The vision it conveys is that the genie is out of the bottle, the curl of smoke symbolizes something great, free, liberating, dynamic, global, expanding, changing and empowering being released to the world.

On this logo the "curl" of smoke replaces the bottle all together to embody the official debian entity.

-------

Raul

Thats Too bad

[Jakyll]

Sadly the Logo Rob uses in the SLASHDOT header is the best I've seen. It's professional, powerful, and subtle. It says "This is Debian". The swirl says "Rub the lamp and an OS will appear!"