you forgot felchmail. He fucked that one up almost as good as the jargon file.
As far as unix goes...damn, I wish I hadn't lost the URL for "the unix haters' handbook". It addresses everything that is wrong with the unix mentality [of which ESR is a poster-child for].
I think that the unix hater's handbook had a better perspective on unix, and people who become unix 'gurus' (look, even the TITLE of 'guru' is ego-centric).
It is not about what is the best tool for the job, or uses the best methodology, it's simply about who can put out the most smoke-and-mirrors bullshit to convince people that they know fuck-all when they often times [such as your typical slashdotter] don't.
Why else *DO* you think that we have twenty million editors, cdplayers and other assorted minor apps instead of a wide amount of code-reusal? It's because unimaginative, ego-centric tossers insist on doing the sourceforge version of the aol 'me too' bit.
Unix is ok as a platform, but unixers and IN PARTICULAR ESR are ego-bound jerkoffs of the first order. Otherwise, ESR would have contributed more to OSS other than a feel-good essay [TCaTB] and the right-wingification of the jargon file. [oh, I forgot felchmail...probably because niether I, nor anyone else, uses it in leiu of more modern transport agents]
I'm sorry to rant here, folks, but ESR, OSS, Unix, is so freaking dot-com era that I am baffled at how anyone could still be falling for that outmoded [??? profit!] model after the way it tanked our economy!
How on earth can you state that "a kernel alone does not an OS make" after having argued for DOS?
Btw, while MS provided doss-hell, most people I knew used the Norton Commander if they wanted to get anything done...and the browser you are thinking of is arachne, though -again- no-one used pure DOS networking tools, instead preferring to use teh winsock TCP/IP stack.
And yes, if you are doing any kind of word processing, spreadsheets or anything else that involves modern computing--you do, in fact, need a modern OS that is both multitasking and GUI based. That involves either windows, mac or Unix...DOS died for a reason.
With regards to servers...who says I've used any? Dispite being a desktop user, I am well aware that EVERY UNIX[tm] vendor moved to some sort of GUI configuration well before MS "popularised" teh GUI...CDE came out in roughly 91 (I may be wrong by a year or two either way...even so, well before win95 came along). Do I need to remind you that most true UNIX installs are used for servers?
"there are plenty of server OS...out there that don't have GUIs, and yet many many people use them. How could that be??" Simple, because "many many" people have bought into the myth of CLI superority peddled by your traditional Unix Geeks and choose to work in sub-optimal computing enviroments, while convincing themselves and anyone who will listen that it is the best of all worlds.
Denial ain't just a river in egypt.
To be truly productive in any computing enviroment, you require two things: A)mulitasking B)A GUI. It is possible to work with less, but it's far, far less efficent to do so.
The original point was not "a kernel alone does not an OS make", but rather that you could not run an OS without some sort of GNU toolchain. I maintain that you can. But I've already covered that so go back and re-read my previous post for my posistion there.
You can't build a Unix-like OS without a shell, a C library, a compiler, etc.
Ash, TCSH, (maybe even pdksh) are not gpl, afaik.
A Unix-like OS can be useful with a GUI, a web browser, a file manager, etc.
A Unix-like OS isn't all that useful without cp, mv, sed, awk, touch, rm, etc.
NO OS is useful without a gui, web browser/internet connectivity or a file manager. You can get X windows and a web browser without resorting to GNU, though afaik there are no non-gnu/non-commercial filemanagers (ie -none that are BSD compatiable in licencsing).
If you have a file manager, you have no need for cp, mv or rm and as far as sed and awk go--I've been using *N?x since 1996 and I have to ask... wtf??!?!
[side note, don't *BSD provide their own cp, mv, touch, echo and rm?]
1) Go buy a box-set from the freebsd mall. 2) Find a friend with a copy and get them to lend it you. 3) Club together with a few friends to buy it. 4) ??? 5).....
Indeed I could, assuming...
1)I had the $40-$80 to spare atm (thanks to an upcoming trip, I do not) 2)If I had friends, that would be an option, true enough. 3)see #2 4)loss!!!! 5)OMFG LOLL
Since you appear to be proof that low-UID users eventually do go senile, I'll phrase this more carefully.
Do try to keep up this time around - I won't be explaining myself again.
1)You made a highly bogus claim that XP would not run comfortably on older hardware.
2)I posted a reply asking what your mental impediment is, and then did the following to refute your wildly inaccurage claims:
a)I posted a link to the specs of a laptop that I have used to experiement with different Operating Systems on
b)I stated in my post (you know--the post you didn't bother reading because of your adult attention deficit disorder?) that I also ran XP on it at one time (along with Freedos...concurrent with it, actually, as I had a dual boot system going on for a while).
In short, you are on crack, you are trolling, or bitrot really does affect users with a UID lower than 100k or so. I suspect it's really a bit of all of the above.
I know that for the computer I have (cheap gateway home box) I don't have ps/2 ports. Or serial ports. Or parallel ports.
It also took me 2 years to get onto the internet with linux (fucking weird belkin modules) and I still have to use windows for my usb pen camera and my hp deskjet 3520.
I think your first point is off in tinfoil-hat-land, but I agree with your second point. I saw so many inititives and measures pushed thru behind closed doors in seattle after only a token guesture at discussion that these days I don't even bother voting any more.
It's not like they aren't going to do what the hell they want anyways.
welcome our meteorite overlords, and would like to remind them that as a trusted hindu diety I could be useful in rounding up other hindus to toil away in their underground space mines.
One thing which I think is interesting is that recently, VOIP over P2P was mentioned. Of course, you don't have to be kreskin to see that some form of legal online music purchasing has to eventually become legal. However, I think that the recent mention of VOIP over P2P shows that the technologies made for decentralised P2P will still be used, just not for the purposes that are currently used for.
Slashdot Mirror
you forgot felchmail. He fucked that one up almost as good as the jargon file.
As far as unix goes...damn, I wish I hadn't lost the URL for "the unix haters' handbook". It addresses everything that is wrong with the unix mentality [of which ESR is a poster-child for].
I think that the unix hater's handbook had a better perspective on unix, and people who become unix 'gurus' (look, even the TITLE of 'guru' is ego-centric).
It is not about what is the best tool for the job, or uses the best methodology, it's simply about who can put out the most smoke-and-mirrors bullshit to convince people that they know fuck-all when they often times [such as your typical slashdotter] don't.
Why else *DO* you think that we have twenty million editors, cdplayers and other assorted minor apps instead of a wide amount of code-reusal? It's because unimaginative, ego-centric tossers insist on doing the sourceforge version of the aol 'me too' bit.
Unix is ok as a platform, but unixers and IN PARTICULAR ESR are ego-bound jerkoffs of the first order. Otherwise, ESR would have contributed more to OSS other than a feel-good essay [TCaTB] and the right-wingification of the jargon file. [oh, I forgot felchmail...probably because niether I, nor anyone else, uses it in leiu of more modern transport agents]
I'm sorry to rant here, folks, but ESR, OSS, Unix, is so freaking dot-com era that I am baffled at how anyone could still be falling for that outmoded [??? profit!] model after the way it tanked our economy!
Thank you for reading, I will go have coffee now.
That's why we have GNU.
How on earth can you state that "a kernel alone does not an OS make" after having argued for DOS?
Btw, while MS provided doss-hell, most people I knew used the Norton Commander if they wanted to get anything done...and the browser you are thinking of is arachne, though -again- no-one used pure DOS networking tools, instead preferring to use teh winsock TCP/IP stack.
And yes, if you are doing any kind of word processing, spreadsheets or anything else that involves modern computing--you do, in fact, need a modern OS that is both multitasking and GUI based. That involves either windows, mac or Unix...DOS died for a reason.
With regards to servers...who says I've used any? Dispite being a desktop user, I am well aware that EVERY UNIX[tm] vendor moved to some sort of GUI configuration well before MS "popularised" teh GUI...CDE came out in roughly 91 (I may be wrong by a year or two either way...even so, well before win95 came along). Do I need to remind you that most true UNIX installs are used for servers?
"there are plenty of server OS...out there that don't have GUIs, and yet many many people use them. How could that be??" Simple, because "many many" people have bought into the myth of CLI superority peddled by your traditional Unix Geeks and choose to work in sub-optimal computing enviroments, while convincing themselves and anyone who will listen that it is the best of all worlds.
Denial ain't just a river in egypt.
To be truly productive in any computing enviroment, you require two things: A)mulitasking B)A GUI. It is possible to work with less, but it's far, far less efficent to do so.
The original point was not "a kernel alone does not an OS make", but rather that you could not run an OS without some sort of GNU toolchain. I maintain that you can. But I've already covered that so go back and re-read my previous post for my posistion there.
MS simply have the GNU license declared illegal? It's GOT to be the cheaper route to go...
I know Billy's got a hard-on about this, but WTF?!??!
Ash, TCSH, (maybe even pdksh) are not gpl, afaik.
NO OS is useful without a gui, web browser/internet connectivity or a file manager. You can get X windows and a web browser without resorting to GNU, though afaik there are no non-gnu/non-commercial filemanagers (ie -none that are BSD compatiable in licencsing).
If you have a file manager, you have no need for cp, mv or rm and as far as sed and awk go--I've been using *N?x since 1996 and I have to ask... wtf??!?!
[side note, don't *BSD provide their own cp, mv, touch, echo and rm?]
As I indicated elsewhere, money is an issue.
Indeed I could, assuming...
1)I had the $40-$80 to spare atm (thanks to an upcoming trip, I do not)
2)If I had friends, that would be an option, true enough.
3)see #2
4)loss!!!!
5)OMFG LOLL
And you're a known BSD zealout with the credibility of an enron executive. WTF is your point, moron?
I'm trying to grab the iso on dialup (no broadband around these parts)and I ^C'ed it so I could load slashdot.
At any rate, I should have it, and my review, sometime around thanksgiving.
Obviously, dying would be considered his biggest mistake...
Since you appear to be proof that low-UID users eventually do go senile, I'll phrase this more carefully.
Do try to keep up this time around - I won't be explaining myself again.
1)You made a highly bogus claim that XP would not run comfortably on older hardware.
2)I posted a reply asking what your mental impediment is, and then did the following to refute your wildly inaccurage claims:
a)I posted a link to the specs of a laptop that I have used to experiement with different Operating Systems on
b)I stated in my post (you know--the post you didn't bother reading because of your adult attention deficit disorder?) that I also ran XP on it at one time (along with Freedos...concurrent with it, actually, as I had a dual boot system going on for a while).
In short, you are on crack, you are trolling, or bitrot really does affect users with a UID lower than 100k or so. I suspect it's really a bit of all of the above.
I tried installing windows XP on this computer and it ran just fine until I nuked it to play with different systems.
You sir, are totally full of raw fecal matter.
I know that for the computer I have (cheap gateway home box) I don't have ps/2 ports. Or serial ports. Or parallel ports.
It also took me 2 years to get onto the internet with linux (fucking weird belkin modules) and I still have to use windows for my usb pen camera and my hp deskjet 3520.
You haven't tried kuro5hin lately, have you?
I think you've chosen the wrong voice of to listen to.
I think your first point is off in tinfoil-hat-land, but I agree with your second point. I saw so many inititives and measures pushed thru behind closed doors in seattle after only a token guesture at discussion that these days I don't even bother voting any more.
It's not like they aren't going to do what the hell they want anyways.
welcome our meteorite overlords, and would like to remind them that as a trusted hindu diety I could be useful in rounding up other hindus to toil away in their underground space mines.
I think we need to discuss what the next k3w1 31337 0$ is.
I think it's torn between OpenBSD for the 31337 factor and M@c$ for the "golly what pretty gadets" g33k crowd.
So, which one will win out? Given teh g33k perception that m@c$ are gh3y, I am betting on B$D.
as I cannot believe that sendmail would have an exploit (remote or otherwise) given its' history.
Am I epxceted to udensrtnad tihs?
which did ...not manage to be around forever.
One thing which I think is interesting is that recently, VOIP over P2P was mentioned. Of course, you don't have to be kreskin to see that some form of legal online music purchasing has to eventually become legal. However, I think that the recent mention of VOIP over P2P shows that the technologies made for decentralised P2P will still be used, just not for the purposes that are currently used for.
Unmodified and COMPLETE article in parent post.
redundant statement.