So to get the songs I legally have a right to have in mp3 format I have to turn to the net. Why do you have to turn to the net? You already have the CDs and (I assume) a CD player. Problem solved. If you machine is so old that it can't rip CDs, it most likely can't play MP3s very effectively. Once you have purchased the music, you have the right to make copies for your personal use. You don't have the right to download them from the net.
NetPD gathered the names of the users offering Metallica songs for download, not the people downloading them.
Go ahead and try to take legal action against Metallica. Unless you've got some seriously deep pockets and a great deal of time to waste, I wouldn't bother. If your name is on the list, you were violating their copyright, and would be found guilty pretty darn quickly.
Not too many people seem to remember the one important fact in this case. Metallica asked Napster to remove their songs from the Napster servers. Metallica did not pursue legal action until Napster said "no." If Napster had removed the Metallica stuff, Metallica never would have brought suit. -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
If it is fair use to copy a cd to cassete then how is it different to copy it to the internet for your own personal use? And if that is ok why is it wrong for someone else to copy it to the internet and store it for you? I can copy the CD as an MP3 to my computer for my own personal use. IIRC, my.mp3.com was allowing you to listen to music that you claimed you owned. At no time did you have to upload the MP3 to a server, you just claimed you had it, and listened to it. I think that's where he's trying to make the distinction.
Copying a CD to cassette is not fair use, it is personal use. Legal splitting hairs time. If I make my Metallica CDs into MP3s and place them on my computer and don't allow anyone but myself to access them, I'm well within my legal rights. If I do the same thing but register with Napster and allow people to download from my PC, I'm violating the copyright. The MP3s are no longer for my personal use, other people are now using them.
-- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Worst case scenario, let's say that courts judge mp3 as being an illegal file format and it must cease to exist. Can they really make that happen? No. It is perfectly permissible to buy a CD and record it on tape so you can listen to it in the car. It wouldn't be much of a legal strech to cover MP3 on the same basis.
You only start running into problems when laws are being broken.:) -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Not trying to be insulting, just trying to help out. Perhaps you need more coffee... -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Sig, cut it out, you're turning into Katz.:) -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Don't you think the use of a lawsuit was rather heavy handed? Couldn't you have given the list to Napster and have the users removed without a lawsuit? This was a good opprotunity to educate the public about Napster and fight the fight with the (much cheaper) PR machine rather than the (very expensive) Legal machine.
-- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Yeah, I think they are being a bit hard about things, but I really can't relate to how this feels to them, so this may be a calm rational reaction for them. Getting the netCops (or PD or whatever) shows a bit of shrewdness. They may have a bigger plan going on here.
You've got a got point about Lars. He probably did break a few copyright violations back in the day. For possible Karmic balance, he did start up a record company that is releasing a bunch of the NWOBHM stuff on compilation albums. I don't know the name of the label.
MP3 about freedom of music? Maybe freedom from lugging my CDs back and forth to work/home. -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
I think it is reasonable to hold Metallica responsible for their merchandise. Okay, you can be the first to sit on the toilet on the metal up your ass shirt.
For those not in the know, the toilet has a hand holding a dagger pointed straight up. Think metal up your ass and you'll get the idea. -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
There needed to be an 800lb gorilla to pick this fight. Metallica seems like a pretty good choice. They've got the deep pockets to wage the war, and the balls to do it.
Remember Katz, Metallica is (was) not about rebellion, but rather sticking to your guns and doing things your own way.
I'm a hardcore fan also. Metallica music has really meant a great deal to me in my life. Justice (the album) was (is) always there to pick me up. "The Shortest Straw" at about volume 6 or so really seems to help put things into perspective.
Metallica has changed. Not due to fan pressure, but because they wanted to. They've aged pretty well. They could not stay the pissed off 20 year olds for ever. -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
1. Metallica is bad for wanting to protect their rights. Katz screams invasion of privacy.
2. People steal Metallica's music. Katz says good.
3. I'm starting to bleed from scratching my head over this one.
From what I can gather, Metallica should be making music and charging nothing for it. I think Katz should produce books and charge nothing for them.
Katz, Metallica has broken no laws (well, with regards to this case). Some of the people using Napster have committed theft.
Let's cheer for the criminals and boo Metallica?
What the fsck is wrong with you? Are you just trying to justify your theft of people's comments for the Columbine book?
I've been a Metallica fan for a long time. I still am. Check the.sig. Their music isn't up to the old standards, but that's life. They've done nothing wrong or illegal in this case. They have every right to protect their rights. If one does not fight for his own rights, who will fight for him? I don't think Metallica has a right to get Napster shut down, because it can be used to legally trade non-copyrighted materials. But, Metallica is well within their rights to stop people from giving away their music. Period. -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Why do artists have a right to collect revenue from their creations? Well, in the music biz, if you ever want to hear from a band again, you've got to buy the albums. Period. It is kind of a silly question. Do you have the right to get paid for your job? You want artists to produce for free, why don't you go and tell your boss you're going to work for free from now on? You boss will love you, your S.O. will hate you.
Parents put a great deal of effort and expense into raising children, but nobody suggests that this effort entitles them to make a financial profit on the venture. I'm gonna guess that you don't have children. There are more things to life than money. I had kids because I wanted to. I had great parents. Quite frankly, having my four year old tell me that I'm his best friend is all the reward I'll ever need for being a parent. Plus I get to play with his Lego.:) -- then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
I have kids, what is your excuse for watching Rugrats?;] Okay, you caught me!:) The only way my son will let me play with his Lego is if we watch Nick at the same time.
I don't knock the Devo boys for doing the music. I'm pretty sure they don't need to do it, but they just have that creative drive to satisfy.
Uh yeah, they wanted it distributed, but they wanted it distributed here, not to the rest of the world, Last time I checked, the only barriers to reading slashdot were having a computer with a net connection and knowing the URL. I didn't know you had to be a geek to read/..
You mention the word privacy. This is a public forum. There is no such thing as privacy on/.. There is anonimity, but don't confuse that with privacy. --
I'm not saying the issue should be kept hidden, I just thing Bruce missed the chance to take the high road on this one. I don't know all the details, but it seems like this is catching Be off guard.
I'm sure Bruce would even be willing to post their reply right on the same page with his message. Exactly. Bruce and Be could have worked out the details and posted a message together stating the issues and the resolutions. That way we would have people saying "Bruce and Be are cool people." Instead, we have people jumping up and down shouting "Look what Be did! GPL violation! KILL! KILL! KILL!"
Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think you get the idea.
Wouldn't it have been better to work this out with Be in private and then post it on the net?
You have every right to protect your rights, and I encourage you to do so, but you don't have to knock Be down to do it. Both of you could have come out looking better if this was resolved before it was common public knowledge. --
I don't think selling out is the term to use. I think the term is "You're not doing what I want you to do, so I'm going to piss and moan about it." If Metallica did what I wanted them to do, they wouldn't be Metallica, and I wouldn't listen to them. How many groups put out CD after CD of the same music just rehashed?
Sure, the crowds at Metallica shows are changing. That's fine. Anyone is allowed to buy a ticket and see the show. I've been to my share of shows, and I've seen 10 year olds and 60+ year olds. It doesn't bother me. I'm there to see the band. If the crowd bothers you, don't go. You'll be missing the one of the best live bands though. But, at the Metallica show, you are among kindred spirits. Everyone is there to see Metallica. (And on the last tour, Kid Rock.) That's the common thread. Have fun with the newbies next to you. Teach them to headbang. Instruct them when to start the 'DIE' chant during Creeping Death. Inform them that Metallica has been putting out records since 82. Encourage them to buy them.
If CT&H want to run/. on a W2K box, let them. I'm here for the discussion (like this one, which I'm enjoying. Thanks. ). I don't care what hardware/. runs on. I care about the content. --
This is my protest against a band that are a bunch of sell outs:~( I keep hearing that Metallica are sellouts. Could someone please prove this to me?
Having personal integrity and playing the music that they want to play is selling out?
I would think they would be sellouts if they stayed in the same musical style. Metallica is the only metal band that I still listen to from my younger years. They are the only band that has matured with the years.
I hope I'm not alone at being awestruck at what this man accomplished so long ago. It's rare in the present that something is envisioned so far ahead of it's time that it takes decades to let manufacturing technologies to catch up with IT instead of developing uses for an already made product. Babbage did some pretty cool stuff. But, I read in a magazine (Science and Technology, IIRC) that the main reason Babbage couldn't get his engine built was because he was a pretty arrogant guy and tended to piss off potential investors.
I seem to recal an effort to build the engine using only tools of the time. Again, IIRC, it was built and it worked.
"Frodo of the nine fingers, Frodo of the nine fingers..."
Gawd, that was awful.
Rankin-Bass did a pretty good job with the Hobbit, but Lord of the Rings just sucked. It's just pretty hard to cut 1K+ pages down to a 90 minute cartoon. I sure hope this movie is good.
Does it leak memory? After an hour or so, three windows were using 45K of free memory, slowing my meager 64K laptop to lots of grinding. Dude, even my trusty Apple//e had 128K. I'd recommend getting at least a meg or two.:) Memory has gotten pretty cheap again. --
Slashdot Mirror
So to get the songs I legally have a right to have in mp3 format I have to turn to the net.
Why do you have to turn to the net? You already have the CDs and (I assume) a CD player. Problem solved. If you machine is so old that it can't rip CDs, it most likely can't play MP3s very effectively. Once you have purchased the music, you have the right to make copies for your personal use. You don't have the right to download them from the net.
NetPD gathered the names of the users offering Metallica songs for download, not the people downloading them.
Go ahead and try to take legal action against Metallica. Unless you've got some seriously deep pockets and a great deal of time to waste, I wouldn't bother. If your name is on the list, you were violating their copyright, and would be found guilty pretty darn quickly.
Not too many people seem to remember the one important fact in this case. Metallica asked Napster to remove their songs from the Napster servers. Metallica did not pursue legal action until Napster said "no." If Napster had removed the Metallica stuff, Metallica never would have brought suit.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
If it is fair use to copy a cd to cassete then how is it different to copy it to the internet for your own personal use? And if that is ok why is it wrong for someone else to copy it to the internet and store it for you?
I can copy the CD as an MP3 to my computer for my own personal use. IIRC, my.mp3.com was allowing you to listen to music that you claimed you owned. At no time did you have to upload the MP3 to a server, you just claimed you had it, and listened to it. I think that's where he's trying to make the distinction.
Copying a CD to cassette is not fair use, it is personal use. Legal splitting hairs time. If I make my Metallica CDs into MP3s and place them on my computer and don't allow anyone but myself to access them, I'm well within my legal rights. If I do the same thing but register with Napster and allow people to download from my PC, I'm violating the copyright. The MP3s are no longer for my personal use, other people are now using them.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Worst case scenario, let's say that courts judge mp3 as being an illegal file format and it must cease to exist. Can they really make that happen?
:)
No. It is perfectly permissible to buy a CD and record it on tape so you can listen to it in the car. It wouldn't be much of a legal strech to cover MP3 on the same basis.
You only start running into problems when laws are being broken.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Not trying to be insulting, just trying to help out. Perhaps you need more coffee...
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Sig, cut it out, you're turning into Katz. :)
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Don't you think the use of a lawsuit was rather heavy handed? Couldn't you have given the list to Napster and have the users removed without a lawsuit? This was a good opprotunity to educate the public about Napster and fight the fight with the (much cheaper) PR machine rather than the (very expensive) Legal machine.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Yeah, I think they are being a bit hard about things, but I really can't relate to how this feels to them, so this may be a calm rational reaction for them. Getting the netCops (or PD or whatever) shows a bit of shrewdness. They may have a bigger plan going on here.
You've got a got point about Lars. He probably did break a few copyright violations back in the day. For possible Karmic balance, he did start up a record company that is releasing a bunch of the NWOBHM stuff on compilation albums. I don't know the name of the label.
MP3 about freedom of music? Maybe freedom from lugging my CDs back and forth to work/home.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
I think it is reasonable to hold Metallica responsible for their merchandise.
Okay, you can be the first to sit on the toilet on the metal up your ass shirt.
For those not in the know, the toilet has a hand holding a dagger pointed straight up. Think metal up your ass and you'll get the idea.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
There needed to be an 800lb gorilla to pick this fight. Metallica seems like a pretty good choice. They've got the deep pockets to wage the war, and the balls to do it.
Remember Katz, Metallica is (was) not about rebellion, but rather sticking to your guns and doing things your own way.
I'm a hardcore fan also. Metallica music has really meant a great deal to me in my life. Justice (the album) was (is) always there to pick me up. "The Shortest Straw" at about volume 6 or so really seems to help put things into perspective.
Metallica has changed. Not due to fan pressure, but because they wanted to. They've aged pretty well. They could not stay the pissed off 20 year olds for ever.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Okay, let's see...
.sig. Their music isn't up to the old standards, but that's life. They've done nothing wrong or illegal in this case. They have every right to protect their rights. If one does not fight for his own rights, who will fight for him? I don't think Metallica has a right to get Napster shut down, because it can be used to legally trade non-copyrighted materials. But, Metallica is well within their rights to stop people from giving away their music. Period.
1. Metallica is bad for wanting to protect their rights. Katz screams invasion of privacy.
2. People steal Metallica's music. Katz says good.
3. I'm starting to bleed from scratching my head over this one.
From what I can gather, Metallica should be making music and charging nothing for it. I think Katz should produce books and charge nothing for them.
Katz, Metallica has broken no laws (well, with regards to this case). Some of the people using Napster have committed theft.
Let's cheer for the criminals and boo Metallica?
What the fsck is wrong with you? Are you just trying to justify your theft of people's comments for the Columbine book?
I've been a Metallica fan for a long time. I still am. Check the
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
May 3 00:59:54 nega-0 kernel: Journaling sponsored by MP3.com :)
Don't tell Metallica! We don't want them to publish a list of Linux users!
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
I've always been a huge Metallica fan. I've even _tried_ to defend them on /..
/.?
But this one bugs me. Either A) Metallica has lost their collective mind or B) They really understand and know what they are doing.
It's really starting to sound like A.
Guys, what about the fans? Don't you care anymore? The chat today should be interesting. Anybody got plans to post the transcript to
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
Why do artists have a right to collect revenue from their creations?
:)
Well, in the music biz, if you ever want to hear from a band again, you've got to buy the albums. Period. It is kind of a silly question. Do you have the right to get paid for your job? You want artists to produce for free, why don't you go and tell your boss you're going to work for free from now on? You boss will love you, your S.O. will hate you.
Parents put a great deal of effort and expense into raising children, but nobody suggests that this effort entitles them to make a financial profit on the venture.
I'm gonna guess that you don't have children. There are more things to life than money. I had kids because I wanted to. I had great parents. Quite frankly, having my four year old tell me that I'm his best friend is all the reward I'll ever need for being a parent. Plus I get to play with his Lego.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
I have kids, what is your excuse for watching Rugrats? ;]
:) The only way my son will let me play with his Lego is if we watch Nick at the same time.
Okay, you caught me!
I don't knock the Devo boys for doing the music. I'm pretty sure they don't need to do it, but they just have that creative drive to satisfy.
--
Mark also has his brother Bob help him out with Rugrats music sometimes. They both also do the music for another Nick show, Rocket Power.
On an interesting note, Flea from the Red Hot Chilli Peppers does the voice of the feral boy, Donnie, on the Nick show The Wild Thornberrys.
I watch way too much Nick, but that's only because our fscking cable company doesn't give us the Cartoon Network yet.
--
Uh yeah, they wanted it distributed, but they wanted it distributed here, not to the rest of the world, /..
/.. There is anonimity, but don't confuse that with privacy.
Last time I checked, the only barriers to reading slashdot were having a computer with a net connection and knowing the URL. I didn't know you had to be a geek to read
You mention the word privacy. This is a public forum. There is no such thing as privacy on
--
I'm not saying the issue should be kept hidden, I just thing Bruce missed the chance to take the high road on this one. I don't know all the details, but it seems like this is catching Be off guard.
I'm sure Bruce would even be willing to post their reply right on the same page with his message.
Exactly. Bruce and Be could have worked out the details and posted a message together stating the issues and the resolutions. That way we would have people saying "Bruce and Be are cool people." Instead, we have people jumping up and down shouting "Look what Be did! GPL violation! KILL! KILL! KILL!"
Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think you get the idea.
--
Wouldn't it have been better to work this out with Be in private and then post it on the net?
You have every right to protect your rights, and I encourage you to do so, but you don't have to knock Be down to do it. Both of you could have come out looking better if this was resolved before it was common public knowledge.
--
You seem to approach just about everything with a rather suprising amount of intensity and focus.
What sort of things do you do in your spare time, and do you approach them with the same amount of intensity that you have for free software?
--
I don't think selling out is the term to use. I think the term is "You're not doing what I want you to do, so I'm going to piss and moan about it." If Metallica did what I wanted them to do, they wouldn't be Metallica, and I wouldn't listen to them. How many groups put out CD after CD of the same music just rehashed?
/. on a W2K box, let them. I'm here for the discussion (like this one, which I'm enjoying. Thanks. ). I don't care what hardware /. runs on. I care about the content.
Sure, the crowds at Metallica shows are changing. That's fine. Anyone is allowed to buy a ticket and see the show. I've been to my share of shows, and I've seen 10 year olds and 60+ year olds. It doesn't bother me. I'm there to see the band. If the crowd bothers you, don't go. You'll be missing the one of the best live bands though. But, at the Metallica show, you are among kindred spirits. Everyone is there to see Metallica. (And on the last tour, Kid Rock.) That's the common thread. Have fun with the newbies next to you. Teach them to headbang. Instruct them when to start the 'DIE' chant during Creeping Death. Inform them that Metallica has been putting out records since 82. Encourage them to buy them.
If CT&H want to run
--
This is my protest against a band that are a bunch of sell outs :~(
I keep hearing that Metallica are sellouts. Could someone please prove this to me?
Having personal integrity and playing the music that they want to play is selling out?
I would think they would be sellouts if they stayed in the same musical style. Metallica is the only metal band that I still listen to from my younger years. They are the only band that has matured with the years.
--
I hope I'm not alone at being awestruck at what this man accomplished so long ago. It's rare in the present that something is envisioned so far ahead of it's time that it takes decades to let manufacturing technologies to catch up with IT instead of developing uses for an already made product.
Babbage did some pretty cool stuff. But, I read in a magazine (Science and Technology, IIRC) that the main reason Babbage couldn't get his engine built was because he was a pretty arrogant guy and tended to piss off potential investors.
I seem to recal an effort to build the engine using only tools of the time. Again, IIRC, it was built and it worked.
--
Talk about computing coming full cicle. This sounds like nano-scale magnetic core memory.
What's next? 0.6 micron punch cards?
--
"Frodo of the nine fingers,
Frodo of the nine fingers..."
Gawd, that was awful.
Rankin-Bass did a pretty good job with the Hobbit, but Lord of the Rings just sucked. It's just pretty hard to cut 1K+ pages down to a 90 minute cartoon. I sure hope this movie is good.
--
Does it leak memory? After an hour or so, three windows were using 45K of free memory, slowing my meager 64K laptop to lots of grinding. //e had 128K. I'd recommend getting at least a meg or two. :)
Dude, even my trusty Apple
Memory has gotten pretty cheap again.
--