And thats why they should use the GPL- to make sure it *remains* free
If I write something and BSD license it and someone comes along, extends it, and relicenses it under a non-free license... My code is still free. I still have my code. It didn't go anywhere. It didn't disappear off computer. The only difference is I don't have the extensions that the second person made. So what? Some people really don't care what others do with their code. Hence, they use a BSD or MIT style license.
MainForm.cs(35,26): error CS0234: The type or namespace name `Windows' does not exist in the namespace `System'. Are you missing an assembly reference?
Also, C# 2.0 isn't complete, are you sure you shouldn't be using mcs over gmcs?
This will mean that in future, all native Windows applications will easily run on Linux, with Mono.
No it doesn't. There are still Windows classes that are additions to the.NET standard which are available for Windows and not for Mono. What about future classes tied directly to Vista and those features of it patented?
Actually, I'm quite comfortable admining FreeBSD and Gentoo via the CL just fine. Been using *BSD and Linux for many years now. I simply expect a certain level of documentation about the underpinnings of an OS and its configuration and quite frankly RH doc doesn't impress me compared to the FreeBSD and Gentoo doc.
Yes I can read shell scripts but again it's time wasted figuring out "What the heck is going on here?" instead of having something up and running.
Again, Gentoo's or the *BSD style of fully annotating and documenting config files makes life easier than search for variables within shell scripts to see what they do and how they should be setup.
Hmm... what's wrong with "don't install stuff you don't want to support?"
Ever try admining Red Hat purely from the command line before? I need Gnome installed because nothing in/etc/sysconfig/ is commented and sometimes you just need the RH GUI tools. The initscript docs are lacking in a number of cases cases, especially for the networking scripts. You have to find random tools or peal through the init scripts scripts to find out simple things like turning off ethernet autonegotiate and manually setting link speeds if you want to stick to the command line. That is bloat. What ever happened to "You don't need to run X11 on a server"?
Red Hat is by far the worst while Suse is moderately better. I give a lot of credit to Gentoo for remaining unbloated and sticking towards the Unix philosphy of KISS and good documentation instead of trying to be a Win2k clone with "point and click here doc".
OF COURSE Linux demands more updates, there's simply more software to patch!
And that's not a good thing. It means you spend more time patching Linux boxes than Windows boxes. I admin Linux (CentOS) machines at work and I keep an eye on the Windows ones. I spend more time reviewing and patching my machines than I believe the Windows admins have to. The shear bloat of modern Linux distros makes them a big hassle with fairly regular updates.
Re:part 2- not trolling, just a little frustrated
on
OpenBSD 3.8 Released
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
This barrier is in place I believe for a reason. If you won't (not can't since creating a boot floppy or CD is in the FAQ) get past that hurdle then they don't want you. OpenBSD is not the Linux community where they actively want you to join. You learn that quick and it can be refreshing at times.
"Also, I find patching and keeping the system up to date easier on FreeBSD than on OpenBSD."
There's been a lot of work done on the pkg_* tools to make updating easier. I'm still on a 3.6 box at home so I can't wait to see what's been introduced since then. The pkg_add man page for 3.8 says the -u switch will be a true update switch after 3.8. Portupgrade is a great tool to use on FreeBSD and I can't wait for similar functionality on OpenBSD.
Hey, someone who was in the boat I was in! I graduated college in 2002. I majored in Political Science because A) anyone at the time could get a job with computers if they knew something (and I did) and B) because I enjoyed the PoliSci work more than CompSci work. I've always wanted to be a sysadmin and we only had CompSci, no MIS major, so I just minored in CompSci. I thought at the time my 4 years working in IS on campus would make up for not majoring in CompSci, I was even the CompSci department's Unix admin my senior year.
Yeah, my plans didn't work out as I figured. Took me almost three years doing customer support which required nothing of what I knew about computers before I got a sysadmin job. The trick I found was meet the manager of the department I wanted to be in, get my foot in the door to sit down and talk with him, and talk about the open source work I was doing. The type of work I did wouldn't impress recruiting or HR people but it did impress him. It was a lot of work but worth it not to be doing my old job and doing something I enjoy.
"Good point as I learned from observing different people and listening to their political views. The more conservative people (They can still be democrats) tend to do better then their more liberal counterparts. The more conservative people (They can still be democrats) tend to do better then their more liberal counterparts. The conservative people tend to have the mindset of they themselves are responsible for their futures. The more liberal people feel that we should be have some sort help to make sure that they are on a level playing field."
Lazy SOBs are lazy SOBs. If you're blue then the rich are keeping you down. If you're red then the minorities are keeping you down. You're a lazy SOB first and your polititcs colors who you blame. By the way, I don't think Democrats are really very liberal at all and I've gotten everything in my job because I've worked damn hard.
True that. Most of my annoyances with CentOS stem from "WTF? I know exactly how to do this on a *BSD box." After I get past a difference I'm fairly content again. There are some things I still don't like (such as the Red Hat tools eating my damn config files) so I've stripped down new CentOS installs to barebones systems and just do configuration by hand or script.
But the people that are truly look at BSD vs. Linux as a holy war I find fall into this one category.
So why are you using those items of GPL'd code then???
You completely missed the point... It's because I don't give a damn about the trivial differences between the GPL and the BSDL. Hard concept. As far as licenses are concerend all I really care about from a user standpoint is that it's open and doesn't restrict my use of the software.
We're all on the same team -- only if we FOCUS our efforts into the OS with the best chance (Linux) can we defeat the DRM-infested, money-grabbing proprietary OSs like M$ Vista and Apple OS X.
Must start using the one true F/OSS operating system... Oh wait, screw that. I like my BSDs here. Reason #1 why I use FreeBSD over Linux, I just want a Unix-like OS without a revolution packaged with it. Talk about bloat.:)
Welcome to/., where if it can't be reduced to 1's and 0's it doesn't mean crap. Seriously, people get their panties in a bunch about spam instead of just using a fucking filter and getting a fucking life about it.
Slashdot Mirror
"What exactly is it that we're arguing about anyway?"
The idea that people shouldn't use the BSDL.
And thats why they should use the GPL- to make sure it *remains* free
If I write something and BSD license it and someone comes along, extends it, and relicenses it under a non-free license... My code is still free. I still have my code. It didn't go anywhere. It didn't disappear off computer. The only difference is I don't have the extensions that the second person made. So what? Some people really don't care what others do with their code. Hence, they use a BSD or MIT style license.
Lastly, BSD or MIT != Public Domain.
MainForm.cs(35,26): error CS0234: The type or namespace name `Windows' does not exist in the namespace `System'. Are you missing an assembly reference?
Also, C# 2.0 isn't complete, are you sure you shouldn't be using mcs over gmcs?
http://www.mono-project.com/CSharp_Compiler
This will mean that in future, all native Windows applications will easily run on Linux, with Mono.
.NET standard which are available for Windows and not for Mono. What about future classes tied directly to Vista and those features of it patented?
No it doesn't. There are still Windows classes that are additions to the
"I would suggest rethinking your update strategy. I support 21 Linux servers where I work, all my updates are automagic."
Do you review your updates automagically to? Seeing why the update is needed, checking if the update is a backpatch or a full version update, etc.?
Actually, I'm quite comfortable admining FreeBSD and Gentoo via the CL just fine. Been using *BSD and Linux for many years now. I simply expect a certain level of documentation about the underpinnings of an OS and its configuration and quite frankly RH doc doesn't impress me compared to the FreeBSD and Gentoo doc.
Yes I can read shell scripts but again it's time wasted figuring out "What the heck is going on here?" instead of having something up and running.
Again, Gentoo's or the *BSD style of fully annotating and documenting config files makes life easier than search for variables within shell scripts to see what they do and how they should be setup.
Hmm... what's wrong with "don't install stuff you don't want to support?"
/etc/sysconfig/ is commented and sometimes you just need the RH GUI tools. The initscript docs are lacking in a number of cases cases, especially for the networking scripts. You have to find random tools or peal through the init scripts scripts to find out simple things like turning off ethernet autonegotiate and manually setting link speeds if you want to stick to the command line. That is bloat. What ever happened to "You don't need to run X11 on a server"?
Ever try admining Red Hat purely from the command line before? I need Gnome installed because nothing in
Red Hat is by far the worst while Suse is moderately better. I give a lot of credit to Gentoo for remaining unbloated and sticking towards the Unix philosphy of KISS and good documentation instead of trying to be a Win2k clone with "point and click here doc".
OF COURSE Linux demands more updates, there's simply more software to patch!
And that's not a good thing. It means you spend more time patching Linux boxes than Windows boxes. I admin Linux (CentOS) machines at work and I keep an eye on the Windows ones. I spend more time reviewing and patching my machines than I believe the Windows admins have to. The shear bloat of modern Linux distros makes them a big hassle with fairly regular updates.
This barrier is in place I believe for a reason. If you won't (not can't since creating a boot floppy or CD is in the FAQ) get past that hurdle then they don't want you. OpenBSD is not the Linux community where they actively want you to join. You learn that quick and it can be refreshing at times.
"Also, I find patching and keeping the system up to date easier on FreeBSD than on OpenBSD."
There's been a lot of work done on the pkg_* tools to make updating easier. I'm still on a 3.6 box at home so I can't wait to see what's been introduced since then. The pkg_add man page for 3.8 says the -u switch will be a true update switch after 3.8. Portupgrade is a great tool to use on FreeBSD and I can't wait for similar functionality on OpenBSD.
"Otherwise, this would have been chucked immediately by some supervisor wondering why it's taking a few days to just install the software."
It doesn't take days to run pkg_add. I've always found OpenBSD to be one of the easiest *nixes to install.
Hey, someone who was in the boat I was in! I graduated college in 2002. I majored in Political Science because A) anyone at the time could get a job with computers if they knew something (and I did) and B) because I enjoyed the PoliSci work more than CompSci work. I've always wanted to be a sysadmin and we only had CompSci, no MIS major, so I just minored in CompSci. I thought at the time my 4 years working in IS on campus would make up for not majoring in CompSci, I was even the CompSci department's Unix admin my senior year.
Yeah, my plans didn't work out as I figured. Took me almost three years doing customer support which required nothing of what I knew about computers before I got a sysadmin job. The trick I found was meet the manager of the department I wanted to be in, get my foot in the door to sit down and talk with him, and talk about the open source work I was doing. The type of work I did wouldn't impress recruiting or HR people but it did impress him. It was a lot of work but worth it not to be doing my old job and doing something I enjoy.
"Good point as I learned from observing different people and listening to their political views. The more conservative people (They can still be democrats) tend to do better then their more liberal counterparts. The more conservative people (They can still be democrats) tend to do better then their more liberal counterparts. The conservative people tend to have the mindset of they themselves are responsible for their futures. The more liberal people feel that we should be have some sort help to make sure that they are on a level playing field."
Lazy SOBs are lazy SOBs. If you're blue then the rich are keeping you down. If you're red then the minorities are keeping you down. You're a lazy SOB first and your polititcs colors who you blame. By the way, I don't think Democrats are really very liberal at all and I've gotten everything in my job because I've worked damn hard.
Those of us who weren't already aware of the new song for the past two weeks?
I mean, I never see a computer/electronics store offering a PC with Linux. All they offer is Windows!
Mono has multiple licenses, depending on what part of the framework you are talking about.
http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
Ummmm, did you look at the link under my nick?
True that. Most of my annoyances with CentOS stem from "WTF? I know exactly how to do this on a *BSD box." After I get past a difference I'm fairly content again. There are some things I still don't like (such as the Red Hat tools eating my damn config files) so I've stripped down new CentOS installs to barebones systems and just do configuration by hand or script.
But the people that are truly look at BSD vs. Linux as a holy war I find fall into this one category.
1) complete and total nerds
Wasn't FreeBSD the only other operating system Microsoft ported C# to?
No the plans are not still alive because no one really cared. Mono on the other hand is pretty well supported.they planned to are those plans still alive?
Didn't Hotmail run for a LONG time on FreeBSD?
Yes hotmail before Microsoft was heavilly FreeBSD + Qmail. I'd expect Microft to use Win2k3 over any OS as would most normal ppl.they no longer do. if FreeBSD is so great, why don't they still use it?
"it's the same problem as faced by the BSDs - driver support and vendor backup."
Right, because no one supports Solaris...
So why are you using those items of GPL'd code then???
You completely missed the point... It's because I don't give a damn about the trivial differences between the GPL and the BSDL. Hard concept. As far as licenses are concerend all I really care about from a user standpoint is that it's open and doesn't restrict my use of the software.
Why did my parent comment get modded funny? It's true and one of the common reasons I find among other *BSD users?
We're all on the same team -- only if we FOCUS our efforts into the OS with the best chance (Linux) can we defeat the DRM-infested, money-grabbing proprietary OSs like M$ Vista and Apple OS X.
:)
Must start using the one true F/OSS operating system... Oh wait, screw that. I like my BSDs here. Reason #1 why I use FreeBSD over Linux, I just want a Unix-like OS without a revolution packaged with it. Talk about bloat.
Welcome to /., where if it can't be reduced to 1's and 0's it doesn't mean crap. Seriously, people get their panties in a bunch about spam instead of just using a fucking filter and getting a fucking life about it.