Because you're so much smarter than libertarians......
The fact is, before the industrial revolution, people worked. Period. The rich had free time, noone else did. Think Newton climbed up from the ranks of peasantry? Gallileo?
Not only that, but your statement contradicts itself: "deductive, abstract logical reasoning" and then "There is no rational basis". It's all about rationality.
Yes, we should all just sit back and take whatever our masters want to give to us.
Don't be a jackass. You run because you want your ideas to spread, to give them a forum and maybe, just maybe, make other "mainstream" candidates pull towards your line of thinking.
Apparently your self-teaching didn't help your "tourrmendous" spelling.:)
I think you are missing the point of a class: Jump-starting what you know, and filling in gaps in what you don't. You can get a lot of hints into things that you didn't even know existed.
Also, if you like the subject, a class is not "work".
Come on, where's your sense of economic benefit? Think of the jobs that will be created!
And it doesn't sadden me in the least: It's unbelievably great that we live in such a time where so much of our energy can be spent on entertaining ourselves, instead of fighting our neighbor, foraging or busting our backs for food, fighting off disease, etc.
I agree with you in the sense that we are a post-industrial economy.
The trouble is, for everywhere-but-USA, and USA 50 years ago... who would have driven the engines that push us forward?
Who would have built the cars? Can't have 17 year olds doing that all day long. Who would dig up the coal? Who would crank out the textiles?
Perhaps we'd still make it where we are today, and perhaps not. Perhaps we'd be stuck in a sort of industrial dark ages.
I think your example 4 is telling: The market already seems to have rebalanced, in the direction of providing drones for drone-like labor.
Hey, I'd like an intellectual renaissance as much as the next guy... well, maybe not. I kind of enjoy being a little higher on the intellectual food chain than average. Elitism, I guess, but I'm not perfect.
The funny part is, if "we" didn't crank out replaceable cogs, the people who've learned something different won't have jobs, and everyone would be complaining about unemployment levels.
The trick is, for our society to continue to function, we need a significant number of "drones" to do a lot of the work.
If everyone was as "free" as Bill G, you think we'd all be better off? I'm not so sure. Then again, I'm on the "free" side and so are you, so my perspective is probably skewed.
Let me just agree with your assessment of the abhorrent lack of critical thinking skills in America. Well, humans in general, I guess. THAT's the biggest story I can think of...
"Check that. Look at the environmental protections and the employee protections of those countries. In most cases, the reason it is cheaper to send the work over seas is because they have fewer protections. Abusing your people is one way to achieve prosperity. But it is just a race to the bottom to see who can inflict the most abuse."
So I suppose in your mind that the people in such foreign nations are forced to work for the evil US company?
"Instead, why not require that any country that we outsource to have the SAME level of protections that we do?"
Because then the companies won't move to such countries because it'll be too expensive. The people living there will be stuck in their dirt farms (which is oh-so-much-better than a Nike factory), and everyone the world over will pay more for such products.
"Right..... and the last time we went to war with a country we were outsourcing to was......?"
Um, that's exactly the point. Because we're outsourcing lots to India, we have no interest in fighting with them (well, at least those of us in charge don't. Those of us who've lost their jobs might want to go beat up some Indians).
Because we're outsourcing lots to India, they want to keep our companies happy. Getting belligerent with America is not the way to do that.
So yeah, the grandparent is correct on that account, and you've agreed with him without realizing it, apparently.
Yeah, but for a few thousand bucks you can attach it to the chain gun mounted on the front of your chopper...
I can see it now, the US comes up with great tech for gamers, and then can't sell it overseas because it wipes the floor with any international weapons tech. Kind of like the crypto restrictions, but tangible.
Then again, the average nation is so far behind it doesn't really matter.
Sheesh, just great, a third political party. Like we don't have enough waste of energy with the Republicrats and Demolicans both running and taking up airtime with their fund raising and attack ads (who restricts his choice to either one party or the other, but not both?)
Really, there are some times where... Ah hell, you get the point.
Let's see, just like 3rd parties, the developers who are working on E are working on it because they don't WANT to work on the existing stuff. There is certainly NOTHING forcing you to get anywhere near their goodness. You don't have to install anything of theirs. You can EASILY AVOID THE BLOAT.
My analogy at the top points to this: The efforts of the E guys are NOT wasted because they likely would NOT be working on Gnome/KDE if they weren't working on E, in the same way that those of us who vote for 3rd parties do so because we don't like the two "standards". It's not a zero sum game!
Just wanted to point out that you and the other poster were both quite insightful, thought-provoking and articulate. It's too rare around here, so thanks.:)
Please do yourself a huge favor and never use the words "time impacted" next to each other again. Or quit working at that big company you work for, it's rotting your brain!:)
So in the same vein, if you vote for Kerry, you're supporting all the wacko Greenpeace, tree-huggin, anti-capitalist, anti-trade communists, whether or not you agree with them.:)
I'd guess it's the theory that one side is a little closer to what you believe than the other...
Alright, I understand what you're saying, but I don't want to look at it in such a boldly pessimistic way.:)
To wit:
"What freedom could we as a people hope to win for ourselves that wouldn't be used by big corporations first to increase their profit margins?"
Profits are certainly not a bad thing, particularly since you're not prevented from getting some of your own. I will, however, agree that corporations buying those profits thru gov't influence is sickening and must be decried.
"If we win that freedom we as citizens may sit more comfortably in our chairs on our patios but BIG INDUSTRY will be actively looking at ways to use that freedom to suck more money from us at the cash register. We cannot fight that."
Sure we can. There is nothing forcing us to go to said cash register.:)
My view is that corporations are too powerful now: Their mission (make money) and success I'm not jealous of... just their blatant disregard for law.
As for voting: "We the people" absolutely CAN break the one-party stranglehold, if things get bad enough. Thing is, people are fooled into believing their getting something for nothing from our "beloved" leaders. We don't have a communist society, but we do have woefully inattentive voters.
Now, the trouble is, I agree with your last paragraph completely except for the conclusion that it's somehow called "Communism". There is certainly no collective ownership of everything, and CERTAINLY no "common good"...
I'd call it an oligarchy, as a derogatory term, not one of pride.
Big government is here so the only solution is... bigger government? Que?
And I think the mental images of communism come more from, oh, let's say, every example of communism in the 20th century, rather than any mind-control conspiracies...
Good to see your slowing moving back down the mod chart... "Client side... was always one monumental flop" is pure myth. It's interesting that you seem to think "client side" means "in a browser window".
Conservatives are no more united than Liberals. The GOP is probably better at producing just enough bullshit to attract all their diverse groups, however.
Imagine, for a moment, a Republican coming in favor of abortion. The religious south would drop him like a hot plate, and just stay home. It's happened before and it'll happen again.
I'm a relatively conservative guy. Am I voting for Bush? Hell no, I'm voting Libertarian no matter how goofy the guy is this year.
I was skeptical as well, but then I followed a link or two and found a page they've put together for HTML authors. It's actually very easy to implement and you can do some pretty interesting things with it.
XForms can essentially replace javascript as a validation tool. It can also load initial values from another document, something I find pretty interesting (because you let the client side do it, not your poor over-burdened server).
It's just options. You're certainly never going to be forced to use it.
By the way, how many developers really know asp/jsp/php/perl but don't know xml yet?:)
Slashdot Mirror
Because you're so much smarter than libertarians......
The fact is, before the industrial revolution, people worked. Period. The rich had free time, noone else did. Think Newton climbed up from the ranks of peasantry? Gallileo?
Not only that, but your statement contradicts itself: "deductive, abstract logical reasoning" and then "There is no rational basis". It's all about rationality.
Yes, we should all just sit back and take whatever our masters want to give to us.
Don't be a jackass. You run because you want your ideas to spread, to give them a forum and maybe, just maybe, make other "mainstream" candidates pull towards your line of thinking.
Thank you for trying. Very reasoned arguments; I enjoyed reading them.
Somehow, we're not surprised that you grew up in a comic shop. Nice ego, man.
I haven't read anything that says offshoring is a clear-cut winning strategy.
Like any business plan, there are the right ways and the wrong ways to go about it.
The demonization and deification of offshoring is just stupid, though. On both sides.
Apparently your self-teaching didn't help your "tourrmendous" spelling. :)
I think you are missing the point of a class: Jump-starting what you know, and filling in gaps in what you don't. You can get a lot of hints into things that you didn't even know existed.
Also, if you like the subject, a class is not "work".
Come on, where's your sense of economic benefit? Think of the jobs that will be created!
And it doesn't sadden me in the least: It's unbelievably great that we live in such a time where so much of our energy can be spent on entertaining ourselves, instead of fighting our neighbor, foraging or busting our backs for food, fighting off disease, etc.
I pretty good theory. Don't be an AC about it.
:)
Also a pretty good way to go about your life. It's not easy though.
I agree with you in the sense that we are a post-industrial economy.
The trouble is, for everywhere-but-USA, and USA 50 years ago... who would have driven the engines that push us forward?
Who would have built the cars? Can't have 17 year olds doing that all day long. Who would dig up the coal? Who would crank out the textiles?
Perhaps we'd still make it where we are today, and perhaps not. Perhaps we'd be stuck in a sort of industrial dark ages.
I think your example 4 is telling: The market already seems to have rebalanced, in the direction of providing drones for drone-like labor.
Hey, I'd like an intellectual renaissance as much as the next guy... well, maybe not. I kind of enjoy being a little higher on the intellectual food chain than average. Elitism, I guess, but I'm not perfect.
The funny part is, if "we" didn't crank out replaceable cogs, the people who've learned something different won't have jobs, and everyone would be complaining about unemployment levels.
The trick is, for our society to continue to function, we need a significant number of "drones" to do a lot of the work.
If everyone was as "free" as Bill G, you think we'd all be better off? I'm not so sure. Then again, I'm on the "free" side and so are you, so my perspective is probably skewed.
Hear hear.
Let me just agree with your assessment of the abhorrent lack of critical thinking skills in America. Well, humans in general, I guess. THAT's the biggest story I can think of...
"Check that. Look at the environmental protections and the employee protections of those countries. In most cases, the reason it is cheaper to send the work over seas is because they have fewer protections. Abusing your people is one way to achieve prosperity. But it is just a race to the bottom to see who can inflict the most abuse."
So I suppose in your mind that the people in such foreign nations are forced to work for the evil US company?
"Instead, why not require that any country that we outsource to have the SAME level of protections that we do?"
Because then the companies won't move to such countries because it'll be too expensive. The people living there will be stuck in their dirt farms (which is oh-so-much-better than a Nike factory), and everyone the world over will pay more for such products.
"Right..... and the last time we went to war with a country we were outsourcing to was......?"
Um, that's exactly the point. Because we're outsourcing lots to India, we have no interest in fighting with them (well, at least those of us in charge don't. Those of us who've lost their jobs might want to go beat up some Indians).
Because we're outsourcing lots to India, they want to keep our companies happy. Getting belligerent with America is not the way to do that.
So yeah, the grandparent is correct on that account, and you've agreed with him without realizing it, apparently.
$6000 = corruption?
Give me a break.
Yeah, but for a few thousand bucks you can attach it to the chain gun mounted on the front of your chopper...
I can see it now, the US comes up with great tech for gamers, and then can't sell it overseas because it wipes the floor with any international weapons tech. Kind of like the crypto restrictions, but tangible.
Then again, the average nation is so far behind it doesn't really matter.
Sheesh, just great, a third political party. Like we don't have enough waste of energy with the Republicrats and Demolicans both running and taking up airtime with their fund raising and attack ads (who restricts his choice to either one party or the other, but not both?)
Really, there are some times where... Ah hell, you get the point.
Let's see, just like 3rd parties, the developers who are working on E are working on it because they don't WANT to work on the existing stuff. There is certainly NOTHING forcing you to get anywhere near their goodness. You don't have to install anything of theirs. You can EASILY AVOID THE BLOAT.
My analogy at the top points to this: The efforts of the E guys are NOT wasted because they likely would NOT be working on Gnome/KDE if they weren't working on E, in the same way that those of us who vote for 3rd parties do so because we don't like the two "standards". It's not a zero sum game!
Just wanted to point out that you and the other poster were both quite insightful, thought-provoking and articulate. It's too rare around here, so thanks. :)
Please do yourself a huge favor and never use the words "time impacted" next to each other again. Or quit working at that big company you work for, it's rotting your brain! :)
Evidence, please.
I would expect that any true "miracle" cures would be subsidized by the government(s) of the corporations involved.
Obviously the producers need to be paid for their work. Governments can buy up whatever they want to distribute to their people.
Now, if you're talking about AIDS/Malaria/whatever medicines for African nations... someone's gotta fix the African governments first.
So in the same vein, if you vote for Kerry, you're supporting all the wacko Greenpeace, tree-huggin, anti-capitalist, anti-trade communists, whether or not you agree with them. :)
I'd guess it's the theory that one side is a little closer to what you believe than the other...
Alright, I understand what you're saying, but I don't want to look at it in such a boldly pessimistic way. :)
:)
To wit:
"What freedom could we as a people hope to win for ourselves that wouldn't be used by big corporations first to increase their profit margins?"
Profits are certainly not a bad thing, particularly since you're not prevented from getting some of your own. I will, however, agree that corporations buying those profits thru gov't influence is sickening and must be decried.
"If we win that freedom we as citizens may sit more comfortably in our chairs on our patios but BIG INDUSTRY will be actively looking at ways to use that freedom to suck more money from us at the cash register. We cannot fight that."
Sure we can. There is nothing forcing us to go to said cash register.
My view is that corporations are too powerful now: Their mission (make money) and success I'm not jealous of... just their blatant disregard for law.
As for voting: "We the people" absolutely CAN break the one-party stranglehold, if things get bad enough. Thing is, people are fooled into believing their getting something for nothing from our "beloved" leaders. We don't have a communist society, but we do have woefully inattentive voters.
Now, the trouble is, I agree with your last paragraph completely except for the conclusion that it's somehow called "Communism". There is certainly no collective ownership of everything, and CERTAINLY no "common good"...
I'd call it an oligarchy, as a derogatory term, not one of pride.
Mad Max.
Road Warrior.
(I'll pretend Thunderdome was never made, though)
Big government is here so the only solution is... bigger government? Que?
And I think the mental images of communism come more from, oh, let's say, every example of communism in the 20th century, rather than any mind-control conspiracies...
Good to see your slowing moving back down the mod chart... "Client side... was always one monumental flop" is pure myth. It's interesting that you seem to think "client side" means "in a browser window".
Run Eclipse sometime.
Conservatives are no more united than Liberals. The GOP is probably better at producing just enough bullshit to attract all their diverse groups, however.
Imagine, for a moment, a Republican coming in favor of abortion. The religious south would drop him like a hot plate, and just stay home. It's happened before and it'll happen again.
I'm a relatively conservative guy. Am I voting for Bush? Hell no, I'm voting Libertarian no matter how goofy the guy is this year.
I was skeptical as well, but then I followed a link or two and found a page they've put together for HTML authors. It's actually very easy to implement and you can do some pretty interesting things with it.
:)
XForms can essentially replace javascript as a validation tool. It can also load initial values from another document, something I find pretty interesting (because you let the client side do it, not your poor over-burdened server).
It's just options. You're certainly never going to be forced to use it.
By the way, how many developers really know asp/jsp/php/perl but don't know xml yet?