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Ultrasound As a Male Contraceptive

TeslaBoy writes "The BBC has an article about using ultrasound aimed at the testicles as a reversible male contraceptive. This can last for six months. With a grant of $100,000 from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, researchers at the University of North Carolina will push ahead with more clinical trials, fine tuning, and safety tests."

599 comments

  1. A word to the wise: by Narcocide · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't let Microsoft point ultrasonic emitters at your nuts.

    1. Re:A word to the wise: by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least not until after they release the first service pack for it. "Nutrasonic, by Microsoft! Guaranteeing geeks will never reproduce"

    2. Re:A word to the wise: by Kinky+Bass+Junk · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't think you need a contraceptive to stop geeks reproducing...

      --
      Anonymous Coward
    3. Re:A word to the wise: by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm so glad there's finally a solution! I'm so tired from outrunning those mobs of horny women lusting for geek guys.

      --
      Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
      altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
    4. Re:A word to the wise: by Garridan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Man. I'm gonna start tin-foiling my nuts. Ultrasound emitters can be made compact enough to hide anywhere. It'd be trivial to hide them under ATM's, seats in public places, etc. This leads to all sorts of spooky eugenics conspiracy scenarios.

    5. Re:A word to the wise: by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      True. But I have a friend who is trying to get her husband to have a vasectomy. I bet this would be a much easier sell. Especially if it comes up after the vasectomy argument.

    6. Re:A word to the wise: by Alphathon · · Score: 4, Informative

      You'll have to try harder than that - this is sound we're talking about, not EM. What you really need to do is cover your nuts in sound-proof foam.

    7. Re:A word to the wise: by cheesybagel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Married people have sex? Who would know.

    8. Re:A word to the wise: by Kinky+Bass+Junk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Marriage is almost a better contraception than being geeky.

      --
      Anonymous Coward
    9. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you're a well-to-do ivy league educated white liberal, you'll be fine. Only undesirables will be targeted.

    10. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't think you need a contraceptive to stop geeks reproducing...

      Yup...Computer games, iPhones, Android phones, GPS devices, FOSS projects, Linux distros, ... (the list goes on) will all do the trick. Of course the effect of those are only temporary. To permanently prevent a geek from reproducing try giving him a Dell laptop and make sure it has a Sony battery.

    11. Re:A word to the wise: by guruevi · · Score: 1

      A vasectomy is much safer, much simpler and lower cost compared to tubal litigation.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    12. Re:A word to the wise: by BagOBones · · Score: 1

      Funny but the ultrasound machines both my children where scanned with where running embedded windows os. I noticed when the dialog came up after they burned a DVD of the video and photos.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    13. Re:A word to the wise: by geekoid · · Score: 5, Informative

      not reliable enough. The dude just needs to get a vasectomy.

      I's a routine procedure. hell, my doctor and I were joking during the procedure.

      Unless he wants to have more kids. That's a completely different discussion.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    14. Re:A word to the wise: by geekoid · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've been married for 20 years and we still have sex a few times a week.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    15. Re:A word to the wise: by Kinky+Bass+Junk · · Score: 5, Funny

      It has to be with each other to count.

      --
      Anonymous Coward
    16. Re:A word to the wise: by Mean+Variance · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The vasectomy fright is so overblown. I had it done 2 months ago. Go to a urologist who has experience (say 1000+ procedures) and does is regularly. The doctor I went to does them all day on Fridays. It's done in 15 minutes. Put an icepack on your nuts and watch some movies and sports for the weekend. Keep the kids away from your midsection. By the following weekend it's pretty much forgotten.

      "Married people don't have sex" is such a tired cliche. If you're in that situation, sorry, that sucks, but it's not supposed to be that way. At age 40 with elementary school kids, I'm glad we made the decision. Plan ahead and put an extra $500 (or whatever your out-of-pocket expense might be) on your company Flex Plan to get it subsidized tax free.

    17. Re:A word to the wise: by winkydink · · Score: 1

      Microsoft? The best sonic birth control is a woman screaming "NO" at the top of her lungs. :)

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    18. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously you have never been married or you would know that that is a filthy lie!

    19. Re:A word to the wise: by cavefrog · · Score: 5, Funny

      "tubal litigation"

      Now that's a scary thought. Is there nothing a lawyer won't do?

    20. Re:A word to the wise: by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 3, Funny

      "You Lie!" - Joe Wilson

    21. Re:A word to the wise: by Cryacin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do they serve beer on your planet too?

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    22. Re:A word to the wise: by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Yep, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no-one's out to zap your nuts.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    23. Re:A word to the wise: by feepness · · Score: 2, Informative

      The vasectomy fright is so overblown. I had it done 2 months ago.

      Mine had done about 1000 as well. Very experienced. Ended up hurting for two straight weeks.

    24. Re:A word to the wise: by EdIII · · Score: 2, Funny

      Microsoft? The best sonic birth control is a woman screaming "NO" at the top of her lungs. :)

      That's 2nd best. Best is laughing while she asks, "is that supposed to be a penis?"

    25. Re:A word to the wise: by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 1

      My laser vasectomy took 15 minutes, didn't hurt, had no side effects, and was covered under basic medical.

      Also, frickin' laser beams.

      --
      I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
    26. Re:A word to the wise: by the_fat_kid · · Score: 4, Funny

      no, really, I recommend Vasectomies to my male friends.
      I've had much worse things done to me at the dentist.
      Yes, I spent three days with a bag of ice in my lap.
      Yes, I whined that "my balls hurt"
      No, I would not have wanted to run a race.
      Worth it? Hell yes.
      Vasectomy plus monogamy plus vigorous sexual relations equals happiness.
      Not that condoms plus polyamory doesn't work for some...

      --
      -- Sig under construction...
    27. Re:A word to the wise: by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Funny

      My laser vasectomy took 15 minutes, didn't hurt, had no side effects, and was covered under basic medical.

      Also, frickin' laser beams.

      But was it performed by a shark?

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    28. Re:A word to the wise: by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only an idiot let's his wife talk him into that. It's hardly unheard of for a woman to get her husband to have the operation then later leave him and decide that she's just finished having kids with him.

      Ultimately it's his body, if she wants to finish things off, perhaps she should have surgery herself. Or is that people own their own bodies stuff only applicable to female bodies?

    29. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pics or it didn't happen.

    30. Re:A word to the wise: by nanoakron · · Score: 1

      Nice catch-22 there - never let a doctor with 1000 cases operate...

    31. Re:A word to the wise: by Dishevel · · Score: 5, Funny

      But was it performed by a shark?

      No. Lawers do not perform vasectomys.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    32. Re:A word to the wise: by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      think you meant without

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    33. Re:A word to the wise: by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 4, Funny

      Lazer beam vasectomy:
      Do you expect me to talk, doctor?

      No sir, I expect you to die!

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    34. Re:A word to the wise: by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      True. But I have a friend who is trying to get her husband to have a vasectomy. I bet this would be a much easier sell. Especially if it comes up after the vasectomy argument.

      I guess it depends on your perspective.

      I've never wanted kids anyway, so I think I'd rather get snipped in one go than have to go in every 6 months to get my nads zapped with ultrasound.

      I'm just saying.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    35. Re:A word to the wise: by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

      wow, I can finally get to post the words Microsoft and nuts in the same sentence and not sound like I am having a rant

    36. Re:A word to the wise: by Petronius · · Score: 1

      or wait until at least version 7 of the stuff.

      --
      there's no place like ~
    37. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blue balls of death.

    38. Re:A word to the wise: by Angst+Badger · · Score: 1

      The vasectomy fright is so overblown.

      Agreed. I didn't quite have the nerve to ask my doctor to let me sit me upright so I could watch the procedure like one of my friends did, but the procedure itself was quite painless, and I was just a little sore for a few days afterward. The worst part was the conversation between my neocortex and my brainstem, where my brainstem was shrieking, "That old guy is cutting open my scrotum!" and my neocortex kept coming up with irreverent jokes about making leather wallets at summer camp.

      But hey, you know what? Ten years later, I still have to worry about contracting STDs, but I don't have to worry about getting anyone pregnant. And quite frankly, if the procedure had involved banging on my nuts with a rubber mallet instead of a quick and painless outpatient procedure, it would have been totally worth it. Though granted, there might have been more screaming at first.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    39. Re:A word to the wise: by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All these comments and no one pointed out how unlikely it is that:

      AmberBlackCat is a guy pretending to be a girl
      AmberBlackCat claims to have a friend
      AmberBlackCat claims that friend is a girl

      Whats the likelyhood of all 3 of those applying to the same person ... ON SLASHDOT?

      Yea, I didn't think so.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    40. Re:A word to the wise: by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Tired cliche?

      Like you'd know, no one on slashdot has touched a girl, let alone gets married to one.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    41. Re:A word to the wise: by az1324 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Might be Microsoft's most successful attempt at stopping self-replicating code.

    42. Re:A word to the wise: by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Informative

      Getting vasectomies reversed is rather trivial and is far easier and safer than tubal ligation.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    43. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's good to know that gay marriages can still have some passion after all of those years.

    44. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Married people don't have sex" is such a tired cliche

      It's a cliche that's about to earn my wife a divorce. She started curtailing it six months after marriage because she was embarrassed that she was getting fat, and it dried up pretty fast. The hell with her; I can fuck my right hand all day and all night for free. BTW if you do find yourself in this situation do yourself a favor: DO NOT CHEAT. Divorce her first - and I mean make sure it's final, certificate in hand and everything. Way too many guys think that separation means they can play the field. Not so.

    45. Re:A word to the wise: by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      If you're a well-to-do ivy league educated white liberal, you'll be fine. Only undesirables will be targeted.

      There are several groups in the US that find well-to-do ivy league educated liberals quite undesirable, and they seem to be the ones with excess firepower...

    46. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wow...you are a selfish one..
      It's hardly unheard of for a man to get his wife to have the operation done for more sex. Only to find out he has another woman on the side....
      What is a 15 min surgery for a man is a much bigger/riskier surgery for a woman. With much more risk of problems in later life leading to a second surgery.
      Unless your a self centered child then it's not a tough choice. Real men step up.
       

    47. Re:A word to the wise: by TheCarp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That ones never good, because its always followed by blood and screaming...

      then next thing you know some kid is kicking open a shitter door and someones being shot to collect some damned reward...

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    48. Re:A word to the wise: by SnowZero · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe he meant catch -22?

    49. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to think this was true too when reading slashdot 10 years ago. But you know what? I grew up and got married. It might surprise you to learn that even geeks get girls eventually.

    50. Re:A word to the wise: by drachenstern · · Score: 1

      More true than you may realize. As others have noted, it's a fifteen minute procedure and come Monday (if done on a Friday) you'll hardly even know it was done (provided there were no complications of course).

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
    51. Re:A word to the wise: by Xaositecte · · Score: 4, Funny

      this took a very dark turn. Seek counseling.

    52. Re:A word to the wise: by mavasplode · · Score: 1

      or wait until at least version 6.1 of the stuff.

      FTFY

      --
      ACTUAL SIZE!!!
    53. Re:A word to the wise: by IICV · · Score: 3, Funny

      No. Lawers do not perform vasectomys.

      Only because they have far more effective methods of castrating you.

    54. Re:A word to the wise: by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      Does it count if his lawyer was in the room?

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    55. Re:A word to the wise: by mjwx · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've been married for 20 years and we still have sex a few times a week.

      I hope your wife doesn't find this out.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    56. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It'd be trivial to hide them under ATM's, seats in public places, etc. This leads to all sorts of spooky eugenics conspiracy scenarios.

      Well, there are already lots of population reduction conspiracies out there. Mostly rich people wanting to reduce the number of poorer people, so they are easier to control.

      What's better than to make those pesky protesters infertile, to ensure only the compliant reproduce. Delivery systems like sound-cannons are already tested and in use.

      Oh, and Bill Gates contributed money for this research; via a foundation that's criticised to make problems of the poor worse.

      Have a nice day ;)

    57. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The shark option does more than just the vasectomy.

    58. Re:A word to the wise: by iamweasel · · Score: 1

      The problem with foam is that with increased insulation the temperature in the nuts will rise. This could potentially lower fertility, so unless you install a cooling system as well...

    59. Re:A word to the wise: by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Marriage is almost a better contraception than being geeky.

      Both apply in my case...no WONDER we're having so much trouble conceiving.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    60. Re:A word to the wise: by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Also, frickin' laser beams.

      But was it performed by a shark?

      No, he had to settle for a mutant sea bass. But at least it was ill-tempered.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    61. Re:A word to the wise: by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Do they serve beer on your planet too?

      Free beer! On his planet, beer is free as in software!

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    62. Re:A word to the wise: by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      No. Lawers do not perform vasectomys.

      True. Why bothering with vasectomies when they can just sue your balls off?

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    63. Re:A word to the wise: by stjobe · · Score: 1

      That's 2nd best. Best is laughing while she asks, "is that supposed to be a penis?"

      I always found that giggling and going "Heh, that looks like a penis, only smaller!" was more effective.

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
    64. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How often I've been laughed at for not wanting a Windows Mobile phone because it don't trust MS enough to wear their product that close to my balls daily.

    65. Re:A word to the wise: by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yeah we all feel drunk after reading every word of a EULA.

    66. Re:A word to the wise: by MancunianMaskMan · · Score: 1

      Plan ahead and put an extra $500 (or whatever your out-of-pocket expense might be)

      or have it done on the NHS. (err, sorry you might not live in the UK. Or the new govt. might cut that part of the service.)

      Put an icepack on your nuts and watch some movies and sports for the weekend.

      | went back to work on a bike after it. It's not about having steel balls, but it can be more or less painful, just pot luck basically according to what the practitioner told me. It wasn't a doctor either, "just" a nurse. And a good one at that. Oh and it was a bloke, all 300lb of him.

    67. Re:A word to the wise: by Zironic · · Score: 3, Informative

      While reversing it is easy enough, about 50% of men who do it remain infertile due to the body becoming hostile to sperm while it was leaking into the body rather going through the channel.

    68. Re:A word to the wise: by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      But they do often have you by the balls.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    69. Re:A word to the wise: by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      1. cat /dev/random /dev/pcaudio
      2. ???
      3. Profit!!

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    70. Re:A word to the wise: by M8e · · Score: 1

      Vasectomy reversals do not always work.

      Found these numbers on the net:

      Years Between Vasectomy Sperm Return
      Under 3 years 97%
      3-8 years 88%
      9-14 years 79%
      Greater than 15 years 71%

    71. Re:A word to the wise: by SomeStupidNickName12 · · Score: 1

      just not with each other?

    72. Re:A word to the wise: by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Nah. It's applicable to both.

      But contraception is a -shared- responsibility for a couple that doesn't want to have kids. What fairly typically happens in a marriage is that the female is on the pill from you start dating, and until you reach the point where you're certain that you do not want any more kids, which often happens around 35.

      I don't think it's all that unfair to ask the male to endure the 15-minutes procedure, and a few days soreness, when you consider the inconvenience and risks associated with taking the pill for 1-2 decades.

      Offcourse the male should never do it, unless he is personally 100% certain that he will not ever want any more kids, not even if the current relationship ends. But that goes for both sexes.

      Also, permanently sterilising females is a slightly more complicated procedure, and carries slightly higher risk of complications than the procedure for males do. Both are routine surgery with fairly low risks, though.

    73. Re:A word to the wise: by ZeroExistenZ · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've been married for 20 years and we still have sex a few times a week.

      But,is she awake during sex?

      --
      I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
    74. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do really wonder though, is sex the same for you?
      And is your spermconsistency the same, or is it just the clear fluid? Or like a dry ending?

    75. Re:A word to the wise: by DeafZombie · · Score: 1

      Well now, a vasectomy with no side effects... Not very effectve is it?

      --
      The Binary Anti-Pattern [http://beyondboolean.blogspot.com/]
    76. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bollocks to that!

    77. Re:A word to the wise: by g253 · · Score: 1

      Un-fucking-believable. Sometimes, I'm really glad to be single. Wow.

    78. Re:A word to the wise: by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      With each other ???

      --
      Squirrel!
    79. Re:A word to the wise: by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      Sex is the same. Better in fact, if you used condoms as contraception previously. Also, your wife knowing she can't get up the duff might make her a little more relaxed over the whereabouts of bodily fluids after the act.

      Semen consistency and appearance identical to before.

      --
      Squirrel!
    80. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      My wife is in the same boat. I think the stories like this that I used to hear before are the reason why the divorce rate is so high in the US. People drift and needs are unmet.

      Of course, my wife won't do shit around the house either, so that's another problem.

    81. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a surprise that Bill gets behind more eugenics programs like this to control the world population so the woken up can't revolt and effect real change.

    82. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally, I can pack my pants with socks and have a plausible explanation when found out.

    83. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Married people don't have sex" is such a tired cliche

      It's a cliche that's about to earn my wife a divorce. She started curtailing it six months after marriage because she was embarrassed that she was getting fat, and it dried up pretty fast. The hell with her; I can fuck my right hand all day and all night for free.

      I was trying to decide if you're an idiot or an ass... then I realized you're both.

    84. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah and those laser knives (at least at the hospital near me) run windows 95. How safe does that operation sound now?

    85. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ultrasound emitters can be made compact enough to hide anywhere

      I have always suspected our HR people have these hidden under they desks, targeted outwards.

    86. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally putting an ultrasound transmitter under the ATM at my nearest Popeye's tonight.

    87. Re:A word to the wise: by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Apparently you haven't watched many Clint Eastwood movies.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    88. Re:A word to the wise: by Combatso · · Score: 0

      I've had much worse things done to me at the dentist. .

      The denstist should not be touching your balls, no matter what he tells you, its not normal.. And if he tells you "you may feel a prick in your moth".... RUN

    89. Re:A word to the wise: by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Maybe AmberBlackCat is a 500lb basement dwelling furry, his friend is an (possibly imaginary) zoophile and his friend's "husband" is actually his parents' soon to be fixed golden retriever.

      Maybe I spend too much time at Encyclopedia Dramatica.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    90. Re:A word to the wise: by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      If you're a well-to-do ivy league educated white liberal, you'll be fine. Only undesirables will be targeted.

      There are several groups in the US that find well-to-do ivy league educated liberals quite undesirable, and they seem to be the ones with excess firepower...

      ...and excess kids compared the ivy-league liberal, too. (Unfortunately for them, those kids get sick of the bullshit, move to the coasts upon graduation to attend college--perhaps an ivy--and only return on Thanksgiving and Christmas. The liberal world can repopulate itself from outside just fine.)

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    91. Re:A word to the wise: by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately anyone can print off an official looking certificate they found on the internets.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    92. Re:A word to the wise: by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      More true than you may realize.

      No, it's exactly as true as I realize. :-P

      I know people who have been snipped - I've researched it, and I've been thinking about it for a couple of years.

      Like I said, I'd rather go in for one snip and a weekend with some discomfort than go in every six months to get the Nap Zapper Ultrasound 9000 applied. That's just pretty low on my list. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    93. Re:A word to the wise: by anegg · · Score: 1

      I have had a vasectomy. Knowing what I know now, I would rather have a vasectomy than have an ultrasonic emmitter bathing my testicles. Remember, if you are choosing to have a vasectomy you are choosing to do so because you want to eliminate the possibility of having active sperm. Just like information security works better with an air gap, so sterilization probably works better with a vast gap in the vas deferens.

    94. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blue Balls Of Death

    95. Re:A word to the wise: by c++0xFF · · Score: 1

      Soviet Russia has its own planet?

    96. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly the type of propaganda they are going to spread to get us. An extra layer of tin foil for both the nuts and brain, I say.

    97. Re:A word to the wise: by Dalzhim · · Score: 1

      You forgot "together"... Are you trying to evade the question?

    98. Re:A word to the wise: by Dalzhim · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention "together"... Are you trying to evade the question?

    99. Re:A word to the wise: by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      He should just tell her to get her tubes tide if he doesn't want one. We hear women whine about how it is major surgery, well, it isn't 1950 any more. These days it is a 30 minute procedure and the woman is back home the same day.

      It amazes me how many people don't question the absurd statement that it is major surgery. The fact that women get breast implants through their belly buttons should have been tip off that they might be able to do the same with Tubal ligation.

      There is nothing wrong with vasectomies if HE is done breeding and HE is comfortable with it, but if your friend is trying to convince him to have the procedure because SHE is done breeding WITH HIM, and she wants him changed in a way that she is unwilling to do herself, then she is just a bitch.

    100. Re:A word to the wise: by AZScotsman · · Score: 1

      I've been married for 20 years and we still have sex a few times a week.

      Please define "we".... You and your wife? Together or separately?

    101. Re:A word to the wise: by Xaositecte · · Score: 1

      Little before my time.

      I'll get off your lawn :P.

    102. Re:A word to the wise: by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Obligatory Idiocracy:

      "I like money".
      "Ow my BAWLS!"

      --
      ~X~
    103. Re:A word to the wise: by joggle · · Score: 1

      He could be or perhaps not--if you go long enough without sex and have any sort of sex drive at all you aren't going to generally have a positive attitude towards your partner.

      Women divorce men due to lack of sex as well.

      Who in the world wants to get married and then never have sex again?

      However, if he loves her at all I'd recommend trying marriage counseling first. There's various treatable psychological disorders that cause low libido and similar behavior.

    104. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that's what those crotch things the guys from A Clockwork Orange wore are for!

    105. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's your body and vasectomy does not provide similar protection against STDs as a correctly used condom. What a fucking sociopath would ask for his or hers better half to have an possibly risky operation performed just to have more sex? Also, giving up reproductive capability early without a valid medical reason is irresponsible, in my opinion.

    106. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or shoot blanks.

    107. Re:A word to the wise: by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      Only an idiot let's his wife talk him into that. ... Or is that people own their own bodies stuff only applicable to female bodies?

      You can talk someone into (or out of) an abortion, I don't know why a vasectomy would be any different.

      On the other hand, it is a good idea to make it clear that the person being operated on is the person who gets to make the decision, and that other people need to respect their choice.

    108. Re:A word to the wise: by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      Wow...you are a selfish one..
      He was a bit crude about it, and might have exaggerated the lack of choice involved, but wanting to make your own medical decisions isn't really "selfish".

      What is a 15 min surgery for a man is a much bigger/riskier surgery for a woman. With much more risk of problems in later life leading to a second surgery.
      You're right, that's a very important point, and something every reasonable person should consider when making this kind of decision.

      Unless your a self centered child then it's not a tough choice. Real men step up.
      Now that's just messed up - insulting, sexist shaming that's just a repackaged version of "shut up and do as you're told". I always hoped that that kind of BS would die off as women were treated more equally, but it seems to have simply targeted the opposite sex, traded "whore" and "virtuous lady" for "child" and "real man", and kept right on going.

    109. Re:A word to the wise: by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Before your time? I mean, isn't he still making movies?

      The Unforgiven came out in 1992 (thats the movie whose plot involved a prostitute being cut up by a man whose penis she laughed at, which the other prostitutes respond to by putting a bounty on the mans head, a bounty that William Money (clint eastwood) intends to collect)

      It is indeed quite a dark movie (and well done), and highly recommended... and I don't even typically like Westerns or Eastwood movies in general, but Unforgiven was well worth it (Also featuring Morgan Freeman, and Gene Hackman)

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    110. Re:A word to the wise: by the_fat_kid · · Score: 1

      oh, shit.
      that's the funniest thing I have read all week.
      thank you.
      I hope the mods are kind to you.

      --
      -- Sig under construction...
    111. Re:A word to the wise: by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > Also, giving up reproductive capability early without a valid medical reason is irresponsible, in my opinion.

      Why? It's not like we're running out of humans. Who exactly do we have this repsonsibility to stay fertile to?

    112. Re:A word to the wise: by Xaositecte · · Score: 1

      in 1992, I had yet to enter Elementary School, so the Unforgiven wouldn't be the kind of movie I'd have been watching.

      I might end up checking it out though.

    113. Re:A word to the wise: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To ourselves. Suppose your significant other dies in a accident or from a disease. You find a new, younger partner who wants children of her own. Your children from the previous marriage are likely of sufficient age to be relatively independent, or might die prematurely for some reason as well. That would be one scenario. Granted, I did contradict myself as I first declared the individual's ownership of the body and then made a rather collectivist assertion related to the fertility.

  2. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stay away from my nuts!

  3. Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 5, Funny

    >> ultrasound aimed at the testicles

    That just sounds nuts!

    1. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

      You win the Internets!

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    2. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by risma2006 · · Score: 1

      That's a very huge cost for ultrasound aimed at the testicles

    3. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, this is the first thing they do if there's any suspicion of testicular cancer. I had some aches and pains and a little lump on Rightie, so I was sent off right away to have a scrotal ultrasound.

      Does anyone know if/how that sort of diagnostic ultrasound differs from this? They didn't say ANYTHING to me about it affecting fertility.

    4. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by geekoid · · Score: 1, Funny

      It's certainly a ballsy form of contraception.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Internuts

    6. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had some aches and pains and a little lump on Rightie, so I was sent off right away to have a scrotal ultrasound.

      Your testicles have names? How cute!

    7. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> ultrasound aimed at the testicles

      That just sounds nuts!

      FEELS GOOD MAN

    8. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by Hadlock · · Score: 2, Insightful

      -They didn't say ANYTHING to me about it affecting fertility.
       
      Simply wearing tight pants/underwear affects your fertility. What on earth made you think an ultrasound would improve your fertility in any way?

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    9. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> ultrasound aimed at the testicles

      That just sounds nuts!

      Or the newest fad in male vibrators...

    10. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Does anyone know if/how that sort of diagnostic ultrasound differs from this? They didn't say ANYTHING to me about it affecting fertility.

      The threat of reduced/lost fertility is minimal compared to that of testicular cancer.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 1

      I'm no oncologist, or even a urologist, but I imagine testicular cancer would affect your fertility a great deal more than ultrasound. Also, by the sound of it, this ultrasound method is not permanent. Drinking beer, tight briefs and long car journeys are probably more of a concern than the few minutes a diagnostic ultrasound would take..

    12. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by epyx · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is the first thing they do if there's any suspicion of testicular cancer. I had some aches and pains and a little lump on Rightie, so I was sent off right away to have a scrotal ultrasound.

      Does anyone know if/how that sort of diagnostic ultrasound differs from this? They didn't say ANYTHING to me about it affecting fertility.

      This is therapeutic ultrasound normally used in sports injuries and such. It sends out the sound waves in frequencies that are way different than in diagnostic ultrasound. Therapeutic ultrasound has a direct effect on cells, whether vibrating them enough to trigger an inflammatory response or vibrating them at a certain wavelength to cause cells to heat up.

      Either way, not something I want aimed at my ballsack.

    13. Re:Ultrasound Aimed at the Testicles by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I had some aches and pains and a little lump on Rightie, so I was sent off right away to have a scrotal ultrasound.

      Your testicles have names? How cute!

      Yes. The other one is called Todd.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  4. Re:First Post by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hope it's more effective than your first post attempts or somebody will be calling you Daddy soon ;)

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  5. Re:First Post by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Funny

    You are on /. , I don't think anyone of us has to worry about birth control. On the other hand, Microsoft having access to people's nuts... That could be worrying.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  6. Re:First Post by quickpick · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just want to say, NOT HAPPENING. I'm happy using abstinence as a contraceptive. 100% effective. (:

    I agree, keeping it in your pants sounds a lot easier than someone pointing something at your boys and saying "this might tingle a little..."

  7. Ultrasound? by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Funny

    Jesus fucking Christ, why didn't I HEAR about this earlier?

    1. Re:Ultrasound? by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Flamebait? Yikes, where are the technically inclined people on this site now, can you HEAR the ultrasound? sigh.

    2. Re:Ultrasound? by afaik_ianal · · Score: 1

      Flamebait? Has a mod been smoking crack again, or does this comment have some other level I'm not getting?

    3. Re:Ultrasound? by mog007 · · Score: 1

      Maybe the mod itself is going to initiate a flamewar. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    4. Re:Ultrasound? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      I used to play guitar in bars. I thought I only had to worry about my hearing.

      On another note, I did some work on a pilot scale silicon smelter (6 MW). The furnace had a closed lid and when we shut it down after a test run we had to send guys in with jack hammers and a ten inch wide hose from a sucker truck to empty the furnace out before the next run (about ten or fifteen feet diameter by ten feet tall inside). The hose was a hard plastic and until they learned to tape a bare copper wire down the length of it, it generated enough static from the dry furnace material being sucked up it to cause large painful electricity arcs if they hit you. The electric arcs would jump one or two feet from various places along the length of the hose... like a big Van der Graaf generator, and usually hit you in the leg or arm feeling like you were hit with a bat and momentarily paralyzing the part (more from the pain of the intense muscle contractions from the electric shock I suspect). One time, one of the arcs, a particularly big one, jumped a good two feet from the hose and nailed a guy right in the nuts. It hit him like someone swung a bat into his groin. He doubled up and keeled over right there. He was worried for about two or three months that he was only going to shoot blanks from then on (nothing to do with us giving giving him a hard time or anything ;-). He came in smiling and all happy one day and said it was all OK, everything worked, his wife was pregnant. Now they were trying to have a baby for a few months before this happened, and thinking on it, it did take several more months to get there after he was zapped... now maybe if we did a study where the participants agreed to get a smallish lightning bolt to the balls they might discover they have another contraceptive method for men. I'm not volunteering.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  8. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    rofl

    It is definitely more effective. ;)

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  9. Ultrasonic Ball Tag everybody! by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    ZAP! . . . you're it!

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  10. I'll need something a little more definite... by Sepultura · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This can last for six months.

    There are a number of areas in my life where YMMV is fine, and I'll take the risk, but I don't think contraception will be one of them.

    1. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had thought about that too. It would take several weeks before it "kicked in" because of the lag time for sperm production. Shut down your testicles tomorrow and you'll still be fertile until the stored sperm in the epididymis is used up. Given that, I don't see this method as being particularly popular unless you can keep "zapping" the testicles to ensure they don't resume sperm production. If they do then you are looking at another few weeks of having to use alternate birth control methods and in that case what's the damn point?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Not unnecessarily. You could probably get yourself shooting blanks in about a day(from what I hear).

    3. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Kneo24 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's really no different than what women have to go through with their birth control methods. Each method is different, but if they miss it once they generally have to wait like... a month for it to work.

    4. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by cynyr · · Score: 4, Funny

      Shut down your testicles tomorrow and you'll still be fertile until the stored sperm in the epididymis is used up.

      Thats the second part of the "service" a blond Scandinavian woman to ensure that the "stored sperm in the epididymis is used up"

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    5. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      If they do then you are looking at another few weeks of having to use alternate birth control methods and in that case what's the damn point?

      Er, because after that few week period you then only need to get it done every, say, 3-4 months ?

    6. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Luke+has+no+name · · Score: 1

      I get the feeling they'll peg down a hard number before releasing the product on the public.

    7. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      if it only knocked out new production that would be true, but it seems to me like it would kill the already existent sperm as well.

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    8. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 3, Funny

      Thats the second part of the "service" a blond Scandinavian woman to ensure that the "stored sperm in the epididymis is used up"

      "I'm sorry, Mr. Gunderson, but you really don't need to come in for a treatment every day."

      --
      This ain't rocket surgery.
    9. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except the pill increases chance for heart attack. yatta yatta hormones, blah blah.

    10. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by izomiac · · Score: 2, Informative

      Spermatogenesis, the process by which sperm mature from the dividing germ cells you were born with to the swimmers with which you're familiar, takes 64 days. If you kill all your [im]mature sperm then you are sterile for that period of time, and have reduced fertility for a little beyond that as your sperm count recovers. (I've no idea about the variation on that figure, but that's how I've always seen it presented, never "two months".) My initial impression was that the sound waves accomplished this, but that wouldn't explain sterility for the remaining four months.

      I'm reminded of Gossypol, which was investigated as a potential male contraceptive pill. It's a toxin that damages the seminiferous epithelium, so no sperm are able to mature. Perhaps an ultrasound could do the same... Unfortunately, it turns out that it was a little too effective, and if your sperm count hit zero then the damage was too severe and regeneration wasn't possible, leading to permanent sterility. It seems plausible that damage by any other means would be similar...

      That said, you sperm count doesn't need to hit zero for an effective contraceptive. Of the ~100 - 500 million sperm per shot, 90% are normally viable but only about 1000 of those make it to the egg, and collaborative effort is necessary to penetrate it. OTOH, I suppose you could be ungodly "lucky" and impregnate a woman with a sperm count in the thousands, but that's probably not worth considering (although it is a reason that it wouldn't be 100% effective).

    11. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple advice: Never ever rely on a single method of contraception.
      We're geeks, we should understand basic probability theory.
      Use a IUD and a condom, the pill and a femidom, or now, blast your balls and use a condom.

    12. Re:I'll need something a little more definite... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I don't think this is geared toward parts of the world where birth control is routinely available and is generally reliable. Rather, it's aimed at 3rd world countries where contraception is either unavailable or "unmanly" (thus simply isn't done), yet the population growth is out of control. Getting a good chunk of the young virile males to agree to getting their balls zapped a couple times a year could do a lot toward slowing population growth in those areas.

      Might also be useful for teenagers whose "stop and think" node hasn't activated yet.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  11. Involuntary response. by Zarjazz · · Score: 4, Funny

    So was I the only one who crossed their legs while reading the story?

    1. Re:Involuntary response. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, don't know. Whose legs did you cross?

    2. Re:Involuntary response. by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Pretty much I think, this is ultrasound, not microwave or gamma rays.

      Of-course on this site, the correct response, that could prompt pointless leg crossing is always to "nuke em from the orbit, it's the only way to be sure".

    3. Re:Involuntary response. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I tried to. But the damn desk is too low and I couldn't.

    4. Re:Involuntary response. by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      I know you try to be PC and all, but I think you can get away with gendered language on this one ...

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    5. Re:Involuntary response. by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      Maybe he was referring to the researchers at the University of North Carolina?

    6. Re:Involuntary response. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this is /.

      You are the only one who read the story.

    7. Re:Involuntary response. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading the story?

    8. Re:Involuntary response. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were probably the only one who read the story.

  12. adjudin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://malecontraceptives.org/methods/adjudin.php It is very effective and most importantly safe. You only need an injection of it every few months, and it is bound to an inactive version of the FSH hormone that only gets picked up by one place in the body, the testes. It is perfect and I want it now!

  13. How did they discover this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder what the original researchers were thinking to discover this. Sounds like a close intimate moment with pregnant mother and unborn baby went a bit, ahem, south.

  14. Sign me up! by CasualFriday · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If this is cheap and effective, it sounds like a good decision. If you're in a monogamous relationship, say bye-bye to condoms! You also don't have to subject your female partner to a birth control regimen, which throws her hormones out of whack and can have all kinds of terrible side effects like migraines, random menstrual flow, etc.

    --
    Raters gon' rate.
    1. Re:Sign me up! by Third+Position · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well... after you, Kimosabe!

      --
      American Third Position
      Finally, a real choice!
    2. Re:Sign me up! by QuantumG · · Score: 0, Troll

      Little known fact: for about the last 10 years there's been implants available that completely eliminate the female menstrual cycle. This is completely reversible and requires no surgery (the implant is just injected in the arm). So every time you have to put up with a woman with PMT, understand that you are enduring it because they're either ignorant or negligent.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:Sign me up! by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      random menstrual flow

      Don't most hormonal birth control methods stabilize the timing of the menses? An ex of mine had very irregular periods (2-4 months between them) until she started using hormonal birth control. After that she could set her watch by the timing.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:Sign me up! by Kneo24 · · Score: 1

      That depends on the woman. I've known woman to have irregular cycles and be complete and utter sex hating bitches where I'd rather kill myself than put up with their bullshit for another second while on hormonal BC. Fortunately most women aren't like this.

    5. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you're in a monogamous relationship, say bye-bye to condoms

      And say hello to AIDS, you naive fool who thought fidelity still existed.

    6. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Pro Tip: some women will "forget" to take contraception to trap the male into a relationship and/or providing for her offspring. Male contraception is the only way to be sure. Not flamebait or troll, absolutely 100% true.

    7. Re:Sign me up! by porcupine8 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wow, this has to be one of the most misogynistic comments I've ever seen on Slashdot - and that's saying a lot.

      Here, I will pretend like you're not a total douche, merely ignorant, and try to explain things politely:

      The implant is hormonal birth control. Many women cannot take HBC, or only some HBC, due to extreme side effects such as depression or mood swings, weight gain, and heavy bleeding. Only some women stop getting their period on the implant - up to 20% actually have heavier periods than before. Also, HBC puts you at higher risk of clotting problems (such as heart attacks, strokes, and embolisms), which means that women with other risk factors may want to avoid it. And women on certain medications, such as anti-epileptics, can't use the implant.

      Other women may simply prefer other forms of birth control for other reasons. For example, some women actually appreciate getting a "Hey, you're still not pregnant" reminder every month. Some are uncomfortable with getting something implanted in their body. While their preferences may inconvenience you, it is far from "negligent" for them to make that decision for themselves.

      Perhaps if you feel you are having to "endure" your significant other, you should let her know that. In those exact words. I'm sure she'll be refreshed by your honesty and see you in a completely new light, and will happily rearrange her biology for your convenience.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    8. Re:Sign me up! by QuantumG · · Score: 1, Troll

      Obviously *I* don't. But frankly, there isn't a man alive who understands or appreciates female PMT and the fact that there are *numerous* treatments available for this condition, *some* of which are effective at eliminating the condition completely, and women choose not to take them is, I think, more than sufficient reason for us to be disgusted, just as women are towards men who refuse to use deodorant, or as the majority of us are towards the mentally ill who refuse to stay on their meds.

      The human condition is flawed and can be improved. Each of us has a responsibility to the rest of society to do what we can to make it a little more pleasant to be around each other, or risk being ostracized.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    9. Re:Sign me up! by porcupine8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fact that you are "disgusted" by the mentally ill who "refuse" to stay on their meds says a whole lot about your levels of ignorance (and douchiness), as does the fact that you think that's a majority opinion. Just keep digging that hole.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    10. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lesser known fact (unless you know a woman who's had these implants): They almost ALWAYS end up causing so many side effects that the woman has the implant removed before the scheduled 3 years. Random cycles, constant menstrual bleeding, weight gain, random effect on the libido (it can go way up or way down), and last but certainly not least, bad psychological effects (unpredictable mood swings, depression, paranoia).

      The damage is caused by the medical ass-covering practice of listing every ailment ever reported by anyone while taking the drug as a possible side effect. You get a laundry list of symptoms of every possible thing, and then the doctor says "...but that hardly ever happens and it's very safe, we just legally have to tell you that stuff." And so the doctor gets his commission, and six months later when the woman's having random bad side effects they get the implant taken out. I wonder what happens to the reports (if any are even recorded) of these side effects?

    11. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously *I* don't. But frankly, there isn't a man alive who understands or appreciates female PMT and the fact that there are *numerous* treatments available for this condition, *some* of which are effective at eliminating the condition completely, and women choose not to take them is, I think, more than sufficient reason for us to be disgusted, just as women are towards men who refuse to use deodorant, or as the majority of us are towards the mentally ill who refuse to stay on their meds.

      Spew of drivel, consider revising.

    12. Re:Sign me up! by Shikaku · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Completely true story:

      I broke up with my girlfriend a few weeks before my vacation. I have a high sex drive and she knew about this. She also knew that I masturbate into paper towels sometimes and throw them away when I'm lazy because my room is far from my bathroom. When I went on vacation I forgot to take out the trash... And I came in to my house to find it broken into with all my trash scattered around and a voicemail saying thanks for the child...

      =|

      Of course it didn't work but still, WTF.

    13. Re:Sign me up! by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not only his opinion. I'm disgusted by those who, despite being advised 15 times to do so by their doctor and 15 more times by the label, stop taking antibiotics after they "feel a little better" and don't complete the whole round. That's largely how drug resistant strains get made. That affects everyone, not just you. Refusing to cooperate with mental illness treatment is also problematic, and not only for you.

      So, yes, if you have a condition that affects not only you but those around you, and it is treatable, get it the fuck treated and cooperate with the treatment. After 7 years or so with someone who turned out to have a personality disorder, and only halfway cooperated with the treatment on and off, and having to do that yo-yo until I finally had enough, I can tell you that otherwise you will make those around you miserable.

      Now, of course, if the treatment is likely to cause you to throw a clot because of preexisting disorders, that's a totally different thing. That's true no matter what drug we're talking about. But if, as in the vast majority, there is no significant risk because of no preexisting problem, take it.

      Now, don't get me wrong. I believe strongly in the integrity of the body, and that you have the right to refuse treatment. But others have the right to refuse to have anything to do with you if you do.

      That, however, gets to my own suspicion-that "PMT" often means "I'm in a bad mood and want to get away with behaving badly". I can't tell you how often I'll see people who are perfectly capable of controlling themselves at work during the day, only to hear about what a holy terror they become once they go home. Obviously they are capable of controlling themselves, since they do after all retain a job. From there, it's just a copout-if you can control yourself, why wouldn't you above all do it with your loved ones?

      You can call me misogynist, if you want to. I'm not, but I don't particularly care if you think otherwise. I believe strongly in equal rights for both genders-but exactly equal. No special favors, no special treatment, no monthly excuse for bad behavior. Men don't get those, so that can hardly be asserted as an "equal" right. It's not "misogynist" to think people of any gender should be held equally accountable for their decisions and behavior.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    14. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I had a girlfriend who said she was on birth control. One time after sex she put a pillow under her butt. When asked why, she told me that gravity would help the sperm reach the egg. Then she explained that she was ovulating right then. Apparently she had been planning this with the help of a doctor.

      I spent the next couple months in horror thinking she had been successful. That day was burned into my memory as the day my life was ruined. I couldn't stand the girl any more and she knew it. That was why she did it.

      She taunted me by coming around about once a month asking if I wanted to have sex. Of course I didn't, she knew that and was rubbing it in. Then I realized the timing. Once a month. When I looked at the calendar it was once every 28 days. It didn't work the first time so she was trying to get more chances to get knocked up with the (hopefully expensive) help of her doctor!

      I can only be thankful that she is as stupid as a James Bond villian. If she didn't tell me her plan before getting knocked up she could have been successful.

    15. Re:Sign me up! by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      Not taking antibiotics and not being properly treated for a mental disorder are two ENTIRELY different things. Having an infection does not render you less capable of making rational decisions about your own treatment. Many mental illnesses do - and not just the way-out-there ones, either. Should those people get treatment? Of course. If it's unhealthy for their loved ones to be around them when they're not treated, should those loved ones do what's healthy for themselves? Of course. But saying that you're "disgusted" by something that is a god damned symptom of the illness in and of itself is disgusting.

      I believe strongly in equal rights for both genders-but exactly equal. No special favors, no special treatment, no monthly excuse for bad behavior. Men don't get those, so that can hardly be asserted as an "equal" right. It's not "misogynist" to think people of any gender should be held equally accountable for their decisions and behavior.

      No, it's misogynistic to ignore biology and claim that accepting it is "special treatment." Do you think that women who have pre-menstrual problems enjoy them? Many women do go on birth control specifically to avoid those problems! But to say, as the grandparent did, that ANY woman who has this problem and is not fixing with through HBC is "negligent" is to completely ignore the fact that for some women it is not treatable or the treatment is worse for them than the condition.

      Why is the male experience the default that women must try to match in your scenario? I would say that it's special fucking treatment for a man to expect the women in his life to ignore hormonal problems that he will never have to experience or try to ignore so that they can live up to his ideal. Why does he deserve for her to do that when he will never do it for her?

      Yes, there are probably women out there who use their periods as an excuse to act extra bitchy when they don't really need to. Just like there are men who use their wives' premenstrual touchiness as an excuse to cheat on her. Both are examples of unethical behavior. But if you really think that that's the norm instead of an anomaly, you should just go say a little prayer, or thank your lucky stars, or whatever you do that you will never experience the hormonal hell that many women have to deal with on a regular basis. Be glad things aren't equal in that regard.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    16. Re:Sign me up! by ethicalcannibal · · Score: 1

      I don't normally reply on this site, but I just had to say I love you for your series of posts here. Very well thought out, and well said. It's nice to see some of these ridiculous ill informed opinions put down.

    17. Re:Sign me up! by laughingcoyote · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not taking antibiotics and not being properly treated for a mental disorder are two ENTIRELY different things. Having an infection does not render you less capable of making rational decisions about your own treatment. Many mental illnesses do - and not just the way-out-there ones, either. Should those people get treatment? Of course. If it's unhealthy for their loved ones to be around them when they're not treated, should those loved ones do what's healthy for themselves? Of course. But saying that you're "disgusted" by something that is a god damned symptom of the illness in and of itself is disgusting.

      Not every mental illness leaves one a raving lunatic incapable of any comprehension of reality, and despite how dramatic such cases are, they are actually a very small fraction. Most people who are mentally ill still have the capacity to understand that something is wrong and that treatment will help. I'm not talking about people who are totally out of touch with reality, as chances are that they are not receiving their treatment on a voluntary basis anyway.

      But to say, as the grandparent did, that ANY woman who has this problem and is not fixing with through HBC is "negligent" is to completely ignore the fact that for some women it is not treatable or the treatment is worse for them than the condition.

      You'll note that in what I said, I specifically acknowledged there are people for whom the treatment is not appropriate, and never restated or agreed with the "negligent" statement. Obviously, if the treatment is likely to kill you, you are hardly "negligent" for not taking it. But that's only true in a small fraction of cases.

      Why is the male experience the default that women must try to match in your scenario? I would say that it's special fucking treatment for a man to expect the women in his life to ignore hormonal problems that he will never have to experience or try to ignore so that they can live up to his ideal. Why does he deserve for her to do that when he will never do it for her?

      Why do some people seem to have this concept that men are emotionless robots? Sleep deprivation, stress, aging, life events, and, yes, hormones, can all have a tremendous impact on the male (and female, of course) psyche. Hormones are far from the only thing that can cause an adverse emotional state.

      Certainly for me, I've had days where I've gotten up, or gotten home, and been in a tremendously foul mood for some reason. But I make myself aware of that, and make sure I vent to my fiance about whatever's wrong, and never vent on her. I do expect that of myself, and I certainly try to live up to it, because I care greatly about her. I don't expect anything of her that I would not and have not done for her.

      She's done the same with me, whether what's getting to her is difficulty from her period or a bad day at work. I do acknowledge that some men do have a highly irrational fear of hearing anything remotely related to menstruation, and I don't understand why that is. It's one of thousands of totally natural biological processes that happen every day. But as far as what she does about trouble from it, she does the exact same-if it's got her feeling like hell, she'll say so, and I'll listen and do what I can to help her feel better. But I wouldn't accept her taking it out on me, any more then she'd accept me taking my bad days out on her. I don't think either of us should accept that, because it is not acceptable behavior.

      Yes, there are probably women out there who use their periods as an excuse to act extra bitchy when they don't really need to. Just like there are men who use their wives' premenstrual touchiness as an excuse to cheat on her. Both are examples of unethical behavior. But if you really think that that's the norm instead of an anomaly, you should just go say a little prayer, or thank your lucky stars, or whatever you do that yo

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    18. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe you didn't post that as an AC.

      The balls on this guy, eh?

      Also, I don't believe you. At all.

    19. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TMI dude.

    20. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say that as if men didn't do the same. I was nailing my wife regularly for four years until we married, all the time we used the pulling out method.

      As soon as I started "forgetting" to pull out on time, she got pregnant.

      All the stories you read about a single sperm cell going Rambo on a woman are absolute bullshit. Several million vs what less than a hundred?

      When you think about it and do the maths it is pretty clear - the people getting their wives pregnant, assuming no foul play on the woman's side, are blowing all or a significant part of their load into the playing field.

    21. Re:Sign me up! by Shikaku · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The truth is stranger than fiction. I'm also tired of women always playing the victim when they can be just as malicious and stupid as men.

    22. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... I guess Bounty® really IS the "quicker-picker-upper"?

    23. Re:Sign me up! by dontbgay · · Score: 1

      And say hello to AIDS, you naive fool who thought fidelity still existed.

      Just because you have a poor choice in a mate doesn't mean it applies to the majority. And if it's not from first-hand experience, why are you peddling this tripe as if it's a fact? Regardless, that world view comes from the people you choose to trust. There are some who are a little more selective... Or careful.. Depending on your values.

      --
      Sig not found.
    24. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hm, I'm not sure I understand what happened, can't establish the cause-effect link.

      Was she the one who broke into the house?
      Did she use one of your unwashed towels and that lead to a pregnancy?

    25. Re:Sign me up! by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      Won't work. Not unless you live somewhere freezing cold. Under ideal circumstances (in the uterus) the sperm cells will last 5 days or less. In the trash, maybe a day before it dries out, perhaps even sooner on warm days.

      Your g/friend is not pregnant with your child - demand a paternity test if she says she is.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    26. Re:Sign me up! by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      There isn't a drug yet discovered that doesn't have side effects. As such, every decision to medicate yourself ought to be preceded by a careful cost-benefit analysis. Whether that's, "I'd rather be irritable than risk blood clots," or "I'd rather hear voices than not be able to experience pleasure," it's not your place to judge.

    27. Re:Sign me up! by digitalsushi · · Score: 1

      The odds are low that she's being subjected to hormone therapies that have birth control as a side effect, since a significant portion of females use it to relieve symptoms such as cramping and to reduce ovarian cysts. She does it for herself to keep healthy.

      You sound like a porn addict subjugating fantasy to reality.

      --
      slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
    28. Re:Sign me up! by Amlothi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you might want to look into getting that implant...

      Here, I will pretend like you're not a total douche, merely ignorant, and try to explain things politely:

      Perhaps if you feel you are having to "endure" your significant other, you should let her know that. In those exact words. I'm sure she'll be refreshed by your honesty and see you in a completely new light, and will happily rearrange her biology for your convenience.

      --
      ~A~
    29. Re:Sign me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just, you know, try guys. If you're that bothered by how females work, maybe your batting for the wrong team?

    30. Re:Sign me up! by makomk · · Score: 1

      Supposedly the idea that women try and get pregnant in order to force their partner to stay with them is an evil, mysogynistic myth. However, men getting their female partner pregnant in order to force her to stay with them is a serious problem, and a form of domestic violence called reproductive coercion. I think I've been spending too long around feminists.

    31. Re:Sign me up! by Hells+Ranger · · Score: 1

      Yes you are spending too much with over the top feminist. Both gender can be stupid and petty it's not the sole province of men or women.

      For the women to try to trap a guy by getting pregnant, I believe it happen fairly often. Why? Because even if the guy quit she can ask and get from the justice system quite a bundle of money from him, because she's having 'his' kid.

      For the opposite, the man trying to trap a woman by having his kid, it could also happen. But there's way to prevent that from happening. If she don't want it to happen, she can prevent it. If she can't stop him it's called rape. And there law for that. After the fact there also a few options : morning after pill, abortion and adoption.

    32. Re:Sign me up! by makomk · · Score: 1

      But there's way to prevent that from happening. If she don't want it to happen, she can prevent it. If she can't stop him it's called rape.

      You're failing to take into account a couple of things. Firstly, the possibility of tampering with contraception in order to make it ineffective. Secondly, the really crappy way the police handle rapes by an intimate partner.

    33. Re:Sign me up! by WNight · · Score: 1

      there are men who [... cheat because of PMT symptoms]

      there are probably women out there who

      Only probably huh? Got a few of your own biases...

      Why is the male experience the default that women must try to match in your scenario?

      ROFL. You'd be one of those deaf people asking why the hearing way of life is the default.

      And it's not the male experience, it's the human experience. Without pain we're happier and nicer to be around. If a 100% effective menstrual pain-pill was available would you criticize it for offering the male experience, or praise it for allowing you to experience your female experience unhindered?

      No, it's misogynistic to ignore biology and claim that accepting it is "special treatment."

      No, it's factual. People in wheelchairs need ramps but that doesn't mean it's not special treatment.

      If the issue was a man with a hormonal anger problem would you be as willing to cut him slack?

      But to say, as the grandparent did, that ANY woman who has this problem and is not fixing with through HBC is "negligent" is to completely ignore the fact that for some women it is not treatable or the treatment is worse for them than the condition.

      But for those who know about it, could take it, would benefit from it, and need it - they would be negligent in not doing so, right?

      He listed ignorant as an option and considering the number of women who don't know about menstrual cups I'd imagine that's a big category.

      Anyways, he also said "if you have to put up with" - he's only talking about people who need help. If your friends/loved ones aren't bitching you're probably okay.

      go say a little prayer

      What could that possibly help?

    34. Re:Sign me up! by WNight · · Score: 1

      it's not your place to judge.

      That's lunacy. Might not be my place to act, but telling me not to have an opinion is rude and ludicrous.

  15. if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ...I might consider it. There's no more selfish act in the world than having your own children.

    1. Re:if 'twere permanent... by geekoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      With that attitude I don't think you need to worry about having kids.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      Agreed! No sex for me with my girlfriend unless we're using effective contraception. Which we are, so it's all good.

    3. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How are children a selfish act?

      Continue the species, taxpayers for social programs, potential to do something great, etc

    4. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're mischaracterising nature. More organisms means more intra-specific competition (inter-specific is bothersome too, if you're environmentalist). Free minds and/or those chained by instinct are, by and large, not altruistic.

      There are lots of underprivileged/dying people you could help if you wanted to "continue the species", farm "taxpayers for social programs", or help fulfil "potential to do something great".

      If you want kids, have kids, but don't deny that it's the supremely selfish act.

    5. Re:if 'twere permanent... by hamburger+lady · · Score: 4, Funny

      There's no more selfish act in the world than having your own children.

      not when my children are better than you! my 16 month old is already doing calculus. it's in the form of spaghetti, so it takes some interpreting, but it's there.

      --

      ---
      Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
    6. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you want kids, have kids, but don't deny that it's the supremely selfish act.

      Maybe for you. I can think of nothing more selfish than to deny the awesomeness of my genes to future generations ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    7. Re:if 'twere permanent... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Do you have a vasectomy? if not your just a lot of bluster.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    9. Re:if 'twere permanent... by cgenman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How is that "the" supremely selfish act compared to, say, dumping toxic waste on 3rd world water supplies in order to save a buck? Or buying up a business, raiding the pension fund, and selling off the parts for profit while thousands of people wonder where their job and retirement went? Or abusing your status as a police officer in order to get a sad power kick?

      Having a kid basically means devoting very large chunks of your life to someone else. You're giving up 2 years of doing anything, 3 further years of any daytime activities, then 15 years of having control over your own life. And why? So you can create a life that will hopefully go off into the wild and make society a better place.

      Some people want to help a million people a little bit. A lot of people want to help one or two people a whole lot. Is it "supremely selfish" because it is something they want to do? Does this now mean that the only selfless acts that matter are the acts of self-flagellation that nobody wants to do? In the kinds of developed countries that post on slashdot, the birthrate generally has fallen below 1 child per 1 person. Clearly the problem can't be overpopulation, at least not here.

      Really, the only way raising children could be considered "the supremely selfish act" is if you start from the position that human beings are bad, and more human beings are more bad. We have enough food to feed everybody currently, we're just terrible at distributing it. We have enough water for now. And peak oil is happening one way or another. Arguably, we'll be off of the oil standard faster the more scientists we can raise. And again, if you don't count immigration the population of most developed countries is declining.

    10. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Verteiron · · Score: 1

      In the USA many doctors will refuse to perform vasectomies unless you're above a certain age or have at least 2 children. Similar measures are true of tubal ligation surgery for women.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    11. Re:if 'twere permanent... by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If you want kids, have kids, but don't deny that it's the supremely selfish act."

      Maybe selfish in the sense that breathing air or drinking water is supremely selfish, but not in the sense that it is morally incorrect.

      I say that, because not having children because of your own ideology is just as selfish from the unborn potential child's perspective.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    12. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Taibhsear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WOOSH!
      I think the posters point was that there are tons of kids available to be adopted. There is no need to breed your own. All of what you said can be done with an adopted child. You know, the ones that are here already and need help now.

    13. Re:if 'twere permanent... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...I might consider it. There's no more selfish act in the world than having your own children.

      If only your parents had the same views.

    14. Re:if 'twere permanent... by sayfawa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All of the good that you devote to another human being when you have a child can be done by adopting. There are *so* many children out there, in every country, that need parents. Requiring that your child be a genetic descendant is pure egotism. "Forget that other kid that I could be raising, I want a shiny new one, that looks like me and has my genes".

      No, this doesn't come from the position that humans are bad and more are worse. It comes from the position that an adopted child you raise will take after you in the most important ways, you still get all the benefits of parenthood and, as a plus, you're doing good for someone else who otherwise might have had a shitty life. The insistence of people on having their own is pure selfishness.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    15. Re:if 'twere permanent... by keeboo · · Score: 1

      There are lots of underprivileged/dying people you could help if you wanted to "continue the species", farm "taxpayers for social programs", or help fulfil "potential to do something great".

      Lemme think... Underprivileged people, often tax-eater ones who can't provide proper education nor suitable environment for their kids... procreating as they wish.
      That and the assumption that it's somewhat bad that I have my own, properly cared for, and raised with my own resources.

      I didn't know humans were cattle-like and easily interchangeable. It's all about numbers, right?

    16. Re:if 'twere permanent... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I do however think it is selfish to have a large number of children. Its bad for them and its bad for our species to overpopulate. I have one child and we would have stopped at two if we had the choice.

    17. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why? So you can create a life that will take care of you when you get older.

      FTFY

      Having a child isn't as selfless an act as you make it.
      For many it's a retirement plan, a way to "continue their legacy", or because their deity told them to "be fruitful, and multiply" -- and that's assuming you're in a 1st world country where you don't need farm hands or arranged marriage to win favor with a neighboring tribe.

    18. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No he isn't. I made the conscious decision not to have children myself around age 15 (coincidentally around the time I started having sex) and I have made it more than 20 years sticking with that decision. No vasectomy required - just thinking with your big head and not your little one. I applaud anyone who doesn't have children for all the right reasons. And I feel bad for people who have them for all the wrong ones.

    19. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BTW - your hand doesn't count as a girlfriend, even if you named it.

    20. Re:if 'twere permanent... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      With that attitude I don't think you need to worry about having kids.

      Actually, I bet he already has kids!

    21. Re:if 'twere permanent... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Let me fix that for you to say what your mind was thinking before it edited itsoutput for polite conversation:

      Having a kid basically means devoting very large chunks of your life to your own sperm. You're giving up 2 years of doing anything, 3 further years of any daytime activities, then 15 years of having control over your own life. And why? So you can send your own genes off into the wild and ensure the continuation and possible dominance of your DNA on the human species.

    22. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      Yes, curse those "tax-eating" healthy newborns to destitute parents. Clearly they're of worse stock than anything your genes would create, and like runt whelps on a farm they ought to be tossed on the compost to make way for your mighty seed.

    23. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      Why would I go through unnecessary surgery (which local doctors wouldn't perform anyway, so I haven't spent much time entertaining the idea)?

      On a similar note, I consider it fairly inadvisable to become morbidly obese, but I don't have a stomach band because I use my mind to control my eating behaviour.

    24. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      I say that, because not having children because of your own ideology is just as selfish from the unborn potential child's perspective.

      Does not exist, thus has no perspective, except in religious or quasi-religious formulations.

    25. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Me, can't have kids, nature, mutation, radiation, you know all that jazz.

      Again, how is having children a selfish act? Or the most selfish act?

      The supremely selfish act is suicide.

    26. Re:if 'twere permanent... by keeboo · · Score: 1

      How politically correct of yours.
      Travel around the world and know (for real) the ones you're so eager to automatically call victims.

    27. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      All of what you said can be done with an adopted child.

      Ever known anybody that went through the adoption process? It's not an easy undertaking. I watched someone get denied at the last minute for no reason at all. This was after they went through the rectal exam that is the adoption process, answering all manner of questions ranging from their finances and background to their damn sex life. Yes, the Social Worker actually asked about that, using the excuse of "A satisfied husband won't molest the kids." or some such bullshit.

      After all this they finally met the kid and became emotionally attached to it, only to be rejected at the last minute as previously mentioned. This process was emotionally scarring to say the least. It reminded me of the women that I've known whom have miscarried. To get that emotionally invested in something and then to lose it at the last moment.

      It's not that easy to adopt a kid in the United States.

      There's also the matter that some of us actually have an attachment to our family, history, culture, etc and would like to ensure that it survives for another generation. I don't think that's selfish at all, though some would probably disagree.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    28. Re:if 'twere permanent... by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Biologically speaking, your life has no purpose other than to have children...

      Why must people insist on fighting our absolute most basic laws handed to us by our very structure?

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    29. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      from the unborn potential child's perspective.

      What about the imaginary unicorn's point of view? Have you considered that?

    30. Re:if 'twere permanent... by RecessionCone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It always strikes me as amusing that religious people who ostensibly don't agree with Darwin end up with lots of kids, while the stereotypical secular humanist strongly believes in evolution but refuses to propagate his or her genes. It's an interesting disconnect between ideology and reality, on both sides.

    31. Re:if 'twere permanent... by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Well, that is one anecdote. Pregnancies can also be very difficult and end unexpectedly.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    32. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's not that easy to adopt a kid in the United States.

      There's also the matter that some of us actually have an attachment to our family, history, culture, etc and would like to ensure that it survives for another generation. I don't think that's selfish at all, though some would probably disagree.

      In other words, "it's easier" and "I think my genes are more important."

      You've just spelled out in great detail why procreating is indeed significantly more selfish than adopting.

    33. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet you're happy your parents were selfish.

      Or, maybe we will get lucky and you'll do a post birth abortion on yourself.

    34. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your genes are no better than anyone else's? I'm sorry to hear that. I tend to perform between 80th and 90th percentile in most tests, and have an IQ of ~130, as well as being tall, fit, healthy, relatively good looking, and with a knack for computers and machinery. I want children who are genetically my own because I know they too will be better than average. If I were to instead adopt random children, I would actually be doing humanity a disservice. Any child I have, adopted or not, will have the same advantages based on what I can teach them and what opportunities I can provide for them, so the only other advantage I can give them is my genes.

    35. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The supremely selfish act is capitulation. Renouncing all responsibility for yourself, forcing others to take care of you in every way, despite possessing the capacity to care for yourself and others if you would only choose to do so.

      That, or stealing a bunch of shit. One of the two, anyway.

    36. Re:if 'twere permanent... by BadAndyJ · · Score: 1

      Having kids is selfish? I'm sure your parents felt the same way. How many siblings do you have? Are you the oldest? I'd say there is no more selfish act in the world than to commit suicide, and denying the extention of your bloodline is akin to suicide. Otherwise, we'd end up with family trees with only one trunk and no branches. And forget about the roots of the tree, cause nobody would give a shit about where they came from.

    37. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you aren't self-centred at all.

    38. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pretty good. I still sometimes have trouble differentiating the strands of spaghetti.

    39. Re:if 'twere permanent... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      How is that "the" supremely selfish act compared to, say, dumping toxic waste on 3rd world water supplies in order to save a buck? Or buying up a business, raiding the pension fund, and selling off the parts for profit while thousands of people wonder where their job and retirement went? Or abusing your status as a police officer in order to get a sad power kick?

      According to the Christian religion, the most supremely selfish act is suicide. Arrogant too, to assume you have the right to decide when your life ends (because only God is meant to have that power). Compared to dumping toxic waste into a water supply, destroying peoples futures or being on the take, suicide is the worst sin as you can always repent for the others.

      This is covered chapter six in my book, why I am an atheist.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    40. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy your worthless life. Fornicator.

      It may seem like fun and games now, but when the time comes to meet your maker you and your ilk will regret your decisions.

    41. Re:if 'twere permanent... by kd5zex · · Score: 1

      Behold the power of the corporate media.

    42. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The possible dominance of my DNA on the human species.
      Yes, this was my thought exactly when I chose to reproduce.

    43. Re:if 'twere permanent... by profplump · · Score: 1

      There's also the matter that some of us actually have an attachment to our family, history, culture, etc and would like to ensure that it survives for another generation. I don't think that's selfish at all, though some would probably disagree.

      How does adopting a child into your family prevent you from propagating your "family, history, culture, etc." for another generation? Does your culture have a genetic component? And if it does, is that really a trait that you want to pass on to future generations -- while I'm sure there are exceptions, I suspect that the vast majority of people here would not consider multigenerational racism a good thing.

    44. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I don't dispute that some societally beneficial traits are hereditary, or even that you might posses them, I think you missed the point if you're trying to dispel the accusation of egotism.

      We're not talking about the choice between creating two new children, one with superior heredity and one with normal heredity, we're talk about the choice between providing proper care for an existing child and ignoring that existing life child in favor of a new one that you create. They only way you can get more selfish is with some sort of evil-villian-class sociopathy.

      For that matter, doesn't your superior fitness make you an ideal candidate to help children with only normal genes to make the most of their limited DNA? These children are already at a disadvantage by not having parents, let alone their heredity (which you actually don't know ahead of time) -- wouldn't your advanced skills as a parent help these children achieve at least a normal level of societal contribution, rather than relegating them to the sub-par performance we often see in children not raised in stable homes?

    45. Re:if 'twere permanent... by profplump · · Score: 1

      not having children because of your own ideology is just as selfish from the unborn potential child's perspective.

      Really? Do you keep every woman you see continuously pregnant (or yourself, if you're a woman)? Because if you don't you're killing all the "potential children" that could result from you impregnating every woman in your line of sight. They might not all agree to your proposition, but isn't it at least your moral obligation to attempt to convince them of their duty to remain pregnant at all times, and to endeavor to impregnate them if they agree?

      Or if you'd like to actually discuss the situation rationally we could agree that dead/undead/otherwise-not-currently-alive "persons" cannot be granted the same moral considerations as persons that are currently alive; while a potential life might have some moral impact it cannot be considered equivalent to an actual life in any useful system of morality.

    46. Re:if 'twere permanent... by DaFallus · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows the only truly unselfish way to have children is to adopt them from a third world country and then mention that little tidbit in every conversation you have so that you can feel smug and superior to all the little people who reproduce the old fashioned way. I mean, it is all the rage with celebrities, so it must be the right thing to do! The only other option is to not have any kids and you can still feel superior to the breeders by pointing out how selfish they are and that you don't have kids because the world already has too many orphans.

      Next up, how eating enough food to stay alive while millions starve around the world makes you a selfish prick.

      </sarcasm>

      --
      No one cares what your captcha was

      Houston TX, USA
    47. Re:if 'twere permanent... by sheph · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you won't be reproducing. Maybe that silly line of reasoning can finally die with you.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    48. Re:if 'twere permanent... by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      At which point you should tell the doctor to go fuck himself and find one who respects his patients.

    49. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 0, Troll

      There's none more irrationally angry than one who's repressed his guilt.

    50. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      If you asked a doctor to cut off your leg because you had an amputee fetish, should he "go fuck himself" in favour of someone who "respects" your desire for medically unnecessary surgery?

    51. Re:if 'twere permanent... by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      If you have a doctor who can't differentiate between the ethics of a vasectomy and a voluntary amputation, run for the hills.

      That said, ff you're young and you don't have kids, asking you to undergo a psych evaluation before performing a vasectomy is probably the most responsible thing the doc can do.

    52. Re:if 'twere permanent... by dwightk · · Score: 1

      Well, on one anyway.

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    53. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      You lost me when you suggested that a desire to carry on the family line is "multigenerational racism".

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    54. Re:if 'twere permanent... by masculonius · · Score: 1

      Deciding to have a child is supremely selfish. You are not doing it for the child (because there is no child yet) - you are doing it for your own selfish reasons.

      Raising a child, however, requires you to be supremely un-selfish.

    55. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's plenty of kids out there waiting to be adopted.

    56. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      If you have a doctor who can't differentiate between the ethics of a vasectomy and a voluntary amputation, run for the hills.

      They're both medically unnecessary operations to (sorta) irreversibly disable a functioning and healthy part of your body in order to increase your sexual pleasure.

      I don't want a doctor who advocates destruction of body parts for reasons other than medical necessity, whether that's leg, foreskin or vas deferens.

    57. Re:if 'twere permanent... by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      The morally significant difference between what I said and what you're saying at is that I'm not arguing for the "future-like-ours" perspective as would Don Marquis, and as you are implying.

      Instead, just like drinking water or breathing air, the decision to have children is morally insignificant, and by action of choosing not to have children with the maxim of abiding by personal ideology is equivalently bad as choosing to have children (insignificantly so).

      Nowhere do I say or imply that potential children have equal moral considerations as people, but rather that in either case, the moral considerations are negligible since, in either case, the decision made is selfishly made from a personal ideology and selfishness does not imply morality.

      The faceless collective of those harmed by overpopulation elsewhere are not affected by a single child born in an economy that supports it, so I grant "them" the same moral considerations as the unborn child (none, just as that use of "selfish" does not imply morality).

      I can go on and say that another significant difference is that you do not have the positive right to sire as many children as possible, but rather the negative right to have children without external influence from peer pressure or others' opinions.

      If that's still confusing (I know it's a subtle point), and you are a Kantian like I am, I could go on from another line and point out that if the OP's claim of having children being a selfish act was implying morality instead of just an observation, that it would fail the Formula of Universal Law. Tthe maxim that I pointed out, "not having children because of your own ideology", presents a contradiction, since universalizing that maxim causes the population to shrink on a massive scale which defeats the original ideology. While that might sound like resolution, it would only be so on a small scale, and is not morally correct (though maybe not morally incorrect) given the economic and political implications. It fails some of the same sort of philosophical (not pragmatic) tests that eugenics fails.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    58. Re:if 'twere permanent... by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      One serves a purpose (contraception).

      The other induces a disability.

      I know you're just being argumentative, but if you change your mind you can still adopt, but we don't have leg-transplants.

      Then there's wisdom teeth, nose jobs, liposuction, lasik etc. etc.

    59. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      I belong to two ethnic groups where culture has a genetic component, Ashkenazic Jew and Prairie Band of Potawatomi Nation, and if I could have kids I would have a child, after all there are only about 33,000 Potawatomi in North America.

      Family, history and culture are not racist.

    60. Re:if 'twere permanent... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      To disagree with someone isn't "being argumentative".

      The death of your partner is also an effective contraception, but it's an unnecessary excess; as is a vasectomy. There are many alternatives, some of which have similar failure rates to a vasectomy. What is more, a vasectomy induces the disability of permanently reducing/destroying your ability to ejaculate fertile sperm: you might say, "that's not a disability!" but it's a fairly significant function of the healthy human male, just like, say, walking.

      Wisdom teeth? If they're not causing trouble or likely to cause trouble, you're as silly to remove them as you are to choose circumcision. I wouldn't want a dentist who recommended unnecessary removal of anything. Indeed, I have an academically keen dentist who holds a senior position with a regional dental group, and the most important thing he's done to me is make sure I brush my teeth well. The only thing I've had done to my mouth over the decades is one filling.

      Nose jobs? If you mean for cosmetic vanity purposes, fortunately the average plastic surgeon isn't involved in primary care, so I'm unlikely to meet one shallow enough to push this.

      Liposuction? If you have a psychological disability which makes you incapable of controlling your eating, and this has caused you to become morbidly obese, which in turn has given you other serious health problems, liposuction might be a suitable temporary treatment for the consequences of your addiction.

      Lasik? That's directly fixing an obvious optical fault.

    61. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Suicide is a selfish act, not because of the religious bits, but because a suicide devastates your friends, coworkers and family.

      A medical suicide is one thing, folks know how bad off you are and there'll be shrugs and "At least they aren't in pain anymore" remarks. No, a suicide is terrible to everyone you know and your entire family.

      I'm from a very high suicide region of the United States and have known families where suicide was rampant. In my four years of high school I remember 11 suicides in a school with 200 students. 12 year olds killing themselves, mothers and fathers doing it too.

    62. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      It can be calculated, just like potential energy can be calculated.

    63. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on what is your goal for having children. What if your main goal is ensuring your own survival, your own immortality as it were? What if you want for your son to become the piercing light of your soul shining forward, into the future, through the ages? Taking blood from your blood and flesh from your flesh seems to be the most powerful means to achieve that. It is the closest you can get in some sense to fighting and staving off death.

      Selfish you say? Of course it is 'selfish'! Every breath of air we take is an assertion of the self. With every step we squash out of existence myriad other smaller life forms (read about the Sikhs and their religion if you want to learn what life is like when you try to minimize that). Every bite of food you have is a death sentence to the 'other'. Is the lion butchering his fresh kill 'selfish'? That is a ridiculous concern, and even a disease of the spirit if you will.

      That being said, adoption can be a decent approximation of self-procreation for example for infertile couples, but it is an inferior surrogate.

    64. Re:if 'twere permanent... by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      Wisdom teeth are frequently pulled because the *might* cause trouble. The risk of complications is minuscule and the risk that they *might* slightly displace other teeth is fairly significant. Sort of like how sperm *might* cause a problem.

      You'll run into a urologist looking to perform a vasectomy for the same reason you'll meet a cosmetic surgeon looking to perform a vanity nose job. You sought them out because you think the procedure will make your life better. Ditto for cosmetic liposuction for the slightly overweight.

      Like myopia, at a certain point in one's life, a man might consider fertility a fault - a fault for which there are other, if somewhat less convenient solutions - fortunately a simple surgical procedure exists.

      Just as it's silly to recommend medical intervention for every minor ailment, it's silly to refuse elective medical treatment for every minor medical convenience.

      And suggesting that there is no substantive difference between a vasectomy an elective leg amputation is either being argumentative or being obtuse ... I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

    65. Re:if 'twere permanent... by rizole · · Score: 1
      Your'e miscarracterising nautre too (although granted, your spelling is better) from a particualrly western, positivist frame of reference.

      Competition does not exist in a vacuum and does not work without co-operation. The 'competition', 'selfishness' and 'rational self interest' memes are compelling because they are powerful explanations that can be weilded effectively but don't confuse the explanations with the thing itself.

      Defining 'having kids' as 'supremely selfish' is a point of view. Stating; "..not altruistic.." is a pre-polarised statement that completely misses that there even is another side to the story and is another point of view. You're welcome to your point of view but please refrain from the twin evils of confusing it with reality and imposing it on others as reality.

    66. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want kids, have kids, but don't deny that it's the supremely selfish act.

      I don't know where you come from, but in my family it is kind of a long-running tradition.

    67. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Horseshit - YOU are mis-characterising nature. The intellect you possess to make such a rank stupid statement, amongst all known living things, is the exception - not the norm. All species perpetuate themselves, this is the order of things - now shut the fuck up and deal with that undeniable fact. Existence is struggle, both Buddha and Darwin figured that out. "Under-privilege" is based on the concept OF privilege in the first place - and that is a uniquely human luxury. Those people who live the harshest lives could also produce the next successful branch of the hominid line as they will produce pretty darn tough offspring (both biologically and mentally). I say *could* - but who are we to know what vagaries brutal nature and chance will hurl our way. Perhaps fat Texans will be the most suited to survive the future. A species needs every little mutant variation its loins (buds, spores, whatever) can produce, because no species has prescience to know what's around the corner and the variation in a multitudinous offspring is the only tiny sliver of opportunity for any species' survival. Our humanity does give us the ability to help others and all and sundry (and we should - our altruism can be a biological advantage), but to use that self-same humanity to deny the fundamental element of life itself - reproduction is about the dumbest piece of shite I've heard in ages. Sure, we will increase, sure we will stretch or exhaust our resources, sure we are a disaster for millions of other species - but no less a natural disaster than other species-devastating events. We are a natural process ourselves in all this - it is only the massive human ego that thinks our cities, our devastation, is somehow "unnatural". Maybe we will survive, maybe we won't. On the geologic, let alone cosmic scale, it matters little. Being alive grants us only one basic wish (or curse) - to survive. If you don't want to have children, even one, then you could deny the first gene for oh, maybe cholera immunity or any other biological advantage - talk about "potential to do something great". We may never know though, such is the genetic lottery. There is far more to Life (with a capital L) than the pathetic little window of human existence that you seem to be looking through. Talk about selfish.

    68. Re:if 'twere permanent... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Suicide is a selfish act, not because of the religious bits, but because a suicide devastates your friends, coworkers and family.

      Not necessarily.

      That is a cultural thing, mostly because of our religion. In several cultures suicide is considered a good death rather then living in shame, in other cultures death is considered a rebirth (Buddhist/hindu). Personally I'm pro-suicide (in terms of a choice), it's the one real choice we have and if you end up living in misery because of how someone else might feel, is that not selfish of everyone else? If we are talking measures of selfishness, keeping someone around who is suffering because of how you might feel is just as selfish as someone ending it except multiplied by every person who feels that way.

      I'm from a very high suicide region of the United States and have known families where suicide was rampant.

      You have to ask yourself, why?

      People don't just kill themselves for fun. It takes a lot of torment for someone to contemplate suicide (we have a survival instinct this goes against), making suicide illegal or "immoral" (you cant kill yourself because its selfish) doesn't do a damn thing when someone feels that suicide is their only escape. If someone kills themselves or even attempts to, they were well and truly suffering enough to drive them to it, more often then not this is a failing of our society who likes to enforce social values and degrade anyone who doesn't fit in (especially with teen suicides).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    69. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Why is there a high suicide rate on the Reservation? Well it's ten times higher then the US average there. The reasons are poverty, perceived lack of a future, broken homes, alcoholism, no where to go, violence among the peergroup and gang violence.

      I'm not "pro-suicide" because I've seen how it destroys families. You can talk about how it's selfish to "keep someone around who is suffering", but I doubt you've know a friend who killed themselves which then spawns three or five attempts within hours.

      Actually, it doesn't take alot of torment to contemplate suicide or to act on it, the American Indian population has been wracked by this for about thirty years, folks just kill themselves for seemingly no reason.

      Personal experience, good friend, one evening we are out, he says "I need to stop home have dinner with my mom, come back in a half hour." We drop him off, five minutes late, he is dead. No torment, no illness, seemingly happy, none of the suicide warning signs.

      Suicidal tendencies aren't about choice, its a mental illness that needs to be properly treated.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/09/us/09suicide.html

    70. Re:if 'twere permanent... by unknownroad · · Score: 1

      I think the point of "does your culture have a genetic component?" was that any kid can be raised in any cultural setting independent of their genes (Unless we're talking about some genetic predisposition to a disability that prevents one from engaging in some cultural activities, but we're not. That'd be quibbling.). How exactly do your two ethnic groups have a genetic component? An ethnicity is simply a group of people who identify with one another for whatever reason. To an adopted child, the culture they are raised in is just as real and something to identify with as if they were naturally born to the parents who raised them.

    71. Re:if 'twere permanent... by unknownroad · · Score: 1

      After further thought on the matter, I will concede a counterexample. If an adopted child's genetics cause them to be sufficiently physically different to be deemed a visible minority in the culture they are raised in, then there will be separation between the child and the ethnicity. The two won't fully identify with each other. It may not seem like a noble trait of humanity, but we associate more closely with things that are as much alike us as possible, even when the differences are superficial. It's sort of an innate racism.

    72. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      One isn't a Jew without being born to a Jewish woman. Also, tribal membership is dependent on what percentage of their ancestors were tribal members.

      If you adopt and the child can't prove tribal ancestry, no tribal acceptance.

    73. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Thiez · · Score: 1

      How is suicide more selfish than murder?

    74. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Homicide can be justifiable.

      Someone comes into my home intent on causing harm and I kill them, that is a justifiable homicide.

      Suicide is more selfish than that.

    75. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If you don't want to have children, even one, then you could deny the first gene for oh, maybe cholera immunity or any other biological advantage - talk about "potential to do something great". We may never know though, such is the genetic lottery. There is far more to Life (with a capital L) than the pathetic little window of human existence that you seem to be looking through. Talk about selfish.

      You must be one of those people who buys lottery tickets. Are you seriously saying we should reproduce as much as possible because someone might come up with a succesful mutation? How about we just irradiate everybody slightly so mutations go up by, let's say, 100%. Then we can half as many children!

    76. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Thiez · · Score: 1

      What if someone comes into your house and kills you? Explain to me how suicide is more selfish than murder in general, not how suicide is more selfish than one very specific case of homicide.

    77. Re:if 'twere permanent... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Which is more selfish, to commit suicide or to kill someone else?

      Suicide. If one kills themselves the leave a hole behind which often leads to more self-harm or deaths in their family or peer group.

      A murderer has taken a life, may or may not be justifiable, the families of the victim have legal recourse, civil recourse, family of the murderer has the choice to support the murderer or forget them. Society has a chance to punish the murderer. Suicide leaves a hole.

    78. Re:if 'twere permanent... by unknownroad · · Score: 1

      I wasn't thinking of this when I posted earlier, but I can relate to that. I had to prove ancestry to get Metis status. It turns out I'm the last generation eligible for status (unless I had kids with someone who has more recent native ancestry); I am detached from my full-blood native ancestors by six generations.

      In practice I hardly identify with this group at all, except in principle to defend the native position whenever I catch someone making unfair and disparaging comments about them. It's interesting that a slight against a group I am only technically a part of evokes such a response, even though the group would probably view me as an outsider. I suppose there really is an intrinsic drive for humans to protect and propagate their own kin. It may be multigenerational racism, but it's natural, so we can hardly allow ourselves to get caught up on that fact.

  16. Why not by turing_m · · Score: 4, Funny

    just get married instead?

    --
    If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    1. Re:Why not by digitallystoned · · Score: 1

      Just make sure you pay for your idiot friends WoW accounts and they'll be fine

    2. Re:Why not by CasualFriday · · Score: 1

      What? Are you implying that the need for contraception goes away when you get married? It is this logic that is causing overpopulation. Unless you're saying that sex stops when you get married, in which case I offer a hearty "DOHOHOHOHO!" to you.

      --
      Raters gon' rate.
    3. Re:Why not by euxneks · · Score: 1

      Why is marriage a prerequisite for sexual intercourse and/or baby-making?

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
    4. Re:Why not by euxneks · · Score: 4, Funny

      nm. just got the joke. Been a long day. *facepalm*

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
    5. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...because one needs more proof that a thirteen month long pregnancy just isn't plausible?

    6. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You misread the summary - TFA is about high-frequency sound energy to sterilize your nuts, NOT about loud shrill noises, to prevent sex, like your whiny wife screeching at you.

    7. Re:Why not by syousef · · Score: 1

      just get married instead?

      Doesn't work. I have a 21 month old and a baby due in 5 weeks to prove it.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    8. Re:Why not by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Have you told your spouse about your new progeny?

  17. Hmmm... by Howard+Roark · · Score: 4, Funny

    Gives new meaning to the term "Hum Job."

    --
    Howard Roark, Architect
    I believe in a Man's right to exist for his own sake.
    1. Re:Hmmm... by URL+Scruggs · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you can hum that high I'd guess you've already had the treatment.

    2. Re:Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what exactly is the old meaning?

    3. Re:Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depending on whether you're female, I'm willing to demonstrate. (While this definition is androcentric, it can be pleasurably done m2f, too.)

  18. Re:First Post by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Informative

    How exactly is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation connected to Microsoft? The largest transparently-operated private foundation in the world doesn't have a lot in common with Microsoft Corp. In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  19. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they don't: the foundation is just funding the research, it's just a standard ultrasound machine.

  20. Club Of Rome Fascism by QuantumG · · Score: 1, Informative

    The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation's guiding philosophy is the Limits To Growth as described in the '72 book commissioned by the Club of Rome. The interest in the third world is the reduction in population growth to head off the bloody global competition for resources. Predominately the approach for this has been in trying to raise the conditions of living to first world standards, as population growth in the first world is basically nil or declining. However, the dark side to Limits To Growth (or I guess I should say "darker") is the prediction that this will fail and only a China style One Child Policy and mass sterilization programs will be effective for limiting population growth. As such, seeing that they are funding this kind of research now is a very bad sign.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      However, the dark side to Limits To Growth (or I guess I should say "darker") is the prediction that this will fail and only a China style One Child Policy and mass sterilization programs will be effective for limiting population growth.

      I don't see what the alternative could possibly be. As a species, we have two choices: 1) voluntarily limit our population, so that don't have so many problems with resources and environmental destruction (which leads to more resources shortages), or 2) ignore the problem, and suffer the consequences. Since the consequences of ignoring the problem would most probably be disastrous, as there's simply no way we can provide a 1st-world standard of living for 100 billion people (at least not without some major technological advances which aren't here yet and may take centuries to achieve), #2 sounds like suicide; it could result in severe environmental damage which would then lead to the world being unlivable for most humans, and a massive die-off would then happen along with the total collapse of civilization.

      Ultrasound contraception sounds like a pretty good alternative. Even unwilling men could easily be subjected to it, perhaps even without their knowledge as they walk in a public area. Of course, the Catholic Church would be up in arms about this, but they've never had any realistic alternative for the problem, and deny the problem altogether.

    2. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Threni · · Score: 1

      I think sterilizing peasants would be a good idea. There are too many chavs around just causing trouble, breaking/stealing things, fighting etc. There are enough people around now to be getting on with. Preventing people from being born can only be a bad thing if there's not enough people. There are.

    3. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      the approach for this has been in trying to raise the conditions of living to first world standards

      Something that we can't do - there simply aren't enough resources.

      We'll overshoot to 12 billion people in 2050, then we'll see the big die-off.

    4. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Natural family planning or abstinence are alternatives supported by the church. They are only "unrealistic" to some people who don't understand how to use them.

    5. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by QuantumG · · Score: 0, Troll

      Of course, the Catholic Church would be up in arms about this,

      huh? I'm pretty sure just about everyone would be up in arms about mass sterilization.. I mean, if you're not going to defend your right to breed they you probably shouldn't even bother arming yourself.

      BTW, I hope you fucking die fascist.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    6. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>2) ignore the problem, and suffer the consequences
      >>simply no way we can provide a 1st-world standard of living for 100 billion people

      Riiight. Because all the 1st-world countries are suffering such massive population growth.

      Oh, wait.

      They're all declining in population (immigration excluded).

      The solution to the Malthusian trap is to make everyone live at 1st World standards, not the opposite.

    7. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could realize that population growth decreases as people get richer?

    8. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 0

      Even unwilling men could easily be subjected to it, perhaps even without their knowledge as they walk in a public area.

      Are you serious? I rolled my eyes over the GP's usage of the 'F' word but it's this type of thinking that feeds into that paranoia. If we are to remain a society that values freedom and self-determination you have no right at all to tell me whether or not I can have kids or how many I can have. As the feminists say, "My body, my choice."

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You're an idiot: Abstinence isn't an alternative.

      How's abstinence working out for your priests, after all? Apparently, not too well, because they're all secretly molesting young boys.

    10. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How's abstinence working out for your priests, after all? Apparently, not too well, because they're all secretly molesting young boys.

      Abstinence has nothing to do with that. I've been pretty sexually frustrated at times in my life (cue /. living in Mom's basement jokes...) and I've never looked at little boys as an outlet for my energies. One can be horny without becoming a pedophile.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    11. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 0, Redundant

      What are you basing the "not enough resources" claim on? Energy? There's enough uranium in the oceans to power mankind for millions of years. Food? We already produce more food than we need. It breaks down because of economics and distribution. Even if there was a food shortage, it could be solved overnight by the simple act of reducing our meat consumption.

      I'm always skeptical of people that project current resource consumption/production trends and pronounce that the end of civilization is 50 years away. People have been doing this in one form or another since the 1800s and we are still here.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    12. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by QuantumG · · Score: 0

      I think people are *free* to do whatever they *want* and you have no right to sterilize them without their permission.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    13. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, they're not. The USA's population is increasing rapidly, due to immigrants and recent immigrants who have lots of children. Other 1st-world countries are similar.

      Leaving out immigration is stupid, since population numbers don't exclude people based on their national origin. If we did that, then official stats would show the USA as having a population of a few hundred thousand people, since almost everyone here is an immigrant or descended from one.

      There aren't enough resources for everyone to live at 1st world standards, and worse, getting people to those standards requires shifting them to 1st-world culture and education. You can't make 3rd-worlders live at 1st-world standards just by throwing money at them, and attempts to improve their societies always fail because their cultures are broken and they're uneducated. Just look at Mexico for an example of an utterly broken culture, which is famous for corruption and violence with no improvement in sight.

      Changing a 3rd-world country into a 1st-world country requires investment, education, and most importantly, time for the people and culture to adapt (mainly from old people dying out and young people with newer mindsets replacing them). It does happen (or is happening) in some places, most notably eastern european countries that were formerly behind the Iron Curtain. The Czech Republic is most notable for its very rapid pace of advancement, and other countries like Poland are also doing quite well.

      The problem, however, is that from a worldwide scale, things aren't improving fast enough in the 3rd-world countries to make up for their ridiculously high birthrate. Worse, the high birthrate continues to hold them back. How can you go to school and get an education when you're getting married at 13 and spending all your time raising 10 children before you die an early death?

      This ultrasonic thing sounds like a good development, as it's simple and easy to apply to lots of men, but it isn't permanent and wears off after a few months. Applying it to a population in a random fashion would be effective in reducing the birthrate overall without letting it get too low (as you don't want a giant discontinuity where a whole generation is missing; the social effects would be terrible).

    14. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ichthyoboy · · Score: 1

      The solution to the Malthusian trap is to make everyone live at 1st World standards, not the opposite.

      And exactly where do we get the other 4 planets worth of natural resources required for this?

    15. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you propose that society support people who have 12 kids, like the Octomom?

      Stop supporting people who can't take care of themselves and the problem solves itself naturally in short order. Yes, that's cold and heartless, but I would take the loss of the welfare state over the loss of my right to control my own body. Telling me how many kids I'm allowed to have is not compatible with Western notions of freedom and self-determination.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    16. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      No, they're not. The USA's population is increasing rapidly, due to immigrants and recent immigrants who have lots of children. Other 1st-world countries are similar.

      Leaving out immigration is stupid, since population numbers don't exclude people based on their national origin.

      No offense, Grishnakh, but you don't know how these stats are calculated. We know the birth rate in a country, and we know the death rate. The math is actually very easy, and basically all 1st world countries are not making enough babies to replace the existing people. That's why I excluded immigration - it's the only thing propping up, say, France right now, whose social welfare system depends upon a larger working class than retired population.

    17. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Except that people aren't getting richer in most places, and continue to breed like rabbits. Resources are limited, and becoming moreso every day. There's only so much fertile farmland to grow food, and only so much important minerals (such as lithium, needed for most battery-powered devices these days) available for mining, and of course only so much fuel. A "rich" population needs access to lots of food, energy, and natural resources to build and sustain an advanced civilization.

    18. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>And exactly where do we get the other 4 planets worth of natural resources required for this?

      I love hippie math.

      I've run through several of those "how many Earths worth of resources do you use?" quizzes, and never got below even one entire Earth, no matter I was apparently packing 10 people into a house, growing my own food, walking everywhere, and all the other hippie things. I think the lowest I got was 1.3 Earth.

      But it's irrelevant; the entire notion is entirely fucking stupid, and meaningless.

    19. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If we are to remain a society that values freedom and self-determination you have no right at all to tell me whether or not I can have kids or how many I can have.

      Society has every right to remove freedoms when the society is threatened. People who commit crimes don't have any freedom; they're locked in ugly jail cells for years or decades at a time. People who drive in cars don't have the freedom to drive the wrong way, because that causes accidents and death. Society places all kinds of limits on your freedom. You don't have the freedom to earn money and keep it all for yourself: you have to pay part of it to the government as "taxes", or you go to jail. You don't have the freedom to smoke an easily-grown herb either, you can be sent to prison for that too.

      If society reaches the point where there's too many people, and not enough resources, then your "right" to have 20 kids will be seen as a threat to society's health, and your rights will be curtailed. China has already reached this point and enacted restrictions on breeding. Not coincidentally, they are advancing very rapidly as a society, from a backwards agrarian society to the #1 exporter of goods. You may not like their limits on freedom (I don't either), but their policies are definitely working.

      As for the "F" word, I'm not sure you know what it means.

    20. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      Except that people aren't getting richer in most places, and continue to breed like rabbits. Resources are limited, and becoming moreso every day. There's only so much fertile farmland to grow food, and only so much important minerals (such as lithium, needed for most battery-powered devices these days) available for mining, and of course only so much fuel. A "rich" population needs access to lots of food, energy, and natural resources to build and sustain an advanced civilization.

      A rich population needs less food (because there's less people), and more energy. The natural resources issue sorts itself out via supply and demand. (A rich populace doesn't necessarily all have to have two cars per person. Look at Europe.)

      Energy problems are vastly overhyped from an engineering perspective, and are mainly caused by environmentalists, who turn around and point out the problems with energy generation.

    21. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Again, the Roman Catholic Church is the LAST group you should EVER go to for sexual advice. Just look at their record. Centuries of molestation and other deviant activity, from the people who claim to be the guardians of morality. I even heard the Pope himself has an arrest warrant in the UK because of the pedophilia scandal, and he himself is guilty (allegedly) of helping to cover up incidents by clergy.

      Keeping people sexually frustrated might not make them into pedophiles, but it certainly does make them more likely to commit sexual crimes of some type. Telling them to not have sex is just idiocy. It's like telling a hungry person that they don't need food. Worse yet, the Church actually tells married couples to be abstinent to avoid having children. What kind of stupid advice is that? One of the main benefits to marriage is sex, and withholding of sex by one of the partners is a perfectly valid reason to end the marriage.

    22. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Governments have the right to do whatever they want, as long as the people don't object. China has no problem sterilizing people without their permission; they certainly don't have any freedom to breed like rabbits there.

      At least with this ultrasound thing, the sterilization is only temporary, and wears off after a few months. That's a whole lot better than tube-tying. It would be a great thing to do to teenagers to prevent teen pregnancy (assuming, of course, that plenty of testing finds no ill long-term effects).

    23. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by maxume · · Score: 1

      Sooooo, vasectomies are relatively permanent, effective and proven.

      This is temporary and unproven.

      I think, if there is an authoritarian move to start massages balls with ultrasound, it will be because they have run out of bullets and bombs.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    24. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      What about the Western notions of welfare and big government programs that support people who have 12 kids they can't support? (It wasn't 3rd-world countries that invented welfare, after all, or big government for that matter.)

      It sounds like Western notions of freedom and self-determination aren't compatible with Western notions of entitlement programs. So either some Western notions need to change drastically, or Western society is going to collapse. Somehow, looking at history, I don't think the freedom and self-determination notions are going to win over the welfare and big-government notions. The freedom notions are only a hollow shell these days anyway. Where's your freedom to smoke or ingest anything you please, including commonly-growing herbs? Western society doesn't think too much of that particular freedom, and has removed it altogether.

    25. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by QuantumG · · Score: 0

      You sicken me.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    26. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 0

      If society reaches the point where there's too many people, and not enough resources, then your "right" to have 20 kids will be seen as a threat to society's health, and your rights will be curtailed.

      The day that happens is the day that freedom and self-determination die. Society does not have the right to tell me what I can and can not do with my body. I also reject the notion that the Earth is anywhere near carrying capacity or that we couldn't come up with technological solutions to the problem if it were. If it wasn't for technology we'd be living in nomadic bands and the Earth's carrying capacity for us would be measured with six or seven digits.

      China has already reached this point and enacted restrictions on breeding.

      Actually they are nearing the point of ending that policy, because even they have realized that it's doing more harm than good. The next generation of Chinese will have 200,000,000 more males than females. That's unprecedented in human history and it remains to be seen what the consequences will be.

      You may not like their limits on freedom (I don't either), but their policies are definitely working.

      That remains to be seen. China may be flying high right now, but this is not the first time in Chinese history that they've opened up trade with the rest of the world. Historically when they've done so in the past the coastal regions get rich while the interior stagnates -- exactly what's happening right now. Eventually it falls apart on itself and they withdraw from the world for a few generations. That may or may not happen this go around, but even if it doesn't they still have huge challenges to overcome before we can pronounce that their policies have been successful.

      As for the "F" word, I'm not sure you know what it means.

      Fascism has many faces but they all require the subordination of the individual to the state. This is incompatible with our way of life.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    27. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Again, the Roman Catholic Church is the LAST group you should EVER go to for sexual advice.

      Who in this conversation suggested going to them for sexual advice?

      Keeping people sexually frustrated might not make them into pedophiles, but it certainly does make them more likely to commit sexual crimes of some type

      Says who?

      Worse yet, the Church actually tells married couples to be abstinent to avoid having children.

      That's not what I've heard from my Catholic friends. The Church encourages natural family planning. I've never heard them encourage a married couple to abstain from sexual activity. Catholic doctrine encourages frequent copulation during marriage.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    28. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by deglr6328 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ha HA! Wow! Cuompulsory state sponsored sterilization! What a whackjob, he actually WAS serious! So tell us, did you work at Sachsenhausen or Buchenwald in the '40s?

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    29. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The population is NOT calculated from the birth rate and the death rate. It's calculated by something called a "census". The census counts the number of people living within the nation's borders at any particular point in time. Where the people came from isn't a factor. The math is even easier than you think, since it's just a simple count, resulting in a single number (rather than a rate).

      Similarly, the rate of change can't be calculated from the birth and death rates alone, since the immigration and emigration rates are a big factor. Looking at the record of censuses over the years shows the actual rate of change of the population.

      Why do you keep trying to exclude immigration?

    30. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by John+Whitley · · Score: 1

      Since the consequences of ignoring the problem would most probably be disastrous, as there's simply no way we can provide a 1st-world standard of living for 100 billion people (at least not without some major technological advances which aren't here yet and may take centuries to achieve), #2 sounds like suicide; it could result in severe environmental damage which would then lead to the world being unlivable for mos

      Isaac Asimov wrote a short story, IIRC back in the '80s, which illustrated quite clearly why we have no choice but to limit population growth. His telling was masterful, so I'll commit a bit of a crime by summarizing it: imagine that tomorrow we have technology capable, at perfect efficiency, of doing two things: 1) transporting arbitrary amounts of matter to arbitrary points in the universe instantaneously and 2) freely transmuting between matter and energy, in any desired configuration. In short, technologies that completely remove all limits on human population growth.

      Here's the kicker: with all limits removed it would only take about 4,000 years before all matter in the known universe was converted to human beings. No planets, stars, nebulae -- literally nothing but human bodies. Ain't exponential growth a bitch?

      Asimov used this to highlight that population growth simply cannot go on unchecked. There are two ways to control it: the birth rate and the death rate. We control the former, while "Mother Nature" controls the latter -- via disease, famine, warfare, etc. He also posed that should we let slip the reins on this one, that the resulting catastrophe might well deal a blow to human civilization from which we'd never recover.

    31. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Ultrasound contraception sounds like a pretty good alternative. Even unwilling men could easily be subjected to it, perhaps even without their knowledge as they walk in a public area."

      Yes, this is the current form of fascism. Somebody taking the fertility of other people without they knowing or being willing.

      There is somebody like Grishnak who thinks he is more intelligent than the rest of people and, therefore, he is entitled to decide for everybody against their will. The same was with Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. Of course, it was always done in order to achieve a better future. Of course, these guys only wanted to solve a problem.

    32. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Where's your freedom to smoke or ingest anything you please, including commonly-growing herbs? Western society doesn't think too much of that particular freedom, and has removed it altogether.

      You haven't been watching the news much lately, have you? We are actually making progress on this front. It's slow, but political change always is. I would predict the legalization of pot will happen within our lifetimes.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    33. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 16.
      (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
      (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
      (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

      So, Mr. Fascist, which other parts of the UNDHR would you like to repeal? The right to peaceful assembly? The right to rest and leisure? Equal treatment before the law without regard to race or class? Perhaps you'd like to get rid of freedom of thought, conscience, and religion? It's a monstrous path you tread, and the fact that you're +5 insightful instead of -1 Fascist Thug is chilling.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    34. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'd agree with you, if my tax money didn't go for paying for the things those tons of kids use. (Seems to me there should be a tax *increase* with more kids, rather than tax *breaks* for more kids. Give probably 2 "free" kids, then a tax on a family with more kids.... and I say that as a third child.)

    35. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Catholic doctrine encourages frequent copulation during marriage.

      Of course they do, because they want all Catholic couples to have 12 kids, who will all of course grow up to be more Catholics.

      The Church encourages natural family planning.

      There's a term for couples who practice that: "parents". It doesn't work reliably; women's bodies aren't like clocks, their cycles change unpredictably.

    36. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I kinda wonder about that one. Washington (DC) doesn't seem to be very interested in it at all, while many States are. Between that and many other issues (guns, illegal immigration) that have the States doing currently things in outright defiance of the Federal Government, I really wonder if some of them aren't going to try to secede.

    37. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Option 3) As nations with currently high population fully industrialize, population growth drops off as a matter of economic pressure do to the cost, time and the availability of contraception.

      e.g. The aging of Europe and Japan

    38. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Food? We already produce more food than we need. It breaks down because of economics and distribution.

      Yes, economics means most of it is consumed by the first world, who are obese and incredibly wasteful. The world cannot live at first-world eating standards without the first world dropping down. Who in the West will give up their cheeseburgers, pizzas, and the right to outright waste huge quantities of their food, just so some African can eat like them? They're cutting down rainforests to increase agricultural land whilst Westerners throw half their food in the garbage.

      There aren't enough minerals, or oil, for the whole world to live at first world standards. Consider what happens if the Chinese and Indians emulate Americans in commuting fifty miles from McMansions. When they all expect a steady supply of disposable electronics full of rare-earth metals, thrown away when the next version comes out. When they all expect to fly on holiday every year at a minimum.

      Maybe someone will invent nuclear fusion, so effective it can viably synthesise oil. Or some viable way of getting uranium out of the sea. And then someone will magic up a devise to trawl landfills to get the metals back. But like the end of civilisation, these things are always fifty years away.

    39. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      The population is NOT calculated from the birth rate and the death rate. It's calculated by something called a "census". The census counts the number of people living within the nation's borders at any particular point in time. Where the people came from isn't a factor. The math is even easier than you think, since it's just a simple count, resulting in a single number (rather than a rate).

      Similarly, the rate of change can't be calculated from the birth and death rates alone, since the immigration and emigration rates are a big factor. Looking at the record of censuses over the years shows the actual rate of change of the population.

      Why do you keep trying to exclude immigration?

      I'm really trying not to call you ignorant, Grishnakh, because that was the name of my favorite D&D character of all time, but it's tough.

      You use birth and death rates to calculate the replacement rate (there's similar measures with different names) instead of using a census because you need to know how your population will do if you, say, shut off all immigration. There's a real crisis around the world, where pretty much all 1st world countries are in population decline, with only immigration propping them up.

      I could tell you more, but I can see you're just not going to believe me. This is a common problem with people that have been fed lies all their life. They have a tremendous ability to blindfold themselves to facts.

      Start reading here:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate

      And pay especial attention to this graph:
      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/TFR_vs_PPP_2009.svg

      Notice that nearly every wealthy country is below the replacement rate for population growth.

      Negative population growth is as real a worry as positive growth.

    40. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give me a break. Birth rates in developed nations have been falling for years. In a lot of European countries the birth rate is less than death rate meaning that only immigration is responsible for their growth. Well off white people simply realize that two kids are plenty and don't want anymore. We have to bring third world countries out of poverty so that they will get to the point where they will self-limit their populations.

    41. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      The solution to the Malthusian trap is to make everyone live at 1st World standards, not the opposite.

      Yes, but we don't know it works everywhere, and energy use rises with standards of living and we may not be able to afford that happing in the third world.

    42. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by keeboo · · Score: 1

      Telling them to not have sex is just idiocy. It's like telling a hungry person that they don't need food.

      So sex is like food? How poetic.

      Sex is more like the urge to take a dump: it's the most important thing in your mind, then you do it, then you clean yourself disgusted, and finally pretend it never happened.

    43. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by gsakkis · · Score: 1

      as there's simply no way we can provide a 1st-world standard of living for 100 billion people

      Not to argue with your main point but FWIW future projections for the next three centuries estimate the world population to peak at 9.22 billion, or in alternative scenarios as high as 10.6 billion. Either case 100 billion is an order of magnitude off.

    44. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing with your figures, just your methodology.

      Yes, looking at census figures only has the implicit assumption that immigration policy will not change. However, if we look at the USA's population for the last century or so, we see that it's continually rising, a lot.

      Yes, if you want to do a though experiment on how things will be different if we shut off immigration (yeah right), then looking at the birth and death rates is obviously going to be important. But there's no push to shut off immigration that I've heard of (illegal immigration is a different matter though).

      So why is there a "crisis"? Again, the absolute population numbers are increasing, not decreasing. So what if it's coming from immigrants? The fact that I have to share a fixed area of land with 300+ million people isn't changed by the fact that many of them weren't born within these boundaries. They take up space just like everyone else, consume resources, etc.

      Why is it a "crisis" that non-immigrants aren't having children in large numbers? If the country gets its replacement population from elsewhere, what exactly is the problem? It seems like your argument might be that, if the rest of the world suddenly achieves 1st-world standards of living, and starts emulating 1st-worlders' reproduction rates, and possibly also stops immigrating to 1st-world nations, then the 1st-world nations won't be able to support themselves any more because of NPG. If so, that's a ridiculous argument, because there's zero chance that the 3rd-world nations (which vastly outnumber the 1st world ones in population) are going to achieve that in the next century or 5.

      If that isn't your argument as to why this is a "crisis", I'd like to hear what your argument is.

      And why is an increasing population necessary anyway? The main reason seems to be to prop up pyramid schemes like Social Security. There's lots of very small countries out there with small, stable populations that get along just fine, and don't need some giant ever-increasing population to fuel their industrial economic machine.

    45. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      We have to bring third world countries out of poverty so that they will get to the point where they will self-limit their populations.

      OK, how do you propose to do that? The developed nations have been working on that for decades, with absolutely no improvement evident. If anything, many of them seem to have gotten worse rather than better (just look at Mexico--it used to be safe to travel there a couple decades ago, but now you've got to be suicidal to vacation there).

    46. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      then you do it, then you clean yourself disgusted, and finally pretend it never happened.

      WTF? I think you need to seek professional psychological help for your issues.

    47. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      The day that happens is the day that freedom and self-determination die. Society does not have the right to tell me what I can and can not do with my body.

      Yes it does, Refer to the numerous laws about same, and their relevant punishments.

      To say nothing about the whole concept of being imprisoned.

    48. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      There's a term for couples who practice that: "parents". It doesn't work reliably; women's bodies aren't like clocks, their cycles change unpredictably.

      With the correct implementation it's actually reasonably effective. It's a little bit more involved than just marking up the calender and hoping for the best. The best methods measure the woman's body temperature, cervical mucus and other factors. Wikipedia quotes a "typical use" effectiveness of 2-25% for it. That compares to 10-18% for condoms.

      It's not perfect, but then nothing is. It is a viable solution for people whom don't want to subject the wife to hormonal birth control or those whose religious beliefs preclude the use of artificial methods.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    49. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by vbraga · · Score: 1

      And imposing your will at people is good? Or the people aren't really people for you just because they're "chavs" (wherever this may mean)?

      Promoting birth control practices is good. Educating the population is good. Forced sterilization is not only bad, it's evil. And evil shouldn't be seen as normal.

      --
      English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
    50. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Consider what happens if the Chinese and Indians emulate Americans in commuting fifty miles from McMansions.

      Perfectly supportable with electric cars using power generated by carbon neutral sources. We've got at least three of those (hydro, nuclear, wind) available using existing technology. If battery technology turns out not to scale well enough to support this, then there's always synthesized oil, hydrogen, etc.

      When they all expect a steady supply of disposable electronics full of rare-earth metals, thrown away when the next version comes out.

      Many companies specialize in recycling these sorts of resources. There's also a whole solar system filled with them. Just because it's not currently commercially viable to engage in these enterprises does not mean that it will remain so in the future. A few decades ago it wasn't economically viable to extract oil from tar sands. Today it's done on a routine basis.

      When they all expect to fly on holiday every year at a minimum.

      And? Planes can't operate on synthetic fuels?

      But like the end of civilisation, these things are always fifty years away.

      Didn't someone predict that 50 years ago? And 50 before that? Funny, we're still here....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    51. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by keeboo · · Score: 1

      then you do it, then you clean yourself disgusted, and finally pretend it never happened.

      WTF? I think you need to seek professional psychological help for your issues.

      Sorry if my analogy was too raw for your delicate taste.
      Are you from the ones who are disgusted by unshaven women too? ;)

    52. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I owe you an apology. Earlier I said that I rolled my eyes when I you used the word 'fascism'. I'm usually skeptical when people use words like that, because it's typically done simply to inflame the discussion. I've changed my tune after the dialogue with Grishnakh. He genuinely seems to believe that Government should have the ability to regulate procreation and that the tyranny of the majority is sufficient justification to strip away freedoms. Subordinate yourself to the state! Society as defined by us knows better than you.

      Scary stuff.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    53. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Your analogy was brilliant, just so you know.

      Isn't the disgust of unshaven women amusing? Why would you be disgusted by nature's creation?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    54. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Thanks. And remember, "the science is settled".

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    55. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    56. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      A few decades ago it wasn't economically viable to extract oil from tar sands. Today it's done on a routine basis.

      We only are able to do it economically when the world price of oil is high. When the price of oil dropped, oil sands production became ueconomical.

      It also requires large quantities of something else that is increasingly in short supply - water - as well as natural gas to produce the steam necessary for liquifying the oil in the tar sands..

      Even then, it'll all be gone in well under a century ...

    57. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by SirSlud · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would tend to imagine that the number of people who have never wasted some sperm in their lives is close to absolute 0.

      So between that and no contraception, what's the difference?

      If God gave us wet dreams, he gave us the right to waste sperm in little rubber containers. Or spray it all over the wall, for all he cares. I mean, it's a little hard to believe that God expects us to be chief financial officer for little dudes we create in the billions.

      I would expect it is simply much more logical to assume those religious beliefs were codified in times where we really didn't have a clue how all the plumbing worked.

      Between more effective methods of avoiding creating real world problems and assuming that those beliefs reflect the true will of God, I know which side I fall on. Pluck a person who's never been exposed to the teachings of the church, and they would have never ever even considered such a theological limitation. People get it from their churches, who got it from older folks, who got it from older folks ... there are some notions that, even if I accept the possibility of a theology, are far more likely simply to be a spiritual case of broken telephone.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    58. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      That doesn't sound like abstinence....

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    59. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Even then, it'll all be gone in well under a century ...

      The point was, that we found a previously unexploited resource. There is no reason to assume that humanity is doomed when that resource runs out. As I said, we already have the technology to produce energy from renewable resources, specifically hydro, wind and nuclear. You can't look at current resource utilization and assume that humanity is fucked in X number of years.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    60. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Right, so we replace demand for oil with demand for battery acids, and coal, and the limited places to put hydrodams.

      Yeah we can extract tar sands, at great cost and environmental destruction, and that's just to keep up with existing demand. Where do we get the oil to support the other 80% of the world's population?

      Btw hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's just a very volatile, hard to handle energy storage medium.

    61. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Btw hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's just a very volatile, hard to handle energy storage medium.

      I didn't claim it as an energy source. I offered it as a replacement for petroleum in mobile applications. The ultimate source would be the electrical grid. As previously established we know how to generate electricity without producing CO2.

      Where do we get the oil to support the other 80% of the world's population?

      Why are you assuming that oil is the only way to support civilization?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    62. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by spanky+the+monk · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I totally agree; get rid of welfare! The government is always using the "reduce cost of welfare" argument as justification for governing how you take care of yourself: tax cigarettes to reduce health costs, etc.

      Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. Give the government responsibility over a facet of society and they get your freedom for free.

      Same goes for education and health care. Get the government out of it and let the free market operate; and that doesn't mean crippling it by creating regulations which distort markets and locks out competition to established industries, and then blaming lack of regulation/government control as the problem.

    63. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Yes, but we don't know it works everywhere, and energy use rises with standards of living and we may not be able to afford that happing in the third world.

      It has worked in every country where conditions improved, except Saudi Arabia and Israel, and there's reasons for those two guys.

      Energy issues are mostly overrated. If Benin ever developed a strong middle class, there'd be plenty of options to supply them with power, not even counting coal or gas.

    64. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Yes, if you want to do a though experiment on how things will be different if we shut off immigration (yeah right), then looking at the birth and death rates is obviously going to be important. But there's no push to shut off immigration that I've heard of (illegal immigration is a different matter though).

      It's not really about immigration - I just mentioned that because it's important to separate natural birth and death rates and immigration, which can cover up demographic trends if you just rely on things like census data. For example, during the 1800s, health was so low in cities like New York that it actually had a much higher death rate than birth rate, but immigration kept it alive (so to speak) and booming. If you just look at the raw numbers, you miss very important details about what is going on.

      >>If that isn't your argument as to why this is a "crisis", I'd like to hear what your argument is.

      It IS a real crisis. Japan's population is in a severe decline. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Population_of_Japan_since_1872.svg) They'll either have to open up the country to 500 million (not hyperbole) new immigrants in the next 80 years, or their social system will collapse. But if they open it to 500 million new people, their country will probably collapse. So "crisis" really is the right word, as it means the end of Japan as we know it unless they can reverse these trends. Similar problems exist in Singapore, Hong Kong, France, etc.

    65. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      >>Yes, but we don't know it works everywhere, and energy use rises with standards of living and we may not be able to afford that happing in the third world.

      It has worked in every country where conditions improved, except Saudi Arabia and Israel, and there's reasons for those two guys.

      Energy issues are mostly overrated. If Benin ever developed a strong middle class, there'd be plenty of options to supply them with power, not even counting coal or gas.

      What about India and China, at the same time? Maybe you are right. The point is we don't know what will happen until we try it.

    66. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>What about India and China, at the same time? Maybe you are right. The point is we don't know what will happen until we try it.

      China has a massively growing middle class, and they haven't run out of power yet, case in point.

      China is even trying to build out more nuclear power, since I think even they realize the negative consequences of coal.

    67. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      China has a massively growing middle class, and they haven't run out of power yet, case in point.

      China are building more coal power stations, which is a major pollution issue.

    68. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Hatman39 · · Score: 1

      I think you have this figures messed up... condoms fail about 10-18% of the time. I believe that the 'rhythm' method is about 25% effective, now that means 75% failure rate. Also, this is not a per time figure, this is over a year of regular sex, no other contraceptives, 3 in 4 couples on the rhythm method get pregnant. Compare that to 1 in 5 couples for condoms. I know which I am using....

    69. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily true, as it happens. If you look to many developing countries where there is no social safety net of any description, infant mortality rates are so high that couples have many children in order to increase the likelihood that at least a couple will survive into adulthood.

    70. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      And if people are completely unable to take care of their children, Jonathan Swift pointed out a quite reasonable solution.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    71. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Fresh water and land. Those are problems, and they're going to continue to be problems. Why not lessen the scale by reducing birthrates? 2 kids per family will still mean a peak at around 9 billion, but that's better than 12 billion.

      Just because we're found "work-arounds" up to now doesn't mean we'll continue to, or that the ones in place will continue to work. Look at the problems with the current crop monoculture now being encroached on by super-weeds.

      Why do people think they need 3, 4, 6, 8, 14, 19 kids anyway?

      One kid, no problem. Two kids, that's one per parent - there's a kind of balance to that. 3 kids, simple solution - shoot one of the parents. (I'm not serious, but if we're not careful, it COULD come down to that, and it does address the problem by getting rid of one of the people responsible).

    72. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Fresh water is a renewable resource. Land is in abundance in most of the 1st world. The way to reduce the birthrate is to assist the developing world into realizing it's potential. Developed societies have lower birthrates and the technology to support a higher population. It's a win win on both fronts.

      Yeah, the current crop culture is broken. But so what? It can be changed. It would actually be better for us if it did change. We've centralized the food production and distribution network to a dangerous extreme, IMHO. My state can grow many types of fruits and vegetables at home but we import 95% of our produce from California. This is more expensive in terms of energy and more vulnerable to failure from unseasonable weather and disease.

      Change is never easy. It's often quite painful and disruptive. But most of us will still be around after it happens. That's why it's hard for me to take seriously the claims that we are 50 years away from being completely screwed.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    73. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by TqUhpiQaw · · Score: 1

      To me population control seems secondary to controlling the quality of the individuals. I see the perceived "right" to produce and raise selfish thoughtless gits much more dangerous. So how's this for an idea: have a fitness test if you want to become a parent. Psychological exam, and a course in parenting, and you have to announce before conceiving that you intend to have a child. Oh you can do it without all that, but then you do it on your own dime: no state support whatsoever. Prenatal care, delivery, [m|p]aternity leave all out of own pocket.

      --
      We fetch your mail, we route your packets, we guard you while you surf. Don't fuck with us.
    74. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      This is more expensive in terms of energy and more vulnerable to failure from unseasonable weather and disease.

      Everything fails at some point. Too many people will turn failures from "oh well, we can shift a surplus of supply from somewhere eles" to "massive death."

      The way to increase our environmental footprint and put evrything under even more stress is to assist the developing world into realizing it's potential, rather than EVERYONE reducing their birth rate to below ZPG.

    75. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Except petroleum, most of the "limited" resources are limited because of economic reasons. Like the cost of the material is to low to justify a new mine, or a new mine will drop the price and put other mines that company owns out of business. Or here in Alaska, the environmental benefits of the area outweigh the long term economic gains from the resources. There was just a story here on /. about how there is very little rare earth and strategic metal production in the US right now even though the US has known proven sources and there is alot of the US unexplored.

      http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/03/16/1739241/US-Sits-On-Supply-of-Rare-Tech-Crucial-Minerals

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_Mine [wikipedia.org]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dog_mine [wikipedia.org]

      http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/rare_earths/mcs-2010-raree.pdf [usgs.gov]
      "In 2009, rare earths were not mined in the United States."

      World-wide population growth rates, especially in places like India, are slowing, Sub-Saharan Africa is being ravaged by HIV/AIDS, Western Europe and Japan's populations are declining.

      For Lithium - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium#Occurrence - its not that rare - 27,400 tons of production a year with 4,100,000 tons of reserve make for 149 years of Lithium with another 400+ years of reserve base.

      Uranium, we have about 150 years, coal 60-150 years

    76. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, this form of birth-control might be ideal to stop rabbit-like breeding in impoverished countries such as India and China where the population is nothing more than a source of cheap labor for multinational corporations. Can the entire population be temporarily sterilized at one time?

      That's not a good idea; it creates a discontinuity, or worse a generation gap.

      What's better is just temporarily sterilizing people on an entirely random basis. For instance, put these sterilizing machines in totally random public places, for specific periods of time. Then no one can complain that they were discriminated against or whatever, and by controlling the rate of application of the machines, you can decrease the birth rate by a particular amount overall. If it goes too low, you reduce the total time the machines are used; if the birth rate is too high, increase the total time they're used. By using them in a totally random fashion, you can eliminate any problems such as people in one district not having enough kids compared to other districts.

    77. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      They'll either have to open up the country to 500 million (not hyperbole) new immigrants in the next 80 years, or their social system will collapse.

      Why would their social system "collapse"? Sure, if you're running a Ponzi scheme for a social system, then it's not going to work, but these things can be tweaked. Instead of requiring Social Security to fund itself (and also taking money out of it to put into other pet projects), you can take money from other places to shore up Social Security. It'll have a cost, obviously, since it'll be diverting funds from other uses, but that's a lot better than just running out of money.

      There is absolutely no reason a well-managed nation can't survive and even thrive with a stable population, instead of depending on an ever-increasing population to keep social systems modeled after Ponzi schemes going.

      Also, in case you haven't noticed, Japan doesn't have room for 500 million more people. They barely have room for the ones they have now. Tokyo is one of the most dense cities on the planet, with families sharing apartments because real estate prices are so high. Where exactly do you propose that Japan put all these additional people? Sure, much of Japan is sparsely populated, but that's because it's rugged, mountainous terrain that can't be built on. The inter-city transport there is so bad that many company employees use helicopters to travel between company sites in different cities, because it takes too long to drive over the windy mountain roads. As for Hong Kong, it's even worse: it's a small island. There IS no extra space. Where do you propose they put another hundred million people there? 4 families per 500 s.f. apartment?

      How many people do you have living with you, anyway? If you don't have at least a dozen people sharing your home, I think it's a little hypocritical for you to be supporting a greatly increased population.

    78. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's a Bill-Clinton-like definition of "abstinence": they've redefined the term to mean avoidance of sex with mature people of the opposite sex, so in their view they're OK as long as they restrict their activity to underage boys.

    79. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      World-wide population growth rates, especially in places like India, are slowing, Sub-Saharan Africa is being ravaged by HIV/AIDS, Western Europe and Japan's populations are declining.

      Perhaps, but I don't see the middle-eastern countries' growth rates slowing, and I'm not so sure Western Europe's populations are declining. The white people, sure, but they're being flooded by immigrants, just like the USA is; Europe's immigrants seem to come mostly from the mideast though.

      For Lithium - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium#Occurrence - its not that rare - 27,400 tons of production a year with 4,100,000 tons of reserve make for 149 years of Lithium with another 400+ years of reserve base.

      Yes, but lithium usage is probably going to increase, a lot, especially if electric cars become mainstream. All those vehicles will need high-performance batteries, and it looks like they're probably going to use lithium. That'll multiply the lithium usage by many times over the current usage rate, as right now it's mainly used just for laptop and cellphone batteries, very small devices compared to cars.

      Of course, even more worrying than minerals (since if we get really really desperate, we can always turn to Moon or asteroid mining after developing the necessary technology), is food. Food requires a lot of land to grow, and there isn't any easy way around that. Sure, fertilizers (made with petrochemicals usually--another limited and dwindling resource) can improve yields, but only so much. You're never going to get technology to improve your yield, say, 100 times. Each person requires a certain number of square feet of land for growing crops, and if they want a good diet with things like meat, a large variety of vegetables, etc., then you need even more land. We could probably optimize food production if we just abandoned meat and vegetables, and only grew algae for food, but who wants to live like that?

    80. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      For food, well I come from a long line of farmers (90 years in the US, 300 years in Poland/Lithuania/Prussia), and there are vast tracks of the US that aren't farmed anymore because crop yields got too high the price collapsed so the Federal Government started paying farmers not to farm.

      Starvation doesn't come from there being too little food grown on the planet, it happens because the transportation infrastructure doesn't exist to make the movement of foods economical or efficient. The starvation in North Korea during the 1990s is because of deforestation coupled with the government not wanting help from Japan, the United States, China, Russia or South Korea.

      Actually wheat yields increased from .5 tons a hectare to 10 tons a hectare in Western Australia from 1900 to 2000.

      http://www.regional.org.au/au/asa/2004/poster/1/4/1158_wongmt.htm?print=1

      The world population was 1.6 billion, and now it's 6.8 billion, so agriculture can scale that fast.

      As for Lithium, the Lithium trade groups forecast a downturn in Lithium demand in the next ten years

      http://trugroup.com/Lithium-Market-Conference.html

      But aircraft and batteries will cause the market to rebound to what it was before the global downturn, so demand isn't going to increase, its just going back to what it was, so it's safe to stick with 150-550 years of Lithium reserves.

    81. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by rizole · · Score: 1

      ...but completely compatible with a system of unbalanced power and resources. I like your use of the concept of naturally in this train of thought but it's misplaced. You could replace it with politically and maybe even with socially and it would better reflect your proclivities.

    82. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      Stop supporting people who can't take care of themselves and the problem solves itself naturally in short order. Yes, that's cold and heartless, but I would take the loss of the welfare state over the loss of my right to control my own body. Telling me how many kids I'm allowed to have is not compatible with Western notions of freedom and self-determination.

      The choice to *not* have a kid is the right to control your own body. The choice to go ahead and have one involves someone else, with a lot bigger stake in the matter.

      I'm okay with starving people who choose to have kids they can't afford, but that's the parents, not the kids.

    83. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by IICV · · Score: 1

      If God actually cared about what we do with sperm, He would have woven those rules into the very fabric of reality like He did with the speed of light and the Laws of Thermodynamics.

    84. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      it's the most important thing in your mind, then you do it, then you clean yourself disgusted, and finally pretend it never happened.

      You're doing it wrong.

    85. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Also, in case you haven't noticed, Japan doesn't have room for 500 million more people.

      Exactly. You might also notice that their population will go down by 60% in the next century unless something is done. You're right, the Ponzi scheme design for social systems IS a trap, and needs to be tweaked. That number just gives you a sense of scale of what we're talking about.

      >>They barely have room for the ones they have now.

      You've never been to Japan, then? Tokyo is ridiculous, but most of the country is, well, not Tokyo.

      >>How many people do you have living with you, anyway? If you don't have at least a dozen people sharing your home, I think it's a little hypocritical for you to be supporting a greatly increased population.

      Who said I was for a greatly increased population? I said that the real crisis is the population decrease, but that doesn't mean I want to see a Malthusian trap take place. Merely that the concerns about the Malthusian Trap are basically the results of an echo chamber in the environmental movement lasting from the 1960s.

      The population of the earth is projected to peak in 2060, and then enter a decline after that. But if you listen to Greens on the issue, you'd think we were running out of food and such, when the per-capita food production has actually been rising, even with all the population growth we've had in the last 50 years.

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Food_production_per_capita_1961-2005.png

    86. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You still haven't answered my question about what's so wrong with a decreasing population. Granted, the social services will have a slight problem with fewer people paying in than taking out, but that can be fixed by pulling tax money from other places until stability is reached (or--gasp--social services could be cut). I don't see how it's going to result in a catastrophe, just budget cuts. It'll also result in a shrinking economy, but again, how is that so horrible? We have shrinking economies every time we hit a recession or depression, yet we survive.

      I think the environmental effects of things like overfishing, deforestation, and pollution, which are all greatly aggravated by overpopulation, are much bigger things to worry about, and much bigger factors in many individuals' lives, than the economic effects of a shrinking or static population.

    87. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>You still haven't answered my question about what's so wrong with a decreasing population.

      The end of humanity, or something?

    88. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Don't be ridiculous. It's not like people are going to stop having kids altogether, they just won't be having so many of them. Eventually, it'll reach a point of equilibrium. With well over 7 billion humans, the birth rate would have to stop completely for humanity to end, and even in the countries with the lowest birthrates that certainly isn't happening. Besides, after the population has reached a low point, some kind of social change (like the fact that the population has shrunk) would probably spur people to have more kids, just like in the Baby Boomer era. Even if the population dropped to only 500 million worldwide, humans could easily repopulate to present levels if they wanted to within two generations by every couple having 6 kids.

      So are there any REAL reasons we should be concerned about a shrinking population, other than some crazy religious ideas about there not being enough people for bodiless souls or something?

    89. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Don't be ridiculous. It's not like people are going to stop having kids altogether

      You don't understand how exponential decay works. By 3000, at the current rate, there'll be 50 Japanese people left. I consider that a problem, even if you don't.

    90. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Thiez · · Score: 1

      Seriously? I mean I've been disagreeing with Grishnakh here for almost this entire thread, but I can't help but agree with him that you're being ridiculous. There is NO REASON AT ALL to believe that current trends in population growth will stay the same for the next millenium. Sure, a shrinking population can have certain problematic effects, but 'Oh my god in 1000 years there will be 50 Japanese people left!' is not one of those effects, and you're just making yourself look like a crazy person by claiming it is.

    91. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Sure, a shrinking population can have certain problematic effects, but 'Oh my god in 1000 years there will be 50 Japanese people left!' is not one of those effects, and you're just making yourself look like a crazy person by claiming it is.

      Right. Because people will probably do something about it.

      I'm just saying that based on current estimations, people should really be talking about the population decrease, not the population increase, as a problem to solve. And as I said way up the thread, if you want to end the Malthusian trap, just give women an education and bring the third world up to a comfortable middle class standard of living.

    92. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      That's a fairly pessimistic attitude. It assumes that humanity will not continue to advance. The current population would not have been sustainable with the technology from 100 years ago. Ditto 1,000 years before that. Our main problem for scaling society is energy and we already have the technology for that.

      Regardless, the best way bring down the birth rate is to bring the developing world up to our standards. Do you know a better way to do it that doesn't trample on human rights?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    93. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      It depends on whether you believe that even our current population is sustainable over the long run. There's the problem - I think we exceeded long-term stability a few billion people ago - at least if we're talking about having everyone with a first-world standard of living.

      Let's look at something that's a bit easier to model - the US deficit. Sure, right now the US is still able to float bond issues ... and as long as interest rates are held artificially low, the deficit is "sort of" manageable. However, once rates go back to their historic norms, the deficit will be impossible to contain without draconian measures. We passed the "long-term sustainable deficit" several years ago, at the $10T mark. It won't be much longer before the US is in the 1:1 deficit/gdp ratio club - and tipping points like that tend to cause sudden changes - just look at Greece.

      Same thing with over-population. It only takes a few generations to go from sparse to wayyy-overcrowded.

      US Population: 1810: 7,239,881
      US Population: 1860: 31,443,321
      US Population: 1910: 92,228,496
      US Population: 1960: 179,323,175
      US Population: 2010: 309,270,235
      US Population: 2060: 486,000,000 (estimated).

      http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

      Or, to graph it:
      1810: a
      1860: abc
      1910: abcdefghi
      1960: abcdefghijklmnopqr
      2010: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcde
      2160: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrst

      This is not sustainable. Do you really think that the US can support a domestic population of over a billion in 2089?

    94. Re:Club Of Rome Fascism by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Do you really think that the US can support a domestic population of over a billion in 2089?

      Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  21. sounds like that Ronco product from Weird Al song by Phizzle · · Score: 1

    that can scramble an egg while its still inside its shell... presumably without the use of a needle... I am sorry you want to point an ultrasonic what at my what?!

    --
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
  22. Re:First Post by geekoid · · Score: 3, Funny

    " "this might tingle a little..."

    "..but for an extra 100, it will tingle a lot."

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  23. Godwin's Prophylatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Nazis did this with x-rays at Auschwitz and Birkenau (that I know of, and probably others). Apropos of nothing, but this is hardly groundbreaking!

  24. Re:First Post by JesseL · · Score: 3, Funny

    That works great right up to the point where some girl with a thing for nerds decides to jump you.

    Don't laugh, it could happen to you (it's not likely of course, but it is possible).

    --
    "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
  25. Kick in the nuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you're basically signing up to a good solid kick in the balls every 6 months?

    I'd imagine that's what a "blast of ultrasound" feels like...

    Or maybe it's more akin to a solid grinding...

  26. The B&M Gates Foundation Does Care About Pop. by bezenek · · Score: 1

    As a result of an earlier Slashdot article discussing the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation's support for eliminating diseases in developing countries, there was a discussion suggesting population control might be a better place to invest.

    It looks like the Gates foundation is not ignoring this issue.

    -Todd

    --
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
  27. Oblig. Futurama... by A+L+1+E+N · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bender: What should we point it at first?
    Fry: I dunno. Try it on me!
    [Zap]
    Fry: Ow! My sperm!
    Bender: Wow! Neat! Mind if I try that again?
    [Zap]
    Fry: Huh, didn't hurt that time.

    1. Re:Oblig. Futurama... by ari_j · · Score: 1

      The world would be a better place with more F-rays.

  28. mass sterilization anyone ? by heftysmurf · · Score: 1

    seems like a great way to conduct mass sterilization on populations that are swelling out of control.....

  29. Re:First Post by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm happy using abstinence as a contraceptive.

    See, you -say- you're happy, but then you say you're abstaining... which is it?

  30. Re:The B&M Gates Foundation Does Care About Po by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Eliminating disease is about population control. Wherever there is high mortality rates there is high population growth. It's just human nature: death is all around, make more babies.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  31. Mixed feelings by Mabbo · · Score: 1
    Look, if you're an STD, this is like finding out you get 3 Christmases this year. No more need for condoms, hurray for HIV.

    But at the same time, as a man who is paranoid about accidentally reproducing, having extra reassurances like this is a nice benefit, to say the least. Women can reassure themselves by going on birth control, but for men, we have the condom, and trusting that she's actually taking whatever BC she says she is.

    1. Re:Mixed feelings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, if you're an STD, this is like finding out you get 3 Christmases this year. No more need for condoms, hurray for HIV.

      I'm pretty sure if you are going to get this procedure the people doing it are going to be obligated to make sure you understand that the procedure will only prevent pregnancy and not stop any diseases what so ever. You still need condoms for that. And if you are going through all the trouble of doing this to your junk, [I would hope] you probably already understand that fact.

    2. Re:Mixed feelings by arekusu_ou · · Score: 1

      Uhm, you realize there are people out there that know they have an STD and deliberately spread it?

  32. I can see where this would work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Ultrasound As a Male Contraceptive"

    So they idea is to aim the sound of Freddie Mercury's voice at your balls? I can see where that would shrivel them up.

  33. Who wants customers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes Bill, give more money for contraceptives...
    = Less people on the planet...
    = Less people to buy your great software...
    How smart are you?

    1. Re:Who wants customers? by Narcocide · · Score: 2, Funny

      He's very smart. Genius in fact. You see, much like the "great software" this contraceptive doesn't work either.

  34. Just get a screechy wife by peterofoz · · Score: 1

    Has anyone else noticed how the high pitch screech of a wife or girlfriend yelling at you has the same effect?

  35. Re:First Post by value_added · · Score: 1

    I hope it's more effective than your first post attempts or somebody will be calling you Daddy soon ;)

    If not, he'll be lucky if someone calls him Daddy. Chances are better that he'll be foregoing a large portion of his income for the next 18 years with nothing to show for it.

  36. Re:First Post by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Funny

    In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.

    Virility-destroying products?

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  37. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Evil intent?

  38. Where's the connection? by StefanJ · · Score: 1

    Why do you assume that this is the Gates Foundation's "guiding philosophy?"

    Is it the mere mention of contraception?

    Why do you assume this will somehow be mandatory, or for that matter lead to "fascism?" (Historically, fascists regimes were big of keeping women at home making babies to grow up to be soldiers.)

  39. Re:Hmmmm by osgeek · · Score: 1

    With this technology, why just limit yourself to Pandora's box?

  40. Volunteers needed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These guys are geniuses. How else are half a dozen clinical researchers going to get laid, anyway?

    "Why does this request for research participants say 'No Uggos'? Is that code for something?"

  41. Ultrasound contraceptive, or baby scans by GuyFawkes · · Score: 1

    Please tell me how / why / what the difference is (SPL? Hz? Interference pattern?) because on the face of it you're talking about two opposing effects.... ... unless of course it is decreasing male sperm counts correlating with the use of ante-natal ultrasound scans...

    thank fuck I'm old enough I only had to (retrospectively) worry about thalidomide and rickets.

    --
    http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
  42. In Soviet Russia, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    contraceptive sexes male.

    1. Re:In Soviet Russia, by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Lysenko junk science.

      Also balled out for free.

  43. Duplicate post? by ciaohound · · Score: 4, Funny

    Didn't we just see a story about this? Or is Ball Lightning not the same thing?

    --
    Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
    1. Re:Duplicate post? by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      I didn't catch that story, but "Ball Lightning" is an awesome brand name for this technology once it goes into production.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    2. Re:Duplicate post? by slimjim8094 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No... not ball lightning, this is about ball lightening.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    3. Re:Duplicate post? by ari_j · · Score: 1

      Ball lightning is different, but this article is definitely a dupe of yesterday's news.

    4. Re:Duplicate post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, this is Ball Thunder.

  44. Unpleasant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds unpleasant. Fortunately, being a regular Slashdotter, I have no need of contraceptives.

  45. Blue Screen of Sterility by sanman2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Maybe a strong enough monitor could allow the BSOD to irradiate your nuts

  46. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A bunch of dumb people on slashdot making stupid, worn out jokes about them?

  47. Ringtone by MDMurphy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now if I can just get a ringtone for that...

  48. Re:First Post by Nikker · · Score: 2, Funny

    You mean their respecive founders right? Amirite? Do I get a prize?

    --
    A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
  49. Sounds like a good alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want to get fixed, but getting clipped honestly scares the crap out of me. Just the thought of it has me closing my legs tightly.

    I have such a low tolerance for pain just the thought of it makes me ill.

  50. EEP! by sea4ever · · Score: 1

    I'm not letting them get anywhere near me with those sonic screwdrivers.

  51. Re:The B&M Gates Foundation Does Care About Po by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is that there is a delay between elimination of the disease and population control. Humans continue making more babies for quite a while until they realize that there is no need to compensate for death.

    The population boom in Africa in fact at least partially is caused by the elimination of the disease.

  52. Billionaires still have to deal with traffic by TheNarrator · · Score: 3, Funny

    Imagine you're Bill Gates, you're the richest guy in the world, yet you still have to sit in traffic. So why not devote the rest of your life to population control?

  53. Re:First Post by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    yes, Bill gates made a donation, clearly that means MS will ahve access.

    also, Bill Gate bought a slurpee and 7-11 so now MS is spying on you in all 7-11.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  54. too effective by alchemy101 · · Score: 1

    I carry around a sonic screwdriver and I can assure you it works very effectively as a contraceptive

  55. Re:Hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would imagine that people said the same thing about the birth control pill 50 years ago.

  56. Re:Hmmmm by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    yes, they should listen to some boob on the internet who has no idea what there talking about instead if investing money with experts who understand what they are doing.

    Just because your on the internet with an opinion doesn't make you an expert.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  57. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1, Insightful

    oh have a sense of humor.

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  58. Simple Technology by codepunk · · Score: 1

    Why use such a high tech method when a simple hammer can produce the same results?

    --


    Got Code?
    1. Re:Simple Technology by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      because this lasts for like 6 months

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    2. Re:Simple Technology by Barny · · Score: 2, Funny

      In my day we were lucky to have a hammer!

      We used two halves of a brick if we were lucky!

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
  59. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    Psht.

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  60. huh by geekoid · · Score: 1

    "This Is" disappeared from my post, weird.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:huh by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Funny

      "This Is" disappeared from my post, weird.

      um, you do know that primary aphasia is one of the risk factors for vasectomy, right?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  61. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    What's scary is it's true. I already know a (hot) woman with a thing for nerds. Granted she has greater restraint than that, but ya know, when I'm hot, I'm hot. ;)

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  62. Three words.... by keepper · · Score: 1

    "uh... HELL NO!!!!"

    You are not zapping my #@&$ with sperm death ray!

    1. Re:Three words.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "uh... HELL NO!!!!"

      That's what she said

  63. Re:First Post by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    You know, the Woman God raped.

    So you accept Jesus as the product of immaculate conception?
    Maybe he was just a magical turd like Mr. Hankey.

  64. This is old technology. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wives discovered a long time ago that screaming loudly enough in the vicinity of their husband's testicles somehow "magically" prevented pregnancy. It prevented a lot of other things too, but that's beside the point.

    1. Re:This is old technology. by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Wives discovered a long time ago that screaming loudly enough in the vicinity of their husband's testicles somehow "magically" prevented pregnancy. It prevented a lot of other things too, but that's beside the point.

      In a pinch, biting works too, I've heard. Though it tends to be less reversible.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    2. Re:This is old technology. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I am curious. What was the context of that O'Reilly quote? That could be interesting.

    3. Re:This is old technology. by fishexe · · Score: 1

      I am curious. What was the context of that O'Reilly quote? That could be interesting.

      O'Reilly was bloviating about how awful it was to give criminals civilian trials. O'Reilly's Guest: "But it is not I who is saying it, it is the Constitution that is saying it." ...and the rest is history...

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  65. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 0, Troll

    I get modded down as overrated and this doesn't even get troll or flamebait? I'd sigh dramatically and state how I've lost faith in /. moderators, but that would indicate that I had faith in them to begin with.

    Been here too long to have any faith in them.

    Or to respond directly to such obvious trolling/flamebaitery.

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  66. Re:Hmmmm by cgenman · · Score: 1, Insightful

    That would fall under the purvey of the "safety research" that the Gates are funding. It's not like they're opening clinics in 7-11 just yet.

  67. how they found it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scientists explained that they found the effect quite by accident, an accident involving attempting to get their girlfriend pregnant and repeated, long-term use of an ultrasonic toothbrush in a way that was not intended by the manufacturer.

  68. What about cancer patients? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As part of normal followups from testicular cancer, one typically gets 3-6mo screenings via ultrasound to verify no reoccurrance. I wonder if potentially these screenings could have the effect or the partial effect of making one sterile for periods. It will be interesting to find out more information on the procedure.

  69. Its like a hoppity hop! by Bysshe · · Score: 1

    I think South Park was the location of these clinical trials

    --
    Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
  70. Hmmm, really? by chikanamakalaka · · Score: 1

    I had my testicles ultra-sounded for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicocele , I got my ex-wife pregnant the next week.

  71. World Domination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Install Neutering Device driver in a service pack or "security update"

    2) Threaten to activate at will if running old versions of MS bloatware

    3) Profit

  72. Re:First Post by jdb2 · · Score: 1

    This being /. I'm surprised no one got the "Real Genius" reference :

    "Jordan: What happened? How come you're up so late?
    Mitch: Well, I just got back from helping Chris and there was a woman in my room.
    Jordan: Pardon?
    Mitch: A woman. She was an adult.
    Jordan: Oh.
    Mitch: She wanted...She wanted to...Oh god, how can I say this as not to offend you?
    Jordan: Jump you?
    Mitch: Yeah. "

    jdb2

  73. Ultrasonic toothbrushes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, how much ultrasonic power do they have, anyway? Could be fun....hey, weren't the showers on the Enterprise sonic showers? Wondered why there were so few kids around....

  74. Bill Gates...... by voodoo+cheesecake · · Score: 1

    All stalk and no roots.

  75. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Talk about a single voice in the wilderness..

  76. Dr. Who fans will love it by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dr. Who fans will love it. Just tell them it's a sonic screwdriver and they'll line up around the block.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  77. reversible? by Cyko_01 · · Score: 1

    what, by playing the sound backwards? it sounds like it is temporary, but not reversible!

    1. Re:reversible? by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

      it sounds like it is temporary, but not reversible!

      Just like my raincoat. - President Skroob

  78. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Mary was the one who was immaculately conceived, not Jesus. It's how Jesus wasn't afflicted with original sin, because otherwise Mary would have given it to him with her filthy human vagina.

  79. Urm, yeah by sjames · · Score: 1

    What man would possibly object to his balls being blasted with ultrasound until they stop working?

    They can call it the Nutsonic BallBlaster 2000!

    More seriously, since it's effects are temporary but last several months, I imagine there will be any number of cases where a man becomes fertile again sooner than expected and with no warning sign. That could be a problem.

    1. Re:Urm, yeah by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      And yet how many men expect their girlfriends/wives to pump themselves full of hormones so that their ovaries temporarily stop working?

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    2. Re:Urm, yeah by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      I suspect a lot of men would rather take a pill or get a shot. After all, the ultrasonic device is causing actual damage while the pill just convinces something to not be so active. In practice it is probably not a big deal, but the point I was making is that the description is cringe worthy. I sure hope the pamphlets are worded better.

      The more serious problem will be, as I said, that it can easily go un-noticed when the man becomes fertile again until it is too late.

    3. Re:Urm, yeah by AndyS2 · · Score: 1

      Personally I'd prefer the ultrasound if there are no apparent side effects: I don't want to add or remove any hormones from my or my girlfriends body because I don't trust people to find out all effects of hormone treatments at the moment. On the other hand the ultrasound treatment sounds like it can be applied only to the area where we want the effect, and if anything else happens in that region after treatment (stuff falls off, more hormones being released, changes in cell structure, ...), it's probably much easier to notice than general changes in behaviour after doing hormones for a year.

      That said, we are currently still using hormones for contraception. There is just no other method we like and trust, and even after years of using hormones we didn't notice any serious problems.

  80. If I was in charge ... by LoudMusic · · Score: 1

    If I was in charge, men would be required to get an ultrasound shot to the nuts in order to receive their welfare check.

    --
    No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
  81. Contraception by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Precisely the same effect can be achieved by staying in a room full of snot-drippers for 1 hour.

  82. Re:First Post by Nikker · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wow my first troll mod! It actually feels pretty good!

    I'd like to start by thanking all the little people in my life, you all helped to make this day happen. My principal in high school for showing me how to use the soap in the gym showers, the doctor for my first rectal exam, GNAA for all their great posts and informative commentary. I couldn't have done it with out all your support!

    --
    A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
  83. This explains a lot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just had a testicular ultrasound done at the end of last November (testicular cancer check). My wife and I have been unable to successfully conceive these past six months. According to this article, I should be good to go in about two weeks. I hope this is the case, as I was afraid that having only one testis left was severely inhibiting our ability to have children.

  84. Maybe it's because ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... I'm sitting in a boring wireless network security course, slowly being tortured to death by Powerpoint and a pendantic lecture delivered in monotone (Charlie Brown's teacher), but the first thing I thought of when I read the headline was "denial of service attack".

  85. Here is an example of why by masterwit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone remember Therac-25?
     

    The Therac-25 was a radiation therapy machine produced by Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL) after the Therac-6 and Therac-20 units (the earlier units had been produced in partnership with CGR of France). It was involved with at least six accidents between 1985 and 1987, in which patients were given massive overdoses of radiation, approximately 100 times the intended dose.[2] Three of the six patients died as a direct consequence. These accidents highlighted the dangers of software control of safety-critical systems, and they have become a standard case study in health informatics and software engineering.

    (more after the link)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25

    Also a sidenote, I see how some people program (which is scary), to have them develop a machine aiming stuff at my balls, I would need to be on ALOT of drugs to agree to that.

    --
    We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
  86. Ultrasonic? by PPH · · Score: 1

    I hope they're not trying to hit a resonance. I figured that, given the length of suspension as a pendulum, mine have a natural frequency somewhat below 1 Hz.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  87. Population control by Tokerat · · Score: 1

    My first thought was Big Brother is going to sterilize us all.

    I admit that as I came to post this, I noticed that the story was tagged "ringtone" and now Slashdot collectively owes me a new keyboard.

    --
    CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
  88. Not good enough by celibate+for+life · · Score: 1

    My method is the most efficient. See nickname for details.

  89. To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, you're not misogynistic but misanthropic.

  90. Joke's on you... by Dogbertius · · Score: 1

    The one hummer in life that you DON'T enjoy.

  91. Blue? by drumcat · · Score: 1

    Oh yes -- get ready for the Blue Balls Of Death!!

  92. BOFH? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just plop your meat in the bulk eraser?

  93. Re:The B&M Gates Foundation Does Care About Po by MadUndergrad · · Score: 3, Funny

    No stronger aphrodisiac than a pile or rotting corpses, eh?

  94. BBOD? by Guppy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't let Microsoft point ultrasonic emitters at your nuts.

    Blue Ball of Death?

    1. Re:BBOD? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Almost. Death of Blue Balls.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:BBOD? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Don't let Microsoft point ultrasonic emitters at your nuts.

      Blue Ball of Death?

      Well, if it's a true BSOD it would be the Bloated Scrotum of Death.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  95. Ultrasound As a Male Contraceptive? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    Well, maybe the UltraSound PnP, but not the UltraSound MAX!

  96. oh boy by greymond · · Score: 1

    Jokes aside this does sound a great alternative to the pill, shot or tube tieing that women have to go through or the needle in the nut and a snip that men have to go through to stop from making the babies.

  97. Frequencies by barzok · · Score: 1

    Must be a different frequency than is used for imaging/diagnostics. I had an ultrasound done on the right side of my nuts last year and 3 months later my wife was knocked up.

    1. Re:Frequencies by dunkelfalke · · Score: 5, Funny

      A 90-year-old man said to his doctor, "I've never felt better. I have an 18-year-old bride who is pregnant with my child. What do you think about that?"

      The doctor considered his question for a minute and then said, "I have an elderly friend who is a hunter and never misses a season. One day when he was going out in a bit of a hurry, he accidentally picked up his umbrella instead of his gun.

      When he got to the Creek, he saw a beaver sitting beside the stream. He raised his umbrella and went, 'bang, bang' and the beaver fell dead. What do you think of that?" The 90-year-old said, "I'd say somebody else shot that beaver."

      The doctor replied, "My point exactly."

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  98. This is not news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not breaking news. Unless you think 33 years is acceptable for reporting a breakthrough.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/407106

  99. Re:First Post by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    Microsoft having access to people's nuts... That could be worrying.

    It's been in the Windows EULA since ME.

  100. New Tags by SoundGuyNoise · · Score: 1

    badvibrations or goodvibrations ?

    --
    You never expect irony, do you?
    Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
    @iyfwrestling
  101. Microsoft plot by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 3, Funny

    The connection is easy. Computer users in third world countries usually don't buy Windows. It's a clever plot on Bill's part with Melinda's blessing to cut down on the number of non-Windows users.

    (and I bet you thought that no one on /. could turn an article on contraception into something anti-Microsoft. Ta-Da!!!)

    Cheers,
    Dave

    P.S. For the humor impaired, just kidding.

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
  102. Well shit by AnonymousX · · Score: 1

    Now I have to wear tinfoil on my cock too.

  103. Yep.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    640 kilohertz ought to be enough for anybody

  104. Hummer joke? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry about getting pregnant, I just had a hummer 3 months ago....

  105. Already been there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One time I had to get this excel spreadsheet done for a sales meeting and it kept crashing, so I've already had my nuts fried by Bill Gates thank you very much.

  106. Re:First Post by Rubinstien · · Score: 1

    You are on /. , I don't think anyone of us has to worry about birth control.

    Speak for yourself. I've been with my wife for 21+ years. She wasn't sure she wanted kids, so we used birth control for almost 5 years after we were married. She decided she wanted a baby; we stopped using birth control and she was pregnant in 3 weeks. We started using birth control again after the first baby was born, until she decided she wanted another 6 years later. It was kind of late in her cycle, so this time it took 5 weeks. She had a tubal during her cesarean, since she was near 40 and therefore considered herself too old to have any more kids. That was over seven years ago. If it weren't for that, we would *still* be using some other method of birth control, multiple times a week :-). And yes, I know they are both mine. They're *way* too much like me to belong to anyone else.

    --Rubinstien

  107. Idiocracy? by kybred · · Score: 2, Funny
  108. Re:First Post by Tolkien · · Score: 1

    Blue balls of death

  109. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    abstinence has a few unacceptable side effects. chief among them is not getting any sex.

  110. How did they discover it? by DanTheLewis · · Score: 1

    Ha ha only serious. What ungodly combination of medical treatment, promiscuity, infertility, and serendipity did it take to discover that ultrasound halts impregnation? What kind of sick doctors are these?

    Enquiring minds want to know.

    --

    Q: What did the comedian say to the crowd?
    A: If I knew, this joke would be funny.
  111. Phht by argStyopa · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    1) get a man to care about contraception
    2) ...
    3) (still waiting for #1)

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Phht by Daxx22 · · Score: 1

      1) Get a man to care about Contraception 2) Have him work in a daycare for a day. 3) SUCCESS!

  112. Nut neutrality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good to see Bill is on the right side of this debate..!

  113. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    Well, lets see.

    A) Have sex and get a woman pregnant (or get pregnant if you are a woman); possibly get or transfer an STI
    or
    B) Not have sex and not worry about any of the above

    I pick B!

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  114. good vibes by hindumagic · · Score: 1

    Brings a whole new concept to feeling the good vibes down there.

  115. Isn't it enough to... by buzzn · · Score: 1

    ... just listen to some Britney Spears?

    --
    Join the window installer's union, where prosperity is a brick throw away!
  116. With all loud car subwoofers... by digsbo · · Score: 1

    ...we should secretly add one of these emitters, working at equal wattage. I hypothesize it could cause a massive drop-off in general douchebaggery and fatherless kids over the next 20 years.

  117. Buzz by paiute · · Score: 1

    What good is a hum job if only mosquitoes can hear it?

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  118. Riggormortis makes my nipples hard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't know I had a 21st finger until my grandma died; she always talked about her husband's one-eyed trout, and my uncle talked about his tentacle, but they were always so much less endowed compared to my 8-inch finger. Smaller packages are the cuteness that women want, and I got the shaft :-/.

  119. Re:First Post by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

    Just want to say, NOT HAPPENING. I'm happy using abstinence as a contraceptive. 100% effective. (:

    Why is your mouth above your eyes?

  120. Re:First Post by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

    Posts like these remind me that the Internet is a lot like Lake Wobegon.

  121. Re:First Post by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

    The funny part of your post is your pretending that the choice is the reason you're stuck with B.

  122. What about Ejaculation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In all seriousness...

    Can people who've had a vasectomy weigh in on how their procedure has affected the volume, taste, or physical qualities of their semen? I've heard both stories regarding volume (it reduces volume, it doesn't reduce volume), and nothing regarding taste and other physical qualities.

    Believe it or not, this is a concern to my girlfriend and I, and I appreciate any informed feedback.

  123. You won't even by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You won't even hear it coming.

  124. How do you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    choose girlfriends like this? Does she have no money? Does she like the idea of being a stay home mom or likes being lazy? Hates work?

    Are you made of money or something?

    1. Re:How do you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, check, check with a circle for the or option, check.

      I was...

      Damn...

    2. Re:How do you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes she was very lazy. It was one of the many things I disliked about her. She was also very unintelligent and had no education beyond highschool. She did a good job at hiding these flaws at first which is how we got together.

      Am I rich? You probably wouldn't consider me rich, but this happened during the dot com boom. She probably expected me to become a multi-billionare.

      The other person replying to you wasn't me. She wasn't successful. Sex during ovulation is more likely to not lead to pregnancy. It takes about 10 tries even if timed right. Through a little luck and a lot of arrogance and ignorance of science on her part, nothing happened. She didn't get pregnant, and her repeated attempts failed since she already told me her plan after the first try when she thought it was a done deal.

      She feels like the most pathetic person I have ever met, but I suspect that people like her are quite common. You might not believe that guy whose ex stole his tissues from the trash but I don't doubt it for a second. She is no more idiotic or petty than the girlfriend I had. She had a stupid plan to get pregnant and believed it had worked before she had any proof. People like that are incapable of being successful in the real world and attempt to force an attachment to someone much smarter and successful like a parasite. Don't let this happen to you. We were lucky. Now we know how important male contraception is. Push for it. Once it is available use it. Think computer security. Don't trust a girl if you don't have to. If she is on birth control, you should use your own. Decrease the chances of pregnancy even more. At the same time you are preventing her from tricking you into an attachment you might not want right now.

  125. I had a vasectomy .. it can take 7 months to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have well functioning balls, this will not work without long term use. After kid #5( hence the reference to well functioning), I had a vasectomy. It took 7 months(it felt like 5 years) before I had a zero sperm count from the medical tests. And that was with doing my thing at least once every two days, and many times much more than that. This sounds like a great new thing, but unless the procedure kills the little buggers, it will not be a solution you can use right away.

  126. damn by A3gis · · Score: 1

    A year too late :(

    1. Re:damn by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1

      A year too late :(

      It's a well known fact that it can be done retroactively. It's just that it's an awful lot of bureaucracy, paperwork and hassle to do it that way.

      --
      Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  127. Re:First Post by mjwx · · Score: 1

    tell that to Mary. You know, the Woman God raped.

    Now she says it's rape.

    She didn't tell me about Joseph either, lying whore.

    Yes son, I just called you mother a whore, lazy sod wont even get up for another three days.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  128. Re:First Post by mjwx · · Score: 1

    A) Have sex and get a woman pregnant (or get pregnant if you are a woman); possibly get or transfer an STI
    or
    B) Not have sex and not worry about any of the above

    C) Use a miraculous device called a Condom and enjoy great sex without worrying about anything.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  129. Handy for Ethnic Cleansing by Mr+Europe · · Score: 1

    What a handy tool for ethnic cleansing. No doubt China will start using it in Tibet in no time !

  130. Re:First Post by fishexe · · Score: 1

    In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.

    Virility-destroying products?

    If you call Bill Gates a product. Virility-destroying, I think we can all agree with.

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  131. Who has the balls for that? by NicknamesAreStupid · · Score: 1

    Not me. You let them do that, and the next thing you know they will be microwaving them.

  132. Sounds like a great idea! by Pirate_Pettit · · Score: 1

    ...So I just stand here in front of this ray-gun looking thing, right? Actually, you go first.

  133. Re:First Post by John+Saffran · · Score: 1

    ..My principal in high school for showing me how to use the soap in the gym showers, the doctor for my first rectal exam..

    I'm disturbed that your post was marked informative

  134. Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Microsoft the clue is in the name :)

  135. How about a Start button? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While Bill's improving human reproduction, how about a Start button?

  136. For whom the balls toll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or is it; For whom the bell tolls?

  137. Re:The B&M Gates Foundation Does Care About Po by Aceticon · · Score: 1

    And yet in most places with high birth rates, the mortality rates have been enormously reduced with the introduction of modern medicine, sanitation and higiene while the birth rates didn't actually decrease, which is why many poor and middle-wealth countries now have exceptionally high population growth rates - same number of births, lower number of deaths.

    In fact, excluding laws to that effect (such as China's One Child Policy) the reduction in birth rates seems to be more correlated with wealth and education than with mortality rates.

  138. Re:First Post by bcmm · · Score: 1
    --
    # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
    Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
  139. So you're a mind reader now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Let me fix that for you to say what your mind was thinking before it edited its output for polite conversation:

    Actually, my mind was thinking that the world will be glad not to have more people like you.

  140. Sadly... your parents didn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop supporting people who can't take care of themselves and the problem solves itself naturally in short order.

    You know... back when you first came out.

    Instead, they've let you live.
    So you can grow up believing "This will never happen to me. And if it did I am sure that I will be strong enough to take it as a man."
    Well... Mr. Bootstrap Man, a suggestion. Next time at the dentist try having your root canal done without anesthetic. Just to show how manly you are.

    Or better yet - burn everything you have now and show us how you can make it all back and more all on your own. Without any help from anyone.
    I am sure that it will all get solved naturally in short order.

  141. There a number of theories by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    It could be as simple as that if mortality rate is high, the only way to give your genes a chance at survival is to have a ton of kids. It could be that when things suck, fucking is one of the only things you can do to have any fun and humans will do it despite the consequences. Could be a combination of things.

    Whatever the case, population growth goes down as quality of life goes up. In first world nations population growth is generally under 1%, and sometimes even slightly negative.

    This was one of the big things that the malthusian types didn't account for. They assumed that people were like bacteria, in that the more ideal the conditions for reproduction, the more they'd do it. With simple organisms it does work that way. Give them lots of food and space and they'll grow and grow at exponential rates. They thought humans would do the same and thus industrialized nations were so fucked because population would explode and crash.

    Well, turns out humans are far more complex and it works the opposite. Improve quality of life, and you see a decrease in reproduction. I mean a normal American household could probably support 20+ kids when you get down to it, and deaths from childbirths is rare due to the medical system we have. There is plenty of food, plenty of space, etc. Nobody says it'd be luxurious living, but we are talking about the ability to have lots of kids and keep them alive. However that's not what people choose to do. They choose to have small families normally, sometimes even no families.

    If we want to slow population growth, the answer is to improve standards of living around the world and get cheap, easy contraception available. Give people a good life and the ability to choose, and you'll find they do choose to have less kids.

  142. A cheaper alternative? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

    Kate Bush singing Wuthering Heights with your headphones in your crotch.

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  143. At least... by Nomaxxx · · Score: 1

    they found a use for all those old Gravis soundcards.

  144. Re:First Post by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

    Boring as shit?

  145. No difference before and after by Interfacer · · Score: 1

    Initially there is a difference due to the fact that internally, the body needs some time to adjust to the fact that no sperm cells are released anymore. A couple of weeks afterward, everything was back as is was before, minus the fertility.

    1. Re:No difference before and after by RebootKid · · Score: 1

      I must disagree. It varies from individual to individual. I was snipped back in September 09. I have yet to get back to the intensity of feeling I had prior to the surgery. I'm not alone either. That said, I still think its worth it. If anyone wants my personal experience, I'm glad to share one on one, I just don't want it indexed by a search engine.

  146. Re:First Post by sparrowhead · · Score: 1

    Bill Gates doesn't buy a slurpee. He buys several slurpee producers, makes smaller slurpees with less flavor and gives them away for free until the majority of competition is gone. Seeing how Bill Gates came to his success, i wouldn't let any product that involved his money get anywhere near my balls.

  147. Re:The B&M Gates Foundation Does Care About Po by Nevynxxx · · Score: 1

    Or possibly it works the other way? You eliminate the disease and people don't worry about having so many children? How does lowering the population reduce the amount of disease?

  148. Club Of Rome Fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you propose that society support people who have 12 kids, like the Octomom?

    Octomom should have been sewn-up and never allowed to reproduce. Yeah, sew her mouth, vagina and anus shut so nothing gets in or out.

    On the other hand, this form of birth-control might be ideal to stop rabbit-like breeding in impoverished countries such as India and China where the population is nothing more than a source of cheap labor for multinational corporations. Can the entire population be temporarily sterilized at one time?

  149. No difference by Interfacer · · Score: 1

    I've replied in a different place in this thread as well, but since you ask...

    Initially, there was an adjustment period of a couple of weeks where the consistency was different (more watery). This lasted a couple of weeks, and I assume it has to do with the body readjusting for the lack of actual sperm cells. After a month or so (no more than 2 months definitely) everything was back to normal. There were no changes whatsoever to anything except fertility.

    A friend of mine had the same treatment done (different hospital) and told me it was just like I said.

    The treatment itself is also nothing to be afraid of. Sure the general scrotum area is a bit sensitive the first couple of days, but a week after the surgery everything was OK. The surgery itself lasted about 20 minutes and was completely painless, involving nothing more than local anesthetic.

  150. CBT - Great or Ouch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like CBT as much as the next guy.
    I like vibrators too.
    So if this hurts just a little, sign me up! After I get going, you can turn up the pain level. Oooooh, that's nice. Right there. THERE, THERE!

    Is there an "insert" available too?

  151. Ouch by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    I don't know about you, but I don't want to let anything near MY testicles,
    especially cold machinery used to temporarily render my balls useless.

  152. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    It's a left-handed smilie (:

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  153. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    orly? I've had more than ample opportunity to rectify said situation if I so chose. I haven't, because I'm quite happy where I am right now. (:

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  154. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    Condom is only about 89% effective against pregnancies and STIs (the percentage is much lower if used improperly, and the percentage is based on "ideal" conditions of use).

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  155. Re:First Post by JustABlitheringIdiot · · Score: 1

    " "this might tingle a little..."

    "..but for an extra 100, it will tingle a lot."

    Hey did we meet last Friday night?

  156. bring Clippy back by Combatso · · Score: 0

    "It looks like you're trying to kill your balls. Can I help?" --aptly named "Clippy"

  157. Do not drink the tap water! by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 1

    They're adding something to it!

  158. Even in the first world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think I read somewhere that there is a noticeable increase in birth rate increase 9 months after funerals (for those that attended said funeral).

  159. Re:First Post by fulldecent · · Score: 1

    ha... Plan A!

    (coming down, I'll bring ice cream)

    --

    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

  160. Re:First Post by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

    How exactly is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation connected to Microsoft? The largest transparently-operated private foundation in the world doesn't have a lot in common with Microsoft Corp. In fact, there's only one thing I can think of that they do have in common.

    All hail the privileged robber baron who now shares a few pennies of his ill gotten gains to promote good publicity. And don't notice what the other hand is doing behind his back. Doesn't anyone read history books any more?

    --
    The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
  161. Microsoft finally has a way to defeat Apple by hydrodog · · Score: 0

    Ok, our operating system and applications may suck, but stop buying Apple products or we'll sterilize your nuts! How many Apple fanboys would choose their Mac over their testicles? I'll bet the number is quite high....

  162. Bullshit--there are many men who want this! by bornagainpenguin · · Score: 1

    1) get a man to care about contraception

    2) ...

    3) (still waiting for #1)

    I know you were going for funny, but the fact is that there are plenty of men who'd love to have the ability to have some form of contraception that doesn't 1) reduce sensation to the point of meaninglessness and 2) rely on the integrity of women seeking to win the baby lottery.

    It isn't the woman who has to risk the next twenty or more years of their financial lives if a pregnancy takes place.

    --bornagainpenguin

    --
    Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
    1. Re:Bullshit--there are many men who want this! by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      "It isn't the woman who has to risk the next twenty or more years of their financial lives if a pregnancy takes place."

      I know there must have been in the history of slashdot a more staggeringly selfish statement, but I don't think I've ever seen it.

      You're right - those silly women are sacrificing their bodies and the next twenty years of their ACTUAL lives (not just financially).

      I'm not saying that some women don't play that game to hook a wealthy/powerful male, but still, your comment is stunning.

      --
      -Styopa
  163. Step One . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put an ultrasound in the box.

  164. Re:First Post by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

    Surely you've heard of denial? It's not just a river in Egypt.

  165. Im a test subject of this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Furck you bill gates!! stop vibrating my testicles! (im serious)

    ( captcha: specimen )
    (had to repost, captcha : dearer)

  166. test subject reporting for help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DOnt erase my posts!
    im serious, i DO feel vibrations in my testicles.

    PLEASE NEED SD HELP!!!!

    how can i kill this nano things? its evil, ugly, deviant, ....

    shall i electrocute my balls? will heat destroy the vibrators? shall i "outvibrate" them?,,,, (lal)

    no seriously, i can provide feedback, just reply to this, and dont erase it, i will reply.

    (captcha : witches )

    1. Re:test subject reporting for help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SOmeone help im serious!!!!!!!
      please it hurts!!!!

      (captcha: subsumed )(wtf does that mean? googling...)

    2. Re:test subject reporting for help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuuuuuuuuuucccckkkkaaaarrrrrrrssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aswear meeeeeeeeeeeee

      man i have to hit G like 20 times to get to see this dirty post of mine, and OFC there wont be answers, im just plain having fun answering my own posts.

      so yes, how da fucc show all comments with just one click? ive yet to find that option (there was a greasemonkey script for the old times slashdot, but not working right now).

    3. Re:test subject reporting for help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I forgot the captcha, it was "sonnets".

      and this one is...

      annuity

    4. Re:test subject reporting for help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone answerme, why do my balls vibrate?

      ctch stratify

    5. Re:test subject reporting for help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A cold story will never be read again.

      spinner

    6. Re:test subject reporting for help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It happened again while i was whining (internally in my thoughts) about stupid slashdot readers reading the stories (the main page) in what is equivalent to a 9" screen.

      WHY THE FCK do we have screens of 17" and even widescreen just to read the text in what is less than 50% of the screen.

      to my knowledge there is no way of widening that text, (well control+mousewheel , but results in terribly fugly layout, worst than original).

      so i was on it, when my balls "ringed".

      may have something to do with myself pissing off, which is what M$ wants to prevent.

      (i say M$ just bc this article mentions that, in fact, the eugenics and population control groups scale up to.... MANY MORE FUCKN PPL. even human right watch ppl would agree on putting ringers in your balls. i know it first hand.).

      lantern

  167. The Gates are eugenicist - be careful! by gabrieltss · · Score: 1

    The Gates are eugenicist - daddy formed planned parenthood - abortion clinics anyone. The gates foundation "donates" lots for "immunizations" and birth control in Africa. Now they want to sterilize your nuts! You really want to have a procedure done that was funded by these people? It's like being jewish and haveing the Nazi's help you with family planning.

    --
    The Truth is a Virus!!!
  168. Re:First Post by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure which world you live in where $28 billion counts as "a few pennies" of his ~$60 billion fortune (do you give half of your wealth?), but maybe you could enlighten the audience as to exactly what Bill is doing behind the scenes that is so nefarious.

    to promote good publicity

    I'm sure by "good publicity" you really meant "world healthcare and education", it's really the same thing right?

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  169. Re:First Post by Phyvo · · Score: 1

    See, you -say- you're happy, but then you're not born again in Jesus... which is it?

    Snarky comments aside, I don't think sex is the key to happiness. Sure, it's pleasurable, but the idea you can't be happy without it? That's quite a leap. There are many things which can make someone happy in life and many good friendships that someone can have which have nothing to do with sex at all. I know because, well, I've experienced them before.

    Everyone (in the US at least) has the constitutional right to pursue happiness as they so choose. You find it hard to believe him, but then do you really know anything about him and what his life is really like?

    Maybe you think you do. I, however, just don't buy that.

  170. Re:First Post by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    Oh, I've heard of it and I'm not in it. (:

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  171. Re:First Post by nizo · · Score: 1

    Actually from personal experience I'd say that sex is the first brick in the road on the way to hell. But then again I am pretty bitter.

  172. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  173. Really now... by X86Daddy · · Score: 1

    What CAN'T the Sonic Screwdriver do?

  174. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  175. "fine tuning, and safety tests"??? by Jedimstr397 · · Score: 1

    Please, where do I sign up to get my nuts zapped with unforeseen and unpredictable results? Sounds completely unappealing. With $100k to play with, looks like the researchers are gonna be balls deep if they don't figure something out.

    --
    This signature has The Force
  176. Re:First Post by MiniMike · · Score: 1

    Bill Gates gave us the Blue Screen of Death. If you get this procedure, could you say you've been Blue Balled by Bill Gates?

  177. Get a powerful enough trasmitter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and we'll be able to sterilize whole ghettos at once! Awesome! Bye-bye welfare! Sure we'll stop winning gold medals in track-and-field events, but I think that's a small price to pay.

  178. Dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given Gates track record I would not suggest letting him within 1,000,000 miles of your reproductive organs. This is about the dumbest idea I've heard. If you don't want to get pregnant, use oral sex during remotely fertile times. If you are willing to run the risk of a child, with all it's wonderful benefits, then use the fertility method carefully. But I would not use the pill, UID or ultrasound. Dumb to even think of it.

  179. It's a TRAP! by pugugly · · Score: 1

    Microsoft is planning to kill off the Early Adopter Gene that is Apple's entire demographic!!!

    --
    An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
  180. Re:First Post by yurtinus · · Score: 1

    That's the entire fault with abstinence only arguments... there is only A) or B), without mentioning the C) through Z) which are all means of having safe enjoyable sex.

    Don't get me wrong though, B) is cool if that's what you want. Less competition on my end, just don't follow those nutjobs with an agenda for removing options C) through Z).

    --
    +1 Disagree
  181. did anyone else think of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "OW MY BALLS!!"

  182. Re:First Post by mjwx · · Score: 1

    Condom is only about 89% effective against pregnancies and STIs (the percentage is much lower if used improperly, and the percentage is based on "ideal" conditions of use).

    In reality, it's effective against 95-99% of fluid born STI's, it's even highly effective aginst STI's that can be transmitted by skin contact like Herpes, but then again Herpes is the least of your concerns. If you actually read the article you quoted it cut the HIV transmission rate by 85%, this does not mean it's only 89% effective. The WHO found HIV transmission reductions decreased 95% with condom use.

    Do not spread FUD to support your bad lifestyle choices, the risk of getting HIV from vaginal intercourse with an infected person in a low income country is 30 out of every 10,000 people, reduce that by 85% and it's 4.5 out of every 10,000, that's infected people, not average people. Compared this to sharing needles (67 out of 10,000 infected sources) and blood transfusions (9,000 out of 10,000 infected sources) and your risk is fairly low even not using a condom.

    Personally I'll take the minuscule risk rather then try to deny my bodies natural tendencies, I've got more chances of dying from a freak tractor accident in the city then contracting HIV. It's the practice of abstinence in Africa that resulted in it's extreme HIV infection rates where SE Asia promoted condom use and have not suffered the predicted levels of HIV infections. Abstinence as a method of pregnancy prevention and STI prevention has been proven not to work.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  183. What a ripoff by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    What a ripoff, at crabrevenge that would cost only £34.99 for the full tingle experience!

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  184. do not want by jasper_amsterdam · · Score: 1

    I fail to understand why this article did not have the usual donotwant tag. =)

    --
    Let's put the genes back in Genesis.