Technologically things have improved over the past 6 years.
Since the end of the Middle Ages technology has generally improved given any 6 year span. Whoever is in the White House doesn't really have much, if any, effect on it.
And politically, Clinton had Bin Laden in his hands, let him get away, and left the U.S. poised for 9-11.
Whereas Bush was elected and made the non-threat Saddam his primary focus instead, while ignoring streams of Al Queda intelligence and warnings. Bush and Clinton both botched it all up.
THE TROLL POLKA (ARSCHFICKEN MIT ZIEGEN) By Serial Troller, 2002-06-25
Is das nicht ein early post? Ja! Das ist mein early post! Is das nicht ein Goatse ghost? Ja! Das i
st mein Goatse ghost! Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das post at minus one? Ja! Das ist at minus one! Is
das trolling so much fun? Ja! Das trolling is so fun! Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht ein big crapflood? Ja! Das ist mein big crapflood! Is it worthless Linux FUD? Ja! Das ist mein Linux FUD! Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early p
ost, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht der CowBoiKneel? Ja! Das ist der CowBoiKneel! Is dis nicht his manchode m
eal? Ja! Das ist his manchode meal! CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, O
h, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht ein WIPO Troll? Ja! Das ist der WIPO Troll! Is das nicht ein Goatse hole? Ja! Das ist der Goatse hole! WIPO Troll, Goatse hole
, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht Jon Katz' slave boys? Ja! Das ist Jon Katz' slave boys! Und are they not Taco's sex toys? Ja! They are Taco's sex toys! Katz' slave boys, Rob's sex toys, WIPO Tro
ll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slas
hdot sucks!
Is das nicht ein trolltalk thread? Ja! Das ist ein trolltalk thread! Is it nicht now FUCKING DEAD? Ja! Is really FUCKING DEAD! Trolltalk thread, FUCKING DEAD!
Katz' slave boys, Rob's sex toys, WIPO Troll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, d
u schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
____________________
Change Log:
* Subtle changes to most verses. It sounded really gay before.
* Removed all references to Taco's pud. May have been high at time. Will investigate further.
* Finally think I have goat sex written correctly in German. I think. Arschficken?
(C) 2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is
granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.
No, the point is that Theo and crew are taking an active approach to get what they need. To make a claim that BSD and related projects wouldn't be where they are without GCC implies that only the GNU project was/is capable of producing a good C compiler. It just happens that the GNU project made a good C compiler under palatable licensing terms, so the various BSD projects used it. So what?
As far as "slamming" RMS, I think the cartoon in question is basically just a "joke", and I think some people should take a chill pill before trying to scream foul.
And the BSDs wouldn't be where they are now without GCC. Trying to argue otherwise is simply revisionist history.
That assumes that another compiler wouldn't have matured along with the BSD progression. Granted, GCC was the first solid one on the block, so it got used. Nothing against GCC, but you can't just state that without it various "open source" projects would not be where they are today. To argue otherwise is simply pretending to be all knowing.
Besides, GCC should be called K&R GCC, because where would GCC be without the C language?
And I can point out your arrogance.
*shrug*
Answer this - what is the greatest contribution to the Free Software community? GCC or being able to distribute the firmware for a few wireless cards?
GCC has certainly been a boon to the "free/open/whatever-word" communit(y/ies). However a compiler by itself isn't terribly useful if you don't have much operating system source to compile it against. Hence the importance of device drivers, firmware API's, etc. But I'll try to remember your point when I'm setting up a high availability GNU/Hurd box with all the latest hardware...
Arrogance or not, at least they are actively persuing hardware manufacturers to get specs opened up a bit. None of those corps are going to listen to RMS while he preaches GNU philosophy from his pulpit. And hey, why bring up the compiler? It's free in all the appropriate senses, so Theo and crew are simply using available tools.
The characters are disappointed because the Wizard ends up being "all talk -- no action!" So they decide to code the wireless driver by reverse-engineering the device.
Just curious, when was the last time that RMS reverse engineered a useful device and posted the driver source?
RMS and the people who agree with him want to maximize the freedom of the end-user, even at the expense of the developer.
And as a developer I don't like this (it's a fallacy anyways, developers are users too). Then again RMS doesn't "work" for a living (he lives off grants, etc). Some of the rest of us don't like to be cornered by the "maximization" of the end users' freedom since some of us code for a living. The end user is free to choose or reject software based on the level of "freedom" they have. I actually have no problem with the GPL itself, just the mentality of some of its backers.
Though since this is Slashdot, and I've already been modded as Flamebait a few times for violating the groupthink I think I'll call it a night on this particular thread.
I suspect you don't understand what exactly is "free" in this situation.
I'm going by RMS's idea of "free", in that he believes that all information should be world-viewable, regardless of one's possible desire to not show everything to the world. It's Stallman that said "Down with security!" since he wants access to *everything*.
...and for heaven's sake don't use the Linux kernel because you're too cheap to come up with an OS of your own or buy a ready-made one for your dvd player then whine when people bitch at you.
Exactly! This is why the BSD licenses are more "free" (free as in "freedom") than the GPL. This "I have a right to YOUR source code" nonsense goes past what "free" really means.
but all it takes for a good number of companies to get egg on their face is one careless mid-level that is too casual with passwords (and/or takes their work home on laptops with info unencrypted)...
No, I merely employ hyperbole to make a generic point.
His philosophy has centered on reason and the adherence to freedom and liberty.
The problem being is that the definitions of "freedom" and "liberty" in the software realm are rather subjective. I personally think that the *BSD license is more "free" than the GPL, given that my view of what is "free" is a little bit different than RMS. The vocal FSF crowd will (naturally) be critical of things like Sun's licensing by emphasising what's not "free" about it using their perceptions of what is "free". They also seem to have the mentality of "if it's not GPL then it's not 'free'", but that's just my view of the FSF (hence the "religious" tone of my obviously exaggerated phrasing). I'm not saying they are "wrong" per se, but I happen to view freedom and rights (their "The Right To Read", etc) somewhat differently.
Slashdot Mirror
Technologically things have improved over the past 6 years.
Since the end of the Middle Ages technology has generally improved given any 6 year span. Whoever is in the White House doesn't really have much, if any, effect on it.
And politically, Clinton had Bin Laden in his hands, let him get away, and left the U.S. poised for 9-11.
Whereas Bush was elected and made the non-threat Saddam his primary focus instead, while ignoring streams of Al Queda intelligence and warnings. Bush and Clinton both botched it all up.
(Not mine, just a classic)
THE TROLL POLKA (ARSCHFICKEN MIT ZIEGEN)
By Serial Troller, 2002-06-25
Is das nicht ein early post? Ja! Das ist mein early post!
Is das nicht ein Goatse ghost? Ja! Das i st mein Goatse ghost!
Early post, Goatse ghost,
Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das post at minus one? Ja! Das ist at minus one!
Is das trolling so much fun? Ja! Das trolling is so fun!
Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht ein big crapflood? Ja! Das ist mein big crapflood!
Is it worthless Linux FUD? Ja! Das ist mein Linux FUD!
Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early p ost, Goatse ghost,
Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht der CowBoiKneel? Ja! Das ist der CowBoiKneel!
Is dis nicht his manchode m eal? Ja! Das ist his manchode meal!
CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD,
Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, O h, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht ein WIPO Troll? Ja! Das ist der WIPO Troll!
Is das nicht ein Goatse hole? Ja! Das ist der Goatse hole!
WIPO Troll, Goatse hole , CowBoiKneel, manchode meal,
Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!
Is das nicht Jon Katz' slave boys? Ja! Das ist Jon Katz' slave boys!
Und are they not Taco's sex toys? Ja! They are Taco's sex toys!
Katz' slave boys, Rob's sex toys, WIPO Tro ll, Goatse hole,
CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD,
Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slas hdot sucks!
Is das nicht ein trolltalk thread? Ja! Das ist ein trolltalk thread!
Is it nicht now FUCKING DEAD? Ja! Is really FUCKING DEAD!
Trolltalk thread, FUCKING DEAD! Katz' slave boys, Rob's sex toys,
WIPO Troll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal,
Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun,
Early post, Goatse ghost,
Oh, d u schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene,
Slashdot sucks!
____________________
Change Log:
* Subtle changes to most verses. It sounded really gay before.
* Removed all references to Taco's pud. May have been high at time. Will investigate further.
* Finally think I have goat sex written correctly in German. I think. Arschficken?
(C) 2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.
For the sake of Slashdot's credibility we shouldn't be seeing articles like this.
Do you realize what you just said?
No, the point is that Theo and crew are taking an active approach to get what they need. To make a claim that BSD and related projects wouldn't be where they are without GCC implies that only the GNU project was/is capable of producing a good C compiler. It just happens that the GNU project made a good C compiler under palatable licensing terms, so the various BSD projects used it. So what?
As far as "slamming" RMS, I think the cartoon in question is basically just a "joke", and I think some people should take a chill pill before trying to scream foul.
Quit your whining. My question was valid.
And the BSDs wouldn't be where they are now without GCC. Trying to argue otherwise is simply revisionist history.
That assumes that another compiler wouldn't have matured along with the BSD progression. Granted, GCC was the first solid one on the block, so it got used. Nothing against GCC, but you can't just state that without it various "open source" projects would not be where they are today. To argue otherwise is simply pretending to be all knowing.
Besides, GCC should be called K&R GCC, because where would GCC be without the C language?
And I can point out your arrogance.
*shrug*
Answer this - what is the greatest contribution to the Free Software community? GCC or being able to distribute the firmware for a few wireless cards?
GCC has certainly been a boon to the "free/open/whatever-word" communit(y/ies). However a compiler by itself isn't terribly useful if you don't have much operating system source to compile it against. Hence the importance of device drivers, firmware API's, etc. But I'll try to remember your point when I'm setting up a high availability GNU/Hurd box with all the latest hardware...
Arrogance or not, at least they are actively persuing hardware manufacturers to get specs opened up a bit. None of those corps are going to listen to RMS while he preaches GNU philosophy from his pulpit. And hey, why bring up the compiler? It's free in all the appropriate senses, so Theo and crew are simply using available tools.
The characters are disappointed because the Wizard ends up being "all talk -- no action!" So they decide to code the wireless driver by reverse-engineering the device.
Just curious, when was the last time that RMS reverse engineered a useful device and posted the driver source?
RMS and the people who agree with him want to maximize the freedom of the end-user, even at the expense of the developer.
And as a developer I don't like this (it's a fallacy anyways, developers are users too). Then again RMS doesn't "work" for a living (he lives off grants, etc). Some of the rest of us don't like to be cornered by the "maximization" of the end users' freedom since some of us code for a living. The end user is free to choose or reject software based on the level of "freedom" they have. I actually have no problem with the GPL itself, just the mentality of some of its backers.
Though since this is Slashdot, and I've already been modded as Flamebait a few times for violating the groupthink I think I'll call it a night on this particular thread.
Do you consider that a valid alternative when you have no counter-argument?
Absolutely, given what I was replying to was not an argument but just plain idiocy.
It's not specifically forcing source code redistribution.
I suspect you don't understand what exactly is "free" in this situation.
...and for heaven's sake don't use the Linux kernel because you're too cheap to come up with an OS of your own or buy a ready-made one for your dvd player then whine when people bitch at you.
I'm going by RMS's idea of "free", in that he believes that all information should be world-viewable, regardless of one's possible desire to not show everything to the world. It's Stallman that said "Down with security!" since he wants access to *everything*.
This tripe gets modded Insightful?
I said "more free", not "free-est thing evar!!11". Granted, truly free wouldn't involve a license of any sort.
Exactly! This is why the BSD licenses are more "free" (free as in "freedom") than the GPL. This "I have a right to YOUR source code" nonsense goes past what "free" really means.
Absolutely. This is Slashdot afterall.
but all it takes for a good number of companies to get egg on their face is one careless mid-level that is too casual with passwords (and/or takes their work home on laptops with info unencrypted)...
People are getting paid to hype up Linux on Slashdot?
Yup.
Hehehehehehe, omg uc is such teh troooll!!11``1
There are plenty of Libertarians that dismiss the yammerings of "Randroids".
Uh, no. You're drawing on stereotypes...
No, I merely employ hyperbole to make a generic point.
His philosophy has centered on reason and the adherence to freedom and liberty.
The problem being is that the definitions of "freedom" and "liberty" in the software realm are rather subjective. I personally think that the *BSD license is more "free" than the GPL, given that my view of what is "free" is a little bit different than RMS. The vocal FSF crowd will (naturally) be critical of things like Sun's licensing by emphasising what's not "free" about it using their perceptions of what is "free". They also seem to have the mentality of "if it's not GPL then it's not 'free'", but that's just my view of the FSF (hence the "religious" tone of my obviously exaggerated phrasing). I'm not saying they are "wrong" per se, but I happen to view freedom and rights (their "The Right To Read", etc) somewhat differently.
This Boobies website is full of Boobies anyways...
Sun: Hey y'all, here's some stuff and here's the license.
Open Source Community: The license does not sync with our philosophy. No thanks.
Free Software Community: This license is blasphemy in our collective holy eyes! Cast thee away from our presence!
Everyone walks away, life goes on.
It's just as bad as the same old tired "BSOD!!!LOL!!11" type joke that gets posted in almost any article involving Windows.
Actually he's almost always right.
Better said, some people frequently agree with RMS's opinions.
Stay off Michael Sims' shitlist.