DARPA Seeks App Developers For War App Store

MrSeb writes "DARPA has a problem on its hands: Satellites, unmanned drones (UAVs), and myriad other worldwide sensors are now so ubiquitous and omnipotent that the Department of Defense (DOD) doesn't actually know how to make the best use of them. In other words, the hardware is there, but the software isn't. To tackle this particularly tricky issue, DARPA is looking for smartphone app developers to help build 'sophisticated, adaptive applications.' Yes, DARPA wants to give smartphone developers access to the DOD's fleet of Hellfire missile-equipped UAVs. Instead of using a single, remote pilot to fly just one UAV, DARPA imagines 'an app [...] that allows a swarm of small deployed UAVs to be controlled as a single unit (a hive [mind] so to speak).' DARPA also wants app developers to help out with easy-to-use app interfaces, novel uses of smartphone-like sensors (accelerometers, cameras, gyros) — and ultimately, it wants to make a War Market where a soldier can simply log in with his DOD-issued smartphone or tablet and download Angry UAVs, Nuke Ninja, and other battlefield apps."

Comments

Interesting problem

[LucidBeast]

but, somehow I wouldn't feel good when my code worked in this case

Re:Interesting problem

[masternerdguy]

Imagine how good you'll feel when your code doesn't work and launches a cruise missile at Houston.

Re:Interesting problem

[Lumpy]

Ehhh, Texas is a hard toss... I'm torn.. now if it messes up and aims for the MPAA or RIAA headquarters... Then I'll cheer it on. Or any bank main headquarters, nobody cries over spilt bankers.

Re:Interesting problem

[viperidaenz]

yes but have you ever tried cleaning up banker gibs?

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

Agreed. While the prospect of various enemies overrunning my country is not lost on me, my analytical skills are pointing to a bigger threat within my country than without: namely that the military / security people have gone AWOL, and constitute a bigger threat to the populace than their named greatest enemies.

I don't like the police getting TANKS for internal use, Special Weapons and Tactics for unpaid parking tickets, and Intelligence Agencies running operations inside the country. Writing programs for these people sounds like handing people the very gun they will shoot me with. I've seen enough idealism and irony with the Thin Thread program, where an aloof mathematician couldn't conceive of the possibility of his program being used against the general populace for some below-board practices.

We'll talk about getting your soldiers some nice apps when I stop feeling ashamed about discussing my country with citizens from its allies.

*shakes head*

Something like that...

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

you need the 2GB 580 gtx to render them.. all that sizzling liquid fat needs massive shader pipelines.

Re:Interesting problem

[stealth_finger]

Ehhh, Texas is a hard toss... I'm torn.. now if it messes up and aims for the MPAA or RIAA headquarters... Then I'll cheer it on. Or any bank main headquarters, nobody cries over spilt bankers.

Ah, I must of put a comma instead of a period. I always mess up in some mundane way.....sorry guys.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats in Houston that you hate, NASA?

Re:Interesting problem

[Archangel Michael]

Periods are messy, but so are colons. oh we're talking punctuation here... never mind

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also a rather sad commentary on R&D investment and innovation that so much of it is in the military rather than elsewhere. There seems to be no end of government money for military uses whereas money for research on ordinary science and business uses get cut back endlessly.

Re:Interesting problem

[DarwinSurvivor]

Writing programs for these people sounds like handing people the very gun they will shoot me with.

Wait until they realize they had the enemy design their weapons. "That's strange, I can't seem to target anyone wearing a blue shirt with green pants. Stranger yet, this entire mob of angry geeks appear to be wearing just that."

Re:Interesting problem

[kelemvor4]

when I stop feeling ashamed about discussing my country with citizens from its allies.

Man, that is exactly how I feel lately...

Re:Interesting problem

[c0lo]

but, somehow I wouldn't feel good when my code worked in this case

Would you feel better if your code wouldn't work (e.g. have some bugs or something) but would still be used?

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

Funny, but not a situation I'd prefer to end up in. I have better ways to waste my time than play who has the bigger penis with the military (I do, sorry guys).

Re:Interesting problem

[blankyash]

but, somehow I wouldn't feel good when my code worked in this case

I too would not feel good

Re:Interesting problem

[cavreader]

The vast majority of technology today was developed by the military. Looking down the wrong end of a gun tends motivate research and innovation. The Internet started as a DARPA project. Computer technology, rockets, satellites, nuclear based applications, wireless communication systems, and EM manipulation benefit from the military. The miltary is also invested in creating alternative energy technology. There are military bases in Afghanistan that are using solar power in their bases. Maintaining reliable energy is a major vulnerability for any military. So a great deal of the military budget is used for developing or enhancing new technologies. The military R&D efforts also provide a lot of domestic civilian jobs. The government does not rely on China or any other foreign country to produce their weapon systems. If the military just stops fucking around in the middle east it would lower the operational costs and even more money could be directed towards R&D.

Re:Interesting problem

[cultiv8]

Thays called an easter egg.

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

Anyone else in favor of a constitutional amendment for a "no confidence vote," where the public can hold a referendum at will to dissolve our currently elected officials of their offices, ban them for life from ever holding another position (municipal, state, federal, etc.), and hold general elections for their replacements?

 

Re:Interesting problem

[cavreader]

What allies?

Re:Interesting problem

[FatdogHaiku]

yes but have you ever tried cleaning up banker gibs?

You just sprinkle Holy Water on it and watch the sizzle...

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

It's a sad commentary on our handling of various situations in this world such that we require such a large investment in military expenditures to keep our country safe. I'm not saying that we need to be that most popular guy / girl in our worldwide high-school, nor that we need to sacrifice our principles; what I'm saying is that we seem to be accumulating more enemies with greater strengths than warrants common sense.

A fool fights a war on two fronts, the heir to the kingdom of fools fights a war on twelve fronts.

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

NATO, usually.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

You wussy, you won't not part of the NewWorldOrder(c) with such an attitude!
If you start doubting about things like 911 being an CIA/Mossad inside job ordered by narcissistic globalists in an attempt to enslave Americans unconsciously,
you probably won't be able to write any good piece of software that will do the job.
The President should ban you from Slashdot and kick you off the internet because this attitude is a terror threat to other Slashdotters.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

"must of"

(*rolls eyes*)

Re:Interesting problem

[Nethemas the Great]

Now see, here we have a problem... Given the filth that have come from that place I honestly cannot tell which way you're going with that. The mods think you're insightful but even that could be for reasons that go either way and I find that very disturbing. If this was the goal then well done. If not, then next time please choose another target. Depending on which way you want to go, K Street or Boise, ID for instance...

Re:Interesting problem

[Infernal Device]

Ever been to Houston? A cruise missile would improve the place.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Your self righteous whining is making my dog's ears hurt...

Re:Interesting problem

[misexistentialist]

Might help, but can you really have confidence in the voters? Look at the people we have in office: hard to believe anyone other than themselves and their moms voted for them, but millions of people chose them multiple times! A lot of votes end up being close to 50/50 which doesn't give one confidence that any intelligence is involved in the voting process at all.

Really I wish we had an accurate lie detector so that we could spot those giggling to themselves when taking the oath of office.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I always assumed if you sprinkled holy water on banker gibs, it would just catch fire and burn like molten sulphur (and sounds of ghouls and demons could be heard while it burns).

Re:Interesting problem

[justforgetme]

more accurately the Internet was invented to drop cross continental nukes on the USSR from anywhere
also
the computer got invented to stop getting sunk by "ze Germans"

I don't know if I would like to be a part of this program but the thought of "nuke ninja" is hilarious. maybe icesurfer want's to help!

Re:Interesting problem

[LucidBeast]

Of course not. Thought of killing people with swarming drones turns me off no matter how justified the cause.

Re:Interesting problem

[ACE209]

Or any bank main headquarters, nobody cries over spilt bankers.

You mean like when that WTC mess happened?

Re:Interesting problem

[Genda]

No, no, you're thinking lawyers... You sprinkle holy water on a banker and the place where his heart should be explodes in a rain of gold coins. Sprinkling holy water on a politician, now that is the best show in town... the head pops out, spins 7 times then shouts every lie it ever uttered backwards at the top of its lungs.

"And not content with that, with our hands behind our backs, We pull Jesus from a hat, Get into that! Get into that!" -- Karnevil 9 1st Impressions Part 1

Re:Interesting problem

[sociocapitalist]

The people in power in the US are very happy where they are. Your amendment will never happen without revolution which seems equally unlikely to happen.

I'd also like to see the end of the electoral system and for everyone to get a vote.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

"The vast majority of technology today was developed by the military."

Yes, I know. And in the future perhaps an even greater fraction given the state of investment.

Again, rather a sad commentary.

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

I don't necessarily have any confidence in the voters, but I wouldn't want to deny them a chance to prove that they merit more of my confidence. ;-p

I personally like the idea of the general public being able to look at their government, and say to themselves, "Enough of these people, without prejudice to position or party, leave me without a sense of hope or pride in my country, that I would prefer the option of a No Confidence vote of simultaneously removing every one of them from office and banning them for life, yes, even though there may be a handful of them that I do like."

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

What breed of dog?

Just curious ^_^.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Not gold, silver and generally the amount is 30. And I doubt it's every lie ever told as that would simply take far too long, more likely would say "everything I've ever said".

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Best in-context ELP citation ever !!!!

Re:Interesting problem

[fredrated]

You, sir, are an ass.

Re:Interesting problem

[Bender0x7D1]

This already exists. These votes are scheduled every few years to keep the scheduling simple.

Stop acting like a politician and calling for a new law/amendment when we just have to use the tools we have. Want them out? Vote them out and don't reelect them.

Re:Interesting problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree... I work for a defense contractor, and the operations in the middle east have been bad for business.

The main benefitters from Afghanistan and Iraq - Personnel support contractors
Next winners - People with production contracts for hardware used out there
Small winners - Rapid development/prototyping of small stuff in response to unforseen needs. This is probably 1% of our expenses out there
The losers - Anyone doing R&D not directly related to the war, even though there are still plenty of threats out there, threats which are going to become more significant soon - for example, ASW is going to become important now that North Korea has torpedoed at least one South Korean ship. But people working on ASW are having trouble finding funds because it's all getting wasted on operational costs in the mideast.

Defense R&D employs skilled workers domestically and develops new technologies, it's good for the country and good for the economy.
Running a war just consumes fuel and spare parts and salaries, and results in numerous deaths. It's bad for the country and bad for the economy.

Re:Interesting problem

[Metabolife]

Would you feel better if the government admitted they were attacking those foreign pigs with avians?

Re:Interesting problem

[x6060]

That's a Babylon 5 quote. at least give credit where credit is due.

Re:Interesting problem

[cusco]

Sorry, but this is the biggest freaking **WTF???** post that I've ever seen on SlashDot. The military invented satellites? You might want to dig up a fellow named Tsoilkovsky and ask him about that. And Tesla may have something to say about your assertion that the military invented wireless communication systems.

BTW, the frequently-reported claim that DARPA invented the Internet isn't actually true, either. They paid for the documentation and specifications around a system that some sys admins had already cobbled together on their own. Essentially the sales guys saw what they had done so that they only needed one dumb terminal on their desk instead of four and said, "We can bill for that!"

I don't normally throw around insults, but but if you're not trolling then you're the dumbest tool here. When the military actually pays to invent something useful they then classify the results so that no one else can use it for years and years. There are entire fields of research in microprocessor design that Intel and AMD can't pursue for commercial use because the Pentagram paid for the basic development and promptly classified it.

Re:Interesting problem

[lightknight]

Fair enough. The above quote was sequestered from Londo Mollari.

Re:Interesting problem

[DocSavage64109]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Re:Interesting problem

[cavreader]

The US military military has advanced and funded the satellite and other technologies in use today. It's one thing for a scientist to publish their research but they do not usually get involved in actually turning their theories and discoveries into usable and practical technology. It is the engineers who take the scientist data and figure out a way to implement it. And what is the military preventing Intel and other similar companies from producing? I know for a fact there are certain technologies in use in advanced weaponry such as the F-22 but I consider that a justifiable measure. Other countries will catch up eventually but why make it easy for them? Classified military technology is warranted. And I am the biggest tool around if we remove your presence from the site.

First War App

[ExploHD]

The first app in the War Store will probably be Angry Birds
Training first!

Re:First War App

[lightknight]

Mafia Wars. It must be Mafia Wars.

Or some sort of porn app, that automatically downloads new material in the background according to your preferences.

Industrial war complex?

[Anonymous Coward]

In my America? It's more likely than you think.

Re:Industrial war complex?

[Ethanol-fueled]

All of you fuckers laughed at me and modded me down when I told you that Metal Gear Solid 4 was a documentary and not a video game.

Re:Industrial war complex?

[lightknight]

They don't have a battery to power those things yet, and probably never will.

I think scientists, the smarter ones, learned from the Manhattan Project and its outcome, and are subconsciously stalling from finding that particular advance. No one wants to be responsible for WWIII, even if we can "win it."

And to be honest, having read up on the research regarding the human genome, we're doomed as a species if we have another world war or implement any sort of attempt to reduce global population. It's only our explosive growth that has kept the human genome from degrading into something truly horrible. A consequence of various plagues and earlier wars, I'm afraid.

Tick tock, goes the clock, until the human race runs out of time.

Let the H1_B visas and outsourcing begin !

[NemoinSpace]

sigh.

Bombing? There's an app for that...

[Lumpy]

Bomb the lead car lite... A great new ad supported Drone app that will automatically bomb the lead car in any convoy you point it at. Unobtrusive ad's and a limit of 2 convoy bombing per day. Upgrade to the full pro app today for only $29.99!

What a worthy cause

[musth]

Go for it, amoral developers of the world, willing to work for anyone that delivers your required amount of $$$.

Re:What a worthy cause

[Frangible]

As you use DARPA's "amoral" creations like GPS, the internet, and Siri. Remember, every time you use satellite navigation, you support the military-industrial complex! Of course, you can also use GLONASS now simultaneously with the same receiver (on newer models), so you can support the American and Russian military-industrial complexes at the same time. Where does THAT bumper sticker go on your Prius?

Re:What a worthy cause

[lightknight]

That's another sticking point. They won't pay nearly enough to attract the kinds of talent they might want, and the kinds of talent they want do not, from a longevity standpoint, want to work for them.

Re:What a worthy cause

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because that's the exact same thing as specifically developing tools for them to use in wars.

I mean, if someone developed a tool that the military used, that isn't the same thing as developing a tool specifically for the military. Nor is it the same thing as using a tool that was, in the past, developed for the military.

Bad, bad analogy.

Re:What a worthy cause

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd be surprised what some people are willing to do for bragging rights alone.

Re:What a worthy cause

[lightknight]

Yeah, see, the kinds of people who would work for them for bragging rights are not exactly the most talented people in the business.

The vast majority of those people are what are lovingly referred to as "Script Kiddies," and occupy a position in the grand hierarchy sandwiched between VB coders and spammers.

I give you Exhibit A: http://twitter.com/th3j35t3r

Re:What a worthy cause

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because specifically developing tools for use in war always leads to more deaths/harm/malevolence, and never leads to less.

I mean, if someone developed a tool to allow the military to gather, sort, and utilize more intelligence, it seems likely they would simply kill the same people they intend to kill without that intelligence, but with potentially far less collateral damage.

Bad, bad ethical reasoning.

Re:What a worthy cause

[jovius]

The threat paradigm is not the necessary motivation to develop new technology. I'd gladly develop tech that reaches and helps people of the world to better communicate and understand each other for instance. It's just the other way to say it and it wouldn't support paranoid closed source thinking. Besides you could probably invent ten internets with the billions that DOD has just lost in the desert adventures.

I don't know what the terms of the war app store could be, but if people from around the world can develop apps for it then DARPA would head the global arms development, which is kind of a good thing because of the balance of forces. The real kicker would be to demand all software be open source.

Re:What a worthy cause

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol. Ok, I give you Exhibit B:
http://boingboing.net/2010/08/23/danish-makers-aim-to.html

Re:What a worthy cause

[cusco]

Screw GPS, I **LIKE** reading maps.

Re:What a worthy cause

[Pope]

Having both and knowing when to use and/or trust each is even more valuable.

Great,

[Anonymous Coward]

what could possibly go wrong!

Re:Great,

[c0lo]

what could possibly go wrong!

TFS:

...'sophisticated, adaptive applications.'... that allows a swarm of small deployed UAVs to be controlled...with easy-to-use app interfaces

Requirements lead to the need of a lot of "intelligence" be moved inside the app.

Meaning:
1. DARPA is scrapping the barrel for intelligent human operators (to pilot the UAV-es)
2. DARPA is naive enough to trust complex software be bug free and secure
3. both of the above

A bonus if the DARPA's choice for the OS platform is MS Windows.

A huge bonus if the resulted app is so sophisticated and easy-to-use that it can be operated directly by GWB, Obama, Michelle Bachman or... hang on... Vermin Supreme of Rockport, Mass. - without UAV-jockeys in between.

Re:Great,

[Hythlodaeus]

DARPA doesn't recruit UAV pilots - it does R&D to meet the needs of the service branches. The USAF on the other hand wants all the UAV pilots it can get its hands on. I've heard from people in the air force that once you are trained to fly UAVs it is basically impossible to get transferred to anything else because the UAV stations are so undermanned. Of course that means they work the pilots so hard, and don't let them transfer, so retention is poor, keeping the cycle going.

Stop the press...

[Turnerj]

...DARPA has a problem!

Finally!

[Anonymous Coward]

iWar

Re:Finally!

[theshowmecanuck]

controlled as a single unit (a hive [mind] so to speak).'

Too bad they didn't talk to Steve Jobs before he died, I'm sure he could have given them some ideas.

Re:Finally!

[ttong]

I'm sure he'd manage to make an iTunes visualisation of the missile trajectories and allow the UAVs to reload using in-app purchases.

Oops I just lost my phone

[youn]

what coul possibly go wrong? :)

Re:Oops I just lost my phone

[Pope]

Run "Find My Phone." If it's moving, destroy the target!

How much is the dev kit? :)

[Assmasher]

What do I need to run the simulator too? Lol... DARPA, they rock because they do crazy sh** all the time and sometimes it works out great.

Re:Awesome

[dev391]

U mad?

Better stay away from xcode

[zill]

I know this is just legal boilerplate, but it makes my laugh every time a military–industrial complex related story comes up:

SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR XCODE
8. Export Control... You also agree that you will not use the Developer Software for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of missiles, nuclear, chemical or biological weapons.

Re:Better stay away from xcode

[lightknight]

What about weapons that aren't on that list? ;-)

Re:Better stay away from xcode

[zill]

including, without limitation,

iANAL, but I think "including, without limitation" means "specifically the following list of things, but also generally applies to everything not specifically listed.".

Re:Better stay away from xcode

[colinrichardday]

Nice, but if you use it to destroy the US, who's going to sue you?

Re:Better stay away from xcode

[zill]

I'm pretty sure Apple lawyers can survive a WMD attack. I've heard... stories.

Re:Better stay away from xcode

[mirix]

Pretty standard, I've seen similar disclaimers on hardware (microcontrollers, IIRC). The govnt is naturally exempt, but they need to pay a lot more, and take on the liability.

(trying to google to figure out which manufacturer I had seen it on.. I was thinking microchip. During the search, I've discovered that apparently itunes cannot be used on nuclear weapons. Ain't that a shame.)

Re:Better stay away from xcode

[colinrichardday]

I thought that was Microsoft lawyers.

http://www.awpi.com/Combs/Humor/borg-micro.html

the software already exists

[wdebruij]

Just hook all that hardware up to the C&C generals engine.

This also offers an easy downgrade path in case geopolitics change again.

A hive mind? To control drones?

[GoodNewsJimDotCom]

I got this one : Spawn more overlords.

Re:A hive mind? To control drones?

[mkiwi]

We require more minerals!

It must be a sign of my age...

[Anonymous Coward]

...that I remember when we wanted applications to be simple, yet powerful...complicated usually meant broken...now it's all the rage...kids these days

Hundreds of Military grade...

[s0litaire]

... fart apps in 3...2...1...
^_^

Re:Hundreds of Military grade...

[Lumpy]

biological Gas is banned by the Geneva convention. Sorry, no fart apps...

Re:Hundreds of Military grade...

[colinrichardday]

Methane (with a proper odorant) isn't banned. What if the sheer explosiveness of the fart is military grade?

Re:Hundreds of Military grade...

[colinrichardday]

Or you could light such a methane fart. Should be a decent flamethrower.

Obligatory ...

[jasonmanley]

Say I'm working at the DARPA, and somebody puts a code on my desk, somethin' no one else can break. Maybe I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, cus' I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in... ...North Africa or the Middle East and once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels are hiding... Fifteen hundred people that I never met, never had no problem with get killed. Now the politicians are sayin', "Oh, Send in the marines to secure the area" cus' they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, cus' they were off pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some kid from Southie over there takin' shrapnel in the ass. He comes back to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, cus' he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile he realizes the only reason he was over there in the first place was so that we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the little skirmish over there to scare up domestic oil prices. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. They're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back, of course, maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and fuckin' play slalom with the icebergs, it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So now my buddy's out of work. He can't afford to drive, so he's walking to the fuckin' job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starvin' cus' every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what did I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. I figure fuck it, while I'm at it why not just shoot my buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected President.

Re:Obligatory ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure this is copypasta, but I don't think you know what DARPA does.

Re:Obligatory ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah....Good Will Hunting...Classic.

Re:Obligatory ...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's from "Good Will Hunting" and it's a monologue about the dilemma's presented by having the intelligence to see the potential consequences of your actions.

Frankly, I don't think this level of foresight is limited to child prodigies, but more logical minds tend to be less clouded by emotion & desire, which has the impact of making them less susceptible to justifications like the following:

"If you're worried about the ethics of doing this, here are some suggestions to help you cope:

My family comes first
I'm not responsible for how things are used
I'm not the only one on this project
If I don't do it, someone else will
One person won't have an effect
Only the good guys will use them
They'll never be used on innocent civilians
They'll never be used on Americans
This will protect my country and make it strong
I trust my government
Pick one or more that helps ease your mind."

Maybe "less rational" minds have the right idea. Selfish disregard for the good of society as a whole shoots down fewer career paths, & pays much better.

Moral hang ups are for people who think recycling glass bottles forgives having 6 children. Moral Accounting is for people who hate money. Evolution has a cure for the latter, and it may be the very downward pressure discouraging higher IQs from proliferating.

Smart enough to feed yourself & survive childhood, dumb enough to reproduce. The fate of human DNA depends on you.

Army needs help with Spec Ops Mission!

[josteos]

Join MILville today and get 25 free Drone Credits!

One star

[XahXhaX]

Did not kill the terrorists. Didn't win the war. Crashed twice on startup.
Fix the crashes and maybe I'll give it five stars.

Re:One star

[Anonymous Coward]

will that be Death Stars?

New App

[cyachallenge]

"Let's play Global Thermonuclear War"

Re:New App

[lightknight]

I have a better, more challenging game: "Get your honest politician elected."

You must somehow keep your chosen champion from making any false promises or accepting lobbyist donations while running a clean campaign. Comes with three (gradually increasing) levels of difficulty: Municipal (easiest), State, and Federal (hardest).

Re:New App

[phantomfive]

I have a better, more challenging game: "Get your honest politician elected."

The reason unethical politicians keep getting elected is because voters would rather have someone unethical who does what they want than someone ethical who does what they don't want.

idea

[roman_mir]

I have an idea - do more iPhones, less weapons.

Finally!

[lcllam]

The years spent playing Starcraft will pay off!!! OTOH, the Koreans will take over the world.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah. You gay? You sure like looking at gaped assholes.

Programmer ethics

[Okian Warrior]

If you're worried about the ethics of doing this, here are some suggestions to help you cope:

• My family comes first
• I'm not responsible for how things are used
• I'm not the only one on this project
• If I don't do it, someone else will
• One person won't have an effect
• Only the good guys will use them
• They'll never be used on innocent civilians
• They'll never be used on Americans
• This will protect my country and make it strong
• I trust my government

Pick one or more that helps ease your mind.

Re:Programmer ethics

[keepper]

Oh nice.. another ( i'm hollier than though morality ) comment

Brought to you by(tm).... the internet... a DARPA/(Military industrial complex) sponsored project....
Made possible by (tm).. Xray litography... another child of a military sponsored project...

I can keep going. :)

go with your BS somewhere else..

Re:Programmer ethics

[arielCo]

Speaking of drones ... WHOOOSH
Better take that sarcasmometer for a checkup!

Re:Programmer ethics

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Brought to you by(tm).... the internet... a DARPA/(Military industrial complex) sponsored project....
Made possible by (tm).. Xray litography... another child of a military sponsored project...

That's a false equivalency. You might as well argue that creating Tang was morally equivalent to weaponizing anthrax.

Re:Programmer ethics

[FooAtWFU]

You speak of "rationalization". I demand an explanation of the mechanism you are using to attach Guilt to the developers of these applications, that we may assess the merits of your reasoning. While you're at it, please consider:

"If I don't do it, someone else will".

This is actually true.

"They'll never be used on innocent civilians / They'll never be used on Americans".

If things get to the point that these are, in fact, used on innocent civilian Americans, how substantial of a difference will these innovations make? The Nazis and the Soviets were able set up some pretty repressive regimes without the benefits of a military iPad, only guns and tanks... and they were hardly even the first tyrants.

Is it reasonable to expect that hindering the development of military software will materially protect truth, justice, freedom, and the American way? Is it reasonable to conclude that developing such software will produce material harm to such things? Explain, including comparison and contrast with status quo military capabilities, including nuclear weapons.

(Disclaimers. I am challenging your assertions, but I recognize that these challenges may be answerable. Reference to "the American Way" above is a cultural allusion and is not an assertion of the value of any particular facet or behavior of America as a cultural, political, or military entity, nor is it an invitation to critique of the same. Please note that I don't program for the military, or even for advertisers. No substitutions, exceptions or refunds.)

Re:Programmer ethics

[Okian Warrior]

Ethics comes in levels, or layers if you like. The different layers direct our actions, so that to have integrity in one layer means that you have to be consistent in your actions according to the rules of that layer.

At the lowest layer, everyone's actions are assumed to benefit themselves. We take the action that gives us the immediate benefit. Steal or kill depending on your needs, simply because it benefits you. Contract killers and pickpockets live at this level.

The next layer up is honor; loosely, it means "I keep my promises". If I say I will or won't do something, you can rely on my word from then on. If I get into an agreement with someone, I will keep it.

This layer overrides the lowest layer. If I'm in a position where I can break a promise because it benefits me, I have to refuse, and if I'm in a position where keeping a promise hurts me, then I have to accept the consequences to still be considered honourable. Keeping honour is hard - you have to be careful of the promises you make. Successful but ruthless businessmen live at this level.

The next layer is good versus evil; loosely, it means "I don't cause suffering in others". I cannot take actions which hurt others, and if my actions inadvertently hurt others I have to stop. Once again, this is more important than lower layers, so that if I have to lose my honour to prevent suffering, I must do it.

It is especially difficult to keep three levels of ethics, but humanity has always admired the people who do. Some successful businessmen live at this level, as did famous pacifists such as King, Gandhi, Buddha, and Jesus. (And yes, nobody's perfect.)

There are other layers which account for the obvious objections you will come up with. It's not difficult to construct a strong logical foundation for complete ethical behaviour that satisfies all of your objections, but it's beyond the scope here. It only takes a little thought, and you should be able to deduce it on your own.

The important part is that the layers require courage - the courage to stand by your convictions even though it may be disadvantageous at the time. Anyone can say that they are against child sweatshop labor, but when given a choice between sneakers costing $80 or $140, which ones do you buy?

Without the courage of your convictions, your ethics have no meaning. You are only be espousing what good ethics should be in others.

I'm proposing that in order to satisfy the level of not causing suffering in others, people should be courageous enough to refuse a job offer. This may put people in a difficult position - they may be all the worse because they can't otherwise find a job - but that's the price we pay for integrity: loyalty to our convictions.

This is all basic stuff, things that should be obvious.

If you haven't chosen the path of ethics, if you either don't care about the suffering of others or if you believe other considerations are more important (patriotism to your country, for instance), then by all means take the job. You will most probably receive an excellent income.

Is it reasonable to expect that hindering the development of military software will materially protect truth, justice, freedom, and the American way? ...

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter whether your actions will have an effect, in the same way that it doesn't matter whether anyone knows what you do. Ethics is a personal choice, it's the stock you take in your life, it's the mirror you hold up to yourself.

If contributing to a "War App Store" doesn't bother you, then by all means take the job.

Re:Programmer ethics

[Anonymous Coward]

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun.

Re:Programmer ethics

[HyperQuantum]

My family comes first

Those creations could be used against your family later. And how will your family think of you when they find out?

I'm not responsible for how things are used

But you *are* responsible for what the thing was designed to do.

I'm not the only one on this project

Usually people committing crimes work in groups as well.

If I don't do it, someone else will

So better be the one who profits from it first?

One person won't have an effect

Ever heard of the Butterfly Effect?

Only the good guys will use them

There are no "good guys", only guys that could use your inventions in ways you'd expect or ways you'd never imagine.

They'll never be used on innocent civilians

Well, who decides to whom the adjective "innocent" applies? You?

They'll never be used on Americans

How do you know that? And why would Americans be more valuable than people from other countries?

This will protect my country and make it strong

Why is your country more important than others?

I trust my government

You do? Even if you do now, you don't know how things can change over time. Your government could change completely, but then it would be too late to undo what you did.

Re:Programmer ethics

[fredrated]

You are an ass.

Re:Programmer ethics

[Anonymous Coward]

All engineering work of any significance runs the risk of the injury or death to innocents, whether it be automobiles, baby cribs, lawnmowers, etc. Most of the statements in the parent post apply equally as well to those as to weapons; were engineers to take no chances on ever doing harm, nothing would ever get built.

Forget the silly list of strawmen that the parent poster put up, this is the only statement a weapons engineer needs to ease his mind: "In full awareness that my work is guaranteed to cause harm or death to innocents and the moral burden that entails, it is my reasoned, albeit fallible, judgement that the net benefit to the human race by developing this weapon outweighs the harm it will inevitably cause." Replace "guaranteed"/"inevitably" with "possibly" and "weapon" with "project" and it is no less true.

Re:Programmer ethics

[powerlord]

Brought to you by(tm).... the internet... a DARPA/(Military industrial complex) sponsored project....
Made possible by (tm).. Xray litography... another child of a military sponsored project...

That's a false equivalency. You might as well argue that creating Tang was morally equivalent to weaponizing anthrax.

Have you actually tried Tang? ~

Re:Programmer ethics

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations, HyperQuantum! You have successfully knocked down the straw men that the OP set up, just as he intended. Your prize is a dunce cap and a voucher for a free remedial class on detecting sarcasm.

Re:Programmer ethics

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I pick "I don't give a damn?" or "I enjoy writing apps that will make killing people easier?" Who died and left you in charge of other people's ethics anyway?

Imagine the soldier of the future

[Anonymous Coward]

I can just imagine the briefing: "You have a budget of $50 000 000 for this operation; spend it wisely. We recommend you start by downloading the budgeting app - it helps you optimise your expenditure on drones."

Would make a rather cool game, in fact: balance your expenditure on drones and armaments vs impact on the enemy. No more ammo limits - just credit limits :)

Suggests the soldier of the future will be an RTS geek, not a muscle-man.

Iron Man

[burning_plastic]

There was an Iron Man storyline (Stark Resilient) not too long ago that had a game app being released that pretended that real missions were actually part of the game, with the players controlling UAVs...

Re:Iron Man

[FooAtWFU]

Congratulations. You have also just described 75% of the plot of Ender's Game.

Re:Iron Man

[Anonymous Coward]

They also wanted to do that in Half-Life 2 with the "Manhack Arcade", but it got cut in development.

Re:Bombing? There's an app for that...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're clearly new to government contracting... that 29.99 should be followed by the word 'billion'

solution:

[Gravis Zero]

hire intelligent people instead of just the usual cronies.

Re:solution:

[lightknight]

They don't have enough money to do that. There's some sort of conflict between the military mindset and the creative geniuses out there.

Auto-aim

[Anonymous Coward]

Any chance for an auto-aim targetting RIAA and MPAA headquarters?

Re:Bombing? There's an app for that...

[game kid]

Oh, come on. His post's good enough for government work.

Documents Containing More info:

[Memroid]

PDF with full details available at:
https://www.fbo.gov/spg/ODA/DARPA/CMO/DARPA-BAA-12-11/listing.html

Press release at:
http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2011/12/05.aspx

Re:Documents Containing More info:

[Memroid]

Based on the documents contained in the parent post, it sounds like your company or organization would be acting as a government contractor. As with similar contractor work, you submit a full proposal with bid. This in no way relates to how an app store may work.

Still old school:

[Hartree]

"Angry UAVs, Nuke Ninja, and other battlefield apps"

I'm still stuck with the naPalm Pilot you insensitive clods.

http://www.lorax.org/~arosin/napalm.pdf

Fuck the system

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck the system

US Wars

[Anonymous Coward]

Episode 1: The Phantom Terrorist
Episode 2: The Drone Wars
Episode 3: Revenge of the Rove
Episode 4: A New Haarp
Episode 5: The US Strikes Back
Episode 6: Return of the Voter

Re:US Wars

[colinrichardday]

Episode 6: Return of the Voter

Isn't science fiction suppose to be somewhat realistic?

so many kinds of wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't even know where to begin. Let's leaveit at Force-close.

Who would feel ethically OK with doing this?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.acm.org/about/se-code
Well, I guess if we ignore the first principle of the Software Engineering Code of Ethics...

Re:Bombing? There's an app for that...

[colinrichardday]

Government work, yes. Xe, no. That's Xe the former Blackwater, not xenon.

Broken Window Fallacy

[Anonymous Coward]

We could have developed all of those things without military objectives. But it is easier to justify the costs to the public if you claim it is for national security -- in much the same way as "protecting the children" is used to justify censorship and Internet surveillance.

Re:Broken Window Fallacy

[cavreader]

What is the US censoring on the net? And everyone, from the average citizen to the government monitors the information flowing through the Internet and is usually defined as browsing. The US does not firewall Internet access like the Chinese try to do.

Re:Broken Window Fallacy

[Hythlodaeus]

We could have, but we wouldn't have - at least not in the same decade as we did.

War is supposed to be...

[Nethemas the Great]

bloody, messy, cost countless lives (for both sides) and be completely abhorrent. It's supposed to be that way because that's the only way to not have war. If we make it nice, clean, neat, and remote then the victor can tell any tale they want. Slaughtered millions at the hands of robot jocks thousands of miles away? No, they surrendered peacefully with minimal bloodshed. Thousands of casualties taking out the enemy HQ? No, it was a precision strike that killed only the bad guys. Not even dust settled on the neighboring buildings... This pursuit is shameful.

Re:War is supposed to be...

[Infernal Device]

Sure, but the important thing is: how much do I score for taking out a village of unarmed peasants who are so poor that dirt farming is a step up and what can I get at the DARPA online auction house for it?

The app store every programmer wants to be in ...

[damn_registrars]

After all, when your customer has unlimited funds, you can charge as much as you want for your app.

Thin Thread started before 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

and if it had been implemented properly, it might have stopped 9/11.

then, instead of sitting around discussing "how much is it OK to torture someone" and "can we assassinate US citizens", we would be sitting around arguing about whether or not the government should be allowed to store encrypted versions of international telecommunications and what kind of warrants they should have to have to decrypt them.

Re:Thin Thread started before 9/11

[lightknight]

Then again, it probably wouldn't have. The Intelligence agencies, from what I gather, already had information that such a plan was in the works, but did not deem it credible information. A simple mistake, that cost people their lives, and one not remedied by the granting of additional powers. I grant that our Intelligence agencies are staffed with human beings, and as such, they do make human mistakes from time to time.

As for Thin Thread, part of the problem is that it (or another program like it) is (are) being used at home. Not for international calls, but on standard domestic phone calls (and what not), on our own citizens. The encryption of the database containing such data, in so far as it has been gathered, is of a secondary concern, to the primary concern of an Intelligence Agency that, by law, is not allowed to be doing what they're doing. Depending on your political philosophy, that may or may not bother you.

Re:Thin Thread started before 9/11

[cusco]

Considering that pretty much everyone who managed to make the 'mistakes' that allowed the WTC attacks to happen, including the guys that ran the visa program and that allowed Atta to re-enter the country with expired visas, got bonuses, promotions and 'outstanding' performance reviews I think the 'mistake' worked out pretty well for them.

Re:Thin Thread started before 9/11

[lightknight]

Yeah, that bothers me as well.

Like Skynet?

[aristotle-dude]

Instead of using a single, remote pilot to fly just one UAV, DARPA imagines 'an app that allows a swarm of small deployed UAVs to be controlled as a single unit (a hive [mind] so to speak)'.

What could possibly go wrong?

Re:Like Skynet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone else kinda cringe hearing that? So it begins...

uuddlrlrba

[johnrpenner]

oh great, the hellfire missiles are coming in.. and your enemy just discovered they can do: uuddlrlrba to disable your whole swarm of UAVs.

opening up mission critical apps to game devs who are used to putting in back-doors and cheat codes without line-by-line code review when lives are on the line?!?! hmmm..

Dark blue wool coat with replica designer bags

[Anonymous Coward]

Dark blue wool coat with replica designer bags
Want handsome woman flavour, that this kind of have attracted? Enchanting blue strong impact people's aesthetic, very intense color, must be the woman in the heart of love. But in part of the collar was designed white surrounding edge, and a uniform temptation? Still have anything to say, boots felt familiar? The weather suddenly change, is still not to fit in? You must want to keep warm and clothes and fashion, every year autumn winter season in almirah of are not the dress is wool coat, this year a new pattern, individual character is handsome and mature elegance, after all, you want to style must have. To be more beautiful , you may be want a replica designer bags , it may be a replica gucci , or replica Omega , they are all nice choice , whice one you like very much , you can have one , because this style jeans will become more fashion if you carry a fashione and nice handbag.

Suffering in others and inaction

[SuperKendall]

The next layer is good versus evil; loosely, it means "I don't cause suffering in others". I cannot take actions which hurt others, and if my actions inadvertently hurt others I have to stop

But, this layer then would also require you to not cause suffering through INACTION.

That is the reason I would strongly consider taking a job developing mobile applications for the military. Because on the whole the world has less suffering form the existence of a strong U.S. military than it would without. And that's not even factoring in possible humanitarian uses like the "swarm of UAVs" used in search and rescue after a disaster...

By your own guidelines, I would think one would be in fact compelled to apply for such a job even if it meant overcoming some personal difficulty to do so, because again of the compulsion to avoid harm to others.

Re:Suffering in others and inaction

[Okian Warrior]

Inaction is dealt with in a higher layer, and action taken against someone is in a layer even higher than that.

As mentioned, without the entire framework one can easily construct trivial arguments that make the ethical system seem inconsistent, or which appear to encourage unethical behaviour.

Yes, that layer compels one to reduce suffering by taking action. If you stop at this layer, you can justify forcing people into rehab centers against their will - for just about any reason. Drug use, smoking, obesity, promiscuity, poor personal habits, being gay... anything which in your view will cause someone suffering can be "corrected" with appropriate intervention.

However, we hold the doctrine of "individual dissent" to be at a level higher than honour or ethics. People have the right to choose for themselves. We can *offer* help, but we cannot *force* them to accept it.

It's the old saw "give a man a fish, teach a man to fish". Teaching is clearly the better option, but what if they simply don't want to be taught? Can we force it on them?

Look to your history for examples: did Gandhi advocate using force? Did Jesus? King? How about the reverse: how does history regard eugenics? Hitler?

This is really fundamental stuff that teenagers are supposed to figure out in high school. It's not like there aren't schools of thought that teach it or historical examples to learn from.

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with the "algebra" of ethics. Can you deduce the next layer? The one after that? Are there people whose ethical stance you admire? Can you compare yourself favourably to them? Is your personal hierarchy self-consistent?

And here's the big question, the first one you should ask (of yourself): Is any of this important to you?

Imagine...

[Anonymous Coward]

Angry Birds DARPA

Re:What is the US censoring on the net?

[ACE209]

no need to filter when you can seize the whole domain.
http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/public-sector/3321625/us-seizes-domain-names-of-foreign-sites/

"Stupid is as stupid does"

[J4]

What could possibly go wrong?

Microsoft's response

[Megane]

"It's time to bring Clippy back!"

"I see you're trying to fire artillery, would you like some help with that?"

THIS IS SICK

[Anonymous Coward]

The precious AI research in the hands of the idiots in Washington.... This will result in a total failure for the world.

SQL injection

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if anyone's considered security

It sounds like these apps will be designed pretty fast and loose (they're trying to speed up the response cycle, so they want faster development/deployment)

They're also going to share defence services and access to defence databases with the apps

Surely it won't be that hard to find an app vulnerable to SQL injection (the apps will just be thick clients to a server no doubt), or even just rooting the server and accessing the services directly

If any of those services or DB's contain information on the location of assets (vehicles, planes, people), you can imagine that live feed getting fed straight into enemy artillery lines, who proceed to have a field day on anything within 30km's

It's true war is won by the team with the fastest response cycle, but if they don't get the security right on these 'fast and loose' apps they're going to competely lose the information war, which is by and large becoming the battle you want to win

Battlezone (1998)

[wcrowe]

I am reminded of Battlezone (1998 version). I don't know about a "swarm", but I imagine one person could manage three or four drones pretty easily if the interface was good enough, and the drones were semi-autonomous.

Is this the dumbing down of the US Military?

[jerryjnormandin]

I was talking to a coworker that used to work at the same Defense Contractor as myself. I am disturbed by the fact that Command Control Systems are written in JAVA! Java is fine for web applications, but NOT AN APPLICATION THAT NEEDS TO PROCESS DATA IN REALTIME! Defense contractors look for programmers with JAVA experience. Why ? Because the colleges and universities are dumbing down technology. If you want fast code, it's got to be written in at least C. Or better yet, Assembly Code. Machine Code is the fastest, we all know that. When people argue that today's processors are much faster I like to see them running a Command Control system during a battle and the damn code is tied up due to garbage collection. Imagine how fast the control system would be if it was coded correctly in C. Now DARPA wants phone apps ? Who here on slashdot has a new Droid ? What if you are out and the phone is rebooting ? Also Android is insecure. Are you going to trust a java based application in the battlefield ? NOT ME. Java's place in the military is possibly running the front end of a mobile based webapp for barcode scanning inventory. That's about it. This is what happens when you have bean counters in stead of engineers lead projects. Java was never designed for the battlefield. There are issue with hive technology too. This is why distributed computing is the way to go. what happens with a hive? Take out the queen or in this case, central computer. The intelligence should be distributed. Even if the hive is distributed geographically, all you need to do is take out communications. Some people say spread spectrum is secure. I say what happens when you take out the entire spectrum ? It can be done.

This isn't a joke

[fortapocalypse]

It makes sense for DARPA to do this, because it reduces the chance of a soldier using technology/software that is insecure. My first reaction was to laugh as well, but it makes a lot more since for the military to use an App Store, even more so than it does to have one in OS X and Windows.

Sign Me Up to help defend America

[pimpsoftcom]

.. I always wanted to be like Tony Stark.

Administration

[Anonymous Coward]

Strange, if GWB were still in office, this discussion would be full of people saying this is just proof of his warmongering. Yet, when someone else is in office, nothing.

Angry Missiles

[Anonymous Coward]

And before installing the app, the infantry will be required to accept the TOS and Privacy policy, and if he doesn't wait at least 2-minutes before continuing.. god have mercy on his soul.

Flight like a video game, design like a video game

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems like to me that they want to make program/app to control a bunch of different complex platforms but make it really easy to use. I think the best way to do it, would be use a video game virtual model that closely represents the real world and start building an app that gamers could use to use similar weapons platforms in games, and refine the product in the virtual world with millions of users that have experience and do not. Maybe even build an mobile app that would run on a persons cellphone, where you can use it to control assets in the video games.

Once they have a product to market, they can refine the product, add in and remove features that the real people would be using. Corporate worlds might see gamers as lazy, but they are very efficient at what they do, and make the best use of the tools they have with the least amount of work. Which in return I believe would save lives, and money in the battle field.