Unix grew up as a reaction against the security in Multics, which was a genuinely secure OS. UNIX has never had good security though year by year it gets better. Windows had a very good capability security model they just didn't use very much because of application compatibility problems.
The difference is in the applications culture not the origination.
I'd always heard that Multics was more than could be easily crammed on the (PDP-7), that Unix's authors were supplied with.
I think there's basically 2 types of Cinci-style chili. The home-made recipe, described above, and the commercial chil parlour recipe, which is more like "real" red chili. Skyline actually packages (frozen) and sells their chili in supermarkets in Florida. It's "real" chili, and yes, cloves are definitely part of it. You have to supply your own spaghetti.
When I said "pepper" in Spam, I meant black pepper, BTW. Capsicums are a little too exotic for them.
I haven't been to King's Island since it was Coney (and moved). But I've been to the "bug house" at the zoo!
> When my grandmother made chili and dumped > spaghetti in it, we thought she was trying to poison us!
I don't know about putting spaghetti in it (that doesn't sound _bad_, but it does sound rather _odd_), but my mom makes "chili" that does not have any seasoning in it other than salt and maybe a half teaspoon of onion powder. It's basically a hamburger broth soup with kidney beans and diced tomato. Why is it called "chili"? Well, I don't know. I guess the name was available, because nobody in her circle of acquaintance has any experience with the genuine article.
That's grandmom's recipe. She took that exact same formula, then dumped spaghetti in it. That's Cincinnati style.
I've heard about "midwest spices". They called it "Spam" because it was Ham with Spices. Salt and pepper!
Re:You can't build a library with an e-reader
on
Have eBooks Peaked?
·
· Score: 1
Forgoing the DRM on music in Itunes did not kill the music industry, but that's what all the book publishers act like.
Fortunately, not all publishers. Baen, TOR, and O'Reilly opted out of the DRM racket. Some of the independents do.
Please please please could someone tell me just what you believe is being done with this information? Sure, I can accept the premise that the governemnt is lying about what they can do, what they are doing, and why. But I'm trying and failing to think of something bad being done with it that would still be secret.
What do my fellow Slashdotters think is happening with the data gathered by these surveillance programs? Who do you think is being harmed, and how?
Hypocrisy and irony are concepts that high level officials either have a congenital inability to understand, or have it surgically removed. No person cognizant of those concepts could possibly have the self-restraint or acting ability to make such pronouncements without bursting out laughing.
That's one of the things that disturbs me about people in those positions. No sense of humor.
Ask Steve Ballmer. That was literally what he said when the anti-trust people told Microsoft that they had to unbundle IE from Windows and put other browsers on an equal footing. He said they couldn't - "Internet Explorer is an integral part of Microsoft Windows".
I've never dug into the innards of the situation enough to be able to technically affirm this, but I have noted that parts of IE do (or did once) seem to be invoked by Firefox.
"Windows kernel" is not as cleanly defined as it is in some OS's. Normally. kernel.dll, gdi.dll, and user.dll would not all be "kernel", but Windows isn't likely to do much with only kernel.dll (exe).
I'm pretty sure that only works when you make withdrawals from the accounts of others. I really hope it doesn't come to that in my lifetime.
It already has, figuratively. Snowden is a refugee from his own country. Manning is counted by many as another who has spilled metaphorical blood doing his perceived patriotic duty. If we don't take down a few figurative tyrants (FISA &Co.), there will likely be more blood spilled, possibly including literal blood until either the Tree of Liberty can grow freely again or we give up and admit that we're no longer either Free or Brave.
> The same place you get your zucchini from, most likely. > Argentina or someplace like that. It's Summer down there.
Have you ever _been_ to the Midwest?
I live in Ohio (which is more than five times as populous as Iowa), and I've never seen zucchini in the winter time, for sale or otherwise.
Maybe that explains the "chili". When my grandmother made chili and dumped spaghetti in it, we thought she was trying to poison us!
Evidently Kroger isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we don't get summer squashes year-round here, they're not absent long enough to notice. Likewise fresh strawberries. Then again, the strawberry season starts in South Florida, works its way up to about New Jersey, California takes over somewhere in there, and I think South America rounds it out until it all begins anew.
I don't know any place that sells bean leaves. But given enough bedbugs, I have no doubt that that would change.
I once tried to eat a bay leaf. You're better off eating wood chips and the flavor of the actual leaf is a bit too intense. So I do try and scoop them out before serving. But I have a small bay laurel in a pot, so I hope to get them fresh soon.
If you want a fresh herb that apparently grows virtually anywhere in North America, try epazote. That is, if your idea of spices extends to stuff that tastes like kerosene. It's useful in Mexican cookery, though.
You don't think Dr. Who as a female would make for some interesting stories? Are you dead inside? Political correctness is the last reason in the world why we'd want a female Doctor. We'd want a female Doctor because it would be interesting. Honestly, male Dr. Who has been done to death!
The Doctor has a daughter. Actually, I'd be more interested in seeing what she could do.
Windows '9x grew out of DOS. Windows 7 grew out NT, which was most definitely designed with security in mind.
I would argue that "pure" NT is more secure than pre-selinux Linux or Unix. Selinux is something whose true security I have never been able to calculate. unlike NT or IBM's (mainframe) RACF, the rules and support mechanisms are hard to fathom. So hard, in fact, that a lot of people give up, switch it off, and thus defeat its purpose.
However, nothing runs "pure" NT. NT was forced to accept the Windows Gang of 3 core DLLs inherited from the DOS-based Windows predecessors, and they required wedging the security door open in order to remain backwards compatibility. Which is basically the same sort of problem as the Selinux complexity issue except that if you turn off Selinux, it's your own fault, not a core OS design decision.
You have enumerated and expanded on those precise problems and I can't state it any better. The only thing I can can is Who the $%@!! thought that a Web Browser needed to be (squeaky Steve Ballmer voice quote) "An Integral Part of Windows" as stated in the anti-trust trial. What actual advantage did it give? No other OS I know of puts the web browser code into the OS itself and I've yet to see any performance or capability advantages that Windows has over those other systems in that realm. Security holes, yes. Actual advantages, no.
The main reason why Linux is more secure is history. Linux is descended from Unix, and Unix spent its formative years in University labs where students would routinely prank each other. Of necessity, Unix grew up with security being an issue almost from Day 1.
That's a bit revisionist. Early unix was horribly insecure at multi-user stuff. It took a long while before security became something important in design.
Easiest example to name is the storage of passwords in/etc/passwd. Since the file was readable by everyone, it was easy to grab the hashes and perform offline attacks. I'm not even sure that early password hashes were salted in unix, which meant that if you could crack one account you could easily see that your password would match accounts X, Y and Z.
Not revisionist. I never said that Unix was designed totally secure from Day 1, just that it spent its formative years in unfriendly environments. Even before users started attacking each other, it had a need to keep things isolated from each other, however, just to maintain separate user/process identities. Windows/DOS started out with a single identity, so a lot of those isolation mechanisms were things that had to be added on after certain unfortunate fundamental mechanisms had become an inextricable part of the core OS architecture.
Indeed. IBM's reputation is pretty well established. They are slow, tedious and yet effective. They are a glacier in IT. But I see it everywhere -- people making decisions in an IT project that have know knowledge of what it takes to make things happen. The illusion that "it's all so easy" has really gotten buried too deep in someone's head somewhere.
The magic phrase is "All You Have To Do Is..."
Those six words have destroyed more IT projects than anyone can count.
Thanks. That sounds like what is called "superannuation" in other places. From the posts above I got the impression they were writing about governments watching transactions to find criminals doing money laundering, which is in the news a bit with more co-operation from the Swiss and other bank havens.
Other places being "not Murica", by chance?
I did say an IRA, not the IRA. How many of them have you got? Besides, in the US, it's the IRS you have to worry about.
The implication was that we were discussing US taxes. Where if you don't know what an IRA is, you're not doing a very good job of managing your money either for the present or the future. An IRA is a way of deferring taxes. Probably the most commonly-used of them all.
Just sending a bunch of keywords in email isn't enough - emacs has had a spook function since the 80s so they are kind of used to that stuff by now./ You'll have to act like a crazy-pants terrorist.
To make it really work we need to bring the eternal september to the islamic extremist websites. Everybody go post on those arabic jihadi websites. Uh, does anyone know of any arabic jihadi websites? Or how to read and write arabic?
Collect enough metadata, and everyone starts looking like a crazy-pants terrorist.
Linux might never see the sheer volume of malware that exists for Windows because it's "late in the game" and because simply put both the developers and the users have learnt quite a bit over the years making it harder for viruses etc to propagate.
Thank you for not saying "virii". You've actually used the correct plural.
The main reason why Linux is more secure is history. Linux is descended from Unix, and Unix spent its formative years in University labs where students would routinely prank each other. Of necessity, Unix grew up with security being an issue almost from Day 1.
In contrast, Windows grew out of DOS. Unlike Unix, where people were sharing a computer and had to play nice together, DOS was an environment where you owned everything, lock, stock and barrel. The thrust of the design was on usability, not on security. As a result, several fundamental system components were designed insecure and it was difficult-to-impossible to retrofit security on them.
Yes, that was my entire fucking point. They don't import the damn leaves and sell them here, because nobody buys them.
Which makes the whole "we already have a solution, just use bean leaves" argument pretty fucking stupid since there is no realistic way to acqure them in quantity in any sort of reasonable time frame.
Think about it.
It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't find Peruvian quinoa in the supermarket either. But then someone started touting the glories of quinoa, people started asking about it, and lo! Other people saw an opportunity. And now we're up to our armpits in quinoa.
It's not like store inventories were created 6000 years ago and have never evolved.
âoeGovernment's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.â -- Ronald Reagan
All of this depends on the government's ability to find the bitcoins, and then provide some kind of evidence that it was exchanged for something. If I transfer funds from my checking to savings accounts, that isn't taxed because no goods or services were exchanged.
The government can try to regulate it, but it'll be as successful as the IRS demanding people pay taxes on their purchases of marijuana. Now yes, they'll pass a law anyway, and yes they'll spend an exorbinant amount of money to prove they can enforce it and then make an example out of a few people in highly-publicized cases, but they won't change things substantially.
This will rapidly evolve into another "war on _________", with innocent people being caught in dragnets while the guilty ones rapidly develop the skills to evade it. It's like big banks -- they were too big to fail, and so they were also too big to jail. The government doesn't take down large organizations, criminal or legal... it goes after the people who are isolated. It goes after the low hanging fruit... and it hopes that scares enough people off to keep them in line.
But business will go on as well as ever... already, people using the Silk Road website within Tor have started switching over to virtual machines that do not store any persistent state information... in the next few weeks, I expect many, if not most, will be. Criminals adapt in a matter of hours or days... law enforcement adapts in a matter of months or years. It's not hard to see who has the upper hand here.
Don't underestimate the power of the government.
When you transfer money from checking to savings and back, they don't care. At the moment, anyway.
But when you transfer money from either of the above into or out of an IRA, it's totally different. And you will very swiftly discover that yes, the goddam gubmint keeps a very close eye on how you move your money around, even though it may technically may have no more "changed hands" than a checking/savings transfer.
Goods and services aren't really what gets taxed, any way. It's the value (money, barter, or whatever) that the tax is assessed on. So don't think that lack of "goods or services" gets you off the hook.
Also, don't forget the lesson of Al Capone. They couldn't prove where he got his money (which is, to say, crime). But he patently had money and he hadn't diverted enough of it to the tax man. So they nailed him on income tax evasion instead of on his real crimes. Because they could prove taxes weren't paid.
The first mistake is confusing management with leadership.
And the second is like unto the first: confusing management skills with necessary talent.
Einstein was not famous for his skills as a leader, and in fact, when offered a leadership position (first president of Israel), he turned it down.
He "led" by virtue of being a respected voice in the scientific community, but that's not the same thing as having the ability to get others to do the work for you.
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Unix grew up as a reaction against the security in Multics, which was a genuinely secure OS. UNIX has never had good security though year by year it gets better. Windows had a very good capability security model they just didn't use very much because of application compatibility problems.
The difference is in the applications culture not the origination.
I'd always heard that Multics was more than could be easily crammed on the (PDP-7), that Unix's authors were supplied with.
I think there's basically 2 types of Cinci-style chili. The home-made recipe, described above, and the commercial chil parlour recipe, which is more like "real" red chili. Skyline actually packages (frozen) and sells their chili in supermarkets in Florida. It's "real" chili, and yes, cloves are definitely part of it. You have to supply your own spaghetti.
When I said "pepper" in Spam, I meant black pepper, BTW. Capsicums are a little too exotic for them.
I haven't been to King's Island since it was Coney (and moved). But I've been to the "bug house" at the zoo!
> When my grandmother made chili and dumped
> spaghetti in it, we thought she was trying to poison us!
I don't know about putting spaghetti in it (that doesn't sound _bad_, but it does sound rather _odd_), but my mom makes "chili" that does not have any seasoning in it other than salt and maybe a half teaspoon of onion powder. It's basically a hamburger broth soup with kidney beans and diced tomato. Why is it called "chili"? Well, I don't know. I guess the name was available, because nobody in her circle of acquaintance has any experience with the genuine article.
That's grandmom's recipe. She took that exact same formula, then dumped spaghetti in it. That's Cincinnati style.
I've heard about "midwest spices". They called it "Spam" because it was Ham with Spices. Salt and pepper!
Forgoing the DRM on music in Itunes did not kill the music industry, but that's what all the book publishers act like.
Fortunately, not all publishers. Baen, TOR, and O'Reilly opted out of the DRM racket. Some of the independents do.
Please please please could someone tell me just what you believe is being done with this information?
Sure, I can accept the premise that the governemnt is lying about what they can do, what they are doing, and why.
But I'm trying and failing to think of something bad being done with it that would still be secret.
What do my fellow Slashdotters think is happening with the data gathered by these surveillance programs?
Who do you think is being harmed, and how?
I'm sorry. That information is classified.
Hypocrisy and irony are concepts that high level officials either have a congenital inability to understand, or have it surgically removed. No person cognizant of those concepts could possibly have the self-restraint or acting ability to make such pronouncements without bursting out laughing.
That's one of the things that disturbs me about people in those positions. No sense of humor.
That's called denial an one should have their mental health evaluated.
If you're looking for mental health in government, you're going to have a bad time.
Define "integral part of the OS".
It doesn't live in the kernel.
Ask Steve Ballmer. That was literally what he said when the anti-trust people told Microsoft that they had to unbundle IE from Windows and put other browsers on an equal footing. He said they couldn't - "Internet Explorer is an integral part of Microsoft Windows".
I've never dug into the innards of the situation enough to be able to technically affirm this, but I have noted that parts of IE do (or did once) seem to be invoked by Firefox.
"Windows kernel" is not as cleanly defined as it is in some OS's. Normally. kernel.dll, gdi.dll, and user.dll would not all be "kernel", but Windows isn't likely to do much with only kernel.dll (exe).
I mean really, these people didn't sign up to join the priesthood. They're soldiers.
Why is having sex a problem?
What, the army of a nation that thinks movies full of violence, gore, and flying body parts is OK, but not if the body parts are procreative?
I'm more surprised by the fact that having sex is illegal? And the military police has jurisdiction over this crime? wtf
I hear it's considered "Unauthorized Use of US Government Property".
I'm pretty sure that only works when you make withdrawals from the accounts of others. I really hope it doesn't come to that in my lifetime.
It already has, figuratively. Snowden is a refugee from his own country. Manning is counted by many as another who has spilled metaphorical blood doing his perceived patriotic duty. If we don't take down a few figurative tyrants (FISA &Co.), there will likely be more blood spilled, possibly including literal blood until either the Tree of Liberty can grow freely again or we give up and admit that we're no longer either Free or Brave.
> The same place you get your zucchini from, most likely.
> Argentina or someplace like that. It's Summer down there.
Have you ever _been_ to the Midwest?
I live in Ohio (which is more than five times as populous as Iowa), and I've never seen zucchini in the winter time, for sale or otherwise.
Maybe that explains the "chili". When my grandmother made chili and dumped spaghetti in it, we thought she was trying to poison us!
Evidently Kroger isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we don't get summer squashes year-round here, they're not absent long enough to notice. Likewise fresh strawberries. Then again, the strawberry season starts in South Florida, works its way up to about New Jersey, California takes over somewhere in there, and I think South America rounds it out until it all begins anew.
I don't know any place that sells bean leaves. But given enough bedbugs, I have no doubt that that would change.
I once tried to eat a bay leaf. You're better off eating wood chips and the flavor of the actual leaf is a bit too intense. So I do try and scoop them out before serving. But I have a small bay laurel in a pot, so I hope to get them fresh soon.
If you want a fresh herb that apparently grows virtually anywhere in North America, try epazote. That is, if your idea of spices extends to stuff that tastes like kerosene. It's useful in Mexican cookery, though.
You don't think Dr. Who as a female would make for some interesting stories? Are you dead inside? Political correctness is the last reason in the world why we'd want a female Doctor. We'd want a female Doctor because it would be interesting. Honestly, male Dr. Who has been done to death!
The Doctor has a daughter. Actually, I'd be more interested in seeing what she could do.
And if I say that the wheelchair is actually a self-powered cold-fusion wheelchair?
Sorry, Davros already used that one.
What are you talking about?
Windows '9x grew out of DOS. Windows 7 grew out NT, which was most definitely designed with security in mind.
I would argue that "pure" NT is more secure than pre-selinux Linux or Unix. Selinux is something whose true security I have never been able to calculate. unlike NT or IBM's (mainframe) RACF, the rules and support mechanisms are hard to fathom. So hard, in fact, that a lot of people give up, switch it off, and thus defeat its purpose.
However, nothing runs "pure" NT. NT was forced to accept the Windows Gang of 3 core DLLs inherited from the DOS-based Windows predecessors, and they required wedging the security door open in order to remain backwards compatibility. Which is basically the same sort of problem as the Selinux complexity issue except that if you turn off Selinux, it's your own fault, not a core OS design decision.
You have enumerated and expanded on those precise problems and I can't state it any better. The only thing I can can is Who the $%@!! thought that a Web Browser needed to be (squeaky Steve Ballmer voice quote) "An Integral Part of Windows" as stated in the anti-trust trial. What actual advantage did it give? No other OS I know of puts the web browser code into the OS itself and I've yet to see any performance or capability advantages that Windows has over those other systems in that realm. Security holes, yes. Actual advantages, no.
The main reason why Linux is more secure is history. Linux is descended from Unix, and Unix spent its formative years in University labs where students would routinely prank each other. Of necessity, Unix grew up with security being an issue almost from Day 1.
That's a bit revisionist. Early unix was horribly insecure at multi-user stuff. It took a long while before security became something important in design.
Easiest example to name is the storage of passwords in /etc/passwd. Since the file was readable by everyone, it was easy to grab the hashes and perform offline attacks. I'm not even sure that early password hashes were salted in unix, which meant that if you could crack one account you could easily see that your password would match accounts X, Y and Z.
Not revisionist. I never said that Unix was designed totally secure from Day 1, just that it spent its formative years in unfriendly environments. Even before users started attacking each other, it had a need to keep things isolated from each other, however, just to maintain separate user/process identities. Windows/DOS started out with a single identity, so a lot of those isolation mechanisms were things that had to be added on after certain unfortunate fundamental mechanisms had become an inextricable part of the core OS architecture.
And the man-month. The mythical man-month. Let's not forget the man-month. Have I mentioned the man-month yet? :)
Ahem. PERSON-month. Can't offend the PC crowd, now.
"person" months are computed in units of AYHTDI. So the two are related.
I am Mordac, Preventer of Information Services.
Indeed. IBM's reputation is pretty well established. They are slow, tedious and yet effective. They are a glacier in IT. But I see it everywhere -- people making decisions in an IT project that have know knowledge of what it takes to make things happen. The illusion that "it's all so easy" has really gotten buried too deep in someone's head somewhere.
The magic phrase is "All You Have To Do Is..."
Those six words have destroyed more IT projects than anyone can count.
Thanks. That sounds like what is called "superannuation" in other places.
From the posts above I got the impression they were writing about governments watching transactions to find criminals doing money laundering, which is in the news a bit with more co-operation from the Swiss and other bank havens.
Other places being "not Murica", by chance?
I did say an IRA, not the IRA. How many of them have you got? Besides, in the US, it's the IRS you have to worry about.
The implication was that we were discussing US taxes. Where if you don't know what an IRA is, you're not doing a very good job of managing your money either for the present or the future. An IRA is a way of deferring taxes. Probably the most commonly-used of them all.
Just sending a bunch of keywords in email isn't enough - emacs has had a spook function since the 80s so they are kind of used to that stuff by now./ You'll have to act like a crazy-pants terrorist.
To make it really work we need to bring the eternal september to the islamic extremist websites. Everybody go post on those arabic jihadi websites. Uh, does anyone know of any arabic jihadi websites? Or how to read and write arabic?
Collect enough metadata, and everyone starts looking like a crazy-pants terrorist.
Linux might never see the sheer volume of malware that exists for Windows because it's "late in the game" and because simply put both the developers and the users have learnt quite a bit over the years making it harder for viruses etc to propagate.
Thank you for not saying "virii". You've actually used the correct plural.
The main reason why Linux is more secure is history. Linux is descended from Unix, and Unix spent its formative years in University labs where students would routinely prank each other. Of necessity, Unix grew up with security being an issue almost from Day 1.
In contrast, Windows grew out of DOS. Unlike Unix, where people were sharing a computer and had to play nice together, DOS was an environment where you owned everything, lock, stock and barrel. The thrust of the design was on usability, not on security. As a result, several fundamental system components were designed insecure and it was difficult-to-impossible to retrofit security on them.
Yes, that was my entire fucking point. They don't import the damn leaves and sell them here, because nobody buys them.
Which makes the whole "we already have a solution, just use bean leaves" argument pretty fucking stupid since there is no realistic way to acqure them in quantity in any sort of reasonable time frame.
Think about it.
It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't find Peruvian quinoa in the supermarket either. But then someone started touting the glories of quinoa, people started asking about it, and lo! Other people saw an opportunity. And now we're up to our armpits in quinoa.
It's not like store inventories were created 6000 years ago and have never evolved.
âoeGovernment's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.â -- Ronald Reagan
All of this depends on the government's ability to find the bitcoins, and then provide some kind of evidence that it was exchanged for something. If I transfer funds from my checking to savings accounts, that isn't taxed because no goods or services were exchanged.
The government can try to regulate it, but it'll be as successful as the IRS demanding people pay taxes on their purchases of marijuana. Now yes, they'll pass a law anyway, and yes they'll spend an exorbinant amount of money to prove they can enforce it and then make an example out of a few people in highly-publicized cases, but they won't change things substantially.
This will rapidly evolve into another "war on _________", with innocent people being caught in dragnets while the guilty ones rapidly develop the skills to evade it. It's like big banks -- they were too big to fail, and so they were also too big to jail. The government doesn't take down large organizations, criminal or legal... it goes after the people who are isolated. It goes after the low hanging fruit... and it hopes that scares enough people off to keep them in line.
But business will go on as well as ever... already, people using the Silk Road website within Tor have started switching over to virtual machines that do not store any persistent state information... in the next few weeks, I expect many, if not most, will be. Criminals adapt in a matter of hours or days... law enforcement adapts in a matter of months or years. It's not hard to see who has the upper hand here.
Don't underestimate the power of the government.
When you transfer money from checking to savings and back, they don't care. At the moment, anyway.
But when you transfer money from either of the above into or out of an IRA, it's totally different. And you will very swiftly discover that yes, the goddam gubmint keeps a very close eye on how you move your money around, even though it may technically may have no more "changed hands" than a checking/savings transfer.
Goods and services aren't really what gets taxed, any way. It's the value (money, barter, or whatever) that the tax is assessed on. So don't think that lack of "goods or services" gets you off the hook.
Also, don't forget the lesson of Al Capone. They couldn't prove where he got his money (which is, to say, crime). But he patently had money and he hadn't diverted enough of it to the tax man. So they nailed him on income tax evasion instead of on his real crimes. Because they could prove taxes weren't paid.
The first mistake is confusing management with leadership.
And the second is like unto the first: confusing management skills with necessary talent.
Einstein was not famous for his skills as a leader, and in fact, when offered a leadership position (first president of Israel), he turned it down.
He "led" by virtue of being a respected voice in the scientific community, but that's not the same thing as having the ability to get others to do the work for you.